Need a Guild for Alpha 2? Jump in my discord and and apply to be in Organized Chaos! discord.gg/wpANbdDUAE Follow me over on Twitch for Ashes of Creations Streams: www.twitch.tv/xillin
dude your starting with arguabley the worst take by stating that the "does this class look, play, and feel how you would expect a class by its name and lore to look like?" as a null and void take that means nothing. firstly, ashes plans to have strong class identity in regards to the base classes lining up with that first defenition with the primary archtypes being the ones that determines what ULTIMATELY your class is with than augments are the latter defention where you than add the flavor to make it something unique with if i remember right, a planned average of around 40 abilites for each class with each ability being able to take on a single augment from the list of avalible primary, secondary, racial, and whatever other augment sources you have like node citizen or guild augments perhaps even as well as abilities offered from those same sorts of guild/node citizen type things to add to that massive list of abilites you can choose from esepecially when you consider that it seems the leveling system and ability selections works almost like warhammer 40k darktide where your given a certain number of points that, SURE you CAN get a full 20 abilites and i wouldnt be suprised if they expect like 10 to 20 abilites on average to be the norm BUT you can and perhaps would be better off selecting just 10 to maybe 15 abilites as you can invest extra points into already unlocked abilites to boost their strength further meaning that with the amount of spells to select from, even if they all are strong in their class identity, you can use the massive list of augments which dont change the abilites core function but aspects around how it inacts its function to truly make the latter defention of making each subclass look, play, and feel like you would expect it to work. get outta your small box of thought that its a black and white, is or type statement my guy.
*People are thinking about Ashes characters wrong.* *It's going to be more like a dice D&D character, as there are few limitations in direction or equipment.* *You could have two people wearing the exact same loadout, and only their Abilities are different.*
It shouldn't be like that, I mean I'm okay with classes wearing the equipment you want, but if certain skills requiere x weapons you shouldn't be allow to use that skill because you don't have that weapon. I don't like to use an ability and see in my hands a weapon that I don't have equiped and I know this is a magic world and actually they talk about summoning weapons but that's on summoner class or augments and if every one can do it then summoner lose part of his identity
I get why people want class identity. If you build a tank buster, it would be nice to know the player in full plate, carrying a shield, is a tank. But for me I think its more important and more fun if players are able to build their idea of the perfect character for themselves.
I'm okay with classes wearing the equipment you want, but if certain skills requiere x weapons you shouldn't be allow to use that skill because you don't have that weapon. I don't like to use an ability and see in my hands a weapon that I don't have equiped and I know this is a magic world and actually they talk about summoning weapons but that's on summoner class or augments and if every one can do it then summoner lose part of his identity
I just hope they implement dnd type features like how rogues are supposed to have bonus utility in dungeons ect. Make the class feel like a traditional rogue and not just the stealthy burst damage dealer. At one time i wanted to go with what im just going to call a min max summoner with a cloth armor ranged magic weapon, but now im really leaning on a heavy armor sword/mace/ax and shield summoner assuming it can work. Still be a summoner but also have that tank feeling with a unique class identity
the archetype i suspect will most likely just give you a 3rd talent tree (Weapon/Class/Archetype) Archetype tree will just alter your current class skills (Augment) and maybe add a couple unique skill to your archetype, Similiar to say WoW talent tree early on. Cleric/Fighter might alter base class cleric spell for a more melee/upfront playstyle so heals that go off dmging or close range of yourself compared to say clerir/cleric will be more traditional stand back healing
One thing I actually think NW got right was the classless system. You see a guy with heavy armor abd a shield, it doesn't need to guarantee he's a tank. DPS/Support with that look is a legitimate option. Once you see some animation, then that should be the giveaway.
Thank you for this great video. Honestly, I believe Intrepid has fundamentally messed with our conception of what a class is. The second part of your definition "that you would typically find for that class in other games" to me strongly hints at a stereotype. In a way it's the MMO-community's perception of the typical look, roles, abilities, and playstyles associated with that class. Between what I would traditionally understand as class identity and class stereotypes, Intrepid has introduced their own interpretation of class stereotypes as archetypes, using them as a foundation for building their classes. Class identity I'd traditionally define as the unique role and flavor designed by the game's developers to clearly distinguish each class within the game. Of course, this distinction between each class must stand up to community scrutiny, and I believe this is the main concern people have with having 64 classes. This contrasts with the high degree of customization given to players to create their own builds. While other developers might severely limit customization options to preserve class identity, Intrepid does not seem to follow that approach. For me, the issue with the 64 classes lies in defining where a build begins and where a class ends. I really think the "issue" of class customization goes beyond gear, and I'm personally fine with it, but I understand that not everyone is.
I'm not sure if this fits in, but I've focused more on niches. Not just being a Tank but HOW you are a Tank. Are you a great Tank for taking on thousands of enemies at once, or are you better at Tanking that one big boss by yourself? Are you a Rogue that focuses on that big hit that takes opponents down before they realize what happened, or do you want to silently spread DoTs across the opposing army? Or load up one enemy with extremely damaging debuffs? Not sure if this is the same thing as class identity but that's where I'd like to go.
If you think it's debatable that class identity MIGHT be more important than balance, then may god have mercy on your soul. Poor balance will 100% ruin a game, and make it unplayable. A lack of class identity sucks, but you can still have an awesome, fun game without class identity. There's absolutely no debate that balance is more important than class identity.
Played numerous games that are still popular today that have shit balance. I'm not sold on the idea that balance is really all that important to a lot of people.
@@Auld17 In UO, there were no classes to balance. Players built and balanced their characters for what they wanted to do, pvp, pve, both, it didn't matter. I think Ashes will give players enough options to do the same thing.
Hopefully the class icons will be enough to quickly identify what you're up against in PvP, if not it might just be one of those games that you need hundreds or thousands of hours in to know every possibility.
Class icon will tell you a little, but with augments and any weapon/any armor, there is no way you'll be able to really know which tools your opponent has. It will be a very reactionary game.
@Xillin yeah, and everyone is discussing pvp like it's always a one on one pvp arena. Intrepid have specifically said they will not be balancing the game based on 1v1 match ups. It's a social mmo where most content but especially the pvp is heavily dependent upon group play.
If I'm going to nit pick something I don't like it's the lack of distinguishing characteristics in the race models. When everyone's in armor, It's very hard to tell them apart. Complete opposite of the gold standard mmo I want it to replace.
I think Ashes is closer to achieving class identity than any modern mmo rpg. Its close to satisfying both class toolkits and personal class fantasy. Mmorpgs dont have balance anyway, never have. So striving for a strong identity in every way is by far the better focus.
TBH I like it when it’s hard to identify the enemy until they are engaged in battle. Thinking of the PvX landscape, you should think twice before trying to lay hands on another player… you might just be surprised. Think of a rouge who is like “this guy is wearing light armor he must be a mage, he’ll be easy to take down”… psych he’s a tank and you’ve just found yourself in an unwindable situation #FAFO
I don't like what you said about if you have a bow equipped as a fighter and use and ability it will magically appear the right weapong for that ability. I'm okay with classes wearing the equipment you want, but if certain skills requiere x weapons you shouldn't be allow to use that skill because you don't have that weapon. I don't like to use an ability and see in my hands a weapon that I don't have equiped and I know this is a magic world and actually they talk about summoning weapons but that's on summoner class or augments and if every one can do it then summoner lose part of his identity.
I like the idea of custom equipment loadouts, but where I see a big problem will be the Loot drop need/greed rolls, since everything will be available to every class then if your not with a fair minded pre made group I can see players needing on everything just because they 'can' use it rather than 'should they'?...
Wearing the inappropriate armour for your class will weaken the class actions won’t it… like a rogue with plate armour will be slow. Less stealthy? A tank with cloth armour…l well der. A mage in plate will lose dexterity and casting ability and likely mana or whatever your magic bar is called. Though maybe plate on a mage would inhibit these but also make it harder to break a cast,
@@Xillin I hope so. I really hope it isn’t a game you get in trouble from other players for not wearing the right gear or using the wrong spells. I’d love to see the roll play game aspect of the mmorpg embraced. I want a fun game not a second job.
This generation has a tendency to create problems, it is an option to use weapon x or armor y in your own character, the player can keep the look he wants for himself, other people's characters shouldn't be a problem for me, unless it is a ridiculous thing, like bikinis or other modern stuff like motorcycles, cars, speedboats etc
AoC alpha 2 is scheduled for Q3. It is Q3. There is no release date. So, alpha 2 is delayed? No, you just have to wait for Q3. But it is Q3. Should I just log in? No, it hasn't even been announced yet. So it's delayed? No. The announcement has just been delayed. Okay, but they announced it would be Q3. Yes. And it's Q3. Yes So it's delayed. No So I can try it now? No What? The announcement has been delayed. But they announced Q3! But they didn't announce that they would announce by Q3. So, how is the announcement delayed? Because they announced Q3. So it's delayed? Yes. I mean no. I mean... look over there! Aren't our servers shiny?
@Xillin yes it is. But it's what we've got, because they announced Q3, it is Q3, and they haven't even announced when they are going to announce a date.
Q3 is a range of time and not a specific dot in time. If they said "A2 after 180 days through the year." Then yeah. But Q3 is a range. If it hits Q4, then what you said applies.
@vexillian let me put it in a way that makes sense. If my friend came to dinner and announced to everyone that he is getting married next year in June, but then June 1st came around with no date set... how do I ask him why his wedding was delayed without him snapping at me with "is it July 1st yet?" Sure, he could elope at the last minute and meet the arbitrary deadline, but that doesn't change the fact that something went wrong with his wedding plans.
@joshuawyatt4737 You would just ask him "What day in June?" when June arrived. Same thing with Alpha 2. "What date within this quarter?" If your friend says "June 19th", then he didn't lie to you. It's not delayed. It's in June, the timeframe he said. If it hit July, THEN you could say "What's with the delay?"
Wait, any class can wear any armor or any weapon? After hearing that I'm really not interested in the game anymore. Tanks should be using heavy armour and do less damage. Thats the point of that class. You are not supposed to be able to do everything and thats where community and players come together.
But that's what they want. They will defend ''class identity'' over balance at all costs, but when they go to pvp they will cry for the immortal tank with ranged damage magic killing everyone without disadvantage. Get the popcorn 🤣🍿
Need a Guild for Alpha 2? Jump in my discord and and apply to be in Organized Chaos! discord.gg/wpANbdDUAE
Follow me over on Twitch for Ashes of Creations Streams: www.twitch.tv/xillin
dude your starting with arguabley the worst take by stating that the "does this class look, play, and feel how you would expect a class by its name and lore to look like?" as a null and void take that means nothing. firstly, ashes plans to have strong class identity in regards to the base classes lining up with that first defenition with the primary archtypes being the ones that determines what ULTIMATELY your class is with than augments are the latter defention where you than add the flavor to make it something unique with if i remember right, a planned average of around 40 abilites for each class with each ability being able to take on a single augment from the list of avalible primary, secondary, racial, and whatever other augment sources you have like node citizen or guild augments perhaps even as well as abilities offered from those same sorts of guild/node citizen type things to add to that massive list of abilites you can choose from esepecially when you consider that it seems the leveling system and ability selections works almost like warhammer 40k darktide where your given a certain number of points that, SURE you CAN get a full 20 abilites and i wouldnt be suprised if they expect like 10 to 20 abilites on average to be the norm BUT you can and perhaps would be better off selecting just 10 to maybe 15 abilites as you can invest extra points into already unlocked abilites to boost their strength further meaning that with the amount of spells to select from, even if they all are strong in their class identity, you can use the massive list of augments which dont change the abilites core function but aspects around how it inacts its function to truly make the latter defention of making each subclass look, play, and feel like you would expect it to work. get outta your small box of thought that its a black and white, is or type statement my guy.
That bear animation was elite
Making something like that in UE5 takes a long time. I poured hundreds of hours into it to make it that perfect.
@@XillinI'm glad that you are not working for intrepid, otherwise we will see alpha 2 in 2035 with that pace 😂
Xillin you freaking kill me man, at the beginning when you were hyping the animations you had 😂
I spent so much time on those man. High quality 4k UE5 animations take a long time to make!
Got my Surgery planned for September. I am trusting them to get me locked in with A2
That's using your head!
@@Xillin techniqually true!
*People are thinking about Ashes characters wrong.*
*It's going to be more like a dice D&D character, as there are few limitations in direction or equipment.*
*You could have two people wearing the exact same loadout, and only their Abilities are different.*
100%
It shouldn't be like that, I mean I'm okay with classes wearing the equipment you want, but if certain skills requiere x weapons you shouldn't be allow to use that skill because you don't have that weapon. I don't like to use an ability and see in my hands a weapon that I don't have equiped and I know this is a magic world and actually they talk about summoning weapons but that's on summoner class or augments and if every one can do it then summoner lose part of his identity
Well played, sir. Awesome animations.
*4k UE5 animations* get it right sir.
@@Xillin ain't no one got time for dat
I get why people want class identity. If you build a tank buster, it would be nice to know the player in full plate, carrying a shield, is a tank. But for me I think its more important and more fun if players are able to build their idea of the perfect character for themselves.
You're more of that 2nd definition type. Ashes I think will allow pretty much anyone to get damn close to their ideal build.
I'm okay with classes wearing the equipment you want, but if certain skills requiere x weapons you shouldn't be allow to use that skill because you don't have that weapon. I don't like to use an ability and see in my hands a weapon that I don't have equiped and I know this is a magic world and actually they talk about summoning weapons but that's on summoner class or augments and if every one can do it then summoner lose part of his identity
I just hope they implement dnd type features like how rogues are supposed to have bonus utility in dungeons ect. Make the class feel like a traditional rogue and not just the stealthy burst damage dealer.
At one time i wanted to go with what im just going to call a min max summoner with a cloth armor ranged magic weapon, but now im really leaning on a heavy armor sword/mace/ax and shield summoner assuming it can work. Still be a summoner but also have that tank feeling with a unique class identity
the archetype i suspect will most likely just give you a 3rd talent tree (Weapon/Class/Archetype) Archetype tree will just alter your current class skills (Augment) and maybe add a couple unique skill to your archetype, Similiar to say WoW talent tree early on.
Cleric/Fighter might alter base class cleric spell for a more melee/upfront playstyle so heals that go off dmging or close range of yourself compared to say clerir/cleric will be more traditional stand back healing
One thing I actually think NW got right was the classless system. You see a guy with heavy armor abd a shield, it doesn't need to guarantee he's a tank. DPS/Support with that look is a legitimate option. Once you see some animation, then that should be the giveaway.
Thank you for this great video.
Honestly, I believe Intrepid has fundamentally messed with our conception of what a class is.
The second part of your definition "that you would typically find for that class in other games" to me strongly hints at a stereotype. In a way it's the MMO-community's perception of the typical look, roles, abilities, and playstyles associated with that class.
Between what I would traditionally understand as class identity and class stereotypes, Intrepid has introduced their own interpretation of class stereotypes as archetypes, using them as a foundation for building their classes. Class identity I'd traditionally define as the unique role and flavor designed by the game's developers to clearly distinguish each class within the game. Of course, this distinction between each class must stand up to community scrutiny, and I believe this is the main concern people have with having 64 classes.
This contrasts with the high degree of customization given to players to create their own builds. While other developers might severely limit customization options to preserve class identity, Intrepid does not seem to follow that approach. For me, the issue with the 64 classes lies in defining where a build begins and where a class ends. I really think the "issue" of class customization goes beyond gear, and I'm personally fine with it, but I understand that not everyone is.
Whew, this opens up an even bigger can of worms....lol.
That's what we do around here, we open all the cans of all the worms.
I'm not sure if this fits in, but I've focused more on niches. Not just being a Tank but HOW you are a Tank. Are you a great Tank for taking on thousands of enemies at once, or are you better at Tanking that one big boss by yourself? Are you a Rogue that focuses on that big hit that takes opponents down before they realize what happened, or do you want to silently spread DoTs across the opposing army? Or load up one enemy with extremely damaging debuffs? Not sure if this is the same thing as class identity but that's where I'd like to go.
Love this.
If you think it's debatable that class identity MIGHT be more important than balance, then may god have mercy on your soul. Poor balance will 100% ruin a game, and make it unplayable. A lack of class identity sucks, but you can still have an awesome, fun game without class identity. There's absolutely no debate that balance is more important than class identity.
Played numerous games that are still popular today that have shit balance. I'm not sold on the idea that balance is really all that important to a lot of people.
@@Xillin It doesn't matter for carebears, but imbalance in PvP... forget it.
@@Auld17 In UO, there were no classes to balance. Players built and balanced their characters for what they wanted to do, pvp, pve, both, it didn't matter. I think Ashes will give players enough options to do the same thing.
@@krakhungames agreed 👍
The Rock, Paper, Scissors approach in classic wow works well. That's the balance promised. That's the balance we need.
Hopefully the class icons will be enough to quickly identify what you're up against in PvP, if not it might just be one of those games that you need hundreds or thousands of hours in to know every possibility.
Class icon will tell you a little, but with augments and any weapon/any armor, there is no way you'll be able to really know which tools your opponent has. It will be a very reactionary game.
@Xillin yeah, and everyone is discussing pvp like it's always a one on one pvp arena.
Intrepid have specifically said they will not be balancing the game based on 1v1 match ups. It's a social mmo where most content but especially the pvp is heavily dependent upon group play.
If I'm going to nit pick something I don't like it's the lack of distinguishing characteristics in the race models. When everyone's in armor, It's very hard to tell them apart. Complete opposite of the gold standard mmo I want it to replace.
I think Ashes is closer to achieving class identity than any modern mmo rpg.
Its close to satisfying both class toolkits and personal class fantasy.
Mmorpgs dont have balance anyway, never have. So striving for a strong identity in every way is by far the better focus.
Definitely
TBH I like it when it’s hard to identify the enemy until they are engaged in battle. Thinking of the PvX landscape, you should think twice before trying to lay hands on another player… you might just be surprised.
Think of a rouge who is like “this guy is wearing light armor he must be a mage, he’ll be easy to take down”… psych he’s a tank and you’ve just found yourself in an unwindable situation
#FAFO
I don't like what you said about if you have a bow equipped as a fighter and use and ability it will magically appear the right weapong for that ability. I'm okay with classes wearing the equipment you want, but if certain skills requiere x weapons you shouldn't be allow to use that skill because you don't have that weapon. I don't like to use an ability and see in my hands a weapon that I don't have equiped and I know this is a magic world and actually they talk about summoning weapons but that's on summoner class or augments and if every one can do it then summoner lose part of his identity.
I like the idea of custom equipment loadouts, but where I see a big problem will be the Loot drop need/greed rolls, since everything will be available to every class then if your not with a fair minded pre made group I can see players needing on everything just because they 'can' use it rather than 'should they'?...
Wearing the inappropriate armour for your class will weaken the class actions won’t it… like a rogue with plate armour will be slow. Less stealthy? A tank with cloth armour…l well der. A mage in plate will lose dexterity and casting ability and likely mana or whatever your magic bar is called. Though maybe plate on a mage would inhibit these but also make it harder to break a cast,
There will absolutely be benefits and drawbacks to wearing various armor types. People will find weird combinations that do all types of things.
@@Xillin I hope so. I really hope it isn’t a game you get in trouble from other players for not wearing the right gear or using the wrong spells. I’d love to see the roll play game aspect of the mmorpg embraced. I want a fun game not a second job.
For the xillage
!!!
Comment for the Comments Section! Hype!
Alpha 2 is 100% dropping in September. Anything before that is cope.
Pretty much!
This generation has a tendency to create problems, it is an option to use weapon x or armor y in your own character, the player can keep the look he wants for himself, other people's characters shouldn't be a problem for me, unless it is a ridiculous thing, like bikinis or other modern stuff like motorcycles, cars, speedboats etc
Yep, said this in the video. If you wanna make a wonky character, have at it.
Mouse click=Algorithm count
Class identity is Vastly superior to balance.
Ah so rift neat.
AoC alpha 2 is scheduled for Q3.
It is Q3.
There is no release date.
So, alpha 2 is delayed?
No, you just have to wait for Q3.
But it is Q3. Should I just log in?
No, it hasn't even been announced yet.
So it's delayed?
No. The announcement has just been delayed.
Okay, but they announced it would be Q3.
Yes.
And it's Q3.
Yes
So it's delayed.
No
So I can try it now?
No
What?
The announcement has been delayed.
But they announced Q3!
But they didn't announce that they would announce by Q3.
So, how is the announcement delayed?
Because they announced Q3.
So it's delayed?
Yes. I mean no. I mean... look over there! Aren't our servers shiny?
This is pure unmitigated nonsense.
@Xillin yes it is. But it's what we've got, because they announced Q3, it is Q3, and they haven't even announced when they are going to announce a date.
Q3 is a range of time and not a specific dot in time. If they said "A2 after 180 days through the year." Then yeah. But Q3 is a range. If it hits Q4, then what you said applies.
@vexillian let me put it in a way that makes sense.
If my friend came to dinner and announced to everyone that he is getting married next year in June, but then June 1st came around with no date set... how do I ask him why his wedding was delayed without him snapping at me with "is it July 1st yet?"
Sure, he could elope at the last minute and meet the arbitrary deadline, but that doesn't change the fact that something went wrong with his wedding plans.
@joshuawyatt4737 You would just ask him "What day in June?" when June arrived. Same thing with Alpha 2. "What date within this quarter?" If your friend says "June 19th", then he didn't lie to you. It's not delayed. It's in June, the timeframe he said. If it hit July, THEN you could say "What's with the delay?"
Wait, any class can wear any armor or any weapon? After hearing that I'm really not interested in the game anymore. Tanks should be using heavy armour and do less damage. Thats the point of that class. You are not supposed to be able to do everything and thats where community and players come together.
But that's what they want. They will defend ''class identity'' over balance at all costs, but when they go to pvp they will cry for the immortal tank with ranged damage magic killing everyone without disadvantage. Get the popcorn 🤣🍿