Very well done!!!. If I had DMs with Elon and team, I HIGHLY recommend your take on pushing FSD. Surely, they hear you. Keep pushing it. I'm 63 and I will surely need FSD to maintain my independence. THX Grandpa M.I.K.E.
I'm 73, loving FSD 12.5 for most of my driving. I bought my Model 3 because of FSD and the independence it will give me in 10 or 15 years when I start getting old.
Another channel also had FSD 12.5 try to bypass a Road Closed barricade. It doesn't appear that FSD can read and interpret most signs, other than stop or speed limit. That's a key need. No one would pass a driving test without that ability (lest they go off a failed bridge). Gotta be able to handle closed roads, detours, school zones with hours, days, flashing lights or when children present, other critical instructions that a human would understand. May be approaching the long tail, though.
It's incredibly exciting to watch FSD progress so rapidly. I appreciate your approach of pushing the technology while maintaining a critical eye 👍. Unfortunately, as a Tesla owner in Italy, I haven't had the opportunity to experience it firsthand. I'm eagerly awaiting its availability here🤞.
12:50 yea thats a Google Maps thing, that's why I was really happy to hear, that they might do their own maps and go away from Google. Plus Fleet to Fleet communications will come in either 12.5.x or 12.6
Elon said communicating road closures to the fleet coming in 12.6 I think they might fix autoparking at the end of the drives differently than it is fixed right now (it might be part of the actual stack) Autoparking is hardcoded for now but when it will do it automatically it will need to read signs (disabled parking only, pickup only etc) and have other features.
5:34 it tried to reverse to park in the spot again! I'm telling you with a flip of a switch FSD will be able to autopark. edit: i see you mentioned that
In my opinion, at the 4:55 scenario, it maybe sees the detour ahead sign, so it knows it's probably gonna be a detour, but at that location, they didn't have the arrow sign like it was at 4:11. At least that is my best guess :D
Thanks for making these videos. Although it seems to struggle with construction, it's still quite impressive everywhere else. Do you think the software/map navigation knew there was a stop light where you had to hit the brakes? Or does this software only go off what it sees as you drive? Hope the question makes sense. I'm getting my first Tesla on Monday. Very excited
It's an interesting video and indeed hopefully they will make some changes to that kind of signs. I think we are very surprised what the robotaxi will do at the time with no driver?
13:05 First time I've ever seen FSD miss a red light. Normally it stops at yellows! 😅 Can you tell if it saw the light as red on your screen when rewatching the footage? Hard to tell on my tiny phone screen. Good reminder for everyone that it's still called FSD supervised for a reason. The detours dont bother me because it seems to just be a case of simply not being a scenario they've bothered to train it on yet. It will obviously be addressed at some point and in the mean time, road closed signs are easy for the human supervisor to see and take over. Missing the red light is much more concerning in my opinion.
Same here. Literally never experienced that once. Which is why I wanted to try it again. It seemed to show the red lights on the display the whole time. Which makes no sense
So I'm a complete newbie to Tesla. I just bought a 2024 Y four days ago. I'm still learning the basics on FSD. I did the over the air upgrade to FSD 12.5 yesterday and noticed it is still making me keep my hands on the wheel. Am I missing something? Every video I have seen today shows people using it without having to keep their hands on the wheel. Any feedback would be appreciated
Make sure to look forward, if you look at the screen or left/right more than 2 secs then cabin camera monitor will turn off. When look forward again, camera monitoring will resume after maybe 30+ seconds. Also, currently does not work with sunglasses. Hope this helps.
@@winnerdanny7 You don’t have to put your hands on the wheel, it is optional, but always be attentive and ready to intervene in case of any problems. Have fun & be safe.
I understand that you can't be wearing sunglasses or a hat that shields the view of your eyes from the internal camera (because it watches to ensure you're paying attention...note the flashing blue screen on influencer videos when they're spending too much time with the console).
Do you guys have any stop signs but under it it says "right turn permitted without stopping"? We have a few in Oregon, I would love to see that tested. Thanks
I would consider things like parking lots/garages, gates/barriers, detours etc as unsupported features at this point. To the point that they work is mainly a side effect of the rest of the training. Detours especially are not technically difficult to handle, it's just that it requires some special training/logic which they haven't gotten to. When they are mentioned in a release note it's worth trying again.
it's really fascinating how far you let it go before intervening it'll be 1 inch from the road closed sign stuck in the middle of an intersection with cross-traffic waiting and then you intervene id have snatched the wheel so fast, the road closures have been a long-standing problem but that red light was absolutely insane
100% - Elon is definitely getting ahead of himself. Lets get FSD to a good state first and regulation sorted. And regulation is the big hurdle with FSD/ Robotaxi especially here in Europe! I mean we don't even have FSD yet! :p
I recently learned that Tesla's map data is a copy of Google's maps that has been improved with some fleet data. Sounds great, and probably would be, but the map data in my car is dated over 3 months ago.
You asked suggested routes: How about holiday inn on 1st street, to 531 Franklin (skatepark), on to E. wetherspoon west bound to Yum ctr on 2nd street. After 3pm when school is out.
The car should be able to read it's a good and bad ideas. But it's the only way i se for the car to not get confused. but it's possible to see a tesla hater or waymo hater to tray to deviate the car to crash it.
Hey Metz Tech, obviously you use FSD somewhat frequently for video content, but when you're NOT recording, how often would you say you actually use FSD? Do you prefer to just let it do its thing and take over as needed, or do you prefer to just be in control?
That’s a great question. I don’t have a percentage off the top of my head. I would say I use it a couple times a day. Not always for a full drive though. I turn it on and off more frequently. Honestly now that it’s hands free I use it a lot after I get my lunch so I can eat a little bit on my way back to work 😅
Still stops way too far back when I'm driving at stop sigbs. It also seems to go through stop signs when it hasn't crept up enough to see the traffic. I just can't trust it in that situation because it was going to pull out in front of traffic.
It didn't fail at that closed road, it succeeded. It found way to follow the route in spite of the obstacles in its way. To put it in anthropocentric terms, the neural net is very strongly motivated to complete the task you set it to do. The task was to follow the navigation route that you set and it found a way to do that. FSD is still an ADAS system. So it is up to you to change the set route if you do like the car's choice. This will remain the case until Tesla says the system is fully autonomous and they take responsibility for its choices.
Do you still have the original snap button? Collecting information on the detours would provide valuable data. However, disengaging to make a voice note means the team misses out on the next few seconds of what the car would have done.
How does it respond if the sun is low in the sky and the sun is behind a red light Will it be able to see that the light is red/green or will it see the light at all?
Road sign reading is something it should just do, the model should keep in mind all signs it sees and recently saw. The detour arrows are obvious. A massive feature miss. Need it for Robottaxis without a doubt.
I've not kept up with Tesla's FSD, so apologies if this has been tested, but it would be interesting to see how it handles an ambulance or firetruck approaching from behind.
In AZ we called weird drivers Snowbirds. Adaptive Mode would be a cool feature. Drive like the locals Mode. Your thoughts...? Seriously. I was in Rome, Paris, Germany... driving like an American.... almost got me killed a few time. Think on this. and let Elon Know it came from us.
My guss on the red light issue, at 13:09 , the car on the left was parked in a bad spot, the road crossing markings on the right were almost gone and most of the crossing markings were hidden due to a height difference and a bad angle, so it didn't recognize this as an intersection or crossing where a traffic light was needed and than simply ignored the red light until it had a better angle, could see more into the left and got to see the crossing markings a little bit better. This is a great example of a Black Box AI in action.
Looking at the screen closely, it couldn't see that the light was red until about the same time that he pressed the brake. The same was true the second time he approached the lights. That's why it braked suddenly on that second attempt instead of easing to a stop. Who knows why it struggled to see that the light was red. Maybe those lights are a bit dimmer than most and it struggled to see the color in contrast to the brightness of the background sky.
@wr2382 potentially. My rebuttal would be that it showed the lights as red on screen 4 seconds before I pressed the brake and it wasn’t even slowing down
I think its getting confused between full road closures and lane closures. One is to be avoided completely while the other is to be only partially avoided which is what he car was trying to do by sneaking past the signs. They need to do more training one these scenarios so it can identify the difference.
Let me begin by expressing that the technology is impressive but I state that with serious reservations. Seems to me that one needs to be extremely attentive with this ..just as an observer I felt really tense. Yes, again it is impressive tech but any discrepancy can result in a disaster. Some drivers may not have the awareness of danger that I have nor the sensitivity and that is a problem which needs to be factored in along with this product. Maybe in the future years of decades to come, if every vehicle on the road is operating in communication with the other, the risk probability drops to a level where I might feel totally at ease. As it is currently, my feeling is that the probability for a very serious error outweighs the benefits. Driving in any car is a life and death scenario which so many are not cognizant of until it is too late.
It's not technically difficult but still a very small percentage of disengagements probably. Once they are a significant percentage of disengagements it makes sense to focus on it. It's triage...
*FSD is very map-dependent* , contrary to what we are told, and these mistakes in and around road closures proves this. ROAD CLOSED situations are not exactly "edge cases". Extremely disappointing. And Tesla will be allowing regulatory agencies, world wide to use 12.5 for evaluation ?
Counter point… I’ve seen it do a lot of things that would suggest it is not dependent on mapping data. I think it needs to be pushed further in that direction
A very easy drive for a human, but FSD continues to make egregious mistakes: 4:24 FSD wants to go into the DO NOT ENTER area. Very bad 5:52 Another huge failure of FSD, it has very poor situational awareness omg, when will FSD ever get some smarts? Where is the AI and Neural Nets, that Elon loves to talk about?
@@DerekDavis213 _FSD continues to make egregious mistakes, every day._ Yes, it does; but a vanishingly small number of them end up as actual accidents--only 75 in 1.3 *billion* miles of Teslas driving with FSD engaged, according to data recently released by NHTSA. _FSD cannot be trusted_ So true! But what *CAN* be trusted is human drivers causing >40,000 fatalities, each and every year, in the U.S. alone. Somehow you never seem to take this into account when cataloging minor errors by FSD _ad nauseum._
I never understand this line of thinking. It does the same thing whether there are cars next to me or not. It’s not like other cars appear and suddenly it freaks
@@MetzTechignore this troll. You don’t need to change a thing about your videos. He’s jealous that he can’t be as cute as you and can’t grow nice hair like yours
I love these "harsher" FSD videos. Being critical of it and not hyping it up!!
Very well done!!!. If I had DMs with Elon and team, I HIGHLY recommend your take on pushing FSD. Surely, they hear you. Keep pushing it. I'm 63 and I will surely need FSD to maintain my independence. THX Grandpa M.I.K.E.
So I am , 63. Give me the stuff, no brainer. I am waiting for the availability in my home,country. Greetings from Switzerland
I'm 73, loving FSD 12.5 for most of my driving. I bought my Model 3 because of FSD and the independence it will give me in 10 or 15 years when I start getting old.
I'm glad youre testing it on road closed detours. So much for it to learn.
Agreed
Another channel also had FSD 12.5 try to bypass a Road Closed barricade. It doesn't appear that FSD can read and interpret most signs, other than stop or speed limit. That's a key need. No one would pass a driving test without that ability (lest they go off a failed bridge). Gotta be able to handle closed roads, detours, school zones with hours, days, flashing lights or when children present, other critical instructions that a human would understand. May be approaching the long tail, though.
Or No Parking about the 16 minute mark.
Or Wrong Way/One Way
It's incredibly exciting to watch FSD progress so rapidly. I appreciate your approach of pushing the technology while maintaining a critical eye 👍. Unfortunately, as a Tesla owner in Italy, I haven't had the opportunity to experience it firsthand. I'm eagerly awaiting its availability here🤞.
Thanks so much! I hope you get the opportunity soon 🇮🇹
Great video man, I like how you are putting it through its paces
Thank you 🙏🏼
12:50 yea thats a Google Maps thing, that's why I was really happy to hear, that they might do their own maps and go away from Google. Plus Fleet to Fleet communications will come in either 12.5.x or 12.6
Could be a game changer
Love the ATP shirt!
Elon said communicating road closures to the fleet coming in 12.6
I think they might fix autoparking at the end of the drives differently than it is fixed right now (it might be part of the actual stack)
Autoparking is hardcoded for now but when it will do it automatically it will need to read signs (disabled parking only, pickup only etc) and have other features.
Hey. I'm new here. Watching from Brazil. Love FSD
Welcome 🇧🇷
5:34 it tried to reverse to park in the spot again! I'm telling you with a flip of a switch FSD will be able to autopark. edit: i see you mentioned that
In my opinion, at the 4:55 scenario, it maybe sees the detour ahead sign, so it knows it's probably gonna be a detour, but at that location, they didn't have the arrow sign like it was at 4:11. At least that is my best guess :D
Thanks for making these videos. Although it seems to struggle with construction, it's still quite impressive everywhere else. Do you think the software/map navigation knew there was a stop light where you had to hit the brakes? Or does this software only go off what it sees as you drive? Hope the question makes sense. I'm getting my first Tesla on Monday. Very excited
It's an interesting video and indeed hopefully they will make some changes to that kind of signs. I think we are very surprised what the robotaxi will do at the time with no driver?
13:05 First time I've ever seen FSD miss a red light. Normally it stops at yellows! 😅 Can you tell if it saw the light as red on your screen when rewatching the footage? Hard to tell on my tiny phone screen. Good reminder for everyone that it's still called FSD supervised for a reason.
The detours dont bother me because it seems to just be a case of simply not being a scenario they've bothered to train it on yet. It will obviously be addressed at some point and in the mean time, road closed signs are easy for the human supervisor to see and take over. Missing the red light is much more concerning in my opinion.
Same here. Literally never experienced that once. Which is why I wanted to try it again. It seemed to show the red lights on the display the whole time. Which makes no sense
@@MetzTech Very strange. But now you have a spot to go test it on every update, so that's a plus 😉
Thanks for the real takes. New sub here.
🙏🏼 legend
So I'm a complete newbie to Tesla. I just bought a 2024 Y four days ago. I'm still learning the basics on FSD. I did the over the air upgrade to FSD 12.5 yesterday and noticed it is still making me keep my hands on the wheel. Am I missing something? Every video I have seen today shows people using it without having to keep their hands on the wheel. Any feedback would be appreciated
Make sure to look forward, if you look at the screen or left/right more than 2 secs then cabin camera monitor will turn off. When look forward again, camera monitoring will resume after maybe 30+ seconds. Also, currently does not work with sunglasses. Hope this helps.
you do not have to keep your hands on the wheel. they say that for safety, but its fine to put your hands on your lap
@@winnerdanny7 You don’t have to put your hands on the wheel, it is optional, but always be attentive and ready to intervene in case of any problems. Have fun & be safe.
I understand that you can't be wearing sunglasses or a hat that shields the view of your eyes from the internal camera (because it watches to ensure you're paying attention...note the flashing blue screen on influencer videos when they're spending too much time with the console).
@@bearcubdaycare we'll be able to wear sunglasses in a few weeks
Do you guys have any stop signs but under it it says "right turn permitted without stopping"? We have a few in Oregon, I would love to see that tested.
Thanks
I don’t think I’ve ever seen one here
I would consider things like parking lots/garages, gates/barriers, detours etc as unsupported features at this point. To the point that they work is mainly a side effect of the rest of the training. Detours especially are not technically difficult to handle, it's just that it requires some special training/logic which they haven't gotten to. When they are mentioned in a release note it's worth trying again.
Agreed
There’s no better video of FSD than Chuck’s❤
AI Driver has just as good videos
Love AI Drivers videos
20:12 It would be great if they had a 1 through 10 driving aggressiveness setting.
I want an option for defensive driving where it keeps cushions doesn’t change lanes into blind spots etc.
Yes! That would be great
Elon said the options will be updated to "Standard" "Rushed"
it's really fascinating how far you let it go before intervening it'll be 1 inch from the road closed sign stuck in the middle of an intersection with cross-traffic waiting and then you intervene id have snatched the wheel so fast, the road closures have been a long-standing problem but that red light was absolutely insane
I always try to give it a chance to figure it out. But yeah it’s definitely awkward with other people around lol
The red light was insane
Something tells me that you’ll be able to make these videos for quite a long period of time. Robo taxi‘s will not replace you anytime soon.
Definitely agree. Maybe in the next decade lol.
100% - Elon is definitely getting ahead of himself. Lets get FSD to a good state first and regulation sorted. And regulation is the big hurdle with FSD/ Robotaxi especially here in Europe! I mean we don't even have FSD yet! :p
I recently learned that Tesla's map data is a copy of Google's maps that has been improved with some fleet data. Sounds great, and probably would be, but the map data in my car is dated over 3 months ago.
1:55 good observation.
You asked suggested routes: How about holiday inn on 1st street, to 531 Franklin (skatepark), on to E. wetherspoon west bound to Yum ctr on 2nd street. After 3pm when school is out.
The car should be able to read it's a good and bad ideas. But it's the only way i se for the car to not get confused. but it's possible to see a tesla hater or waymo hater to tray to deviate the car to crash it.
Hey Metz Tech, obviously you use FSD somewhat frequently for video content, but when you're NOT recording, how often would you say you actually use FSD? Do you prefer to just let it do its thing and take over as needed, or do you prefer to just be in control?
That’s a great question. I don’t have a percentage off the top of my head. I would say I use it a couple times a day. Not always for a full drive though. I turn it on and off more frequently. Honestly now that it’s hands free I use it a lot after I get my lunch so I can eat a little bit on my way back to work 😅
Still stops way too far back when I'm driving at stop sigbs. It also seems to go through stop signs when it hasn't crept up enough to see the traffic. I just can't trust it in that situation because it was going to pull out in front of traffic.
It didn't fail at that closed road, it succeeded. It found way to follow the route in spite of the obstacles in its way. To put it in anthropocentric terms, the neural net is very strongly motivated to complete the task you set it to do. The task was to follow the navigation route that you set and it found a way to do that.
FSD is still an ADAS system. So it is up to you to change the set route if you do like the car's choice. This will remain the case until Tesla says the system is fully autonomous and they take responsibility for its choices.
Do you still have the original snap button? Collecting information on the detours would provide valuable data. However, disengaging to make a voice note means the team misses out on the next few seconds of what the car would have done.
I don’t think I do
How does it respond if the sun is low in the sky and the sun is behind a red light Will it be able to see that the light is red/green or will it see the light at all?
Road sign reading is something it should just do, the model should keep in mind all signs it sees and recently saw. The detour arrows are obvious. A massive feature miss. Need it for Robottaxis without a doubt.
School buses that stop to pick up kids would be a good test. Wrong time of year though I suppose. Maybe buses taking campers home?
I've not kept up with Tesla's FSD, so apologies if this has been tested, but it would be interesting to see how it handles an ambulance or firetruck approaching from behind.
Tough to test but definitely would
Be interesting
In AZ we called weird drivers Snowbirds. Adaptive Mode would be a cool feature. Drive like the locals Mode. Your thoughts...? Seriously. I was in Rome, Paris, Germany... driving like an American.... almost got me killed a few time. Think on this. and let Elon Know it came from us.
My guss on the red light issue, at 13:09 , the car on the left was parked in a bad spot, the road crossing markings on the right were almost gone and most of the crossing markings were hidden due to a height difference and a bad angle, so it didn't recognize this as an intersection or crossing where a traffic light was needed and than simply ignored the red light until it had a better angle, could see more into the left and got to see the crossing markings a little bit better. This is a great example of a Black Box AI in action.
Looking at the screen closely, it couldn't see that the light was red until about the same time that he pressed the brake.
The same was true the second time he approached the lights. That's why it braked suddenly on that second attempt instead of easing to a stop.
Who knows why it struggled to see that the light was red. Maybe those lights are a bit dimmer than most and it struggled to see the color in contrast to the brightness of the background sky.
@wr2382 potentially. My rebuttal would be that it showed the lights as red on screen 4 seconds before I pressed the brake and it wasn’t even slowing down
@@MetzTech yeah that was insane even for 12.3.x versions. Seems like a critical regression of some sort.
I can't wait til I get 12.5! I'm still stuck with 12.3 😮💨
Omg I just got the 12.5.1 update! 😁Waiting for it to finish installing then I'm going to test it!
So did I! Made another 12.5 video today but 12.5.1 coming after!
@@MetzTech great! Love your videos. Very well explained and great narration and editing 🙌
Thanks so much 🙏🏼
I think its getting confused between full road closures and lane closures. One is to be avoided completely while the other is to be only partially avoided which is what he car was trying to do by sneaking past the signs. They need to do more training one these scenarios so it can identify the difference.
I've always had issues with 4 way stops with a lot of cars. I have a HW3 m3 so won't be able to try for a while. Can you test it?
Definitely!
@@MetzTech my guy! Thank you
4:42 maybe they haven't done it yet because they're planning to completely overhaul end of destination behavior for the banish update.
That would make sense
1:08 - Did you get those red pedal covers recently?
Few months back
ruclips.net/video/hygRG3ve6wU/видео.html
I wonder if the new 12.5.1 wide release from Elon today will fix these edge cases?
I have issues on a highway when there is a Minimum speed sign. If there is little to no traffic, my speed limit drops to the minimum speed.
Let me begin by expressing that the technology is impressive but I state that with serious reservations. Seems to me that one needs to be extremely attentive with this ..just as an observer I felt really tense. Yes, again it is impressive tech but any discrepancy can result in a disaster. Some drivers may not have the awareness of danger that I have nor the sensitivity and that is a problem which needs to be factored in along with this product.
Maybe in the future years of decades to come, if every vehicle on the road is operating in communication with the other, the risk probability drops to a level where I might feel totally at ease. As it is currently, my feeling is that the probability for a very serious error outweighs the benefits. Driving in any car is a life and death scenario which so many are not cognizant of until it is too late.
FSD v12.5.1 first drive (Ver # visible on 2024 MYP display) Unprotected Left Turn ruclips.net/video/2iB93rNn4qg/видео.htmlsi=m-Br3zydfkGbb-fX Success!
Wow it still can't do detours... I guess reading the sign and following the arrow is a huge challenge for machines...
It's not technically difficult but still a very small percentage of disengagements probably. Once they are a significant percentage of disengagements it makes sense to focus on it. It's triage...
Looks like the arrow turned yellow when a car drove by you in the other lane.
Interesting. I’ll have to see if that happens regularly
*FSD is very map-dependent* , contrary to what we are told, and these mistakes in and around road closures proves this. ROAD CLOSED situations are not exactly "edge cases". Extremely disappointing. And Tesla will be allowing regulatory agencies, world wide to use 12.5 for evaluation ?
Counter point… I’ve seen it do a lot of things that would suggest it is not dependent on mapping data. I think it needs to be pushed further in that direction
Yeah I don’t think it’s map dependent but definitely leans on them
Why do my mirrors randomly close
At the same spot every time or random?
@@MetzTech sometime at same spot. And yesterday at a parking lot
With FSD? It does that when it thinks it needs to fold them to fit through tight spots.
6:00 to be fair it could have fit by the sign. That's on the road workers :)
13:05 straight on red is legal in some states :)
Good tests
European laughing at roundabout being “edge cases”. Since they are so much safer and so much more efficient they are here EVERYWHERE.
A very easy drive for a human, but FSD continues to make egregious mistakes:
4:24 FSD wants to go into the DO NOT ENTER area. Very bad
5:52 Another huge failure of FSD, it has very poor situational awareness
omg, when will FSD ever get some smarts? Where is the AI and Neural Nets, that Elon loves to talk about?
Interesting take, I guess you have a major case of EMBS
@@vigneshsuresh2574 It is not 'my take' , it is REALITY. FSD continues to make egregrious mistakes, every day. FSD cannot be trusted .
@@DerekDavis213 _FSD continues to make egregious mistakes, every day._ Yes, it does; but a vanishingly small number of them end up as actual accidents--only 75 in 1.3 *billion* miles of Teslas driving with FSD engaged, according to data recently released by NHTSA.
_FSD cannot be trusted_
So true! But what *CAN* be trusted is human drivers causing >40,000 fatalities, each and every year, in the U.S. alone. Somehow you never seem to take this into account when cataloging minor errors by FSD _ad nauseum._
Rr crossings
Figured it could go behind the sign. I thought the reason for vision only was to mimic what humans do so guess it is not reading signs.
so empty your road
I never understand this line of thinking. It does the same thing whether there are cars next to me or not. It’s not like other cars appear and suddenly it freaks
why do you film yourself? is that narcissism wth is wrong with people thumbsdown
I like to talk to people. 🤷🏻♂️
@@MetzTech BS 🤣🤣🤣
@@MetzTechignore this troll. You don’t need to change a thing about your videos. He’s jealous that he can’t be as cute as you and can’t grow nice hair like yours
🥳❤💯💢💥💫👍👍👍