Man. I almost choked up at the end when he explained that he was determined to get home for his son's birthday. This man is a good model for America's law enforcement. Thanks
Lt. Bob Stasch has been in 12 shootouts while an officer in Chicago. He says the most important things he can share to about gun fighting is to go for headshots, learn to shoot one handed, train for instinctive point shooting, carry extra magazine and carry a backup gun.
@@ChickenPermissionOG rifle, center mass. Pistol upper torso and head this dude took 6 vital hits and continued to shoot until he was shot in the head.
Bob mentioned it's shot placement not caliber, more then 14 gun fights he has credit for, capacity also can't be blamed for poor shot placement as bill Jordan mentioned and dan combs who used 6 shot revolvers and speed loaders, it's how the person handles the gun that determins outcome of a gun fight more then caliber and capacity
Retired LEO. I've had nightmares occasionally like this, where I could see the bullet strikes and pieces of meat flying off the suspect and yet he kept on coming. Very unsettling feeling. Good job, Officer.
@@FirstLast-gv1zl dude spear gold dot is a fine round, in fact its one of the most consistent hollow points in terms of penetration, and is still used by the NYPD. And another fact is some people are just more resilient than others, this guy took 6 fatal shots and kept fighting. The reason the rounds stopped in that jacket is the same reason in ww2 wool blankets were used to stop shrapnel. The bullets found lodged in the coat were caught and failed to penetrate when the material swung as the bullets struck, absorbing/redirecting some of the energy. The only way you can guarantee penetration is using a non hollow point round. Hollow points are Designed to stop overpenetration via expansion in turn causing more damage to the target. That's why police forces use them in the first place. Another thing to consider is the confirmed fact that the rounds stopped on the back side of that jacket, as is confirmed by multiple sources and video tests. What we have is a simple game of telephone. Information got passed from one person to another and instead of "the round did what it was made to do and stopped in the jacket after going through the guy." they ended up with "the round stopped in the jacket."
A legend interviewing a legend. Bought one of Ayoub’s books when I first got into shooting but then sent it to a buddy when he did a tour in Iraq 20 years ago
I appreciate hearing this story. I tend to practice shooting 2 center of mass and then 1 to the head for exactly the reason that Officer Gramins described.
The perp that officer Gramins encountered that day was one in a million. It is rare to come across an adversary who is that tough and determined to take multiple hits from a .45 ACP and keep coming. Officer Gramins did well by moving to a different spot when the bad guy went to his vehicle to get another gun. The perp expected to find Gramins in the same place as when he left. Instead he was elsewhere which gave Gramins a tactical advantage. We sometimes get so focused on placing shots into the center of the chest that we forget other ways of putting down an attacker. When the first few shots fail to take someone down, it is time to place shots in a different area such as the pelvis/groin or head. Another thing to consider is that once you've put multiple shots into someone the clock is ticking for them. They are continuously losing blood. If you are without injury, are physically able, and an opportunity to disengage and leave the situation presents itself, that may be the wise course of action. The bad guy may choose to attempt to find medical help rather than come looking to get filled with more holes. If they do decide to try hunting you down, they will lose more blood as time passes. The faster they try to move, the faster their heart must pump, and the faster they will lose blood. They will become slower and a more anemic adversary with the more ground they must cover trying to hunt you down.
Literally my thoughts. When the officer realised he lost him he should have actually bolted. Guy who doesn't go down after chest hits - hell no! Suspect may do some more harm before going down but backup is on the way. I would certainly not have the courage or stupidity to keep fighting someone, deathwish or something.
The lack of adequate consiquences is all that is needed to ensure violent criminals continue to prey on a peaceful society. LE needs all the funding and tools available until effective laws are in place.
Effective laws only affect law abiding citizens. How long do we have to put with the idiotic idea that criminals will obey laws? Remove the criminals, not the guns.
@@828enigma6 laws are only effective when they are chambered with effective consequences. Without effective consequences they are merely guidelines that will surely be ignored.
What??!?!? you mean that one single mention of a 45 ACP didn't immediately stop the suspect and throw him back 50 feet???!?!?!??? Every man over 60 I've ever met his lied to me...
@First Last Well, I work at a gun store, so you'd be really surprised at what some people tell me. But I guarantee you if they got a grey hair, they're gonna want to see the lever action, complain about the price, and then tell some guy shopping An unbelievable testimony about the miraculous powers of 22lr and the 45 ARP Edit: ohh, and tell people they should pump their shotgun at the beginning of a home invasion . 😆
Dude with the sunglasses on looks like Rossi from Criminal Minds lol On a serious note tho what an absolutely phenomenal job by Officer Gramins using his training expertise and instincts to perfection. Not every cop would've survived that shootout.
I can't remember who made them but whatever happened to the Hydra shock rounds I remember about 20 years ago they even offered it for 22 long rifle and it was devastating on small game
As a non shooter it seems to me bigger caliber hand gun rounds leave bigger holes for bleeding out of but untill the attacker has lost enough blood and his blood pressure drops he could still come at you.
capacity also can't be blamed for poor shot placement as bill Jordan mentioned and dan combs who used 6 shot revolvers and speed loaders, it's how the person handles the gun that determins outcome of a gun fight more then caliber and capacity, another police officer with a 45 may have handled situation better, just depends on circumstances and how officer reacts to a real situation, everything looks good on the range but real life events we may not shoot like we do on a range, not even a shot timer can't create real stress, often the timer stress is a person's focus on beating old times rather then seeing the target as a real threat, performance anxiety stress isn't the same stress as a real threat
Andrenaline, pistol bullets don't really do much damage compared to a rifle or shotgun so unless they're head shots or spine shots they're not going to be taken out of the fight immediatly unless it's a pyschological stop vs a physiologcial stop.
The officer ran to the suspect vehicle while the suspect was getting another firearm. The suspect then went to the officer vehicle and Officer Tim Gramins opened fire from the suspect vehicle while the suspect was unaware of where the officer was.
You are a jackass he can't carry any of those things he mentioned it you must of had your head up you're ass his department only allows them to carry 9mm 40cal and 45 acp . And 45 acp is going way faster then 900 fps. And do you know what +p means lol you probably don't.
BUT the head shot is MUCH harder to get. I think he did as good as an officer could do and should not change a thing about his tactics. Trying to go for a head shot could be a BIG mistake. As it was......the criminal was NOT going to last much longer in the fight.....and was probably just on the verge of dying just before the head shot. Even if he had missed the head shot the criminal was probably going to die VERY soon at that point.......proving that shooting for center of mass is still the best tactic. There is another video where a deranged drug addict attacks an officer with a knife and the officer starts retreating and shooting the offender. The shots did not stop the charging criminal until the officer had to shoot him in the head at point blank range. All said and done I think neither of these officers should change a thing. Getting those early hits is probably the most important thing. Doubtful the criminal can aim worth a darn after being hit in the lungs and heart.
This is NOT a criticism, just a observation. In situations like this, why are officers not trained to use the car as a weapon? In this officer's case, he may have been too close to respond in this fashion, but I've never heard of a suspect continuing to be a threat after a car being used on them.
they call the cop cars the "tomb" for a reason. you have no were to hide if a suspect is unloading on you. it may be metal, but most bullets are armor piercing and will go through the car like butter. cops are trained to get out of their car as soon as possible and take cover.
Man. I almost choked up at the end when he explained that he was determined to get home for his son's birthday. This man is a good model for America's law enforcement.
Thanks
Lt. Bob Stasch has been in 12 shootouts while an officer in Chicago. He says the most important things he can share to about gun fighting is to go for headshots, learn to shoot one handed, train for instinctive point shooting, carry extra magazine and carry a backup gun.
Carry a draco and u good
Plus a Bowie knife and a crossbow and you have yourself covered.
center mass heads move quickly.
@@ChickenPermissionOG rifle, center mass. Pistol upper torso and head this dude took 6 vital hits and continued to shoot until he was shot in the head.
Bob mentioned it's shot placement not caliber, more then 14 gun fights he has credit for, capacity also can't be blamed for poor shot placement as bill Jordan mentioned and dan combs who used 6 shot revolvers and speed loaders, it's how the person handles the gun that determins outcome of a gun fight more then caliber and capacity
Retired LEO. I've had nightmares occasionally like this, where I could see the bullet strikes and pieces of meat flying off the suspect and yet he kept on coming. Very unsettling feeling.
Good job, Officer.
No one can handle two taps to the hearth believe me
@@Memo-cu8er guy in this story did he kept coming, would of dropped eventually but not immediately
@@Memo-cu8er this guy took 6 vital hits and kept coming soooo yeah no.
@Chandler Russell exactly, always try to aim for debilitating shots, spine neck head upper chest. humans are not fragile creatures.
@@FirstLast-gv1zl dude spear gold dot is a fine round, in fact its one of the most consistent hollow points in terms of penetration, and is still used by the NYPD.
And another fact is some people are just more resilient than others, this guy took 6 fatal shots and kept fighting.
The reason the rounds stopped in that jacket is the same reason in ww2 wool blankets were used to stop shrapnel.
The bullets found lodged in the coat were caught and failed to penetrate when the material swung as the bullets struck, absorbing/redirecting some of the energy.
The only way you can guarantee penetration is using a non hollow point round. Hollow points are Designed to stop overpenetration via expansion in turn causing more damage to the target. That's why police forces use them in the first place.
Another thing to consider is the confirmed fact that the rounds stopped on the back side of that jacket, as is confirmed by multiple sources and video tests.
What we have is a simple game of telephone. Information got passed from one person to another and instead of "the round did what it was made to do and stopped in the jacket after going through the guy." they ended up with "the round stopped in the jacket."
A legend interviewing a legend. Bought one of Ayoub’s books when I first got into shooting but then sent it to a buddy when he did a tour in Iraq 20 years ago
Thanks for reposting these! I had these downloaded on an iPod years ago, nice to find them again!
those 45's are big, i got to rethink my ammo, great play by play, very glad you're here to tell it!
Amazing recall for detail. Great job, Officer Grammins.
I appreciate hearing this story. I tend to practice shooting 2 center of mass and then 1 to the head for exactly the reason that Officer Gramins described.
Mozambique technic !!!
Drop the skinnys
The perp that officer Gramins encountered that day was one in a million. It is rare to come across an adversary who is that tough and determined to take multiple hits from a .45 ACP and keep coming. Officer Gramins did well by moving to a different spot when the bad guy went to his vehicle to get another gun. The perp expected to find Gramins in the same place as when he left. Instead he was elsewhere which gave Gramins a tactical advantage. We sometimes get so focused on placing shots into the center of the chest that we forget other ways of putting down an attacker. When the first few shots fail to take someone down, it is time to place shots in a different area such as the pelvis/groin or head. Another thing to consider is that once you've put multiple shots into someone the clock is ticking for them. They are continuously losing blood. If you are without injury, are physically able, and an opportunity to disengage and leave the situation presents itself, that may be the wise course of action. The bad guy may choose to attempt to find medical help rather than come looking to get filled with more holes. If they do decide to try hunting you down, they will lose more blood as time passes. The faster they try to move, the faster their heart must pump, and the faster they will lose blood. They will become slower and a more anemic adversary with the more ground they must cover trying to hunt you down.
Literally my thoughts. When the officer realised he lost him he should have actually bolted. Guy who doesn't go down after chest hits - hell no! Suspect may do some more harm before going down but backup is on the way. I would certainly not have the courage or stupidity to keep fighting someone, deathwish or something.
To think that all this because he doesn't want to go to jail. Guy went through a world of pain rather than getting a sentence. Unreasonable.
"You don't need more than 10 rounds!"
> Officer Pence left the chat
> Deputy Dinkheller left the chat
> Officer Gramins enters the chat
" nobody needs more than 5 rounds !" Wealthy Democrat Party Lunatic -w- Private Security living in a gated community
Really great video it’s amazing to hear about the danger some people have been face to face with in this lifetime
The lack of adequate consiquences is all that is needed to ensure violent criminals continue to prey on a peaceful society. LE needs all the funding and tools available until effective laws are in place.
Effective laws only affect law abiding citizens. How long do we have to put with the idiotic idea that criminals will obey laws? Remove the criminals, not the guns.
@@828enigma6 laws are only effective when they are chambered with effective consequences. Without effective consequences they are merely guidelines that will surely be ignored.
Thanks MASS !
Awesome story! Merry Christmas and keep fighting on!
What??!?!? you mean that one single mention of a 45 ACP didn't immediately stop the suspect and throw him back 50 feet???!?!?!???
Every man over 60 I've ever met his lied to me...
@First Last Well, I work at a gun store, so you'd be really surprised at what some people tell me. But I guarantee you if they got a grey hair, they're gonna want to see the lever action, complain about the price, and then tell some guy shopping An unbelievable testimony about the miraculous powers of 22lr and the 45 ARP
Edit: ohh, and tell people they should pump their shotgun at the beginning of a home invasion . 😆
@First Last its a joke. Instead of 45 ACP I said ARP. Like AARP the senior citizen thing. 😆
Dude with the sunglasses on looks like Rossi from Criminal Minds lol On a serious note tho what an absolutely phenomenal job by Officer Gramins using his training expertise and instincts to perfection. Not every cop would've survived that shootout.
That’s Massad Ayoob a really great firearms expert
I can't remember who made them but whatever happened to the Hydra shock rounds I remember about 20 years ago they even offered it for 22 long rifle and it was devastating on small game
As a non shooter it seems to me bigger caliber hand gun rounds leave bigger holes for bleeding out of but untill the attacker has lost enough blood and his blood pressure drops he could still come at you.
capacity also can't be blamed for poor shot placement as bill Jordan mentioned and dan combs who used 6 shot revolvers and speed loaders, it's how the person handles the gun that determins outcome of a gun fight more then caliber and capacity, another police officer with a 45 may have handled situation better, just depends on circumstances and how officer reacts to a real situation, everything looks good on the range but real life events we may not shoot like we do on a range, not even a shot timer can't create real stress, often the timer stress is a person's focus on beating old times rather then seeing the target as a real threat, performance anxiety stress isn't the same stress as a real threat
How in the world was the suspect still standing
Andrenaline, pistol bullets don't really do much damage compared to a rifle or shotgun so unless they're head shots or spine shots they're not going to be taken out of the fight immediatly unless it's a pyschological stop vs a physiologcial stop.
@@ubcroel4022 thats true, but check this out. i guess, arguably, she wasn't that determined
ruclips.net/video/GLbKSysIc6Q/видео.html
He was built different
Sometimes you just really don't want to go to jail
Federal 125 gr JHP, old FBI round, has the most one shot stops.
This is why I keep six 17 round magazines close to my Glock.
How did perp miss? Did officer move/avoid somehow?
He had no swat training
The officer ran to the suspect vehicle while the suspect was getting another firearm. The suspect then went to the officer vehicle and Officer Tim Gramins opened fire from the suspect vehicle while the suspect was unaware of where the officer was.
Tim is a hero for ridding this earth of an evil Murdering monster in the face of death
👏 👏 👏
357 sig 125 grain at 1450 or 10mm 180 grain at 1300 are way better semi auto option, than 45 acp +p 230grain at 900 fps..
You are a jackass he can't carry any of those things he mentioned it you must of had your head up you're ass his department only allows them to carry 9mm 40cal and 45 acp . And 45 acp is going way faster then 900 fps. And do you know what +p means lol you probably don't.
BUT the head shot is MUCH harder to get. I think he did as good as an officer could do and should not change a thing about his tactics. Trying to go for a head shot could be a BIG mistake. As it was......the criminal was NOT going to last much longer in the fight.....and was probably just on the verge of dying just before the head shot. Even if he had missed the head shot the criminal was probably going to die VERY soon at that point.......proving that shooting for center of mass is still the best tactic.
There is another video where a deranged drug addict attacks an officer with a knife and the officer starts retreating and shooting the offender. The shots did not stop the charging criminal until the officer had to shoot him in the head at point blank range. All said and done I think neither of these officers should change a thing. Getting those early hits is probably the most important thing. Doubtful the criminal can aim worth a darn after being hit in the lungs and heart.
I think he was feeding on the lead
Theres so many ads in this video. I can't even skip ahead a couple minutes without an ad starting.
What are you talking about? There are no ads in this video.
Am I the only one who hears a younger Joe Rogan?
Me too 😂
This is NOT a criticism, just a observation. In situations like this, why are officers not trained to use the car as a weapon? In this officer's case, he may have been too close to respond in this fashion, but I've never heard of a suspect continuing to be a threat after a car being used on them.
they call the cop cars the "tomb" for a reason. you have no were to hide if a suspect is unloading on you. it may be metal, but most bullets are armor piercing and will go through the car like butter. cops are trained to get out of their car as soon as possible and take cover.
Pretty sure a 158 grain sjhp 357 mag at about 1300 fps, would end that Gunfight with one hit center mass....
Sound quality is trash, surely you can do better than poor phone quality in 2022…
Its a reupload