they ripped me off....
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
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Видеоклипы
I think the people that do 20 revisions are just not happy with the song they wrote.
Maybe. But even more likely than that, is they don't like the sound of thier voice on recordings.
@@EricJohnson-fh8zj I should have said, not happy with their own performance.
Totally. I LITERALLY have people right now that have had like 17 revisions and another artist at the same time who only took 2 revisions and loved it. You have a valid argument there... I've even had the former 3-5 revisions in, send me new vocals for a section 'cause they actually didn't like their own performance... they need a producer but are too cheap to do that
Yup, I've always kept the take I liked .. usually first or second and I really never change any of my music 🙂
Nailed it. I watch this happen all the time - OR they have the attitude that you’re also the song/arrangement editor as well as engineer.
Wow. This is the most practical-transparent-straight to the point-video on rates I have ever seen a producer/mixer make lol. Thank you.
I charge 50% up front, then 25% when the design is approved and website working. Final 25% on delivery. Works much better than the early days.
We aren’t building websites, we’re making music!
@@officialWWMAnd yet somehow the process of getting paid is the same.
It’s all providing a service….. at least as it relates to recording, mixing, mastering, & production….. so the client interaction & payment structuring is pretty much identical across the board 🙌🏽
I do agree that writing music and creating your own art is a different thing…… and as an artist, you would be Colt’s client- where Colt is the service provider- (hence the need for structured billing/invoicing ;)
Rock On 🤘🏽
I agree...charge 50% deposit.
Like my websites, 25% up front, 25% at first milestone, then 50% before final delivery.
After waiting for 6 months to get paid from a major label I went to their office on the Row and literally sat in the office until they brought out a check. I started discounting label projects if they paid me within 7 days. That worked!
So you just got bullied into a discount? Don’t sacrifice your value due to other people’s shitty business practices.
@@ClintMoody boost the price so the discount is regular price.
Yes. That's exactly what I did. I boosted the price so the discount was "normal ".
My payment method is up above, but I like your style. That's a good idea if you're working with a bigger label.
How much you charge do you have a Instagram I have two project need mixing
This is a big part of why I gave up taking outside work and just work with friends and acquaintances now. No, I'll never get to quit my day job, but at least I'll get to do projects I enjoy, and my chances of getting paid will be right around 100%. I respect the heck out of all of you who are able to take the frustration of outside projects and make it work day to day.
Great video man. I give you a lot of credit for taking this topic on and being so upfront about it. Also letting the new guys know what your charging clients will help to give them the confidence to charge their clients what they feel they are worth. It’s very hard sometimes for anybody working for themselves to know what their time And skill is really worth, especially in the music business. Just try and remember you’re not just charging for the time it takes to finish the project but all the years of hard work learning and perfecting your skills. Don’t undersell yourself
My rule is all projects start with at least one Pre-roduction meeting or conversation. The project is outlined and the time required is estimated. I book nothing without a 50% deposit and signed production agreement clearly stating all terms.
We book the time and as we work through the deposit, we reevaluate our progress and then discuss further payments. This keeps all parties focused and aware of what has been done vs how much has been spent. This has solved all of the issues I ever had to deal with before.
Really cool to hear about your revisions policy. I'm currently where you were - offering unlimited mix revisions as part of my client pitch - and I know a lot of engineers struggle with this! As someone with half of the years you do in this industry, it's also very validating to hear your ballpark price figures and mix policy. Gives me hope that in another ten years I'll be at more of a self-sustaining place with my clientele, money, and caliber of work. Thanks as always for the videos!
I'll share one story...after getting burned a few times I started bouncing two versions of the master...one with random bursts of white noise added in throughout every segment of the song so that they couldn't possibly re-edit an unpaid version on their own, and a final clean production version. I had one client that wanted to come to pay, and pick up her master proofs in person. She lived two hours away. She shows up at the door and says...oh...I actually don't have any money to pay you right now, but I can send you the money within a week. I said "oh, that's fine...I'll just give you the white noise versions so that you can listen to them in the meantime until the final payment is made"....she gives me this weird look, and says....just a minute...let me check something....goes out to her brand new fully loaded dodge pickup truck and comes back with the full payment amount IN CASH!!!! But yeah...now I follow a similar "deposit, pay as you go" method too.
That’s so mean. Do it again😂😂😂
You're a menace
I am just about to enter the world of mixing as a paid service and this was the first thing I was thinking about. Just give them like a half song or white noise so they cannot run away.
I like the idea of adding white noise in segments of a song which renders it unusable until payment is made. This way the client get's to hear the quality of the mix/master. White noise is a brilliant idea.
@@belgradeboy1977Same here, I thought about doing that, or giving them a low quality MP3 of the track until they can pay for the master. I have a ways to go though, but this is all great advice.
Thanks for sharing Colt. The burn is real. Appreciate the transparency for what has been working better for you. 👊🏼
Yo Colt ... U have touched many of us and I personally thank you! Being a self recording saxophonist & mix engineer, I've learned tons from your content. Still planning that fabric wall!!
I also use a system similar to your deposits. I have a “signing bonus” of 10% of the total fixed costs (ie - ignoring the royalty payments if applicable). If I am producing, mixing, and mastering, then 10% of that entire fixed amount is due at signing. Then, as each stage is completed (ie - producing, mixing, mastering), then a subsequent payment is made to advance to the next step. You will not get the file without paying me.
For dealing with labels, I have both an incredibly specific payment schedule and a liquidated damages clause. It is incredibly expensive for them to not pay me on time
I'm happy to hear that i'm not the only one who spend 15 -20 hours on one project. the most tells here on youtube to mix fast in one hour and so on......great video Colt
Thanks for being transparant about your pricing and payment structure! Makes me feel more comfortable charging what I feel is a fair rate when so many others in my city are racing to the bottom.
I've had a 50% Upfront/50% On the first session payment model for a few years after being burned, and its the best way to avoid headache clients.
thanks Colt for sharing these insights, its a wise approach that should make everyone happy if they are being upfront...
Thanks Colt! That was exactly advice I needed now! Peace, Mix & Master!
Appreciate your sharing of this experience and info, Colt. Thanks.
I send TEASERS ( clips like few measures in Verse , Chorus..) NEVER SHARE/SEND over even the Pre_Master.
I just had a client steal a mix from me by just taking the last version of the song as an mp3 and using some free online service to master it and release it without telling or paying me, despite our agreement... they will find a way to cheat if they're shitty enough a person, master or not
@@danymalsound Wow. That's low.
@@warpacademy yeah, it didn't feel good when I found out... but I've consulted with a bunch of colleagues and concluded that this is a rare instance and not to treat other artists like they're potential thieves by watermarking mixes and all that... there's a balance and fine line to walk with this, of course
That a GOOD IDEA by Watermarking the MIX :)@@danymalsound
Even when I do my COVERS for YT… I don’t share w/ Friends, relatives that want to see/ hear how it’s coming out. Like I said before I send them a QUICKY 1-2 Measure or Bar just to shut them up. Again I’m just doing this as an Expensive Hobby so you guys that have paying Clients just take precautions. 👍🎚🎧
Thank you so much for the great information. So happy I found your channel.
Thank you very much for this video , I love them all but this helps tremendously as a beginner. Love and respect!!
Thank you Colt, you've helped me solve a lot of sh.... in my head and believe you've pointed me in the right direction. Thank you, you're very appreciated.
Thank you for your perspective. As somebody who is about to embark on mixing and mastering as a career, these first-hand stories are important to hear to avoid financial mistakes.
Great one Colt! Thanks for your honest insights!
Very interesting approach Colt, great video! keep up the great work.
Wisdom, right here. Thank you for sharing.
so happy to hear that’s how you run the payment system. I implemented this when i went full time in 2020 and its allowed me to keep money consistent all these years
There is so much integrity in this video! Great job Colt! Also, I once waited 9 months to be paid for a major label release. It was LAME!!! 😂
Great stuff, I've 100% encountered these issues, its good to hear how other people deal with it!
Good process mate! Lots can change in the midst of a project and you need to protect yourself. I learned this same lesson early on. Take a deposit that must clear before any work is done. And then have the remainder of your fees due upon completion, but before you deliver the final work. You gotta be business savvy in this field. Thanks for putting this out there.
Man this has been on my mind too lol, we as producers and engineers get screwed over so much and we usually can’t talk about it cause it makes us look bad
I’m not even involved in music, professionally - but I’m a realtor growing my business. This is helpful information, even just for me, to be aware of how to work with clients and protect yourself! This is great Colt, really appreciate you being transparent and trying to help other professionals in your industry!! 👏
Great insight Colt! Thank you!
Quick question. When you’re producing are you also taking a percentage of royalties as producer? And if so how much?
Thanks for sharing. Great tips/advice. Cheers mate.
Utmost respect for you and your business model Colt. You earned everything you’ve worked for. Outstanding Sir. 👏🏻
The more I follow you the more I find the similarities - it does not matter what business you are in as it applies for most of businesses where dealing with general public. Thanks for sharing
When I've had not a lot of work on, I enjoy the workflow, so I've spent multiple times the number of hours required on a project so that I can look impressive and get someone's work where I think it could get to.
No client cares.. they only see the result, not the effort put in.
If you're going to send masters pre-payment, add a watermark or a half second of noise somewhere in the track.
The hunger.. man, I've felt that so badly...
I didn't want to give up on my dream of working in music in some capacity and being forced to go back to office work or something without creativity. I just die inside those types of job.
So, I've accepted the lowest of the low knowing I'm worth so much more in skills and my work. Worst thing all - is accepting those jobs and THEN arguing with an artist on top when they send you junk or badly recorded stems and expect you to turn it into a masterpiece when it's just not possible. Someone I used to work with a lot, no matter what I tell her, she is convinced her stuff sounds great recorded and I just don't know what I'm doing. Shit in - Shit out - its a solid gold rule that you cannot fix under any circumstance. I think we will never work again because she thinks I'm not good - She showed me a track someone else produced for her expecting me to be impressed and I said.. uhhh, yeah, it's good, but also literally nothing you sent the mixer is in there, except for your voice, the rest is completely remade by the producer. Insane...
What an amazing point of view! Thank you
Contracts are able to help with a lot of problems. Contracts first, then work
Thank you so much for sharing from your experience...you just made my future a loooooot easier...
Helpful video for me in that it’s pretty much exactly what I do. It’s good to hear that others are finding success with the same model.
Thank you for sharing, for real!
Great information, thanks for sharing. I've been burnt so many times by people not paying / waiting forever to be paid. And thanks for the transparency about your rates.
Thank you for your transparency. What is your turnaround time on one song?
Thanks Colt! Really helpful.
Excellent video! Big up from Finland!
Great info. I have been ripped off or taken advantage of a lot. We learn quickly in music who has integrity and who doesn't.
I am completely and utterly stunned at how low your prices are.
Thanks for sharing and your transparency. ❤ I would be more than interested by knowing your opinion on platforms like filepass ?
Great advice, and something I always wondered about. One thing I'm surprised about is how low your prices are at your level. I've always wondered what happens if you do work with one one of these artists who are on a label or indie, and the song, which you produced, played on and even mastered becomes a hit. I'm sure you get the benefit of gaining clout (assuming you get all the proper credit), but when working with certain people is there a way to somehow sign a contract where royalties can be made, or is that only with the major producers? I've heard of major producers taking a flat rate and some taking a lesser rate and more points. I dont know how this works though with producers that aren't well known. Anyhow, great video!
Great video Colt!!!
I would like to know where can we hear songs that you have recently produced mixed or mastered? I searched for a website but didn’t find anything..
excellent approach Colt!
Back in the 80's we learned with rappers to get paid as we go, when they ran out of money we stopped, if they wanted more, they had to pay up front. Later though when I started working in film, I broke things down in 3 payments. One third up front, one third halfway through and one third on delivery. Now that I am doing just mixing I get paid up front. I have always found it easier if the client knows what we are doing and the time frame, give or take.
Very classy as usual, thank you.
THANK YOU for the tips! How much do you usually pay per musician you hire to record 1 track?
Cool explanation of experiences and a payment plan
Colt thanks for this review. Anyway have been repped some many labels and individual artists, I am currently charging 50% upfront payment b4 work for any label or artist. The crazy thing here in Nigeria is that some label and A-List Artist want u to me to mix and master a project with get paid. When I talked about pay dey just gost me. That is what most we Nigeria mixing engineers get all the time and it is crazy. Currently, I did a job for an A-list artist this song it out blow up and am not yet paid. 😂 have been calling the artist and his management for weeks now no response. What should I do pls?
Excellent and informative advice!
Great advice and insights
I use to do a lot of backing tracks in the 90s and into the 2000s and there were times when I got ripped off after giving the master to the client and then not getting paid. I learned my lesson very quickly by simply not giving the final product to the client up until they'd paid me in full!
very similar to my methods
Deposit to book tracking/production
Deposit before mix.
Final payment before master goes out the door.
Test tracks have white noise bursts about every 20 seconds.
Great, insightful and transparent video.
I'm glad you figured out unlimited means forever revisions!
When you produce a track for a client, do you share rights in the track after its done?
Sony is NOTORIOUS for this too.
Such a bummer….
Yep, I've been burned by them, and Discovery too
solid dude, pro level advice.
Colt, What 's the best way contact you to request work??
Do you use contracts with each artist you work with?
Ghosting in the music industry is a huge problem. People are embarrassed to admit it happens to them but they shouldn’t be - it happens to the best of the best.
We really need to start calling this practice out because it’s not OK. Artists, labels, and managers have grown accustomed to getting away with wasting a ton of a producer/writer/engineer/mixer’s time and then ghosting them because they know producers are scared to fight back. It’s really time to start calling this out.
I ain't scared to fight back... Just don't have time and money to do so... 😅😭
Thanks for sharing!
The flat rate for mixing and mastering, including up to three revisions, sounds very straightforward. How did you land on this structure, and have you found that it effectively manages client expectations? Also, how often do you find projects exceeding the revision limit, and how is that handled? New subscriber
Mr Capperrune, Mr Colt Capperrune...
For a couple years, I was working with a lot of Christian artists: contemporary Christian, worship music, rap, etc. It was unbelievable the number of artists that were scammy and didn’t pay.
Well that's not very Christ like of them.
I'd believe it
I’ll be donating your session fees to the local church 😂
I know producers who have waited up to two years to get paid
I think you're very reasonable in your pricing. I produced with a similar approach, and was always booked solid, 35 yrs ago, and my average rate was $1000 per song. I am assuming the deposit that 'puts them on the calendar', is also covering them not showing up for session? I believe that clients need to commit to the time they book into your studio, so you're not sitting in an empty studio, when you could have had another client in that day. Keep up the great work you're doing Colt! Even old guys like me are constantly learning from folks like you.
i think i haven't ever got ripped off in the way that people refuse to pay or even ghost me. but i surely often get into the situation where i work for someone for not enough pay
Great info!!!!!❤
Happens, there's a curve to learning to manage a studio for sure. Wish I'd seen this when I started, won't learn it in school good advice bro ty. I'm also independent, an broke lol or I'd flip ya a tip. Sorry literally stuck on the side of the road atm.
For labels just have two prices - charge double and then offer your normal (originally intended) price as a "pay within 4 weeks" rate - that way you get the accountants interested, all big companies are run by accountants. What about discounts for points? Or do you never expect royalties?
Thank you for giving us actual numbers
The system of only working with maximum 3-songs in session is what I always want to do. When the ground is recorded Bass- drums- Rhythm Guitar-scratch vocals- backing keyboards.
You Immediately want to record anything solo related- lead guitar lead vocals lead keyboards. Most bands can only cut 3-songs in a weekend 2-3 working days whit high standards. If the tracking sessions go well you immediately want to start basic mixing and laying down extended overdubs .
I think the system of only 3 songs at the time is the best way to secure successful sessions. Money upfront is the best way but only for tracking sessions. The next part is solo overdubs. Then basic mixing and extended overdubs. Last part is Mixing-mastering and printing of the 3-songs. Breaking up the payments into 5-parts is maybe a bit complicated but once you get that into a system it,s the best and most secure way of doing it. Also it gives the band choices for how and where they want to work.
Great info!
Sony takes almost forever to pay. It took me threatening the producer with the fact that I wouldn't leave his office until I got paid. Always demand a up front retainer for your work never deviate.
This is sage advice from hard-won experience.
PS: Colt, your website seems to be down. Thanks.
Every studio I've ever worked in demanded payment for the session at the top of the day. No money, no session. Granted they we all\ pretty small 1 room studios, but it worked well. If I'm mixing at home or video editing, its 50% upfront, and balance at release of deliverables (all files). No money, no files. Revisions are billed as more time and the same way, 50% upfront, 50% at delivery... or no files.
Are you gonna bump your rate for an ADM delivery ?
don't you calculate cost per hour?
Thanks for you openness and candor. Being business all my life I too have learned a few lessons on the way. The ones that jam ya you never forget and find a way to prevent it ever happening again. After all if you went to any beach and set up a DJ rig and blasted tunes, drank beer, fished, got tan , laid, made some friends and had a few folks tip y. . . you would have been way better off just breaking even. It's nice to have a fee reference in this now I am mixing and master, coming from the live world. Are you being listed as IPI producer on these project and receiving income revenue from distribution channels and record sales?. If so, you should make a vid about that! You have an inspiring life-story and wonderful example of hard work, education, dedication, work ethic and moreover giving back! Top Notch! Much obliged!
Deposits are technically/legally refundable. "Retainers" don't have to be refunded. Think about how you word this. Learned this while I was in the photography biz from a national association.
I had no idea it costs so much these days for a single. I guess you pay for a quality result. I haven’t been in a studio since the 80’s so it’s interesting learning more about today’s challenges with running a studio
I would also treat them as I do as a General Contractor/Home Improvement… type up Quote & or Contract to show on paper & PDF of Details of what their getting for this Song / Price.
your titles are so borderline clickbait that i MUST click immediately and it doesn’t make me mad at all 😂
Great Video Bro!!
Unfortunately Sony has a looong history of Zero
In the ad agency biz, we would charge 1/3 - 1/3 - 1/3.
Excellent!
Great video! Definitely some awesome insite. I am curious as to how someone with this kind of experience. Would have someone who has experience in the field, but has been workong basically for free. Get started getting paid for mixing and mastering, and trying to start a new career with the hindsight he has now. What kind of sites might help with sales and best help to get the engineer paid.
Getting ripped off is a part of life, unfortunately. The anger seems to simmer endlessly.
I always send an mp3 version of the master for demo...they get the Wav files once they pay
Thank you so much I needed this,❤CalabogieWeatherman,Ontario Canada