There's a minimum distance required for counter charge to actually trigger: BRB p167: Counter Charge: The unit surges forward to meet the enemy charge. Measure the distance between the two units. If the distance is less than the Movement characteristic of the charging unit, the charged unit has not enough time to meet the enemy charge and must either Hold or Flee instead. Easy to miss when you rush at your enemy ^^
characters can only make way into fighting ranks they are not in pg 209 you cannot make way to a different spot in the same fighting rank time 32:22 when charging through difficult terrain ie the woods you roll 2 dice and take the lowest as well as -1 from your move time 35:58 pg 128 you can wizardly dispell as many times as you want however you cannot use that wizard if they are in combat time 36:54 pg 110 you still count as having charged you don't lose the charge bonus because the lance was blunted pg 111 of forces of fantasy pg pg 131 of BBB for accidental contact time 40:22 you add +1 combat res for each close order not just once pg 152 time 43:11
@@goiko2526 you are only partially quoting a section what you are quoting is from moving through the ranks on pg 208 this section does not describe when a character may move through the ranks only the how. characters in combat on pg 209 tells you when you can move through the ranks in this scenario
@@wittcomb4378 Yes, you are right, according to page 209 only characters out of the fighting rank could move into the fighting rank. I missed that part. Thanks for the explanation, mate!
Notice about first combat (errants vs dogs), if charged unit has to close the door, the unit that was charging makes disorted charge, and in that case lance formation is blunted and no initiative bonus for charging. Love the TOW content, cheers
@@sn_dc You do the fast forward overview wich is superb. It captures a lot of what is going on. You don't do it later on, and I missed it ;) Its nice to see how you moved and wheeled, to get at Your destnation and such.
It seems pretty clear to me you can use newly dead to take a unit of zombies beyond their starting strength, also if they are not wounded. That is literally the inly thing the newly dead does.
Remember when Charging through Terrain it is 2d6 take the LOWEST, in addition to the -1 Movement. Also no spells can be cast on Units in Combat unless the spell specifically says, so make sure to check spell descriptions.
you are able to target the unit regardless if have no wound lost with invocation(simply dont add any model if is the unit is full) and with the rules of the zombie you can add the number over the starting size . is pretty clear for me. quote :During the Command sub-phase of their turn, if they are not engaged in combat, this character may attempt to resurrect the fallen (see page 28) by making a Leadership test (using their own Leadership). If this test is passed, a single friendly unit that has the Necromantic Undead special rule and is within 12" of this character recovers a number of lost Wounds. the only thing required is make the ld test and have a necromantic undead to chose regardless is full or not
@@robnoel9306 From the PDF: Invocation of Nehek: "During the Command sub-phase of their turn, if they are not engaged in combat, this character may attempt to resurrect the fallen" Then the zombies' Newly Dead: "When resurrecting the fallen, a unit with this special rule can be taken beyond its starting size."
Yay! DC finally got a Win! Those Bretonians are totally stunning. I guess when you're on your way back from a crusade where you just fought 3 battles it is wise to take a long rest before taking on a undead/vampire army.
I had a sinking feeling when it was introduced as 3-0 vs 0-x and they are in Parravon with no pegasus knights 😭 gorgeous army paint job on the frogs though 💪 well don't coming back from disgrace to glory! @@SNBattleReports
Good report. One reminder: When you Fall Back in Good Order, you are suposed to Flee, Rally and Reform. In the Flee move, if you contact whhit a friendly unit, you pass through it and this unit has to make a Panic test (knights don't for peasants) and the pursuing unit contacts with this new unit.
Love the reports guyz! as a note: fall back in good order is a flee and will go through your own units! (pg 134 states this as the only 2 exceptions are the length of the move and the auto-rally). So it also causes panic and might result in pursuit into a fresh enemy by accidental contact. This for the men at arms & knights turns 4 and 5.(1.33..) also no counter charge up close.
If I have a Character in an outer lance slot, are all the opp fighting rank considered in base contact with that character and can direct all their attacks to it?
It's my fault in a sense that it's entirely your fault. Angle those advanced troops so that the overrun pulls them off to the side for a counter charge. Not into your cavalry
Prophetess plus sword of the quest and the familiar that lets you choose your spells. Take spectral doppelganger, use shield of the lady special rule to put her at the back and then cast spectral doppelganger in combat to absolutely hammer your enemy (Yes you can do this as shield of the lady states you may cast spells as though she were in the fighting rank.) = 2D6 Strength 5 AP-2 Multiple wounds 2.
Unit rules override army rules which override base rules. So you can cast IoN on zombies to raise them past their starting point and they do not have to be wounded initially to do so as you mentioned
Interesting! Is there a page reference to the rules overriding? I mean I agree it makes sense and is silly otherwise (taking 1 wound to then bring back more) it’s just been debated so thought best to ask the community! Thanks 😊
I would say the rule is intended to work like it was played today as it was like that in past editions. Also it seems to be a "refined" copy paste of the Arise! rule for Khemri armies, where there is no posibility to increase the starting size of any unit. I would apply it as it is possible to increase starting size of zombie unita. 😊
Page 28 of the Vampire Counts legacy army list, there you can find the "Resurrecting the Fallen" rule and also "the Newly Dead" rule. Short: Units with "The Newly Dead" can be resurrected beyond starting size, units without not.@@SNBattleReports
@Gcastanera I would agree with the refined copy and paste of arise! Seems like maybe they just glazed over the wording of lost wounds, and didn't realize it's not always "lost wounds" in the case of zombies. Also, they intentionally put zombies unit sizes to be 20-40, not sure if that means they could never be brought above 40, but if it did, they most likely added that in so you can't go crazy raising zombies as high as you want and would imply they intended to allow zombies to be resurrected right away without needing to lose wounds
I've seen folks argue a paladin with Grail Vow can't join a unit of Battle Pilgrims with a Reliquae since the unit becomes unbreakable. But if deployed into it, it isn't unbreakable until after he's added, and then wouldn't he be unbreakable as well since the Reliquae gives it to the unit?
Brilliant game guys and I really like this channel. I'm very much still a fan of the hand held view - it's just a lot more immersive and you can see what's going on properly.
Love to see every knight in individual heraldic colours! The noble knights and errants should not have uniform colours, and I love the exra care and details put in to make them individuals (and still find ways to tie them together as a singular force).
@1:33:13 Did you forget to move the Units after the combat result? Looked to me like the Men at Arms might have fled through the Knights and the Skeletons Pursue into the flank of the Knights.
Whats that intro?? There is no fear in the heart of a Bretonian knight guided by the Lady! They welcome the chance to prrof their honour and stop the sacrilege.
31:30 looks like the knights would not hit the bloodknights with the overrun. The dogs were angled pretty well to set up that trap, while I do enjoy not being overly nitpicky, it does take away from your tactical dog positioning if you just let them have the charge anyway. Maybe I was just an unfortunate viewing angle.
Correct but in this case I did not do that (unless you’re just making a general point and not about this game), the Necro had one lore of Undeath spell and the Vamp had one 🙂 (Hellish Vigour on the Vamp and Macabre on the Vamp) full list in the description! 👍👍
You can claim a +1 combat res bonus for each unit in close order in each combat, it isn't limited to 1. You were only adding 1 when the Brets were fighting both the skeletons and blood knights. pg.153 last paragraph.
Pretty sure curse of years was cast on the Duke while he was in combat. Unless I just zoned out, and think that's what happened. I don't have the time stamp handy
ok i have to give it to him, Mr Pardo's eagle chainmail was pretty sick. my personal highlight tho, when i caught myself wondering how many 2s can a guy objectively roll in a row..stunning #DCdoingthework #somany2s
If you want to win, you really have to be more mindful of where you put your units. Your Direwolves were a free springboard to make it easy for the knights to charge your Blood Knights.
Actually DC picks up the wound dice to roll for his hits on a few occasions and Pardo reminds him of those wounds, inc those that were regen'd @@SNBattleReports
58:43 You can not cast hex into combat (If spell itself does not allow it) You do not have to have LOS for hexes and enchantments (just front arc) When you will do another battle rep, I would love some dark elves!
Can I check please. 35min 52secs. You roll a 4, so 8inch total charge. That’s a 6 block wide unit on 25mm bases. It would take 9inches just simply wheel 90degrees to face the knights. Even if you stopped short on the wheel and ‘closed the door’ with a free align, you’d not have enough to cover the distance to make contact, which looked to be 5/6inches.
@@idiotproofdalek rules state you measure a wheel from the outside edge / furthest point that travels. RB page 124. Hence the maths I’ve detailed out for the unit in question. Charge states you must measure and include the wheel to endeavour to bring as many models into contact. Page 126. It’s overlooked, but it’s hard to get a big wheel off and still complete a charge. Why I highlighted it. How do you think it’s meant to work? Please reference RB pages and paragraphs. Keen to see where I’m wrong. The game mechanic is designed like this to stop a full 90deg turn basically into a charge. Side on side units getting flank charges off. Also why you can’t just turn and charge.
@@idiotproofdalek again. RB page 126, wheel to endeavour to bring as many into contact. So that’s a hefty wheel still at such a steep angle, then, even with just a couple inches as you say, he’d have only brought a model or two into contact, not the whole unit as he did in the bat rep. Yes a free wheel to align, but that’s not to be used to get more in contact. That’s just to straighten up. Wheel is movement expensive. It’s an arch measurement. Do some measuring for yourself with a tray of 5 wide etc. I’ve been drawn it out on CAD to check.
First turn shooting; Pardo rolled a lot of dice. You can't move and volley fire per Volley Fire rules on Pg.180. I see this being done a lot, because for some reason GW tends to end with the exception rather than doing the sensible thing and leading with it and people tend not to read the whole thing and miss the exception/s. I'm guilty of this myself and once only half-read a rule for my Legio in AT that had me (inadvertently) cheat my way to 2nd place in a tournament. Did think it sounded a bit good (I did fess up to the TOs when I realised btw).
Thanks for the pointer! Yer were all guilty of skim reading rules haha we always try our best to keep it as close to the rules as possible - never easy with a camera in hand and a bunch of armies to remember haha 😊
I think your channel has the best old world battle reports, at least from what i've watched so far 😅 I just wonder, why so much negativity on comments 😢 I used to play warhammer fantasy with vampire counts army a long time ago, i made a list for old world for fun VC players list has some issues with character items as others mentioned It kinda sucks you cant use lance on charging then magical weapon, didnt catch that when reading the rules Keep up the good work guys!
No Hauberk for the Necro. A character must be able to equip the mundane equivalent to buy the magic armour. Yes the Hauberk allows spell casting but this is a reference for the Vamps who want to wear it.
Nice report, as always. Still feel a little bit too much the introduction because the explanation of the armies seems repetitive when the deployment is explaned (saying again which unita the army have). Apart from that little thing. I love how you guys make your videos and had a lot of fun viewing all your Old world reports. ❤
Thanks for the feedback! We typically go over the units to indicate where they are deployed, but you’re right sometimes we re-introduce them a bit too much! Probably because of the time difference from doing the intro’s to starting the game etc haha glad you enjoyed! 😊
Fear only works when a unit is of a higher unit strength now. So you need to have 1) Fear 2) higher unit strength So they didn’t care much for my lowly skeletons haha
If you have a magical weapon, you ca never choose to use a mundane one - meaning that if you buy a magic weapon, you cannot start the fight with a mundane lance. Page 338 for magic weapons, though the lance rules also specify you must use a hand weapon after first turn, not just any other weapon :)
You have to use the same weapon throughout the whole combat, the exception is that lances say you switch to hand weapon after the first turn. So you'd have to choose to not use the lance first turn if you want to use another weapon at all in the combat.@@nemo-no-name @snBattleReports I'm also dubious to taking two magic weapons
Interesting point but I came across the fact you can take ‘very common’ magic items in the same category, as it’s a magically lance that states you can only use it in the first turn, stands to reason you then use your next weapon
@@sn_dc If you had two magical weapons, you can pick which one to use. That said, I don't think this is a very important rule point, I say go for funnest approach. I just pointed it out because I thought you took regular Lance and magical weapon.
I don’t play Old World (yet), but I’m surprised you could do so well without a high lvl wizard in the list. Magic seems kinda OP in games I’ve watched.
Really nice batrep! I guess the canon apocalypse was thrown into the sea to cure the curse? Ps: don't use the "white flag" expressions when playing Bret please. As a French, it deeply hurts my feelings 😂
For the Newly dead interaction its such a kerfuffle between the language of the three rules involved: invocation of Nehek, resurrecting the fallen, and Newly dead. IoN referenceing resurrecting the fallen in the first bit then mentions the unit it targets recovers "lost wounds", then the bullets below just say recover wounds, nothing about them needing to be "lost wounds." The language just seems poor the way i see you can target a unit to recover lost wounds (doesnt say you have to target a unit with lost wounds just a unit within command range) then, when consulting the bullets below it simply states to recover wounds based on level etc. Resurecting the fallen also sort of connects recovering lost wounds with ressurecting the fallen as if they are the same thing. Also "Lost wounds" isnt defined so you could also argue that if a unit can be ressurected beyond starting size it would perpetually have lost potential unit size there for has lost wounds. Anyways, i think they just messed up on the language and need to Errata/FAQ but its legacy so who knows if the ever will
@@mitchcowan1446 yes the Newly dead rule overwrites the limit to resurrecting mentioned in "resurrecting the fallen." What I think DC is unsure of is that Invocation of Nehek says pick a unit to "recover a number of lost wounds." And if zombies haven't lost wounds how could they recover lost wounds. But like I said, the next part of IoN simply says recover wounds, and the part that targets a unit doesn't say it has to be a unit with lost wounds, it should be fine
Great points both, it’s as you say above an issue with their phrases - as Comulin states it’s the ‘lost wounds’ that I and others pick up as the conflicting rule with Newly Dead. I’ll play it as it should be from now on though 😊
It really comes down to what the intention they had making the rules for newly dead. It only matters for vampire counts, which is an lagacy faction, so it may just be that they were trying to keep the language the same as tomb kings arise which is supported and it conflicts with how newly dead should work and they didn't realise. There is definitely a lot of effort put into the legacy factions but I feel like there wasn't as much proofreading because there are a number of other things that are likely not intended to be that way. Like thw stegadons giant bow doesn't have through and through keyword so it's not a bolt thrower anymore just a single shot
Yeh Overrun is only if the unit is destroyed before the break test phase, p156, doesn't seem to interact well with undead models as they often crumble in the break test phase
@@ed8930 Unstable specifically happens before the break test see p. 180 "These Wounds are lost after combat results have been calculated but before Break tests are made". So you can still overrun against undead if they all crumble to death.
Very bad rules interaction with the Paladin in Battle Pilgrims. Unbreakable units can't be joined by characters without it. BP don't have it unless a Grail vow is within 12''. Given that it would be impossible for a Grail Vow to join the unit mid battle there's a solid argument for them not being able to be deployed together as well. It gets worse of course. You can deploy a character without the Grail Vow within the unit. Then, during play the BP could go within 12'' of a grail vow. Making the unit unbreakable.....but the character who isn't unbreakable is already in the unit.....the rules only forbid them joining. They've not addressed the issues yet. But it's entirely possible that a character in a unit that becomes unbreakable switches it off.
The Paladins vow allows him to join a peasant unit, and the Relique provides unbreakable/immune to psych if a character or unit with the Grail vow is wothin 12", and the Paladin may have that. If not, maybe the Duke was nearby? If not, then yes, wouldn't have that rule
Ok so the way I see this is that the Grail Reliquae is the equivalent of a ready made magic banner/musician model and the unit itself are the battle pilgrims (because you can get a unit of battle pilgrims without the reliquae). My point is since the Paladin has the Virtue that allows him to join the unit he would do so and then benefit from a purchased upgraded. This would be no different to a normal unit getting a magic banner that made the unit unbreakable. Ergo A paladin with the virtue of empathy can join a Battle Pilgrim unit which has paid for the Grail Reliquae upgrade. So personally if you start in it they don’t have unbreakable until he joins so that’s fine. BUT! If he leaves he can’t join again as will be within measurement of making them Unbreakable
@@SNBattleReports Hello from New Zealand! Fellow Welshie here, love you guys. Thanks heaps for replying, can't wait to hear what you think on my deeper thoughts! Bear with me. I've put a lot of thought into this particular hole and want to try to be comprehensive. Personally I was writing a special army list with this combo as the thematic centre before I came across the issue and the more I thought the more it didn't work. Whilst I totally see what you're saying and I would be in the 'just do it' camp cos I'd want to see it and it's cool, it doesn't hold water. I do think right now it's fairly clear that it can't be done. The fact that it's an upgrade doesn't really matter. The upgrade is on the unit. If the upgrade was a banner being held by the Paladin then he wouldn't be able to join them, so why is it ok the other way? You're basically saying that the unit off the table doesn't have any keywords yet but if that's the case it causes far more problems! If the Paladin was a unit upgrade too, then yes. He's a part of the unit. Or if there is an exception...please see Empire Flagellants. (Forces of Fantasy p61 - Fanatical Zeal.) Even if you look past all that, allowing it to happen makes an issue of if it blocks Unbreakable from the unit or not I'd say that Stubborn would be the rule to compare it to, given it's basically an upgrade of it. There it indicates that a character without Stubborn can't use it when within a unit that is Stubborn..... Yep, a whole new problem!! Thanks GW.... Is this saying the unit can act Stubborn/Unbreakable but the character can't? So they have to roll and might behave in a different way? Right now.....yeah kinda. Should it be? Probably not. If you're falling on probably too then you're full circle and can say with additional confidence that once the Reliquae is purchased no character without unbreakable should be in there....for any reason. The unit should be considdered Unbreakable at all times but it just can't be used with not within 12'' of a Grail Vow. That would clear it up! So whilst I'd totally just let you do it and give the Paladin Unbreakble just for ease and fun. You can't be putting it in videos and spreading the use of the combo. At least not till they fix it in favour of it.
@@azdavies87 I still think we are right so it’s really two different opinions. Right now nobody else has said anything which is weird if it was like this. Let’s see if anybody else picks it up.
@@SNBattleReports Sorry if it came across as mean, not trying to be its just one of thpse niche things that can really swing a fight one way or anotger especially with horde rules
🔥 If you want more awesome content join SN+ with the below link for more exclusive Battle Reports: 🔥
ruclips.net/channel/UC0puBaPD2eSSAq87lyv7sYgjoin
Immune to Psychology does not remove the -1 to Ld from terror. The rule "only" makes you pass Fear, Panic and Terror tests automatically.
Perfect thanks
A quick reminder, when the Blood Knights countercharge the Duke: you can't countercharge if the distance is shorter than the charging unit's movement.
Yeah forgot about that one thanks
There's a minimum distance required for counter charge to actually trigger:
BRB p167:
Counter Charge: The unit surges forward to meet the enemy
charge. Measure the distance between the two units. If the
distance is less than the Movement characteristic of the
charging unit, the charged unit has not enough time to meet
the enemy charge and must either Hold or Flee instead.
Easy to miss when you rush at your enemy ^^
Correct
You 100% can use Nehek to grow Zombies past their starting number. That is the whole point of the Newly Dead rule! Other units can only replace only
For sure I agree! It’s just the ‘lost wounds’ part of Nehek that’s confusing
characters can only make way into fighting ranks they are not in pg 209 you cannot make way to a different spot in the same fighting rank time 32:22
when charging through difficult terrain ie the woods you roll 2 dice and take the lowest as well as -1 from your move time 35:58 pg 128
you can wizardly dispell as many times as you want however you cannot use that wizard if they are in combat time 36:54 pg 110
you still count as having charged you don't lose the charge bonus because the lance was blunted pg 111 of forces of fantasy pg pg 131 of BBB for accidental contact time 40:22
you add +1 combat res for each close order not just once pg 152 time 43:11
Thanks for the notes and taking the time to do the time stamps and page numbers, I’ll look into those 😊👍
Thanks
Not sure about the first one. It says you "occupe the desired space, within or adyacent to the appropiate rank"
@@goiko2526 you are only partially quoting a section what you are quoting is from moving through the ranks on pg 208 this section does not describe when a character may move through the ranks only the how. characters in combat on pg 209 tells you when you can move through the ranks in this scenario
@@wittcomb4378 Yes, you are right, according to page 209 only characters out of the fighting rank could move into the fighting rank. I missed that part. Thanks for the explanation, mate!
Notice about first combat (errants vs dogs), if charged unit has to close the door, the unit that was charging makes disorted charge, and in that case lance formation is blunted and no initiative bonus for charging. Love the TOW content, cheers
Thanks will check it out buddy
Totally wrong, check page 126.
I really like that you show the movement - enchances the experience a lot. And helps understand the battle better - keep it up =)
Much appreciated!
Thanks!!! Yer it’s a hard one to film in the moment and can be boring so the overview I think works nicely to capture the battlefield as you say! 😊
@@sn_dc You do the fast forward overview wich is superb. It captures a lot of what is going on. You don't do it later on, and I missed it ;)
Its nice to see how you moved and wheeled, to get at Your destnation and such.
Vampires are not exempt of the rules that you cannot cast spells if you wear armor
Yeah correct DC missed it as they could before
@@SNBattleReports Just swap the Flayed Hubrek onto your Vampire and put the Crown or Talisman on your Necromancer for that ward save.
Flayed hauberk can be worn by a wizard without penalty, is why it's worth 35 pts or whatever
He took the hauberk on the Necro, not the mounted Count@@chrispeplinski3783
@@chrispeplinski3783 Yup. But the necromancer can't take it, as they don't already get armour. :(
Love your work guys! Was a huge fan of the channel back when 40K was good, and now back because you are playing the best game there is!
Thanks! There is no better tabletop game! 🎉❤
Welcome back!
@@sn_dc very true! 😎
@@SNBattleReports 😍😎
Kings of War is good though... ^^*
It seems pretty clear to me you can use newly dead to take a unit of zombies beyond their starting strength, also if they are not wounded. That is literally the inly thing the newly dead does.
I enjoy your content. i appreciate how you celebrate each others successes - a wonderful example of the spirit in which to play the game.
May the hobby be the winner
Remember when Charging through Terrain it is 2d6 take the LOWEST, in addition to the -1 Movement.
Also no spells can be cast on Units in Combat unless the spell specifically says, so make sure to check spell descriptions.
Yep missed that thanks
you are able to target the unit regardless if have no wound lost with invocation(simply dont add any model if is the unit is full) and with the rules of the zombie you can add the number over the starting size . is pretty clear for me.
quote :During the Command sub-phase of their turn, if they are not engaged in combat, this character may attempt to resurrect the fallen (see page 28) by making a Leadership test (using their own Leadership). If this test is passed, a single friendly unit that has the Necromantic Undead special rule and is within 12" of this character recovers a number of lost Wounds.
the only thing required is make the ld test and have a necromantic undead to chose regardless is full or not
"Recover" as in "Recover what was lost."
@@robnoel9306 From the PDF: Invocation of Nehek: "During the Command sub-phase of their turn, if they are not engaged in combat, this
character may attempt to resurrect the fallen"
Then the zombies' Newly Dead: "When resurrecting the fallen, a unit with this special rule can
be taken beyond its starting size."
Busting out into the costume is great XD
😂
But which one was the costume 👀😂
Loving the old world content. Well done guys. Great to see
Thanks Toby!! 🙂
Thank you Toby!
Fantastic content! Immersion, passion and beautifully painted models and terrain. Subscribed!
Thanks for subbing!
Yay! DC finally got a Win! Those Bretonians are totally stunning. I guess when you're on your way back from a crusade where you just fought 3 battles it is wise to take a long rest before taking on a undead/vampire army.
Haha agreed 😆
Yay!! This begins my road of redemption - the whole gang are next for the chopping block ⚔️🩸
I had a sinking feeling when it was introduced as 3-0 vs 0-x and they are in Parravon with no pegasus knights 😭 gorgeous army paint job on the frogs though 💪 well don't coming back from disgrace to glory!
@@SNBattleReports
Pretty sure damsel wouldn't be able to dispel as she's in combat.
LOVE the old world content guys, subscribed 4 moar
Yes we got that wrong
More old world please! Really enjoy your old world bat reps
More coming!! ❤
Thanks Champ!
@@SNBattleReports got any dwarves to put on the battlefield?
@@lootnscoot50 yeah we have a report with them.
Good report. One reminder:
When you Fall Back in Good Order, you are suposed to Flee, Rally and Reform. In the Flee move, if you contact whhit a friendly unit, you pass through it and this unit has to make a Panic test (knights don't for peasants) and the pursuing unit contacts with this new unit.
Thanks a lot guys your work is fantastic
Thanks so much! Glad you enjoy it 😊
Our pleasure!
Was just looking to see if you guys had put a new battle report up yet. Keep up the great Old World bat reps!
Enjoy Boss
Excellent as usual! Keep 'em coming!
*the costume cracked me up. Nice touch haha
😂 thanks buddy
You can dispel with a character as often as you want
Correct
Great batrep. If I see VC I click Like before watching or even knowing if the video is good or not :D
Hope you enjoyed it!
@@SNBattleReports Absolutely did! Hope TOW content keeps coming
@@aaronishappy 🙌🏽 🔥
Glad you liked!! More VC coming in a campaign soon 😊
Love the reports guyz! as a note: fall back in good order is a flee and will go through your own units! (pg 134 states this as the only 2 exceptions are the length of the move and the auto-rally). So it also causes panic and might result in pursuit into a fresh enemy by accidental contact. This for the men at arms & knights turns 4 and 5.(1.33..) also no counter charge up close.
Good spot thanks
Great batrep. Consider however that you cannot countercharge if your unit is within the opposing unit's movement characteristic, like stand & shoot.
Yeah forgot about that good spot thanks boss
If I have a Character in an outer lance slot, are all the opp fighting rank considered in base contact with that character and can direct all their attacks to it?
A mystery to all! We still don’t know
:D@@SNBattleReports
great battlerep! sadly countercharge does not work if you are inside the movement characteristic of the charging unit.
Thanks and correct!
as i understand it close order counts for each unit in combat so with 2 v 1 you'd get two close order i believe DC
It's my fault in a sense that it's entirely your fault. Angle those advanced troops so that the overrun pulls them off to the side for a counter charge. Not into your cavalry
Prophetess plus sword of the quest and the familiar that lets you choose your spells. Take spectral doppelganger, use shield of the lady special rule to put her at the back and then cast spectral doppelganger in combat to absolutely hammer your enemy (Yes you can do this as shield of the lady states you may cast spells as though she were in the fighting rank.) = 2D6 Strength 5 AP-2 Multiple wounds 2.
Will look into this buddy thanks
Gross, I've been doing something similar with giving my Ogre Slaughtermaster the Skullplucker for Always Strikes First and Killing Blow
Unit rules override army rules which override base rules. So you can cast IoN on zombies to raise them past their starting point and they do not have to be wounded initially to do so as you mentioned
Interesting! Is there a page reference to the rules overriding? I mean I agree it makes sense and is silly otherwise (taking 1 wound to then bring back more) it’s just been debated so thought best to ask the community! Thanks 😊
Yeah need to see the page reference as I haven’t seen that before
I would say the rule is intended to work like it was played today as it was like that in past editions. Also it seems to be a "refined" copy paste of the Arise! rule for Khemri armies, where there is no posibility to increase the starting size of any unit.
I would apply it as it is possible to increase starting size of zombie unita. 😊
Page 28 of the Vampire Counts legacy army list, there you can find the "Resurrecting the Fallen" rule and also "the Newly Dead" rule.
Short: Units with "The Newly Dead" can be resurrected beyond starting size, units without not.@@SNBattleReports
@Gcastanera I would agree with the refined copy and paste of arise! Seems like maybe they just glazed over the wording of lost wounds, and didn't realize it's not always "lost wounds" in the case of zombies. Also, they intentionally put zombies unit sizes to be 20-40, not sure if that means they could never be brought above 40, but if it did, they most likely added that in so you can't go crazy raising zombies as high as you want and would imply they intended to allow zombies to be resurrected right away without needing to lose wounds
I've seen folks argue a paladin with Grail Vow can't join a unit of Battle Pilgrims with a Reliquae since the unit becomes unbreakable. But if deployed into it, it isn't unbreakable until after he's added, and then wouldn't he be unbreakable as well since the Reliquae gives it to the unit?
Brilliant game guys and I really like this channel. I'm very much still a fan of the hand held view - it's just a lot more immersive and you can see what's going on properly.
Thanks buddy and yes agreed! I’m not a fan of a still camera for 2 hours
Always great to see the old world
Thanks Buddy
It’s so much fun to play 😊
@@sn_dc I can't wait to try, I haven't found anyone in my area but I'll keep painting for the time being
Love to see every knight in individual heraldic colours! The noble knights and errants should not have uniform colours, and I love the exra care and details put in to make them individuals (and still find ways to tie them together as a singular force).
Thank you very much. Simon did an amazing job
@1:33:13 Did you forget to move the Units after the combat result? Looked to me like the Men at Arms might have fled through the Knights and the Skeletons Pursue into the flank of the Knights.
Yeah you are correct I think
Great stuff...thanks guys...
♥️
Love the channel the Bretonians seem to have no chance here not being able to keep things dead. :)
It felt like I killed 3,000 points 😆
Wait we weren’t playing 3,000pts??
Everyone commenting on the rules .... Im just here for pardos costume change 😅👏👍 bravo Sir Pardo
Thanks! 😃
Does anyone know where you can get the physical spell cards from please. Thank you.
Warhammer web site?
Nice batrep. Did I miss something? How can your vampire take heavy armour if they took wizard levels?
Yeah DC made a mistake got confused with past rules sorry.
In my defence, it’s what we all want to see 😂 Blood Dragons should be able to use their powers in armour! #SignThePetition
Have to ask how you made those trees?
These are custom made with real branches
@@SNBattleReports excellent, thank you!
Got to get DC a cloak. Or like a suit of Blood Dragon plate armour 🤔
NOW we’re talking ❤
And some vampire teeth 😆 superglue those bad boys in
Whats that intro?? There is no fear in the heart of a Bretonian knight guided by the Lady! They welcome the chance to prrof their honour and stop the sacrilege.
31:30 looks like the knights would not hit the bloodknights with the overrun. The dogs were angled pretty well to set up that trap, while I do enjoy not being overly nitpicky, it does take away from your tactical dog positioning if you just let them have the charge anyway. Maybe I was just an unfortunate viewing angle.
It’s a tough one as we do think we moved straight though but like you said on camera it looks a bit off. Prob just the angle thanks!
Thanks for the great content, my favourite battle reports.
😃
Pretty sure you can't take multiple spells from Lore of Undeath (it's only one you can drop from what you rolled).
Correct but in this case I did not do that (unless you’re just making a general point and not about this game), the Necro had one lore of Undeath spell and the Vamp had one 🙂 (Hellish Vigour on the Vamp and Macabre on the Vamp) full list in the description! 👍👍
@sn_dc ah I see. Forgot Curse of Years was no longer an Undeath spell.
@@thomassaxon8254 don’t worry I forgot Vampires can’t cast and wear armour anymore 😂 we’re all getting to grips with the new game 😃
You can claim a +1 combat res bonus for each unit in close order in each combat, it isn't limited to 1. You were only adding 1 when the Brets were fighting both the skeletons and blood knights. pg.153 last paragraph.
Good spot thanks! Didn’t know this
combat res is done for each unit not for the fight as a whole... you then use the best res for all units involved.@@SNBattleReports
@@justinbarnes8834 sorry I don’t understand this Justin. I’ve never done it like that what page is this on
Pleaase state wot pg number that rule is on @@justinbarnes8834
Arent undead unbreakable? Do they still fall back?
You cannot cast hex spells into combat unless your spell says otherwise (Page 108)
Did we do this?
Pretty sure curse of years was cast on the Duke while he was in combat. Unless I just zoned out, and think that's what happened. I don't have the time stamp handy
@@greystrangr Indeed at 58.30, duke was engaged with the skellies and was hexed by Curse of years, which is not possible.
ok i have to give it to him, Mr Pardo's eagle chainmail was pretty sick. my personal highlight tho, when i caught myself wondering how many 2s can a guy objectively roll in a row..stunning #DCdoingthework #somany2s
😂 🙌🏽
You shouldn’t have counter charge against the hippo lord by the blood knights as he was within his move distance so too close.
Correct!
Good battle, the Brettonians look great.
Thanks Buddy!!
What exactly gives you the combo of paladin with pilgrims?
With the Grail Vow makes them Immune to Psychology and Unbreakable
Watching your new battle is like living the dream 😂❤️
Keep up the good work boys 👊🏽❤️
If you want to win, you really have to be more mindful of where you put your units. Your Direwolves were a free springboard to make it easy for the knights to charge your Blood Knights.
Well he did win 😂
If I may please make a suggestion, use a different set of dice for combat res.
To help avoid error's caculating.
Hey buddy, what would the difference be with different dice?
Easier to track and see and avoid's picking them up to roll by accident and then miscalculating @@SNBattleReports
@@KiwiOddity but we are not rolling when calculating right?
Actually DC picks up the wound dice to roll for his hits on a few occasions and Pardo reminds him of those wounds, inc those that were regen'd @@SNBattleReports
58:43
You can not cast hex into combat (If spell itself does not allow it)
You do not have to have LOS for hexes and enchantments (just front arc)
When you will do another battle rep, I would love some dark elves!
Thanks for the pointer we sadly though don’t have Dark Elves
How are the view counts on these amazing old world vids ?
The Old World is for sure our most popular videos! 😊
Doubling 40K and Heresy views
How complicated is this game to learn for someone coming from SW legion and song of ice & fire?
It’s ok once you actually play the game about 3/4 times but definitely more intricate than the other games likes 40K
Isn't a Necromancer a healer who took the saying "better late than never" way too far?
😂😂😂 so true
See never leave home without Blood knights
Agreed ahaha
Every time you use the Sceptre of De Noirot you are supposed to roll a D6 and take a wound on a 1. You forgot this!
Can I check please. 35min 52secs. You roll a 4, so 8inch total charge. That’s a 6 block wide unit on 25mm bases. It would take 9inches just simply wheel 90degrees to face the knights. Even if you stopped short on the wheel and ‘closed the door’ with a free align, you’d not have enough to cover the distance to make contact, which looked to be 5/6inches.
He doesn’t need to wheel 90 degrees. Only enough to make contact when he goes forward. So thats maybe a couple of inches at the most.
You can’t surely think thats how the movement works? Nothing would ever get into combat!
@@idiotproofdalek rules state you measure a wheel from the outside edge / furthest point that travels. RB page 124. Hence the maths I’ve detailed out for the unit in question.
Charge states you must measure and include the wheel to endeavour to bring as many models into contact. Page 126.
It’s overlooked, but it’s hard to get a big wheel off and still complete a charge.
Why I highlighted it. How do you think it’s meant to work?
Please reference RB pages and paragraphs. Keen to see where I’m wrong.
The game mechanic is designed like this to stop a full 90deg turn basically into a charge. Side on side units getting flank charges off. Also why you can’t just turn and charge.
@@idiotproofdalek again. RB page 126, wheel to endeavour to bring as many into contact. So that’s a hefty wheel still at such a steep angle, then, even with just a couple inches as you say, he’d have only brought a model or two into contact, not the whole unit as he did in the bat rep. Yes a free wheel to align, but that’s not to be used to get more in contact. That’s just to straighten up.
Wheel is movement expensive. It’s an arch measurement. Do some measuring for yourself with a tray of 5 wide etc. I’ve been drawn it out on CAD to check.
are you going to create member only batreps for Ow?
Yes sir!
OLD WORLD MAKES THE DREAM WORK
Thanks 😊
Every time magic Alf! 🎉
@@SNBattleReports small thing you cant countercharge the duke you are within his movement distance ;)
First turn shooting; Pardo rolled a lot of dice. You can't move and volley fire per Volley Fire rules on Pg.180.
I see this being done a lot, because for some reason GW tends to end with the exception rather than doing the sensible thing and leading with it and people tend not to read the whole thing and miss the exception/s.
I'm guilty of this myself and once only half-read a rule for my Legio in AT that had me (inadvertently) cheat my way to 2nd place in a tournament. Did think it sounded a bit good (I did fess up to the TOs when I realised btw).
Thanks for the pointer! Yer were all guilty of skim reading rules haha we always try our best to keep it as close to the rules as possible - never easy with a camera in hand and a bunch of armies to remember haha 😊
Perfect thanks forgot about that good spot. And agreed Gw always out the important bits at the end 😆
I think your channel has the best old world battle reports, at least from what i've watched so far 😅
I just wonder, why so much negativity on comments 😢
I used to play warhammer fantasy with vampire counts army a long time ago, i made a list for old world for fun
VC players list has some issues with character items as others mentioned
It kinda sucks you cant use lance on charging then magical weapon, didnt catch that when reading the rules
Keep up the good work guys!
You cannot use a wizardly dispel if the wizard is in combat
Correct sir
No Hauberk for the Necro. A character must be able to equip the mundane equivalent to buy the magic armour. Yes the Hauberk allows spell casting but this is a reference for the Vamps who want to wear it.
You’re right you know! That sucks but good to know thanks for heads up 👍
A great bat rep, well produced, thank you for sharing.
Great job ;) Nice cosplay ^^
Thank you! 😄
He wears to to the shops!
Hope you'll get a nice outfit too for your TOW Batrep, Phil ;-)
🤫🤣🤣🤣🤣@@MisterCorback
falling back in good order doenst make you lose the blessing, its not considered fleeing
that includes stubborn
But I did flee didn’t I?
there is no thing like "i dont need more zombies" no real necromancer ever said that :P
#factoftheday
Nice report, as always.
Still feel a little bit too much the introduction because the explanation of the armies seems repetitive when the deployment is explaned (saying again which unita the army have).
Apart from that little thing. I love how you guys make your videos and had a lot of fun viewing all your Old world reports. ❤
Thanks for the feedback! We typically go over the units to indicate where they are deployed, but you’re right sometimes we re-introduce them a bit too much! Probably because of the time difference from doing the intro’s to starting the game etc haha glad you enjoyed! 😊
Good feedback thanks
The double 5s was not perils?
Would be on double 6 or 1
There is a spell or magic item that does that I think, maybe Infernal puppet from Chaos? Can’t recall 😊
Remember that the 2nd unit the over-ran should have only moved directly forward, it would have hit the skeleton boys 😮
Yeah we went directly forward and clipped the Dragons right?
Probably just the camera angle I saw then 😊
Also, so much cooler going into the Blood Knights! 🩸⚔️ haha
Are you Polish with white eagle on red background coat of arms :)?
Yes Polish armour
Cool. I am from Poland too :).
I don’t think you can use a lance and then swap to a magic item.
Correct. You would have to use the magic sword, even on the charge.
EDIT: The Dreadlance is also a magical weapon. So it actually works. :)
Both are Magic Weapons so as per rules I’m sure it’s fine
Model can only purchase one magic item from each category thus implying you cannot have two magic weapons?
@@touchthesky632you can, the "*" objects can be spammed 😊
Great content, please keep up TOW content chaps 👏
Thanks! Will do!
That luck attacking with the duke with hatred! WTH!
Haha crazy
You cant dispel while in combat
You sure I didn’t use a free dispell? If not sorry
Woah Polish knight costume. Nice one Pardo 😆 now i need to be cheering for the Bretonians
Woooo!! I didn’t know it was based off a Polish Knight, very cool 😊
If someone is wearing a costume you root for them always! It’s a rule 😆
Are the Bretonnians immune to psychology? If not you forgot the fear tests I think. They have to take the test each round in combat, not just once.
He didn’t outnumber me many times we do mention it a few times
Fear only works when a unit is of a higher unit strength now. So you need to have 1) Fear 2) higher unit strength
So they didn’t care much for my lowly skeletons haha
If you have a magical weapon, you ca never choose to use a mundane one - meaning that if you buy a magic weapon, you cannot start the fight with a mundane lance. Page 338 for magic weapons, though the lance rules also specify you must use a hand weapon after first turn, not just any other weapon :)
They are both magical weapons though
@@SNBattleReports oooh, I misunderstood. Carry on :D
You have to use the same weapon throughout the whole combat, the exception is that lances say you switch to hand weapon after the first turn. So you'd have to choose to not use the lance first turn if you want to use another weapon at all in the combat.@@nemo-no-name @snBattleReports I'm also dubious to taking two magic weapons
Interesting point but I came across the fact you can take ‘very common’ magic items in the same category, as it’s a magically lance that states you can only use it in the first turn, stands to reason you then use your next weapon
@@sn_dc If you had two magical weapons, you can pick which one to use.
That said, I don't think this is a very important rule point, I say go for funnest approach. I just pointed it out because I thought you took regular Lance and magical weapon.
I don’t play Old World (yet), but I’m surprised you could do so well without a high lvl wizard in the list. Magic seems kinda OP in games I’ve watched.
For some armies it’s stable for others it’s not
Ah! Makes sense. I probably just haven’t seen enough factions yet. Thanks! Great bat rep btw 👍
Glad you enjoyed!! 😊
Why do i have a magical sword on my damsel? Points left! Why don't my paladins have magical gear? No points left!😂
The paladins have magical sword and always prefer the lance on the horse paladin
I also Explain why I like it on the Damsel 😉
Really nice batrep! I guess the canon apocalypse was thrown into the sea to cure the curse?
Ps: don't use the "white flag" expressions when playing Bret please. As a French, it deeply hurts my feelings 😂
Hahaha! 🏳️
For the Red Duke!
I have that old model ❤❤
🔥
1999 was a very good year.
Love to see VCs! Remember that Wizards cant cast spells if the wear armour :)
You’re right there, why did I think he could? They used to be able to in previous editions right 😅
@@sn_dcold editions vampires were an exception to the rule.
Does this mean…. 😯
For the Newly dead interaction its such a kerfuffle between the language of the three rules involved: invocation of Nehek, resurrecting the fallen, and Newly dead. IoN referenceing resurrecting the fallen in the first bit then mentions the unit it targets recovers "lost wounds", then the bullets below just say recover wounds, nothing about them needing to be "lost wounds."
The language just seems poor the way i see you can target a unit to recover lost wounds (doesnt say you have to target a unit with lost wounds just a unit within command range) then, when consulting the bullets below it simply states to recover wounds based on level etc.
Resurecting the fallen also sort of connects recovering lost wounds with ressurecting the fallen as if they are the same thing. Also "Lost wounds" isnt defined so you could also argue that if a unit can be ressurected beyond starting size it would perpetually have lost potential unit size there for has lost wounds.
Anyways, i think they just messed up on the language and need to Errata/FAQ but its legacy so who knows if the ever will
The Zombies special rule overwrites the spell limits. Otherwise the rule is useless. Really, it is rather simple.
@@mitchcowan1446 yes the Newly dead rule overwrites the limit to resurrecting mentioned in "resurrecting the fallen." What I think DC is unsure of is that Invocation of Nehek says pick a unit to "recover a number of lost wounds." And if zombies haven't lost wounds how could they recover lost wounds. But like I said, the next part of IoN simply says recover wounds, and the part that targets a unit doesn't say it has to be a unit with lost wounds, it should be fine
Great points both, it’s as you say above an issue with their phrases - as Comulin states it’s the ‘lost wounds’ that I and others pick up as the conflicting rule with Newly Dead. I’ll play it as it should be from now on though 😊
It really comes down to what the intention they had making the rules for newly dead. It only matters for vampire counts, which is an lagacy faction, so it may just be that they were trying to keep the language the same as tomb kings arise which is supported and it conflicts with how newly dead should work and they didn't realise. There is definitely a lot of effort put into the legacy factions but I feel like there wasn't as much proofreading because there are a number of other things that are likely not intended to be that way. Like thw stegadons giant bow doesn't have through and through keyword so it's not a bolt thrower anymore just a single shot
Can’t counter-charge when the enemy is close
Correct only within a certain range
Dukes have WS 7, so that challenge would have ended a little differently.
Correct they do! But he also had Curse of Years on him for -1 to his WS 👍
Exactly
@@sn_dc Ah, that makes sense.
Overrun doesn't apply if a unit is destroyed by crumbling
That‘s interesting Jim! Any chance you got a page number to reference as I can’t see it myself
Hey buddy can you send us the page number for this? Thanks 🙏🏽
Yeh Overrun is only if the unit is destroyed before the break test phase, p156, doesn't seem to interact well with undead models as they often crumble in the break test phase
@@ed8930 Unstable specifically happens before the break test see p. 180 "These Wounds are lost after combat results have been calculated but before Break tests are made". So you can still overrun against undead if they all crumble to death.
@@guillaumedubos6596 good to know thanks
Kudos to the vc army from another vc army owner! 🧟
🙌🏽
Very bad rules interaction with the Paladin in Battle Pilgrims.
Unbreakable units can't be joined by characters without it.
BP don't have it unless a Grail vow is within 12''. Given that it would be impossible for a Grail Vow to join the unit mid battle there's a solid argument for them not being able to be deployed together as well.
It gets worse of course. You can deploy a character without the Grail Vow within the unit. Then, during play the BP could go within 12'' of a grail vow. Making the unit unbreakable.....but the character who isn't unbreakable is already in the unit.....the rules only forbid them joining.
They've not addressed the issues yet. But it's entirely possible that a character in a unit that becomes unbreakable switches it off.
The Paladins vow allows him to join a peasant unit, and the Relique provides unbreakable/immune to psych if a character or unit with the Grail vow is wothin 12", and the Paladin may have that. If not, maybe the Duke was nearby? If not, then yes, wouldn't have that rule
@@mitchcowan1446 it's not about the vow. Unbreakable units can't be joined by characters who don't have unbreakable.
The vow is irrelevant.
Ok so the way I see this is that the Grail Reliquae is the equivalent of a ready made magic banner/musician model and the unit itself are the battle pilgrims (because you can get a unit of battle pilgrims without the reliquae). My point is since the Paladin has the Virtue that allows him to join the unit he would do so and then benefit from a purchased upgraded. This would be no different to a normal unit getting a magic banner that made the unit unbreakable. Ergo A paladin with the virtue of empathy can join a Battle Pilgrim unit which has paid for the Grail Reliquae upgrade.
So personally if you start in it they don’t have unbreakable until he joins so that’s fine. BUT! If he leaves he can’t join again as will be within measurement of making them Unbreakable
@@SNBattleReports Hello from New Zealand! Fellow Welshie here, love you guys. Thanks heaps for replying, can't wait to hear what you think on my deeper thoughts!
Bear with me. I've put a lot of thought into this particular hole and want to try to be comprehensive.
Personally I was writing a special army list with this combo as the thematic centre before I came across the issue and the more I thought the more it didn't work.
Whilst I totally see what you're saying and I would be in the 'just do it' camp cos I'd want to see it and it's cool, it doesn't hold water.
I do think right now it's fairly clear that it can't be done. The fact that it's an upgrade doesn't really matter. The upgrade is on the unit. If the upgrade was a banner being held by the Paladin then he wouldn't be able to join them, so why is it ok the other way?
You're basically saying that the unit off the table doesn't have any keywords yet but if that's the case it causes far more problems! If the Paladin was a unit upgrade too, then yes. He's a part of the unit. Or if there is an exception...please see Empire Flagellants. (Forces of Fantasy p61 - Fanatical Zeal.)
Even if you look past all that, allowing it to happen makes an issue of if it blocks Unbreakable from the unit or not I'd say that Stubborn would be the rule to compare it to, given it's basically an upgrade of it. There it indicates that a character without Stubborn can't use it when within a unit that is Stubborn.....
Yep, a whole new problem!! Thanks GW.... Is this saying the unit can act Stubborn/Unbreakable but the character can't? So they have to roll and might behave in a different way?
Right now.....yeah kinda. Should it be? Probably not. If you're falling on probably too then you're full circle and can say with additional confidence that once the Reliquae is purchased no character without unbreakable should be in there....for any reason. The unit should be considdered Unbreakable at all times but it just can't be used with not within 12'' of a Grail Vow. That would clear it up!
So whilst I'd totally just let you do it and give the Paladin Unbreakble just for ease and fun. You can't be putting it in videos and spreading the use of the combo. At least not till they fix it in favour of it.
@@azdavies87 I still think we are right so it’s really two different opinions. Right now nobody else has said anything which is weird if it was like this. Let’s see if anybody else picks it up.
You need to take casualties away before you count your rank bonus.
Yeah of course boss
@@SNBattleReports Sorry if it came across as mean, not trying to be its just one of thpse niche things that can really swing a fight one way or anotger especially with horde rules
@@malekiththeeternityking5433 yeah didn’t at all buddy but I’m sure we always did that didn’t we?
@@SNBattleReports You're all good dude, love your content especially the WHF stuff
I see Bretonnia
I click
For the Lady!
Simple isn’t it! 🔥