+Infidelamsterdam Hi Ed. Technically the organizers didn't violate his freedom of speech in a legal sense of the term because they can set up the terms and conditions arbitralily within certain limits. Of course this doesn't justify banning people who have unpopular believes.
+Korean Jesus No ofcourse, they make their own decisions....however, if they're gonna allow every other belief and lyrical theme, and exclude one...that to me seems a bit odd
+Narednik Lobanja There's nothing odd excluding racist hateful metal for the metal scene more than excluding creationist from biology magazines. You're rotten, you're not welcome. As some that listen's to metal 25+ years plus now, it's ugly to see how racist the metal community can be.
Oplinta Moshtak okay sound point, but where do you stop? If everyone went by that logic you would never had metal in any form. Metal is anti christian, morbid fascinated with death and gore. There is nothing odd with excluding racist metal, but it sets a dangerous precedan. If it starts once with a clear problem it will quickly devolve in a much much worse and will start censoring everything
I'm a black dude, and love metal. So by your logic, if I go to a show and someone pulls something like this I'm supposed to be ok with it because it's my fault?
@@Gemini_Samura1 no one said you should be fine with it, if you don't like something don't listen to or watch it then it won't be a problem for you simple as.
big b so just bar the black dude from going to a show cause we don’t care enough about booking the openly racist band? Get the fuck out of here with that segregation ahit
Absolutely fucking not. Listen, I don't agree with Phil's views, not the slightest, but as Voltaire said, "I disagree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it". What would happen if we were to ban "racist" metal? Well, why not also then ban Slam and Brutal Death Metal because their lyrical themes revolve disproportionally around female mutilation, abuse, dismemberment and torture and thus being "misogynistic"? Why not ban black metal for attacking religions like christianity and thus being "religiously insensitive"? Why not? Because metal is and always have been the epitome of freedom of speech, it has been the holy grail of free expression and has prided itself on it allowing expression no matter the degrees it goes to. We lose the core values of metal when we start censoring ourselves. Whether it's the exploration of topics like satanism, drugs, abuse, mental torment, pedophilia, torture, racism, broader politics, abstractions of the universe or just drinking a lot of beers, metal is the ONE SINGLE musical genre with the heart, passion and motherfucking soul to contain it all. None other. That's something to be fucking proud of. What would've happened to metal if we had self-censored back in the 70's or around that time because it was deemed "satanic". We simply wouldn't exist as metalheads.It woulve' put a giant fucking stick in the wheel and we would've gotten no further. Although I don't agree with some musician's personal views, I as a person still have the capacity to fucking LOVE their music, their artistry and their passion for music. Music is art, and art is meant to provoke, it's meant to make you think, to blast through and challenge pre-conceptions. We can't just say "this is racist, we're not going to have this" and then think that because we've censored something, that it just stops existing, because it won't stop existing... ...It'll just live on underground. Although what phil said and did was racist, I cannot fathom why people give this much of a fuck about it. We should be fucking mature enough to handle such topics. Metalheads! WE are the ones to criticize the governments illegal espionage on private citizens. WE are the ones to contrast conventional religions. WE are the ones to delve into lyrical themes unfathomable to any other musical genre. WE are the ones to stand up to social norms and disprove them. How many times has it been expected of a metalhead to be a mindless, evil brute, but actually, they're the nicest guys and girls ever? WE are the ones to stand our ground every single time the genre is attacked for whatever reason. Metal is the art of free and often times extreme expression, and that's what it was built upon from the very beginning. So in my eyes, you can't censor metal, without losing the heart of metal itself.
+Exmorted sadly a lot of people have bought into the self censorship believeing it is for the "greater good" and believing it will never happen to them
Narednik Lobanja Well that's because they've unfortunately been turned into massive fucking dribbling bellends. what has censorship ever done for the good of anything?
+OfficalRavoos Why doesn't it have a place in metal? Just because _you_ don't like it? It does have a place in metal, there are thousands who enjoy it and others who do not mind but they just like the music. So why not?
***** Manly because it's really childish in my honest opinion, and it just makes people are in to look like absolute shit. Again, I am not saying we should censore it (manly because it just makes it worse). But in my opinion, it have no place anywhere. However, we will find it everywhere.
+OfficalRavoos Everything has a plce in metal. The list of topics is reduced to the number of things that exists. That's one of the main reasons that I love it so much.
I think a lot of people don't quite understand what censorship truly is, or when it becomes a problem. It is perfectly acceptable for venues, festivals and music labels to drop a band because of their views and opinions. That is completely within their own right, and is in no way shape or form censorship. Festivals has a responsibility for the safety and well being of their fans, and having an outspoken white supremacist on the bill might be irresponsible. To a lot of people they might not exactly be okay with someone endorsing white supremacy infront of them, especially if they are an ethnic minority. Just imagine what it must be like to be a jewish person seeing someone endorsing the ideology that caused several millions of your people to be systemically murdered. Freedom of speech does not mean the freedom of criticism, scrutiny, or consequences. Free speech is supposed to protect you again governmental persecution, that means that you can't get arrested or killed for merely expressing your opinions. However, freedom of speech doesn't protect you from people calling you out, boycotting your art, or having someone tell you that you are a shitty dude or that they disagree with you. The good thing about freedom of speech is that i am able to say, say "hey, I am not going to this festival if this artists is going to do a set". That is completely within my rights, because I am not silencing or oppressing anyone. And it is NOT within the rights of any band to play a gig, because free speech is not the same as free and open entitlement to any given platform. That is why privately own websites like youtube are allowed to ban you from this site if you break the rules and guidelines they created. You can allow racism to exist, without enabling it, or letting it be a part of your own community. A festival is not obligated to put on a band that is racist, in fact if they want to they can have a very clear anti-racist agenda, and only put on bands that are against racism.
I thought about it more. If you allow racism and nazi views to be in a genre, you're essentially allowing those views to be around. It SHOULD NOT be around or accepted. It's garbage on every level. It should be put down and spat upon.
+alpinestarsssss Just because you disagree with it doesn't mean it shouldn't be accepted or "around" or that it's necessarily "wrong". It doesn't help to censor anything, the band members will still have their views, the views will still be "around". I'm not racist nor a nazi but I really couldn't care less if someone is. So what if some metal band has racist lyrics? So what if some people like those racist bands? It doesn't kill anyone to have racist lyrics playing on the radio. It's not the end of the world if you hear music that you disagree with. Why should you care.
The tragedy caused by left totalitarianism does not reflect on the beliefs of all left wing artists, holy fuck I hate communist Russia just as much as the next genocide hating folk because im a leftist.
+Aleks Gorlik Pleeeease tell me youre being sarcastic when saying fascism caused less deaths than anarchist (which has not exactly been around a lot) and socialist (wtf) forms of government when the holocaust is a fact of history, or did that not happen? :o
Well I enjoy Burzum, Graveland, Grand Belial's Key, Satanic Warmaster, Etc. so no I don't condone censorship, even for far right lyrical content. I don't like "Kill Whitey black power" rap crap, but I don't give two shits if it's made. If you don't like the music, deal with it and move on.
If this were the first incident, then I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on being racist, but it's not even close to the first time he's down something like this, so I pretty much have to believe he is a racist.
The people who criticize Phil for doing the Nazi salute are probably the same people who's favorite song is Slayers Angel of Death. Personally I have no issue with the white pride movement. There's black pride, Muslim pride, Asian pride, Trans pride, gay pride and god knows what else. Yet the second someone says white pride it suddenly becomes a hate issue. It seems that only white people are hateful for supporting their own culture. If you have no issue with bands talking about murder, rape, cannibalism, satanism, sacrifice, necrophilia etc then you got no place having an issue with National Socialist based lyrics. Metal is about freedom of expression, not restriction of it.
+a5teroth You make it sound like Slayer glorified the events and meaning behind the Angel of Death lyrics. You ill informed human. Most metal songs with controversial lyrics were to INFORM it's listeners of the shit that goes on in our world. At least the metal from the 80s-early 90s. Now we have all kinds of weird shit.
@@breakfastMcgull yeah because when someone says "black pride!" or "black power!" they totally dont think that their race us superior to others. all they want is equality!
Censored? Fuck no. The one thing I would probably die for is freedom of speech. Should we call them on their bullshit? Thats up to the person who saw the act
Never censor of freedom of speech but we can hold it against him you are allowed to say what you please and people are allowed to call you out on it works both ways.
And being a nazzi or a Satanist doesn't mean that you go killing people. Not everyone is an extremist. There are some really nice, rational and respectful people that get a bad name just because of what they or others label themselves.
+cdsmetalhead99 He said *extreme* leftists support white genocide and he's mostly correct, just like youre mostly correct about nazis supporting the extermination of jews.
+Tj Davis I've never met or heard of a single "extreme leftist" who supports any sort of genocide whatsoever. By "extreme leftism," are you referring to communists, anarchists, or what? Marx, Lenin, Kropotkin, etc. were all white.
Dam, racism goes back a long way further than what Anselmo did... the racism that was around in the 30s made white people lynch blacks due to stupid stereotypes...
Point is that rap is full of anti-white shit and no one gives a fuck. Take Tupac for an example. In metal you need to go really underground to find racist shit, like NSBM.
Mr. Struggle Snuggle I listen to a lot of different music, rap being one of them but i don't think rap is "anti-white". Music is music and if someone is anti-white, than THEY are anti-white, it shouldn't define the whole genre. Also, I think Tupac was a bad example. He had quite a few songs where he was against racism.
Nothing should be censored in metal. people should remember though that freedom of speech and freedom of expression does not exempt you from criticism and consequences that come with the freedom to express your self.
Dude, thats the first vid ive seen from youn in a long while and i already forgot how mindopening your videos are :) i wanna get into this mindset aswell :D
As a black man who listens to metal,I'm not for censoring anyone. I do believe that if you don't like something or are offended by it,you have the choice to just not listen to it. I as a listener have no power or right to censor anyone,no matter how hateful or ignorant their message may be. Yes I feel that racism and white supremacy,which I believe is ingrained deeper in my country's society than others want to admit,is terrible but so is murder,torture,rape,and killing someone for their faith. All of these things are common themes in metal. If people think that stuff is ok to listen to,then they are the last ones who should be getting offended by anything. To be honest,given Pantera's history with supporting the confederate flag,I'm not shocked or even upset with Phil having white supremacist views. I'm more upset at the bitch ass,bullshit excuse he tried to make for it. If that's how you feel then just be up front about it,stick by your views,and be prepared to face the consequences.
It's not about them not being alowed to say these things, but about how people react to it. They can say whatever they want, but people don't have to like it.
I couldn't agree more! I am in a goregrind band called Erectile Dysfunction, and our most recent show with Cemetery Rapist was cancelled because of his name. In fact, he was recently banned on Facebook for calling out a woman that he had met that wrote an article about the misogyny of metal and why it shouldn't be tolerated. I don't think it's fair that people can dictate what can and can't be expressed. And yea, I agree that white supremacy does tend to be more serious, but that is why people have the freedom to not go to those shows. In that instance, I can see why promotors might drop bands, but even then, it's not fair that something that used to be so liberating is now so policed.
What about all the black rappers make racist remarks about white people in their music?? Tupac has some pretty racist lyrics in some songs but everyone still loves him
Hey Ed! Just watched the video and pondered a bit on the topic itself. I watched every bit of news surrounding Phil's outburst with a semi-attention span, but I got the core pretty well. Having just watched your video as well, I can honestly say that I find your opinion pretty enlightening and right on the point - it gets all the more interesting because I have caught myself in the middle of such 'opinion denial' in the past, which is of course damn embarrassing. So for that matter, I definitely agree on you, even when it comes to Wilders! ;) However, there is one moment where my thoughts drifted off a bit. You mentioned how people immediately contract their anusses over the mentioning or 'heralding' of World War II, while nobody seems to care about medieval or Golden Age horrors like the many conquests on Jerusalem, the Belgian rule over Congo or just kolonialism in general. I wonder if you can agree on the following opinion: I feel, crudely spoken, that people generally (!!!) do not really care about what happened in a far away land or in a nearby village about 10,000 years ago, so to say. So in that way, neither medieval carnages in the name of God, nor walling away a people like Israel has been doing for quite some time now, does not really hit people because they are just not so related to it. World War II is something they heard about from their grandparents, saw relicts or re-enactments of battles or maybe even survived it themselves. Add to that the fact that it spanned over all of Europe and that it has not been a 100 years since (compared to World War I, which was 100 years and which is already kind of vanishing), and then I get the feeling that people just care more when it is closer to home and closer to their time. Then again, do you hear about Charlie Hebdo, the Bataclan massacre or the fire in the Romanian club now? Nope... So, I know this is a long post and I know it may be a bit of an obvious opinion, but I wondered how you would see it. I also added this because I kind of felt like missing this in the video. But hey, that's just my opinion! Maybe I should distance myself of that opinion... They seem kind of dangerous these days... :p
@@dwaalgeest8591 in your opinion it sucks, and why tf would you care about what someone likes, he likes sex pistols, i frickin hate it but that doesnt mean that he cant like sex pistols....WTF MAN
Best way you could have ever put it man, I've been a fan since near the beginning of your channel, you're one of maybe 5 you tubers that I've followed for that amount of time that hasn't lost any respect or support whatsoever.
It's a really difficult issue. I personally like Arghoslent, who are horribly racist but musically outstanding. Not being racist myself, I had something of a dilemma about whether I should listen to a band with such abhorrent lyrics and themes. I personally decided that the music was more important than the lyrical content and listening to a racist group didn't make me a racist. I think everyone else should be able to make that decision themselves. I personally feel that one of the core tenets of metal is that people should be allowed to think and say what they like without judgement and I believe that applies to both the listeners and the musicians.
I love Panteras music Phil has a very power voice and think he is very talented but his politics and beliefs I disagree with. I love Burzums music but don't like him as a person. We can not try to censor anything that is said unless it insites violence or inequality towards anyone. Say what you believe be a man or woman and except the consequences that come with your views. This is entertainment for the most part and not real life the majority of people know it takes all kinds of different people to make distribute and sale the art that these musicians create and I don't see these artist giving back a single penny they made because the hand of the people they hate touched their product
One of the most underrated death metal albums, in my opinion, is Galloping Through the Battle Ruins by Arghoslent. The drums are crushing, the riffs are searing and the production is clear with the right amount of grit. Musically, I'm a fan of theirs, but their lyrics on the other hand I find repulsive. It would be a shame to loose some fantastic songs because some people may not like the words they have to say.
+John Benoit I struggled if I should buy their music or not... but in the end the riffs were too awesome and I got all 3 CDs... still hating their views though
I struggled myself with buying their music. But in the end, I feel it is better for people to express hateful views through harmless music than acts of violence.
Great video and I agree with you completely. Everyone is free to think and say whatever they want but they aren't immune to feeling the backlash from it either. My biggest gripe with the Phil situation in particular is that it really takes away from what otherwise was a great night honoring one of the best and biggest hearts to ever participate in the metal genre we love so much. It was a huge lapse of taste and judgement on Phil's part in that context.
I can never stand for censorship. I may not agree with what someone says but I would give my life for them to have the right to say it. Censorship is in my opinion a slippery slope in my opinion it's much more dangerous. I am getting to the point where I am offended by everyone taking offence by everything. I am against what Phil said but I absolutely support his right to say whatever he wants. Thank you for posting this video, it says pretty much everything I have been thinking on this subject. Political correctness will oppress us more in the end than any point of view it may be won't to suppress. Anyway I think your video needs to be seen by every side of this discussion. At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, I think the powers that be is trying to push this political correctness into every facet of our lives, once one person's right is taken the rest shall fall, we need to fight back while we can. Horns up comrade!
Nothing should ever be censored in art. However, racism is antithetical to the philosophy of metal. Metal has always been an inclusive genre for all who enjoy extreme music, and any sort of exclusion based on sex, race or sexual preference has no place and should not be tolerated at all in the community. People like Phil feed into the generalizations that people who like metal are a bunch of loud, aggressive hateful xenophobic people, which anyone who likes metal knows is not true. But he represents us if nobody says anything. There is a lot of brushing aside of issues of racism, sexism and homophobia in the metal community, and I think this incident should start a dialogue about those things. If we want to be taken seriously by others as an art from and a community, we have to be willing to hold the mirror to each other and discuss these issues like adults. Otherwise there really is no community, at least not the all inclusive friendly community many people claim exists.
that Some people or Festivals boycott a band, has nothing to do with censorship. So, i as a jew from germany and an anarchist i may have a Diffrent Oppinion on this Topic. To keep Freedom for everybody, we musst Protect it from Facism, Racism, Homophobia, antisemitism etc. All this is not an oppinion you can disagree on, it is allways a form of Opression and will evolve into Violence at somepointe.
+Alex Fremder So what you are saying is that for everyone to be free, we have to limit the freedoms of some? It is a difficult topic, on one hand I believe that people should have the right to freedom of speech and the freedom to take any political stance. On the other hand I would love for nothing more then to censor and punish religious extremists, radical Christians and Islamists. So how do we solve this? Any ideas?
+JohnDiabol How can people live freely if others have the "freedom" to build fascism? We must oppose oppressive ideas whenever they are exposed. Freedom of speech shouldn't protect people from the consequences of their speech. Shouting "White power!" and doing Hitler salutes is violent, so it should be violently opposed.
The thing is that, yes everyone has their right to an opinion, how twisted and fucked up that opinion may be in the eyes of the majority, everyone has the right to one. HOWEVER, when you start putting an opinion which you know is not only offensive to a very large audience, but can also be dangerous in spreadinig hate, into music. THEN its a whole diffrent story. See I believe everybody deserves an opinion and the ability to voice their opinion. I don't believe however everybody deserves a platform. So that's why I believe yes we should allow all views in music, but we, as fans, shouldn't support it if we disagree with the message, especially if its aimed at spreading hate. Even if we like the songs, we shouldn't support it. I have been a Pantera fan for quite some years but I stopped listening to their music eventhough I like many of their songs. But I see my own values as being more imprtant than my taste in music.
This was a really good video about freedom of speech. Some people usually forget what that means because it not what they say that is the problem its when they act on those feelings of hate where it becomes the problem. Just because you say something negative doesn't mean they'll just say okay and walk away, but you just made yourself into a treat. Somethings are always better left un said, because in the end you may regret it and be looked at as a villain.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Common Sense Show! Here is your host, Ed! But seriously though, you always seems to tell the right thing and express your opinion very well. I really enjoy watching videos like this.
Okay, for the last week or so I've been thinking about this matter quite often and I think I have come to my conclusion on how I feel. No, artists should never be censored, regardless of their views. All views have a place in metal, whether it be anti-religious, Christian and even white supremacist. For those who don't adhere to certain ideologies, just don't listen honestly. People should respect one other and not rain on another's parade. In a perfect world, people should just realize music is just music at the core of all things. Just try to enjoy everything you can out of it. If morals conflict, theres nothing wrong with that, but don't go about calling for the silence of those you disagree with. There's tons of other music out there for you to enjoy. Racism is a terrible thing, there is no question about that, but we all have the capacity to ignore those we don't see eye to eye with. At the end of the day let them do their own thing Just my two cents, but hey I'm a jew that listens to Arghoslent and Burzum every now and then so what do I know?
I'm commenting as I go, so haven't watched the full vid yet. If so, I'll edit this coment. One thing - Not listening to a band because of band members believes? I find it kind of stupid. One should learn to distinguish maker from what he makes. If I were to do that, then I shouldn't listen anything, pretty much. Yet - I, as a Christian (I believe in God, not the church), have no problem with listening to bands like Burzum, Behemoth or Arkona. Of course, there are songs that I avoid, but those are just some songs, not whole bands. Same goes with literature - If I were to judge creation by it's creator, then I shouldn't read, let's say Crime and Punishment, because Fyodor Dostoyevsky was strongly anti Polish. People should distinguish creator from his creation. People also should learn from and respect their enemies, as one can learn a lot this way.
Problem with freedom of speech is that everyone has a right to say anything, shortly speaking. BUT this means, that people can say what they want, then someone other might say, that person one has no right to say that. Person 2 has no right (in general) to make an act of censorship, but has the right to say that it should be censored. I know, it's twisted, but I see it that way. It's up to the people to know not to argue and agree to disagree on certain topics at a certain point. Yet a nice conversation is always good. Just like me - I believe in God, yet I have a Satanist as a friend. We sometimes speak about some things regarding satanism and christianism. We just know when to stop.
Really liked this video i enjoyed your logical and reasoned approach to the issue. much better than the videos other youtubers especially have released.
This is one of the reasons I actively avoid finding out details about the bands I love. You're gonna find something out about the musicians that you don''t agree with and that would color your opinion of their music. I'm not interested in gossip or personalities, I'm interested in the music.
If we censored so called "racist Metal bands", we'd then have to censor every other band that has unpopular views/lyrics. And pretty soon, there'd be no more Metal. If you don't like something, ignore it and focus on something you do like. Great video mate!! \m/
+Infidelamsterdam Well its a long story, but to make a long story short,3 years ago when there was an UEFA European Championship,on her facebook wall,she said how she was "shocked" because of all the anti-semitism(she also mentioned racism but thats not the point in this case), that was happening at stadiums during the championship.She is also like some kind of "anti-fascist" and has pro refugee views on this whole crisis that is going on,and she gets mad every time someone insults muslims.In my opinion that is ok,because she can think whatever she wants,BUT she has a negative views on christianity and even sang anti christian lyrics when she was in Arch Enemy.So basically she thinks that it is ok to insult christianity,but insulting judaism or islam is unacceptable.NOTE:Im not a racist,"islamophobe",nazi or any other shit
+einherjar1020 Ah ok! Yeah I see what you're getting at. Thanks for telling that, I had no idea that she was like this...but indeed, that's hypocrisy in it's purest form.
It was a spur of the moment thing on stage and Phil got caught up in the moment. Go take a nap people and If you don't like it then don't fucking listen. There is definitely more important shit we need to worry about in the world than a musician on stage with his arm up lol.
You really speak Sense in this video ! It´s just like you said ! Nobody complains about the sick ass lyrics of some Gore and Death Metal Bands, or even Black Metal Bands, but everyone is making a Drama of this Phil Issue ! It´s just hipocritical to me ! Thumbs up for your intelligent reflection on this one !
We shouldn't censor racist metal, but we should condemn it the same as anything racist, because humanity has come to a point where we're damn sure your "race" doesn't determine your worth as a person. That someone says stupid things doesn't matter, but it matters when they go around burning places and killing people in virtue of the stupid things they said.
Hi, I'm a great fan of Burzum and honestly the only thing that I didn't agree with you was the label you give to Varg Vikernes. He had a unfortunate past related nationalism and some crimes indeed, but that's past. His actual views are actually quite interesting. He writed 2 very intersting books about european ancestry and mythology, composed a very elaborated Fantasy RPG game ("My Farog") and has a very interesting youtube chanel ("Thulean Perspective) with very good quotes. His music is about European (specially Norse) Culture and Fantasy and never about Fascism, National Socialism or other radical ideas. He's living in France and his wife have actually very good reviews about archeollogy. He's a Odhalist (reviving the pre christian european values and traditions; what I don't consider wrong) and a prepper (many people criticise a preppers becouse they like to live in a self-reliant way, but honestly what's wrong with it?) Yup, he doesn't like christianity but he's heathen. Compreensible!!! As heathen myself, I've met a lot of people (specially celtic pagan, greek pagan and heathen) that don't like Christianity (I didn't say that don't like christians...) and when I go read articles of any kind about the violent conversion of european folk makes me sick... ...But that doesn't mean that there's racism there. I have great pride on being Portuguese and being European and follow european standards and at a same time being a heathen, in part becouse it's a european native religion (I did'nt say that becouse I want promove it like some fuckin' jehovah witness...) - THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT I AM RACIST!!!... or even Varg... ...Politically correct, cultural marxism and progressivism blamed...just saying... It separates more people in Europe in the XXI than racism... BTW!!!...I started a Death Rock band recently and my drummer is Pakistani and muslin ;) As I said before the rest of your review I totally agree :) Best regards from Portugal! \m/ Long live to Metal \m/ Long live to Rock'n Roll \m/
Hating christianity is hating an idea, or hating people for what they CHOOSE to do...Hating other races is hating someone for being BORN that way...There is the difference...
if you censor ideas, then nobody can ever understand them well enough to truly denounce them. Let the public arena itself find truth instead of making certain ideas off limits
First of all, this is a great example of disproving a stereotype: metal=stupid. Still a few things to think about. Read me out, we'll be cool: 1-Many people think that the right to free speech and free expression is an excuse to propagate hatred. They are wrong. 2-Sometimes music and lyrics do not agree: I love Varg's music, but I hate his lyrics and thoughts. Although I love the music, I'd rather eat my family jewels than buy the !@#$ record. The same goes for a lot of skinhead Oi; I love the music, but their views... 3-no matter how much I disagree with someone''s lyrics, I will not start a f@##ing pogrom to shut them down. Like you say, each of us has a right to expression. Just don't expect me to buy the album. 4-Cold coffee sucks, I know. Yeah, 4 years later, but still thanks for this point of view. From Groningen, keep it up
Just a random bit of trivia but Burzum lyrics literally have no racism and politics on them tho. Most of Varg's questionable views only became public well after he recorded them, during his prison time.
I'm speaking from someone who lives in South Africa. This country has been suffering from the scourge of racism for as long as time can remember. If I can explain to you the pain and death that racism has caused in this country you will understand why racism is bad. Here we also believe in freedom of speech and expression however you have to still be responsible for your words and your actions. In my opinion there is no place for racism in any form of society, and especially our music! Sure you can have your prejudices towards religion however religion is a choice whereas being white, black, Asian etc is not a choice. In South Africa you can be arrested for racism because it is viewed as hate speak. So in my opinion if you want to listen to and support racism it is your own choice, however it shouldn't be censored in music in any form. I choose not to support it, and that's what it comes down to at the end of it all.
Tbh, I knew what Pantera were all bout, especially rockin the Confederate Flags and where they were from. I never really got into Pantera (Panther) but I respect their success and agreed they made there mark in metal. Phil can be whoever he is, if he quits drugs then I can believe his apology. He did not offend me, he just looked like a fool on stage, and not even surprised he would do such a thing. Let him drink his "white wine", sniff "white powder" in his White Power world.
I’m drastically opposed to nazism however, I’d rather know nazis are expressing their hatred through music than by, let’s say, physically hurting people.
+xnothingnessx I am not gonna mingle in this discussion, but I knew up front that there were gonna be some heavy discussions. But I can't let that stop me from making these kinds of videos.
I'm something of an oddball as far as metal fans go, and I'm not really big on the idea of racial supremacy (I do believe that self-identification as part of a race and racial pride isn't a bad thing), but this is simply a matter of logic. Censoring certain types of music because they strike you as inappropriate is stupid, you don't defeat Fascism by turning into Fascists.
If you censor one type of metal you censor all types of metal. Nothing should be censored
+Narednik Lobanja
Exactly!
+Infidelamsterdam Hi Ed. Technically the organizers didn't violate his freedom of speech in a legal sense of the term because they can set up the terms and conditions arbitralily within certain limits. Of course this doesn't justify banning people who have unpopular believes.
+Korean Jesus
No ofcourse, they make their own decisions....however, if they're gonna allow every other belief and lyrical theme, and exclude one...that to me seems a bit odd
+Narednik Lobanja
There's nothing odd excluding racist hateful metal for the metal scene more than excluding creationist from biology magazines. You're rotten, you're not welcome.
As some that listen's to metal 25+ years plus now, it's ugly to see how racist the metal community can be.
Oplinta Moshtak okay sound point, but where do you stop? If everyone went by that logic you would never had metal in any form. Metal is anti christian, morbid fascinated with death and gore. There is nothing odd with excluding racist metal, but it sets a dangerous precedan. If it starts once with a clear problem it will quickly devolve in a much much worse and will start censoring everything
Just imagine metal with trigger warnings....
That is Metalcore, you are talking about.
Bring me the horizon fans
+George W Kush That cracked me up but I think we can both agree that Bring Me The Horizon is the farthest thing from Metal
+Mike Corcoran New stuff, I agree, is not metal. But bmth's old music could be classed as it, especially Count your Blessings.
+Mortiis558 Emo kids....
nothing should be censored. if you dont like it dont buy or see the show.. simple as that
+Jason West Right... but nothing so far has been censorship, it is within the festivals right to drop a band from their bill if they see fit.
I'm a black dude, and love metal. So by your logic, if I go to a show and someone pulls something like this I'm supposed to be ok with it because it's my fault?
Stop defending racism you piece of shit
@@Gemini_Samura1 no one said you should be fine with it, if you don't like something don't listen to or watch it then it won't be a problem for you simple as.
big b so just bar the black dude from going to a show cause we don’t care enough about booking the openly racist band? Get the fuck out of here with that segregation ahit
"Should ____ be censored?"
answer: "No."
Absolutely fucking not.
Listen, I don't agree with Phil's views, not the slightest, but as Voltaire said, "I disagree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it".
What would happen if we were to ban "racist" metal? Well, why not also then ban Slam and Brutal Death Metal because their lyrical themes revolve disproportionally around female mutilation, abuse, dismemberment and torture and thus being "misogynistic"? Why not ban black metal for attacking religions like christianity and thus being "religiously insensitive"?
Why not?
Because metal is and always have been the epitome of freedom of speech, it has been the holy grail of free expression and has prided itself on it allowing expression no matter the degrees it goes to. We lose the core values of metal when we start censoring ourselves. Whether it's the exploration of topics like satanism, drugs, abuse, mental torment, pedophilia, torture, racism, broader politics, abstractions of the universe or just drinking a lot of beers, metal is the ONE SINGLE musical genre with the heart, passion and motherfucking soul to contain it all. None other. That's something to be fucking proud of.
What would've happened to metal if we had self-censored back in the 70's or around that time because it was deemed "satanic". We simply wouldn't exist as metalheads.It woulve' put a giant fucking stick in the wheel and we would've gotten no further.
Although I don't agree with some musician's personal views, I as a person still have the capacity to fucking LOVE their music, their artistry and their passion for music. Music is art, and art is meant to provoke, it's meant to make you think, to blast through and challenge pre-conceptions.
We can't just say "this is racist, we're not going to have this" and then think that because we've censored something, that it just stops existing, because it won't stop existing... ...It'll just live on underground.
Although what phil said and did was racist, I cannot fathom why people give this much of a fuck about it. We should be fucking mature enough to handle such topics.
Metalheads!
WE are the ones to criticize the governments illegal espionage on private citizens.
WE are the ones to contrast conventional religions.
WE are the ones to delve into lyrical themes unfathomable to any other musical genre.
WE are the ones to stand up to social norms and disprove them. How many times has it been expected of a metalhead to be a mindless, evil brute, but actually, they're the nicest guys and girls ever?
WE are the ones to stand our ground every single time the genre is attacked for whatever reason.
Metal is the art of free and often times extreme expression, and that's what it was built upon from the very beginning. So in my eyes, you can't censor metal, without losing the heart of metal itself.
Or in short: Freedom of fucking speech.
Hass Erfüllt Pretty much, yeah.
+Exmorted sadly a lot of people have bought into the self censorship believeing it is for the "greater good" and believing it will never happen to them
Narednik Lobanja Well that's because they've unfortunately been turned into massive fucking dribbling bellends.
what has censorship ever done for the good of anything?
***** exactly that, censorhip has always made things much worse
Censorship definition: "My voice should be heard..._yours_ should NOT though.'
Does it have a place in metal? No, but we will find it everywhere. Should we censore it? No, we are adults. This is how I see it.
+OfficalRavoos
Why doesn't it have a place in metal? Just because _you_ don't like it? It does have a place in metal, there are thousands who enjoy it and others who do not mind but they just like the music. So why not?
*****
Manly because it's really childish in my honest opinion, and it just makes people are in to look like absolute shit. Again, I am not saying we should censore it (manly because it just makes it worse). But in my opinion, it have no place anywhere. However, we will find it everywhere.
+OfficalRavoos Everything has a plce in metal. The list of topics is reduced to the number of things that exists. That's one of the main reasons that I love it so much.
+gentiluomo povero I see your point.
FORWARD* assist I see your point too.
I'm a black old school metal head and I agree with you 101 percent, great channel
Darryl Richardson Thanks! Glad you like it! 🤘🏻👌🏻
Darryl would you happen to live in Baton Rouge? If so this is Kris from catholicon.
@@TempleofAmon666 Hey Kris yes it is me, Im back in Baton Rouge now
Hey Kris get back in touch
@@Darrylrich225 the real Darryl would have said, greetings. Haha, I’ll hit you up after work
So, 3 years later and this has only gotten worse. I guess that's what happens when hipsters discover metal.
Just say your racist and shit stfu
@@raulsalome7038 ok, i’m racist and shit
I think a lot of people don't quite understand what censorship truly is, or when it becomes a problem. It is perfectly acceptable for venues, festivals and music labels to drop a band because of their views and opinions. That is completely within their own right, and is in no way shape or form censorship.
Festivals has a responsibility for the safety and well being of their fans, and having an outspoken white supremacist on the bill might be irresponsible. To a lot of people they might not exactly be okay with someone endorsing white supremacy infront of them, especially if they are an ethnic minority. Just imagine what it must be like to be a jewish person seeing someone endorsing the ideology that caused several millions of your people to be systemically murdered.
Freedom of speech does not mean the freedom of criticism, scrutiny, or consequences. Free speech is supposed to protect you again governmental persecution, that means that you can't get arrested or killed for merely expressing your opinions. However, freedom of speech doesn't protect you from people calling you out, boycotting your art, or having someone tell you that you are a shitty dude or that they disagree with you.
The good thing about freedom of speech is that i am able to say, say "hey, I am not going to this festival if this artists is going to do a set". That is completely within my rights, because I am not silencing or oppressing anyone. And it is NOT within the rights of any band to play a gig, because free speech is not the same as free and open entitlement to any given platform. That is why privately own websites like youtube are allowed to ban you from this site if you break the rules and guidelines they created.
You can allow racism to exist, without enabling it, or letting it be a part of your own community. A festival is not obligated to put on a band that is racist, in fact if they want to they can have a very clear anti-racist agenda, and only put on bands that are against racism.
No words should be censored.
I agree
I think racist metal, lyrically, is immature garbage, but no it should not be censored
I thought about it more. If you allow racism and nazi views to be in a genre, you're essentially allowing those views to be around. It SHOULD NOT be around or accepted. It's garbage on every level.
It should be put down and spat upon.
+alpinestarsssss
Just because you disagree with it doesn't mean it shouldn't be accepted or "around" or that it's necessarily "wrong". It doesn't help to censor anything, the band members will still have their views, the views will still be "around".
I'm not racist nor a nazi but I really couldn't care less if someone is. So what if some metal band has racist lyrics? So what if some people like those racist bands? It doesn't kill anyone to have racist lyrics playing on the radio. It's not the end of the world if you hear music that you disagree with. Why should you care.
The tragedy caused by left totalitarianism does not reflect on the beliefs of all left wing artists, holy fuck I hate communist Russia just as much as the next genocide hating folk because im a leftist.
+Aleks Gorlik Pleeeease tell me youre being sarcastic when saying fascism caused less deaths than anarchist (which has not exactly been around a lot) and socialist (wtf) forms of government when the holocaust is a fact of history,
or did that not happen? :o
+alpinestarsssss your words mean just about nothing, elaborate in detail or save the teen angst
I blame the media for this outbreak
Nothing should be censored.
Well I enjoy Burzum, Graveland, Grand Belial's Key, Satanic Warmaster, Etc. so no I don't condone censorship, even for far right lyrical content. I don't like "Kill Whitey black power" rap crap, but I don't give two shits if it's made. If you don't like the music, deal with it and move on.
I can always count on you for a well thought-out and interesting video. Thanks!
Also, badass...Woods of Ypres! RIP Dave \m/
+theESPguitarist
Thanks for the compliment my friend, and indeed Woods rules!
He apologized twenty times in twenty ways. He's an idiot, not a racist.
Nah, he's definitely both
I doubt he's a racist, regardless, racism has no place in metal. Trying to rationalize it is pathetic.
If this were the first incident, then I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on being racist, but it's not even close to the first time he's down something like this, so I pretty much have to believe he is a racist.
+Oplinta Moshtak Fuck you.
+Oplinta Moshtak He's definitely racist, if closeted. Only racist people say that type of shit.
"If you want to know who rules over you look to who you can't criticize"Voltaire.......
The people who criticize Phil for doing the Nazi salute are probably the same people who's favorite song is Slayers Angel of Death. Personally I have no issue with the white pride movement. There's black pride, Muslim pride, Asian pride, Trans pride, gay pride and god knows what else. Yet the second someone says white pride it suddenly becomes a hate issue. It seems that only white people are hateful for supporting their own culture. If you have no issue with bands talking about murder, rape, cannibalism, satanism, sacrifice, necrophilia etc then you got no place having an issue with National Socialist based lyrics. Metal is about freedom of expression, not restriction of it.
+a5teroth You make it sound like Slayer glorified the events and meaning behind the Angel of Death lyrics. You ill informed human. Most metal songs with controversial lyrics were to INFORM it's listeners of the shit that goes on in our world. At least the metal from the 80s-early 90s. Now we have all kinds of weird shit.
Pride is a stupid concept.
Because context in terms of pride doesn't matter, right?
@@breakfastMcgull yeah because when someone says "black pride!" or "black power!" they totally dont think that their race us superior to others. all they want is equality!
Censored? Fuck no. The one thing I would probably die for is freedom of speech. Should we call them on their bullshit? Thats up to the person who saw the act
Never censor of freedom of speech but we can hold it against him you are allowed to say what you please and people are allowed to call you out on it works both ways.
If even metal starts to censor itself...
And being a nazzi or a Satanist doesn't mean that you go killing people. Not everyone is an extremist. There are some really nice, rational and respectful people that get a bad name just because of what they or others label themselves.
+bloodsord9 are you genuinely saying that nazis are okay because "they might be nice people!!!"
+Aleks Gorlik I'm a white leftist. Are you implying that I support the extermination of myself? You're a fascist moron.
+Max Payne Yeah, okay. I'll be waiting for that day.
+cdsmetalhead99 He said *extreme* leftists support white genocide and he's mostly correct, just like youre mostly correct about nazis supporting the extermination of jews.
+Tj Davis I've never met or heard of a single "extreme leftist" who supports any sort of genocide whatsoever. By "extreme leftism," are you referring to communists, anarchists, or what? Marx, Lenin, Kropotkin, etc. were all white.
if you wanna censor racism start with rap.
Dam, racism goes back a long way further than what Anselmo did...
the racism that was around in the 30s made white people lynch blacks due to stupid stereotypes...
Eminem is one of the most famous rapper, and hes white. Whats your point?
Point is that rap is full of anti-white shit and no one gives a fuck. Take Tupac for an example. In metal you need to go really underground to find racist shit, like NSBM.
Mr. Struggle Snuggle I listen to a lot of different music, rap being one of them but i don't think rap is "anti-white". Music is music and if someone is anti-white, than THEY are anti-white, it shouldn't define the whole genre. Also, I think Tupac was a bad example. He had quite a few songs where he was against racism.
Mr. Struggle Snuggle how is pac anti white?
Nothing should be censored in metal. people should remember though that freedom of speech and freedom of expression does not exempt you from criticism and consequences that come with the freedom to express your self.
Damn I actually fucked with Pantera and I'm black. But now I'm not so sure.... I love all metal but damn please don't get racist on me
Only us minorities understand your comment while the majority disagrees.
Orangecoounty ,would I be a minority?
I'm a hermphrodite who loves heavy metal
Dude, thats the first vid ive seen from youn in a long while and i already forgot how mindopening your videos are :)
i wanna get into this mindset aswell :D
Probably the most rational video I've seen about the subject.
As a black man who listens to metal,I'm not for censoring anyone. I do believe that if you don't like something or are offended by it,you have the choice to just not listen to it. I as a listener have no power or right to censor anyone,no matter how hateful or ignorant their message may be. Yes I feel that racism and white supremacy,which I believe is ingrained deeper in my country's society than others want to admit,is terrible but so is murder,torture,rape,and killing someone for their faith. All of these things are common themes in metal. If people think that stuff is ok to listen to,then they are the last ones who should be getting offended by anything. To be honest,given Pantera's history with supporting the confederate flag,I'm not shocked or even upset with Phil having white supremacist views. I'm more upset at the bitch ass,bullshit excuse he tried to make for it. If that's how you feel then just be up front about it,stick by your views,and be prepared to face the consequences.
Anyway all the people who are upset with Phil Anselmo is happy watching South Park on TV :v
Censoring some thing only gives it more power.
It's not about them not being alowed to say these things, but about how people react to it. They can say whatever they want, but people don't have to like it.
I couldn't agree more! I am in a goregrind band called Erectile Dysfunction, and our most recent show with Cemetery Rapist was cancelled because of his name. In fact, he was recently banned on Facebook for calling out a woman that he had met that wrote an article about the misogyny of metal and why it shouldn't be tolerated. I don't think it's fair that people can dictate what can and can't be expressed. And yea, I agree that white supremacy does tend to be more serious, but that is why people have the freedom to not go to those shows. In that instance, I can see why promotors might drop bands, but even then, it's not fair that something that used to be so liberating is now so policed.
Racist metal is, for all intents and purposes, already censored.
I'd also like to say Rob Flynn seems to have had a change of heart since the days of "Slanderous"
What about all the black rappers make racist remarks about white people in their music?? Tupac has some pretty racist lyrics in some songs but everyone still loves him
lol and they are not underground rappers who do that its the mainstream rappers aswell.
name one!
510,that's a case of name calling.. it's not racist..
the way that they talk about women in their material is what bothers me
"It ain't about black and white cause we're human, I hope we see the light before its ruined" - Tupac
Yeah, sounds really racist lol
Loooool
Hey Ed!
Just watched the video and pondered a bit on the topic itself. I watched every bit of news surrounding Phil's outburst with a semi-attention span, but I got the core pretty well.
Having just watched your video as well, I can honestly say that I find your opinion pretty enlightening and right on the point - it gets all the more interesting because I have caught myself in the middle of such 'opinion denial' in the past, which is of course damn embarrassing. So for that matter, I definitely agree on you, even when it comes to Wilders! ;)
However, there is one moment where my thoughts drifted off a bit. You mentioned how people immediately contract their anusses over the mentioning or 'heralding' of World War II, while nobody seems to care about medieval or Golden Age horrors like the many conquests on Jerusalem, the Belgian rule over Congo or just kolonialism in general. I wonder if you can agree on the following opinion:
I feel, crudely spoken, that people generally (!!!) do not really care about what happened in a far away land or in a nearby village about 10,000 years ago, so to say. So in that way, neither medieval carnages in the name of God, nor walling away a people like Israel has been doing for quite some time now, does not really hit people because they are just not so related to it. World War II is something they heard about from their grandparents, saw relicts or re-enactments of battles or maybe even survived it themselves. Add to that the fact that it spanned over all of Europe and that it has not been a 100 years since (compared to World War I, which was 100 years and which is already kind of vanishing), and then I get the feeling that people just care more when it is closer to home and closer to their time. Then again, do you hear about Charlie Hebdo, the Bataclan massacre or the fire in the Romanian club now? Nope...
So, I know this is a long post and I know it may be a bit of an obvious opinion, but I wondered how you would see it. I also added this because I kind of felt like missing this in the video. But hey, that's just my opinion!
Maybe I should distance myself of that opinion... They seem kind of dangerous these days... :p
Nothing should be censored!
Sex Pistols and Absurd are 2 of my favorite bands. Like it or not
Both bands suck. What the hell, man?
@@dwaalgeest8591 in your opinion it sucks, and why tf would you care about what someone likes, he likes sex pistols, i frickin hate it but that doesnt mean that he cant like sex pistols....WTF MAN
Absurd? You actually like their music?
@@brianhueber3683 yup
@@Stigmatix666 lol
Best way you could have ever put it man, I've been a fan since near the beginning of your channel, you're one of maybe 5 you tubers that I've followed for that amount of time that hasn't lost any respect or support whatsoever.
"this is a topic, a hot topic not the shitty store" Lmao XD
Damn... That's a big cd collection dude. \m/
It's a really difficult issue. I personally like Arghoslent, who are horribly racist but musically outstanding. Not being racist myself, I had something of a dilemma about whether I should listen to a band with such abhorrent lyrics and themes. I personally decided that the music was more important than the lyrical content and listening to a racist group didn't make me a racist. I think everyone else should be able to make that decision themselves. I personally feel that one of the core tenets of metal is that people should be allowed to think and say what they like without judgement and I believe that applies to both the listeners and the musicians.
+STBCOW same issue with same band here
I love Panteras music Phil has a very power voice and think he is very talented but his politics and beliefs I disagree with. I love Burzums music but don't like him as a person. We can not try to censor anything that is said unless it insites violence or inequality towards anyone. Say what you believe be a man or woman and except the consequences that come with your views. This is entertainment for the most part and not real life the majority of people know it takes all kinds of different people to make distribute and sale the art that these musicians create and I don't see these artist giving back a single penny they made because the hand of the people they hate touched their product
Cool video Ed. Some really good points raised. Got an air of nostalgia from what some of your older videos were about. Hope to see more.
no it shouldnt. music is about expressing yourself
hey ed. are you ever going to make the worst/disappointing albums or tracks of 2015?
One of the most underrated death metal albums, in my opinion, is Galloping Through the Battle Ruins by Arghoslent. The drums are crushing, the riffs are searing and the production is clear with the right amount of grit. Musically, I'm a fan of theirs, but their lyrics on the other hand I find repulsive. It would be a shame to loose some fantastic songs because some people may not like the words they have to say.
+John Benoit I struggled if I should buy their music or not... but in the end the riffs were too awesome and I got all 3 CDs...
still hating their views though
I struggled myself with buying their music. But in the end, I feel it is better for people to express hateful views through harmless music than acts of violence.
Great video and I agree with you completely. Everyone is free to think and say whatever they want but they aren't immune to feeling the backlash from it either. My biggest gripe with the Phil situation in particular is that it really takes away from what otherwise was a great night honoring one of the best and biggest hearts to ever participate in the metal genre we love so much. It was a huge lapse of taste and judgement on Phil's part in that context.
No. Next question.
Wow, that was the most balanced video to this topic I have seen so far. People with such an open mind to BOTH sides seem rare in times of division.
Still watch videos of GG Allin, and so far I haven't thrown my excrement at other people.
Yes
I'm white and proud of it
@Blade Of Fury Not that bad at all
Being proud of being born a certain race is the stupidest shit ever. But you do you.
@@wolfstar675 of course that’s why BLM is a pile of shit
@@slavasmrti3328 pile of shit or not still own the elections tho😃
@@jesus-ql4tn not talking bout the selections. Biden is a lame duck and will probably die during his time in office. This is a USA problem not mine
I can never stand for censorship. I may not agree with what someone says but I would give my life for them to have the right to say it. Censorship is in my opinion a slippery slope in my opinion it's much more dangerous. I am getting to the point where I am offended by everyone taking offence by everything. I am against what Phil said but I absolutely support his right to say whatever he wants. Thank you for posting this video, it says pretty much everything I have been thinking on this subject. Political correctness will oppress us more in the end than any point of view it may be won't to suppress. Anyway I think your video needs to be seen by every side of this discussion. At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, I think the powers that be is trying to push this political correctness into every facet of our lives, once one person's right is taken the rest shall fall, we need to fight back while we can. Horns up comrade!
Question: Should X be censored?
Answer: No.
next topic
Should Y be censored?
@@dignifiedDog uhhhh perhaps
Racism should have no place in anything except for educating people on racism in order to stop racism from happening
Freedom of speech*
*terms and conditions apply
Nothing should ever be censored in art. However, racism is antithetical to the philosophy of metal. Metal has always been an inclusive genre for all who enjoy extreme music, and any sort of exclusion based on sex, race or sexual preference has no place and should not be tolerated at all in the community. People like Phil feed into the generalizations that people who like metal are a bunch of loud, aggressive hateful xenophobic people, which anyone who likes metal knows is not true. But he represents us if nobody says anything. There is a lot of brushing aside of issues of racism, sexism and homophobia in the metal community, and I think this incident should start a dialogue about those things. If we want to be taken seriously by others as an art from and a community, we have to be willing to hold the mirror to each other and discuss these issues like adults. Otherwise there really is no community, at least not the all inclusive friendly community many people claim exists.
that Some people or Festivals boycott a band, has nothing to do with censorship.
So, i as a jew from germany and an anarchist i may have a Diffrent Oppinion on this Topic. To keep Freedom for everybody, we musst Protect it from Facism, Racism, Homophobia, antisemitism etc. All this is not an oppinion you can disagree on, it is allways a form of Opression and will evolve into Violence at somepointe.
+Alex Fremder So what you are saying is that for everyone to be free, we have to limit the freedoms of some?
It is a difficult topic, on one hand I believe that people should have the right to freedom of speech and the freedom to take any political stance.
On the other hand I would love for nothing more then to censor and punish religious extremists, radical Christians and Islamists.
So how do we solve this? Any ideas?
+Alex Fremder please don't mix feminism into this.....
+JohnDiabol Education
+JohnDiabol How can people live freely if others have the "freedom" to build fascism? We must oppose oppressive ideas whenever they are exposed. Freedom of speech shouldn't protect people from the consequences of their speech. Shouting "White power!" and doing Hitler salutes is violent, so it should be violently opposed.
Pseudo Whatever you say, doc :P
Oh and btw, I'd take fascism over communism any day of the week.
Long time no see! (from my part) this topic sure caught my eye though
Gg allin is the best
Nothing should be censored, ever. But that doesn't mean we don't get to take a dump on it.
The thing is that, yes everyone has their right to an opinion, how twisted and fucked up that opinion may be in the eyes of the majority, everyone has the right to one.
HOWEVER, when you start putting an opinion which you know is not only offensive to a very large audience, but can also be dangerous in spreadinig hate, into music. THEN its a whole diffrent story.
See I believe everybody deserves an opinion and the ability to voice their opinion. I don't believe however everybody deserves a platform.
So that's why I believe yes we should allow all views in music, but we, as fans, shouldn't support it if we disagree with the message, especially if its aimed at spreading hate. Even if we like the songs, we shouldn't support it. I have been a Pantera fan for quite some years but I stopped listening to their music eventhough I like many of their songs. But I see my own values as being more imprtant than my taste in music.
METAL has its roots in BLACK MUSIC... what gives!!!!
This was a really good video about freedom of speech. Some people usually forget what that means because it not what they say that is the problem its when they act on those feelings of hate where it becomes the problem. Just because you say something negative doesn't mean they'll just say okay and walk away, but you just made yourself into a treat. Somethings are always better left un said, because in the end you may regret it and be looked at as a villain.
Amazing shirt one of my favorites bands , RIP David.
I know this is a old video,but what are your opinions on Dissection (band)
How about no racism? No racism is always good lol.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Common Sense Show! Here is your host, Ed! But seriously though, you always seems to tell the right thing and express your opinion very well. I really enjoy watching videos like this.
+Ghee Juice
Hey thanks! I am glad you liked it! And thanks for that compliment which made me laugh as well...:-p
Did you see beyonce's racist rant at the Super Bowl????
Okay, for the last week or so I've been thinking about this matter quite often and I think I have come to my conclusion on how I feel.
No, artists should never be censored, regardless of their views. All views have a place in metal, whether it be anti-religious, Christian and even white supremacist. For those who don't adhere to certain ideologies, just don't listen honestly. People should respect one other and not rain on another's parade. In a perfect world, people should just realize music is just music at the core of all things. Just try to enjoy everything you can out of it. If morals conflict, theres nothing wrong with that, but don't go about calling for the silence of those you disagree with. There's tons of other music out there for you to enjoy. Racism is a terrible thing, there is no question about that, but we all have the capacity to ignore those we don't see eye to eye with. At the end of the day let them do their own thing
Just my two cents, but hey I'm a jew that listens to Arghoslent and Burzum every now and then so what do I know?
+Evan Mester must be hard for you sometimes... listening to songs like "flogging the cargo"... awesome riffs though...
No metal should be censored!!!
I agree
Hi Ed,big fan,can you please make a top 10 favourite bans?
Thanks :)
Very well said. It's crazy to think so many metal heads would jump on the pc censorship bandwagon.
Nice Woods shirt. RIP David gold.
I'm commenting as I go, so haven't watched the full vid yet. If so, I'll edit this coment.
One thing - Not listening to a band because of band members believes? I find it kind of stupid. One should learn to distinguish maker from what he makes. If I were to do that, then I shouldn't listen anything, pretty much. Yet - I, as a Christian (I believe in God, not the church), have no problem with listening to bands like Burzum, Behemoth or Arkona. Of course, there are songs that I avoid, but those are just some songs, not whole bands.
Same goes with literature - If I were to judge creation by it's creator, then I shouldn't read, let's say Crime and Punishment, because Fyodor Dostoyevsky was strongly anti Polish.
People should distinguish creator from his creation. People also should learn from and respect their enemies, as one can learn a lot this way.
Problem with freedom of speech is that everyone has a right to say anything, shortly speaking. BUT this means, that people can say what they want, then someone other might say, that person one has no right to say that. Person 2 has no right (in general) to make an act of censorship, but has the right to say that it should be censored.
I know, it's twisted, but I see it that way.
It's up to the people to know not to argue and agree to disagree on certain topics at a certain point. Yet a nice conversation is always good.
Just like me - I believe in God, yet I have a Satanist as a friend. We sometimes speak about some things regarding satanism and christianism. We just know when to stop.
Really liked this video i enjoyed your logical and reasoned approach to the issue. much better than the videos other youtubers especially have released.
This is one of the reasons I actively avoid finding out details about the bands I love. You're gonna find something out about the musicians that you don''t agree with and that would color your opinion of their music. I'm not interested in gossip or personalities, I'm interested in the music.
If we censored so called "racist Metal bands", we'd then have to censor every other band that has unpopular views/lyrics. And pretty soon, there'd be no more Metal. If you don't like something, ignore it and focus on something you do like. Great video mate!! \m/
IN MY OPINION, one of the biggest hypocrites in metal is Angela Gossow.
+einherjar1020
How so?
Did I miss something?
+Infidelamsterdam Well its a long story, but to make a long story short,3 years ago when there was an UEFA European Championship,on her facebook wall,she said how she was "shocked" because of all the anti-semitism(she also mentioned racism but thats not the point in this case), that was happening at stadiums during the championship.She is also like some kind of "anti-fascist" and has pro refugee views on this whole crisis that is going on,and she gets mad every time someone insults muslims.In my opinion that is ok,because she can think whatever she wants,BUT she has a negative views on christianity and even sang anti christian lyrics when she was in Arch Enemy.So basically she thinks that it is ok to insult christianity,but insulting judaism or islam is unacceptable.NOTE:Im not a racist,"islamophobe",nazi or any other shit
+einherjar1020
Ah ok! Yeah I see what you're getting at.
Thanks for telling that, I had no idea that she was like this...but indeed, that's hypocrisy in it's purest form.
I wasn't aware of that
Personally I think racism has no place anywhere, but lyrics shouldn't be censored. It's their music, their opinion. It's their choice what they say.
It was a spur of the moment thing on stage and Phil got caught up in the moment. Go take a nap people and If you don't like it then don't fucking listen. There is definitely more important shit we need to worry about in the world than a musician on stage with his arm up lol.
+MRBIKERFINGER
I could use a nap...:-p
You really speak Sense in this video ! It´s just like you said ! Nobody complains about the sick ass lyrics of some Gore and Death Metal Bands, or even Black Metal Bands, but everyone is making a Drama of this Phil Issue ! It´s just hipocritical to me ! Thumbs up for your intelligent reflection on this one !
no art should be censored
(aka G.B. Brewer) and yet another awesome video! \m/
We shouldn't censor racist metal, but we should condemn it the same as anything racist, because humanity has come to a point where we're damn sure your "race" doesn't determine your worth as a person. That someone says stupid things doesn't matter, but it matters when they go around burning places and killing people in virtue of the stupid things they said.
Hi, I'm a great fan of Burzum and honestly the only thing that I didn't agree with you was the label you give to Varg Vikernes. He had a unfortunate past related nationalism and some crimes indeed, but that's past.
His actual views are actually quite interesting. He writed 2 very intersting books about european ancestry and mythology, composed a very elaborated Fantasy RPG game ("My Farog") and has a very interesting youtube chanel ("Thulean Perspective) with very good quotes.
His music is about European (specially Norse) Culture and Fantasy and never about Fascism, National Socialism or other radical ideas. He's living in France and his wife have actually very good reviews about archeollogy.
He's a Odhalist (reviving the pre christian european values and traditions; what I don't consider wrong) and a prepper (many people criticise a preppers becouse they like to live in a self-reliant way, but honestly what's wrong with it?)
Yup, he doesn't like christianity but he's heathen. Compreensible!!! As heathen myself, I've met a lot of people (specially celtic pagan, greek pagan and heathen) that don't like Christianity (I didn't say that don't like christians...) and when I go read articles of any kind about the violent conversion of european folk makes me sick...
...But that doesn't mean that there's racism there.
I have great pride on being Portuguese and being European and follow european standards and at a same time being a heathen, in part becouse it's a european native religion (I did'nt say that becouse I want promove it like some fuckin' jehovah witness...)
- THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT I AM RACIST!!!... or even Varg...
...Politically correct, cultural marxism and progressivism blamed...just saying... It separates more people in Europe in the XXI than racism...
BTW!!!...I started a Death Rock band recently and my drummer is Pakistani and muslin ;)
As I said before the rest of your review I totally agree :)
Best regards from Portugal! \m/
Long live to Metal \m/
Long live to Rock'n Roll \m/
Hating christianity is hating an idea, or hating people for what they CHOOSE to do...Hating other races is hating someone for being BORN that way...There is the difference...
+Aki Films Therefore nothing compares to racism, and nothing is more inferior than being a racist...
Craig Pillard (from Disma) stated officially that he has changed. Would you give him a chance?
+Morfeus
I was very excited to see Disma anyway, I don't care what he thinks or his opinions...I just love that band.
if you censor ideas, then nobody can ever understand them well enough to truly denounce them. Let the public arena itself find truth instead of making certain ideas off limits
First of all, this is a great example of disproving a stereotype: metal=stupid. Still a few things to think about. Read me out, we'll be cool:
1-Many people think that the right to free speech and free expression is an excuse to propagate hatred. They are wrong.
2-Sometimes music and lyrics do not agree: I love Varg's music, but I hate his lyrics and thoughts. Although I love the music, I'd rather eat my family jewels than buy the !@#$ record. The same goes for a lot of skinhead Oi; I love the music, but their views...
3-no matter how much I disagree with someone''s lyrics, I will not start a f@##ing pogrom to shut them down. Like you say, each of us has a right to expression. Just don't expect me to buy the album.
4-Cold coffee sucks, I know.
Yeah, 4 years later, but still thanks for this point of view.
From Groningen, keep it up
Just a random bit of trivia but Burzum lyrics literally have no racism and politics on them tho.
Most of Varg's questionable views only became public well after he recorded them, during his prison time.
Nothing should be censored. Free speech is an absolute. Noone should have the power to force his/her will upon someones mind.
What about Lemmy?
I'm speaking from someone who lives in South Africa. This country has been suffering from the scourge of racism for as long as time can remember. If I can explain to you the pain and death that racism has caused in this country you will understand why racism is bad. Here we also believe in freedom of speech and expression however you have to still be responsible for your words and your actions. In my opinion there is no place for racism in any form of society, and especially our music! Sure you can have your prejudices towards religion however religion is a choice whereas being white, black, Asian etc is not a choice. In South Africa you can be arrested for racism because it is viewed as hate speak. So in my opinion if you want to listen to and support racism it is your own choice, however it shouldn't be censored in music in any form. I choose not to support it, and that's what it comes down to at the end of it all.
Tbh, I knew what Pantera were all bout, especially rockin the Confederate Flags and where they were from. I never really got into Pantera (Panther) but I respect their success and agreed they made there mark in metal. Phil can be whoever he is, if he quits drugs then I can believe his apology. He did not offend me, he just looked like a fool on stage, and not even surprised he would do such a thing. Let him drink his "white wine", sniff "white powder" in his White Power world.
I’m drastically opposed to nazism however, I’d rather know nazis are expressing their hatred through music than by, let’s say, physically hurting people.
You into Code Orange or Oathbreaker Ed?
infidel, what's your opinion on the immigrant crisis in germany and sweden?
+xnothingnessx
I am not gonna mingle in this discussion, but I knew up front that there were gonna be some heavy discussions.
But I can't let that stop me from making these kinds of videos.
Awesome video man! Nice to see a intelligent responds to the Phil situation.
It all boiles down to Voltaires' sayng: "I may not agree with what you have to say, but i defend to the death your right to say it."
I'm something of an oddball as far as metal fans go, and I'm not really big on the idea of racial supremacy (I do believe that self-identification as part of a race and racial pride isn't a bad thing), but this is simply a matter of logic. Censoring certain types of music because they strike you as inappropriate is stupid, you don't defeat Fascism by turning into Fascists.
Just curios, for those "blood suckers" on your snake, are they also harmful to human ?
+Vastur Vincent
No they aren't, they just go for the snakes
dude your shirt is awesome *_*
and what do you think about the new carach angren album ?