I fully agree that once your profitable you can and should do whatever you want. In fact, I am not against putting up a $10 place 5 to cover the field once profitable. There's lots of ways to customize this play. You did an awesome job explaining it! Thanks for showing it Jeremy.
I’ve tried something like this on bubble craps where the limits are very low, three bucks on the five, between 10 and 12 on the six and eight and then a two dollar field bet. Let the field ride three times, if it hits again, pull it down and you pretty much paid for the roll. You can take a little off the six and eight and spread it out and then it just becomes press fest. You’ll still make money on a good roll and won’t get destroyed when they suck. You’re not gonna make a fortune, but you can survive on a pretty low bankroll if you just wanna have some fun.😊
I've never been a huge fan of the Iron Cross, but I've been tinkering with ways to play it for a long time to see if I could make it better, too. I've done the Red Cross, The Crossbow, and now Greg and Chris this one, which is the complete opposite. I love the drawdown concept of this one, which makes the field bleed so much less of an issue! Well done gang
I like this update to the iron cross. The only thing I would add is that once I’m in profit I would put a minimum bet on the 5. I plan on giving this a try too.
Played this at GSR yesterday and here are some modifications that helped me 1) if you hit a field number first. Place the 5 right away for $20 (60/60/20 level). That way you are covering the 5 with profits. Its only on loan to the board until you get a 6/8 hit or 3 field hits or a combination. There were a few times it saved me yesterday. Hit an 11 first and then placed the 5, and then a 5 hit. 2) I was playing a $15 table so instead of regressing to iron cross. I regressed to $66 inside so at most I am in the hand for $16. 3) I used a ladder when I lost. I actually went up to $120 each and $40 on the field. In hindsight I could have done $90 each and $30 in field. I did win money and there were a bunch of short rolls.
Hey, new to the game. Local table around me is $15. So you would start out at 60 (6)/60 (8)/20 (field) and then bring it down to $18/$18/$15 is that right. In addition you placed the 5 after hitting?
@@rollinindasupra if the first hit is a 6/8 you make $50. I would drop down to $66 inside 15/18/18/15. So now you’re only in the hand for $16 but have $66 in action. If a field number hits I would place the 5 temporarily (either until a 6/8 hits or 2 more field). There have been many times when I would hit a field number (like a 4) and then a 5 would come right after. Hope that makes sense.
I've done this, I like it. But I do use my field winnings to place the rest of the numbers. Love it when 2 or 12 rolls so I can cover 4 & 10 right away.
For those who are/is/want to hop the 5's, you can. Like the field bet, hopping numbers can get expensive. Just like Jeremy said. There is a strategy hopping the 5's using the iron cross. One RUclips video called it quarter pound w/ EZ. On the 6/8 you bet $60. Hop the 5's $5 each. Field bet $35. Like Jeremy said, you can work your bets with the puck on or off. Big Red doesn't care because Big Red will show up anytime on any roll. 6/8 rolls, you win $70. Minus $35 field minus 10 hopping 5's. A profit of $25. A field number roll, you win $35 minus $10 hopping 5's. A profit $25. If a 5 is rolled, you win $75. Minus $5 for the other 5, minus $35 for field bet. A profit $35. Depend on the casino field layout, 2 or 12 pays double or triple, double wins $70 minus $10 hopping 5's. A profit of $60. Triple payout is a profit of $95. Then from there, you can bet whichever method your heart desire.
I do a version of the iron cross incorporating the hard ways with collect and press. So I collect the first time a number hits 100% of the time on the field, and hardways. I only throw change on the hardways so it's never a huge loss and pays a nice little bonus when you do win. Like if I hit 8 hard and I get paid for the 8 twice essentially. It kind of does the same thing you're doing here by increasing the profit potential but it doesn't really decrease the risk
I've been using this for a couple months now. If Crapsee tournaments, one can start out big then regress with no worries. Takes a minimum of rolls to get Out of the Hand. Easily win $6-700 on a good shooter at the Casino. Yes profits can cover the 5. Thanks Jeremy for this one.
Thx to all three, Jeremy for the rollout, Dice Degan for collaborating in the design of the T, and Greg -we miss you at 555! This is the Best modified Iron Cross I’ve ever seen. Period.
Hi Jeremy, Of course I want to try this. I'm a big fan of placing higher initial bets and regressing down after 1 or 2 hits. I'll play it out on Crapsee and post my results on my channel
I love it, and can’t wait to try this the next time I’m at a casino. You raise a good point, that is what to do after you regress. Do you stay with the Iron T, or do you go across, with a C & E? If you’re ambitious maybe you can do a Color Up video comparing a player that stays with the Iron T vs. a player that goes across with a C&E
I like it, play tested a couple times both ended up in profit. Nice transition to using the field to cover your box numbers and box numbers to feed your rack, lot of ways you can play this after you are out of the hand.
Thanks regression on the T love it, i have to try this next time i am in Reno, although cheaper to throw there on Thursday because on Friday Saturday its $25 a pop at Silver legacy, which means the field can get expensive without cover on the 5, i would feel better with me shooting and covering the 5 then branching out after regression, cheers
The best ratio for the iron cross I have seen is 2:1 and at this ratio the iron cross becomes profitable after 6 hits for anyone wondering. So for example, a traditional iron cross for 205 total invested requires 6 hits to produce a profit and what that looks like is 50 on the 5 and 60 each on the 6 and 8 with 35 in the field, each hit generating exactly 35 dollars. This is just an example of an iron cross at a 2:1 ratio. At the 3:1 ratio with the 5 not included it takes exactly 7 hits to become profitable assuming you don't get set backs by rolling a 5. I'm just putting this out there to explain some of the math side of things for the different ratios and nothing more.
Another great video. Keep them coming. Love this strategy. Thanks for sharing. I believe this is one of the few times a strategy did better than the “standard”. Interesting.
I used this strategy last weekend on a bubble craps machine. Got my money out after one 6/8 or two field hits. Covered all the box numbers. Had some crazy long rolls while pressing and regressing. Took it to a $600 profit. Put a hundred in my wallet and decided rather than making the two hour drive home with $500 , to go for $1000. Ugh. Lost the $500 plus took the hundred and another hundred out of my wallet and went home down a hundred. It’s just entertainment money I play with, but still………. What an idiot I felt like on that long drive home lol
I like it, I'd probably add the 5 back after the regression though and a 2 or 12 would give you the breathing room to add some of the outside place bets. Would make it a little less of a grind. But yeah, overall dropping the 5 to start is pretty smart.
I've been playing this out and it seems like my results have been a little better if I pull down and go $44 Inside on the 2nd Field hit (instead of 3rd). That reduces risk from $100 ($140 - $40 from 2 field hits) to $4. If the 6/8 hit first, I still go $44 inside with a $6 profit already. And if I get a Field hit before the 6/8, I go straight to $66 across with $4 banked. After that, bank/press (1 unit ea on sisters) adding the 4/10 first to cover the box. Would love to see you compare this to the Iron-T here like you've done with "The Standard". This has been a little more grindy, but with less big swings due to lower risk and slower start for press. I like the comments about betting Hard Ways with change tho since those are multi-roll bets. Think I'll be adding that.
I’ve been trying to optimize an iron cross variant where I hop the 5 for the firsts 3 rolls. $30 6&8 and a $15 field minus $2 for the hop means on average that makes around $15 per roll. Once I have $45-$50 in hand I change it up depending on how it’s going. Definitely have to give your version a try though!
I play this "a lot", The only difference I do is when (#5) hits I Fibonacci the Field bet. You win back your loss "push". Profit on next win (after a win). Fibonacci sequence = 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21... Example on a $10 Field bet: (previous bet + last bet) = new bet $10 first bet _ (0+10=10) so $10 second bet _ (10+10=20) so $20 third bet _ (10+20=30) so $30 fourth bet _ (20+30=50) so fifth bet $50....
Jeremy - another good video, thanks. I like your black chip trays that go the long way - where did you get them? Also - what is your spreadsheet or software for checking the standard?
Love how quick you get into profit town. I'm gonna try this on thurs starting with $30 on 6 and 8 and $10 in the field. Then regress to $18 on 6 and 8. Its too hard for me to risk $140 on first roll. I'll update how it goes on a smaller scale.
I like the base of this strategy - especially early and will def be giving it a try at some point. I do think however that getting the outside placed once you are starting to get into profit is the correct line of play. For a $5 table i think my strategy would end up being once you have recoup'd the $140 to start using field hits to place the 5 for $10 first, then the 4 & 10 for $5, and finally the 9 for $10 and let the field double dip on those outside numbers.
How about after your regress, use first win to put $10 on the 5. That would disarm the 5 from taking your $10 field bet!!! Or use part of first win at $140 to bet $20 on 5 to do same thing. $20 $60 $60. Five can roll quite often to steal that field bet.
I do this strategy.....once i am even money, I then use my field bets to place on the other numbers so im basically using house money to widen my numbers.....
I actually do like this version as far as getting out of the hand a bit quicker. The only thing that I'm adding is that once you're in profit, place a $10 5, and then if a 5 does roll, you actually make $4 instead of losing $10. I absolutely love it I will be playing it when I get to the casino today ❤
I noticed something. You usually throw a seven when you just throw the dice. When you give them a good shake, you tend to throw very long. Same happens to me when I throw them. Just an observation
I place 30$ on the 6 and 8 ....25$ on the 5 and 10$ on the field ... that way you always are making money. Once I get two three or 4 hits with no seven, I then I take my bets down and put 5$ on the dont come and lay max odds. Works great sometimes a guy will hit a point and you will lose your dont come bets. But lots of time the seven rolls and hopefully you have a few dont comes on the board. Does me very well, I usually leave as soon as I im up profit any where from 50 to 200 bucks. Then I go for dinner on the house. You can martingale this strategy to make up for some hot rollers. I usually win 7 out of ten times I play because I hit and run. Trust me hitting a few place bets then taking them down adds up. I rarely play the pass line or the dont pass. I just wait till the point is on.
There are also 2 better version of iron cross. 1 version is you can also hop the 5 with $2. 2nd version is you bet 2 unit 4-5-9-10. 3 unit 6-8, then 1 unit horn. That will also be a lower risk higher win version of iron cross.
Every 2 or 12 hit should generate a place bet starting with the 5, then, 9, the 4, the 10. You're capturing extra profit on a long roll, plugging a hole, and double-dipping on the 4, 9, and 10. Possibly even start with the 5 and then go to the hard 6 an 8 before the 4, 9, and 10. Fun strategy though!!
Hop the 5's for 2 bucks each roll. Solves the 5 problem. Now only the 7 is bad. You're welcome! Also, when regressing, I'd suggest you have a bet on the 5 so you keep all the numbers in play (besides 7)
Love this strategy but any time I hit the field I place it on another number. Always cover the five on my first hit in the field. Once I have all the numbers across, I just bet CnE or horn every roll depending upon my bankroll in my radio and on the table
I saw a guy playing something like this (but table minimums were $15, too rich for me) The only change he did was placing $15 on the don't pass for the come out roll, and played $15 on the field. Think he played over an hour, walked away with chips and was smiling, so I think he did ok, or at least didn't lose much.
I’d call this the “Profit T” strategy, especially if you don’t add numbers to the boxes and just collect. Even at 3 hits to cash (all field) averages say you can expect 2-3 more rolls for money, could be winning as much as 50% of the original bet.
I think it improves it. I am usually on $25 min tables so it increases my exposure but also the payoff. I also Always have $5 on all the hardways so your last shooter was awesome for me.
@@ColorUp Giving you a respectful compliment for the person you seem to be and why I was more adamant toward teaching someone like you what I proudly resolved vs others.
I like it....once you get that one hit on the 6 or 8 (in profit) and have that 70 dollars left on table, I would then switch to the Squeeze Play start and move to 66 inside...and go on from there
This is how I have been playing with the 440/220 regression strategy. a quarter in the field. So a win is 140 (or 70) -25 on 5/6/8. 9 hits both, and everything else is good to go. I don't play the field bet until I'm in profit territory. I also go max odds on the pass line no matter what.
@@ColorUp True. With that in mind, it actually makes statistical sense to have the bets working so that there is no wasted roll, but instinctively, going against the grain of mathematical logic, I end up doing the opposite! I wonder if the math is slightly altered when the shooter uses dice-setting and controls the throw. Your thoughts...
@@MrPoetSpeak nothing wrong with waiting. anytime a bet is not on the table, you don't have bets subject to house edge so not losing. I do not believe people can alter the mathematical probability by dice setting/control, especially over time. But, can it be altered for short session?...maybe. doesn't hurt to try.
$1400 would get you 10 shooters in worse case scenario with immediate 7 each shooter. But I’d say 1000 would give you a fair shake. Of course you could give it a shot with 300 or so, but need to catch a good win early.
I like it. Only thing for me is $15 minimum tables in my area. So in order to regress, you would have to start at 30 on the field and 84 each on 6 and 8.
If bankroll isn't a problem for you, you can play the 6/8 for 90 each with a $30 field. In the regression you can still go down to 30/30 and a 15 dollar field. In that scenario, you would only need two field hit to hit to regress. The ratio won't be perfect 3:1 after regressing but It's still fine in my opinion.
Or do what I did and don’t regress into iron cross at all. You could do $66 inside, or just 6/8. Lot of options. I didn’t mind going $66 inside. Basically only have $16 at risk.
After I get into profit I would just place the 5-9 25 each and power press and collect Also place a hard 4-10 for 5 each if it hits place the 4-10 No more field.
I would like to see one of those strategies played out using the actual dice odds. Not actual dice rolls or hypotheticals. If sevens have a 6 in 36 chance of being rolled or a 1 in seven statistical occurrence rate then use those against the strategy. I think that we would see the house advantage for real.
I've seen it take 28 rolls just to establish a point, (you wouldn't think that was possible, but it is) if most of those are 7's and your bets are working, you are in a world of hurt. I hate to say it, but I tossed six come-out 7's in a row today; luckily, I wasn't working my bets. It didn't win me anything, because I as betting both sides of the pass line ;)
What ive been doing play pass line say its an 8 ill do odds, then put money on the 6 and the DC and put 2 dollads in the center for a 2 dollar 11. So ill win on a 2,3,6,8 And 11. If itd a 6.8 ill no action the DC. If its a 5 ill go behind the 5 lay odds. If its a 12 i lose 2 dollars do it again. If its a 4,9,10 i go behind it and then place money on the field. So i got everything covered
I like this strategy, but it only works cleanly at the $10 level if you only want to work with 2 chips colors. A $15 table would essentially be $30 field and $90 6/8, regressing down to $15 field and either $42 or $48 6/8; similar results at the $25 level. Still works in theory, just messier. In these scenarios, I'd round up to $20 and $30 respectively to make it easier on everyone
I DEFINITELY like this strategy, BUT I would make it SLIGHTLY BETTER by just putting $20 on the number 5 when you have your FIRST stage Iron Cross out where you have $60 each on the 6 and 8, and $20 in the Field, and then when you have the REDUCED Iron Cross with $30 EACH on the 6 and 8 and $10 in the Field, I would ALSO have $10 on the number 5, so this way instead of LOSING the $20 or $10, you will make either $8 of $4 when the 5 hits! I just DON'T like to leave out the 5!
Hello. What would the dollar amounts be for a $5 table? I'm new and not sure if my math is right, is it $34 for 6/8 but what would the field be? Thank you so much!
@@ColorUp appreciate your videos. Do you still recommend the 6/8 come for beginners? I’m watching your video from 6 years ago. Not sure if you’ve done an updated one. Thought I’d ask since you’re active on the comment section.
Seems consistent, but iron cross or no I'm unsure why you wouldn't always min bet pass or don't pass given their tiny house edge. The strategy otherwise remains the same with a small investment increase at a lower house edge than all the other bets you're working.
Went in for $500 and lost $470 in about 40 rolls. Just too many early rolls. I like the concept but the dice like any strat has to cooperate. Need to look at hedging the early rolls.
Ok. Traditional Iron Cross ($5 table; $17 total on the 5, 6, & 8 with a $5 field bet). It would take 4 field rolls, or 8 inside number rolls to break even on a $23 wager. You would be out $23 should the shooter 7-out immediately after the come out roll. The proposed strategy at the same $5 table ($30 total inside on 6 & 8 with a $5 field bet). Without the regression component and with the 3x ratio, You would need 3 rolls on 6/8 to recuperate your money, now 6 field rolls to recuperate the investment, and on top of that, you would be out $35 should the worst case scenario happen, which is $12 more than the base strategy. The trade off does not seem worth it to me. Not a fan of the new proposal. I would consider just eliminating the 5 as a bet and using that as a baseline to lower my wager size from $23 to $17, while giving up the extra rolls on the 5 to expedite the process of being profitable quicker.
Traditional could take 8 rolls. Avg roll only lasts 8.5 which means many never make it that long. You described proposed without regression. The whole point of proposed is to have a regression to be done in 2 rolls
@@ColorUp You are right on the regression point, and I did this analysis without the regression in mind. My problem with the regression is just the more money at risk on a limited bankroll. If my buy in was capped at $200 for this $5 craps table example, I would be wagering about 1/3rd of my bankroll ($65 for the regression per your strategy of $35) for one shooter in the worst case scenario. The larger bet size per shooter is not worth the risk over a long period of time. It’s an interesting thought experiment and I did not put my example out there to criticize the approach, rather to have the discussion we are having now back and forth.
@@RazgrizGaruda1100 Yes, if bankroll is $200 strategy as presented is not recommended. I suggest players have enough bankroll to withstand 10 shooters. So 10x whatever their chosen strat is.
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I fully agree that once your profitable you can and should do whatever you want. In fact, I am not against putting up a $10 place 5 to cover the field once profitable. There's lots of ways to customize this play. You did an awesome job explaining it! Thanks for showing it Jeremy.
thanks for sharing it with me!
I’ve tried something like this on bubble craps where the limits are very low, three bucks on the five, between 10 and 12 on the six and eight and then a two dollar field bet. Let the field ride three times, if it hits again, pull it down and you pretty much paid for the roll. You can take a little off the six and eight and spread it out and then it just becomes press fest. You’ll still make money on a good roll and won’t get destroyed when they suck. You’re not gonna make a fortune, but you can survive on a pretty low bankroll if you just wanna have some fun.😊
I've never been a huge fan of the Iron Cross, but I've been tinkering with ways to play it for a long time to see if I could make it better, too. I've done the Red Cross, The Crossbow, and now Greg and Chris this one, which is the complete opposite. I love the drawdown concept of this one, which makes the field bleed so much less of an issue! Well done gang
like i mentioned, after money is back and playing with profit, id probably move out of field entirely.
I like this update to the iron cross. The only thing I would add is that once I’m in profit I would put a minimum bet on the 5. I plan on giving this a try too.
Thanks for rolling this out. Awesome video and explanation!
Thanks to you and 555 for sharing. Hope some traffic comes your way.
Played this at GSR yesterday and here are some modifications that helped me
1) if you hit a field number first. Place the 5 right away for $20 (60/60/20 level). That way you are covering the 5 with profits. Its only on loan to the board until you get a 6/8 hit or 3 field hits or a combination. There were a few times it saved me yesterday. Hit an 11 first and then placed the 5, and then a 5 hit.
2) I was playing a $15 table so instead of regressing to iron cross. I regressed to $66 inside so at most I am in the hand for $16.
3) I used a ladder when I lost. I actually went up to $120 each and $40 on the field. In hindsight I could have done $90 each and $30 in field.
I did win money and there were a bunch of short rolls.
Nice feedback and adjustment
Thanks 😊
Hey, new to the game. Local table around me is $15. So you would start out at 60 (6)/60 (8)/20 (field) and then bring it down to $18/$18/$15 is that right. In addition you placed the 5 after hitting?
@@rollinindasupra if the first hit is a 6/8 you make $50. I would drop down to $66 inside 15/18/18/15. So now you’re only in the hand for $16 but have $66 in action. If a field number hits I would place the 5 temporarily (either until a 6/8 hits or 2 more field). There have been many times when I would hit a field number (like a 4) and then a 5 would come right after.
Hope that makes sense.
I've done this, I like it. But I do use my field winnings to place the rest of the numbers. Love it when 2 or 12 rolls so I can cover 4 & 10 right away.
I have been playing a straight Place 6 & 8 strategy - This is a GREAT balance! This is my favorite strategy YET!
For those who are/is/want to hop the 5's, you can. Like the field bet, hopping numbers can get expensive. Just like Jeremy said. There is a strategy hopping the 5's using the iron cross. One RUclips video called it quarter pound w/ EZ. On the 6/8 you bet $60. Hop the 5's $5 each. Field bet $35. Like Jeremy said, you can work your bets with the puck on or off. Big Red doesn't care because Big Red will show up anytime on any roll. 6/8 rolls, you win $70. Minus $35 field minus 10 hopping 5's. A profit of $25. A field number roll, you win $35 minus $10 hopping 5's. A profit $25. If a 5 is rolled, you win $75. Minus $5 for the other 5, minus $35 for field bet. A profit $35. Depend on the casino field layout, 2 or 12 pays double or triple, double wins $70 minus $10 hopping 5's. A profit of $60. Triple payout is a profit of $95. Then from there, you can bet whichever method your heart desire.
played this a couple days ago, went up about $250 in 10 minutes, cashed out and went home. Thanks for the vids!
Once you are in profit you should cover the 5 in my opinion.
Once in profit, personally i would get out of field and cover all the box numbers for $64
Absolutely. I'd do the 64 across as well.
I would get out of the field after 1 hit and use that to place the 5 and or 9. Get on house money asap then start on hardways
I'd have my regress be 2x the min for the table on 6/8/F then put min on each box after each hit small profit with eventual cover
I do a version of the iron cross incorporating the hard ways with collect and press.
So I collect the first time a number hits 100% of the time on the field, and hardways. I only throw change on the hardways so it's never a huge loss and pays a nice little bonus when you do win. Like if I hit 8 hard and I get paid for the 8 twice essentially. It kind of does the same thing you're doing here by increasing the profit potential but it doesn't really decrease the risk
I've been using this for a couple months now. If Crapsee tournaments, one can start out big then regress with no worries. Takes a minimum of rolls to get Out of the Hand. Easily win $6-700 on a good shooter at the Casino. Yes profits can cover the 5. Thanks Jeremy for this one.
Thx to all three, Jeremy for the rollout, Dice Degan for collaborating in the design of the T, and Greg -we miss you at 555! This is the Best modified Iron Cross I’ve ever seen. Period.
Hi Jeremy, Of course I want to try this. I'm a big fan of placing higher initial bets and regressing down after 1 or 2 hits. I'll play it out on Crapsee and post my results on my channel
I love it, and can’t wait to try this the next time I’m at a casino.
You raise a good point, that is what to do after you regress. Do you stay with the Iron T, or do you go across, with a C & E?
If you’re ambitious maybe you can do a Color Up video comparing a player that stays with the Iron T vs. a player that goes across with a C&E
I love the field, been waiting for another Iron Cross video like this for a while. Thanks for reading my mind. "Live or die in the field"
I like it, play tested a couple times both ended up in profit. Nice transition to using the field to cover your box numbers and box numbers to feed your rack, lot of ways you can play this after you are out of the hand.
Great modification. Thanks for rolling this out Jeremy.
Thanks regression on the T love it, i have to try this next time i am in Reno, although cheaper to throw there on Thursday because on Friday Saturday its $25 a pop at Silver legacy, which means the field can get expensive without cover on the 5, i would feel better with me shooting and covering the 5 then branching out after regression, cheers
I have frequently used this system and have done well with it. It's simple with no complicated moving parts and you can scale it up or down.
The best ratio for the iron cross I have seen is 2:1 and at this ratio the iron cross becomes profitable after 6 hits for anyone wondering. So for example, a traditional iron cross for 205 total invested requires 6 hits to produce a profit and what that looks like is 50 on the 5 and 60 each on the 6 and 8 with 35 in the field, each hit generating exactly 35 dollars. This is just an example of an iron cross at a 2:1 ratio. At the 3:1 ratio with the 5 not included it takes exactly 7 hits to become profitable assuming you don't get set backs by rolling a 5. I'm just putting this out there to explain some of the math side of things for the different ratios and nothing more.
Another great video. Keep them coming.
Love this strategy. Thanks for sharing.
I believe this is one of the few times a strategy did better than the “standard”. Interesting.
I love the Iron Cross!!!
I used this strategy last weekend on a bubble craps machine. Got my money out after one 6/8 or two field hits. Covered all the box numbers. Had some crazy long rolls while pressing and regressing. Took it to a $600 profit. Put a hundred in my wallet and decided rather than making the two hour drive home with $500 , to go for $1000. Ugh. Lost the $500 plus took the hundred and another hundred out of my wallet and went home down a hundred. It’s just entertainment money I play with, but still………. What an idiot I felt like on that long drive home lol
I like it, I'd probably add the 5 back after the regression though and a 2 or 12 would give you the breathing room to add some of the outside place bets. Would make it a little less of a grind. But yeah, overall dropping the 5 to start is pretty smart.
I've been playing this out and it seems like my results have been a little better if I pull down and go $44 Inside on the 2nd Field hit (instead of 3rd). That reduces risk from $100 ($140 - $40 from 2 field hits) to $4. If the 6/8 hit first, I still go $44 inside with a $6 profit already. And if I get a Field hit before the 6/8, I go straight to $66 across with $4 banked. After that, bank/press (1 unit ea on sisters) adding the 4/10 first to cover the box. Would love to see you compare this to the Iron-T here like you've done with "The Standard".
This has been a little more grindy, but with less big swings due to lower risk and slower start for press.
I like the comments about betting Hard Ways with change tho since those are multi-roll bets. Think I'll be adding that.
excellent strategy. It's always difficult to stay disciplined and not get greedy
I’ve been trying to optimize an iron cross variant where I hop the 5 for the firsts 3 rolls. $30 6&8 and a $15 field minus $2 for the hop means on average that makes around $15 per roll. Once I have $45-$50 in hand I change it up depending on how it’s going. Definitely have to give your version a try though!
I do the same with the 5 if the hop bets are available.
I play this "a lot",
The only difference I do is when (#5) hits I Fibonacci the Field bet. You win back your loss "push". Profit on next win (after a win).
Fibonacci sequence = 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21...
Example on a $10 Field bet: (previous bet + last bet) = new bet
$10 first bet _ (0+10=10) so $10 second bet _ (10+10=20) so $20 third bet _ (10+20=30) so $30 fourth bet _ (20+30=50) so fifth bet $50....
Maybe I missed a video or two. However, I love this format with the numbers at the end and everything
Really like this strategy. Will try it next time at the table. Thanks for the video!
Jeremy - another good video, thanks. I like your black chip trays that go the long way - where did you get them? Also - what is your spreadsheet or software for checking the standard?
Love how quick you get into profit town. I'm gonna try this on thurs starting with $30 on 6 and 8 and $10 in the field. Then regress to $18 on 6 and 8. Its too hard for me to risk $140 on first roll.
I'll update how it goes on a smaller scale.
Update?
@@420hotbox36 can't remember if I came up ahead, I don't think I did though.
If you parlay your field and hit it you are at your win. If the 6 or 8 hit you have your $50. Good strategy
You hit the 100k, so huge for a craps channel.
It’s an honor
I like the base of this strategy - especially early and will def be giving it a try at some point.
I do think however that getting the outside placed once you are starting to get into profit is the correct line of play.
For a $5 table i think my strategy would end up being once you have recoup'd the $140 to start using field hits to place the 5 for $10 first, then the 4 & 10 for $5, and finally the 9 for $10 and let the field double dip on those outside numbers.
Another thing you could do is lay the 4 or 10 for the amount on the 6,8 and field a few roles to hedge the 7.
SWEET strategy and roll out. Would LOVE to see one for fun with HOP bets
How about after your regress, use first win to put $10 on the 5. That would disarm the 5 from taking your $10 field bet!!! Or use part of first win at $140 to bet $20 on 5 to do same thing. $20 $60 $60. Five can roll quite often to steal that field bet.
Jeremy, as a hedge, would you put money on the don't pass? If so how much? Thanks.
I do this strategy.....once i am even money, I then use my field bets to place on the other numbers so im basically using house money to widen my numbers.....
I called that "The CREEPER" Because I always creep up. I never knew that was a strategy. Cool
Winner winner t-bone steak dinner.
I actually do like this version as far as getting out of the hand a bit quicker. The only thing that I'm adding is that once you're in profit, place a $10 5, and then if a 5 does roll, you actually make $4 instead of losing $10. I absolutely love it I will be playing it when I get to the casino today ❤
Good luck
Fantastic job as always with the presentation
I'm not sure if you've done a video where you tip but I think it'd be great to see.
Thanks for all the great videos!!
I’ve done several 😃
I would say you had profitable rolls. The Standard did $20 less in profits. It is a nice improvement.
I noticed something. You usually throw a seven when you just throw the dice. When you give them a good shake, you tend to throw very long. Same happens to me when I throw them. Just an observation
I hop the 5’s until the first field hit, then place the 5 at table minimum. At least it covers the hole and hopping is only a $2 investment.
What is it's payout?
I place 30$ on the 6 and 8 ....25$ on the 5 and 10$ on the field ... that way you always are making money. Once I get two three or 4 hits with no seven, I then I take my bets down and put 5$ on the dont come and lay max odds. Works great sometimes a guy will hit a point and you will lose your dont come bets. But lots of time the seven rolls and hopefully you have a few dont comes on the board. Does me very well, I usually leave as soon as I im up profit any where from 50 to 200 bucks. Then I go for dinner on the house. You can martingale this strategy to make up for some hot rollers. I usually win 7 out of ten times I play because I hit and run. Trust me hitting a few place bets then taking them down adds up. I rarely play the pass line or the dont pass. I just wait till the point is on.
There are also 2 better version of iron cross. 1 version is you can also hop the 5 with $2. 2nd version is you bet 2 unit 4-5-9-10. 3 unit 6-8, then 1 unit horn. That will also be a lower risk higher win version of iron cross.
What do you think about hoppin the five
Every 2 or 12 hit should generate a place bet starting with the 5, then, 9, the 4, the 10. You're capturing extra profit on a long roll, plugging a hole, and double-dipping on the 4, 9, and 10. Possibly even start with the 5 and then go to the hard 6 an 8 before the 4, 9, and 10. Fun strategy though!!
Hop the 5's for 2 bucks each roll. Solves the 5 problem.
Now only the 7 is bad.
You're welcome! Also, when regressing, I'd suggest you have a bet on the 5 so you keep all the numbers in play (besides 7)
I like to playing craps. But in Singapore the table is so hight on weekday is $25 and weekends is $50 😂
I would like to see some kind of pressure strategy, even if it's just pressing the 6 and 8 when a 2 or 12 rolls for the field.
Id say once you have your $140 back in rack, yeah press as you feel comfortable
Love this strategy but any time I hit the field I place it on another number. Always cover the five on my first hit in the field. Once I have all the numbers across, I just bet CnE or horn every roll depending upon my bankroll in my radio and on the table
I saw a guy playing something like this (but table minimums were $15, too rich for me) The only change he did was placing $15 on the don't pass for the come out roll, and played $15 on the field. Think he played over an hour, walked away with chips and was smiling, so I think he did ok, or at least didn't lose much.
Once you've merged to the 70 casino money, you should cover the 5 and then cover the rest of the field with a horn bet asap
Good! I like the early profit taking here!
Me too!
I like it, thanks for sharing!
Can you play this strat with pass line and odds? Or does that have too much risk reward?
I’d call this the “Profit T” strategy, especially if you don’t add numbers to the boxes and just collect. Even at 3 hits to cash (all field) averages say you can expect 2-3 more rolls for money, could be winning as much as 50% of the original bet.
Well if we remove the 5, lets remove the 6. 8, and field and go get lunch lol
😜
I tried this tonight and I think I might start to use it instead of Double Tap
I think it improves it. I am usually on $25 min tables so it increases my exposure but also the payoff. I also Always have $5 on all the hardways so your last shooter was awesome for me.
Can you mix this strategy with the mathematician strategy from about a year ago? Bets on 6/8 that increase from 12, 30, 90 after each seven?
But you do a very good job at presenting your videos and why I was more stickler toward a better class of youtuber in my efforts.
I do my best to present. Not sure what second half of your sentence means?
@@ColorUp Giving you a respectful compliment for the person you seem to be and why I was more adamant toward teaching someone like you what I proudly resolved vs others.
I like it....once you get that one hit on the 6 or 8 (in profit) and have that 70 dollars left on table, I would then switch to the Squeeze Play start and move to 66 inside...and go on from there
This is how I have been playing with the 440/220 regression strategy. a quarter in the field. So a win is 140 (or 70) -25 on 5/6/8. 9 hits both, and everything else is good to go. I don't play the field bet until I'm in profit territory. I also go max odds on the pass line no matter what.
I just showed this system? Did you happen to catch that by chance. Good vid though
question if you at a 15 minimum table would you bet 45 on the 6 and 8 or 48 to get paid fairly for the first hit?
42 or 48, always amounts in $6 units
Can you do a video on your go to strategy when you’re in the casino?
I just watched your Grand Casino 27 count roll. Why was the 'Tall' not paid?
Thanks for posting this video. I am a big fan of the Iron Cross, but I wouldn't have the bets working on the Come Out roll.
I understand. Whether before the come out or after the come out, the odds are still one and six for that seven to show though.
@@ColorUp True. With that in mind, it actually makes statistical sense to have the bets working so that there is no wasted roll, but instinctively, going against the grain of mathematical logic, I end up doing the opposite! I wonder if the math is slightly altered when the shooter uses dice-setting and controls the throw. Your thoughts...
@@MrPoetSpeak nothing wrong with waiting. anytime a bet is not on the table, you don't have bets subject to house edge so not losing. I do not believe people can alter the mathematical probability by dice setting/control, especially over time. But, can it be altered for short session?...maybe. doesn't hurt to try.
@@ColorUp I lean toward your thinking.
$140 per shooter to start (assuming $10 min in the field) what kind of bankroll would you recommend? Gotta be close to 1k?
$1400 would get you 10 shooters in worse case scenario with immediate 7 each shooter. But I’d say 1000 would give you a fair shake.
Of course you could give it a shot with 300 or so, but need to catch a good win early.
I like it. Only thing for me is $15 minimum tables in my area. So in order to regress, you would have to start at 30 on the field and 84 each on 6 and 8.
If bankroll isn't a problem for you, you can play the 6/8 for 90 each with a $30 field. In the regression you can still go down to 30/30 and a 15 dollar field. In that scenario, you would only need two field hit to hit to regress. The ratio won't be perfect 3:1 after regressing but It's still fine in my opinion.
Or do what I did and don’t regress into iron cross at all. You could do $66 inside, or just 6/8. Lot of options. I didn’t mind going $66 inside. Basically only have $16 at risk.
I like it! Great to have options!
I would treat the table minimum as $20 in this case. Initial bet of $40 field, $120 6/8, regress to $20 and $60 respectively to keep it all clean
You can go $15 (field) and 48 each 6 & 8. That accomplishes the 1/3 margin.
Hey question u win when the puck is off hitting on the 6 and 8 on the come out roll.
If you override the default and have your bets working. Yes, you can win on the come out roll.
Once you regress are the you in Profit? You pulled 120 down and only have 90 on the board....where am I wrong?
once your out with profit you can & should expand & get the 5,9,4,10 and on the field wins place/press the box numbers
once in profit, change to your liking. I personally like to get out of filed asap
Would this be a good way to play on cruise ships? thought you could get some good table time with the system.
Maybe. You can get to profit fast so that’s good. A bunch of sevens would really hurt this one though.
It seems to me that a lay 4 or 10 after a few numbers would be a good hedge on this strategy. The hedge should be twice the field.
Do you play this strat only when your not the shooter?
After I get into profit I would just place the 5-9 25 each and power press and collect Also place a hard 4-10 for 5 each if it hits place the 4-10 No more field.
What about Laying the 5 instead of ignoring it? That way you shift the risk away from the 7.. 6 ways to roll a 7, only 4 ways to roll a 5..
Once im in the profit, i add money to the hardways and odds on my donts
I would like to see one of those strategies played out using the actual dice odds. Not actual dice rolls or hypotheticals. If sevens have a 6 in 36 chance of being rolled or a 1 in seven statistical occurrence rate then use those against the strategy. I think that we would see the house advantage for real.
I've seen it take 28 rolls just to establish a point, (you wouldn't think that was possible, but it is) if most of those are 7's and your bets are working, you are in a world of hurt. I hate to say it, but I tossed six come-out 7's in a row today; luckily, I wasn't working my bets. It didn't win me anything, because I as betting both sides of the pass line ;)
Nice strategy! 😎🎲🎲
I'll play this system today
What ive been doing play pass line say its an 8 ill do odds, then put money on the 6 and the DC and put 2 dollads in the center for a 2 dollar 11. So ill win on a 2,3,6,8
And 11. If itd a 6.8 ill no action the DC. If its a 5 ill go behind the 5 lay odds.
If its a 12 i lose 2 dollars do it again. If its a 4,9,10 i go behind it and then place money on the field. So i got everything covered
I like this strategy, but it only works cleanly at the $10 level if you only want to work with 2 chips colors. A $15 table would essentially be $30 field and $90 6/8, regressing down to $15 field and either $42 or $48 6/8; similar results at the $25 level. Still works in theory, just messier. In these scenarios, I'd round up to $20 and $30 respectively to make it easier on everyone
I DEFINITELY like this strategy, BUT I would make it SLIGHTLY BETTER by just putting $20 on the number 5 when you have your FIRST stage Iron Cross out where you have $60 each on the 6 and 8, and $20 in the Field, and then when you have the REDUCED Iron Cross with $30 EACH on the 6 and 8 and $10 in the Field, I would ALSO have $10 on the number 5, so this way instead of LOSING the $20 or $10, you will make either $8 of $4 when the 5 hits!
I just DON'T like to leave out the 5!
I still prefer Dealer John’s “Iron Condor” strategy, that’s not what you and he called it but that’s what I call it.
Hello. What would the dollar amounts be for a $5 table? I'm new and not sure if my math is right, is it $34 for 6/8 but what would the field be? Thank you so much!
For this strat you want a 3:1 ratio. So if field is table minimum of $5, the 6/8 would be 3x that amount or $18 each. $41 total bet
@@ColorUp thank you so much. Really appreciate you taking the time to let me know. Funny how I’m watching one of your videos right now!
@@peanahbutta412 appreciate you watching!
@@ColorUp appreciate your videos. Do you still recommend the 6/8 come for beginners? I’m watching your video from 6 years ago. Not sure if you’ve done an updated one. Thought I’d ask since you’re active on the comment section.
@@peanahbutta412 I have filmed that one several times over the years. I go back to it often, its a great conservative strategy.
Seems consistent, but iron cross or no I'm unsure why you wouldn't always min bet pass or don't pass given their tiny house edge. The strategy otherwise remains the same with a small investment increase at a lower house edge than all the other bets you're working.
Maybe I just need to practice it, but too many moving parts for me. Felt safer and more positive results when bets on the Arnold system.
I would start using field winnings to cover the other numbers
Went in for $500 and lost $470 in about 40 rolls. Just too many early rolls. I like the concept but the dice like any strat has to cooperate. Need to look at hedging the early rolls.
“Everybody’s got a plan until they get 7ed Out in the face.” - Mike Tyson, probably
Ok.
Traditional Iron Cross ($5 table; $17 total on the 5, 6, & 8 with a $5 field bet). It would take 4 field rolls, or 8 inside number rolls to break even on a $23 wager. You would be out $23 should the shooter 7-out immediately after the come out roll.
The proposed strategy at the same $5 table ($30 total inside on 6 & 8 with a $5 field bet). Without the regression component and with the 3x ratio, You would need 3 rolls on 6/8 to recuperate your money, now 6 field rolls to recuperate the investment, and on top of that, you would be out $35 should the worst case scenario happen, which is $12 more than the base strategy. The trade off does not seem worth it to me.
Not a fan of the new proposal. I would consider just eliminating the 5 as a bet and using that as a baseline to lower my wager size from $23 to $17, while giving up the extra rolls on the 5 to expedite the process of being profitable quicker.
Traditional could take 8 rolls. Avg roll only lasts 8.5 which means many never make it that long.
You described proposed without regression. The whole point of proposed is to have a regression to be done in 2 rolls
@@ColorUp
You are right on the regression point, and I did this analysis without the regression in mind.
My problem with the regression is just the more money at risk on a limited bankroll. If my buy in was capped at $200 for this $5 craps table example, I would be wagering about 1/3rd of my bankroll ($65 for the regression per your strategy of $35) for one shooter in the worst case scenario. The larger bet size per shooter is not worth the risk over a long period of time.
It’s an interesting thought experiment and I did not put my example out there to criticize the approach, rather to have the discussion we are having now back and forth.
@@RazgrizGaruda1100 Yes, if bankroll is $200 strategy as presented is not recommended. I suggest players have enough bankroll to withstand 10 shooters. So 10x whatever their chosen strat is.