The reason for rough transitions on Arrow coasters wasn't "hand bent" track sections. You can get extremely precise even with hand-built track (I believe RMC still does that today). The reason for bad transitions was that Arrow engineers used the low rail as their reference point. Apparently there were problems with that in transitions when the low rail would become the high rail. B&M used the heart line as its reference point. Arrow eventually started using the heart line as well, but by then it was too late and they couldn't find buyers.
Thanks for clarifying that! I am aware of that. What I meant exactly when I said "hand bent transitions" (I'm aware the skilled carpenters could be very precise) was that they were designed without the aid of computer technology. An age where the head of Arrow Dynamics didn't have an engineering background and they had precalculated formulas they would follow in order to produce products with a proven formula. Thanks for watching and commenting 😊
@@coasterdaddy7123 There's a whole mythos about old coasters being rough due to lack of computers, which doesn't explain Schwarzkopf machines, lol. In this interview of former Arrow engineer Kevin Russell, he briefly explains the low rail/high rail problem that Arrow had: ruclips.net/video/vjZDTQr-6r0/видео.html
I would love to see the B&M invert’s make a come back with elements never seen before. I always thought they should build one with crazy airtime mixed in with the intensity of a Batman. Nice video guys!
Thanks for checking it out! I live Airtime Thrills. Back before I started my channel I actually discovered him when he only had four videos and like maybe 200 subscribers tops. I've been closely following him ever since so it's nice to get to collaborate with him 🙂 we've discovered that the two of us think very alike on many coaster related things.
2:22 As someone who grew up in the '70's & '80's, I have to say complaints about roughness headbanging on Arrow loopers were pretty far and few between. It was very much a part of the marketing culture for roller coasters to be polarizing. Ever hear an ad for a coaster that opened back then, with Don LaFontaine's classic horror movie voice for the voiceover, often daring the public to ride? It wasn't until the '90's, when B&M and Intamin came along with their fancy computer aided benders that made Arrow start seeming noticeably rougher. I sort of miss those days when things weren't always so precise and in the back of your mind you wondered how much of the creation was guess work vs. mathematics.
I'm a huge fan of Arrow loopers. when Great American Scream Machine at SFGA was demolished, i was pretty upset. The added element of preparing for transitions and what not is definitely a dying breed.
I think part of the issue is that many coasters, notably Arrows, got rougher with age. So not only are the newer coasters smoother, but they are being compared to rough, "vibraty " versions of old coasters. My anecdotal observation is that many steel coasters don't age well. I rode the GASM at SFGA when it was brand new and it seemed smooth and fast to me. When I rode it for the last time a few years before it was removed, it was like riding a lumbering shopping cart down rough pavement. Of course I was older as well ;)
BG Tampa is my home park, and Kumba for the longest time was my favorite coaster in Busch Gardens. The layout and theming makes the first drop feel like your diving into the jungle. The coaster is aggressive and will take a few jabs at you, jabs that when you get older you start to notice more and more, especially on the corkscrews, nevertheless I always make it a point to ride this, just maybe not 5 times in one visit as I used to do.
Wildfire at SDC is interesting as its actually a hybrid of a sitdown and floorless. You might notice the seating is higher on its trains compared to other sitdowns as it was originally supposed to be a Floorless. For whatever odd reason that didn't happen and B&M made their trains with the unique raised seating where your feet dangle like in a floorless. @8:58
Oh I never heard that. I just assumed your feet are probably off the floor on all of these because on the hypers and gigas I've ridden by B&M the seats are raised as well.
At least there's Kumba, even If I've never ridden it. I've never ridden a B&M sit down, nor have I ridden a B&M Hyper of any size; under 200' and over 300 and anything in between) but I've ridden all the B&M's at Cedar Point, Alton Towers, Thorpe Park, SFMM and Knott's. My top three favourite B&M coasters I've ridden are are 1) Gatekeeper, 2) Tatsu, 3) Raptor
@@coasterdaddy7123 haha literally at this point an SLC would be an improvement! I would actually love to see a vekoma shockwave model in place of it, or a Intamin blitz, either would be amazing
Great vid guys. I just rode Kumba for the first time 2 days before the big shutdown and I LOVED it! I thought Montu was overrated and that was a let down, but Kumba gave a better ride than I was expecting! With the Hulk literally being one of my favorite coasters It seems I really like the B&M sit down loopers. I'd like to see more but what I'd really like to see is a next gen version of the Inverts. Those things are just awesome overall and I'd like to see what sort of improvements B&M (Maybe RMC influences?) could make to those beauties! Good stuff. I enjoyed it!
It's surprising to me that when they rebuilt Hulk, they kept the sitdown aspect rather than making it a floorless when floorless coasters seem to be more popular among the GP.
Tbh, the laterals on Wildfire’s post-Cobra Roll OVBT are crazy. IMHO, it had such a perfect layout: amazing topographic utilization to create a compact but taller, longer, more forceful, and thrilling than expected layout that is just long enough to be interesting but not boring and short enough to be rideable and not super intimidating for all ages. First coaster I greeted out on, bottom of 1st drop, when I was 13.
My favorite b&m sitdown looper is Kumba. That ride is so intense and fun to ride. It might not have a ton of airtime (which none of them really have) those positives are really great
Originally the former Arrow coaster Drachen Fire at Busch Gardens Williamsburg was supposed to be built by B&M but they wanted it done quickly and B&M wasn't able to get to that project right away. Sometimes I wish the park would still have them build that coaster simply because I think a lot of are curious to wonder what that ride would've been like if it had been built by B&M instead of Arrow.
Awesome video, sad to see that Sitdown loopers and now even Floorless coasters are obsolete but with huge success of the Wing Coasters and now dive coasters with longer layouts, it’s understandable why we haven’t seen any of those models since before 2015 (not including floorless conversions)
Great video and points! Funny, when I was making my B&M video essay, I was wondering about the lack of B&M sit down loopers. You guys did an excellent job at discussing why B&M has never favored this model!
I have only ridden hulk out of the sit down loopers, but I loved it. It was massive, intense, and the inversions were fun with minimal head-banging. It has a place towards the bottom of my top 10. I think you should do whatever happened to Major 4-D coasters (ex. X2, Eejanika)
Awesome, thanks! I already discussed 4D coasters. Click on the i in this video for a link to the playlist or just go to my channel playlists and you will find the whole series!
tl;dw: The floorless coaster killed it and then the wing coaster killed that. Jokes aside, great video. Great to see B&M get some recognition. They were a major player and innovator in the 90s and early 2000s, but now a lot of enthusiasts see them as a "boring" company. I think they will make some more interesting coasters in the near future. Their Gigas seem to be great rides, the LSM technology is there to use it and their new surf coaster is coming as well.
B&M doesn’t have to be super innovative anymore. Their place in the industry is set, and they will remain popular with parks for one major reason: reliability. B&M makes roller coasters that are thrilling but not to the point of scaring non-enthusiasts away (looking at you Intimdator 305) and their coasters tend to have less technical issues than other manufacturers. Parks know that investing in a B&M coaster will pay off. They are a safe bet for any park or chain that has the money to shell out for them, and because of this, the company will forever be a presence in the industry.
Wildfire at Silver Dollar City was my first ever looping coaster, and it still holds up as a solid ride today, even though it's pretty basic compared to the other sit-down loopers. I've ridden Kumba and Hulk, and I'd say Kumba is the best, Wildfire second, and Hulk third for the ones here in the US
I always thought Led Zeppelin the Ride looked pretty lit. If it was cloned, I wouldn't complain.....because I'm sure most of us here haven't been on it
I wish Carowinds( my home park) would get one. Maybe something like Led Zeppelin but go for the inversion record. I loved that ride and love inversions more than anything on coasters.
Thanks! 🙂 I love doing the videos in this series. Unfortunately, it seems I'm running out of models to discuss that satisfy what I require for them to be talked about on this series, this being Episode 8! Hopefully I can do at least another one or two of these though!
I love the B&M sitdowns! I wish they made more. Floorless coasters are worse to me, because being so elevated is not a good thing. The B&M rattle is far worse as you go higher, which also means headbanging is worse. But also, sitting low to the track makes it feel faster and makes it feel more intense. However, I do understand that the general public don't like intensity. I think the added intensity of sitting low to the track is what doomed sitdown coasters, even though I personally love them.
Just the other day I was thinking about what could replace Demon at Six Flags Great America once metal fatigue and parts maintenance becomes too costly, and I thought of a big, shiny new B&M sit down looper! Great minds think alike.
One thing that I would love to see happen but most likely won’t is Six Flags Great Adventure making Green Lantern a standard sit down roller coaster. They already have a floorless coaster that I would never want to see leave the park, so the best way to make Green Lantern more comfortable would be to give it standard sit down trains.
I think wild eagle at Dollywood was supposed to be either a sit down or floorless coaster till B&M pitched the idea of the wing as it doesn't have a standard wing coaster layout. They probably saw the design for Raptor at Gardaland and thought the wing would be a more visually appealing coaster.
It would be cool if B&M would put sit down trains on stand up coasters at parks that already have a floorless coaster. A great candidate I think is Green Lantern at Great Adventure.
I don't blame B&M for their predictability honestly. If they are doing what is comfortable for them and increases their safety record, then I am all for it :)
Haha actually the way RCT gave you predesigned elements is similar to how Arrow built their inversions, yep. Loops and corkscrews all of one size. Steel Phantom and Corkscrew both had the same size inversions.
I haven't been on a traditional B&M sitdown in a while, but IMO if they raise their seats about 2 inches (or maybe up one inch and back one inch) your feet wouldn't touch the floor on anything but the standup model. I gotta believe the traditional sit down looper would have to be significantly cheaper to build without all the technical intricacies of the folding floor. I'm a little surprised it didn't stick around. I wonder if that means that parks were finding easier to market a gimmick (floorless) more so than another element (inversion or more track length in general) that still wouldn't give them a new record to promote.
Also don't forget that Parks are starting to convert their old stand-ups into floorless coasters, which makes me wonder if a park already has a floorless and a stand-up if they could convert the stand-up into a sit down?
True! Other people have brought the standup to sit-down idea up, particularly with Green Lantern at Great Adventure. Someone said though (no way I can confirm mind you) that the heartlining of inversions are designed around a different point of the riders body on standups and sit-downs, and that's why the standups have become floorless because the floorless trains are designed with the same heartlining.
Maybe SF Great Adventure should convert Green Lantern into a sit down since they already have a floorless or be the first park with two floorless coasters!
It would be great if they could add sit-down trains to it but someone suggested something that would make sense. They said B&M wouldn't be able to put regular sit-down trains on the standup because you would be sitting lower and B&M designed their regular sit-down loopers around a different heartline than their standups and floorless loopers.
Tbh after arrow and b&m stopped or went out. The main sit down looper creators were and still are mainly intamin and now vekoma. I'm sure there are a few others I'm missing but seeing as how a floorless coaster hasn't been built in a while those are the only 2 I can think of (edit) I do believe that the b&m sit-down will return in a clone of the incredible hulk at the universal Beijing park
I feel that the 2016 Hulk Coaster often gets done dirty. Completely new track and trains means a new coaster for me. I'll always count the 2016 and 1999 rides as different credits. (Not that I have the 2016 credit)
No, Floorless and Standup coasters have the same heartline. The heartline on sit-down coasters is about 20cm lower. It would end up feeling uncomfortable and rough.
Mack owns Europa Park, so they manufacture many of their own rides, though there are a few exceptions. And Zamperla now owns Luna Park at Coney Island so they showcase many of their rides there. Other manufacturers over the years have owned small parks too.
Wildfire is a floorless but SDC was too cheap to build the floorless coaster station. Seriously it has a floorless coaster train with a floor, Its seats are raised up from the track compared to a normal B&M sitdown looper.
I really didn't think it was worthwhile honestly, it wouldn't have really added anything to the discussion. It's still the same exact ride, just new track. Other people may not agree, I don't know, but in any case it doesn't really change anything I discussed.
The reason for rough transitions on Arrow coasters wasn't "hand bent" track sections. You can get extremely precise even with hand-built track (I believe RMC still does that today). The reason for bad transitions was that Arrow engineers used the low rail as their reference point. Apparently there were problems with that in transitions when the low rail would become the high rail. B&M used the heart line as its reference point. Arrow eventually started using the heart line as well, but by then it was too late and they couldn't find buyers.
Thanks for clarifying that! I am aware of that. What I meant exactly when I said "hand bent transitions" (I'm aware the skilled carpenters could be very precise) was that they were designed without the aid of computer technology. An age where the head of Arrow Dynamics didn't have an engineering background and they had precalculated formulas they would follow in order to produce products with a proven formula. Thanks for watching and commenting 😊
@@coasterdaddy7123 There's a whole mythos about old coasters being rough due to lack of computers, which doesn't explain Schwarzkopf machines, lol. In this interview of former Arrow engineer Kevin Russell, he briefly explains the low rail/high rail problem that Arrow had: ruclips.net/video/vjZDTQr-6r0/видео.html
sharkheadism Yeah, in my home park of frontier city we have a schwarzkopf looper that is very smooth.
Video came out awesome!
Yes it did! Thanks for joining me 🙂
Hoi airtime thrills
Hi airtime thrills
Indeed
I would love to see the B&M invert’s make a come back with elements never seen before. I always thought they should build one with crazy airtime mixed in with the intensity of a Batman. Nice video guys!
Thanks for watching!
They should do a launch on one!
Pyrenees has an actual airtime hill. It was airtime on an invert so it was quite interesting
Dueling Dragons has some sick airtime during the zero-g high five element thingy... RIP one of the best suspended coasters ever, (if not the best)
lampshades120 I just watched the POV. Looks awesome. saw the airtime hill at the end. Love the run down rusty track look lol
And they said infinity war was the best crossover ever.
Still is
That’s so true. Lol
Not any more Endgame is the best crossover
And they were wrong
Ha
I’m a simple woman, I see airtime thrills, I click. It always brings me to some good new channels to sub to.
Thanks for checking it out! I live Airtime Thrills. Back before I started my channel I actually discovered him when he only had four videos and like maybe 200 subscribers tops. I've been closely following him ever since so it's nice to get to collaborate with him 🙂 we've discovered that the two of us think very alike on many coaster related things.
Two of my favorite coaster channels in the same video!
My two favorite coaster RUclipsRS!? In the same video?? This is a dream.
2:22 As someone who grew up in the '70's & '80's, I have to say complaints about roughness headbanging on Arrow loopers were pretty far and few between. It was very much a part of the marketing culture for roller coasters to be polarizing. Ever hear an ad for a coaster that opened back then, with Don LaFontaine's classic horror movie voice for the voiceover, often daring the public to ride? It wasn't until the '90's, when B&M and Intamin came along with their fancy computer aided benders that made Arrow start seeming noticeably rougher. I sort of miss those days when things weren't always so precise and in the back of your mind you wondered how much of the creation was guess work vs. mathematics.
I'm a huge fan of Arrow loopers. when Great American Scream Machine at SFGA was demolished, i was pretty upset. The added element of preparing for transitions and what not is definitely a dying breed.
I think part of the issue is that many coasters, notably Arrows, got rougher with age. So not only are the newer coasters smoother, but they are being compared to rough, "vibraty " versions of old coasters. My anecdotal observation is that many steel coasters don't age well. I rode the GASM at SFGA when it was brand new and it seemed smooth and fast to me. When I rode it for the last time a few years before it was removed, it was like riding a lumbering shopping cart down rough pavement. Of course I was older as well ;)
Ayee a Coaster Daddy and Airtime Thrills collab! Love it! Great video! Also loved seeing my POV of Hulk being used in this video!
I figured you would appreciate it. Thanks so much 😊
My favorite B&M sit down is probably Incredible Hulk coaster
Incredible Hulk looks............... Incredible!
Me too
F in the chat for hard rock park
F
F
I went to that park when I was young and I enjoyed the heck out of it. It was an awesome park.
F
F
I want green lantern at great adventure to be a sit-down since there's already a floorless there but sit-down would be a much better experience
Yeah I'm sure it would improve it drastically!
Great collaboration! Well done boys!
I was waiting for this collab, really good video.
BG Tampa is my home park, and Kumba for the longest time was my favorite coaster in Busch Gardens. The layout and theming makes the first drop feel like your diving into the jungle. The coaster is aggressive and will take a few jabs at you, jabs that when you get older you start to notice more and more, especially on the corkscrews, nevertheless I always make it a point to ride this, just maybe not 5 times in one visit as I used to do.
Ok gotcha! It does look awesome 👍
Two of my favorite coaster RUclipsrs!😍
😊😁
I couldn't help but like the video before I even watched it 🤙
Wildfire at SDC is interesting as its actually a hybrid of a sitdown and floorless. You might notice the seating is higher on its trains compared to other sitdowns as it was originally supposed to be a Floorless. For whatever odd reason that didn't happen and B&M made their trains with the unique raised seating where your feet dangle like in a floorless. @8:58
Oh I never heard that. I just assumed your feet are probably off the floor on all of these because on the hypers and gigas I've ridden by B&M the seats are raised as well.
Hit the nail on the head with this one! Great video!
Thank you!
Can't wait for B&M to make stand-up floorless coasters next. 🤣
Stand-Up, Floorless, Inverted Coasters with a dive drop.
@@johnfoltz8183 Stand-Up, Floorless, Inverted Giga Coasters with a dive drop.
Working title: Heart Attack
At least there's Kumba, even If I've never ridden it. I've never ridden a B&M sit down, nor have I ridden a B&M Hyper of any size; under 200' and over 300 and anything in between) but I've ridden all the B&M's at Cedar Point, Alton Towers, Thorpe Park, SFMM and Knott's. My top three favourite B&M coasters I've ridden are are 1) Gatekeeper, 2) Tatsu, 3) Raptor
You should come to Florida. We have some of the best BnM's here. Montu, Shiekra, Kumba, Hulk, Kraken, Manta, Mako......
@@jimthar17 Montu looks fantastic; the only B&M invert below Katun.
I’d loved to see the sit down loopers make a comeback, we certainly don’t have enough of them in Europe.
Yes absolutely! Thanks for watching! I've watched a few of your videos in the past 🙂
awesome video man love the guest appearance from AIRTIME thrills.
Nice collaboration; I really enjoyed this. Thank you!
Thanks for watching!
1:18 DANGLING COASTER
Loved this collab, honestly I wondered this to. Would love a B&M sit down at Thorpe instead of colossus.
Oh yeah, I'm sure that would be a great improvement!
@@coasterdaddy7123 haha literally at this point an SLC would be an improvement! I would actually love to see a vekoma shockwave model in place of it, or a Intamin blitz, either would be amazing
Great vid guys. I just rode Kumba for the first time 2 days before the big shutdown and I LOVED it! I thought Montu was overrated and that was a let down, but Kumba gave a better ride than I was expecting! With the Hulk literally being one of my favorite coasters It seems I really like the B&M sit down loopers. I'd like to see more but what I'd really like to see is a next gen version of the Inverts. Those things are just awesome overall and I'd like to see what sort of improvements B&M (Maybe RMC influences?) could make to those beauties!
Good stuff. I enjoyed it!
Thanks so much! 😁
@@coasterdaddy7123 You bet man. It's been really great to see your channel growth. I'm a legit fan! :o)
It's surprising to me that when they rebuilt Hulk, they kept the sitdown aspect rather than making it a floorless when floorless coasters seem to be more popular among the GP.
It is pretty interesting, I'm glad they kept it though.
Kumba is still my favorite coaster of all time, would love to ride Wildfire one day!
Awesome!
Kumba was my first major Coaster credit back in 94’ and its still one of my personal favorites to this day!
It holds up! Great to hear!
Tbh, the laterals on Wildfire’s
post-Cobra Roll OVBT are crazy. IMHO, it had such a perfect layout: amazing topographic utilization to create a compact but taller, longer, more forceful, and thrilling than expected layout that is just long enough to be interesting but not boring and short enough to be rideable and not super intimidating for all ages. First coaster I greeted out on, bottom of 1st drop, when I was 13.
My favorite b&m sitdown looper is Kumba. That ride is so intense and fun to ride. It might not have a ton of airtime (which none of them really have) those positives are really great
Originally the former Arrow coaster Drachen Fire at Busch Gardens Williamsburg was supposed to be built by B&M but they wanted it done quickly and B&M wasn't able to get to that project right away. Sometimes I wish the park would still have them build that coaster simply because I think a lot of are curious to wonder what that ride would've been like if it had been built by B&M instead of Arrow.
0:52 Wow Six Flags, coming up with RMC names before RMC even existed. 😂
Twisted Iron Wolf
IS AIRTIME THRILLS THE TWIST!!! YESSSS!!! AMAZING VIDEO!!!!!
I rode the Led Zepplin coaster at Hard Rock Park several times. It wasn't amazing, but it was very solid. Sad that it's gone.
It looked like a great headlining attraction for that park.
It’s still operating, but it’s now called Dragon’s Run and it’s located in Vietnam .
Awesome video, sad to see that Sitdown loopers and now even Floorless coasters are obsolete but with huge success of the Wing Coasters and now dive coasters with longer layouts, it’s understandable why we haven’t seen any of those models since before 2015 (not including floorless conversions)
There are just so many variations on the traditional looping coasters that parks would rather use to appeal to a wide audience.
Great video and points! Funny, when I was making my B&M video essay, I was wondering about the lack of B&M sit down loopers. You guys did an excellent job at discussing why B&M has never favored this model!
Wow, that's awesome lol
I think it wasn't different enough from Arrow Loopers which many parks already had. Whereas the Floorless was similar but different enough.
You got CHRIS ON!!!
I have only ridden hulk out of the sit down loopers, but I loved it. It was massive, intense, and the inversions were fun with minimal head-banging. It has a place towards the bottom of my top 10. I think you should do whatever happened to Major 4-D coasters (ex. X2, Eejanika)
Awesome, thanks! I already discussed 4D coasters. Click on the i in this video for a link to the playlist or just go to my channel playlists and you will find the whole series!
Really enjoyed this one bro! Always love myself a good B&M Sit-down looper! But great job again by you and Chris
Thanks so much Miguel! ☺️
Kumba and hulk are the only 2 I’ve been on and they’re both amazing.
I’ve ridden dragon Kahn at portaventura several times when I’ve gone to Spain. By far my favourite coaster ever❤️. Shame there won’t be anymore made
Great episode! 👍🏻
Thanks! ☺️
Very nice video. Thanks for posting and have a nice day too.
Thanks so much! That is great to hear 😊 have a great day Kurt!
tl;dw: The floorless coaster killed it and then the wing coaster killed that.
Jokes aside, great video. Great to see B&M get some recognition. They were a major player and innovator in the 90s and early 2000s, but now a lot of enthusiasts see them as a "boring" company. I think they will make some more interesting coasters in the near future. Their Gigas seem to be great rides, the LSM technology is there to use it and their new surf coaster is coming as well.
B&M doesn’t have to be super innovative anymore. Their place in the industry is set, and they will remain popular with parks for one major reason: reliability. B&M makes roller coasters that are thrilling but not to the point of scaring non-enthusiasts away (looking at you Intimdator 305) and their coasters tend to have less technical issues than other manufacturers. Parks know that investing in a B&M coaster will pay off. They are a safe bet for any park or chain that has the money to shell out for them, and because of this, the company will forever be a presence in the industry.
Absolutely valid points! B&M is all about reliability, their track record is so amazing!
I feel like the Floorless Coaster got in the way of the Sit-Down, and I prefer the Sit-Down quite a lot more. I think Wildfire is my favorite.
Wildfire at Silver Dollar City was my first ever looping coaster, and it still holds up as a solid ride today, even though it's pretty basic compared to the other sit-down loopers. I've ridden Kumba and Hulk, and I'd say Kumba is the best, Wildfire second, and Hulk third for the ones here in the US
Awesome. Thanks!
I agree, Wildfire is just so compact but forceful for its size and location.
Curved drop, vertical loop, dive loop, zero-g roll...
Station, lift hill, first drop, Vertical loop, dive loop, zero G roll, cobra roll, mid-course brake run, two corkscrews, final brake run, station.
Only been on wildfire but it was fantastic.
I always thought Led Zeppelin the Ride looked pretty lit. If it was cloned, I wouldn't complain.....because I'm sure most of us here haven't been on it
It certainly doesn't look bad. Pretty fun looking. I do think the helices at the end look pretty dull though.
I loved that ride and the music that went with it
I wish Carowinds( my home park) would get one. Maybe something like Led Zeppelin but go for the inversion record. I loved that ride and love inversions more than anything on coasters.
1:18 A dangling coaster!
I really like them and I wish there as more
Great video!! 👍
Thanks 😊
Really enjoyed the video! :)
Thanks! 🙂 I love doing the videos in this series. Unfortunately, it seems I'm running out of models to discuss that satisfy what I require for them to be talked about on this series, this being Episode 8! Hopefully I can do at least another one or two of these though!
I honestly love the design of the 90’s twister coasters they look better than the floorless ones
R.I.P
Arrow hyper mega loopers
I only rode Kumba and Time Machine and I personally like the floor because my feet are restless when they dangle
I love the B&M sitdowns! I wish they made more. Floorless coasters are worse to me, because being so elevated is not a good thing. The B&M rattle is far worse as you go higher, which also means headbanging is worse. But also, sitting low to the track makes it feel faster and makes it feel more intense. However, I do understand that the general public don't like intensity. I think the added intensity of sitting low to the track is what doomed sitdown coasters, even though I personally love them.
Ok. Good take!
Ayee my 2 fav coaster youtubers
B&M should bring back sit-down loopers with clamshell lap bars just like their Giga and Hyper coasters.
Kumba is still so elite
I've got that Led Zeppelin the Ride credit, pretty great coaster, too bad it had to close.
It looks pretty good 👍
Yes I’m glad I was able to get all the credits in that park before it closed
Great video guys!
Just the other day I was thinking about what could replace Demon at Six Flags Great America once metal fatigue and parts maintenance becomes too costly, and I thought of a big, shiny new B&M sit down looper! Great minds think alike.
It would be a good replacement but I'm positive it won't happen.
@@coasterdaddy7123 an enthusiast can dream, though. I'm a Kumba fanboy, so it's probably just me.
One thing that I would love to see happen but most likely won’t is Six Flags Great Adventure making Green Lantern a standard sit down roller coaster. They already have a floorless coaster that I would never want to see leave the park, so the best way to make Green Lantern more comfortable would be to give it standard sit down trains.
Others have suggested that and it would be nice if they could do that!
Nice work
Great video!
Thanks!
I think wild eagle at Dollywood was supposed to be either a sit down or floorless coaster till B&M pitched the idea of the wing as it doesn't have a standard wing coaster layout. They probably saw the design for Raptor at Gardaland and thought the wing would be a more visually appealing coaster.
It could have been. Someone else mentioned that before too. It would make sense.
Floor less Coasters are pretty much the same thing.
It would be cool if B&M would put sit down trains on stand up coasters at parks that already have a floorless coaster. A great candidate I think is Green Lantern at Great Adventure.
I agree!
I don't blame B&M for their predictability honestly. If they are doing what is comfortable for them and increases their safety record, then I am all for it :)
They haven’t just been doing what’s comfortable for them. They integrated an outward banked turn into Candymonium!
@@ryan_n05 true~~ but most of the time they do 😁
2:31 so arrow used roller coaster tycoon to make their coasters?
Haha actually the way RCT gave you predesigned elements is similar to how Arrow built their inversions, yep. Loops and corkscrews all of one size. Steel Phantom and Corkscrew both had the same size inversions.
Ive never been on a looper but im planning to get on wildfire for 2022 so thats cool and that will be my first b&m coaster
Nice!
I haven't been on a traditional B&M sitdown in a while, but IMO if they raise their seats about 2 inches (or maybe up one inch and back one inch) your feet wouldn't touch the floor on anything but the standup model. I gotta believe the traditional sit down looper would have to be significantly cheaper to build without all the technical intricacies of the folding floor. I'm a little surprised it didn't stick around. I wonder if that means that parks were finding easier to market a gimmick (floorless) more so than another element (inversion or more track length in general) that still wouldn't give them a new record to promote.
Yeah good points! I'm guessing it was likely more of a marketing thing, and of course that eventually died off too.
The trains of wildfire are the same as used on B&M Hypercoasters, where you can´t touch the floor. The only difference are the seats.
Also don't forget that Parks are starting to convert their old stand-ups into floorless coasters, which makes me wonder if a park already has a floorless and a stand-up if they could convert the stand-up into a sit down?
True! Other people have brought the standup to sit-down idea up, particularly with Green Lantern at Great Adventure. Someone said though (no way I can confirm mind you) that the heartlining of inversions are designed around a different point of the riders body on standups and sit-downs, and that's why the standups have become floorless because the floorless trains are designed with the same heartlining.
@@coasterdaddy7123 or riddlers revenge at SFMM since they already have scream.
Maybe SF Great Adventure should convert Green Lantern into a sit down since they already have a floorless or be the first park with two floorless coasters!
It would be great if they could add sit-down trains to it but someone suggested something that would make sense. They said B&M wouldn't be able to put regular sit-down trains on the standup because you would be sitting lower and B&M designed their regular sit-down loopers around a different heartline than their standups and floorless loopers.
I've got more hope for Vekolma to revive the sit down looper.
Absolutely!
Tbh after arrow and b&m stopped or went out. The main sit down looper creators were and still are mainly intamin and now vekoma. I'm sure there are a few others I'm missing but seeing as how a floorless coaster hasn't been built in a while those are the only 2 I can think of (edit) I do believe that the b&m sit-down will return in a clone of the incredible hulk at the universal Beijing park
great vid my guy
Thanks!
Rode Kumba in 1996 up until i rode Banshee at kings island Kumba was the best coaster i ridden
Please do a collaboration with GP To Enthusiast.
I feel that the 2016 Hulk Coaster often gets done dirty. Completely new track and trains means a new coaster for me. I'll always count the 2016 and 1999 rides as different credits. (Not that I have the 2016 credit)
I personally would count them as one.
I've ridden Kumba and Hulk. Those are the only traditional sit-down B&M's I've ridden.
Nice! Do you like them a lot?
@@coasterdaddy7123 They are among my favorite B&M's.
Would you consider the hulk retracking as a new coaster?
No I don't
airtime thrills is just like “hello”
Also floorless trains has less weight compared to sit down version
Is thunderbird the other launch b&m?
Yes! 😁
Can you retrofit a standup coaster to have sitdown trains?
I would think so but I don't know. They could definitely make custom sit down trains to replace the stand-ups I'm certain.
Im sure they could, floorless conversions are just more marketable though
No, Floorless and Standup coasters have the same heartline. The heartline on sit-down coasters is about 20cm lower. It would end up feeling uncomfortable and rough.
Mantis, at Cedar Point, was formerly, a standup, but, they made it a sit down, a few years ago.
It was converted to use the floorless trains though, not the standard sit-down trains.
They need to come back imo. Maybe with vests (I honestly don’t mind vests that much)
I don't mind the vests either!
Eh not a fan of the best restraints.
Imagine parks with only one manufacturer of rollercoasters. Such as an intamin park, b&m park, vekoma park🤮, Mack rides park
Mack owns Europa Park, so they manufacture many of their own rides, though there are a few exceptions. And Zamperla now owns Luna Park at Coney Island so they showcase many of their rides there. Other manufacturers over the years have owned small parks too.
Coaster Daddy Oh i didnt realize Europa was owned by Mack rides but that kinda makes sense now
Yep. And Zamperla owns Luna Park 😊
What trains would they use nowadays? None are even featured in Planet Coaster lol
gp be like : omygod bam made the dangling coaster?
Wildfire is a floorless but SDC was too cheap to build the floorless coaster station. Seriously it has a floorless coaster train with a floor, Its seats are raised up from the track compared to a normal B&M sitdown looper.
I only ride kumba at Busch Gardens Tampa because it's my home theme park
I'm curious to see what the hulk clone looks like
You can Google incredible hulk clone universal Beijing and see construction pictures.
@@coasterdaddy7123 I mean if it has vests, if it has sitdown trains etc.
You forgot to mention the Incredible Hulk revamp.
I really didn't think it was worthwhile honestly, it wouldn't have really added anything to the discussion. It's still the same exact ride, just new track. Other people may not agree, I don't know, but in any case it doesn't really change anything I discussed.
I subbed
I'm wanting to give this a like but I don't want to be the thumb up of 666. Good video.
Thanks! 😎