I watched your previous ignition video first, and as soon as you said the first run was going to be at 3 degrees static, I knew exactly what it was going to sound like! I have a seriously modified 1974 Honda CR125M with a digital PVL ignition and these videos are answering all my questions, great, thanks!!
I'm thinking about building a (even more 'rocket') engine for my cr125 (1980) competition bike. With programmable CDI and mügen porting on a stock cilinder. I'm pretty new to 'tuning' so all info is welcome! 😁
thank you this helped i understand ignitions a lot more now and what they do. i really want to do this kind of thing when i grow up. (fix engines, tune engines, etc)
Great vid! Would like to see how much power you can get out of a yz325 (esr big bore kit) although it’s probably too expensive for you to even think about doing just for a video but would definitely be cool to see
There is one video where one Guy made 59.5 whp with ported esr 325 cr250 but that dyno might show too high figures, this dyno showed esr 325 kit with fmf and v forces making 50 whp
This is the first of your video's I've watched actually found it quite interesting 'Back in the day' (80's) programmable ignition didn't exist, even having two stage high / low was a novelty You should have had a gas analyser on it to show how much fuel just goes down the pipe when ignition is fixed too close to TDC, hydrocarbons are always high but showing how much is either burning in pipe or just cooling it down is always interesting (at least to me) Personally, too much over rev capacity is a bad thing, (unless you like re-building cranks ?) Big end fails when bearing / bearing cage overloads and skids with high centrifugal load (silver plated cages on 125's in 70's~80's) I'll check out a few more before I decide subscribing
When you develop an optimum ign curve on the dyno, how much "fine tuning" do you typically do to the curve after testing it on the track? Besides rider, what variables dictate further adjustments from dyno to track? Is it air quality and elevation or strictly just chasing tame usable power?
We have "fine tuned" our dyno process to shorten the track testing aspect. Most shops really struggle with this concept and optimize an engine to a dyno run (load time of their dyno and process they use). We have tried to optimize our dyno procedure to match what we have learned works on track. Lot's of variables go into this - how much fan on the pipe - and load time - how many runs you do back to back to back to back in what coast down town etc. It's a whole video topic in itself. But once we have a good ignition and jetting combo - we might vary it 1-1.5 degrees in a few spots to suit rider request. We usually sell our CDI's with 2 maps - one we like and 1 we think people might also like thats a little different. For the most part - what riders generally like is a little less hp in trade for a little more RPM.
Awesome job man, can we see some power valve adjustments and what that do? I know the 105 has the aux spring removed . My son really likes the aux spring removed on his 85 as well
The older Husky Cr125’s with some good porting and a modded CDI make more power than the newer ones. Now what I’m looking for is usable power. Pipe tuning is another aspect. It all works together. Love this info.
i dont know about that…The older husky 125s used a T port exhaust and very yamaha like cylinder. For us, the current ktm/husky jetted right makes incredible stock hp and properly built even more incredible mod hp. That said I havent tried to jazz up the old school husky so maybe your on to something
@@HPRaceDevelopment I was thinking the 98 up like Chiodi raced to a world title with. I have a 2000 and a 2002 that needs bored and plated so I thought it made sense to work it over and see what I could make happen. Fast by Ferraci has a few JD race ignition cdi’s left over with some pretty good maps. With more R&D I imagine some more power could be found. Thinking GNCC XC3 ripper and a good setup for whoops/SX style stuff.
OP got a question for ya.....as the amount of 2 stroke oil is increased in the fuel mix (richer mix) should ignition be advanced more? In other words does 2 stroke oil make gasoline burn slower or faster > more oil=more ignition advance spark?
@@HPRaceDevelopment We are in Northern California and only have ama races for Loretta’s. For that we use a new stock bike, but everything else allows full mod 50cc motors we also have Mammoth mountain that allows big bores most run 60cc but the Cobra 65 piston is dimensionally compatible also but may not be any better going to 65cc. But it sounds like you haven’t done mods to the 50’s So Cal and Nor Cal have some fast minis think you could build one that would be better? 🤔
@@raymondharold5973 The current 50 from cobra jetted well is quite good. id be very surprised to see one thats still a 50 be better overall engine combo. Any peak gains you make trade power width - which is critical on a single speed The 60s of course can be very stout vs a 50
@@HPRaceDevelopment The mammoth motors are definitely faster but the mod 50’s some are and some are slower but with a complete system wide change done well some is left on the table you would think, don’t you have a CDI that could be programmed or is there not enough business to justify doing that. I’m wondering what a project like that would cost, I’ve seen that you take a system wide approach and that’s the only way to not miss some potential performance. Any interest ?
@@raymondharold5973 always interest - just never much free time! We are adding on and making a lot of shop changes for the next year - hopefully by fall/winter we have that rolling and I can have some more free time for projects
I have 2 dynos one is a water brake and the chassis dyno is inertia with a brake we can use The inertia is far better over the years - and ironically now lots of nascar shops have switched over to inertia as well
@@HPRaceDevelopment okay thanks, So you usually use only inertia on your chassis dyna without using the brake? is with brake not better for adjustments because there is more load on the engine
everything is kinda like a delay on these due to pipe temp taking time to change so u start pretty early just barely taking some out - and work from there
the straight ignition tests are good for us too, revisit what the engine likes. i was really shocked by some of it at spots how close straight was to a nice curve. years of 2t advancement for measly gains ha
what about power jet? in my 2006 rm 125 manual says it is open from 9000 to 11000 rpm. could i get more top end power with smaler main jet and compensate with bigger power jet? will it kill botom end? (it´s already have none)
Great video! Would this apply for all bike or just TPI / TBI bikes. I don't see any cdi's for my 2018 KTM 250 XC carbureted (with lectron) on the website.
@@HPRaceDevelopment After watching both of your videos its clear bikes ignition curves respond and act differently based on what parts you have on the bike, mine is almost fully suited up with engine mods beside the high performance 2 stroke head which I will be picking up soon. As in what I would like to change I have no idea 😅but a more optimal ignition curve would be nice like shown on the dino.
thats a really nice explanation ... the only problem is 1 hour of dyno is like 150 EURO here in germany ... so getting my 125 smoker perfectly tuned with carb and cdi and all i will have to pay like a thousand euros .. :(((
2,3,4,5 degrees from stock or literally before TDC ? Would stock be say 12 degrees and never 2? Does any motor run at 2? So if you retard the timing it's still before TDC ? Not experienced sorry . Cylinder head temperature goes up if ignition is advanced ? How does it effect pipe temperature ? Cool content thanks .
I thought they were , because the timing retards as revs increase which is inverted for a 4 stroke .lf you started at 2 degrees firing couldn't get to after TDC, it's just not that obvious for a novice . The burn is inefficience for 2t , i wonder how efficient a jet engine is ? They do have power to weight %. Thank you .@@HPRaceDevelopment
@@HPRaceDevelopment Nah its a 1979 50cc so I think ill be fine staying in my mechanical lane :D was a helpful watch anyways tho. 34.5° Before TDC by the previous owner was a bit much IMHO.
Excellent video. I really learned something today. Concerning 2 strokes, many people live with the idea “3 degrees and nothing else”
I watched your previous ignition video first, and as soon as you said the first run was going to be at 3 degrees static, I knew exactly what it was going to sound like! I have a seriously modified 1974 Honda CR125M with a digital PVL ignition and these videos are answering all my questions, great, thanks!!
I'm thinking about building a (even more 'rocket') engine for my cr125 (1980) competition bike. With programmable CDI and mügen porting on a stock cilinder. I'm pretty new to 'tuning' so all info is welcome! 😁
thank you this helped i understand ignitions a lot more now and what they do. i really want to do this kind of thing when i grow up. (fix engines, tune engines, etc)
Straight forward and very informative. Excellent work sir
Great content ,found myself going through your video files, enjoying bikes that I thought didnt apply, worth watching
Great vid! Would like to see how much power you can get out of a yz325 (esr big bore kit) although it’s probably too expensive for you to even think about doing just for a video but would definitely be cool to see
There is one video where one Guy made 59.5 whp with ported esr 325 cr250 but that dyno might show too high figures, this dyno showed esr 325 kit with fmf and v forces making 50 whp
Excellent. Great video, joins the dots really well. Literally 📈😅🤙
Loving all this content! Great presentation. Can't wait to get my TC tuned. High on my list.
Great videos on ignition!
Super informative thanks!
Curious, do you know anything about setting up ignition curves for 2 stroke jet skis with water cooled chambers?
This is the first of your video's I've watched actually found it quite interesting
'Back in the day' (80's) programmable ignition didn't exist, even having two stage high / low was a novelty
You should have had a gas analyser on it to show how much fuel just goes down the pipe when ignition is fixed too close to TDC, hydrocarbons are always high but showing how much is either burning in pipe or just cooling it down is always interesting (at least to me)
Personally, too much over rev capacity is a bad thing, (unless you like re-building cranks ?)
Big end fails when bearing / bearing cage overloads and skids with high centrifugal load (silver plated cages on 125's in 70's~80's)
I'll check out a few more before I decide subscribing
When you develop an optimum ign curve on the dyno, how much "fine tuning" do you typically do to the curve after testing it on the track? Besides rider, what variables dictate further adjustments from dyno to track? Is it air quality and elevation or strictly just chasing tame usable power?
We have "fine tuned" our dyno process to shorten the track testing aspect.
Most shops really struggle with this concept and optimize an engine to a dyno run (load time of their dyno and process they use). We have tried to optimize our dyno procedure to match what we have learned works on track. Lot's of variables go into this - how much fan on the pipe - and load time - how many runs you do back to back to back to back in what coast down town etc.
It's a whole video topic in itself. But once we have a good ignition and jetting combo - we might vary it 1-1.5 degrees in a few spots to suit rider request. We usually sell our CDI's with 2 maps - one we like and 1 we think people might also like thats a little different.
For the most part - what riders generally like is a little less hp in trade for a little more RPM.
@@HPRaceDevelopment thanks for the reply, I just sent you an email regarding a consult
what system are you using?
Awesome job man, can we see some power valve adjustments and what that do? I know the 105 has the aux spring removed . My son really likes the aux spring removed on his 85 as well
The older Husky Cr125’s with some good porting and a modded CDI make more power than the newer ones. Now what I’m looking for is usable power. Pipe tuning is another aspect. It all works together. Love this info.
i dont know about that…The older husky 125s used a T port exhaust and very yamaha like cylinder. For us, the current ktm/husky jetted right makes incredible stock hp
and properly built even more incredible mod hp.
That said I havent tried to jazz up the old school husky so maybe your on to something
@@HPRaceDevelopment I was thinking the 98 up like Chiodi raced to a world title with. I have a 2000 and a 2002 that needs bored and plated so I thought it made sense to work it over and see what I could make happen. Fast by Ferraci has a few JD race ignition cdi’s left over with some pretty good maps. With more R&D I imagine some more power could be found. Thinking GNCC XC3 ripper and a good setup for whoops/SX style stuff.
OP got a question for ya.....as the amount of 2 stroke oil is increased in the fuel mix (richer mix) should ignition be advanced more? In other words does 2 stroke oil make gasoline burn slower or faster > more oil=more ignition advance spark?
Not that we have experienced.
Love these man !! Brilliant
Great videos, thanks for the info we know your time is valuable. How about FWE Cobra 2023 50 cc worked on an all out fire breather yet?
not legal for any racing we do...anyone who says they do anything to them that will pass the rules is either lying or cheating
@@HPRaceDevelopment
We are in Northern California and only have ama races for Loretta’s.
For that we use a new stock bike, but everything else allows full mod 50cc motors we also have Mammoth mountain that allows big bores most run 60cc but the Cobra 65 piston is dimensionally compatible also but may not be any better going to 65cc.
But it sounds like you haven’t done mods to the 50’s So Cal and Nor Cal have some fast minis think you could build one that would be better? 🤔
@@raymondharold5973 The current 50 from cobra jetted well is quite good. id be very surprised to see one thats still a 50 be better overall engine combo. Any peak gains you make trade power width - which is critical on a single speed
The 60s of course can be very stout vs a 50
@@HPRaceDevelopment The mammoth motors are definitely faster but the mod 50’s some are and some are slower but with a complete system wide change done well some is left on the table you would think, don’t you have a CDI that could be programmed or is there not enough business to justify doing that. I’m wondering what a project like that would cost, I’ve seen that you take a system wide approach and that’s the only way to not miss some potential performance. Any interest ?
@@raymondharold5973 always interest - just never much free time! We are adding on and making a lot of shop changes for the next year - hopefully by fall/winter we have that rolling and I can have some more free time for projects
do you use a inertia or a brake dyno for this?
I have 2 dynos one is a water brake and the chassis dyno is inertia with a brake we can use
The inertia is far better over the years - and ironically now lots of nascar shops have switched over to inertia as well
@@HPRaceDevelopment okay thanks, So you usually use only inertia on your chassis dyna without using the brake? is with brake not better for adjustments because there is more load on the engine
great video,how much earlier do you start pulling timing to extend the overrev? 500rpm?
everything is kinda like a delay on these due to pipe temp taking time to change
so u start pretty early just barely taking some out - and work from there
the straight ignition tests are good for us too, revisit what the engine likes. i was really shocked by some of it at spots how close straight was to a nice curve. years of 2t advancement for measly gains ha
what about power jet? in my 2006 rm 125 manual says it is open from 9000 to 11000 rpm. could i get more top end power with smaler main jet and compensate with bigger power jet? will it kill botom end? (it´s already have none)
The powerjet properly utilized increases bottom to mid while maintaining good peak.
do they make programable cdi's that will work on pitbikes?
Not my area of expertise. Im sure someone does.
Great video! Would this apply for all bike or just TPI / TBI bikes. I don't see any cdi's for my 2018 KTM 250 XC carbureted (with lectron) on the website.
this is for all 2 strokes
we offer cdis for the ktm250 and 300s
in your case what you want to change is the question
@@HPRaceDevelopment After watching both of your videos its clear bikes ignition curves respond and act differently based on what parts you have on the bike, mine is almost fully suited up with engine mods beside the high performance 2 stroke head which I will be picking up soon. As in what I would like to change I have no idea 😅but a more optimal ignition curve would be nice like shown on the dino.
Have you gotten any ‘23 husky TC250’s to play with yet?
No, only 300 so far
Great review
Would this mean that fully ported engine with custom Pipe made to work at 12 000+ rpm is gonna need less timing
Than what? An engine need the proper amount of timing for the design at every RPM.
When i was a kid, we used to call them Rev Boxes 😂
TOP video.
Very cool
Good curve power
thats a really nice explanation ... the only problem is 1 hour of dyno is like 150 EURO here in germany ... so getting my 125 smoker perfectly tuned with carb and cdi and all i will have to pay like a thousand euros .. :(((
@@sebastianclauss4537 welcome to what it costs us the shop to do r&d
Would u need a re mapped ecu if u put an after market pipe?
If you want a real race bike.
@@HPRaceDevelopment so I can send u an ecu and u can tune it for a yz250 that just has an fmf system and vforce reeds?
@@adriangalvez5104 no. Requires a new cdi
2,3,4,5 degrees from stock or literally before TDC ? Would stock be say 12 degrees and never 2? Does any motor run at 2? So if you retard the timing it's still before TDC ? Not experienced sorry . Cylinder head temperature goes up if ignition is advanced ? How does it effect pipe temperature ? Cool content thanks .
You have to ask a little better here. But those are absolute values vs TDC.
I thought they were , because the timing retards as revs increase which is inverted for a 4 stroke .lf you started at 2 degrees firing couldn't get to after TDC, it's just not that obvious for a novice . The burn is inefficience for 2t , i wonder how efficient a jet engine is ? They do have power to weight %. Thank you .@@HPRaceDevelopment
show me some exhaust temps !!!!
Paying clients get that!
Great video tho!
Nice, good job... Now, Show us how you mapping the cdi programing , to get the best result HP and TORQUE ...
i did
Why am I watching this my bike has points.
@@jellolon8435 lol - i think some ultra nerds (EE majors) have variable ignition curves for points bikes too! Way above my pay grade
@@HPRaceDevelopment Nah its a 1979 50cc so I think ill be fine staying in my mechanical lane :D was a helpful watch anyways tho. 34.5° Before TDC by the previous owner was a bit much IMHO.
Do you know where the lens is? Why should I listen to you if you don't even know that?
then dont watch, thx!
Or you could buy AKTM TPI bike and not worry about any of this junk.
You mean the bikes that make shit power, overal run very poorly, cost a fortune to tune if you wanted to tune it? No thx!