FN Browning Hi-Power vs BDA-9 On The Range
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- Опубликовано: 28 апр 2021
- It's always interesting to be able to try two particular pistols out next to each other on the range, particularly when one is a modification of the other. In this case, the Daddy-Gat is a 1974-dated FN Browning GP-35 Hi-Power, and the Son-Gat is an FN BDA-9 (not to be confused with the other BDA9 which is a rebadged SIG P220). Both are in 9x19mm (Parabellum), and the question is, did Fabrique Nationale actually make an improvement, or wreck it?
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Herstal FN GP35 
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every time I look at Hi-Power I cannot believe how much ahead of its time this design was :)
Hi Kuba, good to see you here. You're absolutely right - the fact that the age of the Wonder Nice only really began in the 1970s is puzzling. Maybe it's because it took a while for FN's patents to expire?
@@FireflyActual i think its more to do with shooting techniques and people actually caring about pistols
@@FireflyActual Hiii :) I guess it took some time to phase out revolvers, smaller caliber pistols, etc. Maybe the growing threat of terrorism contributed too. Like Munich massacre...
@@FireflyActual Actually, it's because it took time for bullet development to enable the 9mmP to level the playing field between it, .38 S&W Spec wadcutters, and .45acp; until hollowpoints became a thing, the round nose ball that all 9mm semiautos required offered sub-par efficacy to either .38 Spec shooting semi- or full wadcutters, and of course, .45 acp RN made bigger holes. Enter HiVel & Detonics & others, & all of a sudden it was a whole new world, and the wonder nines surged to the forefront...
It's so weird, they were the only double stack pistol through 4 decades before anyone tried to compete.
The HiPower is a real classic and still has some life in it.
Ah, yeah but FN doesn't agree...They've stopped making them as NOBODY was ordering.....
This is me engaged!!!
For Bloke! For Chap! For The Algorithm!!!
Browning P-35 Hi-Power, the most beautifully presented 9mm ever manufactured😍
Well, nice to see I'm not the only pistol shooter who thinks the trigger is a bad girl who wants punishment.
This video deserves a like for the fact that it's the first and only video that I know of that actually features a BDA-9/HPDA pistol in depth.
I always wanted a double action Hi-Power, but they were unobtainable in my area back in the day. I managed to scratch the itch with a CZ-75, which I truly love. Thanks for sharing.
The CZ75, though a different design, is what I consider the successor to the Hi-Power.
I have an Argentine FM Hi-Power (wish I had grabbed a Canadian surplus Inglis when I had the chance); just about the most comfortable pistol I own. Once I install the Browning ambi safety, it will be just about perfect. Another thing I really like is that I can reach all the controls without shifting my grip.
Nice cap by the way 👌. FN HP DA was my military duty pistol 20 year's ago and somehow I missed it. It was good gun when you learn where to aim😁
Rarely see anything on BDA-9, thanks for the comparison vid!
Even though the HP is considered obsolescent, you are not poorly armed. Maybe not my number 1 pick, but it is definitely in my top 5 selection for a combat pistol.
Let's be honest, pretty much any decently made and reliable semi-automatic pistol in an appropriate caliber ever produced is going to be good enough for the vast majority of practical usage.
But modern polymer framed double action pistols just have large advantages over any older generation of pistols. Whether for military or civilian usage.
That isn't a dig at the Hi-Power or 1911 or anything else, it is just the fact that time marches on and we have much better materials and production technology in the twenty-first century than pre-WWII.
I loved my Hi-Power! Traded it away for an iron-lunged Harley Davidson FXR just before the Harley market exploded circa 1991. Could have bought 5 Hi-Powers for what I sold the FXR for just a year later. I bought a beautiful Beretta 92 instead. Super reliable, but I hated it at the range. That thing chewed up my fingers something awful. Funny how different people have different issues while shooting identical guns.
I've always wanted a Browning High Power. Now I know I want the old school one. Thanks, Bloke!
Always appreciate your systematic approach to whatever you review. Interesting shooting range design.
I'm so old that when I was a young policeman, I thought those were absolutely cool. And I thought that real men would never carry a plastic pistol.
I don't think I'm that old, but I agree. Polymer just doesn't feel right in my hands.
Got a FN model 88 recently, fitting that this video pops up so soon after I got it.
Btw, thanks for the excellent content as always.
The consistency of your hold on target is impressive, Bloke.
Always enjoy the Friday video, been watching them every Friday morning on me coffee break at work, it's become a nice little tradition for myself this past year.
Nice to see some BAP content on channel, was in the Reserve Defense Forces here in Ireland not long after these were being replaced with the HK USP, never had the chance to shoot one during my time though unfortunately.
Anyway, thanks as always Mike.
Finally I've been looking for a review of these!
Very nice vid, Bloke. Good example of the transition to the "wondernine" fad. While the HP suffered from that small safety and the magazine disconnect, it's still ergonomically superior to most of those later whiz bang models of hi cap 9x19 pistols developed since.
I dunno, i kinda love the feel of a good CZ or sig wonder 9
@@marcusborderlands6177 you're right, Marcus. The CZ-75 is great, too. Love my pre- B!
@@marcusborderlands6177 I also carried a SIG 229 for the past 18 years 'cause I had to. It wasn't half bad. Certainly scads better than the Glock, but still not as nice as the 1911, HP or CZ.
So envious of the facilities you have available to you!
Thank you, for the video, love the channel!
I have had a browning hp since 1978 and fired a few rounds down range with it. It came with adjustable target sights, much nicer then the service sight.
Also carried the service browning no. 2 mk1 when I was in the CDN army, and have fired that, a few times as well.
Taking a course on the range the other day. Some of the lads had the new wounderwaffen pistols, sig, beretta, glock, and so on.
The old girl still held her own, some rounds were a little off but I think that was do to gravity fluctuation because of Covid. LOL
The browning still shoots better that me.
Take Care & Stay Well
Signed "To cheap to buy new"
Glad that you clarified WHICH BDA-9 you were looking at. I did not know there was an actual DA/SA Hi-Power.
Very interesting comparison. I've been around Hi Powers for my entire 'gun' life, but I've yet to actually fire a BDA. Generally I tend to enjoy DA/SA autos, so I've always been left to wonder if the BDA is fundamentally different from the HP. Thanks for finally showcasing one in such a high quality presentation. Also, gotta love those AWB-era magazines. I have a few made for a S&W 410 which hold a whopping 11! rounds, vs the compliant 10 rounders...oh, the joys of bygone days.
I’m offering up my engagement to the all mighty algorithm
Thanks for the great content, as always.
Interesting and worthwhile comparison. Many thanks! "Progress" is not always positive or desirable.
I too have a Belgian made Hi-Power I picked up while on duty in Germany through the local Rod & Gun club. I replaced the hard plastic grip panels with Hogue wrap-around rubber grips then fitted the rear dove-tail with a Leupold Delta Reflex sight. I now pile all the shots into the 9/10 ring with frightening regularity. It is so much easier to aim, or snap shot, I don't think I shall ever use open sights on a combat handgun ever again.
Good video! Lean into it, Bloke! 👍
On my Hi-Power, I removed the magazine safety and it made a world of a difference. With my Lyman pull gauge, I got an average 5lb 10oz trigger pull with the magazine safety in, without I averaged 4lb 11oz. The gun had a very low round count.
Finally, the first video of shooting the double action hi power
And it was never fired in DA.
Aloha; well done! My preference is the Hi-Power; you're results (while not for everyone) confirmed my choice. Mahalo
My experience with hi-powers is that the magazine makes a huge difference on the trigger pull. Older parkerized mags definitely add some grit and creep to the trigger pull, but newer smooth Mec-Gar mags are a significant improvement in trigger pull because of how the trigger/ mag safety plunger slides across the magazine.
If you remove the magazine safety (which slides on the magazine) you can improve that grittiness a little, but I agree - a slippery magazine definitely helps, and your magazine may ALMOST drop free.
@@siestatime4638 I tried pulling the magazine safety and ultimately put it back in. Without it I just didn't think the trigger reset was firm enough. Really I think the hi-power trigger woes are overstated. It's certainly not a nice 1911 trigger, but it's light years ahead of a Glock or M&P.
@@bebopwing1 Thats a good point about the oft cited advice to remove magazine safeties. Some people also like a positive trigger reset. Positives and negatives for everything.
The BDA-9 was one of my first pistols. It wasn't a terrible pistol but finding a holster or spare magazines at the time (mid 2000's) was nearly impossible.
Agreed,
I said screw it and just went with the universal IWB....
I have a BDM that I love. Fits my hands very well, and the ability to switch from DA/SA to DAO is nice.
im a fan of both chap and bloke i really love the hi power always wanted one i carry a wonder 9 because its convenient but i really like metal framed guns
Thanks Mike! I have had a Hi-Power since 1988(it even got stolen, scumbag neighbors) and it was always my favorite pistol. Had it refurbished in 2014 and it still shoots great. The BDA-9 sucked, fired a couple over the years and had no desire to get one.
Still like the Hi-Power and lament the day I had to hand it in. Of course, you could always remove the magazine disconnect to improve the trigger pull slightly. Thanks for the vid.
Don't need to even entirely remove it; as delivered, they just typically have too much preload on the shoe that rubs against the mag. Taking the trigger safety apart, you can sort out how much to clip off the end of the spring [in my '90s FEG HiPower clone, 2 or 3 coils did the trick] which will leave it with just enough preload to function, but remove a HUGE amount of the grittiness and creep in the trigger. Of course, you can always get high zoot trigger jobs, etc., but this one thing is something almost anyone with even a bit of mechanical aptitude can do for themselves if they just take some time & proceed w/ caution. And the best part is, if you cut off too much and want to go back to the start, the spring is a cheap replacement part!
I love the comparison of the firearms, and do not care about the shot placement or grouping. Having enlisted in 88 my first issued sidearm was an Ithaca 1911-a1. Just over a year later I was issued a first gen M-9. It literally fell apart during my yearly qualification. I said the same thing as many others, "WTF have I been issued" as the rage cadre are screaming cease fire as I'm only holding the lower of my pistol. That did not happen in this video but the premise is the same; a really good pistol (old) was pitted against new tech and it underwhelmed. Keep up the content.
I am a Glock person but I also have a BDA-9 and I personally love the way it shoots. Plus I love a pistol that is slender in design. I was training extensively with the Glock and got accustomed to it's grip angle, and when I transitioned to the BDA I realized I was shooting more to the left as you did. All I did tho was to carry my left hand a little higher on the grip and I was spot on with every successive shot.. would have been a perfect weapon if only it had a higher ammunition capacity. But I love.
I took the mag safety out of my MKii and had larger modern sights milled into the slide. Its my favorite pistol
Enjoyed the video. Been a HP owner /shooter for decades., The BDM I have has a selector screw on the slide to change the pistols action. As a lefty I welcomed it in the 1980s, Not a great trigger pull ,but useable in a pinch.
They were Not great seller. later from Texas .usa.
Nice video, I'm a huge fan of the GP35, I used to own two of them. It's such an underrated gun still nowadays
BTW You can easily remove the mag safety. It also improves the trigger by making it lighter in my opinion.
Underrated? Where? In the UK the Browning HP is legendary, used for decades by security services etc
@@owensmith7530 I agree !
I mean amongst the shooters, you often here people talk about Glock, the new sigs or the 1911 but when you show up with a Hi-power, rare are those that recognise it.
Which is weird because it's been around from a long time and it's widespread all over the world. It's almost the ak47 of pistol
@@StevesWorkshopSwiss The AK47 of the pistol is a good way of describing the Browning HP. Thanks for that,
Great comparison. I still like the Hi Power.
I did my APWT with both late model Browning HPs and older Mk 2s. By the 90s they they had gained similar 3 dot sights and an extended ambi safety. The grips were almost identical to the BDA. I believe they were hand me downs from certain units who had recently moved over to Sig 229s.
It's interesting how both FN and Colt failed so similarly in trying to make these SA legends conform to 1980s requirements.
A purpose designed pistol of its age will simply be better than an outdated pistol with a couple generations newer features jammed into it the vast majority of the time. And the same goes for most things.
Retrofitting an old design can save on development time and costs but pretty much always results in an inferior product. And when your competitors are putting out modern products designed from scratch as modern products it is tough to compete.
CZ got it right tho
FN still did a bit better than Colt.
@@borkwoof696 While the CZ-75 took some aspects from the Hi-Power, it was a new design from the ground up as a (for the time) modern pistol.
@@88porpoise Good point. It‘s definitely clearly much less Hi-Power-is than the BDA
My 1973 Mk.I hi-power is my absolute favorite handgun. The two things I did to it that made it perfect was a set of pachmayr grips and removing the mag safety.
The Hi-Power is probably my favorite handgun, and I carried one for several years. I miss that gun.
Love the Browning HP - shot that thing so much in the army, used to be on a pistol team. Nothing like what modern pistol shooting is now, however.
I've got 2 post war Hi-Powers sitting in my safe. I love the old school all metal pistols.
I love the hi power, its a very pretty design.
Great video
Interesting vid on one of my favorite pistols. Useless trivia: The change from the internal extractor to the external extractor occurred in 1962. Reference: "The Browning High Power Automatic Pistol" by Blake Stevens (!996; Collector Grade Publications).
The Hi-Power was the first pistol I shot and still the one I judge others against. Yes, there are better available though it's amazing how many don't match up.
I'm amazed you manged to swallow it in the first place.
@@jic1 Hahaha ha! I'll correct. 😂
I am awake! And more importantly engaged!
I've always had a soft spot for the P-35 Hi-Power. It was the first type of handgun I learned to use while in the military back in the seventies. My only regret was never getting around to buying one when I had the cash.
Just got a beautiful FEG hi-power with the ribs on top. Love it. However the mags that came with it might be causing all my woes. I keep getting nose-up failure to feeds. I’m praying it is something with the mags and that a new mec gar mag will be flawless. Both brass and aluminum cased ammo won’t feed which is super disappointing. I have to slowly cycle it manually and most of the time snap the ejector over the cartridge rear myself. I really like the thick sights on it, and am glad there are no dots on the sights.
The BDA-9 is still a great looking gun, that and the S+W 645.
God I miss shooting handguns, I might emigrate, worked for Craig Ferguson!
Great vid, keep em coming
I love the BSA Enfield patch.
My wife had an HP some years back, it was lovely, but the trigger weight was horrendous, so she changed it to an early S&W m39 with the lightweight frame.
I hear Lemming of the BDA preferred that 9 over the Hi-Power or even the PPK.
It's a man's life in the British Dental Association!
I like those pistol based videos. Making more content like this will also aid your trigger control before you jump into any IPSC once more. You could set yourself a pistol goal to reach before that. How does the Chap do with pistols?
Is there a lower chance of trigger bite with the BDA-9? On the dust on the lens...you could definitely do something about that. Stop apologizing so much and don't drag down you video mentioning everything that didn't quite work out for circumstances that aren't your fault like the position of the sun.
I have shot HP35's I love them they fit so well in my hand and are so comfortable in a way that more modern Sig Sauer and Glock's just don't. That comfort makes a huge difference. Then I have biggish hands but short rather "pudgy" fingers. I need things like trigger shoes etc to get a good fit and pull without having to contort my hand and wrist.
A beautiful weapon, Mike! I am somewhat jealous of you ! Oh well. Keep on, keeping on Man ! Later, Matt
I always wondered how FN failed to update the Hi-Power. Can we have a deeper dive?
They tried, but by the time this could have really gotten meaningful traction it was competing with guns like the 92 or 220. If a military had BHPs already, the BDA is not enough better to be worth the replacement process.
@@philips.5563 Bingo
FN focused on military sales, for which the completely amortized production line of the High Power was superbly suited, since militaries still preferred SA pistols right up to the mid-80s [safety] and of course, since pistols are of almost nil actual value on the battlefield, the cheaper the better.
My favourite Salt is Angelina Jolie 🤩
Splendid video Bloke, and any chance of a comparison with the CZ75 please?
Rule Britannia and all that, but Switzerland is the most civilised country in the World IMHO (except for the ridiculous speed limits...)
Like the comparison
Great gun and great times...
Interesting comparison of Two pistols separated by decades. I have an old P35 and it is from another era; oddly long reset, but nice crisp trigger release. Yes, most of the updated military designs had terrible triggers, but they were strictly service pistols, not target pistols. I love the crack about Finns hating the Browning and wanting a Glock!
Nice video on the differences between both guns - I enjoyed my visit and would come again - take that Algorithm
If the front sight is too hard to move, I wonder, what if the rear sight moved? Never mind, you'd have to move it the opposite direction of the front, too confusing, lol. Nice comparison video.
Y'know a thing that DOES go without saying in firearms reviews that really SHOULDN'T? "This is a sample size of one; your mileage WILL vary." The historical example here is the Brits and Soviets pulling exceptionally accurate service rifles for conversion into marksman/sniper weapons, while the modern example is the notoriously uneven quality control of Kel-Tec handguns (I limit this to handguns because I've never HEARD any complaints about their rifles, and my own SU-16C has performed flawlessly over the last decade+, though that is, of course, a sample size of one; your mileage WILL vary! ;-)).
Enjoy the engagement!
engaging. I like the hi-power :)
I always feel perfectly safe with the hammer down on a loaded chamber with the Hi-Power.(have done exactly this for 41 years with the same pistol). The bore axis on modern DA 9mm's is often way too high, especially if you are used to the HP. The CZ-75 was, for me, was the Hi-Power alternative. If you are drilled in competent, a SA automatic can be bought to bear as quickly and safely as an modern SA/DA polymer plastic monstrosity. ( I also own a USP)
As Requested one salty coment: NaCl, Pretzles, Natchoes at that local place, Acid + Base
I’m in the USA and 30+ years ago I bought the Sig 220 in .45 ACP. It had the butt magazine release. I never worked up a load especially for it but factory ammo and reloads for other guns were not accurate.
Im not sure at this point if I've shot more issued hi power or of my sig 226 (I hope its the latter) but I've still got to modify my thumb placement to not automatically disengage the slide lock on the 226
Norinco made a copy of the BDA, it was apparently a really unhappy gun. I was issued the Inglis BHP and own a Portuguese made FN HP
Ah yes, this video is very engaging ! I am that engaged
I owned both and while they are treasured for their historical value, I would never use them for self-defense because neither pistol would feed hollow points reliably and even certain FMJ rounds would fail because of slight differences in the shape of the bullet.
And here I am going backwards having just ordered new grips and a holster for my S&W Model 10 having carried a 6946 for years.
The HP is easily customized, commander style hammer, wide trigger, grips, removed mag disconnector, springs, trigger job etc bring great results. Check out the Cylinder & Slide company parts, they are excellent.
There was a steel plate shooting video that you were shooting a s&w revolver against a cz shadow. I cannot find that video any more. Which s&w model were you using? Gruss Tughan
I am locked in and fully engaged with this content... too bad this Bloke is talking over the best part...patching out!
A browning BDM 9 was my first pistol. Good gun, very Hi power-ish. But it had a stupid little screw on the slide to switch it from SA/DA to just DA, IIRC. Kind of a dumb feature, and it added complexity, which is never a good thing in a service pistol. It was also one of those guns with frangible firing pins that you cant dry fire, which probably had something to do with that selector mechanism.
I am very engaged with this video
I remember my Hi-Power back in the late '70s, I couldn't hit anything with it, I much preferred carrying a Sterling with which I could hit anything and everything. :D
British here, HM The Queen actually gave me a 9mm Browning Hi-Power, but sadly she took it back when I stopped working for her
A good story with a sad ending....
Requisite salty comment: NaOH
I so much want a Browning Hi-Power with a stock holster(or is it holster-stock?)
For the channel gents!
..the BDA appears to have a version of the 'SFS' - (Safety Fast Shooting) system that was developed for the BHP...
BDA kelly
Also... for the record...I still want a BDA9 (AKA, HP-DA) even though Bloke says the trigger sucks :)
I used to be in the Royal Australian Artillery, and NO, I'm NOT going to "apologize" for DARING to mention that "R word", lol! At the time I was (briefly) trained on the Model 35, aka Hi-Power, aka HP Browning 9mm, and I must say that your grouping is far better than what I managed to achieve 👍 On a slightly different note, have you considered simply "aiming off" to bring your "mean point of impact" closer to the centre of target?
Aiming off is not great at the best of times, and starts to come apart when you've got to do it at speed on targets of varying sizes and at varying distances. It's an extra thing to have to think about since your aiming offset .
Thoughts on the Arcus 98 DAC? It kinda has the same design goal as the BDA.
I'll help out. Pass. It's nothing like a BDA. Its blockier, cruder and everything feels cast. Iraq got a bunch. They were flea market priced.
I miss my browning HP i was issued with in the army in northern ireland and iraq after the HP we went to sig p226 which replaced my HP about 2 months into the tour. I liked the p226 but i did prefer the HP. Now with the role i do in the army now i pretty much carry a Glock 17 9mm every time i am on duty my least favorite pistol i don't like the glock yes it works but i would honestly choose a HP over a glock or a sig any day of the week. Shame the HP in the army just got shoot to bits in the end after something like 50-60 years service. I prefer the old pistol sights I'm a decent shot with a sig and glock but i was a lot better with a HP and i believe that is because of the style of sights. I don't know why the glock is so popular i honestly prefer the HP and SIG over the over rated Glock pistol.
Still nothing wrong with the HiPower, even after all these years. For someone with a service background - i.e. "shape your body to fit the weapon" - the pistol doesn't have significant disadvantage over modern systems. Many shooting team/SF types had exceptional performance with the pistol. Some of the SF weapons had the mag safety removed and the safety lever extended, but many used it stock. The design was mechanically quite robust; my pistol on Telic during 2003 was an Inglis - so that individual pistol had been in service for 58 years by then (and had evidently survived countless rounds of 2z!).
Very engaged
Much liked
Wow
The Hi-power (in whichever version the British Army issued) is the only pistol that I ever fired or ever carried in action. I was not a good shot with it so I was quite impressed by your group, Bloke. i had a corporal once who very almost won the Queen's medal at Bisley a few times - he could do extraordinary things with it. He had the advantage of very big hands; am I correct in thinking that the high capacity magazines, making the grip that much wider, just made everything more difficult?
I don't think that the HP grip is particularly wide, and I don't have massive hands.
The BHP, it's heavy, it's antiquated, but damn I shoot it so well!!!
Are you allowed to remove the Magazine safety on the hi-power? I've heard in America that's a common modification to improve the trigger
It is usually the first mod done to get rid of the abominable magazine disconnect. It is nice to be able to do a mag reload with a functional weapon. The modification does improve trigger pull, but I think it also lightens/weakens your trigger reset. BHP Spring Solutions have a trigger option containing a return spring that allows you to adjust your trigger return! It also changes the geometry of the trigger pull to feel more like a 1911 as JM Browning intended. Nice to see them correct design changes implemented by Saive.