Apprenticeship questions and Answers for Carpentry and Joinery in association with IronmongeryDirect
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2024
- My Hinge jigs are available now in either 76mm or 102mm available now at my website www.robc.co.uk
I am working alongside IronmongeryDirect to highlight the importance of apprenticeships in the UK Construction Industry
We all need to play our part in making sure that the workforce maintains good skill levels and standards, I am super proud to be working with IronmongeryDirect and I would personally like to commend them for their campaign on this topic
Ironmongery is also running a competition to win £5000 towards hiring an apprentice go to the link here
www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/b...
Please use the comments section to tell us about your experiences of being an Apprentice or indeed hiring an Apprentice
My Amazon store for all kinds of products
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I got a huge amount of satisfaction teaching my apprentice, the best part was watching him develop his own methods different to mine. We ended up working together as a pair of carpenters , he loved the first fix and roofs, I preferred the second fix and kitchens.
Best thing I ever did and the best thing young people can do is a craft apprenticeship, whatever the trade
I'm 47 if I could do it all again I'd be a carpenter...I subscribed to your channel a year ago and your work just made me fall in love with the trade, in school I did metal work. Both my young sons watch your channel and both want to follow in your footsteps so I'd just like to thank you for helping them develop their skills....seening it done properly has made there choice very easy....thank you
Back in the 80's, school teachers (ok, it was a grammer school) had this attitude that any idiot could get a trade. Clever boys needed to go to university. Thank God no-one thought I was clever!
I think now we need posters in schools saying "any twit can play on a computer, and they do. Be in demand- be a chippie", or "building trades can't be outsourced to a call centre in Karachi"
I think apprenticeships should be allowed to older people, 35ish & upwards because when your young you don’t really care. When you’ve lived a wee bit & got some skills behind you, I think you are willing to listen to other people & just learn from them.
Im around that age myself and i know for a fact i would pay more attention now than i would when i left school. Wished had done an apprenticeship in a trade when left school really regret it
Totally agree with this. 👍
In my mid thirties, worked normal jobs since my teenage years, been thinking about an apprenticeship lately and made some enquiries, and (in Ireland at least) I've been getting good feedback regarding my age profile. Seems that most employers would appreciate the maturity, work ethic and life experience you'd be bringing compared to a bloke fresh our of school (not to take away from those lads some of them are great)
@@anomandaris2010 good luck mate hope it works out for you. I was meant to do level 2 carpentry two days a week but i stopped it due to covid might look again next september i think as training was going to be via zoom most of time
@@offcuts4146 cheers man same to you, the last 12 month's has made a balls of everything, hope it pans out for you 👍
This is one of those videos where RUclips needs a love more than a like Robin. Shared on LinkedIn and Facebook.
I agree 100% with everything you said. As I have said before I didn't go to college for carpentry but just did five years on site. The college side gives you the more technical aspects like you and your roofing square etc but you also need the on-site training. I will add one recent example I have come across. A work colleague of mine has a son that wanted to be a sparky. He asked every electrician in his area if he could do work for them for free and he got a bite. He kept going got better and more useful and the guy has now signed him up as an official apprentice. His Dad is chuffed. He wanted it enough and persistence paid off.
Finished my apprenticeship about 2 years ago love the content on this channel helps a lot robin is definitely a master carpenter
Excellent. Apprenticeships are the backbone of the trades, and maintaining quality workmanship. Thank you for making this, it’s totally correct what you have said. There are many schemes available for those looking for work. Do some research, change somebody’s life for the better, and grow the reputation of your own business along the way.
Great shout Robin at long last someone demonstrating the importance of an apprenticeship equals good standards for the future, well done !!
Robin Clevett, Massive thanks, Your contribution to the industry is invaluable.
My grandad always said that an apprenticeship should be served under an number of tradesmen to get the best possible grasp of your trade. And that's also true as your career progresses changing who you work alongside everynow and then. Leaves you constantly learning new and improved ways. As guys can get stuck in a rut. It's Sound advice I pass on to my apprentices.
Best thing I ever did was get a trade. I don’t use it directly but despite changing career many times I have always got work of a decent standard only due to either being directly qualified as an electrician or due to skills learned doing jobs only gained because of the above. Good for those that hate studying relentlessly from books but also for those that do learn that way. I started off not knowing what a clip was and being completely unpractical and now could almost build and fit out a house on my own!
super wonderful vid Robin ... this is an excellent gift to all the viewers of your channel that have been inspired by the projects you have demonstrated and to those that want this as a career
Thanks Thor, I really appreciate your comments mate.
I’m a apprentice joiner currently and the interview process is so difficult. They had 1,000 applicants for the job I’ve got and only 20 were chosen and slowly whittles down to final interviews and then when I was offered it there was one more hurdle. A unpaid 2 week trial. If someone fails the interview process before they even get to that point they’re likely not to want to do that all over again plus the interviews aren’t realistic. I spent 2 years trying to be a heating engineer as I actually went to college and got my level 3 plumbing and heating but no one would take me on as I’ve already done the course so I couldn’t be an apprentice but I didn’t have experience so no one would take me on as a plumbers mate. 🤷🏼♂️
Some of the other apprentices in my college group just aren’t interested and they’re the ones getting the roles ahead of others who are more suitable because they appear more confident in interviews. It’s stupid.
Every company has its own method of recruitment - that not the responsibility of the apprenticeship system. One of the problems is that FE Colleges are providing trade courses without the need for an apprenticeship. This ignores that there is a huge part of the training which is missing which you would get from being signed as an apprentice - the on-the-job experience and recognition.
Great video Robin. There's loads of young people activity trying to secure an appentiship in our industry. Personally, I think the government could, and should, be doing a lot more to motivate the bigger construction companies into training those that are willing to learn. Let's hope the skills and knowledge of our generation are not lost.
Hi Robin,,, Great to see your endorsing apprenticeships,,, Im a big believer in proper time served tradesmen,,, These are the type of guys that can get you out of a fix,,, and they usually more conscientious. A Bit Like You Robin.
Worst thing I ever did when I left school in 86 was to listen to my heart and go into the motortrade when my head was telling me do an apprenticeship and become a joiner/carpenter like my dad was, I excelled I woodwork at school - top of the class but the careers service/advice was non exsistent and I just fell into a YTS broad based motor vehicle course, thats one regret I hold to this day. At 22 I was out of the motortrade and got myself onto a 2 year C&G basic joinery course run by the local council 1 day a week in their workshop and 4 days on site(council housing/voids), loved it and it got me onto bigger and better jobs bit it still pains me that I'm far from a time served chippie - never will be. I still tinker with wood, fitted a few of my own kitchens, swung doors for friends, fitted countless windows but with a few health issues just taking it easy. Robin your a top man, apprentiships are the way, I bang the same drum as you whenever I get chance
If only we could live our life through hindsight. Sounds to me you’ve done a job you were proud and happy doing - not many can say that!
To the 2 thumbs down prat’s what have you done or are doing to help young people I’d say absolutely nothing probably didn’t even watch the video.Robin it’s absolutely brilliant to watch your videos and to see the skills that you pass on.
This was meant for the guy who mentioned mentors.
I had the best apprenticeship ever working every day with a guy who went over and above teaching me the stuff on the curriculum and much more because he could see I was interested.
Twenty odd years later I love working with apprentices, when I get one who's dead keen I'll go above and beyond too. And so it goes on, I'd like to think.
ya give what ya get
Not sure what an apprenticeship is in todays world but 53 years ago I had a full 5 yrs to serve. One year college full time , Three years one day release 4 days on site and last year journeyman. In later life I worked for a training scheme Employment Training (E.T.) which in the youth of today meant 'extra tenner' Dole Wallers sent out to what was in effect earn their benefits. The concept was that if those who could pick up enough skill and show promise in terms of responsibility and time keeping etc, we would promote them to companies in the hope they may take them on for a trial. Most were uninterested and difficult, if not impossible to work with. we were lucky if 1 out of 30 came through and actually got a chance apprenticeship. On another note The college instructors now (I am told) are academics not actually tradesmen, so principles & theory are taught but it takes a real trades person to finish the job so its probably still the same principle as our scheme all those years ago. One thing is sure, we need many more trades people than we have now before its all too late. well done Robin whoever gets you is lucky!
Bravo Robin. You know where I'm coming from on this subject.👍
I have a lot of experience of being on the side of looking for an apprenticeship. I’m 6 years into the carpentry trade. Because I was 25 when I started looking for an apprenticeship for a career change. I had to go through the college diploma route as I kept getting told I was too old. I did my 3 years at college and got trained really well by some fantastic time served carpentry lecturers. I got my trainee CSCS card that was valid for 2 years. I worked with numerous apprentice carpenters during two years and it was embarrassing how much more I knew and how better trained I was than the apprentices I was working with.
When my card expired I was fuming when CITB told me that my college diplomas weren’t recognised to get my blue CSCS card (I had my level 1, 2 & 3 diploma). I was furious considering the apprentices I worked along side weren’t interested in the trade and weren’t taught anywhere near as well as I was in college to be told I wasn’t officially qualified in their eyes.
I had to do a one day assessment to get my NVQ 2 just to get my blue CSCS card. It was a 5 year battle from the moment I started my training to getting my recognised qualification.
With all that, my view on apprenticeships..... it’s very hard to find a decent employer who will offer a decent apprenticeship nowadays.
You ask a lot of employers/subbies nowadays and they all say the college diploma guys are better trained and more engaged than the apprentice trained guys. I think this is due to the youngsters aren’t interested anymore and have the option of apprenticeships when I think it should be available to more mature students as they’re more interested in learning than 16 year olds.
I personally feel college training is better as that’s the background I came from. I don’t feel I’d know half of what I know now if I got on an apprenticeship from my experience working alongside a few of the apprentices I have.
My Hinge jigs are available now in either 76mm or 102mm available now at my website www.robc.co.uk
It’s taken me 6 years to get into carpentry from college it’s been so long it’s like starting all over again, definitely learned way more in 9 months then I ever did at College
That’s sad to hear. It’s obviously changed a lot from 2001 when I left.
I enjoyed college and at that time it showed me a starting path for my trade.
It’s clearly not had enough lecturers come through the ranks to take college tuition into the future.
Some FE college are crap unfortunately, tutor standards are variable too. The training and experience you gain should complement each other and this can only really be adequately done by having sufficient and effective representation on the college’s advisory and teaching standards panels.
Unfortunately you leave school thinking you’ll go straight into college do a trade and find a job straight away but it just never was the case there needs to be a better system in place to get young people into the trade rather than company’s asking if you have had any experience at 18 I had no experience and no one willing to help me it’s a shame
I have had the pleasure of having a apprentice while working for the building company I have been with for the last 10 years . He is now out doing his own thing adding to the economy and what he has learned will serve him for the rest of his working life .
A great initiative mate, we need to grow the industry and not loose the old school skills.
Got to agree with you about apprenticeship. I had an engineering apprenticeship and it has stood us all in good stead. Just going to college is just not enough to round out the training without the on the job training.
Thank you Mr Clevett
on the job training is always the best! problem solving is something you dont learn in college!
Have you ever taken a physics or chemistry class?
@@lukes8846 yeah, why? haha
I’m afraid that’s rubbish!
@@nevillewebb2856 I’m not saying you don’t learn anything in college! But putting things into practice and learning on the job accelerates the training a lot more I think
@@ashleydavenport3794 agreed. And, the college has to ensure its teachings are still relevant, interesting and stimulating - there’s a lot the apprentices can learn from each other and teach the tutors too (if they’re have the humility to learn from the students).
There are a number of routines and practices which must be systematically taught to enforce good practice. Bad, cynical and jaded practice is all too often tolerated or goes unsupervised on site.
Tell you a little story.. 😆.
When I started my training, in this trade.. I started out as a labourer. I worked on building sites and got involved with helping out all sorts of trades.
I got my first taste of carpentry back in 2002 and enjoyed it.
I looked for a course and costed it out and set a path to make a new career of it .
Over 2002-09 I laboured away laboured away saving up and also getting work in other fields to.
I did my level 1 intro course.. then grafted for my level 2. I got the level 1 funded by the government.. but the level 2 I EARNED and passed American college style.
I was so proud of that result.. nothing like coming of benefits, making an exec decision on a career and making it happen with our help.
I moved to my first Home in Sheffield.. and things got interesting.
I qualified sadly right when the 2009 recession hit.. and I was an adult apprentice then. So it really did become a new City new start although I did have college mates up there at uni.
So.. with nobody getting funding then due to the recession I took the gam with the agencies and the agreed to put my out using there services.. and TREAT ME as fully fledged.. a gamble tbf, but I got with a firm and flew.. and did a few jobs through them and with other firms.
I built my experience up slowly a little at a time but always watching and learning.
Won’t deny it was hard.. but over time when I felt I was ready.. I started to take photos.
When the agencies contracted out the payroll departments.. I along with quite a few chippies at the time rebelled and I setup my own business based purely on what I had been doing. Shopfitting, property maintenance and handy man services.
Through that I took photos of the work I did for the website.. and continued as I went along.
I then put in for an OSAT (On-site Assessment) in 2014 where I was assessed on site.. and with the combined efforts of what I had done plus the help from chippie contacts I had made over time I managed to get through and get my NVQ3.
As Robin said in the video, it is far better to get with an employer/lead Carpenter, and learn off them.
I also think you should do the ALL the class work along with the site stuff.
But if you can get a guy to give you the time to you on a new build/ timber frame fair play and you will be the better for it.
However as the ultimate reward for all my hard work.. I went on what was supposed to be a gap year to New Zealand and it panned out to be a total re low.. going to help out with the rebuild of Christchurch after the earthquakes of 2012.
The plan was and still is to contribute to the rebuild, kiwi fi my U.K. skills, and with the combined skills, over time, build the home I will retire in. And that’s timber frame as it is big out there.
There is a lot more to it than that but that’s where I am at at present.
So totally understand why the lad on here made his move and don’t blame him given England’s current “situation”.
Sadly I had to come home for family reasons but am planning on going back next year covid allowing.
I don’t condone the way I did things but times in 09 it was a just get work situation.
However, if you ask your self:
What is your purpose in life.. goals, steps, and a path of achieving immediately show up.
An OSAT is a new route but you either have to have an employer who will let you be assessed, or if your self employed you have to be in a position to generate the evidence from the performance criteria your self.
I did it the hard way by setting up placements to suit..but like I say so much easier to get with a lead carpenter from day one.
What Robin dose not say.. and I think this needs to be made very very clear.
Colleges make out that after you have done you level 2 &3 NVQ they seem to make out your qualified.
Yes that’s true in their business eyes it’s job done we have your money etc.
However in the industry your NOT.
Apprenticeships used to be and still are in Aus and New Zealand, 4 years to complete.
If a college says your qualified after 2 that is a lie folks. Your industry ready but not fully qualified.
Robin will clear this up but how many years did it take him after he did college to be time served?
I bet it was 4-8 years so let’s say 8 years from doing your level 2 to being confident in your self to go on a new build and you being able to lead a mate putting a roof on.
Certainly would not be doing it just after you got your level 3 maybe with a team or a lead.
But to round this off.. there are different routes through your apprenticeship process.. based on the setup you have with your employer, your age and if your self employed or facing tough climes in the industry due to say a recession etc.
The important thing is to research all your options, and see what funding is about .
DONT buy all your tools at once.
My set totals about £6000 in total with all the battery kit.
Buy what you need in stages.. or get the employer to fund them. Best to share if you can when starting out but treat them with respect.. for your safety as well as the fact they belong to some one else.
Carpentry can be fun.. and speaking as a kiwi carpenter.. you can make some great mates and have a bit of a laugh out on site as the day goes on.
Work as a whole.. has to sides.. making the money yes.. but also enjoying the people your with and feeling like you belong in the team your with.
A side personally is dying in the U.K.. to much focus on getting things right and as fast as you can on price.. people just want it done quick and make the bucks and take short cuts which come back to nip them in the back over time.
Do it once, do it right and.. I don’t want to see the customer or Forman again not because I don’t like them but because I have done everything right and they are happy with the work.
That’s how I look at it.. but your always learning.. and getting better.. it dose not stop at your apprenticeship.
Just don’t give up.. and always listen and follow the instructions carefully.
Rule of two:
“A master and an apprentice there is. “
From Star Wars. 😉
Keep learning and enjoy it out there it’s a good trade if you make it happen.
Do the work and things will come right .
That’s my view anyway. 👍😊
Thanks so much for your inspiring story and highlighting the struggles to get on in life Giles!! I am sure that this will resinate with many readers of this post, many thanks again
this was not a little story 🤣
Have my apprenticeship interview in an hour, so great full I found this video haha
Thanks for another great video. It's great to see the apprenticeships being put back into their rightful and needed place!
A couple of things it reminded me about, although I'm well past the apprenticeship stage, is where you advise young hopefuls to get their tools from? The big stores stock a lot that is quite gimmicky and they sound good at first but end up costing a packet and being stored in a bottom drawer. They don't have the wealth of experience behind them. So it's great that you share your accumulated knowledge and experience and highlight some of the tools through your site?
And finally, an extension to this question, have you heard anything about the large tool fairs and when they might be starting back up and how you generally go about obtaining tickets? I was looking to go a couple of years ago and then COVID happened.
Thanks for your advice and thanks for sharing what you do!
Funny when I was working alongside builders, all of the safety requirements on a job site went out the window. From what I learned at vocational institutions, we were taught safety was paramount when using tools and around others. At polytechnics, we were taught about being measuring carefully, now its like just guess and do everything free hand.
Awesome channel Robin, I have loved watching all your tips and advice. You are a master at what you do. Any Apprentice that gets the pleasure of being tutored by you must feel very lucky, I know I would!!
I have been looking into Carpentry courses as I feel that's where I would like to go with my career, but it's not easy for someone that's been in a different trade for 20 odd years.
What advice could you give me to help me in seeking out a way into the Carpentry trade??
I am a 40 year old man who has been in the Electronics industry since 2001, but has found a love of building with timber.
Keep up the good work and keep the videos coming, cheers mate.
Interesting commentary. Thanks for the video. Sent me to research what some of the terminology means.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Spot on video, thanks for sharing.
My pleasure!
Great video Robin.
I'm afraid I'm going to speak from the chip on my shoulder and say the main problem for the past 20 years at least is the attitude from schools,government and dare I say it parents looking down their noses at vocational education and trades in general. Its all been focused on everyone (whether they wanted to or not) doing university education, which is all very well but who's going to build the campuses. Very rarely do you hear any discussion/debate on TV or radio talking about anything to do with trades or vocational skills. Its all about university education. Gets quite frustrating. I could go on but it's all with the benefit of hindsight and too late. I think the government should have a Minister for Vocational education/Trade.😉😉
I left school in 2013 and all we had drummed into us was “if you don’t pass these exams you’ll never get into university” and they huffed and puffed at the idea of wanting to do any practical work. Funnily even then I used to think to myself you as a teacher may have went to university but still have to spend your money on paying someone to hang a door.
@@connorkennedy6577 hey let’s not over do it.
Hanging a picture is probably beyond them! 🙄
@@connorkennedy6577Thats just it, some folk would curl up their nose at the slightest notion of their son or daughter or pupil doing a trade but are straight on the phone to said tradesman to do a job for them. A trade might be hard work but you can make it as glamorous as you want and can pay very well too. I mean, even for the tools available now is surely an incentive. ☺
I left school in 2015 and got told by one teacher that it was stupid me going to be a brickie instead of doing something academic😂 almost 6 years in and I now earn more than him, I’ve also had people give me dirty looks for wearing a high vis as if I’m an alien😂
@@jackbircham439 Good on ye. And after the dirty looks they'll ask if you're interested in building them a barbecue for them as a homer.☺
Great video, very useful 🙂
I agree! Earn as you learn. All for apprenticeships. If I was 16 again, I would look to do an apprenticeship in carpentry. Too old now though, but love working with timber.
You need your own workshop Robin, your own site where we could do some courses with you and learn your skills etc like the older class, I'm 35 and would love to do a few classes to gain skills for home use.
I have been a builder and have had more than 6 bona fide apprentices with me over my career. One of the things that they did not like was the low wage that I could afford to pay them. Apprentices do not become profitable straight away but they all appreciated the start that I gave them. I became an apprentice in 1961 and was paid a 1/4 of the tradesmans rate which at the time was 5 shillings an hour(25p) so I was paid 1sand 3d(6p))
I'd of loved to have served an apprenticeship under you pal. Who ever does is a lucky boy. "or girl" 😂
The reality of the vast majority of building contractors is they don’t price for the apprentice. Even when they take them on there no time in schedules to allow time to teach and time for them to practice. I have a level three carpentry student with me who owns a hammer and a tape measure. The contractor expects me to provide him with tools and teach him , act as foreman and do my job. Baring in mind I started as the second carpenter , it’s taken him a nano second to realise I have experience ( 35 years ) and lumber me with a ton of responsibility I didn’t agree to. I’d love to say this is an isolated experience , but sadly not. One of the reasons I love your channel Robin is it proves that there’s a right way of doing things. You are the benchmark that the industry needs to be looking at.
Thank you for your comment Adrian. I so hear what you are saying from your own experiences, the industry is pretty broken in my opinion and there needs to be some real change to improve the way that we work and exist!!
@@ukconstruction there’s a great RUclips video called something like “We are not master carpenters “. NS Builders travel to Switzerland and see a trade college there. A real eye opener. Would love to think a similar institution could work here. You’d be the perfect figure head.
Definitely think young people need to get stuck in ASAP... apprenticeships may not be the easiest thing to secure, however it’s very hard to be taken seriously later in life. Go for it anyone contemplating it!
I take my hat off to you sir, but Not all are like you I'm afraid. I remember the times you speak of. I was the last of the indentured apprentices at that time, instead youth training schemes paying the same as the dole was introduced, with no structure towards employers responsibilies. Trouble was, unless you were apprenticed, the Carpentry & Joinery course wasn't available. They tried to kick one guy off who work for a company that specialised mainly in glazing, and he was an excellent chippy. I did ok even though my employer made it hard work. Not paying fees on time, I was pulled out of class regular, to be given the opportunity to ring the office and push payment. He wanted me to fail, but my father & grandfather had gone down this line when doing their time as Carpenters. My grandfathers, grandmother, paid for his, and was told that the idea of him being taught all aspects of the trade to nick their business was cuckoo land. Btw he did just that to spight them. When my time was served, the College went to my employer to ask that I be put forward for the advanced & supplementary course. He replied that he had enough of chiefs, he needed indians ? I completed it on a scholarship basis at night after work. It was hard after a long day. Learning should be a right from the cradle to the grave. Thanks to people like you, we might one day reach that goal, but attitudes must change. They haven't in the last 100 years, let's make it in the next.
I couldn't agree more with what you've said here Robin. I think apprenticeships have somewhat been lost over the past few years as it's easier and cheaper to teach in numbers, as appose to 1 to 1.
This is where i think the construction industry is lacking, it's struggling to keep a steady flow of professional, knowledgeable tradesman through the generations. i've seen so many people on site say they can do something, yet they have no idea how to do it the correct way, because they've not had the guidance of an experienced tradesman.. and i feel this will slowly become the future of the job some of us enjoy, just take a look at the decline in new build quality...
Great video Robin, well said all the best Tony
Nice one Tony, love your new podcast set up mate!!!
@@ukconstruction thanks mate hope you and family are all well. I see the squares coming along nicely, I don’t know weather you are interested mate but as soon as I can I will be organising a weekend event with a few people of the industry Del the Tall Carpenter has offered to help out wonder if you would be interested in getting involved encouraging the youth of today to come along and have go sort of thing all the best Tony 👍
I couldn't agree more about the dilution of "apprenticeship" I feel it devalues the trades.
Would be amazing to have him as your teacher
*You’re having a fulfilled life my friend, lucky classes to come in your more “relaxed” years!!!*
*THE ROBIN CLEVETT SCHOOL OF CARPENTRY AND JOINERY!!! BOOM!!!!!!*
I would love that!!
@@ukconstruction *then bag it my friend, nail it!* 👌🏼
Thank you for speaking up for apprenticeships Robin. I would love it if you were able to come our college and give a talk about all the benefits of them and getting into wood related industries in general. I know you are busy but if you find a spare day it would be great.
Hi Gary, where is the college
@@ukconstruction Ipswich
Totally agree with you m8y
yes
Back in the early 90’s I was sent to a a building training college in West Hampstead on NVQ level 1 and 2 carpentry and joinery course by the dole office. I didnt know it then but the saved a completely rudderless youth who had no idea what he wanted to do with his life.
Thats awesome mate really glad for you that this worked out for you! probably see you on site one day mate!
Think karl hit the jackpot that day.
I am a time served carpenter, 39 now. Straight out of school into college through CITB. I worked under a very small company of two carpenters in London on sites first of all learning my craft to develop, hone and get your speed up but still maintain neatness, then evolved to the domestic market side of things.
If you want something you have to graft for it and have a passion for your potential craft whatever that is.
What I have learnt over the years is that if you are after an apprenticeship in carpentry, college to learn the fundamentals along side a decent carpenter but please please please do not get involved in being sucked in by a building firm that does not have any in house carpenters you will learn something but not your craft seen this so many times when do sub contracting.
No one is going to give you your badge for free. We can guide you but you yourselves have to choose the right path.
You have to be showing willing to learn which like many have said and I won’t tarnish all but the lack of enthusiasm in a small minority of youngsters these days is shocking across all trades I have seen over the years.
I myself am at an age now that feels I should be giving back what was passed down to me and what I’ve learned myself and still learning today I might add.
Good luck to ones that are doing well. If you’re finding it tough in some areas eventually things will naturally develop and progress. Stick in there! Need you for the future for Christ sake! 🤟🏻
Thanks for the useful words of advice Chris 👊
This is an interesting topic this because you can go to college and theoretically everyone should be taught the same syllabus and all come out at the same standard . However I do not believe that is the case for various reasons but mainly because many Colleges are a business first and place of higher education second. The same can also be true of a skilled tradesman who is looking to pass on his knowledge vs. the "jobber" who is using an apprentice as cheap labour. The reality is there are a lot of "qualified" tradesman out there who are not fully trained to the standards they should be.
Hello again mate, I’m in the steel fabrication industry for the food sector, one thing I’ve noticed is the skills are being replaced by cnc. Where I used to mark out a square to round a computer now does it for you, is this the same with carpentry. I just feel the raw skills are slowly diminishing.
I was a apprentice carpenter, the experience put me off the construction industry for life. I now know longer work in the construction industry.
Before I get the obvious comments I was never on my phone or late. I worked ridiculous hours yet was treated worse than most dogs.
Its know wonder they're is a trade shortage in the UK, as my generation I'm 26 years old now struggled with how your treated on site as a apprentice.
Let alone modern day 16 year olds who need a safe space, which I get they're a totally different generation after all. We are all different and they are more aware of there mental health.
Either way from my experience I would do your research on any company you go for a apprenticeship with. I know they're are some great companies with carpenters who want to pass on they're trade. The ones I where with where nasty bastards.
A lot of young lads love the name of been a trade person, buying tools and wearing snickers, but the hard work of learning they have no intrest in. But there are good young hard workers out there but few far between, and are usually snapped up
I was thinking about this the other day. To a young person, the world today looks very different to what you are taking about as the norm back then. Nowadays young people see a world where apprenticeships don't exist so much and the job market for a young person can be a zero hours minimum wage job where a young person is disposable. Young people are also discriminated against, why do we have tiers of minimum wage levels? Recently the minimum wage increased for 23(?) and above. Why? Why are younger people valued in tiers? This is the messaging that is put out and it's no wonder there are many who take it on board.
@@Paul-XCIV2 i wonder if the lower minimum wage for younger people isn't more about enticing employers to employ them? For many it's a first job with zero experience and if minimum wage were a level playing field then most employers would always go with someone who has some experience first.. Making young people cheaper to employ makes them a lot more employable.
As a fencing contractor (commercial work) I've put 2 lads through their apprenticeships the second Owen works for me now cracking lad you feel proud watching their skills grow etc anyway I've jus taken a new lad on 17yrs and I'm told there's no funding for an apprenticeship. It will cost over 2 grand for course an that's an expense I don't wanna take
Hi mate What would you say be the best way to get myself into the trade when I finish my level 2 site carpentry in June/July in 33 so not to sure how I go about the transition from college to doing it as a career any advice please would be awesome
Have never been a tradesman but was a chef after being self-taught (no college etc). Can see the parallels where people out of college only knew basics and really they learnt most stuff on the job as commis chefs. Is there an issue with training apprentices and them moving on for better pay? How hard is it to retain people after you’ve trained them as apprentices?
What’s the difference between nvq qualifications and diplomas?
Are you still able to enrol in an apprentiship at the age of 25? Or is there a cut off age? Would love to do one just need to no the correct way to go about it!
If the first mentor you get is the right person then it gives you a great foundation and grounding for the rest of your career. But the apprentice needs to stick with them for more than the 3 years college time.
Good stuff. Even in database development, especially for developing reporting tools, those who do it well have an apprentice mindset and their more experienced colleagues should have a master to trainer attitude. It should never a case of flicking a mouse around and clicking on predefined on-screen buttons. That attitude leads to sloppy, flaky results that operators will stop using very quickly. That can cost the organisation £millions and, in health and social care, leads to serious case reviews when disaster happens. Classroom is never a replacement for diligently acquiring wisdom for the task
Hi,is oak to hard work once dried out fully.
I had an apprentice with me and unfortunately it didn’t work out But I think the colleges need to do more to get the right apprentices to the right people
Nothing to do with video subject, the bench Robin is sitting on, is there a video/plan as to how to make.
Hi Robin, Have you thought about a short video on building the very rigid looking lightweight bench you were sitting on? Mike
Hi Mike, I will try to remember to mention this in another video, originally I made this from left over material for me to push around and work from when doing all my plasterboard ceilings in my new house!!
@@ukconstruction Thanks Robin. It looks pretty good but it's hard to guess the construction from the video. Did you use a lifter for the ceilings. Having struggled to board a rather high (3.5m one side) sloping ceiling in France we bought one and it's a doddle to use. Only about €125? Mike
Any tips on the best way to transition into carpentry? Im an apprentice trained welder/fabricator so alot of the maths and geometry work is very similar. However im mid 30s and couldnt take the paycut going back to an apprenticeship. Whats the best route to take Robin?
There’s no direct transition as far as I know. However, there are a lot of transferable skills as you say... your approach needs to be two-fold: 1. With training, 2. With work - and you need to earn at the same time. Try enrolling on a college evening class and get your quals that way (as you’ve already done an apprenticeship there probably no funds for you - check out the Institute for Apprenticeship tho). Work wise, try local small to medium sized builders - talk to the boss and let your enthusiasm come through. Take as many opportunities as possible in your current workplace to stretch yourself and do woodwork related tasks wherever and whenever they present. Start acting like a carpenter and someone will recognise you as one. Good luck
I see plenty of jobs advertised that require a bachelor's degree and several years experience but only pay $25-30 an hour. My apprenticeship started at 27.25 I'll journey out around 44 and I'll have no student loan debt.
Do u have any courses furniture apprentice I'm 37 got my level 1 carpentry and joinery but nothing came of it are you in hull ??? I'm in hull n don't drive could I somehow get annerpprenticship for precooked specialist furniture making please retch out thank you😊❤
An apprentice is only as good as his mentor.
Thats true, i was an apprentice at a large building firm and worked with several carpenters during my apprenticeship. Cherry pick the best bits from each guy and develop your own methods.
Hi robin, what is the difference between a joiner and carpenter - they seem to be called joiners in the north and carpenters in the south, even when doing the same role ?
Normally workshop Joiner
Onsite carpentry, in my day ooh the memories!!
Carpenters generally do carcassing work like roofs,walls, floors, joists, doors & window fitting ,general contruction tasks. Joiners make cabinets, furniture, purpose made items for shops etc but they do overlap as most chippies will attest to, cheers
Joiners measure in mm carpenters use feet and inches 😂.. Joiners are wankers james. Well my boss is at least 🤫
Last year I did a level 2 diploma in site carpentry and joinery but because I am 25 and have a family and not really any site experience know one will take me on or even give me a chance so I feel stuck on where to go or what to do now can you or anyone give me advice on this please thankyou
I really think apprenticeships in building should be longer than 3-4 years as most people that are freshly qualified are far from there potential, i think you truly start learning after your qualified. those 3-4 years are just learning the basics... it takes years to fully understand reading of architectural plans and engineering drawings and to run a team of guys, while managing subcontractors.
Are you not on skill builder anymore ?
How can i myself get an apprenticeship being 31, recently left the army after 13 years service and wanting to get in the trade industry.
Talk to CITB,
goconstruct - www.goconstruct.org/get-started-in-construction/apprenticeships/
And your local Further Education College
People like you are in demand - good luck 👍
My local CITB Training Centre was closed years ago
The CITB seems to be silent on this whole issue, I approached them about a grant to help me develop leaning materials for Carpenters and trainees and they just shut the door on me, yet they gave grants out to huge construction firms one I read about was for £222,400.00 for a "Fairness inclusion and Respect tool kit" see the link here to see some of their funding projects!!!! www.citb.co.uk/levy-grants-and-funding/commissioning/commissioned-projects/training-and-development/fir-toolkit-stage-2/
@@ukconstruction CITB only seams interested in the CSCS scheme .But if they don't get their act to give there will be no need for the cards .I now just work for small 1 or 2 man companies so don't need their card any more
Do you need to have English and math GCSE to start a carpentry apprenticeship? If so would functional skills English and math do?
No mate, just a good knowledge of both
@@ukconstruction so I could go college in September if I had an employer to start my apprenticeship?
i think apprenticeships are great we just need to ensure they are a good employers i was employed by a employer after i had done my diplomas at college got the short straw boss basically wanted me to be basically fully qualified joiner because i had the diploma level 3 completed my nvq 2 and started level 3 and basically told they no longer paying me for college and i got the college involved and basically sacked me because i told them they where breaking the law there is a lot of employers doing this now getting the funding and using any little thing to get rid of them because if they can justify that you done something wrong to citb they still get the full funding for you i ended up going from passing my nvq 3 which i got permission off city and guilds because i had the prior learning (diplomas) i could complete is a year and 1 day for my nvq 3 because i felt i basically got taught nothing as all my apprenticeship i was on my own basically dropped off at a job with my tools and get on with it and even getting my own apprentice when i didn't know half the stuff i was doing i went from that to becoming a joinery technician in the college i passed from and now looking at doing my cert ed through the college to start teaching but i can honestly say i am confident at doing all tasks that's where videos like robins come in handy to refresh my memory and sometimes give me hints and tips i never know
im 45 and finshed my level 2 carpentry and joinery last year.nearest collage that did level 3 was a 200 pound aweek train ticket away.id lost my job due the factory shutting so not much income coming in.so that wasnt a option.applied for a skilled cscs card only to told sorry mate your diploma dont mean a thing.you need an nvq.cant find a site that will take me on.so i had to get a labourers card instead.so i wasted 2 years just so i can start at the bottom as a labourer.dont misunderstand when say this nothing wrong with labouring.but thats not what i trained for.at no point was i told by the college that my grades wouldt be good enough for a cscs card.more needs to be done in terms of informing you what is needed so you dont waste your time.
I’m 48 and would love to redo my time with you 👷🏻♂️
There's a shortage of apprentices across the world. Now that education is an industry they are pushing higher education and not all people are suited the uni, heaps of people are suited to using there hands and this needs to be bought back into mainstream education. I rang every builder in my area to get an apprenticeship about 300 calls my first pay packet went on paying the phone bill back to my parents. I also had to go self employed in '91 and am still going, we've had a few apprenticesover the years and have 1 at the moment and will need another in a month or two. All trades here in Oz are struggling to find any young people who will even try a trade, they'd rather stack shelves at Woolies than start at the bottom and work their way up, all short term thinking. We're trying to get some local schools to do school based apprenticeships where they might do 1 day a week whilst still at school to see if they like it. Big problem everywhere. Keep up the great work and video's. cheers from down under.
Its a global problem Brendan, I hear from my contacts in The USA that the same is happening there!! I am going to start a global campaign like save the Whale but Save the Carpenter!!!!! would you guys get on board!!
@@ukconstruction We'd be in on that, I like that suppliers are getting on board over there, next time I''m in at our main supplier I'll mention to the trade rep. Do you have anything showing what the suppliers are doing to push trades? cheers
@@ukconstruction Hello Robin
Great topic, I am living in Canada, [outside Toronto ] for over 50 years now, did my Carpentry Apprentship in Northern Ireland in the 1960s , also got my City & Guilds in 1969, The very same problems here in Canada , Very poor training systems in the schools and the focus on higher education all the time to protect the " Professors " The training system here would be zero if not for the Unions having their own training schools, they are fairly good because the teachers are actually Carpenters with a little training of handling students not the other way around with a History Teacher who decides that with a little bit Wood shop training they are now Qualified to teach Carpentry etc.
Any how I sure support your efforts on this very important topic which is going to effect all of our futures, These current problems started with a Prime Minister named MAGGIE T.
Whats the divrents between a Carpenter and a joiner?
A joiner works wood, a carpenter paints cars.
None, I've always called myself a joiner, even though I trained as a Carpenter and joiner.
All the large firms now employ nobody. All smaller subbies they can have a hold over. Sparking wise, firms employ labourers overseen by a few qualified men. All about the dough.
And no loyalty, continuity of work a problem now on site, poorly managed ,rush rush then a lull then off again, never used to be like this.
Why did you leave the skill builders ?
Hi mate, I am still doing work with SkillBuilder mate but there are also plenty of other guys who work with them too!!
@@ukconstruction Great 👍. Keep up your great work . Respect 🙏
I started my apprenticeship in the late 70's and it took 4 years to complete. Then I recall coming across many joiners/carpenters on sites who had completed a youth training scheme lasting weeks and they thought they were fully trained up and knew everything there was. Training schemes are a joke and always have been. There has to be a government led initiative for companies to start apprenticeships that last longer than a few months and for them to be accepted by the industry with recognised college exams like the City & Guilds if it is still going these days.
The CITB Youth Training Scheme (the Robin refers to in the 80’s) was a prelude to an apprenticeship in the construction industry. It was an essential part of government pump priming the industry and supporting the chronic lack of investment construction firms were making at the time. I personally looked after over 120 youngsters taking the programme each year and had a 98% success rate - most of whom went on to become very useful tradesmen (no women at the time ). In 1985 the CITB had over 100, 000 YTS enrolled and overall in England and Wales had a 95% success rate.
You also have to remember the nature of the workplace was changing, contracts were squeezed, more subcontract working was the norm and there was a call for a better, universal and more systematic training process to replace the older apprenticeship schemes (which were dying on their feet).
In our industry there were over 26k starts in 2017*, and over 375k across industry - all of which are funded in some way by the government. There are currently over 100# different apprenticeships available in the construction industry - so a range for a budding apprentice to choose.
*source: assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/871769/Apprenticeships_in_England_by_industry_characteristics_2018to2019_final.pdf
#source: www.goconstruct.org/get-started-in-construction/apprenticeships/
@@nevillewebb2856 Hi Neville i commend you and completely agree with most of what you are saying, but and it is a big but, so why is it failing, now i fully understand all your points and construction has changed in the last few decades, but it's because of the lack of funding which effects training and drive from the government, also everyone being pushed towards Universities that has made this situation. There should be a longer period of training not one or two years, it should be 4 to 5 years i personally feel, Robin has even said him self and i total agree with him its become to diluted. It is true you have probably had thousands of great apprentice but how many could of been better because the Youth deserve to be the best they can. This is such a massive debate and i truly hope that we can get there in the end but this will all hinge on the correct Government funding and longer training schemes all the best Tony
@@aeconstructionwarwickshire3797 the new apprenticeships are now based on competency standards which are set by a selection of company representatives in a consortium. The various levels an apprentice can take are now equivalent to secondary and tertiary education standards - an advanced apprenticeship finishes at level 3 (equivalent to A levels), a degree apprenticeship completes at foundation (HND equivalent ) and a Level 6 apprenticeship - Honours degree equivalent.
@@nevillewebb2856 Hi Neville I really wish that every student that comes out of the construction industry training board was the best they could be because the youth deserve it. I’ve been in the industry for 35 years trained 6 guys in my life time. I would love for you to show me or tell me why most apprentices feel let down we also run a RUclips called Build with A&E and I would love to show all the doubters or audience on RUclips that it is working thanks for the open discussion really enjoy people’s views all the best Tony 👍
I had a boy in my cab recently who was an apprentice plumber but his tradesman made his life hell and taught him nothing so he left his job and now works in Tesco, absolute shame.
My Grandson was 2yrs into a plumbing apprenticeship .... At the start of this pandemic, the firm he worked for CUT the workforce ... Last in - First Out! ... HE now works in 'Tesco's Distribution' as well, as couldn't find another firm to take him on :-(
@@CheckFred that’s so sad, half way through his apprenticeship as well, hopefully once things pick up he can restart it again 🤞🤞
Can’t get the young to work nowadays. Unless I’ve just came across all lazy ones, different generation, if you can get them to turn up u can’t get them off there phone
Who built the 1st college 🤔😂
Unfortunately the problem in the UK lies within the training. It's not regulated properly and you are getting poor quality "tradesmen" coming through. We need a system like in Germany/Austria/Switzerland. You can only get an apprenticeship to learn, after 3 years, when you finish you become a Gisele and can't work for yourself yet until you do a further 2 years training to do your Meister(master). Until you become a Meister you can't employ people or take on apprentices and have your own business. You get intensive training and it keeps the skill level high. Their knowledge is the best i've come across and i'm lucky to have two German Meisters as well as my UK qualifications. This system would benefit the u.k. massively.
With what you were saying about shortages, I think this is going to be a big problem in the future, it already is for some trades. Like another person commented, people don’t respect vocational education and would rather push their children towards university. Another side of this is also pay. Trade wages have not increased anywhere near what other sectors have. Also the government hasn’t helped themselves with making everyone pay for cscs cards. I’m all for training and h&s but really, making us pay every 3 years. Most people in the trade I know just can’t be bothered with the scheme so stick to private work.
Professionals have to pay anything from £160 per year to remain part of their respective institute - some have to become members of two or three to maintain the standing expected. Who do you suggest should pay for your card?
Also, isn’t this an associated and legitimate expense and therefore tax deductible?
@@nevillewebb2856 I hear what your saying and we too have to pay to to our respective institutes, ie: gas safe, around £3000 I think, NICEIC for electricians, PDA for painters around £400. All are tax deductible and have always been part of our profession. The cscs cards just seem to be a money making scheme but offer no use to actual trades people. Personally once you’ve sat the course 1x I don’t see the need to have to resit this every three years. You have to be inducted when you start at a new site and are ran through hours of H&S. We have a shortage of trades, mainly for new builds, but not for private. Their has to be a correlation between these two factors with what the government implements and what I hear and see everyday as a tradesman.
@@Rustyfinger it’s a ball-ache I agree. There are employees who will abuse any system I suppose and the CSCS card is one which, if properly used, should help to ensure the right people are doing the job.
And don't be afraid starting on the path - remember professionals built the titanic & amateurs built the ark, okay I'm kinda joking.
One on one with a good chippy,college just gives u paperwork,doesn’t teach how to solve lots of problems that you come across on the job or how to work around other trades
Apprenticeship's are great but employers can take the piss and have you work for peanuts!!!