The Harder You Roll, The Slower You Progress
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- Опубликовано: 23 окт 2023
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VIDEO DESCRIPTION
In this video, Rick Ellis discusses the benefits of scaling the intensity when rolling in order to acquire skill more efficiently.
I think this is 100% correct. I used to be a guy who battled for every inch and if you took that inch you earned it. Then mid purple belt I had a bad back injury, not bjj related, but required surgery. When I came back to training I only rolled light. Even against the guys going 110%. What I discovered was I had more fun. First, because I wasn’t so caught up in winning every second. But, more importantly my skill drastically improved, because I was allowing positions that I never would of allowed previously. Now, as a middle aged brown belt I almost always roll in a way I like to think of as a hard flow roll. I’m safer from injury, I learn more, and my partner gets better too.
51 yo white belt Last night my coach had this talk with me.... thank you for the reinforcement ...
I agree with this 100%. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Roll with a good partner. Talk to each other and take time to replay scenarios that you got stuck. Then mix in the harder sessions to see what works and what doesn’t.
I've found there's a couple of Purple belts I roll with who really help me in this regard, they can easily crush me and I know there's no point me trying to beat them with strength, so I get to actually work on things and learn when I get tapped (which is nearly always LOL) *I do also roll with fellow white belts, brand newbies and blues too
Absolutely, I get it! I'm a purple belt and an instructor too. In my classes, I try to keep things exciting by zeroing in on particular techniques and drills, and sometimes we skip the submissions. It's all about having a blast in class and letting the students practice the technique of the day in a unique way. And guess what? The students love it and give me great feedback on this approach!
I love positional sparring that resets at the pass, escape, or sweep. My favorite sparring.
As an Atos guy, we focus on one technique, for a whole week, regardless of rank.
We do lots of drilling and specific training on said technique, with resistence increasing through time.
Going full blast sparring happens mostly in a planned way, when the competition is getting closer :)
So the process is the same even at the "top competition" schools.
My Prof trained at atos, mad respect :) I train under Michael Liera Jr.
@@jedsanford7879 awesome!
Amazing talk. I'm just over a month in and have realized a lot of this for myself it's frustrating when people just want to smash and don't see the merit at slower rolls. For the record I'm a big strong guy and can muscle through a lot, but want to train BJJ skill first!
Thank you for this video Rick. I’m a 54 yr old white belt 2 months in and had my first true slow roll with a blue belt last week. He played catch and release - and it really helped me see the techniques applied and he would stop to show me an opportunity to better defend or take an offensive position. But he did this on his own - our coaches let the students determine how they roll so I now ask each partner how we’d like to approach. Also starting rolls in drill positions is so helpful to me but not all coaches use that approach.
So, I am 44, sore, and sub-15 classes attended so far. Got fatty in the two years since I retired from the USCG. Figured this Jiu-Jitsu thing would be fun. And I am loving it. I'm an idiot for not getting into it two decades ago when I was young and indestructible. But I am loving it. I have made it a habit now to roll with someone at least once after class is over. No Excuses. And just last week, the guy I rolled with, high Blue Belt, suggested we roll at 50%. I learned so much about how to "think" during a roll. I would get him into something, with resistance but, quasi-compliant. He taps, I release then we move on to where I am the stubborn mule for a bit before I easily tap. I absolutely agree with your sentiment that Softer Rolls = Better Skills. Awesome Hot Take!
100 % agree !!! most schools that go hard every roll and just excluding the people who need jiu jitsu the most (the young , old , weak, females, shy people who lack confidence, etc. etc. ) .not to mention it increases injuries greatly !!!! pair your hard core competitors together for competition training if you want. Most of us have nothing to prove to feed an ego. Most of us just want to learn, roll, and have fun with our jiu jitsu friends. Gracie academy don't force you to roll until your ready, which makes a more positive learning environment.
I totally agree being a 40+ year old purple belt, hard rolling everytime made me feel like I got hit by a train the following morning. My game totally changed when I got my purple belt , I'm not rolling to the death like I used to when I was a blue belt. Slowing down the roll and allowing my training partner to work allowed me to roll longer and enjoy the roll while focusing on techniques while rolling. I also set a goal for the day while rolling for example, back take set up for the bow and arrow choke. I would just continue to find ways to the back and that submission until the clock runs out. I feel sometimes we just roll with no goal in mind just get a tap by any means. Now when I roll with the young students I set a goal to preserve my energy reguardless of how spazzy the younger person gets during the roll. Your old man videos helped this middle aged hobbiest alot thanks.
Great stuff Rick. At 41 I decided to start my journey. That being said. I realized a lot about my body and age. Your videos and philosophy has greatly encouraged and renewed my love for this art and game. When I get frustrated I always watch your new content or older stuff and it reminds me what to do to keep my forward momentum. So in as few words as possible. Thank you!
Yup. Learned this the hard way.
I was a real smasher (former rugby prop) until my coach sent some big purple belts my way during nogi. After that the epiphany of "there's a ton of technique to this" set in. 285lbs makes me a real blue belt magnet. I try to hit the gym for an hour to two before classes with real rolls just to have the fatigue where my escape isn't going to be bridge and bench press someone. Just the thoughts of an abstract thinking white belt.
Thoroughly enjoy your content
Support your local hooker... packie for life..... I'm lucky enough to see the finals of the world cup this sat.... have a good one brother
Man, I needed this bad. I had already started forming something close to this in my mind, but this was the hammer I needed. I'm new to bjj, but I have a lot of martial arts experience. Even though I'm older and heavier than most in the class, I have been crushing everyone but the instructor. My head is in the wrong place and I really needed this video. It's not just about me. Thank you so much for this, and thank you for humbling me.
6 weeks in and loving it (im in pain and very tired but totally addicted)
I realised after my first week that I couldn't go hard, it was too exhausting and everyone just waits and then crushed me anyway. Last night a newer player rolled with me and dived in and I just lay there waiting and slow swept him and took mount and slowly worked to isolate his arms etc. Basic stuff but the difference in just slowing myself down was striking. I'm still a baby to BJJ but things are beginning to fall into place, good video man
This is a very practical video. As an old white belt with gray hair, I always start each roll with a request to my partner to keep it light. I like it light for the skill acquisition reasons you outlined, but also to avoid gassing out too soon. If you gas out, you can't roll. If you can't roll, you can't learn.
Thanks for putting qualified words on. There is a kind of taboo about "training downwards" so it is liberating that you pinpoint the subject. As a relatively new purple belt, that path has lured me in and I'm really happy to learn that both I and my opponents benefit a lot from it.
Thank you !!! Needed this today!!!
New 55yo Blue Belt. This makes so much sense. Really enjoy your videos. Hope to meet up sometime as I am in SoCal too.
I've been leaning in this direction but I wasn't certain it was the right approach. Thanks for giving the assurance I was on the right path!
Couldn't agree more thank you so much professor OSS!🙏
Wow...I love this.Ive always enjoyed Rick's input.Thank you sir
Thanks for this. 100% agreed
Fantasic video... so much good insight here.
Great topic. Such good advice. Thank you and bless you.❤
that seminar sounded like a wonderful dream. oh man. i wish i could have been there ❤ so many awesome folks there.
I love flow rolling... it helps me think and move creatively and it dials way down the "need to win" which allows me to "see" opportunities that are hard to notice when the intensity is 100%
Wow, I have been watching your videos as someone that's approaching 40 years old. I love the perspective you present for Jiu-jitsu practitioners that are not as athletic as a 20 year old. Watching this video it reminded me the way we train in our academy and it looks like you know my coach Javier Vazquez 😅.
Love your content !
Great, stuff, Rick 👍🙏
Agreed 100%. Either go hard and develop physical attributes. Or learn the greatest force multiplier. Sound jiu-jitsu technique.
Once again, thanks for strategies to improve my bjj skills. Great to have this channel. Hugs from Portugal.
Yes I completely agree I think Nick Albin has made a similar video about how we learn more when we are in a moderately stimulated state. Thanks for all the videos 🤙🏻
You are very knowledgeable. I really enjoy learning from you. Im 56 and started Jiu Jitsu 3 months ago and your tips have done me well. Thanks.
Terrific advice, especially for older people! I'd factor in consideration of attributes, also, for who to choose for your training depending on your goals. You often have great advice! Thanks.
I'm 53 years old white belt living at Azores. I really like this channel, it's helps me a lot! Thank you!
60 yo blue belt, and although I figures this out the hard way, I agree 100%… 👍🏽😊✌🏽
I love learning Jiu Jitsu and I want to keep being motivated. At 73, it's not always easy, but what you describe rings true with me. I need more time and a slower progression to learn skills. My school and the other students are great with me, but we tend to cover skills quickly and sometimes don't revisit them for several weeks. I'm learning, but I think I could learn faster if we followed your format. Granted, most of the other students are young, full of P & V and classes are not "all about me".
Hats off to you sir.
Thank you. @@Noah-jy8wb
I have been around jiu jitsu for 12 years... I'm just learning/discovering now(at the 11 year mark) that the 'hard rolling' at the end of class does not 'improve' your jiu jitsu. It's the most fun for sure (until the body aches and pain hits the next day) but it doesn't make you better at acquiring rapid skills/technique development. I agree.
Great video as always. Just got the "Old Guy" bundle myself; I'm "only" 37 but I can definitely see the importance of rolling with an eye on the long term.
Spot on!
Thanks. We agree 100%.
This sounds like an awesome approach!
On an unrelated note, my wife and I were watching the first Saw movie last night and at the end she goes “the art of skill guy got up off the floor!”
I think I found a keeper.
40 year old diabetic here.. I needed to hear this. Thank you 🙏💙
This is good!
I agree with you, and this going hard thing is going to eventually have repercussions on the popularity of your style.
So true.
Thank you
I'm so glad to have started Jiujitsu a few years ago and coming into contact with this concept of sparring with people less skilled the majority of the time (I first heard it from Danaher). I haven't even practiced Jiujitsu in a while, but the same concept carries over to other arts like Muay Thai, Boxing, and Judo where I'm currently more involved in. I feel that my skill development has accelerated once I embraced this concept and began to really spend quality time with less-intensive sparring, but in much higher volume.
It makes absolute sense. How are you ever going to get better if you keep being sloppy from being focused on speed? As a white belt, it took me FOREVER to finally find a good school where "balls to the wall" wasn't pushed. I'm 45 years old and my career requires me to be physically fit/capable (physical therapist assistant) and having some dude try to kill me made me avoid rolling at all costs. At some places, even the brown belts were rolling hard with white belts! I think some of them see getting smashed as a right of passage.
9:01 preach! 😂i enjoy practicing with some of my training partners who are better than me the ones who can dial down the intensity and do what you are saying blue belts should do….but YES i am behind technically at almost all times. The good thing is they are trying to help me so i can see when ive made progress because maybe i catch on more quickly to something they do all the time or i anticipate it or something
Beautiful explanation. I agrèe.
Wow.. I am 50 . Great shape, working out past 30 years- good healthy lifestyle and love long walks and jogging.
I joined a Jiu Jitsu school- and after the 3 day, I get great feedback from my coach on my strength and learning capabilities- BUT- I am rolling with the young white belts.. I am a white belt too, but the rolling has been 💯! And i force myself to keep up and do..I am lying if I said I didn’t enjoy it. But, I wish I could learn and focus on the technique being taught at a medium pace, to connect muscle memory and then gradually speed up rolling.. I have been thinking the same thing you’re saying, and happy you agree.. I like the school and the class mates are the best. I just don’t want to get injured so early in school. Thanks for video
It's tricky as a new white belt as you are less likely to get to dictate the pace of a roll and even if you and your partner agree to "roll at 50%", the white belt genes kick in and it becomes a battle royale in 20 seconds anyway LOL.
Welcome to the rather silly way BJJ is taught I'm afraid. Get shown techniques, drill for a few mins. Spar at 100% and so don't get the chance to try the new techniques. Don't get shown them again a year. Repeat. You can try to ask partners if they wouldn't mind starting in the new technique position, whatever it was you just learned. You can try to find partners that are happy to and are capable of a bit more flow rolling but that's hard at white when you don't yet have a game to work.
But you're all in the same boat and you will get better and then new whites will turn up and at that point you WILL be able to play your game and try things out as you're not having to fight for your life just to stop them overwhelming you.
Open mat sessions can be a real game changer for solidifying stuff you get taught in class.
Thank you 🙏 I understand what you’re saying.. time, have patience and keep moving forward.. I totally enjoy my rolling. We just got some new white belts, so let’s see if I can apply some of the things I learned.
100 % agree. How can you have skill acquisition when people view you as fresh meat. I went to two gyms before finding the right gym for me. The first gym it felt like I was an exhibition dummy. And injured my arm, and was humiliated and mocked. The second one was a bit better, but still pushed the hardcore smash, and was hazed in an Oklohoma style takedown drill😅. With zero takedown experience, other than football, against all colour belts, and a fresh blackbelt that knocked the wind out of me with an Osoto Gari. Needless to say, I am currently training under Dan Martinez, and I am so grateful i've found a coach that aligns to exactly what you are saying. Bravo👍
This is definitely something I struggle with. I try to roll light I get smashed so then I go hard. Egos are always involved no matter what and most people want to win.
We jad Pedro Sauer on seminar this week nad he was talking about the same! It is not easy though to find lower belt who does go hard and is relaxed:(
I agree 100% but it also has to do with the personality of every individual. Some people just can't and don't want to slow down.
Now, in my experience, I've adopted and kept my ''cool roll'' mentality no matter who I'm sparring with. If they tap me out, they tap me out. It's been like that for at least 6 years. My jiu jitsu has gotten so much better since that I don't even see myself rolling that hard ever again. It works for me! It just takes some time to really see any results at the beginning.
Consistency not intensity. Sprinkling in a culture of mutual benefit and respect. Boom. Thanks Rick. Come back to Wisconsin soon!
Hi Jeff! I’m teaching a seminar in Chicago early next year. Not sure if the logistics would work but it would be fun to get up there again!
I'm 48 and not yet blue. I always enjoy your stuff my friend, as it helps me greatly 😆. I agree. I absolutely meter my rolls or I won't survive. I know that I'm never going to stop, so I gotta stay healthy.
Very good video.👍
Very strange that not moore schools understand this... 🤔
This is my biggest problem, but not because im going hard, its my training partners in my gym that go 200% like their lives depend on these rolls. I try not to muscle it out anyway but im a new white belt and have no skills and the little skills i think do have is hard to incorporate into my game when these guys are trying to kill me :/
The best way to solve that problem is through communication, tell them what you want out of a roll, and if they don't like your idea, you can always find someone else. I'm a white belt, but to add to that I'm the smallest guy in the class.
Most of the time when I ask people to "go easy" or "I would like to practice some techniques / situational drills" they're happy to help, but there are people who don't know how to "go easy", I end up never rolling with them. If they wonder why I don't ever roll with them, I just tell them they go a little too hard and I can't put up a fight, I don't want to waste their time.
Their lives may not depend on it but their ego does! Haha.
People moan that their classes are too rough but the problem is they’re too afraid to say to their training partner “can we dial it back a bit “. The “rougher” training partner may actually be feeling the same and appreciate you have the guts to ask for it but everyone is afraid of being seen as weak. If I’m with someone who is a bit crazy and I’m not in the mood for it I’ll sometimes ask them to do positional rolling where we start in side control for example and when you break free you reset. You learn a lot this way and it takes some of the venom out.
Great 👍🏼 video - I think Danaher would actually agree with your approach - also, sounds consistent with the 70/30 Rule. Just an old purple belt…
A cheat code to progress is to not try to tap anyone worse than you. Just pass, take the back, hop off. Pass, get mount, hop off. Do a takedown, let them stand up, do a take down. Pull bottom side and work your way to the back. A lot of coaches don't teach defenses to submissions and will instead say "don't end up there." If you don't try to submit someone you don't end up wasting time in these techniqueless defense areas of the game
Yes, this!
I had figured this out for myself, but I noticed that this way of thinking is not really appreciated. But I'm older and stubborn, so when I feel like it's right for me personally, I'll keep doing things my way.
Why is the thought of "you'll only learn when you roll with higher belts" so pervasive? Going relatively easy and figuring out how to get into a position or get a certain submission seems way more worth it to me than going through the washing machine.
I'm happy that there're people out there with the same opinion.
100% agree 👍
It's what danaher does. I'm sure they spend time going 100. But they do positional and slow and light rolling.
Man, I've been doing jiujitsu for four months, and took the opposite approach. I went against the best people, those who nobody else wanted to roll against. I feel like I've gotten way better than I would have, if I only trained with white belts. For the past two months, I've been able to beat all the white belts, and a lot of the blue belts.
I've even, in the last two months, scaled back my intensity, to use less strength, and more technique. I easily beat white belts that have been doing this for a year, and they even go hard on me.
10 month striped white belt. I love rolling light, but most seem to not. I feel like blues are trying to protect their blue belt status, and other whites just fight like there's money on the line. I like rolling with purple belts. Very composed, and safe. I like to save the intensity for competition. DGAF about "winning" in practice, I'm more focused on keeping my breathing in check, getting positions and making sure my mechanics and technical aspects of moves I'm doing are correct.
Get outta my head Rick. Lol great stuff!
51 year old 3 stripe white belt here. I love drilling and would love the structure of a Gracie CTC! All things considered I have great training partners and coaches but the intensity of our rolls often leaves me a bit trashed.
I had to learn this myself. Guys want to win at all cost which means using strength and not technique. If you take this approach learning is much slower. I stay away from rolling partners that are trying to prove they are men.
So good. Thanks. I don't like sharing credit card details online... any chance you can add PP as a payment method?
Slow is smooth.
Smooth is fast.
I’m an old head who is curious about the art. Never took a class. Any advice for me to follow if I decide to take a class?
Used as excuse a lot to be lazy, has it's place but lot of effectiveness comes from reaction times etc
I have to slow my rolls and not over do it both rolls and warmups
💯
Its so hard not to go hard when other white belts are going savage on you. The higher belts at my gym do go pretty chill in sparring, and the higher the belt, the most chill they are.
64-year-old recently promoted blue belt, here (currently recovering from imposter syndrome). Spazzy white belts going savage is a problem in every gym, I'd say. What I do with them is have a discussion about the benefits of Rick's advice, here, and start the roll. If they don't take the advice, I defend with as little effort as possible, make no effort to submit, take a top position and wait for them to submit to their own exhaustion....... Then I smile and ask them what they learned from the roll. The answers vary from "I'm out of shape" to "I don't know" to "let me catch my breath and think about that". Then I give them the lecture again.....
@@KevinBrayCPP submit to their own exhaustion lmao. That happened to my training partner the other day, I was working on closed guard break, and he was holding on for dear life, so I just shelfed him on my knees until he collapsed.
How does this connect with playfullness ryron is always reffering to?
I’ve seen this but also going slow doesn’t work when it’s time to go hard
I don't think it's controversial at all, if people used reasoning and logic this would be the obvious conclusion. Especially when you're learning, going really hard will injur you or your partner, it makes you respond to actions with bad instincts and muscle memory that you had before learning BJJ, it makes you avoid trying new techniques because you're scared you're going to fail and get absolutely smashed or thrown on your butt, and you're going to gas out very quickly as well...the list goes on.
From time to time it's good to find a skilled partner that will "go hard" AND a new person that's bigger and will go hard because all they have is strength and natural instincts that remind you that normal people use strength and brute force, sometimes in unexpected ways. But for day-to-day training, try to flow, try to focus on your positions and your technique from all types of situations, give your brain time to process things and build muscle memory, and principle memory. You'll get better much quicker, and you most likely won't get any major injuries.
I agree with this. There is a logical way to learn jiu jitsu. Especially for people who need jiu jitsu the most who are NOT big and strong should absolutely learn jiu jitsu in a 'logical manner'. Most schools teach you to be tough by relying on your attributes so your jiu jitsu is backed up by size, strength, athleticism and speed. And you back that up by taking PEDs if you want to be a top competitor.
This is exactly what is happening with me. I want to work on techniques at a slower pace. Repetition.
I agree w/the principle but it seems to contradict to some coaches philosophy and expectations.
age 41, a large martial arts background but never did grappling in my life, which school you advice to join between one who has only white belts or one who has any range of belts, but is very competition oriented?
the closest to your house
I’ve already purchased old man bjj, is there a way to upgrade to the whole package?
Sure. I'll email you a link. Thanks!
;ove it
Sounds like you’re describing Gracie Barra methodology to improve skill set.
I completely agree. I'm 4 months in and have copped broken 2 toes and have nerve damage in my arm (my ego earned me that and its slowly getting better). Since my arm injury I've slowed down my rolls and I am really focusing on the technique of the move or movement. I think and feel I've progressed much faster slowing down and I don't have to think as much during the rolls.
That being said, I really believe there is something to a full on 100% roll. it acts as a filter mechanism for people who shouldn't be there. Some people will take offense to this statement, but I feel the 100% nature of most rolling is a net benefit to BJJ. It keeps it legitimate and stops the art from declining into Karate levels of McDojoism.
Ecological learning?
The way BJJ has traditionally been taught is often been awful: Coach turns up and teaches what appears to be a random technique he remembered in the car on the way over. Learn that. Drill it for 5 mins. Learn another move. Drill that. Now spar at 100% for a few rounds and don't worry if you don't even try the techniques we just learned....see you next week.
You wouldn't teach any other sport like that. Most sports have a curriculum of basic skills, - a drilling them, games to embed the skills in without stress, light competition etc.
I've noticed BJJ has changed somewhat, for the better, in this respect but still has a way to go at most gyms.
Record your rolls. When you see how silly you look and different (in a bad way) than higher belts, you'll slow your roll. Pun intended
It's JIU-Jitsu, not Strength-Jitsu
Rolling slow gives a false sense of ability that will often disappear under duress.
The harder you roll, the shorter your career will be.
Going again better people than u is a great way to check ur ego
you need progressive resistance and be able to focus on developing problem solving skills
I did kung fu for years, and the teacher taught us there in 2 methods soft kung fu and hard kung fu , soft was technique and multiple times hard was short full strength and only 2 or 3 times, that way you drill the movement several times before using 100% power.
It was good for muscle memory and for the body!