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Which Is The Best 5th Gen Airspace Infiltrator? (F-22, F-35, J-20, Su-57) (Wargames 163) | DCS
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- Опубликовано: 5 авг 2024
- We test which aircraft is the best 5th Generation Stealth hostile airspace infiltrator. Is it the F-22 Raptor, F-35 Lightning II, J-20 Mighty Dragon or Su-57 Felon? Each aircraft is run through a gauntlet of Su-35 super Flankers.
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0:00 Intro
0:36 Overview
1:18 Scenario Details
3:21 Aircraft Details
5:15 Predictions
5:57 Su-35 Detecting F-22 Sealth At Long Ranges In Syria
8:09 Testing SU-35 IRST against F-22 Raptor
11:50 Tactics
13:25 Attempt With Su-57 Felon
15:39 Attempt With J-20 Mighty Dragon
25:55 Attempt With F-35 Lightning II
36:30 Attempt With F-22 Raptor
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THANK YOU TO: Mission Makers, Admin, Staff, Helpers, Donators & Viewers(without which, this could not happen) xx
#WarGames #GRWarGames #5thGen #Stealth #F22 #Raptor #J20 #Su57 #DCSQuestioned #GR #Aviation #AviationGaming #FlightSimulators #Military #DCS #DCSWorld
Have you guys considered a scenario that simulates the F16 being introduced into the Russo-Ukrainian war?
ruclips.net/video/Y-k71nfap4Q/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/17Pikrp0QaY/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/FHxPMz5MhdI/видео.html
Honestly, the best part of all of these videos is when Cap loses his mind and just makes wibble sounds!
ruclips.net/video/9-pnA0orMFU/видео.htmlsi=CB2Udaayiy96HZvx&t=67
11:45 I think you explained that very well, Cap.
13:20 I believe the best way to go is high and fast down one side. That way you only have to evade one flight of each stage. If you try the center, you have to evade two pairs of enemy.
27:33 *HEY!!!* Talking to the Valued Viewrs *IS* your primary job! Well, right after taking care of Baby, that is.
22:40
On topic of engine
I can't really confirm it but the Chinese air force announced that the WS-15 engine for the J-20 will soon go online
It would be a nice improvement for the next GR version of the J-20
Roger send any data to me please would be appreciated.
@@grimreaperssuspected but not confirmed yet. WS-15 is 40,000 lbf class. will enable supercruise, and increase maneuverability (it has thrust vectoring)
@@grimreapersit should also be noted that the J20 and J35 both have EOTS like systems similar to the F35, so they should be able to detect each other well before they get radar locks.
When did Bird become so aerodynamically unstable ? He was bobbing & weaving, notching & cranking like a Tasmanian Devil with heatstroke AND Tourettes. Lets hear it for Bird 👏🏻
Agreed
its pretty impressive that Cap is able to be a marrator, film the videos, and play a game at the same time.
Cap could be the best WSO/RIO ever
Best thing to watch without having to go incognito mode.
Lol
As someone else mentioned, the F-22 and F-35 are often fitted with Luneberg lenses to make themselves visible on radar on purpose. This lets the adversary know that the Raptor is there (as a show of force the enemy can't see is pointless) and also conceals the precise RCS.
Roger
Anyone else notice that Bird would have died to the Adder but he chaffed ONCE at point blank and it fooled the missile? 23:17
Crazy
yeah the old r74's are pretty crap
got lucky with the notch and chaff tbh. thought it had me!
on god real bird@@albird87
@@albird87 There definitely was no notching there. You essentially have to be moving perfectly perpendicular to the radar emitter to notch effectively.
That was absolutely had to be a lot of fun! It was certainly fun and exciting to watch. Thanks Guy's!
Right as I wake up, perfect post timing (definitely intended)
Same lol
Same here.
@@NemoGraynameA8 Don't worry I've known all this time and grown accustomed to it
@@NemoGraynameA8 I didn’t ignore him. I pulled him into my bedroom and we’ve been cuddled up all day. lol
Would have preferred if there was an objective to accomplish at Suez. Great video.
Request: Run this again but with the humans armed. See if they can either land or drop a bomb at Suez. Though I suppose it might defeat the point of "infiltration," think it'd be more fun to see how far the flight can push when they can fire back.
I love it when GR does a thing!
That was the most exciting video you've done in a while Cap, I was on the edge of my seat for most of it. Thanks mate I really enjoyed that
My blood pressure.
Request: Please test the effectiveness of the combination of not quite stealth fighters such as Boramae or Su-57 with an integrated air defense system in their own territory versus fully stealthy fighters such as F-35 trying to penetrate and destroy some of those aircraft and air defenses.
In particular, I am curious how effective Boramae + Patriot in South Korea would be versus incoming J-20 and J-35 from China or through North Korea.
But it could also apply to F-35 entering Russia with Su-57 and S-300 and comrades defending.
MVP to Bird. That was some very nice flying sir.
thank you sir! more luck than anything lol
Omg that intro got me hyped for this video!!
Yes this video is great I just started the F-35 part. Very exciting and great Dodging!
Didn't even include the Cessna 172!
Wasn't in the budget...
@@grimreapersit's way to fast XD
Crop dusters with rocket pods and machine guns should be in everyone’s budget
The Cessna 172 would walk it. The SU-35 that can shoot down a 172 hasn't been built!
@@nigeldepledge3790the radar could probably not even detect it because its too slow
Well that's the best 5th gen airspace infiltration test video I've seen all day, I tell you what.
Yes! This should be exciting!
a good metaphor for the IRST is like looking through a drinking straw. While it can detect heat source in perfect weather it wouldn't know where to look. Even if you can see you can't shoot at it with anything.
Yup I agree with this.
i do love capt's backhanded compliment's )) gl
Great. Better than yesterday and it as good as tomorrow
Cool!! VID ;)
there’s a difference between detecting and actually being able to obtain a radar lock.
Agree
@grimreapers i agree with one of my fellow valued viewers. Re-run this acenario, but with the beuatiful humans ARMED. To me it represents more difficulty, gotta get past the 35's, but first might have to go air to air. Then go back to mission, but you have the next tier of 35's. Missile conservation would be your key in that one. Great video boys!!
Really cool mission design.
I spat beer on my laptop please stop Capt! lol.
Sounds like I owe you a new keyboard...
Beautiful
Your doing well mixing flying and showing el capitan
The exhaust plume itself is also detectable by radar the SR-71 had a fuel additive to reduce the RC of the plume.,
Cool
Wish it was taught to pull throttle back in addition to flare - technique that you have to learn in the A-10 after strafing (don't pull up with engines blaring).
"When you want them to be stupid they are friggin smart but when you want them to be smart they run into trees."
Sums up ARMA 2 & 3.
Yarp
If your doing stealth. Long Range IR missiles as part of missile load out would make sense as there maybe stealths flying around, to use with their IRST systems on the SU-35s.
MeiMingZi
May Ming Zuh
Mei - short for Meiyou - "does not have"
MingZi - "name"
Does not have a name - Nameless
His name is Nobody.
fat amy indeed,lmao. I can tell this is a lot of fun
Hey Cap, I've personally had good luck hunting stealth aircraft in a MiG-29A with IR Alamos in various scenarios. That being said all I've got is core game assets and I mostly play quasi Cold War scenarios, but in said missions I'd been able to shoot down F-117 Nighthawks at seemingly stupid ranges.
I am using the same IRST as is in your Mig-29 so your results should match mine.
7:15 Precisely!👍👍
9:19 U.S. IRST bset IRST ;)
11:00 Thank you for explaining this for ppl who don't understand Cap!👍👍 Lol any analogy with pie in it has to be good lmao great now im hungry!
25:57 Still come along way from MIG-21 Cockpit ;)👍
Honestly, they're all pretty impressive
Seeing them on radar and being able to get a weapons grade missile lock are 2 hugely different aspects... You can know they are there all day, but if you can't do anything about it, then it doesn't matter.. and even then, electronic and sensor jamming abilities as well as the quality and experience of pilots still has to be overcome. The electronic and jamming capabilities are probably near even on both sides but the pilot quality and experience hugely favors American pilots.
I'm pretty sure the F35 and F22 weren't designed to be a highly stealthy, deep penetration strike aircraft. They sacrifice some stealth for aerodynamics and agility. They just have enough stealth to make locking it with missiles and keeping track of it much more difficult, but the enemy will still know it is somewhere on the battlefield. The B2 (and earlier F117) were actually designed for max stealth so they wouldn't show up on radar at all to sneak past defenses without alerting the enemy.
Should have used Rafale... when Egypt tested Su35 against Rafale, Su35 as aggressors vs Rafales undertaking a air to ground mission, they discovered that the SPECTRA jamming suite from the Rafale was jamming the Su35 radar so well they could not get a lock, and Rafale could then easily shoot down Su35 that had to come close... and then Egypt cancelled their order for Su35 ordered additional Rafale... (well, to be fully honest, politics also played a role and the US sent a friendly warning to Egypt not to by Russian equipment...). Of course, IRST would still work but, as you mentioned, against Rafale flying low over a warm desert... I expect other top notch Western planes could do nearly as well as the Rafale in their jamming capacity, this is something which is underestimated in DCS
You stupid , this was fake
If they can see them on IR can they mad dog missiles at them to have the missiles themselves aquire with their own radars if they close enough?
I remember that one episode where you did f-35s (I think) vs murder load out 15s that just mad dogged heaps of missiles at the general direction of the F-35s and just overwhelmed them.
are you guys planning to model the irst on the f-35, and the legion pod on the f-16 and f-15's aswell and the block 3 super hornets irst?
Nice mission on all the 5th Gen planes....I really enjoyed this. The SU 57s got smoked!
Also for you can also use cell towers they prove this back in the early 2000s you can track stealth aircraft when they block out the frequencies from a cell Tower or cell towers
Wonderful fun, chaps! Thank you! Would the Peoples' Champion have made a difference? I don't think so on this scenario.
I think today was more about team work than individuals.
Bird is putting in some work, maybe a challenge coming?!? CAP! Do it like wrestling, tag teams, grudge matches, belts, all that.
@@grimreapersCap see below for your next big thing. You'll be the DCS Vince McMahon.
PLEASE. Cap, can you a the boys put a NATO air strike package together that puts the Kersch Bridge into the drink? Tah, loof. D
B-2 with JSOW, JASSM, or MOP.
MOP to crater each end of the bridges, JASSM to smash multiple supports, and JSOW to punch holes in any remaining spans.
ruclips.net/video/IJbf9Bcxnw0/видео.html
@@grimreapers How did I chuffing miss this?!?! Thank you!
hello valued viewers......lol I cant get enough of your intro accent...lol
Could you fire an AIM120 or similar in the direction of the heat source, then turn on active radar homing when they are close enough to track?
Wonder if the de-spawning planes were giving your location to the fresh spawning group. Also isn't there plans to use the F-15 as a missile truck and the F-35 as a scout with a data link? Not sure Could try sneaking an F-35 through with F-15's knocking the flankers down. Just not sure the 15's could down the flankers without getting shot down themself.
Cap, could the boys accomplish the RedBull Helipad landing challenge?
If the EO system can see the very stealthy Raptor at 50-60 miles, what's stopping sending a Maddog out once within the missiles' maximum parameters?
Most (or all that I know of) don't give ranging information, some don't even give vectors. Both of which are generally necessary for weapons employment. In DCS you will see players lobbing off missiles on EO locked targets but the PK is generally pretty low compared to a radar lock.
Yup that's a fair point.
Yes
The stealth bomber we don’t know about, duh.
Lmao: "let's face it, they pay the bills around here."
Seriously I am a massive aerosexual, I love all thing aviation especially fighter, and can we please appreciate the designers over at Sukhoi. The SU-35 is one sexy beast, not as sexy as the Tomcat but it's right up there imo. Than the prototype SU-37 terminator, a designer or engineer after my own heart "Why don't we just put thrust vectoring nozzles on it." This is my perfect solution to all aircraft, "Fck it F16 gets thrust vectoring, B1B lancer gets thrust vectoring, A10 warthog would get thrust vectoring in my perfect aviation world, why... 🤷♂ because I want to see what happens is why." The SU-57 took time for me to grow appreciation for it's appearance (Stealth qualities U/K so I judge appearance) I now love that thing, it just looks cool.
Unfortunately I don't share Cap's love for the J20, I think the seperation of canard to wings looks odd, it probably works really well, but I live in a world were appearance and thrust vectoring aircraft no matter the type rule supreme 😂 If they minimised the gap between canard and wing IE a LEX canard that top down looked apart of the one wing that's be sexy (If it had thrust vectoring 😜)
I'm being facetious regarding thrust-vectoring guys but it is humorous to think about. However can we get as highly realistic ASF-14 (😏 with optional PW-F119 engines, or GE-XA100, or PW-XA101 because fck that would be baller... 💁♂ is why.)
Niice
My only problem is that the irst is picking up the afterburner of the f-22. Does it matter if it’s a afterburner vs super cruise or better yet just below the speed of sound since that part of stealth of you don’t want sonic booms going off. The only way I’d see afterburners used is when detected or combat. I’d like to see if it makes a difference since you had the f22 hit the afterburner all the way
That's what I'm thinking of the IRL situation. I think they're using IRST too see the raptors.
Super cruise would indeed be colder. We showed best case scenario for the Su-35.
It’s would be a good test to see if afterburners make a difference in detection and by how much. You already did best case full afterburners. It would be cool to see supercruise and throttled down to subsonic speed. Btw I really love your videos. I wish to have a basic setup for dcs at some point.
I like to see ww1 dreadnoughts vs ww2 battleships
Agreed
Was that Eastbourne at 2 minutes in ? more like the Persian gulf
FWIW, the J20's creator's name is pronounced May-Ming-Zhi! (lit: nameless)
thx
Can the F35 carry TALD Decoys internally?....... figure you can see where im going with this 😊
It can only carry them on the wings, at least in game.
The reason why it isn't called and F-22 Felon is because it's never been caught. 🇺🇸😉🇺🇸
hi cap, the Chinese j20 ‘S model maker meimingzi literally translates to no name lolol😅
thx
I want to see Raptors defending a blackbird vs Mig 31’s
Sorry Cap, but there's a number of issues with the start:
1) IRST is great, P.I.R.A.T.E. (on the Typhoon) is widely regarded as the best on the planet (and is integrated with Fox 3s). However, it absolutely *cannot* detect aircraft further than RADAR can. Despite how good the Typhoon IRS(T) is, I know *plenty* of Typhoon pilots that are shot out of the sky before even knowing a Raptor exists from Red Flag exercises. There are some sources that estimate the detection range of an F-22 by P.I.R.A.T.E of around 20Km maximum.
2) Frankly, I don't believe a word Russia says. Almost everything they say about their equipment has been proven nonsense.
3) The likelihood of Russia having *any* of these in active use is negligible given that their front-line tanks in Ukraine aren't fitted with with basic thermal cameras because they literally buy them off-the-shelf from the west (genuinely, the thermal sights on commercial UAVs is superior to what the Russians have and they cannot produce them without western help).
4) The F-22 has "all-aspect" stealth which includes IR. That's the reason the F-22 has the funny nozzles on their engine and so is actually really cool in terms of IR emissions. F-35 is good, but not as good as the F-22.
That being said, great video! Very fun to watch!
Roger thanks for feedback!
@@grimreapers no problems! Thanks for the videos! Love watching you guys!
😂😂😂😂 nonsense
@@BBCRF OK RuBot.
@BBCRF Ivan quit drinking Vodka because it causes you to believe Putin and his bs lies!
🤣🤣🤣 ahhh hahaha the excitement of Cap 😆 🤣
This is the first time I saw the cockpit of the J-20.
Unsure how realistic it is.
Even if - and that if is in upper case - the Ivans could ‘see’ the F-22.
Then what? Can they aquire the target? Can their missiles get a lock?
Hmm..
The problem is the only way to find out for sure would be for an Su35 to fire on an F22 and for all our sakes I hope that never happens.
I expect the reality is they can see the Raptor's heat, but can not lock and fire missile at range.
Hey Cap, suggestion that might actually be worth doing, unlike my previous couple...
Supposedly the most powerful air force in the world is the US Air Force, and the second most powerful is the US Navy. Which would mean the US should be able to beat the next two most powerful countries combined, similar to the UK's navy at their peak.
So how about giving it a shot? USAF + USN vs. China + Russia, entire air forces at 1:10 (or more likely probably 1:20) scale.
You've already got the numbers for them, and odds are the Americans will win so it should please the patrons.
I love these big battles BUT viewing figures for them are un-sustainably low. I'm lucky to get $25 from each of them, which I can't live on so not sure I can do any more of them without something drastically changing.
@@grimreapers Ouch, yeah, that's understandable then.
haha, best miss I've ever seen in here
Okay Simba, make it happen.
I ken off topic how about the battle of Jutland with you in charge of the fleet.
Best naval battle in history.
Does GR allow their mods used by non-GR members either for free or paid?
ALL of these mods are freely available through the link in the vid description. I can not give the variants that GR uses as I can not give out modified version of other people's property, or I'd be in all kinds of trouble.
Idk if this is true or not, but I remember reading something about Irst can't give you a firing solution as you need 2 tracks to triangulate range and other parameters.
Depends on the system. In DCS the R27T and R27ET only need an EO lock and not a radar lock. And that's true of both the Su27 and Mig29.
I expect in reality it will allow you to fire a heat-seeking missile, but will not give good ranging data, so likely the missile will be a dud.
The Su-35 is the only fight jet can put or can't go to 5th generation fight jet?
It is a good baseline example because Flanker variants are the majority of both the Russisn AF and the PLA AF.
IMO, i think the Su-35 can see stealth but not track it, unless they're using the IRST turret.
Dmax=(D RCS1m2)×sqrt^4(RCS)
LETS GO BRANDON! 35:05
oof
New Sam valley soon?
you should do something at night. im not sure ive seen what a night explosions looks like in DCS. Unless its kind of boring like all the explosions.
I have done plenty in the past but problem is, RUclips kills the video compression on night vids and it just looks crap.
@grimreapers has DCS done any improvement on their night physics? I've been watching/subbed at least a couple years so I've seen your night missions. I was thinking of a naval battle with all the tracers. It would be cool if you could control the illumination with the moon. I can picture the moon reflecting on the ocean making it almost as bright as day with a huge naval battle going on.
You guys sound, like you're having a lot of fun. Is that even allowed?
Not these days I'm afraid.
Why would you not arm your infiltrator? It doesn't make sense. Once descovered it would be the only way to survive.
5:09 why the altitude restriction?
I make my own flight models for these mods, they are not realistic above 50k ft, hence I don't let the boys fly them up there and AI tends not to exceed it also.
@@grimreapers okay. Interesting that they are heavily dependend on altitude
Please do more gauntlet runs. This is the fine wine that got to subscribe 🤌
could you put up your f35 mod
Would benice to see Gripen,typhon and Raphale to make it realistic
All three of those have very sophisticated jamming systems that they use instead of geometric stealth and since so systems are state secrets there isn't a way to properly model them.
Fair comment. As currently modelled in DCS they would probably be picked up at 70+ miles. Would be fish in a barrel.
If you answer isn't F22 then you're wrong, don't take my word for it. Starscream said so.
Also the Felon is what happens when you buy a Raptor from temu.
100%
I don't know but I heard a story from a credible source AKA an actual fighter pilot that flew in half-22 and came up behind supposedly an SU-35 and it didn't know he was there and he just flew away in a different direction once he had passed so unless you're behind him you're probably not going to see a Raptor😂
Plume only from dead rear . Wild weasels as drones.
DCS Experts turning to military "Experts" LoL
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the IRST sensor should only be able to see the heat signature from certain angles. If an F-22 is head on with an Su-35, that heat signature should be significantly less.
So kind of not really. Fox2 missiles look for heat signatures, IRST's look for contrast which is the difference between the ambient background temperature and the target. Since speed creates friction and that friction generates heat modern IRST's can see aircraft from the front over large distances. PIRATE on the Eurofighter for instance can see an aircraft head on with IRST from over 30nm away. No clue as to the capabilites of the Su35's sensor though.
In game the IRST seems to have about twice the range if the hostile is headed away.
An F-22 heat signature is almost non-existent because it is using cold thruster engine.
@@NationChosenByGod😂😂😂 you stupid
It’s disheartening to hear Cap say that if the Americans don’t win then everyone gets mad. As much as I’d love to see the American jets come out on top, I want honest results above all else. If everything is modeled as realistically as possible and America doesn’t win, then that’s that. Honest results above all else, please don’t just spoon feed me what I want to see.
As always, thank you Grim Reapers for all your hard work.
He says that because everytime America loses, there’s a bunch of people saying this is not how they would do it or they would have this first then go in with that or have this plane helping that, so I agree with him but you seem like you want honest results but other people are just murica wheraboos
I recently did this vid: ruclips.net/video/G0SUzr80sgU/видео.html
The Su-57 ended up beating the F-22, this time in close combat. The vid got the worst down thumbs ratio for any GR video for 3 years and $200 was wiped off the GR Patreon overnight. I'm not sure how long I can keep doing fair fights. I may need to start scripting the battles so the "good" guy wins. Strange reality we live in.
People can be funny about their favourite vehicles, be they road cars, tanks or aircraft. Most people grow out of it, but not everyone, and there are a LOT of Americans, so statistically, you're gonna get some of those guys getting upset about the outcome of a vs, but it's a simulation. It's based on the publicly known information about various platforms, which are not necessarily truthful or accurate, and also it's limited to the physics engine of the Sim, it's an approximation of the real world. It doesn't mean America is weak. It's not a slight against American honour. It's a video game, admittedly a very realistic one, but a game.
I've found that it really doesn't matter what hobby you have, you're gonna get those people who get upset when you don't like their thing. I'm a musician, and the music community is full of tribal warfare across Reddit and RUclips over which plugin company is better than another. So yeah, I get why you'd want to avoid those topics, especially if it has a financial impact as well.
I watch GR (I'm not a player, I've never even tried it, I'm Linux based anyway) because I know it's gonna be actual gameplay, not scripted propaganda clips pretending to be game vlogging. I don't have time to play DCS, but I love aircraft and flight Sims, I played F-14 Tomcat on Commodore 64, I even have a fairly modern Logitech flight controller system with the foot pedals and stuff, I just don't have the time to learn all of those different airframes, radars and targetting systems. I have a pretty full on job (radio and live production stuff), and a family. Yeah, so watching you guys play is my vicarious way of enjoying DCS. I'd never thought to apply any of the outcomes of your sims to physical life, because it's a game. (I actually don't believe that most of the Russian and Chinese kit is as good in reality as DCS has coded them to be.)
It's like getting mad at a Crash Bandicoot player for getting stuck on a boss monster or something.
Even Cap knows
It seems Cap has a very special preference to Chinese jets in terms of aesthetics at least
SKYNET !
Ofcourse the ai would crash right when its about to hit the raptor
Raptors take it up to 70k feet and full burner they'd have been past all 4 groups before they knew you were there
Quality laughs
7:01 Nope, F-22 exhausts have been optimized for infrared LO. If you ever got close to one you will find small holes drilled over its exhaust nozzles, where cold air from inlets is being blown from in order to lower its infrared signatures, the most infrared radiation emitted comes from air friction, however it’s insufficient to be picked up by the IRST installed on su-35s at ranges over 20km as long as it cruises at subsonic speed.
That doesn't sound classified at all.
I have heard reports of this also BUT in game at least the F-22 makes same heat as F-15E and Su-27.
😂😂😂 nonsense
ruclips.net/video/l4y71pDy8t0/видео.htmlsi=Bo6Fpfw0dYLOxCX4
@@BBCRF Check the link for yourself if you have doubts in me🤷