Thank you for this excellent teaching series. I spent years studying this issue and came to the same conclusions you did. Scripture interprets scripture.
@@treasureofglory said I didn't delete it. Good, then you won't mind me re-posting it then, and here it is word for word. Treasure of Glory Ministries , MacPherson's book is the reason why many people today believe that Darby invented the rapture. He claimed that Darby got the idea from a Scottish spiritist/medium named Margaret MacDonald who got it from demons, then he hatched a “plot” to hide the source of his pre-trib doctrine. And while she did apparently commune with demons, her teaching published in 1840 by Robert Norton actually said the church must go thru the great tribulation to be refined by the Antichrist, so she was post-trib. Her teaching also came after Darby, so could not have gotten his earlier pre-trib doctrine from her later post-trib teaching. Norton removed the post-trib parts of MacDonald's teaching after her death and published an altered version in 1861 with the claim that she was the source of Darby's pre-trib doctrine, and his conspiracy book was the seed for MacPherson's book. But in addition to copies of MacDonald's original post-trib teaching, we have records that Darby was sent to investigate her ministry and reported that it was not of God. Therefore, MacPherson's own conspiracy book was totally false. And a great deal more evidence about the source of the rapture doctrine has come to light because an historian named Dr. William C. Watson recently published hundreds of archival records from the Protestant Reformation to 1800 in which churchmen spoke about Dispensationalism and Rapture ideas, so Darby obviously didn't invent those ideas (“Dispensationalism Before Darby” by William Watson). And rapture knowledge started sprouting around 1600 AD because certain reformers translated the Bible into English and spread the word of God far and wide, then many people started reading and believing what God said rather than what Catholic or Reformed leaders claimed he said.
How does the prewrath view work when Paul states in 2 Thess. 2:8 that the antichrist is destroyed by the splendor of Christ's coming? According to the prewrath view, the church is raptured and the antichrist is left on earth for a couple more years and then Christ comes a third time. This doesn't work with Paul's statement does it?
Pre wrath is a gross misinterpretation of Revelation. The opening of the sixth seal is the second coming of Jesus Christ and the rapture. Rev. 7:9 and 14. The sounding of the seventh trumpet is the last trumpet. The rapture and the second coming of Jesus. (Rev. 11:15-19) The pouring out of the 7th bowl is the second coming of Jesus and the rapture. He comes like a thief in the night for those who are ready. (Rev. 16:15 followed by Armageddon.(Rev. 16:16) In other words the 7 seals, the 7 trumpets, the 7 bowls overlap. They all cover the final 3 and 1/2 years and end with the second coming of Jesus, the rapture of the church (Rev. 7:9 and 14) and the day of God’s wrath. (Rev. 6:17)
Heb 1:3 Jesus is the RADIANCE of the Father apply this to Chapter 4 of Revelation. Now read Chapter 10 of Revelation. This will prove your view, obviously pre trib is not biblical.
@@treasureofglory Have You ever been curious as to why Jesus appears not to be in Chapter 4 of Revelation? Well the answer is that he is. He is the radiance of the Father (which is the rainbow resembling an emerald surrounding the throne). The emerald is the stone of Judah in the breastpiece of the HIgh Priest. You'll do research and find this is true in the KJV, but not in the NIV nor the NASB. I went to many different Jewish historical societies and they all believe the emerald is the stone of the tribe of Judah. Note that the rainbow surrounds the throne - No one comes to the Father except through the Son. It is the most beautiful description of the relationship between the Father and the Son in the whole Bible. Now you will note the Rainbow is not mentioned in Chapter 5. I believe that is becasuse when the elder points to it he refers to Jesus as the Lion of the tribe of Judah. When John looks he then sees a Lamb looking as if it had been slain. Now read Chapter 10, Jesus is the rainbow (also the sign of the Son of Man in Matthew24), the angel is the archangel. the roar is the loud command in 1 Thess 4:16. Note the command is issued with the Voice of the archangel.
@@johngmuer8016 Your conclusions very interesting! Ezekiel 1:26-28 KJV And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it. [27] And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about. [28] *_As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain,_* so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.
Nice series on the no pre trib rapture, am still allways trying to understand Scripture on this topic, from 1948 and 100 years could be a generation plus other study from Daniel and more that this generation shall not pass I believe may be just this generation or in this timeframe. Many claim that there reading Scripture the rite way even phd's and I am allways still learning. Thanks form the videos and am never setting date but literal 2000 years of Christ resurrection is really 2027 to 2034 and like Daniels days and years ment something so does this as well. God Bless.
Great teaching God bless you
Thank you for this excellent teaching series. I spent years studying this issue and came to the same conclusions you did. Scripture interprets scripture.
Thanks for the comments and reaching out! You came to the same conclusions because you believed what the Bible says like I did.
@@treasureofglory This is BS. Revelation 3:10 and John 17:15 are not related. You are a false teacher.
Have you read Dave MacPherson's book, “The Rapture Plot”?
No I have not.
@@treasureofglory, why did you delete my post?
I didn't delete it.
@@treasureofglory said I didn't delete it.
Good, then you won't mind me re-posting it then, and here it is word for word.
Treasure of Glory Ministries , MacPherson's book is the reason why many people today believe that Darby invented the rapture. He claimed that Darby got the idea from a Scottish spiritist/medium named Margaret MacDonald who got it from demons, then he hatched a “plot” to hide the source of his pre-trib doctrine. And while she did apparently commune with demons, her teaching published in 1840 by Robert Norton actually said the church must go thru the great tribulation to be refined by the Antichrist, so she was post-trib. Her teaching also came after Darby, so could not have gotten his earlier pre-trib doctrine from her later post-trib teaching.
Norton removed the post-trib parts of MacDonald's teaching after her death and published an altered version in 1861 with the claim that she was the source of Darby's pre-trib doctrine, and his conspiracy book was the seed for MacPherson's book. But in addition to copies of MacDonald's original post-trib teaching, we have records that Darby was sent to investigate her ministry and reported that it was not of God. Therefore, MacPherson's own conspiracy book was totally false.
And a great deal more evidence about the source of the rapture doctrine has come to light because an historian named Dr. William C. Watson recently published hundreds of archival records from the Protestant Reformation to 1800 in which churchmen spoke about Dispensationalism and Rapture ideas, so Darby obviously didn't invent those ideas (“Dispensationalism Before Darby” by William Watson). And rapture knowledge started sprouting around 1600 AD because certain reformers translated the Bible into English and spread the word of God far and wide, then many people started reading and believing what God said rather than what Catholic or Reformed leaders claimed he said.
Pre wrath brother
How does the prewrath view work when Paul states in 2 Thess. 2:8 that the antichrist is destroyed by the splendor of Christ's coming? According to the prewrath view, the church is raptured and the antichrist is left on earth for a couple more years and then Christ comes a third time. This doesn't work with Paul's statement does it?
You're right, because the entire *7yr tribulation* is God's wrath on display.
All the best to you in your search for truth, *MARANATHA!*
Pre wrath is a gross misinterpretation of Revelation. The opening of the sixth seal is the second coming of Jesus Christ and the rapture. Rev. 7:9 and 14.
The sounding of the seventh trumpet is the last trumpet. The rapture and the second coming of Jesus. (Rev. 11:15-19)
The pouring out of the 7th bowl is the second coming of Jesus and the rapture. He comes like a thief in the night for those who are ready. (Rev. 16:15 followed by Armageddon.(Rev. 16:16)
In other words the 7 seals, the 7 trumpets, the 7 bowls overlap. They all cover the final 3 and 1/2 years and end with the second coming of Jesus, the rapture of the church (Rev. 7:9 and 14) and the day of God’s wrath. (Rev. 6:17)
Do you believe once saved always saved? Or can we lose our salvation?
I lean more towards being able to lose your salvation.
What do YOU think the bible teaches on the matter? _Tooooo_ much scripture that supports eternal security.
Not going to be around for Jacobs trouble buddy.
Well, since you said it like that, I’m totally convinced.
Heb 1:3 Jesus is the RADIANCE of the Father apply this to Chapter 4 of Revelation. Now read Chapter 10 of Revelation. This will prove your view, obviously pre trib is not biblical.
Can you expound on this please?
@@treasureofglory Have You ever been curious as to why Jesus appears not to be in Chapter 4 of Revelation? Well the answer is that he is. He is the radiance of the Father (which is the rainbow resembling an emerald surrounding the throne). The emerald is the stone of Judah in the breastpiece of the HIgh Priest. You'll do research and find this is true in the KJV, but not in the NIV nor the NASB. I went to many different Jewish historical societies and they all believe the emerald is the stone of the tribe of Judah. Note that the rainbow surrounds the throne - No one comes to the Father except through the Son. It is the most beautiful description of the relationship between the Father and the Son in the whole Bible. Now you will note the Rainbow is not mentioned in Chapter 5. I believe that is becasuse when the elder points to it he refers to Jesus as the Lion of the tribe of Judah. When John looks he then sees a Lamb looking as if it had been slain. Now read Chapter 10, Jesus is the rainbow (also the sign of the Son of Man in Matthew24), the angel is the archangel. the roar is the loud command in 1 Thess 4:16. Note the command is issued with the Voice of the archangel.
@@johngmuer8016 Your conclusions very interesting!
Ezekiel 1:26-28 KJV
And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.
[27] And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.
[28] *_As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain,_* so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.
@@SSNBN777 gen 9:13 points to rev 10. By the way the wrath of God is the three woes.
Nice series on the no pre trib rapture, am still allways trying to understand Scripture on this topic, from 1948 and 100 years could be a generation plus other study from Daniel and more that this generation shall not pass I believe may be just this generation or in this timeframe. Many claim that there reading Scripture the rite way even phd's and I am allways still learning. Thanks form the videos and am never setting date but literal 2000 years of Christ resurrection is really 2027 to 2034 and like Daniels days and years ment something so does this as well. God Bless.
I guess we shall see