The Role of Tradition in Orthodoxy
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- Опубликовано: 29 апр 2024
- Fr. John Valadez is the priest at St. Timothy Antiochian Orthodox Church in Lompoc, California.
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I never knew this before. This makes so much sense (regarding the purpose of tradition). It always just seemed like a pride thing to me, but a light turned on with this. Thank you. I have been wrong.
God bless you Father and God bless you Roots of Orthodoxy!
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." - St. Paul's 2nd Epistle to the Thessalonian church
"But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."
- St. Paul's 1st Letter to St. Timothy
Saint Paul speaks about keeping the faith “according to the traditions I have given you”.
Orthodoxy is the tradition
The tradition is Christ crucified, dead, buried, and resurrected.
God bless ☦️
God bless You Father
Thank you for the educational video
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We are so blessed to have him as our parish priest in lompoc ca!
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I will leave your information below this comment.
Honest question:
How do we know exactly what the traditions are?
The Faith give us the rules,Not the rules the Faith ❤
Huh?
He isn't talking about rules. He's talking about the Faith and it's historic context which is handed on.
Tradition is simply the interpretation of Christianity as understood by the apostles.
Protestants replaced them with the traditions of men
The Roman Catholic Church was the first Protestant Church.
Christianity is preaching the Gospel. In Christ alone.
That's exactly what it was and still is for Judaism and the Pharisees and Rabbis too.
That's begging the question.
yeah, the whole question is whether the tradition is actually apostolic.
☦️🕊🔥📿🙏
Another question. I want to learn more about orthodoxy, so please forgive my ignorance.
Is it safe to say that believing in tradition is a step of faith? For example making the sign of the cross. I think this goes back to the third century. I don’t know if the apostles did this, because it’s not found in the Bible, but it’s found being practiced in the 3rd century. So to say the apostles passed this down as tradition. Would that be considered a step of faith to believe that?
I’m not saying a person is wrong or anything. I’m trying to understand more. Thanks!
Is there a means of correction in tradition?
It's clear that some of the traditions have developed over time and have been picked up over time. Is there a means or process by which the Church looks at the history of things and makes corrections or revisions?
Are their Traditions you’re referring to after the Seventh Ecumenical Council?
@@djnv4702 I'm just asking in general. But I guess yeah traditions that all came before the seventh ecumenucal council.
@@JVTRUTH I think the opportunity is during Synods but that's off the top of my head .
It really depends on who your asking....those who are spiritual and much more spiritual than everyone around them, or the follower, the blind who does not know until they told so.
@@dianetigert1310 ok thanks for the thought bubble righteous without an answer
Please forgive my ignorance. I’m still learning about the Orthodox Church. I want to make sure I understand this correctly
There is written tradition which is the Bible, the word of God in our hands. And then there is the oral tradition which is passed down by word of mouth.
Is it safe to say that the traditions/practices going on in the church which cannot be found in scripture are the traditions/practices that have been given orally?
I’m coming from Protestant background. So when I see something being done that is not found in the Bible, is it safe to say this was something that was given orally? Thanks so much.
Im not orthodox either, a fellow inquirer but what I think is important to note is that the words they spoke but arent written are acted upon. People lived like ignatious for example, he lived and he hear what was not written
Would it be out of place to cry "Anaxios!" if Met. Elpidophoros ever visited my parish? If so, why?
You catch more flies with honey, brother.
It’s not your place to condemn a bishop (or even a layman). That’s what a synod is for
He says the oral tradition "by this time has already been written". What are these writings and why are they not part of the cannon of scripture?
I can only envy those who were not raised up as heathens such as myself. God forgive me.
Did Jesus write letters ?
Did he write the Gospels?
The role of Orthodox tradition then, is that spiritual authority comes from church fathers going back to the beginning of the church. Like this father taught this, and that father taught that, down through the centuries within the church. A family tree of church fathers. True? 1 Timothy chapter one, Paul identifies that those who teach genealogies teach a false doctrine.
The context of endless genealogies was that the early believers were puffing themselves up by discussing their genealogies and their self importance-thus, getting into unprofitable arguments that led to factions. Reading the genealogies in the New Testament, for example, is not the issue: nor is it a prohibition to keep records of apostolic succession to bishops over the years; nor is it a prohibition against people studying their own genealogies.
2 thessalonians 2:15
With real respect, I don’t think Fr John is looking at 2 Thessalonians 2v15 in its context. Paul is talking about what he told that church when he was with them in person (see Acts 17). It is pulling that verse out of context to apply it to hundreds of years of church history.
In addition, his comment at 1:54 about separating Jesus from his qualities or characteristics is begging the question. It assumes that the traditions accurately represent Christ’s teaching. But that is the point in question. Icon veneration strikes me as such a clear example of ahistorically imposing a tradition onto the church.
I don’t say this to offend anyone, and I wish everyone who reads this grace in Christ. I appreciate the content this channel puts out, it is educating me.
Edit: I mis-spoke about St Mark of Ephesus and had confused him with someone else, so I removed my statement.
It only takes one example to disprove the false doctrine of sola scriptura.
Paul telling the people to remember what he told them (which is not spelled out in scripture) means there are traditions not written in scripture that were to be observed.
I will as ka question about alleged icon veneration as "clear example of ahistorically imposing a tradition onto the church" claim. Based on you assertion should we conclude that doctrines related to Holy Three are also ahisorically imposed as they were put down in writing at the Ecumenical Councils after several centuries since the ancient Church inception.?
@@johnnyd2383 hello friend: when you say Holy Three do you mean the Trinity, and the doctrines from the first few ecumenical councils?
@@tjkhan4541 Yes.
@@johnnyd2383 thank you, I just wanted to make sure I understood you. Grace to you, man.
No, I would not say that, because the Trinitarian debate was different from the icon debate in important ways: the Trinitarian position is more clearly in line with Scripture, and the timeframe of the debates are different.
I think the totality of Scriptural evidence aligns much more easily with the Trinitarian conclusion than for Arians, Nestorians, Neoappolinarians, etc.; whereas the totality of Scriptural evidence seems not to align with affirming icon veneration.
The timeframes are different in that the icon debate did not really get heated until the sixth or seventh century at least, whereas the Trinitarian debate was much hotter much faster.
And the evidence for icon veneration during those earlier centuries is just not present, and the early church fathers write against practices that would align with icon veneration.
Use scripture that mentions "Tradition", then declare that only my church teaches the correct unwritten tradition. I'm starting to be convinced that the Church will be "one" on this Earth.
It’s one thing to have non biblical tradition, another to anathematize over it as if it is necessary for salvation.
they are necessary for salvation
2 Thess 2:15 clearly states there is biblical tradition. Also mark 7:8 warns against traditions of men which go against the biblical teachings.
Holy Tradition has a place in proper interpretation of Scripture when it comes to important doctrines such as baptism, communion, handling false doctrines, etc.
Proclaiming Anathema is an example of a biblical tradition…
Without them you lose your way
Check out the USA today
These oral traditions Paul was referring to in his letter to the Thessalonians. Is that where he taught “Sabbath is done away with…as is His whole calendar so we are keeping Rome’s count…yes yes we CAN make images and to bow and serve them… oh and we CAN eat pork now”
because he did NOT demonstrate these teachings yours claim…
and until you do you make Paul a typical hypocrite Pharisee teaching one thing and doing another.
living as He did is the standard…makes sense His bride would…
yours do not demonstrate you live as His Word/Torah became flesh in order to demonstrate for us as an example the lifestyle where “I AM”
His house is NOT divided as Christendom is
OR KILLING EACH OTHER as yours is in Ukraine…for what making Christmass Dec 25 on the newer Roman calendar?
…love others as He loved us…JUST AS…includes His diet and holy days
Is it ever licit to celebrate a new holy day that was not proscribed in the Torah?
@@joshuadonahue5871 the claim is that His Bride has authority to live NOT as Her Groom demonstrated...
because "traditions whether by letter or speech"
which Thessolonica occurred about the time of the Jerusalem council so any NEW DOCTRINE from Paul would have been implemented then...certainly implicated him later at his trials...but "NEW traditions" was NOT on the list of charges against Paul...his teaching One resurrected was.
And yet EO claims NEW TRADITIONS despite His sealing the New Covenant lifestyle demonstrating it PRIOR His death sealing it for us...
And Paul told the civic minded Celtics "NO CHANGES after the death of the testator" Galations 3:15
maybe THAT'S WHY new traditions weren't introduced at the Acts 15 council...nor an issue during Paul's trials...
You must be a Seventh-Day Adventist.
@@thekatarnalchemist they believe as yours do “His calendar was done away with…we’re on the Roman one now…”
At least they understand that He didn’t do corrective surgery in Mark 7:19 As if describing the digestive process as into the stomach and purged out into the sewer makes all food clean.
Apparently for centuries any defiled food the Jews ate did go into the hearts defiling them.
@@makenoimage I think I get what you're trying to say but it's still a little unclear. None of us live _exactly_ as Jesus lived in the first century so you must mean something more specific. Are all Christians to follow the Torah exactly as Christ would have followed it? Without any alteration? Also, do you take Paul to be authoritative and just misinterpreted by Christendom broadly? Or was he the start of the problem? I want to understand where you're coming from--if you have a particular tradition or teachers you follow, it would be helpful to name them
Tradition would be the gospel.
The Gospels are most cetainly the central Traditions of the Church, and are what the other Traditions are closely bonded to. The Traditions of the Church are like an instruction manual on how to understand the Gospels and the rest of Scripture, and how to live them.
When you strip away the Traditions, you simply have the Gospels and your own personal ego of how to decipher and live them... and end up with 40 thousand mini popes who preach their own personal interpretations of Scripture to their congregations, with people looking for the particular church that agrees with what THEY have decided how Scripture should be interpreted.
@@ArchangelIcon tldr
@@Hitlerstopjew I'm sorry about your adhd.
May God bless you and provide grace and clarity.
@@ArchangelIconwith real respect, the 40,000 figure is a gross misrepresentation. That number came from data counting the same group in five countries as five different groups.
And again with respect, I’m sure there are people who only value their personal interpretation, but the bulk of evangelical Protestants don’t operate that way. Sola Scriptura is really a modest position. All it’s saying is that Scripture is the only infallible rule of faith for the church. It’s the only infallible voice and source of God’s light to us. Grace to you, friend.
@@tjkhan4541 whether it's 40,00 or 4,000, it's the same principle. Even Luther's own disciples disagreed with some of his re-interpretations of Scripture. The infalibility of Scripture is not in dispute. But without a 'user manual', or recipe book, you get an endless variety of end results. This is the whole purpose of Tradition, so that everyone is united in the same result and the one truth from Scripture. There cannot be many truths. May God bless you and all of us.