I could see them add a online play at some point but still they want people to get in local stores to play games if you have a local to grow the game. This is still the perfect game for online play and maybe a option to replace cards that get worn or lost not sure what they could price that at?
Offing up a platform that is direct competition with your own product is not smart. It is only sustainable if your product is already popular enough for it.
@@BloodLegaZ Since every deck is tracked by a unique QR code, maybe they could only sell decks physically and then you can register and play with your deck digitally, no competition then and I am sure it would boost sales
RoadtoRed The accent guy needs to slow down. Maybe he had eight cups of coffee before making the video. I’ve noticed he is also hard to understand in episode two.
Official Tournament Rules have been released. TL;DR: lost = no bueno; damaged = prox (if tournament leader allows) **Lost and Damaged Cards** Players should take extreme care not to lose a card from their deck. Because of the nature of KeyForge’s unique deck mechanic, it is not possible to find replacements for lost cards. Any player that discovers they are missing a card at the beginning of a round should notify a leader. The leader will give the player a short time extension to their game in order to search among their belongings to find the card. If the player cannot find the card within that time, they must concede the game. If the player cannot find the card before the start of the next round, they should be removed from the tournament. During a game, if a player discovers they are missing a card from their deck, they must concede the game. If the card simply fell on the floor due to carelessness, give the player a warning, fix the problem, and allow them to continue the game. If a player’s card becomes damaged during the course of the tournament, at a leader’s discretion a proxy card may be used. A leader will create the proxy, including the card name, the deck name, any information that is no longer legible or available on the damaged card, the name of the leader who created it, and the date it was created. The original card must be kept facedown and nearby, available for reference when the proxy card is played.
Thanks for the vid, helpful and a good format. The faux conversation worked really well and didn’t feel as dry as some of these can be. Also kudos for talking about the “no” parts of the game which people could feel negatively about. Much rather have FFG be open and honest.
I imagine that QR code has a lot to do with this, so it will probably be important. I'd imagine that once you register it, the code is locked on the app until you unlock it and let other user type in code to then retrieve it.
@@Krix6426 In tournaments you do. Remember all this talk is only in official context. If you show up to the shop for a friendly game nobody is going to force you to sleeve cards. I seriously doubt that anyway.
I've never played this game before, probably never will, but I'm always really interrested in game design (I study programming (aimed at video games) atm), which is why I watch these videos.
The odd thing to me about the opaque sleeves is that when you get sleeves from the Fantasy Flight Games website with your decks they are transparent. I can easily enough get opaque sleeves but I wish I knew this rule before choosing to get their clear sleeves.
Okay i guess ill remove all those clear sleeves i just put on my stellar deck and go buy more XD. Please just allow D6s for power increase and stun tokens because the stun and power cards are really cumbersome. Really excited for organised play. Just please standardise the layout of the board dont let people put their artifacts in front of their battle line and their archive on the rafters in the ceiling this is just silly. Thanks guys
I'm surprised that they want opaque sleeves - just to cut back on potential cheating - I realize a simple deck list check fixes it, but I just assumed they'd want clear sleeves on those unique backs....
There's more than one way to cheat. It's quite hard to insert cards which don't belong to your deck. It's quite easy to mark the back of cards in hard to see ways.
Decklists being public information in the "Archon" format seems like a huge mistake to me. A huge part of the draw for me is knowing what my opponent could have, but not knowing for sure what they do have, especially in the first game in a BO3 series. Now every major event the beginning of every game will be each player studying their opponent's decklist and that is lame as hell.
Then just don't play constructed, play the sealed format where you RIP open a new deck and dont have to show opponents your cards. Also the app will keep track of decks. At the start of a match each player will just scan the qr code of their opponent to pull up their deck list, no study required.
Of course like in other games there is a time limit allowed for shuffling and prepping for a round and you would have a time limit to read your opponents decklist you know a minute should be enough if you are reasonably intelligent person who has memorized e370 cards there are in total in the entire game
@@BloodLegaZ but still you need to know YOUR own deck and it needs time to figure out your build. Something that has been emphasised on multiple times that's the beauty of this game is to know and understand how your deck can be played
Considering decks can't be customized with single cards, what happens in the event a card is stolen or lost? The deck would become unplayable unless items can be replaced. Does anyone know if this will be an option; single card replacement?
This is a very good point. I would imagine you can mail them to print you another copy? It's not like it holds any value outside your deck so it shouldn't be a huge deal.
It helps that there is a full list of your deck tho, so if some components are lost you could get permission to replace the missing ones as long as you have the full list. Maybe a temporary proxy can be printed in its place?
I don't know proxy seem ok since you have the deck list on back of anchron but from what vibe was it would be no but would there be a way to replace card from them?
In the official rules they have a section in there that covers this. Basically, a judge can make them a proxy to use during a tournament or other event until they can find or replace their card. It doesn't, however, specify whether FFG currently has or will have some system in place to ship out individual replacement cards. I would guess they'll have to lean in that direction sooner or later because losing or damaging just one card makes your deck unplayable.
Is there a way to get a look into the algorithm? Decks seemed to be wildly unbalanced in our local store event, with one deck winning every game in a couple turns and two others apparently having zero synergy whatsoever
Would like to see some experimentation in formats. For example - in Sealed it would be great if players could buy up to THREE decks, then choose one of them for the event. The issue is that SOME element of skill in deck choosing would help, as in other sealed format (mtG) there is a lot of skill in deck building. At least buy up to 3 pick 1 gives players some agency.
I'm thinking of draft. Buy three decks, draft out singles from them and custom build your own deck with whatever houses, even more than 3 if you want, have fun. When your done everything has names so no cards get messed up and they all go back to their own decks.
Disappointed for no dice, are we playing on rickety tables with uneven legs or something? I get d20 or maybe d12 but d4 and (non rounded corner) d6 are quite stable.
It's not about the tables. Things happen where stuff gets knocked over and people play cards and things get shifted. It's easier to use tokens instead of dice. This was also a thing with netrunner.
@@claytonharring8514 The tables thing was more of a joke. You could argue the same thing with tokens, things happen and get knocked around tokens can slide around. I will follow the rules they set out because I enjoy the game, I was just saying I don't agree with their logic.
WOTC/Magic The Gathering uses dice for markers in their tournaments, even in the bigger ones that have 6-figures cash money prizes. But FFG that offers lousy prize support won't allow dice because reasons... seems legit! :)
> www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/op/keyforge/ > dealing with FFG for years I'd say it's more of the same: playmats, tokens, paper deckboxes... everything that would make this game attractive and ultra-competitive so you won't play with dice as tokens/markers and have a chance to change the dice faces.
Look up Netrunner (FFGs most succesful card game so far) world finals 2015. The winner used dice, which created a situation noone in the live audience, including both players and the judge, could resolve. As a player who played both in netrunner against a lot of players with tokens and a lot of players with dice, i prefer tokens any day cause the board state and each change of the board state is much easier to follow.
Magic the gathering has been played for years using dice and I cant think of any arguments that started with, "oops the table shifted that should have less..." I wouldn't worry about it. I'm using dice for sure. Imma go to dollar tree and get the aquarium rocks for amber, dice for damage, and something for stun idk yet.
Personally, I think I'm going to use dice for creatures with special power changes, but use tokens for permanent bonus power effects on creatures. So for instance, if I have a Staunch Knight on the flank (4 power, text is "Staunch Knight gets +2 power while it is on a flank"), I'd put a die on 6 on top of his power, to serve as a reminder that he's got a bonus to power. For a creature like Zyzzix the Many, I'd still use some sort of token to track his permanent power increases, but I'd also use a die to track his current total power.
This stems from other games FFG has made, and they were having issues with dice. In fact, at world championships one year, on day two, there were concerns over a die that got reset after a table bump. There have also been many MANY issues in other games. Magic has caught a lot of people cheating with dice as they’re easy to manipulate. FFG just wants to skip the problems. Annoying for sure, but not a big deal in the long run.
Is there a place to find rules on individual cards and interactions not covered in the rulebook yet? It also seems the rulebook hasn't been updated in nearly two months,, surely some card interaction examples could be added or something. Timing seems to be almost completely left out.
Channel+ BGG rules forums are the best place so far, if you don't mind wading through discussions that may or may not have official rulings in the discussion.
Opaque. Meaning a solid color sleeve so if the back of the card is marked or scratched you cant tell. Ultra pro Eclipse sleeves should fit this I think, havnt touched the cards yet, but if they do I reccomend those.
I'm disappointed by the dice ruling especially for power and armour. I get it, but it's incredibly frustrating when the supplied option for tracking it really is not useful for a lot of the cards and interactions in the game and small dice are simple and effective instead of trying to stack 15 +1 power cards under Xyxlix the Many or remember who has how much armour each turn when Grey Monk and Bulwark get involved...
Agree. I fail to see how 10 pieces of damage cardboard, some power cards, the occasional stun card, and equipment, ALL on one card is better than dice. Seems like an oversight to me.
How big is Xyxlix again? *Counts damage cards, 15 power. And how much damage is on him? *Counts some more cards, 6 Oh crap, he's got armor too? Could you....? Fuck it, I concede.
@@bobdole8830 I'd be more ok with it if the starter actually had stuff to track armour and a better way to track power. But it doesn't. And they didn't make enough of them. Oh well, just spending tons of money on shiny things on Etsy.
Top level tournaments will have opaque sleeves so that you cannot see a marked/damaged card when it is on your deck - an anti cheating mechanism. For events run at your local shops/clubs it is up to the discretion of the tournament organiser. Most tournament organiser will be relaxed until the first cheater is caught playing at their event then they will probably make opaque sleeves the normal. Social play you can just do whatever.
Six sided dice should be allowed for tournament play, its the players responsiblity to monitor the game state and ensure honest and fair competition. Seriously FFG doesnt need to reinvent the wheel on card tournament play...
While I agree, they are being extra cautious with all of the negative attention magic is receiving in regards to cheating. Pretty much a 'this-is-why-we-cant-have-nice-things' moment.
We can still use dice in casual play. I think the main reason is that since it's a new game they wanted to create some standards right off the bat. In order to ensure the play environment they want, they have created this standard rather than relying on the individual rulings of hundreds of judges and store owners. People can change, standards don't.
Still, 6 sided dice are the most stable dice out there. The only thing more stable is a d4, and if anything, a d4 is harder to knock over. D6s should be allowed. Not for Amber, but for like damage.
Sad to hear we won't be able to play the game with the app. I'm the only one in my area with interest in the game. There's not much point in buying it if I rarely, if ever, get to play it.
Pretty easy to code due to the asynchronous play. But then how would they make you pay again. They can’t “sell” you another deck online so why have it...
They could have tournaments that cost money to get into for online play then you win swag or gift cards. I dunno it would be nice to have online to test decks just not many options for them to make more money from it.
How will the Chain bound events handle a powerful deck that starts loosing, will it drop chains? What if someone then lose on purpose just to drop chains.
They said that is store owned. So you would have to ask your local game store I think. I can't imagine somebody coming and paying for a tournament just to lose so they can decrease their chains.
@@BloodLegaZ that's naive -- people will bend every rule they can to improve their winning odds. if you already have a guaranteed nationals seat, then you could go to a bunch of regionals and store champs to reduce your chains, thereby increasing your chance to win nats
Dude totally missed the #1 question - not what sleeves, but WHAT SIZED? I could have figured out for tourney play they will want sleeved cards that are clear - totally understand that.
This is the problem with the game: way too many questions. At first it appears to be a simpler version of magic the gathering and in fact ends up being more complicated. I was initially interested but the constant errata and questions on every forum is a big turn off. I'll stick with Forge and MTG.
Are they pronouncing it crushible? That's not how the word is pronounced at all! Is this just another in a line of weird pronunciations like with Aember? :P
If you need to use opaque sleeves in some, possibly most tournaments, why does your product page encourage people to buy clear sleeves. If you click on the link that talks about sleeves it adds clear sleeves to your cart. Why are you selling people sleeves they can't use in your tournaments?
Also, in the first version of the tournament rules that where used at the prerelease in Essen, all customers were told to bring clear sleeves so the backs of the cards can be seen. Thus i bought a lot of clear sleeves in preparation...i can see the point about marks but i am disappointed that it was stated different before.
Just how impractical would it be to offer a chance to buy one shot sleeves with the backing generated like the card backing is? I don't know how feasible custom sleeve printing would be, but the image generation tech is already in place for the printing, this would just add a bit to it. For the right deck, dropping $10 on a set of sleeves with the deck's backing wouldn't seem that outlandish at all.
That seems like it would be a lot of lost money on their part. If I print a custom sleeve that only goes to one deck and that person do not want those sleeves then nobody else will because they are unique, money lost. Also Fantasy Flight games does not make their own card sleeves so there is a large investment in trying to get those sleeves to be printed. I did recommend getting clear sleeves for non tournament events and another set of sleeves for tournament events that you can double sleeve with.
@@BloodLegaZ Thanks for the info on their sleeves, I wasn't aware of that. So, rather impractical. I was thinking print on demand for the sleeves. Since it hasn't been done before that I'm aware of, I was wondering just how impractical it would be. Could be a new market or something an up and comer company could release as their niche.
Anybody see the announcement about the accidentally racist Archon names? Unfortunate mistake, but in exchange for returning it after it is disqualified from play, they'll spot you two new decks. www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/11/9/archon-names/
Dear lord, why on earth would you make decklists public. Is it to slow the game down? Or just to destroy the opponent’s discovery of your deck in constructed. This will make games crawl as it encourages card counting and it just destroys many interesting lines of play. You simply can’t “represent” cards that aren’t in your pool. Also, new players you need to know every card name so get to work. What a fail I can’t imagine why they did this!? Something with the online?! Wow soo bad. I expect they’ll change it after a couple tourneys but it makes it look like the people in charge have no idea what they are doing.
Because in all other card games I know what's in your deck 80% of the time because their is a meta. The way this game works though it almost won't matter knowing what your opponents have you line of play rarely stems from it. If they have that board wipe card in their deck are you not going to play creatures? It just doesn't matter as much because resources are never spent to do things in this game.
BloodLegaZ I agree it doesn’t matter to lines that much. But it does slow things down and will make some players play very slowly. Also, knowing the opponent’s deck because there is a meta is something that this game “solves” as long as you don’t give them your decklist...
@@alexmoisant5732 Not really. Being meta in something like magic means these cards here are the ones that are super strong right now. What you're refering to is strategy. Like If I make a Milling deck, you know my strategy, but it could not be meta. So KF does solve the meta problem
crushy crawfishy I’m referring to the super boring situation in standard magic where my opponent plays a mountain and I’m ready to bet any amount of money I can name 80-90% of their deck. That is my problem with “a meta”. Boredom. Draft and sealed are more fun because you don’t know their deck. I don’t understand why you can see their decklist. I don’t get what would make them create that rule. Whatever the reason is, I don’t think it’s worth the loss of discovery and the extra time people will spend “card counting” which you are forcing all even remotely spikey players to do...
I hope the community will make their own mode: Wild. A constructed build from a mix of decks with rules on how many cards and such. Wanna see the craziest combos out there.
I think sleeves for OP is dumb, if you want to require a sleeve then the cards should come with sleeves so that you could actually play with the product as sold... dumb. I know it's not uncommon, but it's still dumb.
It's really the only way for OP. When your cards gets damaged during the tournament, you will be able to continue since the card is marked and your deck illegal
Not including sleeves is how to keep the price down for the decks themselves. Most people won't participate in organized play so this keeps them at $10 instead of $11 or $12.
You need to get online play on the app. That will take the game to amazing levels being able to play practice games asynchronously.
I have no way to play in person. Playing on the app would be a godsend and would catapult KeyForge into the stratosphere.
I could see them add a online play at some point but still they want people to get in local stores to play games if you have a local to grow the game. This is still the perfect game for online play and maybe a option to replace cards that get worn or lost not sure what they could price that at?
Offing up a platform that is direct competition with your own product is not smart. It is only sustainable if your product is already popular enough for it.
@@BloodLegaZ Since every deck is tracked by a unique QR code, maybe they could only sell decks physically and then you can register and play with your deck digitally, no competition then and I am sure it would boost sales
There is a way to play on line - thecrucible.online/
Love it. Thank everyone for taking the time to walk through this. Can't wait to see what OP has in store for this game!
I love how the guy answering the questions has such a mumbly accent that even youtube closed captions cant understand him. great job
RoadtoRed The accent guy needs to slow down. Maybe he had eight cups of coffee before making the video. I’ve noticed he is also hard to understand in episode two.
Great video, what happens if a card becomes lost or damaged, will there be a way to get a replacement for tournament play?
I think there could be a fee to replace a card or a whole deck with discount but no official word about that yet I think.
Official Tournament Rules have been released.
TL;DR: lost = no bueno; damaged = prox (if tournament leader allows)
**Lost and Damaged Cards**
Players should take extreme care not to lose a card from their deck. Because of the nature of KeyForge’s unique deck mechanic, it is not possible to find replacements for lost cards. Any player that discovers they are missing a card at the beginning of a round should notify a leader. The leader will give the player a short time extension to their game in order to search among their belongings to find
the card. If the player cannot find the card within that time, they must concede the game. If the player cannot find the card before the start of the next round, they should be removed from the tournament.
During a game, if a player discovers they are missing a card from their deck, they must concede the game. If the card simply fell on the floor due to carelessness, give the player a warning, fix the problem, and allow them to continue the game.
If a player’s card becomes damaged during the course of the tournament, at a leader’s discretion a proxy card may be used. A leader will create the proxy, including the card name, the deck name, any information that is no longer legible or available on the damaged card, the name of the leader who created it, and the date it was created. The original card must be kept facedown and nearby, available for reference when the proxy card is played.
I really hope that the app has a direct and offline access for the last version of the rules
Thanks for the vid, helpful and a good format. The faux conversation worked really well and didn’t feel as dry as some of these can be. Also kudos for talking about the “no” parts of the game which people could feel negatively about. Much rather have FFG be open and honest.
Thanks for these clarifications. Super excited for the pre-releases this weekend!
Not a lot of Keyforge available to start off with at my local gaming shop. I can't wait for more to be shipped, because I love supporting them.
Will we be able to unregister a deck if we trade it to someone?
I heard you could trade decks with a way to unregister it and register to a new person but I hope to get a offical response.
I imagine that QR code has a lot to do with this, so it will probably be important.
I'd imagine that once you register it, the code is locked on the app until you unlock it and let other user type in code to then retrieve it.
Do you have to use sleeves? I like my cards bare.
@@Krix6426 You probably will need sleeves for official tournaments.
@@Krix6426 In tournaments you do. Remember all this talk is only in official context. If you show up to the shop for a friendly game nobody is going to force you to sleeve cards. I seriously doubt that anyway.
Since you plan on keeping the rules updated online with FAQs are you planning on making that information available on the app as well?
Great information session!
I've never played this game before, probably never will, but I'm always really interrested in game design (I study programming (aimed at video games) atm), which is why I watch these videos.
Are the set starter decks allowed to be played with or are they just for informal play?
The odd thing to me about the opaque sleeves is that when you get sleeves from the Fantasy Flight Games website with your decks they are transparent. I can easily enough get opaque sleeves but I wish I knew this rule before choosing to get their clear sleeves.
*Please add the rulebook to the app*
Matthew Peterson and add it to the starter set 🤣🤣 that folded paper is a sad representation of the full rules set online.
I couldn't find the link for rules questions, where is it?
Okay i guess ill remove all those clear sleeves i just put on my stellar deck and go buy more XD. Please just allow D6s for power increase and stun tokens because the stun and power cards are really cumbersome. Really excited for organised play. Just please standardise the layout of the board dont let people put their artifacts in front of their battle line and their archive on the rafters in the ceiling this is just silly. Thanks guys
I'm surprised that they want opaque sleeves - just to cut back on potential cheating - I realize a simple deck list check fixes it, but I just assumed they'd want clear sleeves on those unique backs....
They are only talking about tournament play when they say you need those.
The opaque sleeves conceal incidental damage to cards.
There's more than one way to cheat. It's quite hard to insert cards which don't belong to your deck. It's quite easy to mark the back of cards in hard to see ways.
I like how the hosts are wearing non-obvious pins of some of the houses. I only spotted 3 but wonder if all 7 are in there
Decklists being public information in the "Archon" format seems like a huge mistake to me. A huge part of the draw for me is knowing what my opponent could have, but not knowing for sure what they do have, especially in the first game in a BO3 series. Now every major event the beginning of every game will be each player studying their opponent's decklist and that is lame as hell.
Then just don't play constructed, play the sealed format where you RIP open a new deck and dont have to show opponents your cards.
Also the app will keep track of decks. At the start of a match each player will just scan the qr code of their opponent to pull up their deck list, no study required.
@@BloodLegaZ you would still be studying the deck list to figure out what their plan is and which bombs you need to play around.
Of course like in other games there is a time limit allowed for shuffling and prepping for a round and you would have a time limit to read your opponents decklist you know a minute should be enough if you are reasonably intelligent person who has memorized e370 cards there are in total in the entire game
@@BloodLegaZ but still you need to know YOUR own deck and it needs time to figure out your build. Something that has been emphasised on multiple times that's the beauty of this game is to know and understand how your deck can be played
With the success of L5R in Brazil, any thoughts of Keyforge to come to Brazil?
So may I check opponent's list WHILE playing Archon format or JUST BEFORE the match?
Awesome. Thanks guy for talking about a lot of this stuff.
When will the app be able to track the wins and losses?
So helpful! Thank you so much! :D
I am so excited.
for big organized events like nationals, are there going to be no chains whatsoever?
Considering decks can't be customized with single cards, what happens in the event a card is stolen or lost? The deck would become unplayable unless items can be replaced. Does anyone know if this will be an option; single card replacement?
This is a very good point. I would imagine you can mail them to print you another copy?
It's not like it holds any value outside your deck so it shouldn't be a huge deal.
It helps that there is a full list of your deck tho, so if some components are lost you could get permission to replace the missing ones as long as you have the full list. Maybe a temporary proxy can be printed in its place?
I don't know proxy seem ok since you have the deck list on back of anchron but from what vibe was it would be no but would there be a way to replace card from them?
In the official rules they have a section in there that covers this. Basically, a judge can make them a proxy to use during a tournament or other event until they can find or replace their card. It doesn't, however, specify whether FFG currently has or will have some system in place to ship out individual replacement cards. I would guess they'll have to lean in that direction sooner or later because losing or damaging just one card makes your deck unplayable.
Is there a way to get a look into the algorithm? Decks seemed to be wildly unbalanced in our local store event, with one deck winning every game in a couple turns and two others apparently having zero synergy whatsoever
Will there be age (kids) classes in organized play?
Love this company
This game looks really fun. It's an interesting idea. And has a ton of tokens (classic fantasy flight)
IMO, Keyforge HAS to become playable online. It would be a huge mistake not to develop it in a near future.
evok 993 indeed
thecrucible.online
@@KrzysztofWitta not the same at all than an official app and its possibility... :/
Pretty sure Garfield said that it would be at some point.
In tabletop simulator also.
How will stores track these chained events?
Would like to see some experimentation in formats.
For example - in Sealed it would be great if players could buy up to THREE decks, then choose one of them for the event.
The issue is that SOME element of skill in deck choosing would help, as in other sealed format (mtG) there is a lot of skill in deck building.
At least buy up to 3 pick 1 gives players some agency.
I'm thinking of draft. Buy three decks, draft out singles from them and custom build your own deck with whatever houses, even more than 3 if you want, have fun.
When your done everything has names so no cards get messed up and they all go back to their own decks.
omg it's Alex Watkins! The world's greatest x-wing TO
Disappointed for no dice, are we playing on rickety tables with uneven legs or something? I get d20 or maybe d12 but d4 and (non rounded corner) d6 are quite stable.
It's not about the tables. Things happen where stuff gets knocked over and people play cards and things get shifted. It's easier to use tokens instead of dice. This was also a thing with netrunner.
@@claytonharring8514 The tables thing was more of a joke. You could argue the same thing with tokens, things happen and get knocked around tokens can slide around.
I will follow the rules they set out because I enjoy the game, I was just saying I don't agree with their logic.
WOTC/Magic The Gathering uses dice for markers in their tournaments, even in the bigger ones that have 6-figures cash money prizes.
But FFG that offers lousy prize support won't allow dice because reasons... seems legit! :)
> www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/op/keyforge/ > dealing with FFG for years I'd say it's more of the same: playmats, tokens, paper deckboxes... everything that would make this game attractive and ultra-competitive so you won't play with dice as tokens/markers and have a chance to change the dice faces.
Look up Netrunner (FFGs most succesful card game so far) world finals 2015. The winner used dice, which created a situation noone in the live audience, including both players and the judge, could resolve. As a player who played both in netrunner against a lot of players with tokens and a lot of players with dice, i prefer tokens any day cause the board state and each change of the board state is much easier to follow.
Is every deck really different or are there decks with the same cards in them?
Develop online play. It's the logical, current gen way to blow this game sky high. Buy a deck IRL and play it on multiple formats!
No dice for Amber is cool, but not allowing dice for power and damage makes no sense at all. I hope they go back on this.
Magic the gathering has been played for years using dice and I cant think of any arguments that started with, "oops the table shifted that should have less..."
I wouldn't worry about it. I'm using dice for sure.
Imma go to dollar tree and get the aquarium rocks for amber, dice for damage, and something for stun idk yet.
Personally, I think I'm going to use dice for creatures with special power changes, but use tokens for permanent bonus power effects on creatures. So for instance, if I have a Staunch Knight on the flank (4 power, text is "Staunch Knight gets +2 power while it is on a flank"), I'd put a die on 6 on top of his power, to serve as a reminder that he's got a bonus to power. For a creature like Zyzzix the Many, I'd still use some sort of token to track his permanent power increases, but I'd also use a die to track his current total power.
This stems from other games FFG has made, and they were having issues with dice. In fact, at world championships one year, on day two, there were concerns over a die that got reset after a table bump. There have also been many MANY issues in other games. Magic has caught a lot of people cheating with dice as they’re easy to manipulate. FFG just wants to skip the problems. Annoying for sure, but not a big deal in the long run.
Dice make perfect sense for Amber and damage. And are the most obvious solution. I want to berate these jokers to their faces. Rough sauce.
As has been said, players have used D20s for life in Mtg for years.
Has the app launched? I can't seem to find it
Is there a place to find rules on individual cards and interactions not covered in the rulebook yet? It also seems the rulebook hasn't been updated in nearly two months,, surely some card interaction examples could be added or something. Timing seems to be almost completely left out.
Channel+ No, for timing, read the "Active Player" definition in the glossary section.
Channel+ BGG rules forums are the best place so far, if you don't mind wading through discussions that may or may not have official rulings in the discussion.
What happens when a captured creature gets returned to the deck but still has Amber on it
Will TOME support Keyforge?
I'll bring my tungsten dice. They don't move. ;)
what kind of sleeves were you suggesting because i could not hear it please answer if you can
Opaque. Meaning a solid color sleeve so if the back of the card is marked or scratched you cant tell.
Ultra pro Eclipse sleeves should fit this I think, havnt touched the cards yet, but if they do I reccomend those.
Thanks for reply but does this mean that a check is needed to be sure the deck is not altered?
@@Gamr101 The name of the deck is also on the front of the cards
I'm disappointed by the dice ruling especially for power and armour. I get it, but it's incredibly frustrating when the supplied option for tracking it really is not useful for a lot of the cards and interactions in the game and small dice are simple and effective instead of trying to stack 15 +1 power cards under Xyxlix the Many or remember who has how much armour each turn when Grey Monk and Bulwark get involved...
Agree. I fail to see how 10 pieces of damage cardboard, some power cards, the occasional stun card, and equipment, ALL on one card is better than dice. Seems like an oversight to me.
How big is Xyxlix again?
*Counts damage cards, 15 power.
And how much damage is on him?
*Counts some more cards, 6
Oh crap, he's got armor too? Could you....?
Fuck it, I concede.
Because otherwise you won't buy the useless corebox. I mean a core box that doesn't even come with the RULEBOOK are you kidding me?
@@bobdole8830 I'd be more ok with it if the starter actually had stuff to track armour and a better way to track power. But it doesn't. And they didn't make enough of them. Oh well, just spending tons of money on shiny things on Etsy.
Can someone summarise the sleeve's ruling for me cause i didnt really get it
Top level tournaments will have opaque sleeves so that you cannot see a marked/damaged card when it is on your deck - an anti cheating mechanism. For events run at your local shops/clubs it is up to the discretion of the tournament organiser. Most tournament organiser will be relaxed until the first cheater is caught playing at their event then they will probably make opaque sleeves the normal. Social play you can just do whatever.
Six sided dice should be allowed for tournament play, its the players responsiblity to monitor the game state and ensure honest and fair competition. Seriously FFG doesnt need to reinvent the wheel on card tournament play...
While I agree, they are being extra cautious with all of the negative attention magic is receiving in regards to cheating. Pretty much a 'this-is-why-we-cant-have-nice-things' moment.
@@em3sis yeah, this sounds about right
D6 are hard as fuck to knock on the wrong side
We can still use dice in casual play. I think the main reason is that since it's a new game they wanted to create some standards right off the bat. In order to ensure the play environment they want, they have created this standard rather than relying on the individual rulings of hundreds of judges and store owners. People can change, standards don't.
Still, 6 sided dice are the most stable dice out there. The only thing more stable is a d4, and if anything, a d4 is harder to knock over. D6s should be allowed. Not for Amber, but for like damage.
This game is screaming to be on digital platform with the QR scanning of decks. The first physical/digital card game....
So if I play really well with my deck in tournaments I get punished by getting chains?? This punishes skillful play.
Sad to hear we won't be able to play the game with the app. I'm the only one in my area with interest in the game. There's not much point in buying it if I rarely, if ever, get to play it.
TechnoGolem I thought they said they will build an app
Pretty easy to code due to the asynchronous play. But then how would they make you pay again. They can’t “sell” you another deck online so why have it...
They could have tournaments that cost money to get into for online play then you win swag or gift cards. I dunno it would be nice to have online to test decks just not many options for them to make more money from it.
www.thecrucible.online is what I have been using. It's not perfect, but it works.
@@alexmoisant5732 with the qr code, it is sooooooo simple. People Just have to buy a real deck to play it online ;)
What are the names of these people?
How will the Chain bound events handle a powerful deck that starts loosing, will it drop chains? What if someone then lose on purpose just to drop chains.
They said that is store owned. So you would have to ask your local game store I think.
I can't imagine somebody coming and paying for a tournament just to lose so they can decrease their chains.
@@BloodLegaZ that's naive -- people will bend every rule they can to improve their winning odds. if you already have a guaranteed nationals seat, then you could go to a bunch of regionals and store champs to reduce your chains, thereby increasing your chance to win nats
I can't use dice? What?
Android 2.0 with real investigating, not a frame job.
Dude totally missed the #1 question - not what sleeves, but WHAT SIZED? I could have figured out for tourney play they will want sleeved cards that are clear - totally understand that.
They're standard M:TG size
Grab Eclipse sleeves, they will do you just fine.
They said opaque, not clear.
64x89 mm
Size you make them sloppy and loose
This is the problem with the game: way too many questions. At first it appears to be a simpler version of magic the gathering and in fact ends up being more complicated. I was initially interested but the constant errata and questions on every forum is a big turn off. I'll stick with Forge and MTG.
Are they pronouncing it crushible? That's not how the word is pronounced at all! Is this just another in a line of weird pronunciations like with Aember? :P
If you need to use opaque sleeves in some, possibly most tournaments, why does your product page encourage people to buy clear sleeves. If you click on the link that talks about sleeves it adds clear sleeves to your cart. Why are you selling people sleeves they can't use in your tournaments?
Also, in the first version of the tournament rules that where used at the prerelease in Essen, all customers were told to bring clear sleeves so the backs of the cards can be seen. Thus i bought a lot of clear sleeves in preparation...i can see the point about marks but i am disappointed that it was stated different before.
No rules questions yet in this first one.
Wow i really thougth the app would be für online play. Real bummer its not!
Why are they so anti dice, It works in mtg it works here.
Just how impractical would it be to offer a chance to buy one shot sleeves with the backing generated like the card backing is? I don't know how feasible custom sleeve printing would be, but the image generation tech is already in place for the printing, this would just add a bit to it. For the right deck, dropping $10 on a set of sleeves with the deck's backing wouldn't seem that outlandish at all.
Josh Helton it would be cheaper and better to just get clear sleeves that show the back wouldn’t it?
BerezaOnFire yes it would, if they didn't specify the need for opaque sleeves.
That seems like it would be a lot of lost money on their part. If I print a custom sleeve that only goes to one deck and that person do not want those sleeves then nobody else will because they are unique, money lost.
Also Fantasy Flight games does not make their own card sleeves so there is a large investment in trying to get those sleeves to be printed.
I did recommend getting clear sleeves for non tournament events and another set of sleeves for tournament events that you can double sleeve with.
@@BloodLegaZ Thanks for the info on their sleeves, I wasn't aware of that. So, rather impractical. I was thinking print on demand for the sleeves. Since it hasn't been done before that I'm aware of, I was wondering just how impractical it would be. Could be a new market or something an up and comer company could release as their niche.
Anybody see the announcement about the accidentally racist Archon names? Unfortunate mistake, but in exchange for returning it after it is disqualified from play, they'll spot you two new decks. www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/11/9/archon-names/
Dear lord, why on earth would you make decklists public. Is it to slow the game down? Or just to destroy the opponent’s discovery of your deck in constructed. This will make games crawl as it encourages card counting and it just destroys many interesting lines of play. You simply can’t “represent” cards that aren’t in your pool. Also, new players you need to know every card name so get to work. What a fail I can’t imagine why they did this!? Something with the online?! Wow soo bad. I expect they’ll change it after a couple tourneys but it makes it look like the people in charge have no idea what they are doing.
Because in all other card games I know what's in your deck 80% of the time because their is a meta. The way this game works though it almost won't matter knowing what your opponents have you line of play rarely stems from it.
If they have that board wipe card in their deck are you not going to play creatures? It just doesn't matter as much because resources are never spent to do things in this game.
BloodLegaZ
I agree it doesn’t matter to lines that much. But it does slow things down and will make some players play very slowly. Also, knowing the opponent’s deck because there is a meta is something that this game “solves” as long as you don’t give them your decklist...
@@alexmoisant5732 Not really. Being meta in something like magic means these cards here are the ones that are super strong right now. What you're refering to is strategy. Like If I make a Milling deck, you know my strategy, but it could not be meta.
So KF does solve the meta problem
I would be far more interested in seeing what cards the best decks have in common.
crushy crawfishy
I’m referring to the super boring situation in standard magic where my opponent plays a mountain and I’m ready to bet any amount of money I can name 80-90% of their deck.
That is my problem with “a meta”. Boredom. Draft and sealed are more fun because you don’t know their deck.
I don’t understand why you can see their decklist. I don’t get what would make them create that rule. Whatever the reason is, I don’t think it’s worth the loss of discovery and the extra time people will spend “card counting” which you are forcing all even remotely spikey players to do...
Please please Mr. Garfield, add online play to the app! PLEASE!
Mr. Garfield is just a name in the box... and he's busy collecting paychecks! :D
Apparently he wanted to, he said it... But it seems they don't care.
Same background music as the Netrunner tutorial video from FFG.
ruclips.net/video/VAslVfZ9p-Y/видео.html
5:30 good god no; the layout should be standardized to avoid cheating in a tournament environment...
I hope the community will make their own mode: Wild. A constructed build from a mix of decks with rules on how many cards and such. Wanna see the craziest combos out there.
Can we call you buff daddy?
keyfrog op pls nerf
I think sleeves for OP is dumb, if you want to require a sleeve then the cards should come with sleeves so that you could actually play with the product as sold... dumb. I know it's not uncommon, but it's still dumb.
It's really the only way for OP. When your cards gets damaged during the tournament, you will be able to continue since the card is marked and your deck illegal
Not including sleeves is how to keep the price down for the decks themselves. Most people won't participate in organized play so this keeps them at $10 instead of $11 or $12.
Thank god. No dice.
A wild hipster appeared...