I haven't messed around with the Sag Parameter much. But, I think you're right that no Sag for Chording sounds good, as does higher Sag for Leads. It might be a good time to revisit Bias, and BiasX, and what they're useful for. Thanks
I hear sag as the glassiness vs chunkiness of the attack. For super clean patches I use 0 sag because I want glassiness, for dirt and crunch 4 or 5 sag, and for high gain leads 8+. I find that sag is one of the most important settings on modellers. A big part of the reason many modeller patches sound awful is a lack of high cut and sag.
Hot take: Boss AIRD preamps have the best sag. At least in regard to the playing experience. But this might be connected to them having the lowest latency of any current modelers so your pick attack is most closely connected to that blooming sound from the sagging amplifier. The best amps to hear/feel this are their X modded and Supreme models imo. Basically the modded Marshall and the plexi. No surprise there.
I think this is what people are talking about when they say some amps allow for more sloppy playing. I like both, a nice saggy Bassman and nice tight SLO or Mark V.
Info from a decaying mind 14/15 years ago from fractal forum. If you wanna use the amp block as a pre amp only, turn the sag down to zero. So my deduction is that sag is power amp effect but not like mix in reverb, more like preamp gain just the pre changes the sound more than power does.
I think that's a smart play - I guess you're kind of balancing the Amp towards being more "hot" in the power amp section with that kind of approach and then tweaking the rest of the chain - makes sense?
@@johnnathancordy yeah, that’s my thinking. Btw, someone I talked to was convinced that the Master volume should be set at 9 to 9.5 even for non-master-knob amp emulations. He says that Line 6 overcooks that setting on purpose. I have no idea if he’s right
Sag feels good... Until it doesn't. I sold my 5e3 because of those times I wanted a quick punchy tone. Damn I miss that amp, but adding some squish with a pedal is definitely easier than taking it away.
Maven Peal amps were designed with a variable sag control. Dave's amps are amazing, along with the variable wattage control, and the ability to rebias for various power tubes. Nice and quiet too, with a torroidal transformer. Sag is something you can hear, particularly depending on the circuit, but it's definitely more of a feel and response thing.
To "me" the Helix isn't anything like real tube amp sag. "me" The Helix has a fixed effect sound where as an amp will have have variation as the voltage drops and then creeps back up. You might try using a variac to change the sound of your old tube amp, makes the amp feel much more spongy with a smoother attack aka brown sound. Some tube amps have variac built in...
What about the bias and the biasx settings. I imagine its how hot/cold the "tubes" are running. Interesting to see the difference in settings for helix.
I'll give it a go in a similar way at some point, like the Sag thing, it actually changes the volume too, so it's kinda hard to get a good read on whether it is improving things or just getting louder, so I'll try to get the volume close in the comparison!
Bias is an interesting one because the way it effects gain isn't linear. It's not like 0 bias is one sound, and 10 is another sound. And everything in between is a straight line. I find it tends to "peak" at around 6-7.
Didn't Eddie VH make his amps sag with a Variac, lowering the voltage to the amp? To me it sounds like you're lowering the headroom so the amp compresses earlier, like when you change an amp from 15 watts to 7 watts, on amps with that option like my AC15HW. (I know it's not really the same thing, I just mean how it feels) I like the sound when other people use it, but I've always preferred a more dynamic attack with some headroom. Some guys can really dial it in great though, and sounds great for their playing style, like the players you named.
Hi John im mahdi finally this august im playin guitar at european festival guitar here in italy im so happy i playin at that festival one of my favourite songs of all time the 1975 somebody else i prepared myself with my pedalboard zoom g1 four ❤❤😊😊🎸🎸🎸🎸⭐😊I do the best ❤❤😊😊
SAG in the end compresses the output signal, because the power supply cannot cope with the power requirements. Not sure, if this is something that I would consider s positive effect on the sound ....
I used to use a compressor in the fx loop of my 5150 combo to get the sag feel at lower volume, it really helped with the speaker drive too(at least it felt that way)
Hi John, I came across this ruclips.net/video/9aHVOUe1yTQ/видео.html&si=P0BxQpJH1x9wiyH6 the Barefaced Activier which is a new kind of amp, speaker and cab combo for modellers and I immediately thought of you. I would think you could really do a good job reviewing this. Barefaced Audio are in Brighton. I think this might be answer to FRFR, Pa speakers etc etc. All are not designed for modellers where this seems to be. Love it if you did a review, cheers Robert 😊😊
I’m not a doctor but I think it’s when your balls droop.
Hahahaha this guy said balls!
@@jorgemartinez42069 teehee
My wife and are in our 60’s. I have droop and she has sag. That should explain it, and give you a lot to look forward to.
I haven't messed around with the Sag Parameter much. But, I think you're right that no Sag for Chording sounds good, as does higher Sag for Leads.
It might be a good time to revisit Bias, and BiasX, and what they're useful for. Thanks
I'll have a look!!!
I always have a hard time hearing the difference in biasX, but bias can make a huge change in the sound. It can basically sound like a different amp.
I hear sag as the glassiness vs chunkiness of the attack. For super clean patches I use 0 sag because I want glassiness, for dirt and crunch 4 or 5 sag, and for high gain leads 8+. I find that sag is one of the most important settings on modellers. A big part of the reason many modeller patches sound awful is a lack of high cut and sag.
🔥🔥🔥
Very helpful comparison and summary of sag, thank you.
P. S. it's brave guitarist who shouts at the other people in the house asking them to be quiet!
I love these kinds of videos, very informative.I find it easier to hear the differences when I'm removed from actually playing.
Hot take: Boss AIRD preamps have the best sag.
At least in regard to the playing experience.
But this might be connected to them having the lowest latency of any current modelers so your pick attack is most closely connected to that blooming sound from the sagging amplifier.
The best amps to hear/feel this are their X modded and Supreme models imo. Basically the modded Marshall and the plexi. No surprise there.
The sag parameter is interactive: it's effect on tone depends on signal levels (mainly master volume).
I think this is what people are talking about when they say some amps allow for more sloppy playing. I like both, a nice saggy Bassman and nice tight SLO or Mark V.
the full sag setting sounds quieter but somehow sounds like a louder amp further away. My little Marshall does this, very aggressive sound
Info from a decaying mind 14/15 years ago from fractal forum. If you wanna use the amp block as a pre amp only, turn the sag down to zero. So my deduction is that sag is power amp effect but not like mix in reverb, more like preamp gain just the pre changes the sound more than power does.
I just set it on 9.5 and adjust everything else to fit 😄
I think that's a smart play - I guess you're kind of balancing the Amp towards being more "hot" in the power amp section with that kind of approach and then tweaking the rest of the chain - makes sense?
@@johnnathancordy yeah, that’s my thinking. Btw, someone I talked to was convinced that the Master volume should be set at 9 to 9.5 even for non-master-knob amp emulations. He says that Line 6 overcooks that setting on purpose. I have no idea if he’s right
@@HerfinnurI heard that too. A lot of amps I didn't likr came to life at master 9.
“Quiet! Daddy’s talking about Sag to pay for your nappies” hahah love it
Your intro just made me smile…
Sag feels good... Until it doesn't. I sold my 5e3 because of those times I wanted a quick punchy tone. Damn I miss that amp, but adding some squish with a pedal is definitely easier than taking it away.
I have a couple tube amps that actually have a Sag control on them, but I honestly can’t hear or feel much of a difference no matter where I set it.
Max sag sounds like it feels great to play.
Maven Peal amps were designed with a variable sag control. Dave's amps are amazing, along with the variable wattage control, and the ability to rebias for various power tubes. Nice and quiet too, with a torroidal transformer.
Sag is something you can hear, particularly depending on the circuit, but it's definitely more of a feel and response thing.
Or the Curt Emery amps, where you can change all the tubes, including rectifier (where you really notice the change in sag).
Digitally, it is sounding more like some kind of compression, at least here.
Sag 10 seems to equal the "Brown Sound" ala Angus
Sag had something to do with tube rectifiers, Solid State Rects. do not Sag as easily.
Solid state stuff can also sag - but not as much!
To "me" the Helix isn't anything like real tube amp sag. "me" The Helix has a fixed effect sound where as an amp will have have variation as the voltage drops and then creeps back up. You might try using a variac to change the sound of your old tube amp, makes the amp feel much more spongy with a smoother attack aka brown sound. Some tube amps have variac built in...
What about the bias and the biasx settings. I imagine its how hot/cold the "tubes" are running. Interesting to see the difference in settings for helix.
I'll give it a go in a similar way at some point, like the Sag thing, it actually changes the volume too, so it's kinda hard to get a good read on whether it is improving things or just getting louder, so I'll try to get the volume close in the comparison!
Bias is an interesting one because the way it effects gain isn't linear. It's not like 0 bias is one sound, and 10 is another sound. And everything in between is a straight line. I find it tends to "peak" at around 6-7.
Great informative video.👌
Didn't Eddie VH make his amps sag with a Variac, lowering the voltage to the amp? To me it sounds like you're lowering the headroom so the amp compresses earlier, like when you change an amp from 15 watts to 7 watts, on amps with that option like my AC15HW. (I know it's not really the same thing, I just mean how it feels) I like the sound when other people use it, but I've always preferred a more dynamic attack with some headroom. Some guys can really dial it in great though, and sounds great for their playing style, like the players you named.
Definitely seems that higher sag has increased harmonic transients
Hi John im mahdi finally this august im playin guitar at european festival guitar here in italy im so happy i playin at that festival one of my favourite songs of all time the 1975 somebody else i prepared myself with my pedalboard zoom g1 four ❤❤😊😊🎸🎸🎸🎸⭐😊I do the best ❤❤😊😊
SAG in the end compresses the output signal, because the power supply cannot cope with the power requirements. Not sure, if this is something that I would consider s positive effect on the sound ....
It's definitely a HUGE part of what makes the old NVM amps different to more modern amps though
thanks for this. now please do Bias and Bias X.
Wonder if a compressor would be useful for modelers that don't have a sag parameter... maybe big ratio, fast attack and release...
I used to use a compressor in the fx loop of my 5150 combo to get the sag feel at lower volume, it really helped with the speaker drive too(at least it felt that way)
It’s barely perceptible other than a slight volume change. I just leave it on 5 and call it a day!
Are those presets in the Gumroad folder? I just can seem to find them? Anyone? Thnx!!
Hi John, I came across this ruclips.net/video/9aHVOUe1yTQ/видео.html&si=P0BxQpJH1x9wiyH6 the Barefaced Activier which is a new kind of amp, speaker and cab combo for modellers and I immediately thought of you. I would think you could really do a good job reviewing this. Barefaced Audio are in Brighton. I think this might be answer to FRFR, Pa speakers etc etc. All are not designed for modellers where this seems to be. Love it if you did a review, cheers Robert 😊😊
So can you force the amp to sag by using a Variac for example?
Pull your pants up if you have too much sag.