"just because something has a Christian label on it doesn't mean it's Christian." Well said and good point. That would also apply to so-called "Christian" churches that have abandoned the Gospel but maintain the name "Christian" on their buildings.
I honestly cannot stand most “Christian music,” it’s cheesy and unrelatable. It all sounds the same too, very cookie cutter formulaic. Often you cannot tell if it’s a romantic song to a partner or a song to or about the Lord.
I KNEW IT!! I’ve been saying that a lot of the music on Christian radio doesn’t seem very worshipful anymore. I first noticed it it about a decade ago. The music is all “me me me”.
Define, "me, me, me." That singer might be singing about the effects and the outcome of what Jesus has done "for them." You see, this is why it is important to ask the question, "what do you mean by that," because anything can be interpreted a million different ways.
@ That’s wonderful that Jesus has worked in their lives-truly. But worship is distinct from gratitude for what God has done for us; it’s about honoring who He is. Worship calls us to remove ourselves from the equation, placing God alone at the center. It shifts our focus from ourselves and our experiences to a place of reverence, adoration, and awe for His character. Worship is directed to God because He alone is worthy, not for what He has done, but for who He is-holy, sovereign, and eternally good.
I do also…. Just be aware though, even some of them have biblical or theological errors. For instance: Amazing grace - “the earth will soon dissolve like snow” no scripture to support when you read Revelation
As someone who's been involved in the Christian music scene I've seen first hand the musicians who have started out deeply invested in thier faith only to become no different than the world and deconstructed.
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. I John 2:19 ESV
Greed and vanity corrupt. Seeking such a position is spiritually dangerous. It's worth noting that Fanny Crosby, Jesse B. Pound, etc. wrote hymns for the entire church to sing together. They were not rockstar celebrity performers like we have today.
When my church started a contemporary service, while keeping our traditional service, I was confronted with this criticism. So, I took that Sunday's song list, and counted all the I's and me's and so on in both services. The I's and me's of the contemporary songs paled in comparison to the I's and me's in the traditional service that was mostly hymns. So, I looked at the context. The context of the words didn't help, it was still me centric. This is something I have periodically done throughout the years ... and it has held up. While the I's and me's are present, they are rarely about praising ourself and about us needing God ... us needing His help ... His healing ... His love. Or they are about our experience with God and what He has done for us. But, isn't that what worship is? It is us declaring how much worth we have for God. I can't sing about your needs, I can only sing about my needs. I can only sing about the worth and value God means to me. Worship is personal, thus the I's and me's.
@@MichaelDawson03 well, I commend you for your vigilance! And, yes, you're right, many old hymns are littered with references to the first person. It may be that our church is particularly prone to 'personal worship', but I prefer to see worship as a corporate act, and I'll often change the words to 'us' and 'we' as I sing.
As someone who has been volunteering for the GMA Awards in Canada, I can attest to this problem. One must remember that getting a song known requires business savvy, and most of the time, this doesn't seem to be compatible with Christian values. We artists must remember we are doing what we do for an audience of one.
Brothers and Sisters 💔🥹 please 🙏 pray for my son Billy, he’s currently suffering from bipolar depression, ocd, and anxiety. Love you all in Christ Jesus and thank you so much, will pray for you all also.
@@festushaggen2563 Thank you so much brother! I don’t know how much more we can 😓 endure. I’ve been begging for prayers lol but that’s how bad it is and God has always been faithful to give Billy some relief and peace. God bless. 🙏
I have prayed for you and I'd like you to know that you're not alone. My youngest son is 35 and struggling with the same issues but I can tell you that through prayer our glorious father has begun a great work in him. I am seeing so many positive changes because our Lord has intervened. God bless you and your son and family. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙌🏻☝🏻
Our worship pastor in our previous church in FL was an incredible talent. He was signed to a label in Nashville and his music made it to Christian radio. He was opening for the biggest names in Christian music. He returned from one of his recording trips in Nashville so distraught. He was hanging out with several of the very big name Christian artists that he always admired, but they invited him to go partying at the clubs and bars that weekend. He gave it all up. He switched gears to pour into his family and his home church, and then started an incredible movement that unites dozens of churches to worship together. He and the other local worship leaders get together and write biblically sound music that is not created for radio, but for true worship.
@@AG-cf4wn no, it's incredible to hear. A true disciple has discerned the truth and has left the bright lights of the world to follow Jesus in spirit and truth.
It varies a lot. Some songs written in the last 25 years are great, have solid theology and really help us engage with God. Some are absolutely rubbish and have very superficial lyrics.
It's not the style of music that matters - that is personal taste there are old songs that are both good and bad, just like modern ones. And music can connect and " speak Jesus" to people in a musical style that they relate to. Its what it communicates that matters. As Larry Norman used to sing " Why should the devil have all the good music?" and "Jesus is the rock and he rolled my blues away!" ( look it up if you want, it's a brilliant song) If you can find it on a youtube search, there is a brilliant clip of him describing a discussion between him and his dad about this subject.
I’m a musician who loves all genres and forms of music. Was a giant metal head and used to listen to so many things now that make my skin crawl, and as a Christian listen to anymore. Lyrics and words are powerful which is why I check every song I listen to now. I unfortunately will never have kids but if I did I’d be super watchful of what they listened to.
I used to be a big metal head when I was an atheist. Even early on in my Christian journey I was still a metal head. Now I can’t even listen to it, outside of Skillet, which is Christian. Even classic rock and pop (60’s, 70’s, 80’s) is draining to listen to. I’ve just given up most music altogether because I can feel the way the Holy Spirit is anguished when I listen to it.
I too was a metal head. The stuff that I did listen too now I think, how deaf I was to what was being said. Reading the lyrics and listening to what’s being sung is a big part of what I listen to now. That being said. I have a question. Have you heard of The Sowers? New AI generated music. They’re up front saying it’s AI generated music. The song King of Kings. Right at 33 seconds into the song. I hear something that sounds like it’s saying --- twice and then it changes. I repeat it over and over to make sure I didn’t hear it wrong. The lyrics they put up for the song doesn’t follow the song. And when I asked for an explanation of the song. I got was they don’t understand my question. I left the word blank just because if you do listen to it then maybe you hear what I hear or it’s just me hearing it wrong.
A lot of the songs in church are not ‘church’ songs, they’re not written for congregational singing, they are performance songs. They are fine to listen to outside the church but church worship should be written for people to sing, not the band to perform.
Definitely. I don't mind if people listen to or song lousy songs for their own entertainment, I like some really terrible songs too. But at worship, its another matter entirely and we have to make sure our preferences and emotional attachment does not bleed over into the church service.
Great time at the Worldview Apologetics Conference in Bellevue, Wa. Glad I was able to hear this discussion in person as well as sit in on Frank's (and others) classroom seminars that weekend.
I knew a Pastor who had children who listened to Christia hard rock band. The Pastor could not really understand the words being sung. So, he wondered if his kids could. He told them that he would allow them to listen to it, if they could tell him the words. They gave him the tape jacket, with the lyrics. Then, told him what each song was saying, as it played. Satisfied that is was, in fact, Christian. And, that his kids were getting the message. He allowed it.
I feel like the clarification that needs to be made in these discussions is that: If a song is good musically, lyrically, spiritually, then its good. It doesn't pay much to regard where it came from. It's not suddenly bad because of the name attached to it.
You HAVE to have a no compromise policy on music. Its easy to "bop along"? To humm the melody? Its catchy and sticks in your mind? Look at the text is there anything wrong with it? If yes, you got to cut it out of your playlist. We cannot forget, satan was once who lead worship in gods presence.
@@SpaceCadet4Jesus I did too . That type really spoke to me during the late 70’s when We were “those Jesus people” and still does the same thing now. Thank you Jesus.
I agree heavily with what the gentleman at the end was saying. Instead of christian parents forbidding one form of music and allowing another. Lets ask someone "why is one listening to this music?" I would add, " lets go over the message or point of the song, and what the artists intention possibly is" . To me that's just a better and more nauanced approach, where as the other approach may play a part in young people rebelling sometimes 🤔.
@CLDJ227 Thank You! Am I the only one who remember Tipper Gore? YEAH That Worked Out Real Good! Instead of Christian music or (Shudder) Christian movies, Christians make Good music/movies? BTW can we go back to when We were 14? When Mom & Dad told you You Can't Listen to That. What is the very 1st thing you did?
@@stevenwiederholt7000 what's the first thing one did? Probably the exact opposite when their parents weren't paying attention lol. Also, please elaborate on the Tipper Gore thing lol 🤔.
Not everyone is what the say they are. I could claim to be anything I want right now but that wouldn't make it true. The Bible warns us repeatedly to use wisdom and test all things by the word of God, to see if they are of God, so that we are not deceived. "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." I John 4:1
Our nephew just informed us that the music director at their church left recently and wasn’t even a believer. There’s a lot of pressure on churches to have hot sounding bands. The music has become what is called “moralistic therapeutic deism”. Why can’t we sing the songs with theological truth, poetic beauty, musically excellent, and singable? We do in our parish but we choose to be discerning in our music. I lay the responsibility largely at the pastors’ feet. Lord have mercy!
I have not seen any Christian worship songs coming out of Bethel that promulgate the Nar theology. Most of them are absolutely right on solid the scripture based and could be sung in any traditionally historic Christian Church anywhere in the world. Have you got examples? My go-to example is the goodness of God by Jenn Johnson. Simply solidly based on Psalm 23
You are correct. Surely, every song, no matter the origin, must be held to the fire of God's Word? It is wisdom to do this on a song by song, case by case basis. This nonsense about Hillsong/Bethel/Elevation "are all evil", is just that.....nonsense! Does this song/do these lyrics line up with the Truth of the Gospel....and do they glorify Jesus?
Agreed. It's so jarring to listen to folks sit on a panel and make blanket statements. We have to examine things on a case by case basis in light of scriptures. I long for the day someone would say, I'm not informed enough to have an opinion on the subject. This constant policing by people who most of the time don't know what they're talking about is a turn off. And don't get me started on the boogeyman "NAR"
This is why I sing in the choir to support my church's traditional service with organ and orchestra. My church also has a Modern Worship service, and I know there are a number of people who arrive late so they can skip most of the music and just see the sermon.
I am one of those people who intentionally arrives late, to miss the music. "Traditional" means hymns, but 99 times out of 100, they are going to be done in a pseudo COUNTRY style, which DRAINS me. "Modern" means rock-which DRAINS me. Notice that I said nothing about the WORDS. It is EASY to find substantive and godly lyrics in ANY style, which provoke true worship. But I have seen few things that churches are more rigid and willfully/stubbornly ignorant about, than _music._ That results in many people being continually left out, unless they surrender to that one or two styles that the particular church is willing to let through. Those are just some of the reasons why I am no longer a worship leader, and usually do not mention to churches that I play an instrument.
My family waits to enter until after the music because it is so very loud. It literally hurts the ears of my daughter and husband. I can take it, but it's still not pleasant. As for theologically, even my high schooler points out when the songs are off. Luckily at our church that's not often.
It’s important to recognize that all truth is God’s truth, meaning that even if a church whose pastor or affiliated organization doesn’t stand for Biblical truths or even propagates heretical doctrine, doesn’t mean that the church’s songwriters can’t write songs that agree and even illuminate scripture. I believe it’s important to be discerning and to judge every lyric by the Word of God and even if I hear a song from individuals who I might not fully agree with theologically, and it aligns with scripture, then I’ll wholeheartedly say amen to the song. It takes a mature Christian to “eat the meat, spit out the bones”. I also believe that worship leaders have a tremendous responsibility to ensure the songs we sing in church are edifying to the Body of Christ through and through. What we enjoy personally is not always expedient or profitable for the church like we think it might be.
It seems simple to me really, churches should be more discerning about what music they use for worship, and we need to be more discerning about whether what we listen to is secular or Christian. We shouldn't be expecting the world of CCM to do the discerning for us
Thank you for this VERY relevant discussion!! CCM & the influence (negatively so), is a massive concern and actually our "alarms" should be going off !
This isn’t about whether you should listen to Christian or secular music or what artists to listen to, this is about discernment and relying on the Holy Spirit to guide you. There is great music made by non-Christians that speak truth as well as Christians who make “secular” music that speaks truth. There are also songs that are labeled “Christian” that do not reflect the heart of God. Listen to music and appreciate its good qualities and ask the Holy Spirit for guidance as you listen.
It should be said. Christianity isn't a "don't do list". Real Christianity is not about what your missing.. but real Christianity is about finding what is "real" or "worthy". If you want to be stuck in kindergarden for the rest of your life.. then follow the world's path.
Partly Christianity is also a "don't do list" because for example if we read Eph. 4 Paul states some things we should not do (anymore). Althought that is not the main thing.
The recent collab between Maverick City Music and Kirk Franklin with rapper GloRilla have proved this to be exactly true. It’s just a business and they want to get their songs and brand in front of people at the cost of truth and goodness. There are so many faithful groups out there putting out theologically rich worship music, yet for some reason the church can’t move away from Hillsong, Bethel, Elevation, Mav City, Brandon Lake, etc.
Sovereign Grace Music and City Alight have wonderful worship music. The Getty’s, Matt Boswell & Matt Papa, Shane & Shane hymns albums, Emu Music, Nathan Drake.
We (parents, worship leaders, teachers, etc) must always listen to the words and be selective. But I also believe God can and does use anything for His purposes, even music which might not intentionally glorify Him. He is drawing all people to Himself. This is but one way, one step closer for those who seek Him. It is not the end.
Brother, if I'm the parent I will say to my child(ren) you won't be listening to that in this home and this is why. Then explain in a way that is comprehendable for them. "If a child is trained up in the way they should go, even when the child is old they will not be turned away from it." Proverbs 22:6 Amen✝️🕊️
@@CLDJ227 Listen carefully shortly after the 4:00 minute timestamp to his words. He makes a wishy-washy statement concerning the Parent Telling The Child that they will Not Listen to a particular song or type of music. He says The Parent doesn't necessarily have to do that, I believe the Parent does. He said The Parent should Ask The Child why they want to listen to it versus The Parent Telling The Child that they will not be listening to that garbage in this home and here is why, which was my comment and the reason I made the comment. Words are important. Improperly nuanced, wishy-washy, room to squirm wording such as he used is dangerous when teaching a child on a serious matter. As a Parent you can't be vague when you need to be specific with your expectations for the child when training up a child.
@@user-br3ou2cs9o Understood, but let me ask you this (keep in mind I'm not trying to start an argument but just genuinely asking): How do you know that when you tell your child (whether they are a kid or a teen) not to listen to certain music or an artist, that they will obey (understanding your explanation) versus listen to it when you're not looking 🤔?
@@CLDJ227 You can't watch over them 24/7 but God can. You can pray over them and let God hear you admitting that fact and that you want Him to take responsibility for what happens to the child as you do the part as a parent that God has given you to do during the times you are training up the child. Should you not teach them right from wrong because they could go out and do wrong anyway?🤔 You teach them right from wrong and set the proper expectations. They will do what they will do and it may take that proverbial school of hard knocks out in the world and 20+ years before they figure out you taught them the truth. That you did and do in fact love them even though it did not seem that way at the time of being taught right from wrong.
@@user-br3ou2cs9o Thanks for answering. While I do agree that if one is gonna forbid something that it's important to explain why. However, I do think that when kids (especially teens) are told not to do something that they may see as harmless such as listening to whatever music or artists, it can feel like just more rules to follow 🤔. Moreover, from my observation some kids raised that strictly may decide to do the opposite of everything they were told not to do when they are older and ready to get out the house. Therefore, I personally think that what the gentleman suggested about asking your kid (or probably more so your teen) why they may want to listen to something could be a better tactic. E.G. When asking that, you could then teach your child how to look for subtle messages, or look up the possible meaning of the song, or how to be discerning of the things they may entertain. It's possible that that could be met with a warmer reception, as opposed to them seeing it as some rule that they can easily find small ways to break 🤔. Caveat note: no on is telling you or others how to raise your kids or that there will not be times when certain things are off limits (such as smoking, drugs etc), it's just a suggestion that's worth considering or noting. Thanks if you read my thesis here lol. Have a blessed one.
We had our oldest son read the lyrics of his music to us. If he couldn’t we had opportunity to discuss why. Probably not a bad idea for Christian music now and such a great opportunity to teach Biblical truth in light of it.
What is a Christian school? Is it a school that has chapel every morning - or is it a school that does its appointed task (teaching people) Christianly (whether or not its teachers believe)?
When it comes to Christian music I always focus on the audience and ask this question: Are we just another demographic to be marketed to? Back in the day we faithfully took our children to Spirit West Coast and saw Alisa and Zoe Girl several times. I remember back then there was a lot of pressure to separate from secular music and CCM, which was the natural substitute and the industry became very lucrative because of it. But socially it never worked. I remember a dear friend who was awkwardly witnessing to his non- believing brother. He was describing a CCM band, which I will not name with, “They’re like a Christian U-2.”, to which brother replied, “Well then why don’t I just listen to U-2?”. It seems we Christians have to have our own celebrities, who we treat like royalty. It has never worked.
Interesting. The term “theological standard” implies the existence of a recognized objective doctrinal authority. Such an authority simply doesn’t exist in the Protestant world. The cry, “Scripture is my standard” doesn’t work because there is no objectively-recognized authority to resolve theological/doctrinal disputes. How do you resolve any of this authoritatively? I’d be very interested in a real conversation on the topic.
This video is much better "listened" to, rather than watched. What's up with all of the "B" roll? It takes away from an otherwise very good discussion. It's not just this channel, it's others as well. Is that a RUclips thing?
I used to write songs with established songwriters in nashville before I was saved. One of my co-writers wasn’t even Christian and was pitching songs to Christian publishers… I was confused by that even then but he made clear it’s just business. Now that I’m saved and have left a music career behind, I can see clearly that it is mostly just business and very rare to have authentic, true worship from a pure hearted Jesus follower who worships in spirit and in truth.
@@lancethefilmguy9392 less competition, and for specialty groups, less discernment. People are more willing to tolerate less quality and skill in a song that appeals to their special interest than general music. The "CCM" market is a pretty big one in America.
We do tremendous damage when we allow stereotypes and laziness convince us to assume that all Christian music MUST have words. And we do a different type of damage when we allow Christian music to be shoveled into those intentionally vague dual categories of 1. Traditional 2. Contemporary/Modern Jazz, Classical, Pop, Salsa, Calypso, Reggae ALL have phases that are easily called "traditional" and "modern." Those words do NOTHING to describe the styles to anyone except those who are quietly accepting the hidden interpretation that they resist voicing..... To say that traditional means hymns does nothing to describe this either.Hamster done in so many different ways from Appalachian churches, to black churches in north vs. in the south, to white country churches in the north and white country churches in the south. They do the same hymn, even at the same speed-and the STYLE is _completely different._
I don't have a home church because I am surrounded by "churches" that are not born-again Christ followers. I depend on an online church, but although the pastor teaches the entire Bible and is solid in his doctrine, I can no longer listen to the "worship" portion of the service. I mentioned one day in the live chat that I couldn't hear the voices of the 'worshippers' because the music was too loud but I was chastised by the other listeners for complaining, although I saw later that others in the comment section said the same thing. I sent an email to the office and have noticed they toned it down but there is also an issue of repeating the same line over and over again. I have tried to look past the repeat, repeat, repeat and just concentrate on my worship of the Lord but once a line is on the third repeat (it goes well past three), I end up stopping because I can't help but think that the Lord is not pleased by it. I don't know. I have felt for quite some time that something is off. It seems to have become more about the performance than worship. I thought maybe I would listen to the worship of a different church but continue to listen to the sermons from the one I listen to now but that is not realistic. I think I need to move on. I am so disappointed because it is hard to find a pastor who teaches verse by verse through the entire Bible. I won't settle for anything else. I want all of God's Word.
You know, as I read what I wrote about stopping after the third repeat, it hit me that this issue has really hampered my worship of the Lord. It is time to put my worship of the Lord first and since that seems to mean I have to move on, then that is what I have to do.
In 2018, I moved to a new town in a new country. No choice of churches, only the choice 'go or don't go'. I went, I was warmly received, the music was all new to me although quite ancient. Over three years, that Church teaches the whole Bible, albeit in French, so I read it in English before the service and do my best to follow the homily. How did I find the Church? Easy, big building with a spire and a door that is open. During the regulations for the epidemic, we were almost forced into being an online Church but that just does not satisfy, better than nothing, but far from complete. I don't know what churches operate near you, but unless Christ is front and centre in the church, avoid it. If the pastor drives the most expensive car in the car park, avoid it. If the church is named after the pastor's human family, avoid it.
Even if it's theologically accurate or at least not OVERTLY heretical, It probably still isn't appropriate for CORPORATE worship. Corporate worship is ONE day per week, the Lord's day, where his BRIDE, in one voice, gives praise as an offering. Corporate worship is something that is participatory. Call and response. Sing in rounds. Everyone plays a part in creating a fragrant offering to the Lord.....modern worship music is NOT intended to do this. It is INTENDED to be PERFORMED as a consumer product. "Listen to this talented person, let it stir an emotional reaction within YOU. Turn inward, focus on YOUR emotional state, Sway quietly, humm along...or sing along if you want (but we've made sure the people at home only hear the performers)" You can sing along but you actually are not involved in the worship at all. Today's music is fine for listening while you do the dishes but not fit for a corporate setting.
I always say if you listen to the song and it can be a love song for your boy or girl friend OR for Jesus, it's not Christian. If anywhere in the lyrics it makes it sound like God needed you to be a partner with Him, run.
I was listening to an Israel houghton album. The songs alternate between worship and prosperity themes. One sings about the greatness of the lord, the next one about “lift the limits, remove the boundaries, I am blessed, …” Christianity is NOT about “… more more more…” but about the centrality of the gospel which is Jesus Christ.
I agree most of the CCM industry is gone deeply in error and even up to heresies at times. Its really disheartening. And I'd also agree with the thought that its not really the genre of music but rather the message/intension. For example there's a CCM band named Kutless and they are theologically sound, even made covers of older hymns and they're a rock band. Theres more people who are faithful and want to honor God with their music, but its also true there's lots of ppl who are not, its all about self and feelings, asif you went to a secular therapist. We have to discern the message and heart of each song. You may have a good artist with one song thats bad,so still check whats being sang. And we need to pray for our brothers and sisters in music for faithfulness and strenght in the face of the temptation and pressure out there and also for the ppl who are merely using Christianity as a label on their own agenda that they may truly come to Christ
As to the bands in service they are too loud and become the center of attention. Hearing God's children praise and Worship him is a beautiful thing to experience and what we will witness in Heaven. I have seen numerous videos of the lead singer and band quieting down as the stadium/venue start singing together and it is awesome.
Just as an aside, you should hear (yeah, I know they're really old school) The Statler Brothers sing "Amazing Grace" and "How Great Thou Art". The latter song, especially. That's my favorite rendition ever.
I think a big factor in all of this is does the person on stage want attention or do they want to give Christ the attention? Are they on stage because they want to be on stage or are they on stage because God called them to be there? How do they dress? Are they trying to get attention or are they truly glorifying Christ with a pure heart? Also, God has been waking me up to the hidden occult symbolism and unfortunately there are several Christian/Worship bands/individuals with occult symbolism on their cd albums and such. Or some of them just have pictures that look depressing, not uplifting and life giving. I am not perfect so I have no judgement, but my heart breaks for all affected by the spiritual complications of all these things. Prayers for all parties to wake up and turn more fully to Christ our King! Now about the Taylor Swift thing, you don't even need to go as far as reading the lyrics to say it's sexually impure, the cd album cover says it all, but yes I agree.
I wish the church still provided for itself like they did in the days of old. So much would be done for God and not necessarily for 'provision'. Perhaps some people are poor, only to be judged by well off christians for 'selling their souls'. Dont get me wrong. Some of the time, the real problem is poverty. And of course theres nuances and other cases, but this is worthy of being raised as a point. As a former independant musician, I can tell you now, not all intention is to 'sell' and get plays, but this is all you have to make a living...and we dont all trust God the same; Some have the faith to not live on bread alone. And I did struggle with the whole thing, am I even to sell music inorder to eat? Shouldnt I just be worshipping God...but this is my gift, should I sing RnB instead? Wasnt I given this gift to live off of it? But back to my initial point: If the church was still selling their property to ensure their neighbour had a room in a smaller house, a lot of today's problems would be none existent (in the body of Christ at least). With love from South Africa.
I have felt concerned about worship music for a while. It seems like a lot of songs are focused on self. Acknowledgment is given to God for what he has done for the person singing but there’s a lot of me focus. I have seen many videos posted about concerns over “Christian” content but felt I would drive myself crazy and avoided those videos. Then the Babylon Bee had a satirical article about how to tell when your pastor’s salary is too high. They featured a picture of an unnamed pastor wearing a $2000 pink sweater to preach on Easter. A quick google search gave me a name and lots of information about the pastor and his church, which also provides a lot of the worship music that is popular in churches right now. Concerning theology and a lack of integrity with personal finances were apparent. I began to hear more about Bethel and the NAR. My pastor was on staff at a Bethel church and says things that really concern me, though his sermons seem biblically sound. I have been in the Assembly of God for almost 25 years and have trusted our pastors. I do really like our current pastor but I’m concerned about being led in the wrong direction. I keep asking the Holy Spirit to give me discernment concerning music, teaching, books, and anything that is labeled as Christian. I remember when I used to be so happy to meet a fellow believer. Now I think, “What does it mean to you when you say you are a Christian?” Thank you for keeping us informed about what is going on. I really appreciate your books and podcasts as well as public appearances.
Couldn’t agree more! The state of ‘worship’ music is very man-centered lyrically and people, surprise surprise, love it. From Mass to Florida along the coast, along the Gulf Coast states at least, the trash of Bethel & Bethel-like modern ‘worship’ songs with the influence of Aimee Semple McPherson’s Charismatic, high-energy, self-centered band music is everywhere. It has been a struggle to get believers at churches across the states to start listening to what their music teams are singing to realize how much heresy &/or blasphemy is in the lyrics of otherwise decent to good songs.
Music is complicated because it’s not just about the words/lyrics, but I will say it should be hard for a Christian to enjoy any music that has lyrics that glorify sin.
I've noticed this also, especially when i was on the praise and worship team for 12 years. There is so- called "christian" music and then there is Praise and Worship. They are not the same. One glorifies God and the other focuses on self. Music and be very addictive and deceptive. It can have a good beat and rhythm, but lead you down the wrong path. God gave us discernment, use it.
So whats a list of bands and artists to stay away from? Everyone keeps saying there are a lot of bad christian songs and bands but which ones? Just curious for some opinions, thanks.
I'm always led by the Spirit with this. You'll likely feel a good check in your spirit for those you should stay away from. I feel this a lot even without hearing their actual music & always learn later why
Worship is not chasing an emotion. It's not about getting my personal fix. As a worship pastor I can tell you, people don't really want to deal with these issues. They want K-Love without having to think.
I'm not a music person....couldn't really care less about it. From time to time over the years, I've heard contemporary songs in church where I've thought, "That's not theologically sound". I think too many churches as too heavy on music and too light on foundational teaching.
I have yet to meet a person who says he could care less about music who drives around with the radio in the car off every single day, or who attends plays that have no music, or who does not complain if the high school football team has no band there at the game, no music to introduce the players, etc. Even if you limited the conversation to church, I know very few of those people who would be content to hear a sermon, and then have an altar call with no music. Or a funeral with no music
I'm favoured only God knows how much I praise Him, $230k every 4weeks! I now have a big mansion and can now afford anything and also support God’s work and the church.
Only God knows how much grateful i am. After so much struggles I now own a new house and my family is happy once again everything is finally falling into place!!
I started pretty low, though, $5000 thereabouts. The return came massive. Joey is in school doing well, telling me of new friends he's meeting in school. Thank you Susan Christy, you're a miracle.
Excellent points. If I may extend, it's not simply asking why they're listening to certain music. It's sometimes also why they want to play certain games. Why they want to do something. Unfortunately, the most common answer today is either because it's fun(which is very vague) or because they like it or want to. Ask them what fun means, and they likely won't have much of an answer other than something like it makes them happy or it feels good. Which are very shallow.
It doesn't have to be either CCM or hymns. There are groups doing theologically rich songs that are modern and worshipful. CityAlight, Keith & Kristyn Getty, Sovereign Grace, to name a few.
"Why do you want to listen to this?" and focusing only on the lyrics is ... a massive misunderstanding on why many people listen to something like Taylor Swift. Some people - maybe "many" people, listen to the music for the words - but a great many people listen to music for the vibe, the instrumetnation, the way the drop makes them feel, and may not even hear the lyrics. So yes, be discerning about lyrics, but also don't assume that lyrics are the only point of a song, and understand that the lyrics might not be what someone is even taking away from a song.
As much as I can agree with that statement applying to “some”percentage of people who say they’re “Christians”…it’s a ridiculous idea or claim to think it applies to all those Christians that listen to it!… Seems to be a lazy generalization… 1st- most people if not all people get some type of an emotion from any/all music… 2nd-it’s not necessarily wrong to have an emotional feeling when we listen to music!…
@@flight2k5yur flippant use of emotional is a bit concerning or maybe I’m misunderstanding you…so when singing amazing grace & you deeply ponder the meaning of that…you have no emotion?
In my experience, Christians tend to judge more strictly songs written by non-Christians and give songs written by Christians the benefit of the doubt and lower their discernment. When it comes to non-Christians songs, many Christians actively listen and even take the time to check the lyrics or the worldview of artist; they presume the artist wrong until proven right; they attempt to find anything and everything that is theologically wrong with the lyrics and/or artist. But, when it comes to Christians songs, many Christians passively listen and do not take the time to check the lyrics or the worldview of artist; they tend to have a willfully ignorance or plausible deniability; they agree with ideas that fit their theological preconceptions (even the ones not supported by Scripture); they automatically favor these songs because the artist “belongs to their group”; they attempt to rationalize the song lyrics and the artist (they may even conclude the song and artist are beyond criticism); they might take any criticism about the song or artist personally, as an attack upon their own beliefs or even Christianity itself; they may ignore theological issues present in the lyrics; they might even have questions or doubts about the lyrics/artist but may feel uncomfortable with criticizing the song/artist; they may allow themselves to be excessively influenced by the context and delivery of the song; and finally, many Christians allow their personal commitment to and favoritism of the artist to influence their judgment of them.
South park had an episode where cartman took secular pop songs and randomly inserted "Jesus" throughout the lyrics then sold it as "Christian music." That's what i feel like with a lot of CCM. Give me some 19th century hymns.
The Simpsons had something similar. A leading singer of a Christian band said that (I think I recall this correctly) when they perform for non-Christians, they just replace "Jesus" with "Baby".
I attended a church in the 1970s that literally sang "My Sweet Lord" as a chorus. You know, the song praising Hindu gods by George Harrison. "Worship leaders" need discernment and wisdom too, not just enthusiasm and musical talent.
At times you've gotta wonder let's take CCM and I know there just musicians not preachers or teachers but when is the last time anyone in that camp has spoke against secular music? On the contrary they tell you how much they love it and how it was there inspiration. Wo do you knowing CCM who has wver took a stand against wordly living including dress movies music culture etc ? None that I can think of and again there almost an embracing of it now even including homosexual lifestyles . Ask or sometimes that just tell you what do they listen to musically it will almost always be secular music the dress the style of there music almost like there emulating or trying to duplicate there favorite singer or band and repackage it in a more Christian veneer
God have me a high level of discerment. This video is literally 40 years too late. I almost moved to Nashville in 1989. God put a Christian songwriter literally in front of me. Talking with her and listening to her story of having to rewrite her Christian songs to be more generic and inclusive were stunning. I took note and moved in a new direction. Thank you, God. Thanks for making me listen. It has only gotten worse. I have no interest in the modern church and its divergence from the actual gospel.
This stuff isn't new though. There's been "Jesus is my boyfriend" Music since the late 1800s and it was in the late 80s when record labels recognized that there was big money in pumping out vaguely spiritual songs with a few Bible verses in them.
Where does the spirit of a song derive? From the song itself? From the performer? From the listener? Some combination of these elements? Is truth produced or revealed? Can Satan ever be truthful or just merely factual? How does culture and expectation alter perception and reception? Does "to the pure all things are pure" mean we put more emphasis on input or output?
My friends and I formed a Christian pop punk band and before every practice or jam we pray and worship. And we always say the same thing “Lord, if Faithful Riot touches one soul or one million we will still serve you.” Basically we want God to have his way instead of us having our way. We only have 2 songs out, one of which is a cover but our first album is almost done. Anyways hope that helped and God bless. -Sammy Thompson Bass player for Faithful Riot
I think we need to also consider that music is not the lyrics, it is the sound. The music and lyrics form a song. But also consider what secular music is like these days, and compare with Christian music. And not all people in one group, Hillsong, for example are the same. The writers are different and some songs are better than others. Some Hillsong songs I absolutely love, like King of Kings, What a beautiful name it is, and some I won't listen to because they seem more shallow. It doesn't mean the writes are heathen ungodly reprobates. I think we need to be careful. I mean, a lot of secular music glorifies openly death, violence, sex, drugs, and use profanity after profanity. No Christian songwriter is perfect. And a lot of song writers are young, 20s and 30s, who by virtue of age lack maturity. It's not like the Fanny Crosby's or Charles Wesley's who had so much Bible memorised and maturity over decades of writing. Also, if you read the Psalms there are long Psalms, and very short Psalms. Some are very repetitive and some are not. So for those who don't like repetitive choruses it may be preference. A song is not a sermon. Another issue is that the churches that get criticised like Bethel, Hillsong, Elevation etc are writing songs for the global church, whereas the groups that criticise are not writing songs. I go to a baptist church that sings the same songs as the local pentecostal church because the baptists by and large aren't writing songs. The Pentecostals are.
There is a lot that could be said about this topic but I would emphasize that believers should not be unequally yoked with unbelievers in this realm. There are too many ways to compromise.
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You can't do much better than bach. The 5th evangelist.
This approach should not only be taken for music, but for pastors, churches, books, pretty much anything "Christian".
Yes. And we have to remember it is all business as well as ministry when there is a charge for the product so discernment has to play a big part.
AMEN
200%
"just because something has a Christian label on it doesn't mean it's Christian."
Well said and good point. That would also apply to so-called "Christian" churches that have abandoned the Gospel but maintain the name "Christian" on their buildings.
My dog is named Christian. Yet he's not.
Yes and Amen!
@@diasporan4159 As far as you know.
I honestly cannot stand most “Christian music,” it’s cheesy and unrelatable. It all sounds the same too, very cookie cutter formulaic. Often you cannot tell if it’s a romantic song to a partner or a song to or about the Lord.
Wolfs in sheep’s clothing.
Got to beware of the ones who want to seek & destroy like a roaring tiger.
I KNEW IT!! I’ve been saying that a lot of the music on Christian radio doesn’t seem very worshipful anymore. I first noticed it it about a decade ago. The music is all “me me me”.
Define, "me, me, me." That singer might be singing about the effects and the outcome of what Jesus has done "for them." You see, this is why it is important to ask the question, "what do you mean by that," because anything can be interpreted a million different ways.
@ That’s wonderful that Jesus has worked in their lives-truly. But worship is distinct from gratitude for what God has done for us; it’s about honoring who He is. Worship calls us to remove ourselves from the equation, placing God alone at the center. It shifts our focus from ourselves and our experiences to a place of reverence, adoration, and awe for His character. Worship is directed to God because He alone is worthy, not for what He has done, but for who He is-holy, sovereign, and eternally good.
I really love old hymns. ❤
I do also…. Just be aware though, even some of them have biblical or theological errors. For instance: Amazing grace - “the earth will soon dissolve like snow” no scripture to support when you read Revelation
I still love amazing grace as the title explains its theme of the song… biblical literacy was never meant to be this low
I do too, but its worth mentioning that there are some real stinkers in the past just like today, we have to be discerning there as well.
@@christophertaylor9100it was far far fewer. Today vast majority of singers are not christian.
The ones that are thousands of years old?
As someone who's been involved in the Christian music scene I've seen first hand the musicians who have started out deeply invested in thier faith only to become no different than the world and deconstructed.
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. I John 2:19 ESV
Greed and vanity corrupt. Seeking such a position is spiritually dangerous. It's worth noting that Fanny Crosby, Jesse B. Pound, etc. wrote hymns for the entire church to sing together. They were not rockstar celebrity performers like we have today.
Thank-you for this. You know what bothers me most about the songs we sing in our church? How many of them are 'I'-centred. It's all about ME. 😐
Oddly, I find a lot of old gyms say I and modern worship say you. So I prefer modern because I can sing to God not about me.
@@Joe86465 it's true some old hymns have poor theology. Especially Christmas Carols! (Not sure why) eg: "Good King Wenceslas" Pure fiction! 😏
When my church started a contemporary service, while keeping our traditional service, I was confronted with this criticism. So, I took that Sunday's song list, and counted all the I's and me's and so on in both services. The I's and me's of the contemporary songs paled in comparison to the I's and me's in the traditional service that was mostly hymns. So, I looked at the context. The context of the words didn't help, it was still me centric. This is something I have periodically done throughout the years ... and it has held up. While the I's and me's are present, they are rarely about praising ourself and about us needing God ... us needing His help ... His healing ... His love. Or they are about our experience with God and what He has done for us. But, isn't that what worship is? It is us declaring how much worth we have for God. I can't sing about your needs, I can only sing about my needs. I can only sing about the worth and value God means to me. Worship is personal, thus the I's and me's.
@@MichaelDawson03 well, I commend you for your vigilance! And, yes, you're right, many old hymns are littered with references to the first person. It may be that our church is particularly prone to 'personal worship', but I prefer to see worship as a corporate act, and I'll often change the words to 'us' and 'we' as I sing.
Can you give examples of songs that are "me-centered"?
As someone who has been volunteering for the GMA Awards in Canada, I can attest to this problem. One must remember that getting a song known requires business savvy, and most of the time, this doesn't seem to be compatible with Christian values.
We artists must remember we are doing what we do for an audience of one.
Brothers and Sisters 💔🥹 please 🙏 pray for my son Billy, he’s currently suffering from bipolar depression, ocd, and anxiety.
Love you all in Christ Jesus and thank you so much, will pray for you all also.
Praying for Billy!
@@LeslieFlemons Thank you sister 🙏🩷✝️
@@Sumwhere-N-Between Prayers for Billy and you to endure and overcome in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.
@@festushaggen2563 Thank you so much brother! I don’t know how much more we can 😓 endure.
I’ve been begging for prayers lol but that’s how bad it is and God has always been faithful to give Billy some relief and peace.
God bless. 🙏
I have prayed for you and I'd like you to know that you're not alone. My youngest son is 35 and struggling with the same issues but I can tell you that through prayer our glorious father has begun a great work in him. I am seeing so many positive changes because our Lord has intervened. God bless you and your son and family. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙌🏻☝🏻
Amen. So true. These music are being brought into church through music seminars and conferences under "christian" name.
Our worship pastor in our previous church in FL was an incredible talent. He was signed to a label in Nashville and his music made it to Christian radio. He was opening for the biggest names in Christian music. He returned from one of his recording trips in Nashville so distraught. He was hanging out with several of the very big name Christian artists that he always admired, but they invited him to go partying at the clubs and bars that weekend. He gave it all up. He switched gears to pour into his family and his home church, and then started an incredible movement that unites dozens of churches to worship together. He and the other local worship leaders get together and write biblically sound music that is not created for radio, but for true worship.
That’s sad to hear
@@AG-cf4wn no, it's incredible to hear. A true disciple has discerned the truth and has left the bright lights of the world to follow Jesus in spirit and truth.
Thank you for that story, I found it very encouraging
I’m one of those that don’t very much like MODERN christian music.
It varies a lot. Some songs written in the last 25 years are great, have solid theology and really help us engage with God. Some are absolutely rubbish and have very superficial lyrics.
@@lesleynelson7708 Absolutely
It's not the style of music that matters - that is personal taste there are old songs that are both good and bad, just like modern ones. And music can connect and " speak Jesus" to people in a musical style that they relate to. Its what it communicates that matters. As Larry Norman used to sing " Why should the devil have all the good music?" and "Jesus is the rock and he rolled my blues away!" ( look it up if you want, it's a brilliant song)
If you can find it on a youtube search, there is a brilliant clip of him describing a discussion between him and his dad about this subject.
I agree
The religious leaders of the time didn't like very much Jesus.
I’m a musician who loves all genres and forms of music. Was a giant metal head and used to listen to so many things now that make my skin crawl, and as a Christian listen to anymore. Lyrics and words are powerful which is why I check every song I listen to now. I unfortunately will never have kids but if I did I’d be super watchful of what they listened to.
I used to be a big metal head when I was an atheist. Even early on in my Christian journey I was still a metal head. Now I can’t even listen to it, outside of Skillet, which is Christian. Even classic rock and pop (60’s, 70’s, 80’s) is draining to listen to. I’ve just given up most music altogether because I can feel the way the Holy Spirit is anguished when I listen to it.
@@Codycreek instrumentals FTW!!!
I too was a metal head.
The stuff that I did listen too now I think, how deaf I was to what was being said.
Reading the lyrics and listening to what’s being sung is a big part of what I listen to now.
That being said. I have a question. Have you heard of The Sowers?
New AI generated music. They’re up front saying it’s AI generated music. The song King of Kings. Right at 33 seconds into the song.
I hear something that sounds like it’s saying --- twice and then it changes. I repeat it over and over to make sure I didn’t hear it wrong. The lyrics they put up for the song doesn’t follow the song. And when I asked for an explanation of the song. I got was they don’t understand my question.
I left the word blank just because if you do listen to it then maybe you hear what I hear or it’s just me hearing it wrong.
I love "The Old Rugged Cross."
A lot of the songs in church are not ‘church’ songs, they’re not written for congregational singing, they are performance songs. They are fine to listen to outside the church but church worship should be written for people to sing, not the band to perform.
Definitely. I don't mind if people listen to or song lousy songs for their own entertainment, I like some really terrible songs too. But at worship, its another matter entirely and we have to make sure our preferences and emotional attachment does not bleed over into the church service.
I agree. The line has become very blurred, and now there's no longer any understanding of what congregational songs should even sound like.
Great time at the Worldview Apologetics Conference in Bellevue, Wa. Glad I was able to hear this discussion in person as well as sit in on Frank's (and others) classroom seminars that weekend.
I knew a Pastor who had children who listened to Christia hard rock band. The Pastor could not really understand the words being sung. So, he wondered if his kids could. He told them that he would allow them to listen to it, if they could tell him the words. They gave him the tape jacket, with the lyrics. Then, told him what each song was saying, as it played. Satisfied that is was, in fact, Christian. And, that his kids were getting the message. He allowed it.
There is also a problem with applause in church - in my local church the organist gets clapped and the service turns into a performance.
I feel like the clarification that needs to be made in these discussions is that: If a song is good musically, lyrically, spiritually, then its good. It doesn't pay much to regard where it came from. It's not suddenly bad because of the name attached to it.
Yes! Couldn’t agree more!
Sadly there are some songs that are super catchy but can have hidden meaning in them. We gotta be careful with that.
You HAVE to have a no compromise policy on music.
Its easy to "bop along"? To humm the melody? Its catchy and sticks in your mind?
Look at the text is there anything wrong with it? If yes, you got to cut it out of your playlist.
We cannot forget, satan was once who lead worship in gods presence.
@@Legendendear How exactly can you know what’s wrong with the lyrics to the song? Like what’s something you need to look out for?
@@LeslieFlemons
Essentially you have to let yourself be lead by the holy spirit, there is no one solution fit all.
@@Legendendear okay thanks.
Look into Kieth Green, The 2nd Chapter Of Acts for music that feeds into your walk.
Gee I thought I was the only one who remembers the second chapter of Acts. I picked up their music before they were even known on the music scene.
2 of my favorites. There is a Redeemer, O Lord you are beautiful, Humble Yourself, My redeemer (Annie Herring), To the King alone are great songs.
Still love Phil Keaggy. So very talented and as humble as can be.
@@SpaceCadet4Jesus I did too . That type really spoke to me during the late 70’s when We were “those Jesus people” and still does the same thing now. Thank you Jesus.
Is Full panel discussion available?
I agree heavily with what the gentleman at the end was saying. Instead of christian parents forbidding one form of music and allowing another.
Lets ask someone "why is one listening to this music?" I would add, " lets go over the message or point of the song, and what the artists intention possibly is" .
To me that's just a better and more nauanced approach, where as the other approach may play a part in young people rebelling sometimes 🤔.
@CLDJ227
Thank You! Am I the only one who remember Tipper Gore? YEAH That Worked Out Real Good! Instead of Christian music or (Shudder) Christian movies, Christians make Good music/movies?
BTW can we go back to when We were 14? When Mom & Dad told you You Can't Listen to That. What is the very 1st thing you did?
Religion is leaving the world, and Russia is the last stronghold of traditional Christian values.
Because the parents don't know either. They've been raised on this crap for over 40 years now.
@@stevenwiederholt7000 what's the first thing one did? Probably the exact opposite when their parents weren't paying attention lol.
Also, please elaborate on the Tipper Gore thing lol 🤔.
@@cepreupupkin2218 Is that really the case, that sounds a bit extreme 🤔?
Not everyone is what the say they are. I could claim to be anything I want right now but that wouldn't make it true.
The Bible warns us repeatedly to use wisdom and test all things by the word of God, to see if they are of God, so that we are not deceived.
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." I John 4:1
Always here with a message from the Lord. Thank you brother. All glory to God.
Our nephew just informed us that the music director at their church left recently and wasn’t even a believer. There’s a lot of pressure on churches to have hot sounding bands. The music has become what is called “moralistic therapeutic deism”.
Why can’t we sing the songs with theological truth, poetic beauty, musically excellent, and singable? We do in our parish but we choose to be discerning in our music. I lay the responsibility largely at the pastors’ feet. Lord have mercy!
I have not seen any Christian worship songs coming out of Bethel that promulgate the Nar theology. Most of them are absolutely right on solid the scripture based and could be sung in any traditionally historic Christian Church anywhere in the world. Have you got examples? My go-to example is the goodness of God by Jenn Johnson. Simply solidly based on Psalm 23
You are correct. Surely, every song, no matter the origin, must be held to the fire of God's Word?
It is wisdom to do this on a song by song, case by case basis.
This nonsense about Hillsong/Bethel/Elevation "are all evil", is just that.....nonsense!
Does this song/do these lyrics line up with the Truth of the Gospel....and do they glorify Jesus?
Agreed. It's so jarring to listen to folks sit on a panel and make blanket statements. We have to examine things on a case by case basis in light of scriptures.
I long for the day someone would say, I'm not informed enough to have an opinion on the subject. This constant policing by people who most of the time don't know what they're talking about is a turn off. And don't get me started on the boogeyman "NAR"
@@barrywilkins1042the concern about these top producers is generally the heresy from the pulpit and various scandals.
Bethel is absolutely wacked. The music is good.
This is why I sing in the choir to support my church's traditional service with organ and orchestra. My church also has a Modern Worship service, and I know there are a number of people who arrive late so they can skip most of the music and just see the sermon.
I am one of those people who intentionally arrives late, to miss the music.
"Traditional" means hymns, but 99 times out of 100, they are going to be done in a pseudo COUNTRY style, which DRAINS me.
"Modern" means rock-which DRAINS me.
Notice that I said nothing about the WORDS. It is EASY to find substantive and godly lyrics in ANY style, which provoke true worship. But I have seen few things that churches are more rigid and willfully/stubbornly ignorant about, than _music._ That results in many people being continually left out, unless they surrender to that one or two styles that the particular church is willing to let through.
Those are just some of the reasons why I am no longer a worship leader, and usually do not mention to churches that I play an instrument.
I have considered doing that.
My family waits to enter until after the music because it is so very loud. It literally hurts the ears of my daughter and husband. I can take it, but it's still not pleasant. As for theologically, even my high schooler points out when the songs are off. Luckily at our church that's not often.
I refuse to go to a “worship service” that uses CCM, Elevated, Bethel, Hillsong ANYMORE! No more bong bong bong.
Hymns for me from now on.
Thank you Cross Examined.
Where is the source for this clip? I need to see the whole discussion. What channel did it originally appear on?
It’s important to recognize that all truth is God’s truth, meaning that even if a church whose pastor or affiliated organization doesn’t stand for Biblical truths or even propagates heretical doctrine, doesn’t mean that the church’s songwriters can’t write songs that agree and even illuminate scripture. I believe it’s important to be discerning and to judge every lyric by the Word of God and even if I hear a song from individuals who I might not fully agree with theologically, and it aligns with scripture, then I’ll wholeheartedly say amen to the song. It takes a mature Christian to “eat the meat, spit out the bones”. I also believe that worship leaders have a tremendous responsibility to ensure the songs we sing in church are edifying to the Body of Christ through and through. What we enjoy personally is not always expedient or profitable for the church like we think it might be.
@CrossExamined - Can you post the link to the full video?
It seems simple to me really, churches should be more discerning about what music they use for worship, and we need to be more discerning about whether what we listen to is secular or Christian. We shouldn't be expecting the world of CCM to do the discerning for us
I like all genres of music. But if I go to a church I like to sing the old hymns. The modern stuff doesn't compare.
Thank you for this VERY relevant discussion!! CCM & the influence (negatively so), is a massive concern and actually our "alarms" should be going off !
Thankfully, she mentioned that there are Christian artists with integrity as well. Many say avoid it all. I have heard some Biblically driven bands.
It is the Holy Spirit that helps us descern. We should realy rely on the Spirit.
@@SGOV86 Agreed.
Who?
@@grantorino2009 Wolves at the Gate, A Secret Ending, and Lambs and Lions are a few.
@@SGOV86 ....can you even show the holy spirit to even exist?
This isn’t about whether you should listen to Christian or secular music or what artists to listen to, this is about discernment and relying on the Holy Spirit to guide you. There is great music made by non-Christians that speak truth as well as Christians who make “secular” music that speaks truth. There are also songs that are labeled “Christian” that do not reflect the heart of God. Listen to music and appreciate its good qualities and ask the Holy Spirit for guidance as you listen.
Where can we hear this entire podcast?
Full video of the conference??
It should be said. Christianity isn't a "don't do list".
Real Christianity is not about what your missing.. but real Christianity is about finding what is "real" or "worthy".
If you want to be stuck in kindergarden for the rest of your life.. then follow the world's path.
Mostly you're right. But real Christianity is actually Christ In. Phil. 2 9-11
Partly Christianity is also a "don't do list" because for example if we read Eph. 4 Paul states some things we should not do (anymore). Althought that is not the main thing.
@@SGOV86 First we love Christ, then we bear fruit. 'Do's and don't's' are fruit. 🙂
@@rachelm7525 exactly.
Jeremy Camp is still solid!
Sorry typo
What do you mean by "sold" ?
Theres lots of good ones, just got to look.
@@SilkyAnteater.Probably Solid typo
@@HiThereHeyThere oh . Yea maybe. Thanks, it made sense now
Casting crowns as well
Don't judge me, thank the Lord, praise Him and sing with joy!!
The recent collab between Maverick City Music and Kirk Franklin with rapper GloRilla have proved this to be exactly true. It’s just a business and they want to get their songs and brand in front of people at the cost of truth and goodness. There are so many faithful groups out there putting out theologically rich worship music, yet for some reason the church can’t move away from Hillsong, Bethel, Elevation, Mav City, Brandon Lake, etc.
Such as
Sovereign Grace Music and City Alight have wonderful worship music. The Getty’s, Matt Boswell & Matt Papa, Shane & Shane hymns albums, Emu Music, Nathan Drake.
We (parents, worship leaders, teachers, etc) must always listen to the words and be selective. But I also believe God can and does use anything for His purposes, even music which might not intentionally glorify Him. He is drawing all people to Himself. This is but one way, one step closer for those who seek Him. It is not the end.
A modern day marketplace? What did Yeshua/Jesus have to say about His house being turned into a marketplace?
Brother, if I'm the parent I will say to my child(ren) you won't be listening to that in this home and this is why. Then explain in a way that is comprehendable for them.
"If a child is trained up in the way they should go, even when the child is old they will not be turned away from it."
Proverbs 22:6
Amen✝️🕊️
@@user-br3ou2cs9o I'm pretty sure that's what the brother at the end was getting at lol.
@@CLDJ227
Listen carefully shortly after the 4:00 minute timestamp to his words. He makes a wishy-washy statement concerning the Parent Telling The Child that they will Not Listen to a particular song or type of music. He says The Parent doesn't necessarily have to do that, I believe the Parent does. He said The Parent should Ask The Child why they want to listen to it versus The Parent Telling The Child that they will not be listening to that garbage in this home and here is why, which was my comment and the reason I made the comment.
Words are important. Improperly nuanced, wishy-washy, room to squirm wording such as he used is dangerous when teaching a child on a serious matter. As a Parent you can't be vague when you need to be specific with your expectations for the child when training up a child.
@@user-br3ou2cs9o Understood, but let me ask you this (keep in mind I'm not trying to start an argument but just genuinely asking):
How do you know that when you tell your child (whether they are a kid or a teen) not to listen to certain music or an artist, that they will obey (understanding your explanation) versus listen to it when you're not looking 🤔?
@@CLDJ227
You can't watch over them 24/7 but God can. You can pray over them and let God hear you admitting that fact and that you want Him to take responsibility for what happens to the child as you do the part as a parent that God has given you to do during the times you are training up the child.
Should you not teach them right from wrong because they could go out and do wrong anyway?🤔
You teach them right from wrong and set the proper expectations. They will do what they will do and it may take that proverbial school of hard knocks out in the world and 20+ years before they figure out you taught them the truth. That you did and do in fact love them even though it did not seem that way at the time of being taught right from wrong.
@@user-br3ou2cs9o Thanks for answering.
While I do agree that if one is gonna forbid something that it's important to explain why. However, I do think that when kids (especially teens) are told not to do something that they may see as harmless such as listening to whatever music or artists, it can feel like just more rules to follow 🤔.
Moreover, from my observation some kids raised that strictly may decide to do the opposite of everything they were told not to do when they are older and ready to get out the house. Therefore, I personally think that what the gentleman suggested about asking your kid (or probably more so your teen) why they may want to listen to something could be a better tactic.
E.G. When asking that, you could then teach your child how to look for subtle messages, or look up the possible meaning of the song, or how to be discerning of the things they may entertain.
It's possible that that could be met with a warmer reception, as opposed to them seeing it as some rule that they can easily find small ways to break 🤔.
Caveat note: no on is telling you or others how to raise your kids or that there will not be times when certain things are off limits (such as smoking, drugs etc), it's just a suggestion that's worth considering or noting.
Thanks if you read my thesis here lol. Have a blessed one.
I like hymns in my church and my rock & roll on the radio.
What conference is this?
Which event was this ? Where can I find the complete panel discussion?
Hillsong. Bethel. Bill Johnson. Steven Furtick. Dangerous. Insidious.
We had our oldest son read the lyrics of his music to us. If he couldn’t we had opportunity to discuss why. Probably not a bad idea for Christian music now and such a great opportunity to teach Biblical truth in light of it.
What about when Hill songs perform hymns like How Great thou Art? Is that still wrong? Just wondering. I love the old hyms ❤
I don't think Satan could sing How Great Thou Art. If Hillsong was just saying the words without meaning, the meaning will still be edifying.
@@toomanyhobbies2011Satan recited scripture when he tempted Jesus. What’s to stop him from singing a hymn? Just saying…
What is a Christian school? Is it a school that has chapel every morning - or is it a school that does its appointed task (teaching people) Christianly (whether or not its teachers believe)?
When it comes to Christian music I always focus on the audience and ask this question: Are we just another demographic to be marketed to? Back in the day we faithfully took our children to Spirit West Coast and saw Alisa and Zoe Girl several times. I remember back then there was a lot of pressure to separate from secular music and CCM, which was the natural substitute and the industry became very lucrative because of it. But socially it never worked. I remember a dear friend who was awkwardly witnessing to his non- believing brother. He was describing a CCM band, which I will not name with, “They’re like a Christian U-2.”, to which brother replied, “Well then why don’t I just listen to U-2?”. It seems we Christians have to have our own celebrities, who we treat like royalty. It has never worked.
@@paulj.ingram2839 so what should we do instead concerning musik
Isn’t Bono a Christian ?
Anberlin?
Interesting. The term “theological standard” implies the existence of a recognized objective doctrinal authority. Such an authority simply doesn’t exist in the Protestant world. The cry, “Scripture is my standard” doesn’t work because there is no objectively-recognized authority to resolve theological/doctrinal disputes.
How do you resolve any of this authoritatively? I’d be very interested in a real conversation on the topic.
This video is much better "listened" to, rather than watched. What's up with all of the "B" roll? It takes away from an otherwise very good discussion. It's not just this channel, it's others as well. Is that a RUclips thing?
I used to write songs with established songwriters in nashville before I was saved. One of my co-writers wasn’t even Christian and was pitching songs to Christian publishers… I was confused by that even then but he made clear it’s just business. Now that I’m saved and have left a music career behind, I can see clearly that it is mostly just business and very rare to have authentic, true worship from a pure hearted Jesus follower who worships in spirit and in truth.
Yeah there's real money in writing catchy jingles for Christians to chant in church
@@christophertaylor9100I doubt that. Wouldn't there be more money in non Christian songs?
@@lancethefilmguy9392 less competition, and for specialty groups, less discernment. People are more willing to tolerate less quality and skill in a song that appeals to their special interest than general music. The "CCM" market is a pretty big one in America.
We do tremendous damage when we allow stereotypes and laziness convince us to assume that all Christian music MUST have words.
And we do a different type of damage when we allow Christian music to be shoveled into those intentionally vague dual categories of
1. Traditional
2. Contemporary/Modern
Jazz, Classical, Pop, Salsa, Calypso, Reggae ALL have phases that are easily called "traditional" and "modern." Those words do NOTHING to describe the styles to anyone except those who are quietly accepting the hidden interpretation that they resist voicing.....
To say that traditional means hymns does nothing to describe this either.Hamster done in so many different ways from Appalachian churches, to black churches in north vs. in the south, to white country churches in the north and white country churches in the south. They do the same hymn, even at the same speed-and the STYLE is _completely different._
On the topic of music, why is it deemed necessary to play some ambiguous background "notes" on this video.?
I don't have a home church because I am surrounded by "churches" that are not born-again Christ followers.
I depend on an online church, but although the pastor teaches the entire Bible and is solid in his doctrine, I can no longer listen to the "worship" portion of the service. I mentioned one day in the live chat that I couldn't hear the voices of the 'worshippers' because the music was too loud but I was chastised by the other listeners for complaining, although I saw later that others in the comment section said the same thing. I sent an email to the office and have noticed they toned it down but there is also an issue of repeating the same line over and over again.
I have tried to look past the repeat, repeat, repeat and just concentrate on my worship of the Lord but once a line is on the third repeat (it goes well past three), I end up stopping because I can't help but think that the Lord is not pleased by it. I don't know. I have felt for quite some time that something is off. It seems to have become more about the performance than worship. I thought maybe I would listen to the worship of a different church but continue to listen to the sermons from the one I listen to now but that is not realistic. I think I need to move on. I am so disappointed because it is hard to find a pastor who teaches verse by verse through the entire Bible. I won't settle for anything else. I want all of God's Word.
You know, as I read what I wrote about stopping after the third repeat, it hit me that this issue has really hampered my worship of the Lord. It is time to put my worship of the Lord first and since that seems to mean I have to move on, then that is what I have to do.
Yeah, is it "vain repitition?" 🤔
In 2018, I moved to a new town in a new country. No choice of churches, only the choice 'go or don't go'. I went, I was warmly received, the music was all new to me although quite ancient. Over three years, that Church teaches the whole Bible, albeit in French, so I read it in English before the service and do my best to follow the homily. How did I find the Church? Easy, big building with a spire and a door that is open.
During the regulations for the epidemic, we were almost forced into being an online Church but that just does not satisfy, better than nothing, but far from complete.
I don't know what churches operate near you, but unless Christ is front and centre in the church, avoid it. If the pastor drives the most expensive car in the car park, avoid it. If the church is named after the pastor's human family, avoid it.
@@rachelm7525 Matthew six seven. Being like heathens. Yes, maybe. BTW, if I use the typical way we write a verse reference, my comments go bye bye.
@@wendy6781 interesting...🤔
Even if it's theologically accurate or at least not OVERTLY heretical, It probably still isn't appropriate for CORPORATE worship. Corporate worship is ONE day per week, the Lord's day, where his BRIDE, in one voice, gives praise as an offering. Corporate worship is something that is participatory. Call and response. Sing in rounds. Everyone plays a part in creating a fragrant offering to the Lord.....modern worship music is NOT intended to do this. It is INTENDED to be PERFORMED as a consumer product. "Listen to this talented person, let it stir an emotional reaction within YOU. Turn inward, focus on YOUR emotional state, Sway quietly, humm along...or sing along if you want (but we've made sure the people at home only hear the performers)" You can sing along but you actually are not involved in the worship at all. Today's music is fine for listening while you do the dishes but not fit for a corporate setting.
I’ve noticed a big difference in lyrics between the hymns and modern worship music
I always say if you listen to the song and it can be a love song for your boy or girl friend OR for Jesus, it's not Christian. If anywhere in the lyrics it makes it sound like God needed you to be a partner with Him, run.
I was listening to an Israel houghton album.
The songs alternate between worship and prosperity themes.
One sings about the greatness of the lord, the next one about “lift the limits, remove the boundaries, I am blessed, …”
Christianity is NOT about “… more more more…” but about the centrality of the gospel which is Jesus Christ.
I'm pretty sure he was the "worship" leader at Joel Osteen's church, which would explain a lot.
She’s partially right . I live in Nashville and I am a songwriter. There are a lot of theologically sound songwriters here. It’s not all business.
I agree most of the CCM industry is gone deeply in error and even up to heresies at times. Its really disheartening. And I'd also agree with the thought that its not really the genre of music but rather the message/intension. For example there's a CCM band named Kutless and they are theologically sound, even made covers of older hymns and they're a rock band. Theres more people who are faithful and want to honor God with their music, but its also true there's lots of ppl who are not, its all about self and feelings, asif you went to a secular therapist. We have to discern the message and heart of each song. You may have a good artist with one song thats bad,so still check whats being sang.
And we need to pray for our brothers and sisters in music for faithfulness and strenght in the face of the temptation and pressure out there and also for the ppl who are merely using Christianity as a label on their own agenda that they may truly come to Christ
As to the bands in service they are too loud and become the center of attention. Hearing God's children praise and Worship him is a beautiful thing to experience and what we will witness in Heaven. I have seen numerous videos of the lead singer and band quieting down as the stadium/venue start singing together and it is awesome.
Just as an aside, you should hear (yeah, I know they're really old school) The Statler Brothers sing "Amazing Grace" and "How Great Thou Art". The latter song, especially. That's my favorite rendition ever.
Who would you say are the exceptions, then? What groups are spirtually and biblically sound?
I think a big factor in all of this is does the person on stage want attention or do they want to give Christ the attention? Are they on stage because they want to be on stage or are they on stage because God called them to be there? How do they dress? Are they trying to get attention or are they truly glorifying Christ with a pure heart? Also, God has been waking me up to the hidden occult symbolism and unfortunately there are several Christian/Worship bands/individuals with occult symbolism on their cd albums and such. Or some of them just have pictures that look depressing, not uplifting and life giving. I am not perfect so I have no judgement, but my heart breaks for all affected by the spiritual complications of all these things. Prayers for all parties to wake up and turn more fully to Christ our King! Now about the Taylor Swift thing, you don't even need to go as far as reading the lyrics to say it's sexually impure, the cd album cover says it all, but yes I agree.
I wish the church still provided for itself like they did in the days of old. So much would be done for God and not necessarily for 'provision'. Perhaps some people are poor, only to be judged by well off christians for 'selling their souls'. Dont get me wrong. Some of the time, the real problem is poverty. And of course theres nuances and other cases, but this is worthy of being raised as a point.
As a former independant musician, I can tell you now, not all intention is to 'sell' and get plays, but this is all you have to make a living...and we dont all trust God the same; Some have the faith to not live on bread alone. And I did struggle with the whole thing, am I even to sell music inorder to eat? Shouldnt I just be worshipping God...but this is my gift, should I sing RnB instead? Wasnt I given this gift to live off of it? But back to my initial point: If the church was still selling their property to ensure their neighbour had a room in a smaller house, a lot of today's problems would be none existent (in the body of Christ at least).
With love from South Africa.
I have felt concerned about worship music for a while. It seems like a lot of songs are focused on self. Acknowledgment is given to God for what he has done for the person singing but there’s a lot of me focus. I have seen many videos posted about concerns over “Christian” content but felt I would drive myself crazy and avoided those videos. Then the Babylon Bee had a satirical article about how to tell when your pastor’s salary is too high. They featured a picture of an unnamed pastor wearing a $2000 pink sweater to preach on Easter. A quick google search gave me a name and lots of information about the pastor and his church, which also provides a lot of the worship music that is popular in churches right now. Concerning theology and a lack of integrity with personal finances were apparent. I began to hear more about Bethel and the NAR. My pastor was on staff at a Bethel church and says things that really concern me, though his sermons seem biblically sound. I have been in the Assembly of God for almost 25 years and have trusted our pastors. I do really like our current pastor but I’m concerned about being led in the wrong direction. I keep asking the Holy Spirit to give me discernment concerning music, teaching, books, and anything that is labeled as Christian. I remember when I used to be so happy to meet a fellow believer. Now I think, “What does it mean to you when you say you are a Christian?” Thank you for keeping us informed about what is going on. I really appreciate your books and podcasts as well as public appearances.
So well said!!
Couldn’t agree more! The state of ‘worship’ music is very man-centered lyrically and people, surprise surprise, love it. From Mass to Florida along the coast, along the Gulf Coast states at least, the trash of Bethel & Bethel-like modern ‘worship’ songs with the influence of Aimee Semple McPherson’s Charismatic, high-energy, self-centered band music is everywhere. It has been a struggle to get believers at churches across the states to start listening to what their music teams are singing to realize how much heresy &/or blasphemy is in the lyrics of otherwise decent to good songs.
Music is complicated because it’s not just about the words/lyrics, but I will say it should be hard for a Christian to enjoy any music that has lyrics that glorify sin.
I've noticed this also, especially when i was on the praise and worship team for 12 years. There is so- called "christian" music and then there is Praise and Worship. They are not the same. One glorifies God and the other focuses on self. Music and be very addictive and deceptive. It can have a good beat and rhythm, but lead you down the wrong path. God gave us discernment, use it.
What labels are behind referred to! Hillsong?
So whats a list of bands and artists to stay away from? Everyone keeps saying there are a lot of bad christian songs and bands but which ones? Just curious for some opinions, thanks.
I'm always led by the Spirit with this. You'll likely feel a good check in your spirit for those you should stay away from. I feel this a lot even without hearing their actual music & always learn later why
Worship is not chasing an emotion. It's not about getting my personal fix. As a worship pastor I can tell you, people don't really want to deal with these issues. They want K-Love without having to think.
THIS! 🙌
As a bass player of a Christian band I agree with this statement.
I'm not a music person....couldn't really care less about it. From time to time over the years, I've heard contemporary songs in church where I've thought, "That's not theologically sound". I think too many churches as too heavy on music and too light on foundational teaching.
I have yet to meet a person who says he could care less about music who drives around with the radio in the car off every single day, or who attends plays that have no music, or who does not complain if the high school football team has no band there at the game, no music to introduce the players, etc.
Even if you limited the conversation to church, I know very few of those people who would be content to hear a sermon, and then have an altar call with no music. Or a funeral with no music
@@hotice8885 Congratulations, you just met him. 😀
I'm favoured only God knows how much I praise Him, $230k every 4weeks! I now have a big mansion and can now afford anything and also support God’s work and the church.
Only God knows how much grateful i am. After so much struggles I now own a new house and my family is happy once again everything is finally falling into place!!
Wow that's huge, how do you make that much monthly?
I'm 37 and have been looking for ways to be successful, please how??
It's Ms. Susan Jane Christy doing, she's changed my life.
I started pretty low, though, $5000 thereabouts. The return came massive. Joey is in school doing well, telling me of new friends he's meeting in school. Thank you Susan Christy, you're a miracle.
What conference was this from?
Excellent points. If I may extend, it's not simply asking why they're listening to certain music. It's sometimes also why they want to play certain games. Why they want to do something. Unfortunately, the most common answer today is either because it's fun(which is very vague) or because they like it or want to. Ask them what fun means, and they likely won't have much of an answer other than something like it makes them happy or it feels good. Which are very shallow.
Doesn’t Childers platform Skillet’s John Cooper?
It doesn't have to be either CCM or hymns. There are groups doing theologically rich songs that are modern and worshipful. CityAlight, Keith & Kristyn Getty, Sovereign Grace, to name a few.
This is where Christian musicians can record their own music, and give/sell it to listeners, like they did in the early days of "Jesus music".
"Why do you want to listen to this?" and focusing only on the lyrics is ... a massive misunderstanding on why many people listen to something like Taylor Swift. Some people - maybe "many" people, listen to the music for the words - but a great many people listen to music for the vibe, the instrumetnation, the way the drop makes them feel, and may not even hear the lyrics.
So yes, be discerning about lyrics, but also don't assume that lyrics are the only point of a song, and understand that the lyrics might not be what someone is even taking away from a song.
Jesus lives! ♥️ and is Yahweh God 🙏🏻 Christ ✝️ and King 👑
The only reason people defend modern music is because they get an emotional feeling from it.
As much as I can agree with that statement applying to “some”percentage of people who say they’re “Christians”…it’s a ridiculous idea or claim to think it applies to all those Christians that listen to it!…
Seems to be a lazy generalization…
1st- most people if not all people get some type of an emotion from any/all music…
2nd-it’s not necessarily wrong to have an emotional feeling when we listen to music!…
@@Political-du8yd yes it is an issue to get emotional. That’s not worship
@@flight2k5yur flippant use of emotional is a bit concerning or maybe I’m misunderstanding you…so when singing amazing grace & you deeply ponder the meaning of that…you have no emotion?
@@Political-du8yd you think your Christianity is based on emotions and feelings
What is Church in the Bible? What is its roots in Greek. Good reference is the book “Pagan Christianity “.
In my experience, Christians tend to judge more strictly songs written by non-Christians and give songs written by Christians the benefit of the doubt and lower their discernment.
When it comes to non-Christians songs, many Christians actively listen and even take the time to check the lyrics or the worldview of artist; they presume the artist wrong until proven right; they attempt to find anything and everything that is theologically wrong with the lyrics and/or artist.
But, when it comes to Christians songs, many Christians passively listen and do not take the time to check the lyrics or the worldview of artist; they tend to have a willfully ignorance or plausible deniability; they agree with ideas that fit their theological preconceptions (even the ones not supported by Scripture); they automatically favor these songs because the artist “belongs to their group”; they attempt to rationalize the song lyrics and the artist (they may even conclude the song and artist are beyond criticism); they might take any criticism about the song or artist personally, as an attack upon their own beliefs or even Christianity itself; they may ignore theological issues present in the lyrics; they might even have questions or doubts about the lyrics/artist but may feel uncomfortable with criticizing the song/artist; they may allow themselves to be excessively influenced by the context and delivery of the song; and finally, many Christians allow their personal commitment to and favoritism of the artist to influence their judgment of them.
The reason we have this issue is because we live in the age of copyrighting.
South park had an episode where cartman took secular pop songs and randomly inserted "Jesus" throughout the lyrics then sold it as "Christian music." That's what i feel like with a lot of CCM. Give me some 19th century hymns.
😂😂 What else you learned from South Park?
The Simpsons had something similar. A leading singer of a Christian band said that (I think I recall this correctly) when they perform for non-Christians, they just replace "Jesus" with "Baby".
I attended a church in the 1970s that literally sang "My Sweet Lord" as a chorus. You know, the song praising Hindu gods by George Harrison. "Worship leaders" need discernment and wisdom too, not just enthusiasm and musical talent.
At times you've gotta wonder let's take CCM and I know there just musicians not preachers or teachers but when is the last time anyone in that camp has spoke against secular music? On the contrary they tell you how much they love it and how it was there inspiration. Wo do you knowing CCM who has wver took a stand against wordly living including dress movies music culture etc ? None that I can think of and again there almost an embracing of it now even including homosexual lifestyles . Ask or sometimes that just tell you what do they listen to musically it will almost always be secular music the dress the style of there music almost like there emulating or trying to duplicate there favorite singer or band and repackage it in a more Christian veneer
God have me a high level of discerment. This video is literally 40 years too late. I almost moved to Nashville in 1989. God put a Christian songwriter literally in front of me. Talking with her and listening to her story of having to rewrite her Christian songs to be more generic and inclusive were stunning. I took note and moved in a new direction. Thank you, God. Thanks for making me listen.
It has only gotten worse. I have no interest in the modern church and its divergence from the actual gospel.
This stuff isn't new though. There's been "Jesus is my boyfriend" Music since the late 1800s and it was in the late 80s when record labels recognized that there was big money in pumping out vaguely spiritual songs with a few Bible verses in them.
Where does the spirit of a song derive? From the song itself? From the performer? From the listener? Some combination of these elements? Is truth produced or revealed? Can Satan ever be truthful or just merely factual? How does culture and expectation alter perception and reception? Does "to the pure all things are pure" mean we put more emphasis on input or output?
My friends and I formed a Christian pop punk band and before every practice or jam we pray and worship. And we always say the same thing “Lord, if Faithful Riot touches one soul or one million we will still serve you.” Basically we want God to have his way instead of us having our way. We only have 2 songs out, one of which is a cover but our first album is almost done. Anyways hope that helped and God bless.
-Sammy Thompson
Bass player for Faithful Riot
She's spot on with this!!
I think we need to also consider that music is not the lyrics, it is the sound. The music and lyrics form a song. But also consider what secular music is like these days, and compare with Christian music. And not all people in one group, Hillsong, for example are the same. The writers are different and some songs are better than others. Some Hillsong songs I absolutely love, like King of Kings, What a beautiful name it is, and some I won't listen to because they seem more shallow. It doesn't mean the writes are heathen ungodly reprobates. I think we need to be careful. I mean, a lot of secular music glorifies openly death, violence, sex, drugs, and use profanity after profanity. No Christian songwriter is perfect. And a lot of song writers are young, 20s and 30s, who by virtue of age lack maturity. It's not like the Fanny Crosby's or Charles Wesley's who had so much Bible memorised and maturity over decades of writing. Also, if you read the Psalms there are long Psalms, and very short Psalms. Some are very repetitive and some are not. So for those who don't like repetitive choruses it may be preference. A song is not a sermon. Another issue is that the churches that get criticised like Bethel, Hillsong, Elevation etc are writing songs for the global church, whereas the groups that criticise are not writing songs. I go to a baptist church that sings the same songs as the local pentecostal church because the baptists by and large aren't writing songs. The Pentecostals are.
okay but the Wesleys were in their 20's and 30s when they were writing some of their songs.
"Music is not the lyrics; it is the SOUND."
*RIGHT!!!!*
I came to faith in the Jesus People movement and have many of those artists music still. Much very Biblical
There is a lot that could be said about this topic but I would emphasize that believers should not be unequally yoked with unbelievers in this realm. There are too many ways to compromise.