Why NieR: Automata Could Only Work as a Game (Spoiler Analysis)
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- Опубликовано: 24 мар 2017
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SPOILER WARNING - this video discusses the ending to NieR: Automata, so go play it before watching this. Trust me, it's really good.
Most games nowadays fail to realise the potential of the medium to tell stories through interaction. Whilst they may not necessarily benefit from being a movie, a book or TV show, you could envision their stories being told that way. Yoko Taro's recent release NieR:Automata, however, utilises every aspect of games to such an extent that its incredibly powerful story could not be told through another medium (especially relevant given there's a NieR:Automata anime in the works now too). In this episode of Writing on Games, I attempt to break down why that is by analysing the story in detail, ending spoilers and all.
#nierautomataanime
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Took footage for one cutscene from Boss Fight Database due to my capture card freaking out. Thanks! • Nier Automata: 9S Boss...
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Игры
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I'd just like to add that over the course of the game 2B talks about how memories make the androids who they are. That's what pains her about the 9S situation during ending A. He even mentions that he'll just get another body, no problem. When we complete ending E and give up our save data we may lose our progress but we retain our memories of playing the game. That's the difference between human's and machines. I think this is also shown when the machines do the Romeo and Juliet play. Without human memories their interpretation/perception of these stories is very... non-human.
deathsitexxi I always thought the Romeo and Juliet part should show the violent nature of humans.
Jin kisaragi Pisseth off! (Honestly, I thought that too, didn't an audience npc even mention that?)
+Blademaster Ryutaro PISSETH OFF!
The beginning of Route B when the robot is getting oil for his brother. I was surprised how emotional this one little simple scene made me. 😢
especially when you trip and spill the oil ):
Brother brother
_Brother, brother...._
This game is all about playing the players like a fiddle.
For example, I knew about Devola and Popola from the original NieR, so i didn't trust them, but that's exactly what other characters did to them, they're other Devola and Popola and yet they were blamed for what happened when a couple of them went rogue, but these two are not to blame and i should have trusted them...
night1952 Yeah i had the same mistrust about them. Yoko Taro played us like a good damn fiddel!
I had never played the previous game, and I still didn't trust them. The tower voice was too close to theirs, and they seemed shady.
They played you like a damn FIDDLE? Oh, Miller
Only thing I trusted by that point was that any character introduced was probably going to have a shitty time by the end or already had one before the game's events. Though not having played the first Nier, I wasn't suspicious of the twins
Me meanwhile instantly trusting them cause they gave me free stuff, and getting hype as shit when they show up for the final fight to help me.
Ending E not only managed to be emotionally powerful, it made SACRIFICE beatiful, something super hard to achieve in any media, i didn't feel sad at the end, i wanted to help other people for nothing in exchange, and this is coming from a guy who tends to be rather selfish. All of the Yoko Taro games tend to make kind of an analysis to certain specific topics. We have vendetta in DoD3 and we have religion and taboo themes in DoD1, or the gray zone of morals in Nier 1. But Automata seems to pick a much wider range of things, it feels like a complete anylisis of the human theory, makes the player think but doesn't shove an opinion or idiology into their throats, lets make the players realize and analize things by themselves, and after all the journey it makes them take a decision.
It's not that easy. You already got something in exchange. You are helping them after the fact they already helped you. That is the concept of indebtedness.
In the middle of the credits sequence I got something like "2B and 9s fought so hard, can you really turn back now?". It's not really like me, nothing really gets to me, but actually started crying a little bit because I realize that other people had gone to the same shit that I had and we're cheering me on. Urging me to continue forward even though it sucked, because I'm doing the right thing, and that's worth the struggle.
And then one of them came to help me, and we were able to do it together, and I really felt like I was a part of something. And then I realize someone had erased all their data, something that I can never do, I hoard every single achievement I do in any game for posterity, and they did it just to help a total stranger.
What did ask for the question I said yes without even a blink.
"It's just a game people say, it's just some media, grow up..".
It might have been in a small way or even an insignificant way, but this game actually changed me. And I think it was for the better.
Kaixero good. Hoarding anything is a waste of time. Im not buddhist, but the main tenet of buddhism is "Attachment causes suffering". Dont get attached to things like trophies, or wealth, or fancy tech gadgets. You dont need them to give you happiness. True happiness/fulfilment is achieved when you enjoy the existence of something, while not forcing that thing to continue to exist for your sake. Let go, and live.
NieR: Automata is one of the best games ever made.
agree. I'm 41 now and saw a lot of good games but this one...oh man...music and story alone are worth a 11/10, especially ending e is outstanding written. a true masterpiece!
Goujiki I agree with you too
Senso Eirensen in my opinion this game wasn't simply a game like other games it was a story,a point and a meaning in a shape of a video game
I just finished the ending e and I.... I really can't get this game out of my mind is anyone else like me?
In the same boat... this game spoke to me on so many levels, its ridiculous. I find it hard to even classify it as simple a game, it has gone on to do so much more. Heck, even the acclaimed Witcher 3 can't really do it for me anymore... I see all of the games in my library as what they are in the end, a video game. But NieR... somehow it isn't the same.
all I have to say about nier:automata is what a fucking good game.
that too.
So happy to see something mainstream playing around with these concepts. I've only previously been able to find developers willing to do this in the indie scene.
Thomas Coker Yoko Taro has been doing this since as early as 2003 when drakengard 1 (the start of the series nier is a spinoff off) came out. He has always tried to break traditions and dealt with very taboo concepts (drakengard 1 is super fucked up). It is only now that the series has become more well known (although I wouldn't call it mainstream yet, it is still pretty niche).
Emptilion yeah, this is the first Yoko Taro game I've beaten (I only played a bit of Nier a few weeks ago in preparation for this but yeah, no Drakengard or anything). I did a bunch of reading on the rest of his work before writing this video though and MAN, I wanna go back and play those games. The way the lore is handled in Automata is kinda mindblowing and yet you don't need to have played those games to appreciate Automata. Masterful.
Writing on Games Yeah. Yoko Taro is a gem in the industry. Just a little warning if you didn't know already. Before Nier automata, nier was their most solid game gameplay wise, and as you may have noticed, it isn't the most exciting game on the planet to play. Drakengard 1 and 3 are rough man (2 was alright, but since Yoko Taro wasn't involved much the story suffered pretty damn heavily). drakengard 1 is probabely the most repetative game i have ever played, and 3 has some serious framerate problems while still being repetative (to a lesser degree tho). These games are completely fueled by the idea of "people who kill shouldnt have fun" (although, this is probabely partially becouse of a lack of talent). I always have a difficult time recommending these games, despite of how much I love them. Nier automata is the first. I usually recommend watching a lets play or lore video. But if you can sit through the jank, it is definately worth playing for yourself. I hope Yoko Taro keeps working with platinum or other great studio's. I would really enjoy another solid Yoko Taro game after Nier automata. That game quickly rose to being my favorite game of his.
+Emptilion I don't think NieR was all that bad, gameplay-wise. The way people talked about it, it was like it was unplayable or something. So I went in expecting the worst and ended up enjoying it. Of course, if I go back and play it now after playing Automata, it might feel unplayable in comparison though.
+Writing on Games I haven't played Drakengard, but you won't be disappointed in NieR story-wise. I'd say it's superior to Automata in that regard. It really makes you care about the characters.
If you haven't played through Emil's sidequests in Automata yet, I would hold off until after you've played NieR. It is will be so much more powerful. I don't think I've ever *cared* more about a game character than I have Emil. His story is tragic, and becomes even more tragic in Automata.
I probably won't spoil much if I say Automata is genius in subverting one of the *only* happy moments in NieR's depressing ending. One of the only blessings, one of the only hopes it gave... it makes you question if it might have been a curse.
''You're thinking about how much you want to **** 2B, aren't you?''
oh trust me, everybody is
Then after the reveal that 9S loves 2B as much as he hates her for killing him over and over again, you realise it's actually "You're thinking about how much you want to kill 2B, arn't you?"
Yoko Taro is a genius. The dialogue can go both ways. The game is either just stating what's in the player's mind as well as what's in 9S mind. Fucking brilliant.
I don't know. I've seen this theory but it's pretty obvious that 9S does not resent 2B for killing him over and over. I guess it can be interpreted both ways, but I think it that 9S most likely just want to bone 2B and don't like that Adam reduce his love for her to that. Probably because his love "survives" death and thus 9S feels like it's pure and shouldn't be defiled, even though he totally wants to tap that ass (heck he actually grope 2B if you mess around with vibrations in the parameter section of the game).
"It's pretty obvious that 9S does not resent 2B for killing him over and over." How is it obvious? His emotions went crazy when he was fighting clones 2E(2B) units and he was both so happy yet filled with so much despair from doing so. You really need to take another look at that scene. A part of him was satisfied doing it but the other part of him was so heartbroken.
It was like payback, but at the same time he felt guilty of doing it because he loves her so much at the same time.
He has no genitals, so he has no sexual urges. He has pure puppy dog love for 2B. He doesn't want to fuck her, he has no dick to fuck her with. But he does know the beauty of a female's body, despite it being artificial, hence to why he was a bit shy of touching her while you were messing with him during the adjusting the vibration settings.
It's not a theory. It has been proven that he does want to kill 2B.
"He has no genitals" [CITATION NEEDED]
The game never mentions that androids don't have genitals or can't have sex. In fact 9S in-game model even has a groin and we see many androids that are in intimate relationships throughout the game (Deserter couple quest). While they may not see sexuality like humans do (because hormones and shit), it's highly possible that they do have genital organs and can have sexual intercourses. Especially since we know that they can feel pleasure (Shower dialogue, Jackass Research).
For the "obvious" thing, I was talking about the 9S vs A2 fight, where 9S simply tell A2 to shut up and that she doesn't understand anything about them when she tells him about 2E. To me that's a pretty good indicator that it did not matter to 9S, and it's even expanded on in ending D where he show no resentment toward 2E and seems quite understanding of her (and at that point he's pretty much recovered his sanity). Also 9S was obviously batshit insane during the 2Bs fight, don't forget that YoRHa androids "battle fever" is very close to sexual excitement, so fighting and killing 2B models was definitely a strange moment for 9S as he felt pleasure and felt relieved from freeing the 2B models from the virus by killing them, as well as bad for killing them because of his love for her. It doesn't mean that he wanted to get back at her.
You talk about fact, but I haven't seen a single line where 9S state that he resent 2B for what she did. Now he did not state the inverse either. But Ending D clearly shows that he feels more sad for her than anything really.
Knoloaify Id say the Jackass thing proves that Androids get off from violence. Thus the line between sex and killing is blurred for them. That's why the line is censored. It can go either way. Also Ending A and the one particular scene where 9S takes down a tower are very much trying to also portray killing as intercourse.
Video games are the forefront of art in the modern world. first we had stories, then poems, then songs, then radio, then television, then movies, each new format adding a dimension upon the previous. Video games are a place where you have a story, a soundtrack, a visual presentation, and for the first time in history, a real interaction. There is more time invested by the player than in a movie or anything else, giving the artists more to create, and show you. Video games are in a lot of ways the highest form of art to date. This game should be considered a classic work, on par with any Shakespeare, Poe, Beethoven, da Vinci, Beatles, Miyazaki, or Kojima. I said it. Fuck off.
You speak exactly like i do when i talk to people about games, that's strange
Dunno bout that chief
I cried. I feel no shame. Why would I? Ending E was probably the single most beautiful, heartfelt Ending of any game I have ever played, and may ever play from this point on.
In that last, final struggle against increasingly intense odds trying to drag my entire playthrough's existence back into its doomed cycle where no one earned a happy ending, the last thing I ever expected to have happen happened: Someone helped me. I didn't know it could happen. I didn't know that's what the game had been building to. I was dumbstruck. All I could do was break into a stupid grin, let the tears I'd been holding back start flowing, and keep fighting.
It wasn't about me wanting to make a better ending- to subvert the climactic disaster that awaited every character no matter what choices I made. No. WE wanted to change the world. WE wanted to change the Ending. I was not alone. All along, We had been fighting together, hoping for the same conclusion and the same break in the game's consistency. WE had gone through the same actions, made the same mistakes, and wanted to correct the same wrongs. And together, without even needing to ask, We could do it.
When the credits finally all fell, and We'd finally reached the end of our fight to bring hope back into the world, the game revealed a simple truth and asked a simple question. Data for data. Someone's sacrifice for another's success. I don't know if I've ever said Yes to digital media questions with more gusto and passion in my life. Someone helped me. And I would help another. There was no moment of hesitation. There was no regret. I smiled the whole time. When my data was being deleted, I proudly looked on knowing that someone somewhere would make better use of those lost pages. I was happy, and still am.
I would argue that Metal Gear Solid 2, Dark Souls, and Nier (the original game) are all examples of this as well. The entire last half of MGS2 is a critique on games and how people relate to them, Dark Souls was built on the concept interactivity in a single player game, and like Automata, Nier is a game built on your playthroughs changing as you learn more of the game.
new fate26 Don't forget Undertale. Like it or not, it couldn't be anything ither than game.
new fate26 Thanks for watching! I was thinking about discussing MGS2 in this context (it's one of my favourite games ever) but ultimately I wasn't sure if it fell into this category. The majority of what makes the ending what it is is conveyed to you through exposition (the codec's unreliability, for example). Even "Fission Mailed" is just a frame for the action taking place. There is definitely an argument to be made there though. Also, however, Super Bunnyhop already made that video with his Critical Close-up which you should TOTALLY watch if you haven't. Thanks again!
Willian Gabriel yeah, I wasn't a big fan of Undertale but it definitely couldn't convey its story without being something you controlled.
I'd put Bastion and Transistor on that list as well
Gk Kk I'm not so sure about those two. Bastion's story and themes would work well in other media, too. It's certainly a stronger experience if you play through it, but your choices and options are just personal preference. Sure, the narrator would have a lot less impact, but it's still just a narrator. I would argue The Stanley Parable is a much better example of this mechanic and that game definitely belongs on that list. I played through about half of Transistor, so I can't say if it's the same, but from what I've seen it feels pretty similar to Bastion.
Great video!
The best 72 hrs I've spent on playing a game 👌, favourite game of this generation so far, this ultra sci-fi and philosophical vibe is my shit.
The original NieR also relied a lot on being a game. The first playthrough, you kinda feel like a hero, but in the second one, you find out you're more evil than the antagonist. The moment that made it into my favourite game of all time was during my second playthrough, shortly after the fight against beepy in the junk. I was wandering throughthe hills, fighting shades when one of them dropped the item "used coloring book". What seemed like a normal item before made me realize that I was killing kids all along.
*"This is not merely a game about the humanity we imbue in robots, it's about cycles"*
Oh, so it was actually Dark Souls II the whole time.
Wow thank you this was a great analysis. I finally understood why I didn't find myself enjoy Horizon Zero Dawn as much as I'd expect (right after finishing Nier Automata) despite it being an excellent game in all regards, and also why I tend to enjoy Japanese games more in general.
Western AAA games sometimes feel bland and formulaic because they usually try too hard to please, while games like N:A are more than willing to sacrifice the gameplay, or make the player feel depressed and shocked in order to drive its point home. One camp plays it safe and sticks to conventions of the medium while the other takes risks, pushes boundaries, and tries to create an experience that's not bound by conventions and expectations.
I generalised quite a bit here but I hope I got my point across. At the end of the day I enjoy both types of games, and there is a place for each of them and everything in between in the industry/market. But it's games like Nier Automata I'll still remember and talk about years from now.
Justin Doan To be fair, Horizon took a lot of risks and represented a huge innovative direction for the developer, who had designed nothing but shooters up to then. Suddenly going huge open world RPG, in a weird fantasy sci fi world with robot dinosaurs that somehow need to explained convincingly, a female red headed protagonist who remains fully dressed throughout the whole game, all kinds of innovative combat mechanics such as trip wires, different types of traps, different types of arrow, stealth mechanics, and a convincing storyline and dialogue... For a company with zero RPG experience it was a huge risk and a great achievement. What I don't like is exactly what I don't like about ALL open world games: the endless filling of my map with endless markers that I have to visit and collect - that often feels like endless busywork. But the side quests are actually very good and feature quirky characters or surprising twists.
Justin Doan I'm really unsure as to why people keep comparing these two games... The women, I guess.
Justin Doan Japanese games are just as formulaic as western ones, they just use a different formula. If you try and tell me that the FF games are more innovative and have better stories than the Witcher, or Divinity, or Hellblade, or Lisa? All mainstream shit, from both east and western devs, is watered down samey bs. You look to the fringes for innovators like Yoko Taro or toby fox. Nier automata being super successful has less to do with Taro being japanese and more to do with him putting in the work to make this game as good as possible.
Oh my god
When I first play Route B. I noticed the title and felt strange.
I thought the title was shown in route A too but I found out it didn't.
This is an amazing analysis and, as much as the timing of it's release sort of messes up the current piece I'm writing right now for part 2 of my analsysis video, I can't deny the quality, clarity, and service this video provides to the gaming audience. Anything that helps boost the respect NieR Automata and Yoko Taro receive will always be something I appreciate. Thank you for this video.
Just do what you wanna do. There's so many people on youtube there there will be overlap for popular games. Like Minecraft updates, dozens of people do them, don't hurt no body. No one has the exact same youtuber sub pile.
Lana, your analysis was really well done also. It brought up a couple of things that I didn't notice my first time going through the entire game.
Thank you ^_^
Ty ^_^
Clicked for NieR, came for 2B, found Lana Rain in the comments, came for her as well... (hehehehehehehe)
List of great narratives that had to be conveyed through an interactive medium:
Silent Hill 2
Paper’s Please
Spec-Ops: The Line
Shadow of the Colossus
Ico
BioShock
Thomas Was Alone
Journey
Oddworld: Abe’s Oddysee
What Remains of Edith Finch
Undertale
The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
Bastion
Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time
Metal Gear Solid
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
The Stanley Parable
Her Story
Nier: Automata
ive tried bioshock, because everyone says its so good. Gameplay was a letdown, and all i wanted to know what big daddy was, then i killed him and i stopped.
Im now playing Nier Automata and i am bored out of my mind during gameplay, its not challenging at all, i just run past everything to see the story.
Papers, Please is my favourite game that uses the mechanics as the central force that pushes the story and themes.
Valtteri ah yes, Papers Please is utterly fantastic! I keep meaning to go back to it but I never feel ready for how crushing it can be.
When bioware tried to shove that pile of sludge that was the ME 3 ending down my throat and tried to pass it off as a deep Oscar worthy artistic vision, I couldn't help but bitterly laugh. Then I played nier automata on all endings and realized that this is how you make a truly memorable ending to a story exploring the full spectrum of video game media.
I feel that the original writers of ME1 and 2 also had a vision that was way more ambitious. From what I heard the ending of me3 leaked and they changed it and some people left bioware during development as well. Now this is pure speculation but I feel that if these things wouldnt have happened that ending would have been a lot better. Maybe not such an interesting cyclical repeat story as this game, but better nonetheless.
Only the ending?
Surely you mean the whole series?
being fairly new to yoko taros games and NieR: Automata being the first yoko taro game i've ever played, this game made me question things i've never thought to question before, made me feel emotions towards games i never even knew i had. Most times when i play games i set challenges for myself, goals to reach and fight for, but they always left me with the same feeling, just nothing, like "okay. thats it? there's nothing else?" just run around, do the quests, kill the enemies, beat the game, happy ending *snap* done. but automata it...when i got to ending E and i was fighting in the credits i got this just...heart pounding "I have to do this! i have to see what comes next and i have to do it all my own." and i beat my head against a wall for like 20 to 30 minutes before i gave up and accepted help, and ill never forget it, the messages from the players i loved them, i felt sad every time i got another players save file killed, 8 was the total number killed, so i could progress, and i fell back into my old habit, declined to give up my save file even though i could've just started another playthrough, and told myself, ill give it up when i've 100% the game. im currently in the process of doing that, though its a pain in the ass, i fully intend to give up my save at the end. let my sacrifice save someone else, whether they care or not, doesn't matter. but seeing this video...has made me realize that im kinda like everyone else, i didn't give up my save and i didn't break the cycle. so im gonna go do that. (btw not trying to bad mouth anyone just so you know...its just...this video has made me question and think about things again, this game fucked me up for a week after i played it...)
Still. I'd watch the SHIT out of a Yoko Taro directed movie based in the Automata timeline.
Would you settle for a series of stage plays?
oh yeah such a great game. Nier:automata ripped my heart into pieces. I was reduced to a miserable pile of tears at the end. It surprised me every 5 minutes with something new. It's just amazing. I was so dead afterwards for the next few days. Didn't know anymore what to do with my life afterwards.
But if you haven't played it: Drakengard 1 was already an amazing genre twister. it fucks you up with twisting every possible tropes you would ever find in a JRPG.
You know that dashing teenager who is out to save the world with Optimism?
Well in Drakengard you play as Caim, a young man who is a complete sociopathic bloodlust filled maniac that enjoys blood, guts, and violence on every possible level.
his sister the gate guardian and the fucking goddess is in love with her brother (yes she is - it's clear in the japanese dub)
the first companion Inuart. in a normal jrpg a valued ally.
in that game he is nothing more than a crying loser who can't handle the fact that he has no chance with caims sister furiae.
the elf arioch - in other games the elf character is wise with badass magic, but wouldn't keep the magic to herself.
well in that game arioch is a complete pycho elf woman who eats human children as delicacy
verdelet the priest guy - in other games the healer - and this one is racist and doomsaying and downright horrible.
the dragon who is usually the evil monster is actually a not too bad dragon who hates human because humans are so cruel. Talk about the evil dragon now
the only normal person in this game with a somewhat good personality is a goddamn pedophile.
That game is not fun in even the slightest measures possible. But that's what makes it so good.
The gameplay is awful, the music is terrible. The plot twists and endings are downright devilish.And the characters. Well fucked up.
But somehow that's what makes It amazing xDD
I remember the scene when 2B contracted the virus and starts spreading all over her body. The struggle to get from one point to another was real, so in a way, I actually feel her struggle. That, I thought, is an experience that is very unique to a game that books, podcasts / audio books, movies, or theatre can simply not make me feel. There was no gameplay there -- it was literally go from point A to point B as you slowly have a hard time fighting anyway, but that is included in the struggle, and I loved it.
So true. All other games with similar events just let you walk through a scripted scene but in Nier the world is still as dangerous as it was whereas the player suddenly loses the power and it triggers this intense "fear-or-flight" response in the player's mind.
This game redefined the concept of "sacrifice" in storytelling and game design for me. Thank you for making this video. It sums up many of the great concept Yoko Taro incorporated in this masterpiece.
Good video, some of the things you said really got me. Few things I'd like to mention: What 9S discovers is about purpose of Yorha other than project Gestalt, you can only read about Gestalt in Automata if you play Emil side quests. They probably made this choice to not alienate new players.
While I do think Automata is a story to change the player itself, I think it's also a story largely about it's characters.
Thank you so much for putting in the citations of those interviews and your sources.
Man I’m really enjoying your videos. So well written and considered.
This sort of thematic resonance with gameplay instead of just cutscenes, is also what separated good JRPGS from the rest in the "old days" even if less pronounced.
"It always ends like this" Because 2B is actually 2E
I remember that at the very first scene, 2B's squad was actually equipped with an E unit (7E, if I remember correctly?) and even if it may not actually have much of an importance, I was kinda interested in what that implied
I think one of the side quests explained that if I remember correctly.
11B was a deserter and they may have expected that, so an E-Type accompanied them (it was a quest indeed)
SquareEnix took a big gamble on Yoko and it payed off big time. Can't wait to see what he does next
5th day
5th day I am listening to the soundtrack.
i really hate it but ima go back and watch this after I play the game
Mental Gear ah really? I think you might be the first person I've seen say they dislike the music! Personally, I thought it was fantastic.
i've been listening to the sountrack for five days now. I hate not to watch your vid because i'll spoil myself. The ost is awesome. It's just that I still havent bought the game, it's really expensive for my country.
PC or PS4?
PC
Mental Gear ah sorry, I misread your comment! Well I must say I'm glad you're enjoying the soundtrack!
Fantastic analysis ..thanks for the video!
I found your channel about a week ago in the related section of one of Mark Brown's "Game Maker's Toolkit" videos. Since then, I've watched every video you've ever made. I continue to be absolutely floored by the depth of your commentary and the level of thought with which you approach seemingly every game you play. These videos have been some of the most interesting I've found on RUclips and I sincerely hope this series continues onward and upward. Thanks for creating such thought provoking content.
Exmordius wow, thank you so much for the kind words. Really glad you're enjoying the videos. Means a lot.
"It always ends like this" is referring to the story and 2B and 9S' past that we never get to see but we're told about later on; has nothing to do with the repeating playthroughs.
Great video. One of my favorite games.
And then the worst thing that could happen, happened...
I think another point with deleting your save data is loss, a major theme in Automata. You see Adam and Eve, how crazy Eve becomes after losing his brother; the brothers at the start of 9S' playthrough, Devola and Popola, 2B and 9S. They all fell to pieces after losing the one the loved, but you don't have to. You may have spent 24+ hours in this world, but you can give it up to help someone in need. You can lose something precious without breaking.
Deleting save files in the game world is equivalent to ceasing existence for a person in real life. So it's like the player is forced to make a decision "to be or not to be".
Awesome analysis, you bring up a ton of great points. I'm glad Yoko Taro could make this game, and i hope it's success and good reviews ensure we'll see more like it in the future.
Thank you very much. Great content.
you made me want to buy this game so bad...
MorroWolf *Do It!*
+YoRHa No.2 Type B you mean type E... *winks winks*
Just, Do It
NieR: Automata is a genuine masterpiece.
I really liked this video. You had a completely different interpretation of 2B's line "It always ends like this" than I did, which is neat, and got me thinking about the game again.
I've written a lot about this game, and I'm still seeing new things in the story.
Man I just love your videos, keep it up sir, and I hope for more dark souls if anything comes to mind!
Im hearing "subverting player expectations" a lot lately.
It's Japanese game developers New favorite gaming trope.
Undertale practically ran on it.
It works, though
Until its gets ran into the ground in 3-5 years.
What happens when you expect to have your expectations subverted?
Thank you for this video. What a fantastic insight to both intent of the game's creation, and the underlying narrative experience it provides.
i love analytical content like this and nier: automata has a special place in my heart. thank you for making this video.
So basically a Lessons From The Screenplay channel but for games??
HELL YEAH!! SUBBED!!
I would argue that this is a prime example of how video games make the idea of an intangible, uncertain story more viable, where movies often struggle. This is best shown in Rashomon, arguably one of the best films employing a diversity of perspectives, that just leaves people uncertain of themselves, whereas this lets them confidently decide what they believe them, much like reading a Shakespeare tragedy's script.
Keep up the top work, you're one of the most interesting people on RUclips right now!
Great great work. I actually wish I did t see this since I didn't play but kudos to that dev team for putting this together and to you for the analysis.
easily the best analysis of the meta-plot / meta-design of NieR: Automata. in any form (written, video, podcast, whatever).
The ending Sacrifice of the game is one of the most powerful things I have ever experienced in a game, when a character sacrifices their life it often is lost on me in a emotional standpoint. FF15 for example, that climax is instantly followed by reloading an old save, "oh look everyone is back and they're all fine lets ride a chocobo" but when in Nier and Automata sacrificing yourself, your work up to this point, by giving up your save, and having it slowly taken from you bit by bit, struck me so deeply, and having other players lend me their power in the end actually made me cry and once I found out they sacrificed their saves to help me made me cry more.
Great video as usual Hamish
6:30 small point but not all Androids are made from machine life form cores, just the Yorha. The Androids you interact with that are apart of the resistance were made by humans to have full AI, including consciousness and emotions. The Yorha are combat drones and it wasn't seen as ethical to put AI in them. This happens before it's shown that machine lifeforms are capable of spontaneously developing consciousness and emotions on their own which is what happened with the Yorha.
Deleting my own save to help someone else was the most impactful decision in a game I have ever made.
This game made me ponder on so many things and blew my mind on so many levels...
It's nice to have someone like you being able to put some words on the global feeling we get playing those kind of games...
Oh...And...
Well played Yoko Taro.
Interesting analysis
thanks
Alessandro Buffa Thanks for watching!
Virtue's Last Reward HAD to be a game. :) (even more so than 999) I.e. that's still the king for me, even though it might just look like a "novel" on the surface.
Kainz K. It's the only game of this genre ( i thought zhe genre was visual novel /puzzle )that i ever played and the story was sooooo fucking mind blowing. I couldn't stop playing it even bought the PS4 pack with 999 zero escape and can't wait to start . I also heard part 3 was anounced.
Jin kisaragi Part 3 is already out
Taro and the ZE creator have to meet. a lot of nier reminds me of Zero Escape, yet they are so different.
Agree. There are also some things (spoliers, the ones who finished the game knows what I mean) that couldn't be done without being a visual novel.
New fan, but I'm loving your stuff. Keep it up!
steven rigby thanks a lot! Really appreciate it.
I like your content a lot it's quite refreshing to hear someone look at games from a near philosophical aspect. Your review on dark souls matches what mine would have been if I hadn't already learned that lesson from minesweeper. Keep on keeping on good sir.
great video man
This is deep. My eyes have been opened! You just earned a sub!
This video will be relevant again when the anime will air.
I am absolutely in love with Nier:Automata and to have this insight further makes me love it some more. Great thoughts kind sir
Kind of remind some concept that games like MGS2, earthbound and Undertale use. None of those games stories can be told through any other medium without losing something important.
While a lot of games have been exploring ideas for how they can use the medium to do certain things with story and the like, very, very few have been able to do what Nier Automata does. A game like Undertale feels like it's doing it as a gimmick. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's the difference between "What's a plot I can build around the mechanics of being a game?" and "How can I use my medium to best tell the story and emotions I want to tell?"
Undertale, DDLC, and even the final stretch of MGS 2 were the former, while Automata is the latter. I'm not trying to take anything from those first three games, but there's definitely a difference. It makes Automata feel more "real". It's not poking you with a wink and reminding you that you're playing a game. It's using the way the game works to suck you in.
That's why it's so much more effective at the very, very, very end when they finally do slam you with the "gimmick" for the final "boss". Taro really earned that payoff in this game, even more so than in the original Nier. Although that game found ways to really dig into you with the medium, it wasn't as prevalent or as permeating as it is here. He's been working on these sorts of concepts since all the way back in Drakengard 1, where it posed the question of "Wouldn't a person who kills this many people, even for the cause of saving the world, have to be quite unhinged?" years before things like Spec Ops: The Line. And without rubbing your face in it like that game did, either.
so am i missing something or is the chill beat you've got through the video NOT in the description or at the end of the video?
Great video btw. TBH this all flew over my head when i was playing the game. I deleted my data more out of gratitude for others that helped me than anything else. I absolutely loved this game.
Ha, I make all the music for the videos. The soundtracks are available as patron rewards. Really glad you enjoyed the video!
One of the best (if not the best review of the game). thank you.
now in very late 2022 they're going to release a NieR auomata anime in 2023
Great video! This is everything I try to tell to people about why this series is so great. It's truely an experience, and ending E wouldn't be half as impactful if you didn't do it yourself, or you weren't playing the game uto get to that final point. Love this game so much, great video.
I chose not to delete my save data despite the game teaching me to break from the cycle. I don't think I was wrong, nor do I think those who chose delete were wrong. I find joy in the cycle, and want to hold on to the 2B, 9S and A2 that I've come to know and develop. Perhaps there's also something the game is trying to tell us with not deleting. That we are almost just like the machines who keep doing the same thing over and over again despite its futility. And that maybe one day we will be like those machines... And when we lose our purpose, we delete our data
Nah which choice one makes doesn't matter. You are forced to make a really hard decision that's the whole point.
Last summer was a very interesting video game season for me. I got Life Is Strange in mid-June and played that game on loop for weeks. At the end of July, I got Nier: Automata and played THAT game on loop for weeks (partially because I sacrificed my data to help someone else with that bullet hell and pay it forward). Two games about the [apparent] futility of your actions within perpetual cycles back-to-back, and I'm still not bored with either of them. Either I'm no different than Max the time warrior in LiS and the machines and YoRHA units in Automata, or those games just resonated with me on a deeper level.
Personal testimony time. Last summer marked the end of a personal never-ending cycle of looking for work after college. For three freaking years, I had been a college graduate with a high GPA and a teaching certificate who went all over the place, working as a sub and taking other dead-end jobs to support myself while trying to find permanent employment somewhere. Each time, I was told that I lost to someone who had done the job longer or that I simply didn't enough training (despite watching people left and right get jobs with less coursework or certification than I had). I even applied for positions as a teacher's aide, which only required a high school diploma on the application form, but kept getting the same results. Long and short, it felt like I was perpetually trapped in a never-ending spiral of wasting my time because each action to get my foot in the door, which should have had consequences, ultimately led to nowhere, and I kept finding myself back at zero at year-end and had to rewind to start fresh the following year. This time last year, I even found myself seriously considering the military. I almost did because I felt like I was running around in circles, trying to achieve and impossible goal.
I'm probably a hypocrite after all of this because in May (the month before I tried either game), I finally had a break-through after a successful long-term sub assignment and got hired for my first job, which I hold to this day. But, playing these games does remind me of that dark corner in which I was captured in a moment of desperation, crying out, "THIS CANNOT CONTINUE!" Thankfully, my ending was better than that of the characters, but for what it's worth, I think I understand how they felt, if even a little.
To land this plane, Nier: Automata and Life Is Strange are two of the best games that I've ever played because I could relate to the characters' feeling of futility.
(I mentioned LiS because I just came from Hamish Black's review of Before the Storm, in case you're wondering what that has to do with Nier: Automata.)
I have so much love for this game and so much love for this analysis aswell! :)
Man what a great video.
This is a really interesting analysis.
Wow, you make good shit. wish I could support you on patreon
THIS ANALYSIS IS SO GOOD OMG
Brahhh!! I'm glad you played it and I hope the godly soundtrack left you blown away.
Ronald mathew it really was fantastic!
Watching this again after the Vanquish video!
FOR guy who loves goofing off Yoko Taro has a pretty dark yet truthful view of the world
man, i was really hoping to hear haaaemish's wonderful voice talking about Nier. Not dissapointed. :)
great stuff think silent hill 2 in how it judges you with out letting you know and how that effects the ending you get adds it to the list of this could only be a game. sure they made silent hill films but never tried to adapt 2 as i am sure they can see they'd have issues selecting what ending to go with
Great video. But nit picking: Okay I haven't played this, but @ 3:50 It's entirely possible to have a movie / TV show going through the same story but from different character perspectives. Look up "Rashomon style" on TV tropes, you can find many examples. While I can't think of any examples, it's also possible to have "a movie that you watch again for different content". You could make a second movie take place in the same time and place as the original. It's a bit different, but done a little with what's called a "False Ending". Have a look on wikipedia for false endings.
It would not make the same level of impact on the audience. For example, the dynamic soundtrack in Nier reacts to the player's actions and also you are forced to make hard decisions and stuff.
Thank you for this video, Automata along with its predecessors have been some of my favourite niche games for years and its so lovely to see people like you give it such meaningful analysis and recognition
Definitely sharing this video for more to see as your insight is something i really wish people would aspire to have themselves when consuming medium, not just playing a first playthrough casually because theyve seen pictures of B2s splendid ass.
Great in-depth review from someone who understands the game. Thumbs up!
P.S. What's the name of the background track that plays throughout the video?
an existential masterpiece
hey hamish great vid! keep it up :), i was just wondering, what was the music you used in this video? thanks!
one of the best game I have ever played. i wish yoko taro makes more of it cuz' i cant get enough.
Thank you so much this was amazing. I haven't played the game and it seems super amazing. lol
So interesting to see when a game truly couples its story/lore/narrative to its functionality. I wish more games employed stuff like this to some extent. Maaaaaang
Great points about the game and I fully agree with how magnificently it utilizes the medium to create huge emotional impact to the point of imbuing the player with an existential crisis.
3:46 but I do disagree here about movies. Films like The Sixth Sense (1999), The Prestige (2006), or Suspiria (2018), can be entirely different experiences on the second watch. Multiple subsequent viewings can be enjoyed thoroughly as you look for all the deliberate things that were done to craft the "first time" experience despite what was really going on the entire time.
Yes this is it, this open a speculation about what will happen in next nier installment, the struggle of both 9s A2 snd 2B to break the cycle
Amazing analysis, and amazing game!
Outside of the meaty, story-related stuff, they really went out of their way to add animation details that make the characters look and feel "human." Their idle poses are filled with very subtle, very natural gestures, from the usual stretching, to kicking rocks, to wordlessly begrudging the wet environment, to staring over a ledge to contemplate the height, to spreading their arms to take in the breeze... they're never static nor exaggerated, and they react just as any human would to their environment. When 2B breaks the 4th wall to swat away your underskirt peeking, or when she does a fancy little ballet twirl after performing her charged light attack with large swords, and hell, even the WALK animations... when you come to a stop, they don't just freeze and snap into position. They ever, EVER so subtly take that one last step, with the nuanced weight and grace of a human body. Despite 2B's ostensibly laconic nature and desire to suppress her emotions, all these animations betray a personality and life that words can't fully describe.
Yet as human as they appear, they're nothing more than imitations, puppets destined to be controlled by us... right?
One other game that used the "responsibility" factor of in-game play really well was Spec Ops: The Line. An old shooter that flew under a lot of people's radars.
It's interesting that the anime is going to tell a different story from the game
I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the Zero Escape series. It is another instance of a story that could not be told as well in any other medium, and the third game forces the player to become complicit in allowing the suffering of the characters to happen in a way arguably similar to NieR: Automata.
With the new anime hopefully you were wrong