I'd say your video is a better resource for learning than anything Forster has put up in regard to the neck turning setup. I've had a heck of a time finding information on this product and how it all goes together, so this has been extremely helpful. Thank you for taking the time to show us how this works.
cd. My resizing dies are leaving the necks 0.001 under the size of the mandrel Forster sent me. Way too tight to get them inside the case mouths. Was that a problem for you also ?
I use the Forster for trimming and neck turning and reaming of my standard and wildcat rounds. The only issue I had with the Forster was neck turning the 17 fireball. I had to add extra holes to adjust the ( case holder side ) to get enough travel for Turning the 17FB necks. Apart from that the Forster lathe trimmer is a good bit of kit. Had used lee trimmers, Hornady lathe trimmer and a few WFT trimmers and sold them all but kept the Forster, dose the job well. Another good vid again Cavedweller
Thank you,Love your concise delivery style! I have 2 Forster trimmers,One set for overall length including in& outside neck bevel and the other set for case neck thickness.For calibers that you use a lot Forster sells an accessory that makes it much easier but you have to buy each caliber separately for about $70ish bucks.
Great video, I do both, if I am dealing with virgin brass I will resize each case, measure for OAL, trim if needed, then turn the case neck outside so I have 5 thousands clearance between outside neck diameter after case is loaded and the interior diameter of the rifles chamber. I make sure the neck thickness is about 12 thousands thickness in calibers 7mm or larger. After the first firing I will measure for interior neck diameter and if bullets stick or drag then I will ream the interior of the case neck making sure to not trim the necks thinner then 10-11 thousands for calibers 7mm or less. As the brass case grows longer the neck trimming should be checked both from the interior as well as the exterior.
Thank you for the posted video. As a machinist I look at the reaming process and wonder what the goal is. To make it a perfect bore or to realign the hole to the case? If it is to bore the hole accurately then fine. It would not be a good setup for concentricity. While turning the outside, in order to make the neck uniform and concentric you would have to remove material completely around the the neck. If it doesn't cut completely around the neck it would still be out of round. When it cuts it will remove more on the heavy side and leave a very slight rubbing cut on the desired thin side. This is a very crude hand lathe setup. There is no way a reamer will realign the bore to the casing because the fixture only holds the casing at one end and the reamer will just to push the hole and material over till the reamer aligns. Reamers follow the existing hole center. They don't create a new hole center. There is too much room for movement and not enough support when reaming. You would have to chuck right up to the the neck to support the casing properly. A collet would be best to hold the casing. Having said this if there was a choice between the two cutting operations, the outside turning operation seems more likely to help with concentricity than the reamer with this setup. Just sharing information. Not being negative.
I'm not a machinist, but I have questions about what you say. There's no reason to turn the outside of the neck so that it is completely smooth, that I can see. As long as you reduce the high points somewhat, that could be all the user desires. And yes, it would remove metal from the heavy side and leave some on the light side. That's the idea. The mandrel the neck slips over is tight and I have to assume it aligns the axis of the neck and that continues on back to the head of the case. It's machined so that it does. The same goes for reaming. The fixture, presumably, holds the cartridge case in proper alignment. It may not, but there is no reason it couldn't; you'd have to check each unit to see if it does.
@@robertbrandywine Since it’s accuracy that drives the motive, it depends on how accurate you want to be. If you want ultimate accuracy you would want to cut all the way around to create a true circle and not just rub the thinner side. The side that is rubbed will slightly be out of round. It will improve accuracy but not to extent that is available. A dial indicator would show how true the outside wall is. I’m sure most people would think that is overdoing it. I am pointing out the most accurate way of achieving concentricity. A brass material from the neck pressed up against a wall is not true especially if there is powder or dirt forming the surface of the outer diameter of the neck. Cutting it completely around corrects the surface to a true flat surface all the way around. In fact a heavy cut on one side while cutting could actually push the cutter away and not be true but I’d doubt that in this case. That’s why a couple couple rough cuts followed by finish cuts gives you best results. I would cut until it was shiny all the way around if the wall thickness allows. As for the reaming process if the cartridge case is held by the edge only, that is not the best way to achieve concentricity because the reamer will follow the existing bore and then cut. That is not necessarily the true center. The best way is to support the cartridge as much as possible to neck with a collet. All of this explanation might be over thinking but it is accurate. The setup is nothing more than a crude lathe. If you are looking for pinpoint accuracy I would think perfect concentricity is the goal. If you just go deer hunting then cutting the outside of the neck is more accurate since you are using a pilot shaft for support at the neck. When the cutter begins to cut the material pushes the cutter away with resistance however the pilot shaft helps prevent that resulting in a more accurate cut. When you ream with only support at the end the reamer will meet the heavier wall thickness and get pushed to the thinner side with less resistance therefore resulting in a cut diameter however it will not be a true concentric shape. That’s why a machinist will support the material as best near the end of the cut and bore it true first before teaming the hole. Bottom line , If the wall thickness allows cut completely around I would choose the outside cutting method. Hopes that explanation helps and thank you for the discussion.
@@jimdrechsel3611 Yes, thank you. There are so many places for error that probably the only way to get everything right would be to machine the entire case on a lathe.
@@robertbrandywine it’s all very interesting. there are many variables. A marksman would know how far to go with details. Thank you for opening up the discussion. It’s what makes reloading worth the experience. Now if I could just buy primers……
Thanks for the great video. Can you elaborate on how you set depth of the cut? You mentioned "monkeying with it" so you just set the cutter against the outside of the neck and then measure after cutting and keep adjusting?
Thanks for sharing I have been wondering about the Forester trimmer I have a Lyman which I cut over to use a electric screw driver to run works good for trimming I use a Hornady out side neck trimmer also works good. I once necked down .308 cases to .243 years ago I needed an inside neck trimmer, as this added material on the is side of the neck but once done can make a good tight chamber fit on a common rifle.
FYI if you get .010 with a pair of calipers than you are probably .009 or small since the caliper tips have a small flat which means you are bridging across the flat on the I.D. side of the neck. You could more or less figure the error by determining the chord segment length and then doing a simple trigonometry solution. Or use a ball micrometer and save lots of time in the long run.
If u think Hornady brass is good, try norma or nosler even. Win is better than horn. I think nosler Is better than lapua. It's as consistent as berger bullets. Soft but hard @ the same time & lasts me 10 15 20 reloads. I anneal & neck turn tho & stay with a medium load & compensate with a 26" to 30" barrel. Nvr been able to get under .5 with neck turned horn. Turned nosler will get u down around the 1/4 moa mark if good load development is performed.
So, if I understand this correctly, Forsters outside neck turning system won't exactly work well with the Redding S type bushing system, because they (Redding) size the neck via the bushing on the outside - with no need to draw an inside button through the neck for final sizing. With Reddings system, all of the extra thickness (assuming it's not uniform) would be on the inside. Correct?
New to reloading, but is neck thickness variations going to affect accuracy enough to mess with it. It's already a pain to batch prep a bunch of brass from scratch anyway haha. Thanks for the videos. Also PS I started loading the 58 grain vmax in my TC Compass .243 for P-Dogs. 48.6 grains of H380 was giving me consistent half inch groups if I was doing my part. This was a cold weather load development, and I will have to check for pressure and POI changes when it heats up.
Really enjoyed this video. Would that inside reamer fit in other trimmers like a Lyman or RCBS or you suppose it's proprietary to Forster? I'd like to pick up a few of those. Good stuff here Cavedweller! Thanks! Oh BTW....I bedded (5 minute clear epoxy Gorilla glue) a short action Rem 700 the other day. My first after watching your demo. I used high temp bearing grease as the release agent and it worked most ducky. I found some non drying clay at Wally World and it worked just fine as well. That thing is tight as a drum before screwing it down! It sure as heck wasn't before. Thanks for the demo on that as well....much appreciated. Next up for bedding is my Bergara B14 HMR in 6.5C. I already shoot .5 MOA or better with that guy and if I can tighten that up even a smidge I'll be stoked. Thanks again.
CaveDweller I really enjoy your videos that I have seen. Thank you for your sharing of your love and knowledge of shooting. On your latest video you are turning necks on 223 brass. Do you shoot a bolt 223 for prairie dogs? I want a new gun and am thinking of getting a Savage bolt action 223. Any suggestions?
The standard thickness was .010" That's already thin enough, so we only remove the high spots. They didn't become over sized, they were manufactured that way.
I normally do the outside, once you have the trimmer, if you get into a different caliber, you just need to buy the pilot. 5 or 6 bucks. The inside reamer I think was $25 or so. I bought it just to show how too. But, if you think about it, if you did both, you would have some very precise brass.
No, but your on the right track. Say you have to trim .008" off one test case. Run the pilot/cutter in to the case tight. Set the adjustment collar by the crank handle and tighten.NOW adjust the set screw for the length of the cut using the gages .008" shim. That's good thinking dude. Thanks for commenting.
So after seeing this video, I'm going to make the purchase...I have a question on the ID reamer, and after reading and reading I'm more confused than ever about the reamer size for each particular caliber...im reloading federal gold medal match .308 but it seems if I don't have a particular reamer for Federal brass, I could have bad consequences...my goal is to reload .308, .233/5.56 and 6.5 creedmoor...can you steer me in the right direction please? Thank you
Unless you will be doing large quantity's of brass, I would just go with the outside reamer. If large quantity's are in the works, the ID reamer is faster & easier, but more costly. The reamers are all by bore diameter, I have never heard of brand of brass making a difference, can't help you there.
@@cavedweller1959thank you very much and I will just do the OD for now and perhaps after firing the brass, maybe 2-3 times, I'll look into ID reaming...you and others have said the same about just doin the OD for now...once again, thank you for responding !!
I'd say your video is a better resource for learning than anything Forster has put up in regard to the neck turning setup. I've had a heck of a time finding information on this product and how it all goes together, so this has been extremely helpful. Thank you for taking the time to show us how this works.
More than welcome, glad you found use in it.
cd. My resizing dies are leaving the necks 0.001 under the size of the mandrel Forster sent me. Way too tight to get them inside the case mouths. Was that a problem for you also ?
This video made me go out and purchase a Forster trimmer and neck turning attachment. One again great video.
I use the Forster for trimming and neck turning and reaming of my standard and wildcat rounds.
The only issue I had with the Forster was neck turning the 17 fireball.
I had to add extra holes to adjust the ( case holder side ) to get enough travel for Turning the 17FB necks.
Apart from that the Forster lathe trimmer is a good bit of kit. Had used lee trimmers, Hornady lathe trimmer and a few WFT trimmers and sold them all but kept the Forster, dose the job well.
Another good vid again Cavedweller
Great demonstration.
Thank you,Love your concise delivery style! I have 2 Forster trimmers,One set for overall length including in& outside neck bevel and the other set for case neck thickness.For calibers that you use a lot Forster sells an accessory that makes it much easier but you have to buy each caliber separately for about $70ish bucks.
Great video, I do both, if I am dealing with virgin brass I will resize each case, measure for OAL, trim if needed, then turn the case neck outside so I have 5 thousands clearance between outside neck diameter after case is loaded and the interior diameter of the rifles chamber. I make sure the neck thickness is about 12 thousands thickness in calibers 7mm or larger. After the first firing I will measure for interior neck diameter and if bullets stick or drag then I will ream the interior of the case neck making sure to not trim the necks thinner then 10-11 thousands for calibers 7mm or less. As the brass case grows longer the neck trimming should be checked both from the interior as well as the exterior.
Thank you for the posted video. As a machinist I look at the reaming process and wonder what the goal is. To make it a perfect bore or to realign the hole to the case? If it is to bore the hole accurately then fine. It would not be a good setup for concentricity. While turning the outside, in order to make the neck uniform and concentric you would have to remove material completely around the the neck. If it doesn't cut completely around the neck it would still be out of round. When it cuts it will remove more on the heavy side and leave a very slight rubbing cut on the desired thin side. This is a very crude hand lathe setup. There is no way a reamer will realign the bore to the casing because the fixture only holds the casing at one end and the reamer will just to push the hole and material over till the reamer aligns. Reamers follow the existing hole center. They don't create a new hole center. There is too much room for movement and not enough support when reaming. You would have to chuck right up to the the neck to support the casing properly. A collet would be best to hold the casing. Having said this if there was a choice between the two cutting operations, the outside turning operation seems more likely to help with concentricity than the reamer with this setup. Just sharing information. Not being negative.
I'm not a machinist, but I have questions about what you say. There's no reason to turn the outside of the neck so that it is completely smooth, that I can see. As long as you reduce the high points somewhat, that could be all the user desires. And yes, it would remove metal from the heavy side and leave some on the light side. That's the idea. The mandrel the neck slips over is tight and I have to assume it aligns the axis of the neck and that continues on back to the head of the case. It's machined so that it does. The same goes for reaming. The fixture, presumably, holds the cartridge case in proper alignment. It may not, but there is no reason it couldn't; you'd have to check each unit to see if it does.
@@robertbrandywine Since it’s accuracy that drives the motive, it depends on how accurate you want to be. If you want ultimate accuracy you would want to cut all the way around to create a true circle and not just rub the thinner side. The side that is rubbed will slightly be out of round. It will improve accuracy but not to extent that is available. A dial indicator would show how true the outside wall is. I’m sure most people would think that is overdoing it. I am pointing out the most accurate way of achieving concentricity. A brass material from the neck pressed up against a wall is not true especially if there is powder or dirt forming the surface of the outer diameter of the neck. Cutting it completely around corrects the surface to a true flat surface all the way around. In fact a heavy cut on one side while cutting could actually push the cutter away and not be true but I’d doubt that in this case. That’s why a couple couple rough cuts followed by finish cuts gives you best results. I would cut until it was shiny all the way around if the wall thickness allows. As for the reaming process if the cartridge case is held by the edge only, that is not the best way to achieve concentricity because the reamer will follow the existing bore and then cut. That is not necessarily the true center. The best way is to support the cartridge as much as possible to neck with a collet. All of this explanation might be over thinking but it is accurate. The setup is nothing more than a crude lathe. If you are looking for pinpoint accuracy I would think perfect concentricity is the goal. If you just go deer hunting then cutting the outside of the neck is more accurate since you are using a pilot shaft for support at the neck. When the cutter begins to cut the material pushes the cutter away with resistance however the pilot shaft helps prevent that resulting in a more accurate cut. When you ream with only support at the end the reamer will meet the heavier wall thickness and get pushed to the thinner side with less resistance therefore resulting in a cut diameter however it will not be a true concentric shape. That’s why a machinist will support the material as best near the end of the cut and bore it true first before teaming the hole. Bottom line , If the wall thickness allows cut completely around I would choose the outside cutting method. Hopes that explanation helps and thank you for the discussion.
@@jimdrechsel3611 Yes, thank you. There are so many places for error that probably the only way to get everything right would be to machine the entire case on a lathe.
@@robertbrandywine it’s all very interesting. there are many variables. A marksman would know how far to go with details. Thank you for opening up the discussion. It’s what makes reloading worth the experience. Now if I could just buy primers……
Great video.....just what I was looking for. Thanks for doing it, and making it understandable 👍🏻 Subbed.
Thanks.Great to see.
Excellent video's. Lots of useful information. Gonna put a Boyes stock on my b mag. You make it look easy! Thanks!
Thanks for the great video. Can you elaborate on how you set depth of the cut? You mentioned "monkeying with it" so you just set the cutter against the outside of the neck and then measure after cutting and keep adjusting?
Thanks for sharing I have been wondering about the Forester trimmer I have a Lyman which I cut over to use a electric screw driver to run works good for trimming I use a Hornady out side neck trimmer also works good. I once necked down .308 cases to .243 years ago I needed an inside neck trimmer, as this added material on the is side of the neck but once done can make a good tight chamber fit on a common rifle.
Wow Nice !
FYI if you get .010 with a pair of calipers than you are probably
.009 or small since the caliper tips have a small flat which means you are bridging across the flat on the I.D. side of the neck. You could more or less figure the error by determining the chord segment length and then doing a simple trigonometry solution. Or use a ball micrometer and save lots of time in the long run.
Perfectly Well said! Duck Slayer
you're the best, thanks.....good job
Thanks for sharing!
If u think Hornady brass is good, try norma or nosler even. Win is better than horn. I think nosler Is better than lapua. It's as consistent as berger bullets. Soft but hard @ the same time & lasts me 10 15 20 reloads. I anneal & neck turn tho & stay with a medium load & compensate with a 26" to 30" barrel. Nvr been able to get under .5 with neck turned horn. Turned nosler will get u down around the 1/4 moa mark if good load development is performed.
Personal preference is a bushing and reamer. Highly accurate, isn't cheap though.
So, if I understand this correctly, Forsters outside neck turning system won't exactly work well with the Redding S type bushing system, because they (Redding) size the neck via the bushing on the outside - with no need to draw an inside button through the neck for final sizing. With Reddings system, all of the extra thickness (assuming it's not uniform) would be on the inside. Correct?
Sounds correct to me.
New to reloading, but is neck thickness variations going to affect accuracy enough to mess with it. It's already a pain to batch prep a bunch of brass from scratch anyway haha. Thanks for the videos. Also PS I started loading the 58 grain vmax in my TC Compass .243 for P-Dogs. 48.6 grains of H380 was giving me consistent half inch groups if I was doing my part. This was a cold weather load development, and I will have to check for pressure and POI changes when it heats up.
Really enjoyed this video. Would that inside reamer fit in other trimmers like a Lyman or RCBS or you suppose it's proprietary to Forster? I'd like to pick up a few of those. Good stuff here Cavedweller! Thanks! Oh BTW....I bedded (5 minute clear epoxy Gorilla glue) a short action Rem 700 the other day. My first after watching your demo. I used high temp bearing grease as the release agent and it worked most ducky. I found some non drying clay at Wally World and it worked just fine as well. That thing is tight as a drum before screwing it down! It sure as heck wasn't before. Thanks for the demo on that as well....much appreciated. Next up for bedding is my Bergara B14 HMR in 6.5C. I already shoot .5 MOA or better with that guy and if I can tighten that up even a smidge I'll be stoked. Thanks again.
I doubt they would interchange, They all want to sell their parts & accessories.
Is the HMR not already bedded??
CaveDweller
I really enjoy your videos that I have seen. Thank you for your sharing of your love and knowledge of shooting.
On your latest video you are turning necks on 223 brass.
Do you shoot a bolt 223 for prairie dogs?
I want a new gun and am thinking of getting a Savage bolt action 223.
Any suggestions?
The .223/5.56 for me is just for the AR-15s, I have zero use for it in a bolt gun. Ton of fun in one of those dreaded black rifles.
Great video as usual. I'm curious as to why only half the neck was getting trimmed? Why did only have the neck become over sized?
The standard thickness was .010" That's already thin enough, so we only remove the high spots. They didn't become over sized, they were manufactured that way.
@@cavedweller1959 Ahh gotcha! Makes sense now thanks
Where did you buy the Forester?
Lock, stock and barrel. But they're no longer open.
great job, thanks for the explanation. How do you decide whether to trim the outside of the neck or the inside? Thank you
I normally do the outside, once you have the trimmer, if you get into a different caliber, you just need to buy the pilot. 5 or 6 bucks. The inside reamer I think was $25 or so. I bought it just to show how too. But, if you think about it, if you did both, you would have some very precise brass.
@@cavedweller1959 Thank you, appreciate the fast response.
What is neck turning?
What he did in the first part of the video; cutting the outside of the neck to make the thickness consistent.
Would you trim both inside and outside for max conformity, or is that overkill?
More than likely overkill.
Does it make any sense to use a feeler gage between the pilot and cutter to set the depth of cut?
No, but your on the right track. Say you have to trim .008" off one test case. Run the pilot/cutter in to the case tight. Set the adjustment collar by the crank handle and tighten.NOW adjust the set screw for the length of the cut using the gages .008" shim.
That's good thinking dude. Thanks for commenting.
This video has explained the process very well...thanks
So after seeing this video, I'm going to make the purchase...I have a question on the ID reamer, and after reading and reading I'm more confused than ever about the reamer size for each particular caliber...im reloading federal gold medal match .308 but it seems if I don't have a particular reamer for Federal brass, I could have bad consequences...my goal is to reload .308, .233/5.56 and 6.5 creedmoor...can you steer me in the right direction please?
Thank you
Unless you will be doing large quantity's of brass, I would just go with the outside reamer. If large quantity's are in the works, the ID reamer is faster & easier, but more costly. The reamers are all by bore diameter, I have never heard of brand of brass making a difference, can't help you there.
@@cavedweller1959thank you very much and I will just do the OD for now and perhaps after firing the brass, maybe 2-3 times, I'll look into ID reaming...you and others have said the same about just doin the OD for now...once again, thank you for responding !!
You purchase the inside reamer to correspond to the caliber you trimming, so that is a 0.223, 0.308, 0.6.5mm.
@@georgeholt8929 thank you sir
Sorry, I kinda skipped through the video but is neck trimming something you only have to do to a case once?
You turn the necks one time only.
Thanks, CD59
Do you turn necks then anneal?or anneal then turn necks?
I would fire 1 time, resize, then turn. You wont need to anneal till the 3rd or 4th loading if you are just extending case life.
@@cavedweller1959 When you do anneal,which step is first?Thanks.
Why are you yelling at me?