Gas engineer or cowboy, looking at common combi boiler faults found when servicing or repairing.
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- Опубликовано: 23 янв 2023
- Derek in this video takes a look at the common faults found on combination boilers when serving or repairing them and seeing if the boiler has been installed by a gas engineer or a none registered installer.
Unfortunately, in my experience, I see too many of these problems that are down to GSR installers, even very experienced ones! Sad but true, despite years of mandatory regulation and the ease of downloading up to date information,it's too common in the industry.
Great video very useful . Saddly I come across these faults on a daily basis that are down to registered and non registered installers.
I do find that some of the installations we are called back to, are carried out by the sub contractors our company use .I think it's because our company are not policing there quality of work, and I think they get a fixed price for the install . Also the survey is carried out over the phone, using video link with the customer being asked to move around the house.the surveyor is not a technical type person.so he sells the boiler on what the customer shows him .and we find time is tight .so the sub contractors are up against it straight away. And that's where the problem lies .
Either that or they just don't take pride in doing the job correctly.
Yet again a very important and informative video.
Gas engineers do do some of the faults mentions, but i think its down to cost and ppl under cutting jobs
I would like to think gas engineers don’t cut corners because of price but I know what you mean
@@tomkatgastraining They do and part L compliance is going to be a major issue! Time constraints on boiler swaps are the main reason and lack of proper system water assessment and rectification add to the problem.
great explanations! A boiler is only as good as its install.
I think the installs are a mix. NGSR AND GSR engineers, competetive pricing i feel has also brought standards down. People will go for the cheaper option who most likely wont sign the benchmarks and don't put effort and care into the installs such as filters, limescale reducers, check valve on condense if needed etc.
Some customers understand you shouldn't go cheap on the install for these reasons (likely because they had an issue in the past with an installer) though most still won't want to pay for a full powerflush even when i tell them their warranty could be voided.
Brilliant Derek, much rather watch your videos whilst the Mrs watches Titanic for the 100th time. Saved my butt many times with your in-depth informative videos. Big thank you !
Great video, nailed on the head with them faults, not sealed round the flue and undersized gas pipe seems to be the most common I find, I think if pricing was standardised with installs it’d might help but then again people would still rush to get it installed faster and onto the next
Thank you Derek great video 👍
A lot of people's first thought when asking for the MI is this guy doesn't know what he is doing,I always feel I have to justify myself to the client and over explain the reason I need it and I think for that reason some engineers just don't ask ,other option is download it on your phone then it looks like you are distracting your self away from the job you are being paid to do .
You can't bloody win 🤪
I always ask for it and say if I don’t write in the service section then your warranty is void they soon go running for it 😜
@@tomkatgastraining top tip 👍
Awesome thanks so much for your efforts 😊. Typically find many of these very problems daily . .. frustrating to say the least
Thank you for your time absolutely perfect 👍
thanks for reply ,thats food for thought as someone i know has just moved into a new build and no filter is fitted,and i dare bet the whole estate will be the same.
They just come out with it wasn’t regs when the estate was passed off and they don’t care because they only give 2 years warranty on the boilers
Yes Definitely most cases not Registered Gas Engineers,
Gas leaks and poor flue insulations would be the most common problem I would see,
Great video today 👍👍🤜
Eye opener 👍🏼
Replaced a Boiler over the Xmas, new year period. Obsolete fan! Installed a Vokera 25C with built in timer. Yes customer didn't want to spend. The system had an existing Honeywell wired room-stat installed. Spent at least half an hour discussing programmable room thermostat options. The bloke went into the other room, chatted with his wife then return, saying no we'll keep what we've got. Managed to talk him into have a filter though. It's hard work, when your hands are tied.
Just remember you are putting your name to an install that doesn’t comply with the building regs and boiler plus but you are issuing a compliance certificate I bet the customer would say the engineer never told us we had to but I know how hard it is and people don’t have the money but we should still comply
@@tomkatgastraining Yes Derek I totally agree. They had me on the day, I'm afraid, frustrating.
Install weather comp, gets you boiler plus, just don't tell them 😅
Fire rated expansion foam is fine to use to seal the gap in between the flue and the wall and the flue has been screwed together. Usually cover up the foam with the collars to keep it neat.
thats a better idea than cement as that cracks, even go over it with silicon and collar to cover it.
Only if MIs say it is suitable
Check manufacturers instructions
Everyone misses one of the most common problems. The CUSTOMER. Always looking for the cheapest price so engineers have to cut lots of corners to try win work and stay competitive. It’s no excuse for dangerous gas work but I totally get horrendous looking pipework. Customers constantly try to squeeze every penny they can back. Flushing getting completely ignored. One boiler off one on in half a day. I get it though the cost of living has put massive strain on everyone.
That’s a great excuse for negligent work (blame the victim) - I wonder if GasSafe would accept it - not that they are at all interested in quality.
If the Gas Safe Register was actually proactive in policing installs and standards rather than maximising income, then I could take it seriously. How many Gas Safe registrants have been sanctioned by the organisation over the last ten years.
Can you clarify the filling loop issue. Surely it doesn't matter whether the double check valve is on the cold pipe or the return. When the system is being filled the backflow prevention is there in either case. (But it can be more convenient to have the standard valve on the heating side for draining purposes).
The seals in the none return valve are only designed for cold water not heating water so they will fail and if you have left the hose connected it could pass heating water into the cold
great video
The plug top fuse protects the cable going to the boiler which is often not rated for 13A. There should be another fuse inside the boiler protecting the board.
Just had a new Worcester Bosch system boiler fitted. He had to come back six times to correct his faults - cement the flue inside, find electrical fault, fill in the benchmark and lag the condensate pipe outside etc. He was recommended by Worcester Bosch. I spoke to WB technical who said he had never seen an 35mm pipe freeze in his ten years as an engineer. My 42mm washing machine hose froze. I am an ex gas safe engineer and have been doing plumbing and heating for over 50 years. How can one tell a good engineer until they have finished the job. Very disappointing.
Worcester only require to seal flue external although best practice to seal both internal and external quick question where do you get 35mm pipe and 42 mm washing machine hose do you live in a hotel as your washing machine must be fucking massive to have 42mm discharge 😂 typical old fanny ‘iv been in plumbing and heating for 50 years is that why 90 percent of existing heating system in the uk are absolutely wank and electrical fault was it existing or did he create it ? If youve been in the trade for 50 years why did it take him 6 times to resolve all issues as your clearly so experienced you could have gave him a snagging list snags al done within 1 visit silly old hector 😂
Waste pipes are either 32mm or 40mm are you confused? Rarely have I ever seen people lag 40mm waste pipes so your saying a 40mm kitchen sink pipe needs to be lagged on they outside? I don't think so.
@@bobby5634 The washing machine hose is a normal one which goes into a inch and a half plastic pipe to the outside. This pipe DID freeze so I put a 2 inch pipe on the inside of my kitchen and out through the wall into the gully. I now takes the DW and WM and has never froze since.
I comply to WB instructions which say the 35mm pipe should be lagged through the wall and down outside to the gully.( may I suggest you take a look at them) There were 2 plumbers and the main one left a 20 year old person to do the job while he when away and they started at 11olock.
He returned at about 4 pm and worked until 7pm. The boiler was working but would only work with hot water on constant. I was asked for payment the nest day.
I informed them of the problem and they said they would return the next week of which they did. They also had to extend the condensate pipe outside to the gully. They had only partially filled the inside flue with cement and left a big gap of which I asked them to fill. When they returned they could not find the fault but said they would return after they had spoken to Honeywell. 2 weeks later they returned , done the cement around the flue inside, extened the condensate pipe and found the electrical fault to be a broken wire of which they had caused. They left but I found they had not filled in the Benchmark book. So they said they would return of which they did one week later and it took them 10 minutes. I have 9 rads so asked them to put in 2 tubs of inhibitor but they only used one.
I don’t like to look at other peoples work as they were recommended by WB but they had to keep coming back so I lost trust in them. I then found they had not lagged the condensate pipe outside so once again they had to come back to do this job. I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO CHECK THEIR WORK. Every time they returned the gave an appointment between 8am and 1pm or 1pm and 5pm.
You are very quick to criticise older fitters and I wonder why? Hmmm. I did not ask them to lag the condensate pipe through the wall as instructions state. Hope you can UNDERSTAND all this young man.
@@shaunconnor7525
@@bobby5634 Take a look at Tomkats video of lagging the condensate pipe where he states one should also lag kitchen waste pipes.
Stressed engineers forced to do 2 boiler swaps a day
Thanks Derek,
Thomas Bradwell
Get a mix of those issues more so on Eco Scheme / Grant Scheme installs...
British gas install my combi but never filled the paper work at the back of the installation manual and i have my boiler serviced every year and some engineers spend 45 mins servicing and others spend 20 mins and very rarely fill anything in in the last 11 year iv had 3 service papers
I'm an electrician and never mess about with gas or gas appliances apart from connecting up the electricity supply for a boiler, but your video seems like basic safety to me, and yes I have seen some of the scenarios you have highlighted!
Very common to forget to put the flue test caps back on after service or gas safety check . We have 1000s property on the books and it quite regular occurrence . Also cost of replacement by manufactures is extortionate
That flue out of the open window was genuinely funny. There’s a lot I will do as a diy’er but gas boilers are not something I go near. I’m not trained and I don’t have the tools. That being said the bloody cowboy who did the wiring stuck it behind the hot water tank. What was he thinking?
Thanks for good information please tell me if gas pipe need more then 15mm then why is boiler have 15mm Connection
Its all about getting the volume of gas to the appliance inlet- irrespective of the connection size on the gas valve. Gas pressure at the inlet point is key for correct combustion. If you had metres of 15mm gas supply then the resistance of flow over the distance of pipe may not give the same pressure at the end of the pipe - basic physics..
If there already is a CO alarm next to the boiler. Would the installer have to provide and fit additional one on a new installation. Check if in date and works assumed
I didn’t realise there were so many boilers being installed by non registered installers.
Thank you , there are things to save money on but gas safety is not one of them .
What's the issue with it being a switched socket? Is that really a problem? Mines on a switched socket. Has been for years. Second question, are you saying inhibitor degrades over the years? Should it be topped up annually? Thanks!
If it’s not double pole and you just use the switch to turn off the boiler you could get election through the neutral. Every 5 years the inhibitor should be completely replaced
As far as I can see boiler servicing now is simply a visual check. It used to be a more thorough check and replacing the water filter on the cold water inlet. British Gas tell me it is my problem to change the water filter, and I haven't a clue. Money for old rope.
Hello Derek,
I went for gas boiler service and after three months I was told by my employer that I left the flue cap open and co alarm went off and the customer called the ES and they reported RIDDOR, three months back I don't remember anything, I can't say yes or no, on record yes I been to the property for service but I don't remember everything, how serious is this, now the flue cap is accessible to everyone and it's outside the boiler, I am really stressed about it, I always try to do things correctly but this one is hard to say, what do you think?
If it was three months ago why haven’t gas safe contacted you. If an engineer is riddor then the HSE pass it on to gas safe to investigate asap. I hope it gets sorted for you soon but ask your employer what they have been told and by who.
are new builds exempt from mag filter install?
Nope
?? Does internal pipework have to be insulated ie runs along wall to rads. Can't see the point and look terrible.
Wow, heat pumps seem like a lot less hassle!
Why the no switched socket always wondered?
If it’s a single pole switch and you just turned it off at the switch and didn’t remove the plug you could get electrocuted
@@tomkatgastraining googling single pole switches. Thanks
Insulating the pipework in the thermal envelope of the building will reduce the overall surface area of the system and mean hotter flow temperatures would be necessary. Someone at regs not been doing their homework.
👌👍
🤘😎🤘
What about the angle of the flue... asking for a friend
Can I angle the flue upwards towards outside?
I've just had a combi boiler fitted to replace the old heat only boiler, I'm no gas safe guy but was in the industrial door game for years and allot of the building regs ect cover allot in any trade, he was gas safe who did it and used the immersion heater for power yet he never fitted a 3amp fused spare i told him his answer was the boiler has a fuse and the fuse box covers it and thats 16amp fuse , i said the best fuse there is the cable connected to the boiler as that will melt first so he put a fuse spare on also the 40yr old rose that was on the immersion heater that connected house wires to the tank immersion heater was damaged so all the 240v was showing and it was at chest height inside the cupboard were the cistern used tobe, he said that's staying lol wtf i said , i ended up putting a box on that, think is he must of lied on the form filled in as it had tobe done for building regs and warranty, i checked inside the rubber gasket around the flu and its not been cemented when watching this vid, there's was other bits that was an issue but i did that as it was nothing major but had him back a few times on the stuff i could of done but thought sod this that could be seen under warranty claim i even fit the timer on the wall as he said its too near electric,, even so i wasn't happy with missing stuff like that and we know him, i asked about the inhibitor about topping up ect he said its for life in a sealed system and he only flushed system the day after it was running, I've got a magnaclean ill just top it up every year at least it will save me a few quid, oh and underneath the pipes are not insulated but it is inside house were the hot water tank was, and the condensate pipe outside is not insulated but its a 35mm pipe
You fitted doors and thats the same as gas and electricity 😂😂😂😂😂 since ‘its all the same building regs’ talk me through how you would fit a boiler start to finish how would you carry out let by and how long is a tightness test ? Do you even know how to solder ? Guarantee youve went only like picked some shite company for cheapest price you can find and now you want to moan about it
@@shaunconnor7525 no the the regs on electric are the same no matter what you don't have tobe gas safe ect it all narrows down too the same i,e low/high volts ect and if you think industrial doors is below you lol you have no clue , and no i didn't go cheapest quote don't talk crap , mother could of had this done free via grant as we wanted to not have theses issues, like i said the person who did it we have used for years and now the son is doing it, laugh is you say i moan but allot of people would of not seen theses issues and it was mentioned
@14:40 you say that a combi boiler has to have a minimum of 22mm gas supply from the meter up to where the manufacturer makes its connection. I believe this is incorrect. There are many manufacturers out there that stipulate that as long as you are within the permissable drop from meter - appliance with all gas appliances operating at maximum then upsizing a gas supply is not required. I have just looked through a particular manufactures instructions and it does not say anywhere that the gas supply MUST be in 22mm. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Yeh you are wrong no new condensing boiler will work on 15mm pipe correctly and the instructions in most new boilers say the pipe must be sized in accordance with the regulations.
@@tomkatgastraining could you tell me where in the regulations it states all combi boilers MUST be in 22mm gas supply.
@@mtbskidmark9234 if you are a gas engineer you should know that a combi boiler will not work at the correct readings fed by a 15mm pipe. The ACS assessment has even been changed to now have pipe sizing in it for guys like you if you are a gas engineer who don’t keep up to date with the regulations.
@Tomkat Gas Training sorry excuse my ignorance but you didn't answer my question, where in the regs does it say a combi boiler MUST be fed by a 22mm gas supply ? asking for a friend .
@@mtbskidmark9234 get your friend to ask me then
Please enlighten me where it states that a gas supply has to be a minimum of 22mm diameter connecting to a combination boiler? Let’s work on facts not what your personal thoughts are
He can't cause it don't exist
Just been told that gas safe want to do my inspection……. ON LINE…… WTF. If i watch somebody at work i can tell that they know what they’re doing.
Hi dereck
Ive seen a massive drop in breakdown calls now
Too many are ripping out boilers as its more profitable than repairs
Plus they are telling customers parts no longer available when they are
Once on 10 year warrenty wipes out all breakdowns
It's a nightmare
Never agreed with long warranty’s I think 5 years should be the maximum
@@tomkatgastraining yes pal it's killing industry, guys here are getting very desperate.
The story's I hear are unbelievable
@ 6:44 2 me that only shows that the manufacture has used substandard grade materials;... unable 2 withstand the product of combustion...
Manufacturers can not produce a product that isn’t fit for purpose
@@tomkatgastraining well they patently do, so why did Baxi develop a paint system that is uv resistant?
@@johnward5006 because their flues were not installed correctly
@@tomkatgastraining Air tubes are always going to be at risk of corrosion due to atmospheric condensation and rainwater ingress.
Explain how not all air tubes are allowed to be exposed and others are. It's not all down to installers and they are not all unregistered or incompetent! The truth is , most metal air tubes are cheap and nasty!
There can be NO justification for manafactures supplying rubbish, it's indefensible, full stop!!
@@johnward5006 we all know boiler flues are rubbish you can crush an ideal flue getting it out or the box. All flues are tested that no flue should let rain into the flue system under normal conditions. You know and I know a vast majority of flues are installed incorrectly ie putting a fall on the flue on a standard flue length when the fall is built into the flue.
Out of 9 gas engineer only one good one, british gas engineer subcontractor who install bosch Worcester junior 24i & service the boiler........it or pot luck with independent gas engineers.
Derek, Your obviously old school, but you already know the vast majority of Gas Safe engineers have not a clue about either installing, servicing or fault finding. All and any tested involved done by local authorities are now down to a timing of 45 minutes / dwelling which could involve a cooker and a gas fire yet most councils know it cannot be done, but all they want is signed off tickets. Pipe sizing / meter sizing and gas rating is something that is done on the moon as far as must are concerned. Once a bus driver / painter, 6 months later a qualified gas engineer on paper and plastic and most have no system or electrical knowledge at all. You will find that all the old mud men from the old gasboards now have a suits and a tie, company car, now working for Gas Safe admin and couldn't give a monkeys until they have too.
I'm sure it's gas engineers that have under cut others to get the job. Also no matter what it'll be a small minority that are just plain lazy.
Last week serviced a brand new vaillant and I was unable to remove the condensate as there was pipework blocking it from being removed.
At the end of the day. If you value your self and the trade no matter how much we get pieved with continuous changes in the industry. If you do the job correctly then you'll always sleep well😂
Can you show where it says that combis should have a minimum of 22mm
Cut a nice core hole out and then make a mess getting compo all over a white wall. What a balls up. You will probably find that most of these installations are by gas safe engineers. Just because someone is qualified it doesn’t mean they are not capable of screwing up. Some of the gas safe work I’ve seen on my jobs is bloody shocking.
This is why they shouldn't be indoors
Excellent Tom cat i am engineer and yes I always over look filling loop will keep my eye out now 😀