This is why revenge cheating/hall passes is stupid. OP planned to leave his wife regardless and also lied to Sabrina about the divorce while courting her. He gets back together with his ex anyway. They're both trash and deserve each other.
There are a lot of stories coming out like this. For some reason feelings is the reason why they stay together. So basically after they stop feeling angry they get back together which makes no sense. The wife's always think that they can win the guy back. And this is probably the reason why they cheated in the first place. Because in the end the guy will forgive them. Weak men.
I sort of get it. It's sort of starting over but with someone you already know. They also don't have those people in their lives anymore, which is probably a big help. Crissy probably has learned what not to do. Hopefully anyway. They still have feelings for each other, for sure. Not saying it's right, just saying it is what it is. It's not for everyone.
No, she didn't. She had to deal with him seeing another woman, she has to be subject to searches whenever he wants, and she will no longer be treated like a cherished wife. The relationship was renegotiated into something more favorable for himself. It's not always about making the wrongdoer pay, but rather yourself getting paid. It's not like she's a monster.
@@yourdagan Yeah like that's going to work. Get real, she's just going to be more sneaky about it. She got away with it and if you think otherwise you're more delusional than he is.
The Eric guy got the real raw end of this while ordeal. Dude moved after his divorce to only get stuck by his ex's new husband who is his boss and is denying his request to transfer again. so stuck in hell
A simple trip to HR in that company explaining that his transfer had been denied as a way to rub his face in it and the ex's new hubby would have been toast.
Theres no way in hell i would get back with this woman after how I heard how she planned to never come clean about the dirt they did. And O.P. didnt do anything to mike after he violated. He might have been sent to the hospital 🏥 after the ankle healed up.
As a wife and mother, no I would not expect my husband to come back to me. Like it's one thing to forgive a drunken argument or lying about scratching the car or something. But you never forgive blatant infidelity, or driving drunk with the kids in the car or something intense like that. Ugh
@@henrywade-re1of he's a good man. He actually might try to make our marriage work like you said. But there's one thing I know about my husband: he will choose our kids over me every time it's necessary. If I make horrible decisions that affect our kids, he's going to immediately to what he thinks is best for them. It makes me love him more for this. There's one theory that spouses must put each other first over the day to day needs of their family because that bond, that marriage, is what will bring success to those kids. But he's in the thoughts of, "if my wife is good, she won't endanger my kids' health, safety, or mental health." And he's not one to forgive easily. I hope I never put him in that position in the first place though lol
OP shouldn’t remarry his ex-wife. If he does want to remarry her, he should draw up a prenup that’s draconian enough to hold up in court. Personally, the most I’d do is act like the divorce never happened but never get married again. That way, when she inevitably cheats again, you don’t have to go through another costly divorce.
They're not married anymore and she's not entitled to be treated like his wife. It's a new relationship where he has more control. Also you have to exercise some sense of proportion; her crimes and character are not the most severe you've ever seen, according to the evidence.
Out of all the stories I’ve read, why is this the one where I’m not pissed that the op eventually took the cheating ex back? I’m usually not merciful to doormats and cheaters, so I’m very confused with myself. 😵💫
Same. I'm pretty sure it's because of both how they got back together and also the fact that he got revenge by cheating as well and leading her on. It's like trolling a cat using a mouse on a stick. You lead them on and mess with them,giving them false hope and essentially toying with them before finally giving them the mouse. In this situation,he cheated right back,gave her as much time as she wanted, and gave her false hope during the threesome before finally ending things and getting with Sabrina.
I felt the same way and it's because he got his revenge and she agreed to be compliant. He wasn't abused per se, as in so many other cases---she's not as bad as the rest. As long as his desires are being met, with less obligations, it's not a bad deal really. They both learned their lessons too. And he already said he doesn't want to start over, which is a hard sell to most women under middle age.
Yeah i think once he realized he's just as messed up as his his wife, he figured he no longer had the right to judge her so might as well take her back lol
Wow, OP and Ex deserves each other. Poor Sabrina. She got the wrong end of all of this- Cora too. Can you imagine the emotional back and forth the poor girl went through?
I know you commented three months ago, but my parents actually did remarry/divorce twice. They were young and dumb, and their first divorce happened when I was 6 months old. They remarried when I was 5, and divorce was mentioned again when I was 8, 13, and finally, when I was 17, they divorced a second time. It does mess with your head quite a bit.
So Crissy found out that her husband knew about the cheating but still chose to go ahead with the trio because she was going to get the rough end anyway? Damn she is one piece of work. That door knob of a Husband OP was destined to be with her.
So correct me if im wrong but Emily started dating Eric's (her Ex Husband) boss who now blocks his every attempt at promotion? What does Emily still have a grudge against him for leaving her or something?
Probably, it's a power play & since they live in an at fault state he can rake her over the coals and ensure she gets little in the divorce so it's probably revenge. Honestly: he should just focus his efforts more into a new job and move out of the state, dropping anyone who's mutual friends with his ex. Dude messed up in his own way to and he has to own that but it doesn't mean he needs to exist in a future of pain. OP honestly should really do the same, I do not judge people who try to make things work because as I told a friend once "You're the only one who has to bear the burdens and you're the only one who gets to reap the rewards in your life. Balance what is true to yourself, what you feel is healthy for you, and what you honestly want to do from within after calm reflection not in the moment". Having said that though.. just some things really stuck out to me from the wife. One of the prominent is during the initial confrontation she said she would drop Emily from her life but made no assurance of dropping Mike. Now you could argue that it just was automatically implied but specific of language is a very important thing. To me it stuck out more that even in that moment she was still trying to protect that little bit of Mike in her mind, possibly as a chance to foster it for later options. Another is that she didn't rush home because she said what difference would it make, but then you'd likely be in agony away from home with two people who only want to screw, what enjoyment is that? Unless: Mikey boy still meant more than her husband in that moment, and she was making another display of priorities. I don't think she was as sincere as she said she was and I think that this behavior has an higher than normal for these types of situations to re-emerge.
This is exactly why if someone betrays you bad, you shouldn't even have a conversation... Imagine if he just straight up left. No dramas no hall passes no revenge affair. Just straight up moving on and find a better partner. Now he's back with a cheater and lowering himself..
I think people are missing what he said about the therapy. He said they BOTH chose an ENM therapist because that is something they both want to explore. - "ENM means ethical non-monogamy or ethically non-monogamous. "" ENM stands for ethical non-monogamy, which is a term for relationships where all partners agree to have romantic, intimate, or sexual relationships with more than one person. ENM relationships are also known as consensual non-monogamy."He has obviously decided that they will both have an open relationship because that will work for him too!so it is not about him just taking her back like a fool. They both want the same thing now to be able to see other people and stay married to each other.
The difference between staying and leaving after he knows is it you say you don't care about your marriage and if you leave your sorry I want to work it out.
So if Chuck had let his wife stay home like she intended to, then nine of rhis would have happened. Im not blaming him for her cheating, but insisting she goes alone on a couples trip with a recently divorced friend with a reputation for sleeping around, and you have a recipe for disaster. Nobody is responsible for another person's decision to cheat, thats their choice and their choice and their choice alone, but you have a responsibility to protect your relationship and pushing a spouse away that wants to be there to help is a good way to harm it.
Has what he considers as a wonderful woman in Sabrina then torpedoes the relationship because he doesn't want to get married ever again. Then tries to get back with the ex-wife and agrees to marriage counseling on demand from the ex-wife even though she's the one that cheated. WTF. This guy needs a psychologist big time.
What a cook. I say cook because the word I want to use would get me deleted. But yeah he’s ok with being emasculated having his wife sleep with other men. Thank God he didn’t have a son, what kind of young man would he have grown up to be with a father like that.
Classic spineless simp charming white knight doormat. He even ask for forgiveness after using the hall passes and he even went back together and do couples counseling when the only one at fault is her. This man is so pathetic
1) I broke my ankle three days before the trip. 2) I decided not to go because I was non-weightbearing. 3) Suddenly, I had been cleared for walking (aka weightbearing) for three weeks as I hobbled around the house, throwing items in front of his daughter.... Man, these writing exercises are painful. Was this written by an illiterate fifteen-year-old?
The title should have been "wife cheated with my best friend(s)...". I always hate the betrayals with the spouse and their sibling/parent and also with the best friend. Chrissy didn't give no sheet with sleeping with both of her husband's best friends. OP should have had Emily as the 3rd in the trio, I wonder how she would have felt about that. That's what I thought he would have suggested, it would have been the perfect revenge towards his wife and ex best friend. Chrissy was really not shameful or remorseful about all her affair. She would have eventually cheated more men if she kept going, a door was open for her and she clearly didn't want to close it or go back to her original sexual life.
I'm just gonna say it, OP was an idiot for getting back with Crissy. Yes i understand they're going to counseling and it's likely moreso about their daughter, but some things can't be fixed even with the right tools(counseling in this case)
They deserve each other. He's just as much scum as she is for lying about his divorce to sleep with Sabrina who has morals, he tricked her like a creep.
This is why revenge cheating/hall passes is stupid. OP planned to leave his wife regardless and also lied to Sabrina about the divorce while courting her. He gets back together with his ex anyway. They're both trash and deserve each other.
Well, hall passes definetely worked. He brought himself to her level, so it was easier to reconcile later.
Revenge cheating is actually totally fine as long as you are honest with the person you are hooking up with
For these type of simp open marriage are For
Yes absolute disgusting trash.
Why do you think they got back at the end?
Bro is actually stupid for going back to crissy
There are a lot of stories coming out like this. For some reason feelings is the reason why they stay together. So basically after they stop feeling angry they get back together which makes no sense. The wife's always think that they can win the guy back. And this is probably the reason why they cheated in the first place. Because in the end the guy will forgive them. Weak men.
I sort of get it. It's sort of starting over but with someone you already know. They also don't have those people in their lives anymore, which is probably a big help. Crissy probably has learned what not to do. Hopefully anyway. They still have feelings for each other, for sure.
Not saying it's right, just saying it is what it is. It's not for everyone.
Too many absolutely stupid people about these days taking their partner back after such a massive betrayal. Stuff that lol I’d be gone.
This must to have been written by a woman, because no real man would take a 304 like that back.
there are people who just better as friends, or whatever the fuck those 2 are but he seems to be living his best life so what gives
so... she effectively got away with it all?
holy shit man.
I mean op is pretty trash as well, they deserve one another
No, she didn't. She had to deal with him seeing another woman, she has to be subject to searches whenever he wants, and she will no longer be treated like a cherished wife.
The relationship was renegotiated into something more favorable for himself. It's not always about making the wrongdoer pay, but rather yourself getting paid. It's not like she's a monster.
Yes cause him hooking up with someone who they have consent from his cheater wife is the same @@agx8447
@@yourdagan Yeah like that's going to work. Get real, she's just going to be more sneaky about it. She got away with it and if you think otherwise you're more delusional than he is.
@@aluralovell6829 You have a very unnuanced, black-and-white view of punishment and consequences.
Crissy literally had no remorse and he still went back to her… this guy is stupid.
all that she went through was a few months of suffering and now shes married again and can now cheat freely lol
@lolmanv I wouldn't even say suffering. She was still having her fun and got rewarded for it. Chuck deserves any problems that follow.
Better to have Enemies rather than Friends 😂
I think the original saying is "Who need enemies when you have friends like these"
Your still right though
Noticed she wants to give him everything after the fact
The Eric guy got the real raw end of this while ordeal. Dude moved after his divorce to only get stuck by his ex's new husband who is his boss and is denying his request to transfer again. so stuck in hell
I feel like they both want him 🤣🤣
A simple trip to HR in that company explaining that his transfer had been denied as a way to rub his face in it and the ex's new hubby would have been toast.
@@sparkeyjames Absolutely...
It's karma for betraying OP twice, the first with sleeping with Chrissy and second condoning Chrissy and Mike sleeping together
Theres no way in hell i would get back with this woman after how I heard how she planned to never come clean about the dirt they did. And O.P. didnt do anything to mike after he violated. He might have been sent to the hospital 🏥 after the ankle healed up.
As a wife and mother, no I would not expect my husband to come back to me. Like it's one thing to forgive a drunken argument or lying about scratching the car or something. But you never forgive blatant infidelity, or driving drunk with the kids in the car or something intense like that. Ugh
@@WhyWouldYou821 your husband might, for your kid
@@henrywade-re1of he's a good man. He actually might try to make our marriage work like you said. But there's one thing I know about my husband: he will choose our kids over me every time it's necessary. If I make horrible decisions that affect our kids, he's going to immediately to what he thinks is best for them. It makes me love him more for this. There's one theory that spouses must put each other first over the day to day needs of their family because that bond, that marriage, is what will bring success to those kids. But he's in the thoughts of, "if my wife is good, she won't endanger my kids' health, safety, or mental health." And he's not one to forgive easily. I hope I never put him in that position in the first place though lol
@@WhyWouldYou821 not only is he a good man, you are a good woman as well, hopefully I'll find someone like you in future
OP shouldn’t remarry his ex-wife. If he does want to remarry her, he should draw up a prenup that’s draconian enough to hold up in court. Personally, the most I’d do is act like the divorce never happened but never get married again. That way, when she inevitably cheats again, you don’t have to go through another costly divorce.
What a moron. His wife gift wrapped him a no fault divorce and he goes back to his terrible ex wife.
They're not married anymore and she's not entitled to be treated like his wife. It's a new relationship where he has more control.
Also you have to exercise some sense of proportion; her crimes and character are not the most severe you've ever seen, according to the evidence.
@@yourdagan so her sleeping with his 2 best friends isn't that bad according to you?
This a fake story bro you can find it in a subreddit where only fake story is made
@@Tempest27 and? What does it matter whether it's fake or not. You're here watching and commenting on the story.
Out of all the stories I’ve read, why is this the one where I’m not pissed that the op eventually took the cheating ex back? I’m usually not merciful to doormats and cheaters, so I’m very confused with myself. 😵💫
us moment brooooooo
Same. I'm pretty sure it's because of both how they got back together and also the fact that he got revenge by cheating as well and leading her on. It's like trolling a cat using a mouse on a stick. You lead them on and mess with them,giving them false hope and essentially toying with them before finally giving them the mouse. In this situation,he cheated right back,gave her as much time as she wanted, and gave her false hope during the threesome before finally ending things and getting with Sabrina.
Cause they’re both trash and deserve each other lmao
I felt the same way and it's because he got his revenge and she agreed to be compliant. He wasn't abused per se, as in so many other cases---she's not as bad as the rest.
As long as his desires are being met, with less obligations, it's not a bad deal really. They both learned their lessons too. And he already said he doesn't want to start over, which is a hard sell to most women under middle age.
Yeah i think once he realized he's just as messed up as his his wife, he figured he no longer had the right to judge her so might as well take her back lol
These 2 fools deserve each other. Im glad they got back together lol keeps others from having to end up with either of them.
What the hell are these friends and wife? This story is just a big mess is have to be fake op is a simp for real
it was put on a subreddit called r/stories. Its a purely fictional piece.
Captain doormat strikes again.
Almost had a spine, and fumbled it
Wow, OP and Ex deserves each other. Poor Sabrina. She got the wrong end of all of this- Cora too. Can you imagine the emotional back and forth the poor girl went through?
I know you commented three months ago, but my parents actually did remarry/divorce twice. They were young and dumb, and their first divorce happened when I was 6 months old. They remarried when I was 5, and divorce was mentioned again when I was 8, 13, and finally, when I was 17, they divorced a second time. It does mess with your head quite a bit.
That woman had absolutely no remorse it’s astonishing
ahhhh i clicked, i gotta hear this one. help me. i have a problem
Here!! Take this anti - cringe pill
Its like seeing a train wreck. You know its gonna happen and you should run away, but you cant and just stand there and watch it happen. lol
Me too bro 😂😂
no wonder she felt safe to cheat on him, he has no self respect, so why should she have been a hypocrite and respect him?
Bro everyone in this story was so horrible and annoying 😂
She Never loved you. She wanted to Cheat on you. She was ok with cheating. Opening things the way you did makes you as bad as her.
I bet he catches her cheating with the same guy again
Good fake Reddit
Huh
You can tell it's fake because the perspective changes.
Well, what is the problem?
yep
Wow - she had the nerve to say, she went through with it because the outcome was the same? lol she is a snake
I guess all the grown folks are oppurtunists to get theirs.
So Crissy found out that her husband knew about the cheating but still chose to go ahead with the trio because she was going to get the rough end anyway? Damn she is one piece of work. That door knob of a Husband OP was destined to be with her.
So correct me if im wrong but Emily started dating Eric's (her Ex Husband) boss who now blocks his every attempt at promotion?
What does Emily still have a grudge against him for leaving her or something?
Probably, it's a power play & since they live in an at fault state he can rake her over the coals and ensure she gets little in the divorce so it's probably revenge. Honestly: he should just focus his efforts more into a new job and move out of the state, dropping anyone who's mutual friends with his ex. Dude messed up in his own way to and he has to own that but it doesn't mean he needs to exist in a future of pain.
OP honestly should really do the same, I do not judge people who try to make things work because as I told a friend once "You're the only one who has to bear the burdens and you're the only one who gets to reap the rewards in your life. Balance what is true to yourself, what you feel is healthy for you, and what you honestly want to do from within after calm reflection not in the moment". Having said that though.. just some things really stuck out to me from the wife. One of the prominent is during the initial confrontation she said she would drop Emily from her life but made no assurance of dropping Mike. Now you could argue that it just was automatically implied but specific of language is a very important thing. To me it stuck out more that even in that moment she was still trying to protect that little bit of Mike in her mind, possibly as a chance to foster it for later options. Another is that she didn't rush home because she said what difference would it make, but then you'd likely be in agony away from home with two people who only want to screw, what enjoyment is that? Unless: Mikey boy still meant more than her husband in that moment, and she was making another display of priorities.
I don't think she was as sincere as she said she was and I think that this behavior has an higher than normal for these types of situations to re-emerge.
It’s a fake story, domar think too much about it
@@MrArielK who tf is dorma
Bro is really a Loser for going back to His Wife
This is exactly why if someone betrays you bad, you shouldn't even have a conversation... Imagine if he just straight up left. No dramas no hall passes no revenge affair. Just straight up moving on and find a better partner. Now he's back with a cheater and lowering himself..
If you revenge cheat, you wanted to cheat in the first place
Or you just want to hurt them back
@@GAPIntoTheGamethat makes it worst
@@MrArielKno it doesn't don't like it don't do the action in the first place
@@ShadowGladiatorX an eye for an eye and everybody goes blind
@@MrArielKbeing blind seems pretty cool dude. Seen Avatar TLA? Daredevil?🤷♀️
All those 'friends' need to be taken for a walk. This is sooo bad.
Ahh, dirt begets dirt. Classy.
Boi you blunt as a spoon for getting back with her
Basically he didn't have no option so he went back to her .
OP ruined everything in the end. For eff sake.
Dude deserves everything that comes after that ending lmfao😂😂
Fake ass story, the dude on Reddit even said it was fake
These people are so gross and honestly deserve each other. No need to subject other people to their selfishness
the ending is actually crazy bc why would he go back to her???
lmao i would love to be a fly in their house
This is actually a fiction story on Reddit
I think people are missing what he said about the therapy. He said they BOTH chose an ENM therapist because that is something they both want to explore. - "ENM means ethical non-monogamy or ethically non-monogamous. "" ENM stands for ethical non-monogamy, which is a term for relationships where all partners agree to have romantic, intimate, or sexual relationships with more than one person. ENM relationships are also known as consensual non-monogamy."He has obviously decided that they will both have an open relationship because that will work for him too!so it is not about him just taking her back like a fool. They both want the same thing now to be able to see other people and stay married to each other.
1:41 a TRIO
In sickness and in health is always a lie.
The difference between staying and leaving after he knows is it you say you don't care about your marriage and if you leave your sorry I want to work it out.
So if Chuck had let his wife stay home like she intended to, then nine of rhis would have happened. Im not blaming him for her cheating, but insisting she goes alone on a couples trip with a recently divorced friend with a reputation for sleeping around, and you have a recipe for disaster.
Nobody is responsible for another person's decision to cheat, thats their choice and their choice and their choice alone, but you have a responsibility to protect your relationship and pushing a spouse away that wants to be there to help is a good way to harm it.
Are OP actions post reveal justifiable? Genuine question for viewers
Hell to the nah. Divorce, immediately. Don't even talk, just take the evidence straight to a lawyer and be done with her.
It's justified but not a good choice, get out and don't complicate the divorce proceedings.
People are disgusting with no sense of loyalty or character. This cant be real wtf
You took her back…….
Do what you want ig😭
This whole group is weak and/or gross. I just feel bad for the daughter...
Has what he considers as a wonderful woman in Sabrina then torpedoes the relationship because he doesn't want to get married ever again. Then tries to get back with the ex-wife and agrees to marriage counseling on demand from the ex-wife even though she's the one that cheated. WTF. This guy needs a psychologist big time.
What a cook. I say cook because the word I want to use would get me deleted. But yeah he’s ok with being emasculated having his wife sleep with other men. Thank God he didn’t have a son, what kind of young man would he have grown up to be with a father like that.
Dooormaaaaaatttttt
You're right on that one. OP is a weak simp.
Cuck
Classic spineless simp charming white knight doormat. He even ask for forgiveness after using the hall passes and he even went back together and do couples counseling when the only one at fault is her. This man is so pathetic
one of the most f*ck up stories.... i regret listening to this nonsense story
Don’t worry it’s not real it’s part of the dark universe😭
1) I broke my ankle three days before the trip.
2) I decided not to go because I was non-weightbearing.
3) Suddenly, I had been cleared for walking (aka weightbearing) for three weeks as I hobbled around the house, throwing items in front of his daughter....
Man, these writing exercises are painful. Was this written by an illiterate fifteen-year-old?
Open relationships are just cheating with extra steps.
So all are bloody cheaters, and at end no one pays like cheating compensate cheating whats wrong with us people 😂😂😂
No op didn't cheat unlike his 304 wife he had permission and consent to do what he did he just twisted the knife
???? What is wrong with those people?
The title should have been "wife cheated with my best friend(s)...". I always hate the betrayals with the spouse and their sibling/parent and also with the best friend. Chrissy didn't give no sheet with sleeping with both of her husband's best friends. OP should have had Emily as the 3rd in the trio, I wonder how she would have felt about that. That's what I thought he would have suggested, it would have been the perfect revenge towards his wife and ex best friend. Chrissy was really not shameful or remorseful about all her affair. She would have eventually cheated more men if she kept going, a door was open for her and she clearly didn't want to close it or go back to her original sexual life.
Hell no, this sounds like it was made up by some girl who cheated on her husband and wanted a happy ending😊
Remember women like Emily and Chrissy are the rule not the exception.
IT looks like bro has not learn anything at all I see 😔😔😔
Poor Eric
Either this is fake or op chose type in what he experienced in a novel format.
Completely fake, and it was never a secret. This post was in r/stories and was tagged as fictional from the start.
The daily does of drama is here
I just realized people are sharing opinions after 17 minutes even though it’s 19 minutes long 😐
1.75 speed :D
@@goshoko8835lol
I mean, 5min is and the story it’s already overthetop
You can't get divorced if you don't get married.
thats crazy
Lol OP and Chrissy are both terrible so it makes sense they ended up back together
OP is a bum no way you go crawling back to her after all of that. Where is his self respect
Another novella I see.
I'm just gonna say it, OP was an idiot for getting back with Crissy.
Yes i understand they're going to counseling and it's likely moreso about their daughter, but some things can't be fixed even with the right tools(counseling in this case)
at the end he became a simp
They deserve each other. He's just as much scum as she is for lying about his divorce to sleep with Sabrina who has morals, he tricked her like a creep.
What in the Eyes Wide Shut did I just watch
Honestly both people on this situation are pretty crappy
I expected better from op he choose the wrong path 🤦🏽♂️ but if it’s what fouls his boat ok
… what WAS this? 🤨
This guy is so stupid. I was so disappointed in him in the end. The only logical person was Cora.
This story was to confusing but like why get back with your ex tho?
Gets chested on and at the end he taes her back haha wimp 😂
The only real solution is to sleep with Mike next
Wait so everyone in the friend group was pass each other around and he didn’t know or was apart of it?? And I listening wrong?
Such a weird story.
This dude is cooked
This story is so fake that I don't have much else to say, just as if the events couldn't be more cliché but over detailed and descriptive
Every turn in this story was a fucking Left and straight off a cliff. What the actual fuck.
Quadruple murder
Goddamn it dude…
D-day happened on December 7th or d-day
hey 250$ is 250$ lol
Wtf did I just read
Wtf I just listened?
Doormatt
end up as a doormet lol
Doormat
does anyone know the original poster's reddit username?
WASTE OF TIME STORY
This one was fucking weird
not a fan of all these names man, gets confusing as fk, at first i thought emily was the wife.
also sounds fake af
What the duck
Fake rage bait.... Do better Telltales.
e
this story is garbage, and stupid.