My Rant on the Crazy Mythic+ Affixes after a week of Beta Pug Testing...
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- Skip to 5:00 if you want to only hear the discussion about Affixes and keys.
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BLOOD FOR THE ALGORITHM GODS
Now for the actual meat, I think it's worth to track both sub-12 and 12+ stats for the disband rate, and I agree that the overall disband rate starting at level 7 will be about 80%.
My own math says that 15 now is close enough to TWW 12 that 15 now = 12 TWW. Once one clears the 12 TWW wall, the key gap level will be 3 keys over right now, so a 16 right now in S4 will be 13 in TWW, and a 20 now will be a 17 in TWW
For the subjective portion, as a healer, I'm glad previous affixes are gone since I can't reliably trust pugs to handle their share, and that will free up SOOOOOOOO much mental bandwidth to plan out how the party will live.
If I was playing with my static, affixes are a non-issue because I play with some 5head big brain people who are *quick* about affix management.
Editing here to add - Aspect-equivalent crests will be awarded starting at +9 instead of +6, so there's actual gear-based incentive for people just vault filling to push higher
+20 keys right now are bleeding edge, RWF-level keys. Per Raider IO, as of right now, AV's been the only key cleared at 22, every other key is 21 or lower.
And as someone that pug heals, I will ruthlessly, mercilessly, and gleefully make meta demanders' lives worse. It's infinitely better to take someone who's ride or die on a spec good or bad over a fotm reroller.
Thanks again for explaining all that!
From the+10 siege of boralus i did, everything was so unevenly scaled in there it was hard to tell really anything... The trash that threw fire bombs had a lot of health and took long time to kill, but their 1 second cast spamable ability did between 50-80% of dps players health pools. It was inevitable players will die on those pulls.
Boss fights super easy in comparison until you get to the last boss and the dot ticks for 1.5 million every 2 seconds and healer dispel is 8 seconds cooldown. Yeah good luck with that!
Theres no way they will be able to balance all of these things in just 2 months, season 1 could turn out to be very bad unfortunately
Ya, sadly I think it will be a mess and likely cause backlash that gets the whole system rethought again.
That SoB was wild though. Can't believe that trash damage.
Especially crazy given how it wasn't anywhere close to that high back in BFA. How did this happen!?
I hope they make a change to the added time for deaths, I can only see a huge amount of toxicity in pug groups when someone dies. Healers will get blamed and also tanks if they pull too big.
Ya, unless something unseen has changed about timers, this would be the death of pugging on its own, in my eyes.
The real penalty when someone die is having to 4 man the trash/boss ... that's already more than 15 second lost ( unless he die at the very end of the pull).
I doubt DPS will change anything about how they plan with this change.
As a tank i don't even answer to ANY criticism anymore. They can vent once(!). If they continue i can find another group ;)
As a healer, I agree with peterpain. They get one polite vent, and anything beyond that = "lol go fuck yourself with a cactus" next.
I cant imagine anyone ever wanting to risk their own key with random people ever again with the death time change.
I'm doing +15s right now in season 4 as a healer. Not only you combine fortified but tyranical but also add 3rd damage modifier? That's completely unnecessary. I feel like it could work if it would be broken up into 2 different keys - the +2-11 and "heroic" mythic+ key where they don't decrease in level when you fail, could also scale the gear and make it accessible to each dungeon after you've finished +11 on that specific dungeon. Make it so that those who want to push have the consistent experience - and we all know it's not about the gear, it's about the skill... so if someone wants to do hard stuff - let them have fun in the game.
Totally agree
Hey Metro! I appreciate your thoughts. From that interview a few weeks back, they said they wanted to tune and have a reward path for keys beyond 10. In practice, having tyran and fort both active each week is the equivalent to having neither active. I think they’ll tune it so that every class/spec can achieve whatever the new highest rewards will be . By no means do I think their cooking with m+ is done. It looks pretty bleak right now, but M+ is such a large pillar of endgame they cannot afford to let it stink that bad even for just the first season.
Oh btw I never heard your reasoning for going bloodied blade over sanguine ground? I remember the last time we spoke about it you seems dead set on sanguine over blade.
Great stuff as always Metro!
Oh ya, I think I discussed that in stream. Basically just seems like Bloodied Blade is more valuable for physical damage reduction, which is what I was struggling with the most.
You fix this by removing Tyrannical and Fortified. Allow keystone level to dictate difficulty, not these absurd scalers that having a massive impact in +12, I wanted no affixes, but this isn't it. I don't like the low-level affixes, I don't like fortified, and I don't like tyrannical. The +7 timer increase from deaths is also stupid, nobody wanted this. The reason +12's are stupidly overturned is because of all the scalers multiplying together. Why are they doing this? Why does Blizzard care that top players can do +20s? Why do they want all those scalers hit at once? Why is keystone level not enough? I don't get it, but Blizzard needs to react fast in my opinion because this is a scaling nightmare.
I agree totally.
I'm starting to lean toward the idea that they should compress the levels down even further. Instead of having all the levels from 2-12, maybe:
+2 = +2
+4 = +3 (affix 1)
+7 = +4 (affix 2)
+10 = +5 (affix 3)
+12 = +6 (affix 4 - guile)
And from there you have the "infinite" scaling possibility.
That way, each +level has a significant bump in difficulty, and most importantly, people will be in far fewer 'brackets' - everyone that would be +4-+6 is on +3, everyone that would be +7-+9 is on +4, etc.
The fewer brackets is the main thing I like about the season 4 changes. I would be in favor of this, but I don't see it happening. Its quite aggressive.
Where do you think the portals should fall in this situation though?
I think 20% modifier on +12 is totally unnecesary. As you say it makes jump from 11 to 12 really hard. And for players pushing high it just means they are going to do 20 instead of 22. Having tyranical and fortified every week and 15s death penalty just means people will need to pay attention to use of defensives more, which is fine. And pulls will deffinitely be smaller which is also fine as in current season size of pulls is usually much bigger than needed which often cause wipes. Mostly on middle keys. I would give a try to everything except 20% modifier. And maybe move tyr + forti combo from 10 to 12.
Well idk if its as easy as "pay attention" haha.
Seems like we agree with the rest though. These stacking modifiers are going to make there be a huge jump.
Pugging is going to be terrible with this.
I thought season 1 of SL and season 4 of DF was bad but I fear this is going to be much worse.
Ive just now got into 11s with my main, Brew Monk. Why so far behind? Work/family/life eats into playtime.
As a casual, if you will, these aren’t changes that are going to breed success, rather a toxic timer on top of a toxic community will bar my chances of success further.
Time will tell. I’m sure I’ll lament in your chat about my difficulties.
Ya me and you both, likely.
I think them trying out new stuff is overall good in any case. The old affix system was really annoying. Now I get less annoying affixes as a casual player who wont probably push higher than +10s and more hardcore players get a consistent experience where each weak they have equal chance to get better and push harder. Your point of it being super difficult with the +12 affix is valid but its just a numbers problem and it could be fixed with finer tuning but i think the overall idea of dungeons being the obstacle not the affixes is a good direction to go.
@@MegaMadDog32 I just worry the tuning would be very complicated compared to now and they already have proved they are not able to balance the dungeons well.
The way I see it, that jump at +12 is just like going from heroic dungeons to mythic, or heroic raid to mythic. I think the main confusion is that it does not have a different name, it's all M+. If they had introduced it as "After +10, there is a new hardmode without rewards and purely to push yourself with the highest gear called [insert name here]" then it might have been different I think. But that is essentially what I feel it is, the next difficulty after M+.
I do have a question that I want to ask every time this topic comes up. After +10, it's just pushing for the sake of it. How far beyond the intended content do you expect to be able to go?
Also, pugs usually don't go as far as pre-made groups, so if it stops at +12 for pugs, and 15-16 for groups, how is that different from how it is now? It might be lower numbers, but I think the difference will end up being relatively the same.
@@Rattja as high as I can. Usually I'm hindered by a few things in top of just pugging though. That's what makes these changes frustrating. The deck is already stacked against me.
I just want to make some progress weekly is all. Doesn't have to be much. But these changes make me think I won't be able to do that.
The previous affix system they sent into the beta was awful but this one is terrible too, for different reasons.
First, Blizzard assumes that gamers who are not doing high keys are not pushing keys: it's entirely wrong. A lot of players don't have the talent or the time to push high end keys but they're still trying to improve.
Second, Bliz assumes that all high end pushers just want to do the same route again and again. I'm sure some will but I highly doubt that it's the case for everyone. Even the MDI and the TGP will be a lot more boring without affix.
So, Blizzard answer to the elite players is to create an elitistic version of the game and a wall between them and the rest of the pack. But if I reach 11 and can't even go through a pull in 12 because the step is too big, how am I suppose to keep on trying? or why am I suppose to keep on trying? I would rather go to something else more fun in another game or irl (like laundry).
I'd rather keep sanguine and bolstering than this system.
@@jeanlandry69 same
Why is that guy using 1.1*1.1.... instead of 1.1^6 or whatever lol. Looks a little ridiculous
@@quintit unsure, you can ask him. He is currently throwing a tantrum because he believes me reacting to his comment on this video is a violation of ethics.
For the new affix that spawns orbs did you not find value in using gorefiends? With your example of grim batal you could target an orb and gorefiends as you run away. I was using it pretty successfully and managing to get about 90% of them each time. I can see pugging becoming terrible since DPS will zug zug the adds/boss and completely ignore the affix, then blast the tank for dying when the boss has a huge amount of increased haste cause they got orbs. I'm holding out on judgement but pugging has been pretty rough throughout dragonflight so not sure how this is supposed to help the M+ scene.
Oh absolutely. If it wasn't for me and gorefiends we never would have killed that fight.
Metro said it himself, the only people anyone is listening to are the big streamers pushing top 1% with established discord push groups who have been playing together for years. And they play wow for a living.
They think this is fine, but also they don’t have to deal with the garbage bear tanks from Rag or Quel’Thalas who seem to be the only tanks who sign up for mid-level pug keys.
This is gonna be rough. Blizzard is really not hitting on several different hero specs, and a lot of classes are hurting for improvement. And Blizzard seems to only want to talk about Delves. No one cares about Delves, it will be forgotten content after about a month.
M+ is their bread and butter and no other game has this game mode, and they really only seem to care about what Max, Dorki or Tettles are saying about things
Delves could be great tbh, but I agree that M+ is the unique piece of content this game needs to master in its development.
I watched you do a couple of dungeons on the beta, while the affixes some were annoying and some felt like they weren't there, I noticed a bigger problem. This might be just me, or you just didn't get the right groups, I can't say what caused it, but the dungeons look very shitty to play, maybe it's the beta and they are just over tuned, but I can't say I watched any of the dungeons apart from Mists and said to myself "wow, I can't wait to play that." This is just my personal observation, I would like to hear more of your thoughts on the dungeons themselves.
@@her0268 ya the dungeon pool is bad. The dawn breaker one is the worst dungeon ever made, and seige of boralus is top 5 worst ever. Grim batol is great though. The best remake they have done thats not a full one like uldaman etc.
But the war within four are gonna be brutal.
Been playing some blood dk on m2+ when tank left in an ubdergeared comp. Loved it to be honest, 4 manning half the dungeon just to complete it with mr switching to blood from unholy. Will be a hard decision be I might switch main from Ret to Blood DK. Love your videos man
@@vaughn7899 nice, it's the most for spec I've ever played for sure. If you have any questions lemme know!
well..if +12 dont have depletion...i could que my key again and again and if alot of people quit there..that are probably the ones that right now decrease my enjoyment of pugging so....maybe even a good change
I think they should consider doing that honestly.
No idea why this hasn't happened yet. I'm pretty sure Content Creators have been saying it for soooo long but blizzard decides to rework affixes and just scoot on over that
As far as im concerned the highest key in the world can be a 13 or whatever and I do not care. Never seen the point of having key level go to absurd numbers like people doing 34 keys in some seasons. What is the point of having 25 dead key levels just so you can get to the actual difficult content. And I think blizzard agrees thats why they made the change.
@@icswack6015 ya I totally agree and agree that blizzard doesn't like it either. It's a big issue because you have people going from like 2 to 12 and thinking "wow I'm crushing these" when in reality they haven't even started. Really bad.
Honestly, I think they are ruining m+, or making it mediocre, or not giving it the same amount of attention... Because they want Delves to be better than m+. They want the new expansion feature to not be overshadowed by m+. That's really it.
@@ericv738 that's a really silly thing to say. They have given more attention to mythic plus in these last two builds than anything else has gotten total.
I think they will fix it by the time the season releases - it would be against their interest to not have people on the treadmill (because they want subs and want to make money). The stats right now probably say more people as a percentage of the playerbase do M+ over mythic raiding, and it would be stupid to make M+ un puggable.
Sadly they have made decision after decision that seem to indicate pugging is not on their radar at all.
When I heard they're going to implement kiss-curse affixes and kinda separate the top-end keys, my ideas on how they would go about it were totally different. Like for example I thought they would remake the current affixes into kiss-curses - like make Storming targetable, you can either dodge it for no buff or stun it and get x% haste for 10sec; bring back Explosive and give a stacking x% crit buff for killing it or like a mini enrage effect etc. - so that people can get different stats and effects from different affixes and the group can decide before the key who's gonna do what, so that the classes that actually benefit from the stat/effect would deal with the affix. And then for the top players maybe just turn off affixes from 20(ish) up and let them blast?
I think this is a rather erratic solution to something that wasn't so much of an issue.
"a rather erratic solution to something that wasn't so much of an issue"
That is my exact thoughts haha
I would rather them rework the old affixes too, love that idea!
One of the Big issues with Thundering as an affix was that it was the rare affix, and I think, the only seasonal affix that could happen during bosses, so because all the test cases were probably not actually tested, you had some impossible situations where you had to stack and spread at the same time. Sounds similar to that one Xalatath Bargain affix. Affixes during bosses makes things incredibly punishing and sometimes borderline unfair
Yup same situation as thundering.
Move far but run back there and deal with those 20 orbs or you will for sure wipe.
I think the scaling you describe is quite similar to how it felt in BFA going from let's say a 20 key to 21 or 22 keys etc, the scaling becomes exponentially harder with each key level increase.
And it doesn't "feel" like you progress methodically, but rather you hit a brick wall that feels seemingly impossible to climb.
@@bojnebojnebojne right so now that feeling starts way sooner and is more severe. You are describing normal key scaling, just heavy difficulty present. This is that, but jumping from 20 to 23.
@@heythereguysitsMetro Yeah, each key jump becomes even harder than it used to and earlier.
I don't think it matters that much in terms of how early those jumps happen as long as it's not close to impossible for pugs to make their weekly.
No one really enjoys one shots, just becomes boring to play at that point.
In my opinion at least.
I m still going to do 8-10s on a weekly basis. But pushing might become harder and harder.
Ya sadly sounds like it will be for all of us.
i havent tested the new affixes yet but i do agree with a lot of what youre saying. it seemed like blizzards whole philosophy with m+ before was to make keys feel different every week to keep things interesting. which in part i do agree with. and now were just gonna have the same set of affixes every week for the whole tier? that doesnt sound very fun either. getting rid of "push" weeks i think is great. but this aint it. having fort + tyrannical every week just sounds like hell too lol. also pugging in s4 of DF already feels miserable. i think pugging is at an all time low. it seems like that problem is just gonna get worse.
Ya, sadly seems like its gonna get WAY worse.
@@heythereguysitsMetro hopefully they hear these complaints. if 12s are as bad as people are saying im sure theyll take notice.
hot take= keep tyran and fort biweekly. make the gile affix the 10+ affix=boom fixed scaling issue allowing pugs to go higher
I would be fine with that. And then they can keep the two scoring system.
@@heythereguysitsMetro im hard dooming the both portion of tyran and fort just due to each one was a big identity for m+ imo and also took a good portion of the time for each key. adding both ontop of the 15s per death now seems like they want pugs to struggle hard.
I just watched a top 1% rant on top 1% shit. Sorry us mortels do have a bad time with sanguine and bursting... Skill issue surely. But who cares. There is now the skill issue m+ side. And the skill ego gods side. But yet you still don't like it.
I'm sure +20 will still be done.
@@MrHardpal you just hit the nail on the head. It's a skill issue, so why are removing it and replacing it with something even more complicated?
Also I was about to correct you on the 1 percent comment but I looked it up and it's 3218 which is exactly my score right now so fair play haha
@@heythereguysitsMetro grats :)
I mean no harm to the 1%. Actually gg.
Pugs and 2k8 io and under (I'm 2k837) still find it more fun to bash aoe cc to get 20% haste then to kite the hell out of sanguin making it impossible to play specs that rely on ground effects to aoe. And having a kick done every 30th February... And yes even in 10+ keys (which isn't that high I know). Pple tend to put the brain in the freezer before starting ^^
@@MrHardpal Well that's what I'm trying to tell you. I pug all of my keys, and the affixes sound bad on paper, but they do not cause issues anywhere.
They may not be "fun" but they are not causing keys to fail.
This new affix will, simply because it will spawn on bosses, which wipes during DO cause keys to fail alllll the time.
It might be insightful for you to look at my spreadsheet of seasons and their stats tbh.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uaDILs0xd4Hk08S7lR27jdMIzs3raMhOqTzFCv_ScsU/edit?gid=178554530#gid=178554530
The first day of the beta change play the "new affix that will save m+" was a miserable experience as a tank or dps because as a Blood DK you end fight solo all the time because the dungeons do heavy damage all the time some dungeon have tank buster every pull; other need heavy interrupt silence (they change the way mod skill go in cd now you need interrupt or silence to to prevent casting if you do cc they continue when is expire) ; the new affix mess with your dps in to many ways; the get some of your damage is you have cap aoe they take some hits, you use the cc in the orb and no in the dungeon...etc
Right, the keys are way harder than is realistic to test the actual affixes at this point.
The gap between 11 and 12 kinda remind me Legion, where Tyran and Fort were the last affix.
The whole point of Blizz moving them to +2 in BFA onwards was that people were complaining about too big gap between 9 and 10. What do we have now? The very same situation.
And it's not even first time which Blizz undermines it's own solution to an old problem - personal loot was created to solve loot dramas in LFR, now LFR does not have personal loot, while the dramas have returned.
Ya its that but way worse!
but this also isn't true, cause in terms of Vaults, portals and getting max ilvl gear from M+ stops at 10, so technically there is no reason other than the challenge to do a +12, whch is exactly what the 12+ brings, and it does it in the most passive way. now is might spike the difficulty up to much for some people, but that is exactly what that affix is there for, for you to either get better and play the dungeon better, or you don't. As I said the +12 affix does nothing but challneg people wanting challenging content.
@@orsikbattlefate3976 Did you just not watch the video? A 12 is far harder than you think a 12 is, mathematically.
That's what's being discussed here, as well as in this comment.
@@heythereguysitsMetro well my main point was that the affix itself is only a difficulty check, as you dont have to do 12's for anything other than the challenge itself.
@@orsikbattlefate3976 that's not different from how keys ever are at this level. Not sure what you mean by that sorry.
I wish i could have been there in the trenches battling beside you brother. At least you would have had one group member guaranteed not to drop. Lol. I won't comment on the changes because I have no first hand knowledge of them but it sounds ominous. Which, given the dark turn WoW is about to take lore wise, seems appropriate. Lol Brave heart my friend we will battle through whatever they throw at us eventually. You are too good a player for it to shake out any other way, and I will , as i always do, Kop my way through. 😉
thanks man hope you are feeling better
Hey Metro, I'm planning on creating a video showcasing my 7-year journey in Mythic+ dungeons with toxic pug groups. I want to know if you'd be willing to watch and react to it. I believe we need help. As an off-meta healer, I've been solo pushing keys for 7 years, ranging from level 25-28. I'm still getting used to the new system of levels 15-18. I totally agree with everything you said in the video. Looks like we're in trouble in Season 1 of the War Within.
@@rebemma8643 absolutely interested!
100% with you all the way about the affixes man everything your saying about them I'm just screaming YES! THANK YOU! bolstering and sanguine are not hard affixes yet people just like jumping on the band wagon of hating them and finally hearing someone not brainwashed and being real is such a delight to hear
@@lurrtz thanks for saying that. Does feel like brainwashing at times.
I still like the direction with the new affixes and still vastly prefer this over keeping sanguine, bolstering, raging (assuming they keep improving week by week)
Dungeons are currently too hard and gear is too low, I don't feel like I can adequately test the affixes.
I hate Guile, I don't need the jump there, its too big.
I think Peril can be ok (at best) but only in a game where damage and healing are much slower. With the spikes we currently have, this is way too punishing.
Ascendant sounded great, but I hate it. It's locking up AoE stops and seems in practice like a mechanic that should only be present in high keys to properly bait the balls and have assigned CC for it, so other CC can be used on stops. Its very punishing with uncoordinated and unaware groups.
Frenzied needs to chill out on the haste value, this again seems like something that requires CC chains and CD planning with the current values.
Both of these +2 affixes heavily rely on AoE CC, which will be a "low meta" defining thing for healers and tanks. As their ability to solo the balls or lock down low HP mobs is very different.
I don't think that is the right direction for +2. I think it would make more sense to have the balls require Slow/Roots/Knockbacks to highlight different utility and make everybody shine than to focus on the same/similar utility.
They should remove Tyranical, rethink Peril. have the +2 affixes be more kiss, less curse, require less coordination, and utilize different kinds of utility and have the jump from +11 to +12 just be that you lose the kiss (no Guile)
Agreed all around. Funny how the low key affixes encourage more coordination than anything haha
My biggest concern with all the changes was simply how long bosses will take, Ive been watching people test 12s and stuff, and shockingly bosses are only lasting like 2 1/2 min.. at that ilvl. So i feel like they changed how scaling might work for bosses. i mean theres bosses in live s4 right now that take longer than that on 12/13.. If scaling/tuning is good we'll be fine if tuning is ass its going to suck until they fix it. Highest give ive personally done on beta so far is a NW 10, We pulled last boss with 13 minutes left (healer dc'd and never came back).. It all comes down to tuning
Ya, you are right. It really puts the stress on the tuning.
Wild to hear about the boss fights though!
So I’m sorry you’re really upset about this but look at the bright side. This will most likely change two or three more times before it goes live. I’ll tell you tho why I’m happy with it. When they mentioned no affix for 12 and higher my biggest fear was bfa season 4. Doing a 10 was easier than doing 7-9 because of the affix. If they did something like that ever again everyone would run 12s and higher and 9-11 keys would be dead. If your 12 key got bricked you would just be done doing keys that week. I really think this new system when we’re all geared we’ll be doing 13’s and 14 will be the struggle bus. I think max key will be an 18.
Hmm maybe! I wouldn't say I'm "really upset" though. Just a net loss from what we had before in my eyes.
Not sure how a lot of players thought the latest change to the affix system was a huge win when the worst affix of them all is still in the game: Tyrannical. And this was something pug players and top players agreed on for a change.
The last affix will most likely get tuned % wise as a lot of people are voicing the same concern about the jump in difficulty being to jarring to become something like a 1 key level jump, so a 12 would be a 13, but I feel a lot of people are glossing over or not even thinking about fatigue. Affixes originally were meant to increase difficulty but also to provide variety because people apparently don’t like doing the same dungeons over and over again without any changes. And that’s gone now. If rotating dungeons was seemingly the way to go because of fatigue with a larger pool of affixes, I’m not sure how removing affix variety will end up helping.
Ya, biggest concern for me is that lack of rotation meaning players hit their cap quickly and then have nothing to keep them going.
You make a lot of really good points about this, several I hadn't considered before. A big one is that death time penalty increase at keystone 7. On the surface this seems like a reasonable thing to add to make the run not necessarily more challenging, but less forgiving of mistakes. From a blizzard mindset I can see this as being a way to ease people into higher difficulties, and If this was combined with a longer base timer then this could be a good thing for lower key runners. However, as you point out, the disband rate is already very high, and that affix will also increase the disband rate at higher keys even more because one death or one wipe means chances of timing go greatly down and people bail when a death is already punishing due to the runbacks. A few questions for you (feel free to answer these in a future video if they are long/worthy): 1) Do you think they should try to give more incentive to complete keys rather than disband? and 2) If so, what are the sorts of things do you think they could do that might reduce the disband rate? and 3) Do you think this death penalty affix is a way blizzard can balance allowing shorter runbacks? (i.e. they make the death penalty longer but generally have more checkpoints or shorter runbacks in dungeons)?
First of all, thank you so much for helping me with the weak aura! Very generous to do that, and I won't forget that kindness.
As such, I'll share with you my detailed thoughts on these three questions.
I'll start with 3.
The death penalty COULD be a way of balancing run backs, but at this moment they have not demonstrated they are making any changes to run backs.
There are still a lot of dungeons with massive run backs, and I frankly don't think they consider those at all when it comes to timer tuning. If they did, you would likely see more consistent placements over the years.
So for the rest.
1). Yes, they not only should, they need to. The pug world is going to get hit hard by this change, and that may make players stop playing their game.
It wont happen, but it would be easy to do, and i have been shouting loudly how best to do it since BFA. I would happily let Blizzard use my idea and consult for free on how best to tweak it.
2). The solution to the disband situation is obvious to me. There is plenty of reason to finish keys already, but no one prioritizes them. So why would that be?
Because they value something else higher to such a degree that everything else is eclipsed.
That thing is score.
Players only do keys for score, especially higher ones, and that simply needs to change.
The reason people care about score is because it offers them a feedback and reward structure for playing more and getting better.
So the obvious way to fix this, in my eyes, is to give them a way to get that feedback and reward from FINISHING a key, not just upgrading it.
Any way they do this I would be happy.
But my suggestion is my favorite still:
Create a currency that comes from simply finishing a dungeon that you can they use for progression. So here's how I would do that.
> A small amount of currency spent can allow you to reroll your key.
This has been added as a feature where it wasn't when I first started brainstorming this. People have said that instead of a random reroll like we have in the game now, you can use it to buy a scroll that would change your key to the scroll. Allowing you to buy a few until you get the one you want and save the ones you dont at that time for later on. but still tbd. I would be fine with them removing the NPC at the end of the dungeon and making this the only way to reroll the key.
> A medium amount of currency to protect your key. Meaning you buy a scroll item that when used can be applied to your (or maybe other people's keys too??) keystone so that when you use it, it does not go backwards, but consumes that protection.
and finally
> A high amount of currency to UPGRADE your key. This has been contested over the years, but I maintain its needed for the system to be truly valuable.
So the day to day would mean players would be seeking keys they know they can finish to get currency to protect and augment their own progression.
It creates an incentive to get good players to do keys they don't need and still care about them.
And then once you have the currency you have a few decisions you need to make.
Do you want to bank a bunch of rerolls until you get the Azure Vault equivalent over and over again to progress easier?
Do you want to keep doing your own key until it becomes something you want, then commit a few allocations of resource to protecting it many more than once to practice and master it?
Or do you want to go all the way and upgrade your key because you feel like you can do higher than your current progression allows?
There has recently been a sub-branch of this discussion I like too.
A fourth option. Protect your key so that it can't be lowered further than your current progression, or perhaps what level credit you got from the vault.
This gives players a chance at a minimum progression threshold they can focus on each week without having to spend dozens of hours gathering currency for the system.
Anyway, if you read that all, you are crazy. Sorry, but I had a lot to say haha.
The old affix were never meant to be fun but a challenge I get that but doesn't mean we should be wanting to keep an unfun system or force people to play on unfun weeks just because we had to do it back in my day when it was harder so you cry babies shouldn't complain and run them in this super nerfed state. We have had really fun seasonal affixes so they can design them to be fun and challenging. I don't personally know if I really want completely vanilla m+ at a 12 either but I'd personally want to give it a try at least one season and with the buff they should be able to balance everything after a 12 a bit easier on it's own without blanket nerfing everything before it so that 11-12 doesn't feel like a reinforced brick wall to anyone on the threshold of pushing beyond 11s.
I do think any time your key down grades from a 12 to an 11 it is going to feel like a completely dead key that one one ever wants to do. At least that is how it is likely going to feel with my group of friends.
The problem with "fun" is its just not designed that way. The content is meant to be fun. People mistake any challenge with "unfun" so no matter what the affixes do, people will complain. Its not productive to prioritize fun, because it will compromise challenge and is subjective.
They tried their best here, and we see the results.
Not good at all.
There should be a different score for 12+
Different everything, really.
Belive that gap is going to be bad for the puging scene for people trying to push, personnaly i take my main to 2500 and portals and then i goof around alts a farm crest. Because that is challanging for me. But feel for those who push above 12 in the pugging world
@@oskarkristiansen635 gonna be real tough for sure.
ur doing 15's u dont see how ass sanguine n bolterin is on a 17-18 u brick a key less then 30 seconds n its cuz they bathe in sanguine or bolstering last season with eb one pack super bolsetered on a 27-28 it one taps u
a
I don't believe you, sorry.
Especially with Bolstering, that's totally within your control.
I think the extra time per death affix is bad, the game is more popular and more fun when there is room for mistakes to happen. The affix with npcs appearing to be ccd should be disabled during bosses or at least heavily reducing the amount of npcs spawning. On fort and tyr they could definitely do some tuning there as well if needed but I think part of their tuning is based on the kiss curse affixes increasing dps and hps output
@@stuff4812 right that's the part that scares me the most. How do you balance an 11 with the affix that buffs you across from a 12 that is mathematically way harder and has no buff.
It's gonna be like jumping across the grand cannon I feel like.
When i saw the afflix changes i instantly went "they had me in the first half"
what happened in the second?
@@heythereguysitsMetro the murder of the pugging. honestly i would rather have bursting and i main healer and i hate bursting. some of the changes that are comming like the 15 sec deaths etc its gonna cause so many disbands.
I generally think tyrannical etc being removed till higher keys is fine and afflixes idk it sucks cuz most people dont bother dealing with them and it ruins the group but when people do it and play properly its like watching the best movie/song/w.e being put together.
Even with all of the afflix changes my biggest fear/negative thing about next season is the dungeon pool i dont know the TWW dungs to well and can only go from what i hear which has been kinda negative but thats nothing new ofc but the necrotic wake and grimbatol and siege of boralus is some of the worst dungeons i have played
@@Yugelol Oh ya totally agree.
I'm curious to see what the other 4 or so xal'atath's bargains are. Frenzy seems like old raging with a kiss, I wonder if the other ~4 will feel like older affixes with a kiss added as well.
Ya, that will be interesting to see for sure.
I think a lot of people do only +8s for vault loot because there are SOO many 520+ lvl characters that do less than 200k total dps on my pug keys. They have higher ilvls but they do not know how to play their characters.
Yup, exactly. So all those people need to be discounted and removed from the total when discussing what it means to push keys regularly.
I would estimate half the total characters are just alts or characters that do not try to progress.
That math is ridiculous, it's quantum mechanics level of difficulty.I do not understand why are they complicating matters so much.
Ya well to be fair most of it is just how keys always work. But still, super complicated.
I personally don't like how keys change dramatically at the higher levels. I think some of the reasons why M+ is so popular is because it's more or less a level playing field where if you do a +2 or +22 is just scaling so you are doing the same content as the best players just with decreased hp and dmg of the dungeon. This separation of the player base might alienate people or perhaps fuel more elitism. Idk, the more I think about these changes the more flaws I find in them but who knows.
My thoughts too!
I think they need to seriously tune down the numbers from 11-12. The issue with it going from essentially a 11-14 (in this seasons metrics) is that players seeking to climb keystones, regardless of what role you are playing, use those keys in between to improve and build confidence. I am okay with the affix changes but this needs to be addressed.
Yes totally agree. Also, if its possible to double upgrade an 11 into a 13, that would likely be far easier than upgrading a 12.
Yeah let's keep affixes that people don't enjoy. Bro lol
@@paneoce they were in for 8 years man. What's your point?
@@heythereguysitsMetro well exactly? Because they were there since the beginning of M+ doesn’t mean they should stay lol. They can’t innovate M+ if they’re just going to keep their old work.
@@paneoce Exactly what? Did you enjoy Sanguine in Legion? Why do you think it stayed in the game for 8 years?
@@heythereguysitsMetro I’ve never enjoyed Sanguine. Why do I think it stayed? Because Blizzard most likely enjoyed the concept of Sanguine. The “exactly” was pretty clear. It’s been in the game for 8 years and you can’t innovate an end game pillar without change. They’re changing the affixes completely which is huge and has been well received from a lot of comments and content creators I’ve seen.
@@paneoce Glad to hear you recognize that them being fun is not the motive behind them being included. Only took 3 comments, not too shabby!
based off raider cutoff data only 10% of players do 10 or higher so players do not wanna do higher keys because theres no reward besides title so unless they have title they will not push higher has nothing todo with affixes
@@robertyoung6401 I debunked this in the video.
10 percent of all characters is not the same as all players.
I pushed upto 26's in season 3. On one hand I am very excited that I wont have to suffer as much time to get back to that point in TWW if its equatable to a 13. On the other I fear that I may get hard walled faster than I ever have before.
@@shadere2434 ya sounds like it's gonna be the latter.
I have never been so worried about pugging in m+ before. I sincerely hope we are completely wrong somehow and it'll be a smooth experience
me too! But sooo much needs to change between now and september.
I think the best way to solve everything, from scores to difficulty is to just add a drop-down menu when u insert your key, where you can select any affix in existence and stack how many of them that you want, and u get a multiplier on your key's score for each. A +10 with all affixes (all 12 or however many there are) gives as much rating as a +16 with none, and everyone can choose what they want to do with their specific group. priest groups get bursting, hunter/evoker groups go raging, etc. Blizzard said they don't want a single 1 solution for everything m+ related, so why not let every group customize what they want to do in every key?
wont happen. because some affixes will never get used adn that is not what thye want. they want everyone to be going against the same things at eh same level.
@@adverbs626 ya have to agree with this here. It's a cool idea for a game where the community isn't the way it is. But that ain't this one haha.
I think they are moving in the right direction and agree with what your thoughts are. I think more tweaks will need to be done and possibly either make the 15 sec 7-10 or maybe either do away with guile and keep the bargain or something. But my first thoughts even though I like the direction I do think pugging above 10 will be so toxic it will ruin it quickly. The issue with the previous affixes aren’t so much hard but just overall unfun. I don’t have issues with affixes but they are either ones that are deemed tank or healer affixes and/ or just such an unfun affix.
ya but sadly they werent there to be fun. hopefully they can make these work out better.
@@heythereguysitsMetro I get it and they should be there to make the dungeon harder but sanguine especially I hated. They were all much better than in the beginning days but in pugs they were just too punishing and made the entire dungeon runs not fun most of the time and the dungeon is supposed to be enjoyable in some way. In a coordinated group they’d all be minimal in issue most of the time but in the pugs where ilvl way > skill it made it so rough.
seperate it into 2 kinds of keystones.
+2 ups to +11: seasonal affix, farm gear, put transmog in +11s, let this be a game mode that you can finish on a character
+12 and higher: scale the gear, remove the variations, let the people do their thing if they enjoy it
Love that idea tbh.
these are bad changes. idc
You don't care about what?
so, the 3.3k+ player who pushed 16 and above will be happy.
the more casual crowd who only did vault keys won't notice.
but the 3k IO ( the toxic range in pug) who struggle to push homework keys will get even more toxic / deplete more?
Ya, sounds that way. If you are doing near 15 now, it seems you are primed for punishment in this new situation.
@@heythereguysitsMetro sommething I don't understand: why is it fun to push key without affix and why it would be funnier to do keys with affixes? For those who can't go over 12, you're stuck with affixes, deal with it. For the others, who are basically more equipped to deal with them, now you can forget them.
Oh, side effect to this: I won't have any interest in videos on key above 11 because they won't teach me anything I need to know about routes.
Maybe it would be the easiest for the spreadsheet to just add a dummy affix-set that you can put when your key is 12+
Ya well that will require some one who understands math to do haha. I'm clueless when it comes to this stuff.
Been trying to avoid beta footage as I dont have access to it yet its nice to hear what people think of it so far without seeing any potential footage of keys, spoilers etc.
@@shadere2434 well it's gonna be rough if you don't prepare for these now tbh. But glad it worked out!
I think there's a few things to change for sure, triple the death penalty is way too much. Then having Fort and Tyran with an additional 20% scaling just seems odd, if they wanted to remove the positive affix part then just remove that and you are already adding difficulty since you won't have those buffs. Something you mentioned however, getting an easy upgrade on a 11 and then getting pancaked on a 12, I imagine that's a similar feeling those high level players get when on a 'push' week you can do an 18 but on a specific affix combo you are stuck doing a 16 (just throwing out numbers). I think at the end of the day the game has to be challenging to keep you engaged but it should also be fun so I'm glad they got rid of the annoying affixes. I just hope they can figure out the balance and scaling before season 1 drops. Maybe as a last note they should change how much Fort and Tyran scale, maybe cap the HP of bosses to a certain percentage and then only scale damage, turning a dungeon boss into the length of an end raid boss just isn't as much fun since it isn't designed in the same way (raid bosses having specific phases, etc where a dungeon boss just repeats the same 3 mechanics for 5+ minutes)
Well I was talking about in one hour of one week going from success to utter failure. We will see how it plays out.
@@heythereguysitsMetro yeah for sure it's more impact when you hit a wall and you continuously go up against it for hours in a play session vs the feeling of the next week is going to suck because we can't do x key level anymore. I did like the idea of a scoring system based on the affix maybe with unique titles for affix combinations so even if you didn't need them for overall score there's some reason to try and boast that you go the top sanguine score during a season. I think with this little time left before the season they just need to stick to one system and see how it goes.
Yeah that added death timer is gonna be awful. Insta-leavers in pugs for less than 5 deaths.
@@thechartech ya it's really gonna be a mess. Can only hope timers will be joke mode.
I can only agree with you. I noticed that the tuning in the new dungeons are completely off the charts. Additionally while I do like the idea of "being consistent" every week - this is literally what I raised concern meaning the "new affixes" are essentially a bigger time-loss + more difficult than our current affixes. Yes, it's consistent but at what price?
Take even a sanguine week lets say +17 Neltharus - that's a nasty one with sanguine anyways. if you do sanguine well you will end up with 200-250 million sanguine healing, which if we take Magmatusk as a reference (200 million hp on tyrannical) its a 1 and 1/4 magmatusk = 4 + 1 = 5 minute addition to your timer. Essentially what it means that if you do the dungeon perfectly on +17 tyrannical you need to accomplish the dungeon in [base timer - 5] minutes. But if we stick to our example on tyrannical the trash is easier and none of the current affixes affect bosses anyhow (unless you pull trash to boss on sanguine weeks and you heal the boss up).
When in S4 DF I see people having really hard time - meaning even Magmatusk is a DPS + healer check on 16-17, then how should average pugs do tyr + 20% dmg on boss fights? Not even talking about trash mobs? Just imagine how Neltharus would look like with the new M+ system.
You have trash which on fortified kills people without any +12 additional dmg bonus, you have bosses which can wipe you on tyrannical weeks, and now they are getting +20% bonus dmg just in case you are lacking something. Now you will have both. Are you having fun already just playing around with the idea?
I did try beta keys on similar range and even with our premade (knowing mechanics) we failed miserably. It's pretty similar to reaching 100% enemy forces in Brackenhide - which feels quite bad ngl.
Again, I like the idea of "more consistent weeks" but having fortified + tyrannical at the same time + 20% dmg increase is just pure trolling. we either change base tyrannical or fortified multipliers (e.g. tyr and fort multiplier starts from 5% increased dmg and scales to inifinity and beyond --> e.g. +10 --> 11% dmg multiplier) or just change +12 affix.
I remember even before Season 3 DF we tested keys and we had no issues timing "just" fortified or tyrannical keys, but as soon as we added "just for fun" Fortified + Tyrannical" the whole experience turned into we are barely timing 20s.
Ya, well said all around.
Big thing it seems is we traded even progression with affixes people didn't like for very hard and potentially discouraging progression depending on how 12s end up being.
I would have much rather they just did one of these affix types for all keys. The big shock of going from 11 to 12 is not something I'm excited for.
@@heythereguysitsMetro 100% agree. It could have been a new affix which doesn't require any specific classes (e.g. bursting --> priest / monk, etc) and not that disturbing / gameplay altering.
But I'll tell you even something funnier. All of the current "hated" affixes could be reworked to be nicer.
Sanguine 1: the pool stays for 12 secs and every mob takes 80% lesser dmg from you until they are standing in the sanguine pool.
Sanguine 2 (was my suggestion): the healing remains but sanguine has a fixed HP pool and is shrinking as much as it heals. So it's not an infinite healing spiral as of now.
Bursting: I dont think I have issues with this, bursting is considered as a "free affix" which really doesn't alter your current gameplay anyhow.
Raging: mobs do 20% more damage and can be cc-d (currently cannot be cc-d)
Bolstering: every trash mob dies increases the surrounding mob's dmg by 5%. With an 8 trash pull it would be TOP 40% on the last standing mob.
As per how progression will look like: We are still far from the end, but I'm really concerned how things look right now. I was doing 27-28s last season, now I'm doing similarly (17-18s), if difficulty changes again I will be happy to time 15s? :D
And yes, the leap from 11 --> 12 is pretty huge. I understand the philosophy behind it, but I just cannot understand who in the right mind thought "oh yeah that's neat". Currently keys are scaling pretty well and while of course you can feel the difference between a 14 --> 15 its more like a 14 --> 17 (or 18). Engaging and stuff I guess
Sounds like they don’t want people pushing keys beyond a certain level?
Sounds like they just don't care about pugs, is all.
still beta...
What's the point of this comment? You don't think I know that despite me including the word "beta" in the title of the video?
Things can and will change, and that is not relevant to why I made this or any other video.
But time IS ticking.
Maybe this is how it already is, but they should increase the percentage by 5% per new key level.
You want it to be even harder than it already is!?
I figure it’s a compromise from an instant 20% buff between levels
sounds like blizz really wants to seperate players there... "have fun in 11s or search for a grp to go higher"
can you still 3 chest a 11?
@@saenct Theoretically. No clue. I imagine if so, it would be far easier to get a 13 by double upgraded a 11 than upgrading a 12.
Triple upgrading an 11 would effectively give you a keystone 5 lvls higher thanks to scaling...
Isn't 10 where rewards stop?
Gear, yes. Score, no.
@@heythereguysitsMetro You talk of the +15 Pug crowd, but how many people are actually in that range? most the people I know who do above 10s are not pugging anyone.
@@edwinjuengel4168 Discussed that in the video. You can take what we said and extrapolate it up to 15s.
Looking forward to listening to this later
lemme know when
Hello
hi
@@heythereguysitsMetro ?
It was fun running a few dungeons with you on the beta!
@@eliotness107 ya thanks a lot!
Thanks!
Wow the generosity continues. I should be giving you money brother. You have no idea how you hooked me up with that weak aura!
@@heythereguysitsMetro you take time during videos to answer your viewers questions and comments and that's great, so wanted to show my thanks, you dont have to do that but you do and it's appreciated on behalf of all of your viewers! I'm a programmer and maintain some addons so its nice, and I main blood dk now so it's useful for me too!
@@typicalzergling9955 Awesome, well thanks again and glad its mutually helpful!
Lol quantifying exactly how those feelings are going to proliferate into the future? You sound like a first year English college student trying out a thesaurus.
k
Can’t find any friends can you. It’s ok and yes it’s always because of you.
@@captainkribble7665 gotta assume it was a joke. If this dude thinks me using the word quantifying and proliferate require a thesaurus that really speaks to themselves more than anything.
they will nerf it come one now
Nerf what?
@@heythereguysitsMetro the affex, some tanks can handle them better then others. By default they need to fix that. But i could be wrong.
@@Mortalitor52 which affix? The one with the 20 adds you need to CC? Has nothing to do with tanks. Everyone is meant to handle it.
@@heythereguysitsMetro i have tried the beta testing as well and i let my emotions get the better of me. I too was getting crushed. That is all really just frustrated.
@@Mortalitor52 Ya, was super frustrating tbh
feels like every affix change/nerf is just because DPS players are crying to blizz that they cant zug zug dps and they have to actually do something else while playing and that is sad.
@@Sodacacik ya it really is just that at its core.
My thing that I would have like to have seen in M+
1. Removal of Fortified and Tyrannical. I think bosses dont need to be harder but I think Trash should overall just have more total hp. Because trash is fun, and can be challenging and it helps with classes that have a bit more setup for dps.
2. 1 Affix per week but make it impactful. I think this is mainly what I have been looking for, nothing so far has really made you think about doing anything different. It 's just annoyances, Spiteful is annoying, Entangling is annoying, Incorp is annoying, Afflicted is annoying. Some of those add a bit of challenge but nothing meaningful, and like Metro said, Bolstering, Sanguine, Bursting didnt mean anything for like 99% of players doing M+. It makes the key slightly slower because you cant do the same giant pulls sometimes. but timer hasnt been the issue for a long time.
I think if the 1 affix per week, was like Seasonal Affix level, it would be interesting. Something to make you do something different. Like also what if there were an affix that affected the required trash count (I know teeming did this, but teeming also just added more mobs to the pack). So you had to go pull different trash than you do literally everytime you do the dungeon.
I liked the idea of one seasonal affix rotating weekly. I think they are kinda thinking that way too but its only for low keys.
If it actually goes live like this it will completely kill pugging.
That's my thoughts too sadly.
its going to go live similar to this. we are close enough that they artent going to go through another rework. theu will likely tune numbers and ship it. pugging is not likely a big concern for them.
Oh hey, it’s me in the video, the guy that specifically asked you to not use that comment in a video because I made it purposefully with long detailed lines of computations to see how little Xal’atath’s Guile was relevant, since you and other people were afraid it would make scaling harder (it doesn’t).
The very, very easy explanation for Xal’atath’s Guile is: it removes affixes but makes your key +2 level. It’s extremely easy.
But eh, it’s better to fearmonger and get engagement out of it, even while disrespecting the consent of people you include in your video.
I thought your take was bade, now I know your ethics is even worse.
Btw, in this video you’re still saying going from a 11 to a 12 will feel like going from a 11 to a 15, which is just straight up wrong. Again, Guile only gives a +2 level. So you can vizualize it as going from a 11 to a 14 or from a 12 to a 15 if you want, but saying it’s like going from a 11 to a 15 is just a lie. Either you really don’t want to understand or you’re purposefully lying to your audience for more fearmongering effect. Hard to say, considering your lack of ethics.
Thanks for explaining all that but I have to remind you, you made a public comment on a public RUclips video. Anyone can react to that freely. This has nothing to do with ethics and even if it did I did not misrepresent you or your statement. I simply showed it and reacted to it.
I genuinely appreciate you typing that all out, for real. It helped a lot.
When I said 15 I was comparing it to this seasons tuning.
Do you disagree that they keys will play at least one higher with all the new affix changes? The difficulty of the death affix alone should do that right?
@@heythereguysitsMetro I disagree with any sentence where the jump from a 11 to a 12 is implied to be more than a +3 key difference (+1 for usual scaling, +2 for Guile), which you did multiple times in your video. This is just factually incorrect.
Also, yeah, you legally have the right to react to it. Now choosing to disregard someone actively asking you to not use them to make your content, that’s absolutely an ethics thing and yeah that makes you kind of shitty. You absolutely have the right to be shitty, but that was shitty nonetheless.
@@Senen33 I asked some impartial people about this, because frankly it really bothers me that you would say that about me.
I try hard to be a good person and believe I genuinely have a good moral compass.
Not a ton of data yet, but everyone who I asked said you are overreacting.
My take away is you asked me for a favor totally aside from morals, and unfortunately, the favor is not something I can offer, because I needed this data to have this discussion, and at one point you obviously were willing to give it. I even used yours along side another person's data, and theirs is even more complicated but they willingly put it out there for people to use, so not sure what yours does differently in your eyes.
I honestly don't understand WHY you asked me for this favor, especially if you willingly offered it just moments before I told you about that. My first impression on that is that you were only giving me that data to try to prove me wrong, and if anything THAT is being "shitty" but especially petty when you then delete it because I tell you I plan on using your work to help explain this to other people.
At the end of the day all I tried to do was use your data that you wanted to give out to answer a question I had and I'm sure others have too, and I think I did that totally fairly. You should be happy, even proud, to help with that.
I can be belligerent at times, but my goals are always to help people, and I believe that's what I was trying to do here.
I'm sorry you felt offended, but you are really just taking this all too serious and I would appreciate an apology so we can move on peacefully from this misunderstanding.
Again, sorry if I upset you. That was never my intent.
@@heythereguysitsMetro "I would appreciate an apology so we can move on peacefully from this misunderstanding."
Oh f off.
It doesn’t matter how justified I am to ask you to not include my post in your video. If someone asks you to not use their work in your content and you chose to ignore it, you don’t to ride a high horse about it. Plenty of actual decent people would have maybe asked if they could use the content in a way that would be fine with me, but you didn’t do any attempt of the sort, you just unilateraly decided that you could do whatever you wanted with it because legally you can. And ok, you can do that, but don’t expect me to apologize for saying this is a shitty behaviour and be angry about it.
"Again, sorry if I upset you. That was never my intent."
You willingfully disgregard my request just because you could. I don’t know that it was your intent to upset you, but you definitely didn’t give a single f about it.
@@Senen33 This is really getting childish now man.
Here is EXACTLY what you asked me not to do.
"Please do not include my messages in a video as a way to make easy math look complicated."
I didn't do that.
I even replied to that comment saying I only meant to present it as the data you provided and use it as an answer to my confusion.
Are you saying I did not do that here? Because if so, I would call you a liar, and frankly a drama queen at this point.
All this confirms to me is that you did not actually post that with the intent of helping people understand, as you made it sound in your original comments.
You just posted it to sound right on the internet.
I gave you a chance to be the bigger man here.
You wont sound right about this one, so we can move on as adults and accept each other's apology, or you can say "oh f off" again and continue acting like an entitled child and we can move on in other ways.
Please man. I'm sorry. Accept the apology and do not make any more accusations against me.
If I misunderstood what you said or something, idk.
I'm sorry about it all. I did not intend to upset you, and I do not feel like I misrepresented you, or used your PUBLIC COMMENT ON MY RUclips CHANNEL maliciously.