Is Provisionism the Same as Free Grace? - Part 2
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- Опубликовано: 13 май 2024
- Is Provisionism the Same as Free Grace? - Part 2
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Welcome to Grace in Focus radio/podcast. Today, Bob Wilkin and Ken Yates are continuing a discussion about Provisionism. What is it and how does it relate to Free Grace theology? What is Provisionism’s stated soteriological position? Can you have eternal security if you are a provisionist theologian? Bob and Ken have some answers and an interesting discussion for you concerning this subject ... Please listen!
Provisionism, Free Grace, Calvinism, Soteriology, Repentance, Faith, Security, Assurance, Perseverance.
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Brother Bob should sit down and have a conversation with Leighton,it would get a lot of views I would imagine
We still cannot say they are using the incorrect definition of repentance unless asking them.
Bob, Ken, myself, Sean, and everyone from Adam down till the consummation of all things, EVERYONE HAS REPENTED. YOU HAVE, I HAVE, ADAM HAS, KEN HAS, ETC. ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURAL DEFINITION. CHANGE OF MIND.
AGAIN YOU CANNOT JUDGE THEIR DOCTRINE UNTIL YOU HAVE THEM EXPLAIN TO YOU WHETHER THEY HAVE THE SCRIPTURAL DEFINITION OF REPENTANCE BROTHERS.
GRACE TO YOU
In reference to article 9, I think we need to MAKE SURE of their definition of repentance before we say they are inconsistent in only saying "faith" in article 9.
If anything, just on the surface (not saying it's so, it may or may not be) by just saying "faith in 9, would lean ones thinking that the repentance in 5 is a change of mind. So give them the benefit of the doubt until we know for sure their definition of repentance in 5 brothers.
Hey brothers, repentance it is only a change of mind from our way to God's way of salvation. The correctness of their repentance depends on their definition of repentance. If it means change of mind (that's the only scriptural definition regarding salvation) then fine. But if not, then false.
Also you might be miss reading the next article brothers. You yourselves along with myself understand that We are saved (justified), we are being saved (not justification, but sanctification), He has perfected forever THOSE THAT ARE BEING SANCTIFIED, and we will be saved (not justification not sanctification) but the redemption of our bodies.
Unless you question them, we cannot assume they hold to what you are saying you think they mean, IE, persevering to the end or lost.
When we come to Leighton, he is abundantly clear that you are saved JUSTIFIED in a moment of time, and sealed with the Spirit, AND NOTHING CAN EVER BREAK THAT SEAL. YOU ARE ETERNALLY SECURE IN CHRIST.
BJT WE REALLY NEED TO QUESTION THE TRADITIONAL VIEW AS TO WHETHER IT IS Persevere TO THE END OR BE DAMNED, OR THEY MEAN WHAT SCRIPTURES TEACH AS I HAVE RELATED ABOVE.
GRACE TO US ALL.
Bob and Ken would you consider R. B. Theime's definition regarding the meaning of the word election? Thank you.
Also brothers, this has not answered the question ABOUT IS PROVISIONISM AND FREE GRACE THE SAME. I have not yet found in the Provision statement of faith anything different than Free Grace.
PLEASE STUDY LEIGHTON FLOWERS PROVISION STATEMENT. YOU WILL FIND IT IS VERY CLEAR.
We have so far classed Traditional Baptist belief in with Provisionism. But the statement in Provisionism is different.
There’s no such thing as provision ism. Traditional Baptist is like Spurgeon.
The Lord says, "God will provide (Provisionism) himself the sacrifice." It is nothing more than a name for God's Provision of salvation through His Son Lord Yeshua. So yes the Lord teaches us He provided (Provisionism) for "whosoever". Thank you for your reply sir. Blessings!@@aletheia8054
No repentance is not in John, but it's in others. "Repent and believe the good news," Lord Jesus said. Only a change of mind. And that is what needs to be searched out before categorizing a statement of belief.
I would argue that anyone who examines the evidence of Christ in a clear presentation of the Gospel of Grace from (1) a position of humility in regards to God's holiness, and (2) with honesty in regards to their need for a Savior - that they will almost certainly come to faith in Christ for the free gift of everlasting life. What is that called, lol? Because THAT is actually what happens. Anything apart from that reality is just that.. a departure from reality.
So clear Bob & Ken .
Leighton Flowers spends endless hours disagreeing with Low Laying Fruit (Calvinism) .
In fact , he's Joined at the Hip with them where it Matters Most .
He clearly denies Free Grace Theology by positing Repentance as a NECESSARY Condition , in addition to making one's perseverance in the process" of sanctification the sine qua non of one's Everlasting destination .
"Close But No Cigar " can describe his soteriology .
A modified form of Calvinism? Or of Arminianism? Could it not also be called a modified form of Free Grace? After all, it has several points in common with Free Grace.
Repentance - it depends on one’s definition. Many Free Grace folks also believe it to be necessary to salvation, rightly defined. Why even mention it? Why does the Bible even mention it in contexts some see as dealing with salvation?
Preservation vs. Perseverance - unclear or misleading statements by Provisionists. However, even some historically Free Grace folks - like Charles Ryrie - were not always as clear as GES folks.
Many critics of lordship salvation simply have a problem with their definition of saving faith, but GES has instead made James 2 the hill to die on. GES actually accused a channel that is pretty close to Ryrie on soteriology (the different being 5 vs 4 point TULIP) of teaching works salvation simply for holding to the traditional understanding of James 2, even though the video that sparked it was a rebuttal of Lordship salvation.
BTW I think the reason GES doesn't like PotS terminology is because they think it is possible for a true believer to apostatize fully (contrary to Calvinism) and remain saved (contrary to Arminianism and Lutheranism). But this blatantly contradicts John 3:18.