Russians generally do engineering very well, based on the principle of keeping things simple and capable of being fixed when there is no-one out there to help. When it goes wrong, there is usually politics behind it.
When considering the 10, 12, and 14 coupled locomotives to modern designs, remember that wheel slip detection technology did not exist. The general idea was to put as much of the engine weight on the drivers as possible, and use pilot and trailing wheels to help the locomotive enter curves, and limit axle weight, although the extra drivers helped there too. A 14 coupled locomotive was simply too long for most existing rail lines in the Soviet Union.
Funny that this locomotive was ever built. They ordered the largest ever Beyer Garrett around the same time, which was never heard of after it was delivered. The Garratts were generally successful.
@@torquetrain8963 the GN 2-6-8-0s were decent locomotives but when they go over 25 miles an hour they are known to shake pretty badly. So bad that one crewman put it “I couldn’t even keep my shoe laces tied”.
At 85% cutoff, the locomotive would have had 88,314 pounds of tractive effort. However, I take it that the Soviets would have measured the AA-20's power at 69%, hence the 71,490 pounds of tractive effort. Her tractive effort at 85% cutoff would be somewhere between that of a Southern Pacific 4-10-2, which has 86,590 pounds of tractive effort minus the booster, and a Chesapeake & Ohio T-1, which had 91,584 pounds minus the booster.
as a book i have on trains stated, "an articulated design was really needed for more than 10 driving wheels" 12 wheel would be pushing the limits, but 14? thats a no go straight from the start
I was lead by the wrong man at the time hence why I made such an idiotic conclusion. I do believe now they were awesome and deserve to not only be brought back but also tested to their absolute limits.
The Russian RR used lots 'O drivers because they used cheap iron rails and widely spaced ties on the TransSiberian Ry. Take for instance the Frisco (etc.) 2-10-0s to do the work of a 2-8-0. The Frisco bought the embargoed Russian engines. The 4-14-4 was probably an attempt at providing a large engine to run on brittle frozen iron rails.
I don't understand why they didn't turn it into an articulated. They not only made a locomotive with two sets of six drivers, but they also made the 2 P38s, which were yellowstones
One solution used on the UK 9F 2-10-0 was for the central axle wheels to have no flanges.so the wheel was still load bearing in the vertical. For a #-12-# it may require the middle two axles to be flangeless and a $-14-$ the middle 3 axles. The wheel tyre width may need to be wider to stay on track. All dependent on track geometry and condition, design loading , axle rigidity and suspension detail.
I have to add something on the tractive effort subject. You stated that the boiler was undersized, but boiler size has nothing to do with the maximum tractive effort a locomotive can develop. Main parameters are cylinder bore, stroke and wheel diameter, as well as max boiler pressure. The boiler size determines how well a locomotive can maintain tractive effort trough a range of speeds so to say, this is known as power output, the amount of horses a locomotive can develop. Power output on a steam loco can vary quite a bit depending on the quality of coal and how well the fireman/stoker does his job, even on a loco with mechanical stoker. On the AA-20 not the overall size of the boiler would have been the problem, but its design, it didn't have a combustion chamber in front of the grate and boiler tubes that were too long, features which the 9000 class had. But said this, the tractive effort of the AA20 was disappointing. A German Br44 2-10-0 which operates at a similar boiler pressure and has an axle load of 21 tons can develop 340kN (76,400lbf) of tractive effort, but this too is a 3 cylinder engine.
Yeah, I was still just phasing out of the semi-expert side at that time. I have developed better expertise on this stuff since then. I'm sure my college education will further improve it once I enter my major.
That's insane dude, 😰😰😰 I never seen anything like it and I even said that there's no way there could be an engine with more than 12 drive wheels. I guess I thought wrong
The one difference I have with the video is that I personally WOULD LOVE to build an AA20/4-14-4 in lego. It'd be worthless because lego's track curves are *far* too tight but it'd be a cool looking model :)
I love 9000 saying lol on the thumbnail. it's been my favorite locomotive for about a before watching this. 8:39 Also nice know the 9000 class isn't as bad as I thought.
Comparing tractive effort of locomotives with vastly different adhesive weights is kind of unfair. AA70 had 20ton axle load, while 9000s were scratching 30tons per axle - if I recall correctly. 320kN at 20 tons per axle gives it factor of adhesion of 4.37, which is bloody good for a steam locomotive. That being said - AA20 was a 'publicity stunt' of the russia stronk variety. USSR never needed such a beast, so, since it was a failure, it was just sidelined and scrapped. You could probably make this beast work, but there really was no reason to do so.
This. Is. FANTASTIC! Very good comparison of the technical aspects of this locomotive to the 9000s and other American Steam locomotive. The narration and background music also makes this episode great! I made a similar video on this engine a few months ago for my own locomotive documentary series, Remarkable Engines, but it focuses a bit more on the Russian side of the story. (Also sad to hear that rebuilding a PRR S1 wouldn't be practical, but that's besides the point.) Bravo! Just subscribed!
The aa-20-1 4-14-4 could be a really neat display lego locomotive honestly instead of building a lego running version. Just a thought of mine Also am I the only one who wished the aa20 was preserved
There isn't even a db 59 preserved. Of this 2-12-0s were 44 locos built. It's amazig, that the russian never build a locomotive with 12 tractive wheels in a single frahme.
The other main failure was the poor state of track...Rails too light, poor ballasting, poor rail attachment to cross-ties. Unable to support Axle load and lateral motion on even large curves.
May I ask what’s the boiler diameter, width length and height of the steam locomotive because I think I might build it in lego that could (possibly) run
Didn't Russia make something similar to Challenger or Big Boy, but only 3-4 were ever built? At least it had flexibility. Also European track are slightly more narrow and won't handle the weight of American locomotives?
I’ve always thought a better wheel arrangement classification for instance for this loco would be 2-H-2, 9000 would be 2-G-2 and Big Boy 2-D-2-2-D-2 etc, much simpler.🇦🇺
Probably the most widely built ill-considered locomotives were the Atlantic's, not powerful enough for the new steel passengers cars, poor braking power, and if built with 80' drivers, way too fast for existing track structure, or schedules. But they did fit on existing turntables and in existing roundhouses. And who wanted to build a more logical Pacific and tell the board of directors all those would have to be replaced? 🤓
aa20-1 's footage I can find: ruclips.net/video/6l68GhXchZw/видео.html didn't thank me instead a youtuber called : @UCTXPL5uOGhq64P7AOeFamDw but in russian.
Sth. that made me laugh hysterically😆: The AA20 only has 3,652 horsepower (2,723 kW) as well!😂 WHAT?!🤣 (Hope you pin this for info XD!😆 I'm laughing SO hard!😂🤣😄)🤪
4:20 Other European countries uses this classification system too. A fine work of Andre Chapelon , the A2 is referred to as 2-4-2 which actually 4-8-4 (and it is a REAL Northern since it was made as tender locomotive) in Whyte notation.
@@TheT-90thatstaresintoyoursoul It’s the largest rigid frame steam locomotive in Europe but not in the world, that would be the Pennsylvania Railroad S1
You mentioned nobody ever building a full-scale replica of the PRR S-1, but they are doing the next worst thing: building a full-scale replica of the PRR T-1.
T1 were not slippery -- that was a lie !!! The idea of the T1 was for 1 T1 to do the job of 2 K4 Pacific's double heading ---- WHICH MENT CREW LAYOFFS ----- The 2 originals were tested in the test plant and found that they produced 6500 hp. under load which was the equivalent of 800 trailing tons at 100 mph . The T1 had 2 throttle controls , that's what a duplex is ((( A throttle for each set of drivers ))) ______ To fight against layoffs of engine crews , What the engineers did was when it was safe , they'd pull back the FRONT THROTTLE HANDLE and a severe ((( FRONT ENGINE SLIP )) would happen ---- NEVER A REAR ENGINE SLIP NEAR THE CAB . They didn't want parts of the side rods doing what they called (( swiping the cab )) something that could happen with all the camel back locomotives on the JERSEY CENTRAL ,and their engine crews HATED THEM POTENTIAL KILLERS ... Sidelining a T1 in the shop for repairs , and thus put back into service double headed K4's and nobody got laid off ...
@@robertswickard8355 I don't know about engine crew malfeasance -- I can't rule it out, but that sounds like the kind of thing that railroad bosses would make up -- but concentrating all that power into just 4 drivers that are separated into 2 pairs but still on a rigid frame, while putting just under half of the locomotive's weight on unpowered axles, is a recipe for trouble.
Simple. I was a noob at this at the time and my MIC sucked. I’ve corrected such issues in my newer videos(2022-present) 2020-2021 was a bit of a turbulent time for me
Russian engineering is when you make a racecar for the road but you dont have roads.
Russians generally do engineering very well, based on the principle of keeping things simple and capable of being fixed when there is no-one out there to help. When it goes wrong, there is usually politics behind it.
69th like **Dab**
Everyone else uses moderate to calming music for their background , this guy uses boss music. It's an interesting experience.
Yes I Did
Atleast, I used to……
When considering the 10, 12, and 14 coupled locomotives to modern designs, remember that wheel slip detection technology did not exist. The general idea was to put as much of the engine weight on the drivers as possible, and use pilot and trailing wheels to help the locomotive enter curves, and limit axle weight, although the extra drivers helped there too. A 14 coupled locomotive was simply too long for most existing rail lines in the Soviet Union.
Funny that this locomotive was ever built. They ordered the largest ever Beyer Garrett around the same time, which was never heard of after it was delivered. The Garratts were generally successful.
9000 & 9029 is big
1218????
1218????
@@olayinkafadipe2565 Class Яа
If i'd built a steam loco with 14 driving wheels, it will be a 4-8-6-4
Why would you put the eight-coupled wheelset on the front? The resonances and forces on the flanges would be awful with that arrangement.
Denver & Salt Lake built several successful 2-6-8-0 wheel-based locos
@@ThomasWLalor as well as the Great Northern.
@@torquetrain8963 the GN 2-6-8-0s were decent locomotives but when they go over 25 miles an hour they are known to shake pretty badly. So bad that one crewman put it “I couldn’t even keep my shoe laces tied”.
And that’s why Britain and America had a driving wheel limit on steam locomotives.
Thank good ness you made a new intro for episode 3, just shows how far you’ve gotten better at making these videos
At 85% cutoff, the locomotive would have had 88,314 pounds of tractive effort. However, I take it that the Soviets would have measured the AA-20's power at 69%, hence the 71,490 pounds of tractive effort. Her tractive effort at 85% cutoff would be somewhere between that of a Southern Pacific 4-10-2, which has 86,590 pounds of tractive effort minus the booster, and a Chesapeake & Ohio T-1, which had 91,584 pounds minus the booster.
Well, thanks for the info! I'm very new to Russian steam locomotives
@@AndrewTheRocketCityRailfan4014 what if aa20 managed to outperformed 9000 and all type of locomotive
And maybe one day, we'll see 9000 restored for excursions in 2029 for the golden spike at the completion of the transcontinental railroad in 1869
as a book i have on trains stated, "an articulated design was really needed for more than 10 driving wheels" 12 wheel would be pushing the limits, but 14? thats a no go straight from the start
The Prr T1 was not a failure. It was tested on the N&W and C&O and their crews love it !!!
I was lead by the wrong man at the time hence why I made such an idiotic conclusion. I do believe now they were awesome and deserve to not only be brought back but also tested to their absolute limits.
The Russian RR used lots 'O drivers because they used cheap iron rails and widely spaced ties on the TransSiberian Ry. Take for instance the Frisco (etc.)
2-10-0s to do the work of a 2-8-0. The Frisco bought the embargoed Russian engines. The 4-14-4 was probably an attempt at providing a large engine to run on brittle frozen iron rails.
Some Railroad company: let's make a 14 driving wheel engine. (Learns about the AA20) uh never mind.
Here, in Indonesia, we have a crazy-looking F10 Locomotive. it was a 2-12-2T tank engine!
You did not mention that the 9000s had three cylinders, which certainly contributed to their higher reactive effort compared to the AA20.
The early ones did yes but they removed them because they were a maintenance nightmare. Still had very high tractive effort.
even if the locomotive was a complete failure, it should have been preserved as a piece of Railway History.
I don't understand why they didn't turn it into an articulated. They not only made a locomotive with two sets of six drivers, but they also made the 2 P38s, which were yellowstones
If it didn’t have Cyrillic lettering on the smoke box door, I’d think it was another Union Pacific stunt. 😏
One solution used on the UK 9F 2-10-0 was for the central axle wheels to have no flanges.so the wheel was still load bearing in the vertical. For a #-12-# it may require the middle two axles to be flangeless and a $-14-$ the middle 3 axles. The wheel tyre width may need to be wider to stay on track. All dependent on track geometry and condition, design loading , axle rigidity and suspension detail.
He did say that only the leading and trailing end drivers were flanged on the AA-20, the other 10 drivers didn’t have any flanges
This is amazing
Yes it is
I have to add something on the tractive effort subject.
You stated that the boiler was undersized, but boiler size has nothing to do with the maximum tractive effort a locomotive can develop.
Main parameters are cylinder bore, stroke and wheel diameter, as well as max boiler pressure.
The boiler size determines how well a locomotive can maintain tractive effort trough a range of speeds so to say, this is known as power output, the amount of horses a locomotive can develop.
Power output on a steam loco can vary quite a bit depending on the quality of coal and how well the fireman/stoker does his job, even on a loco with mechanical stoker.
On the AA-20 not the overall size of the boiler would have been the problem, but its design, it didn't have a combustion chamber in front of the grate and boiler tubes that were too long, features which the 9000 class had.
But said this, the tractive effort of the AA20 was disappointing.
A German Br44 2-10-0 which operates at a similar boiler pressure and has an axle load of 21 tons can develop 340kN (76,400lbf) of tractive effort, but this too is a 3 cylinder engine.
Yeah, I was still just phasing out of the semi-expert side at that time. I have developed better expertise on this stuff since then. I'm sure my college education will further improve it once I enter my major.
What a crazy steam locomotive design.
That's insane dude, 😰😰😰 I never seen anything like it and I even said that there's no way there could be an engine with more than 12 drive wheels. I guess I thought wrong
9000 is the only surviving 4-12-2 steam locomotive in the world
The 9000 is also one of the few 3 cylinder American locomotives that I know of
Comrad. (HITD joke.)
It would habe worked in the states... With a bigger firebox.
The one difference I have with the video is that I personally WOULD LOVE to build an AA20/4-14-4 in lego. It'd be worthless because lego's track curves are *far* too tight but it'd be a cool looking model :)
i was thinking about an engine with 20 connected drive wheels thats somewhat bigger than this engine in my head itself...
Adolph Giesl-Gieslingen has written a book about 6 and 7- coupled locos. In the chapter of the AA20 stands that this Monster had no
Sorry, no rigid wheel base. That is the reason for derailments.
There is the ATSF 5011 2-10-4s that can produce more tractive effort then the 9000s.
The French also use the axle counting system as well.
Do you still think that background music was a good idea?
I love 9000 saying lol on the thumbnail. it's been my favorite locomotive for about a before watching this.
8:39 Also nice know the 9000 class isn't as bad as I thought.
Atleast we have 9000
Did I hear him say “worser”? I did…”worser than the 9000’s”. SMH
Honestly, it looks really cool. I thing making it articulated would have made it much better.
will you do the PRR Q1 sometime?
Comparing tractive effort of locomotives with vastly different adhesive weights is kind of unfair. AA70 had 20ton axle load, while 9000s were scratching 30tons per axle - if I recall correctly. 320kN at 20 tons per axle gives it factor of adhesion of 4.37, which is bloody good for a steam locomotive.
That being said - AA20 was a 'publicity stunt' of the russia stronk variety. USSR never needed such a beast, so, since it was a failure, it was just sidelined and scrapped. You could probably make this beast work, but there really was no reason to do so.
Awesome video of roasting the AA-20
The AAHAPEEB sign on the AA-20 makes my brother laugh when he says it
Андреев.
I will built a replica of the s1, butt this time, it will be fitted with a articulated frame, and ad more whait on the driving wheels, and less wheels
Why can’t you just make the music quieter your already editing the photos in order for your video
This. Is. FANTASTIC! Very good comparison of the technical aspects of this locomotive to the 9000s and other American Steam locomotive. The narration and background music also makes this episode great! I made a similar video on this engine a few months ago for my own locomotive documentary series, Remarkable Engines, but it focuses a bit more on the Russian side of the story. (Also sad to hear that rebuilding a PRR S1 wouldn't be practical, but that's besides the point.) Bravo! Just subscribed!
I would like a better balance between the narration and music.
In America train moves on track, but in Soviet Russia train moves track
Thank you from Wales UK, that was very interesting. (newly subscribed) 👍
Chat, is a 2-10-6 freight tank engine a good idea
I think you could have made the music at the beginning a little louder
The aa-20-1 4-14-4 could be a really neat display lego locomotive honestly instead of building a lego running version.
Just a thought of mine
Also am I the only one who wished the aa20 was preserved
There isn't even a db 59 preserved. Of this 2-12-0s were 44 locos built.
It's amazig, that the russian never build a locomotive with 12 tractive wheels in a single frahme.
The other main failure was the poor state of track...Rails too light, poor ballasting, poor rail attachment to cross-ties. Unable to support Axle load and lateral motion on even large curves.
Good video, background music is too damn loud at the beginning
Ill make a 4-10-10-4 wheeled Articulated Steam locomotive but I wish to know what itll look like and how itll function and tests
you know your locomotives bad when locomotives with less boiler presure and firebox area are out hauling it
Wait have you built Pere marquett 1225 out of Lego
Приятно видеть как англоязычный канал разбирает советские паровозы.
👍
May I ask what’s the boiler diameter, width length and height of the steam locomotive because I think I might build it in lego that could (possibly) run
Didn't Russia make something similar to Challenger or Big Boy, but only 3-4 were ever built? At least it had flexibility. Also European track are slightly more narrow and won't handle the weight of American locomotives?
If you can make the background music a little bit loader that would be great, I almost couldn’t here it playing.
Well researched, thanks.
8:27 PRR built this one for passenger train service as an answer to NYC streamlined Hudsons.
and it failed
I’ve always thought a better wheel arrangement classification for instance for this loco would be 2-H-2, 9000 would be 2-G-2 and Big Boy 2-D-2-2-D-2 etc, much simpler.🇦🇺
I have always wondered about this locomotive. Al i ever saw of it was an obscure photo of it I think it was Trains magazine.
WAITR GERMANY?! We have 2-12-4's?! (No seriously reply. I never saw these.)
1:41 the music actually suits the picture of Union pacific 9029
could you do fowlers ghost for the next DOA episode
Build the museum where the giant train is displayed and build it out of Legos and put it on display
But I am making this AA-20 Locomotive with lego blocks ha ha ha ha lol
Really are you 😃
@@FazbearEntertainment414 yes I am making right now ok
Ok make a video about it when it’s done and make a video on how to build the AA 20 ok
@@FazbearEntertainment414 ha I am making video about AA-20 LOCOMOTIVE with lego blocks in you tube
Probably the most widely built ill-considered locomotives were the Atlantic's, not powerful enough for the new steel passengers cars, poor braking power, and if built with 80' drivers, way too fast for existing track structure, or schedules. But they did fit on existing turntables and in existing roundhouses. And who wanted to build a more logical Pacific and tell the board of directors all those would have to be replaced? 🤓
Im a bit confused ik the big boy is a 4 8 8 4 but that means in total of driving wheels they have 16 yet they work great but the AA20 dosent work
Unlike the AA20s, the Big Boys were designed to work in specific areas and can easily navigate tight curves.
aa20-1 's footage I can find: ruclips.net/video/6l68GhXchZw/видео.html
didn't thank me instead a youtuber called : @UCTXPL5uOGhq64P7AOeFamDw
but in russian.
Sth. that made me laugh hysterically😆: The AA20 only has 3,652 horsepower (2,723 kW) as well!😂 WHAT?!🤣
(Hope you pin this for info XD!😆 I'm laughing SO hard!😂🤣😄)🤪
good lord do we need the Darth Vader death Star music and so loud! Its only railways!
There is a 4-10-10-4 &
2-5-5-2 steam locomotive in USA at 1800s
There was plans for a second AA20 but as you said it was so unsuccessful it never happened
0-14-0 Locomotive Exist?
I hope not
@@Dr.Disney Why Does?
I’ll build a 4-24-24-24-24-24-4 locomotive.
4:09 This Locomotive Looks Like 4-8-6-4
4:20 Other European countries uses this classification system too. A fine work of Andre Chapelon , the A2 is referred to as 2-4-2 which actually 4-8-4 (and it is a REAL Northern since it was made as tender locomotive) in Whyte notation.
Up 9000 : you been troll you been troll yes proboly been told
Bro. I love your stuff but would you just strait up like some help with editing your videos audio. It's all over the place
So the AA-20 holds the world record for the second largest rigid frame locomotive in the world
No, its the largest non-articulated engine.
It was longer than the 9000 class and had more wheels.
@@TheT-90thatstaresintoyoursoul It’s the largest rigid frame steam locomotive in Europe but not in the world, that would be the Pennsylvania Railroad S1
I bet the designers of this locomotive were executed after this considering that this is Stalinist-era USSR.
You mentioned nobody ever building a full-scale replica of the PRR S-1, but they are doing the next worst thing: building a full-scale replica of the PRR T-1.
T1 were not slippery -- that was a lie !!!
The idea of the T1 was for 1 T1 to do the job of 2 K4 Pacific's double heading ----
WHICH MENT CREW LAYOFFS -----
The 2 originals were tested in the test plant and found that they produced 6500 hp. under load which was the equivalent of 800 trailing tons at 100 mph .
The T1 had 2 throttle controls , that's what a duplex is ((( A throttle for each set of drivers ))) ______
To fight against layoffs of engine crews , What the engineers did was when it was safe , they'd pull back the FRONT THROTTLE HANDLE and a severe ((( FRONT ENGINE SLIP )) would happen ---- NEVER A REAR ENGINE SLIP NEAR THE CAB .
They didn't want parts of the side rods doing what they called (( swiping the cab )) something that could happen with all the camel back locomotives on the JERSEY CENTRAL ,and their engine crews HATED THEM POTENTIAL KILLERS ...
Sidelining a T1 in the shop for repairs , and thus put back into service double headed K4's and nobody got laid off ...
@@robertswickard8355 I don't know about engine crew malfeasance -- I can't rule it out, but that sounds like the kind of thing that railroad bosses would make up -- but concentrating all that power into just 4 drivers that are separated into 2 pairs but still on a rigid frame, while putting just under half of the locomotive's weight on unpowered axles, is a recipe for trouble.
I feel you are being too harsh I mean its not the locomotives fault the designers had the worst idea ever
Why is the music so loud I can barely hear you
Look Russia points for effort but maybe leave the big locomotives to the US
Why music to drown out your breathing? Does your breathing sound like a steam locomotive?
Simple. I was a noob at this at the time and my MIC sucked. I’ve corrected such issues in my newer videos(2022-present) 2020-2021 was a bit of a turbulent time for me
I would have liked to watch the whole movie but the music was to loud and bad.
Yeah... I'll remake it at some point in the future
The Soviet Big Boy.
No, that is the P38. A 2-8-8-4 with 16 wheel Tender.
Like defenitivelly
Holy shit i can't even hear you man good video but the music is way louder than your speaking
I missed the „IGOR“ xD
And I like
the AA-20 Locomotive that I am making AA-20 Locomotive with lego blocks ok ha ha ha ha lol
Da, comrade, bigger is better...well, maybe nyet.
For Modern day European standard Railvehicle axle formula it would be a
2' G 2' + 3' 3'
Music is too loud to understand you. Then the volume is too low.
USSR should See the Bigboys and Watch Sad Story of Henery and We Are showing Troll faces to USSR
Also if l bulid 6-4-2 locomotive
BUILT THE AA20 WITH LEGO
here's an idea....if you can't control the background music then get rid of it so we can hear you.😀
Oh no problem, says me from the future.
why not build it out of cloth