Does Walter Trout Have a Point About NEVER Using Pedals?
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2025
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So - Walter Trout doesn't use pedals. Basically never has...In fact - since the 90s, he has apparently relied on a Mesa Boogie Mark 4 with the Gain all the way up...Could that work for you?
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My last three gigs have been Epiphone Les Paul “Greeny” straight into a Mesa Boogie Mark V 25. Music is mostly classic country, some light rock. No metal, no blues. My style is jazz influenced country with some chicken pickin thrown in for fun. I’ve had several comments ranging from “How do you get that tone without pedals?” to “Wow! You sound great!” I’m not opposed to pedals or modelers. I own both. But at age 71, after playing guitar for 64 years, I’m rediscovering why I fell in love with the guitar in the first place. As far as using the volume for gain control, I’m convinced that’s what it’s there for.
I totally get it. I gigged for many years (rock, blues , pop ) with just a Boogie mk3 (and later a mk4 combo) footswitches for the 3 channels and reverb. No pedals, one of the best rigs I ever used. (Btw pristine cleans)
These days a Kemper and I love delay on guitar...
Trout has a really unique sound that I've always enjoyed. Great player.
It’s good to hear what works for other players but at the end of the day the only thing that matters is what works for you.
Great video - thank you, John!
He does and doesn't have a point. If your music style is limited to blues only than he has a point. If you are more into ambient and modulation kinda stuff he doesn't. And if he says no pedals does he also mean 19 inch FX Units? Like the 2290 delay. He probably means if you want to sound like me you don't need fx pedals. If you want to sound like David Gilmour or The Edge you certainly do.
The point isn't blues, every genre has a particular sound and you use the right tools for the result.
@@bluwngI think the OC was referring to trout’s question, “if you have a really good amp why would you put a $100 pedal in front of it.”
I have a really good amp with a $200 pedal in front of it 😮
I like a cheese pizza, but I also like toppings. Pedals are like pizza toppings; not necessary to make a pizza but can be a game changer with the right combination of flavors
@user-ri3gh6yb5k style impacts nuance not sound
@@honkytonkinson9787 this is exactly what I said I’m just more direct in manner.
Indeed depends what and how you're playing. These days I tend to play as a solo or duo act and want a smany FX as possible to fill in the spaces, particularly when I'm not singing. BUT when I started (in the mid '70's) I had no pedal, just an SG copy and a Marshall Combo, to get a volume boost for a solo I switched pickups (which were set at different levels) ....there weren't anyway as many pedals back then but didn't bother for me for a while until I finally got a Coloursound FuzzWah.
I used a Mk IV in a blues band in the early ‘90’s. I used Rhythm 2 channel and a Les Paul. I set the Boogie for a nice blues lead tone with the bridge pickup turned up to 10. I dialed the neck pickup volume back to 6. I could play an entire gig by flicking the pickup selector switch up or down. No drive pedals or channel switching.
John Nathan Cordy, This made me so happy! I liked and subscribed!
I’ve used this kind of approach before, but specifically on traditional blues gigs and jazz gigs. All the other stuff has benefitted greatly from a pedal board., even if for the majority of the night on some gigs, I’m only turning on and off one overdrive pedal and kicking on some reverb or trem depending on the situation other nights, I use the pedal board to its full potential, gain staging, fuzz, modulation, delay, etc. It all depends on the gig On those traditional blues gigs where I have gone directly into the amp and used my volume control on my guitar for gain staging I won’t lie, I have loved it and would love to do more of it someday
You both have great points. I used a Mark IV for a really long time and the only pedal I ever used was a volume. In fact the Mark IV hated pedals. I switched between the lead channel and the clean channel. As I recall, the clean channel was green and the lead channel was red and there was a middle channel that was the crunch or overdriven rhythm channel which I never used was orange. Mine got super clean on the green channel but you had to run it with 6l6 power tubes and make sure that the tubes were rated at about a 9 or 10 on Mesa's tube rating scale and always run it in 100W (actually I think it was 80W) mode. Guys like Walter Trout just play blues so they don't need anything else except one sound. That's how they get their style. If you listen to the great blues players they all have only one sound. Albert Collins, Albert King, Johnny Winter, BB King, Freddie, even Eric Clapton in the early days of Cream. Even though Eric and Johnny occasionally used a wah pedal it was still easy to recognize who they were. When you're doing what you do, one sound won't do. You need multiple sounds to play all the different genres that are required for a top 40, cover or wedding band. That's when pedals or a modeler is a must but when you do this you really have to make sure that your amp takes pedals or modelers really well.
That approach works great for certain styles of music, and I did it myself for years, but it is a limited palette. I do typically prefer amp gain to drive pedals, but not always. That said, I’m glad I spent my early years getting good at playing in a band versus getting lost in pedals and gear.
Now 73 and the best tones I have heard in my live are a Les Paul straight in a Marshall stack in the 60ths ❤
I played an Esquire straight into a cranked Carr Rambler for years - it made me a better player because I had nothing to hide behind and nothing to distract me from focusing on the music. If I wanted a sound, I had to get it from my hands. For songwriting, I had a limited range of sonic possibilities compared to a board full of pedals, so the limitations afforded me a different perspective for composition than before.
However, that view became extremely limiting after a while. I swung hard the opposite way, getting deep into synthesis and modeling.
Now, I try to maintain a balance between the two mindsets - getting it from a simple rig + your hands and embracing the limitless sound design afforded to us these days.
In the end, we have to remember that guitar is an instrument within MUSIC. A band, a song, an album. The sounds have to hold the SONG up above all else. If your song calls for plugging right into a tweed and ripping, great. If the music begs for an ambient pad or a crazy wall of fuzz, great. I think being too dogmatic about either approach is where we get into trouble. Just play music, stop overthinking it
Yes, I don't use OD nor Distortion pedals. Just my Mesa MkV 25. I use both channels and adjust using my volume knob. The MkIIC+ mode cleans up surprisingly well.
You’re 100% right about the Mesa Boogies. I have a Mark V 25, which doesn’t clean up very well. You also have a good point about being flexible on your setup based on the music genres you’re playing. For straight ahead Blues, and a lot of Rock, going straight into a great tune amp yields a really pure tone. Waddy Wachtel is also an adherent of not using pedals. He usually plays a 1959 LP Burst, which sounds incredible. I have played a bunch of gigs with a Les Paul or Tele straight into a Fender Deluxe Reverb and it sounds terrific.
I managed quite happily, using this minimalist approach in a function band with an AxFx2. Old type Marshall with master cranked and just enough gain dialled to achieve a convincing searing lead tone flat out.
I was able to cover from clean funk to lead with just the vol knob and pickup selection. One patch covered the whole gig.
Now returned to my Boogie Mk4 and can do similar. Most success for me is the cranked middle channel with plenty of treble. Cleans up better than the lead channel especially with P90's or single coils.
Love this approach as I'm extracting tones from the guitar rather than always jumping on a pedal.
Of course no method is wrong, just different.
Yeah if you're a blues player... sure. I use effects like modulations and reverb to create space and ambience, and even things like chorus to fatten up tone. So I don't think that makes sense if you want to be versatile and unique and try different styles. You can always minimalize of course, focus on techniques at times, but... doesn't work for everyone.
I saw SRV before he used pedals. He only plugged in a wah for tunes that required it. Otherwise, he went straight into his amp array. Sounded extraordinary.
I agree John, this doesn't work for an average player in a covers/function band context. I'd also add that using a high gain pre-amp like a Mesa is just like having a gain pedal built in to the amp. I know Walter plays loud as I've seen him a few times, but I doubt even he is pushing a Boogie Mark power stage very much. I find that the other problem riding the volume for your tones is that while it might work if you are the only guitar, as soon as there's two guitar players, you're stuffed without some way of boosting the clean volume for single note parts.
Totally agree with you. It's utterly gig dependent. I love using a minimal set up for function type gigs but you so often need to be loud and really clean as well as dirty and not totally ear splitting. Playing more jazzy/bluesy then more use of volume pot to control gain totally stands to reason
I saw Albert Lee with his Music Man in Fender Pro with an external cabinet. Super nice sound and used just a volume knob and playing technique to switch between rhythm and solo. Not perhaps the spectrum you think of, but it sounded excellent and exciting.
That sounded great John...clean. GREAT ! That's how I play....the only pedals I use are plugins so unless I boot up Logic Pro, I play 100% au' natural.
I play the blues and blues-rock with vocal
Mine main effect is the volime knob definetely
In my case I prefer to have nothing under my feet and focus on vocal and playing then manage pedalboard in the same time
For what it's worth, I think it is best to play without pedals as default, and only add effects as effects, for a reason, when you need a different sound to express what you are trying to express. (then again, sometimes a weird effect will give you something to express. No rules!)
You have 3 channels for the Mark IV... And 8 for the Triaxis !!!
I started with Mesa by... cloning their amps while scavenging from out of use ones. My 1st was a Studio 22+, made with Marshall 1974x trannies, I later added the Mark III's distortion while keeping the Stu22's overdrive. Also cloned the Mark III then the Mark III Simulclass...
I could get a Triaxis and a Mesa Fifty/Fifty for cheap, but finally replaced the 50/50 by a Marshall EL84-20/20, and it didn't took a lot of mods to recover the sound I had from my "Stu22+"...
When it comes to pedals, frankly, even if I have some around at the recording studio, I never used any overdrive, had a Boss HM-2 when I built the Stu-22 but as soon the Mark III's distortion was added, it became useless so... Except fuzzes to make it really dirty, I don't use other saturations than the Mesa ones...
I'm at present building an adapted volume pedal with two inputs from two separate preamps ( both switchable for clean and dirty) but set up so that with heel down only preamp one can be heard from the single output. With toe down only preamp two will be heard at the outout, but at all points in between a proportion of each input preamp will be heard, like a continuous blend or cross-fade. Of course this is like having an amp with four channels ( two from each preamp, but only any one setting at a time) and gradual cross blending between the two preamps can then be sent to my stereo power amp. It's a simple analogue way of doing what some digital gear can achieve, and I can already also operate another pedal to blend in stereo effects return to the same ,or another amp; here again doing what many expression pedals do but simpler (and cheaper) and analogue, not that that's an obsession or anything, but it's just easier for me to get any dry sound I want, but also breathe a tiny amount, or a lavish helping of any effects I want, without having to reset everything for different room sounds or different PA's, it just makes getting a good sound more easy on the fly. I haven't yet got the " tone blender" back from my pal who's putting it together while we work on different rig set ups. I don't have any gigs looming where I'm playing electric at the moment, but that's not the point. The system I'm putting together is for my own fun of playing at all, and isn't a lot of money so it's not a waste. Experimenting along these lines more than twenty years ago yielded some good results in a simplified series mono set up, so this new parallel and stereo system will hopefully sound good for not much outlay.
I say this with respect - It’s all good for Walter to say people don’t need pedals, well for the music he plays then ok, but let’s see him play U2 songs without a delay pedal! Besides, Jimi Hendrix and SRV both used pedals, so each to their own I reckon
Bill Bailey (UK Comedian) had a joke about 20 years ago about what the Edge would sound like without a delay pedal lol
@@johnnathancordy ha, yeah I remember that one. That’s probably why U2 were the first to come to mind as an example
Get a sound guy you can trust. Some of my favorite gigs are when I can press one button clean/dirt. You can spend more time actually performing and less pressing buttons.
There are so many great tones that come from players that play straight into an amp, and so many great tones from players that love their pedal boards. Depends on what you're doing, what you want it to sound like, the range of genres, etc.
We're given so much creative freedom nowadays and we're all artists so just go at it and see what works for you.
I was totally against using pedals until I had to start playing guitar for a living 😅
With that said, I have used a Mark V (on lead channel) with just a delay for many gigs.
Check out Eddie Shaver on the “unshaven” album - 50’s Strat into a 80’s mesa boogie Colosseum
He proves you can do everything with the volume knob!
Depends on your amp, quite a lot..... amps with distortion are like a clean amp with overdrive, distortion and eq... it's all just circuitry at the end of the day, whether it's in a box or in the chassis
There's certainly something to say about saving and finally getting that $10,000 or $20,000 guitar amp and hooking a $100 or $200 or $300 pedal through it. Personally there's only 1 pedal I really like and that the Walrus Iron Horse V3 Distortion pedal. It really doesn't get better than that. Though some of the new pedals that Jack White has worked on have certainly been interesting.
If you're just talking more or less overdrive/ distortion, that works. WT's tone and attitude make for a great show. He plays loud. In all the gigs I play these days, the amp is mic-ed into a house system and there is no way a sound guy is letting me turn up (unless with an iso cab). I have a 5E3 with the Ken Fisher master vol that gets it done but when you need other effects, then what? My big old pedal board has been collecting dust for 1.5 years. I use an HX Stop LX now and can customize the signal chain with every gig. BTW, John, thanks for the presets!
One night I played a top 40 gig with a Les Paul straight into a Marshall JCM 800. I was pleasantly surprised that I was able to cover clean, crunch, and solo tones by adjusting my volume knob.
Speaking as someone who only EVER uses clean sounds, I feel that the only pedals I ever need are a reverb pedal (such as a Strymon Cloudburst) and a delay pedal (such as the Strymon Timeline). I don't like amps to have inbuilt effects, so I prefer the Supro Delta King 12 - a simple, what you see is what you get amp, or a 2nd hand old Peavey solid state amp.
My ethos is the KISS concept - Keep It Simple, Sunshine (not the rock band, LOL).
I sometimes wonder if the question is weather too much emphasis is placed on pleasing the player rather than pleasing the people being played for. Maybe?
Because, I want a phaser and a Uni Vibe, as well as delay, that the amps that sounds great alone, just don’t have those options.
Love that Mesa Boogie, and yeah, if it’s a straight electric blues show, I can use any amp really. As long as it’s loud enough, and has some mid presence.
I don’t need much at all to play guitar and sound good. I do want, and also enjoy, pedals. So his point is beside the point.
No matter what amp or pedals, volume pot (with treble bleed) is the one i use all the time playing live.
There are some excellent sensative dynamic high V tube preamp pedals in the $300 range by Tubesteader in Canada, and whose to say a tube gain pedal sounds better in all cases than something like a Ge fuzz of treble booster or even a Mosfet distortion? One advantage of a pedal is you can have an always on buffer and use a shorter cable for better highs. Some sigital FX pedals also have dry analog pass thru.
An expensive amp is an aggregation of parts, some of which are cheaper than a $100 pedal.
Why use a pick made of X when it could be diamond-encrusted, because surely price determines sound?
I just picked up a Revv G50. I might be able to get by with just the amp and a delay in the effects loop. The footswitch has a switch for each of the three channels and there are two master volumes and you could make one a solo boost. But then your back to a channel switching amp and 4CM. Hmm… interesting discussion!
No point to that comment. It’s purist when there’s no need to be. Then go scream it at everyone since the sixties who’s used at least one pedal or another in their chain. If you’re going to be a purist about tone, remove the mics, mixers, outboard gear, and PA system, then crank up your amp and play for the 30 people in the front that can hear you. Otherwise people need to stop making this kind of nonsensical purist comment.
I went down the "direct in" for a few years. But then I discovered harmonic tremolo. And since a brownface fender, nor any other amp with it was available to me. I started back down the path of pedals.
I know I can get a good tone without pedals. But like spices when cooking, a little here and there adds to the flavor.
Too much and you can trash the whole lot.
Saw Walter live-he was great. I wonder what his thoughts would be about modelers . . .
in my opinion many things that can influence the input of an amp (or modeler with input impedance circuit) here a few;
1: position 2 and 4 are parallel on a strat and therefore have less output which could suit the disco inferno and it the amp is set to a take no prisoners leadtone, it should have a lot of input compression from the amp even when the volume on guitar is rolled way down and therefore should not go too low in volume.
2: :volume pot on guitar for strat 500k is too harsh but if your are playing through a dark leadtone set amp, you can get good clean tones from the wider range 500k pot and a good treble bleed, you can also wire positions 2 and 4 to see 250k for more flex and lower output for cleaner or darker lead tones
3: treble bleed to get cleaner tones: ruclips.net/video/uxrFn1bekNQ/видео.html for strats with single coils no treble bleed, 50's wiring or duncan, for humbuckers simple method (what I use)
after a lot of experimenting, I am using now low output humbuckers with (evh or bourns) 500k volume pot and 250K tone pot (really the brand makes a difference!!!) , no splits on humbuckers, to my ears I can get all the sounds I want on an Amp/moderler that is set for a dark lead tone with just volume knob.
I play in Coverband and a Big(jazz)band with yamaha pacifica's and pickups dimarzion air classic neck and bridge and fast track or cruiser in middle, in my opinion these pickups have a lot of headroom or headroom in the combination with the volume pot mentioned above.
I have seen Walter trout two times both times I could only see an amp (mesa) and didn't see pedals and tone was amazing, but that also has to be the player ofcourse :)
love this channel, learned a lot!
the the topic of this video has been a little quest of mine both with real amps and modeling (one lead tone does everything)
hope it's usefull.
greetings!
If playing function gigs with a need for clean, crunch, distortion and lead boost, as well as modulation & echo, it would be pretty difficult to play that with only one amp. Katana excluded of course! Could do it with a volume pedal at a push.
If playing only one style of music, like blues, it would be quite refreshing.
I used to be a purest. I only played acoustic. Once you start pushing electrons it’s all good. Make the sounds you want
Use what you need for the result you want. His resulst doesn't require pedals.
Walter was a pioneer of Dr Z amps, indeed I saw him at Salisbury theatre with John Mayall back in the 90s and turned me to Dr Z amps. He has been big in the Dr Z forum 😃😃. The video is correct. So while with Mayall that was his go to amp
Amp gain & pedal gain feel different. I feel the amp gain is maybe preferable. But I could always use more gain, unless it's a high gain amp (in which it lacks a saggy character); and importantly amp gain is less flexible. So for guitarists who's sound is basically "shades of gain" and nothing more, yeah I get it. But if you ever think "delay would be nice." you should probably get into gain staging. Whatever variant that be, pedals, modelling etc.
Playing your own music means you can do what ever you want. Playing covers means you have to do what the songs dictate. So you need more than a couple of sounds. I spent a long time playing straight in. I loved it, but it was for original music. Can’t do that when covering. Need at least delay for so many songs. Not to mention a whole lot of gain sounds.
Walter needs two sounds and you need three. Mesa amps cater for this or you could add an OD pedal for crunch rhythm to a 2 channel amp.
If you have to play covers in many styles, it doesn’t make a lot of sense? Can totally work great if you’re doing a narrow range of styles. I love using this kind of approach but adding some kind of Boost/Fuzz/Overdrive, and the Strymon Flint.
Trout plays very, very loud with a singularly aggressive tone. Good for him. Next.
Playing gigs at different small venues without a keyboard player people always ask how I got that organ sound and I point to my H9
Does the sound you hear in your head come out? That's my philosophy. Is Adrian Belew more creative than Walter Trout? I know the answer to that
i got him beat... i don't even plug into the amp.
My problem is that even with amps that can clean up relatively well, there is still a massive volume drop. What do you do to remedy that?
I got rid of all my pedals and couldn't be happier. It's not possible for every gigging musician though.
As a blues player myself I never use that much gain. One of the things that high gain blues rock players lose is the use of dynamics in playing and the fact that in soloing you are still telling the story that you started in the song. Just listen to B B King and you will get what I'm saying.
I like playing with effects, but anything beyond reverb, tremolo, gain, wah,and maybe a slap back delay, I personally feel silly. I think it’s a combination of lack of experience with effects and preferred styles of music. No right or wrong answer. To each their own.
It really depends on what style of music you're playing. Straight ahead blues like he plays is fine without pedals. But if you have to create texture or recreate certain sounds its nonsense
But must you stick to one guitar? If you have three guitars let's say a stock strat, Les Paul or ES 335 type and a high gain humbucking guitar then you can get a lot out of one amplifier rather than just sticking with one guitar but if you listen to Jeff Beck he did just fine
I've never liked Walter Trouts tone but I can dig that he just wants to keep things simple
I like some overdrive.. but I hate multieffect pedals! Most of the time I like the guys with just the cable and an amp much more than the pedalguys.
Not sure , but .. Its possible Walter doesn’t play in wedding / function / pub bands where you have dozens of different styles / sounds , great for da blooze but kicking off the set with The Shadows Wonderful Land would sound a bit lack lustre or U2 Strets have no name or Run Pink Floyd ... anyway , it’s nice to play your own way for you but real world gigs you need a bit of ambience / modulation going on ..
i'm ok not sounding like walter trout. if you're going to plug straight in you need to be more interesting than just blues licks. for me. some people like it. i get bored after two songs.
"just blues licks". I always find that mentality laughable, as it's so pompous and so much more reductionist than the vast variations of what could be termed "blues licks", from Son House, to Lance Lopez and everything in-between.
@@jupitermoongauge4055 just as boring.
But you don’t get bored of John playing the same fusion vid after vid with the same tones?
@@electricj5 😄no. i'm finding new ways to get from point a to point b. the tones are irrelevant.
I love listening to a good blues band, but for three hours? Perhaps only if it were one of my most favourite acts, because you get nothing but a slow blues, a medium shuffle, or a soulful ballad style number, and it hard not to be repetitive after that. The mist accessable blues artists are the ones that vary their stylistic output a little to give jaded ears a refreshing change.
Do you give private lessons ?!?!?!?
Boomers playing "Blues Rock" can live on a pedal-free planet.
I'm from Post-Punk world and their UFOs never reach my air.
Aliens.
For this to work in most gigs, you've gotta have a high gain amp of some sort, and a high pass volume pot in your guitar, or a push pull high pass like the satch signature for more versatility.
It also really depends on the amp though - when i had a 3 channel 100w Marshall JCM 2000 i did not need any drive/distortion pedals - There is obviously no 'right or wrong' - Being a purist is just a wank, you need to support the song/tone what your intentions are... And if that means you use a few pedals so be it... Kind of a nothing-burger topic really man...
It's an interesting concept until you think about it logically... Saying that you wouldn't put something that only cost $100 in front of your expensive amplifier is silly when you think how inexpensive a guitar pickup is , or how cheap the output jack is, and how inexpensive the guitar cable is...All of these components are quite inexpensive... It's not the cost of the parts, it is the sum of the parts that contributes to the sound... A pedal is just another part of the equation IF you choose to use one!
Totally true!
Didn't know Walter Trout. Is his stance valid, really? Maybe in a pure blues context, maybe. But this is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard in a while. How boring would rock and pop guitars have been in the last 50 years without pedals... This is not old school, just an extremely shortsighted view that I, being somewhat old school, certainly do not share ;).
I think anything over 20 years old is considered vintage.
Brian May goes from (almost )clean to screaming solo without any *extra* pedals through that AC30 as loud as it will go. I mean he's got a treble booster, but it's not a pedal as it's on his strap (-: and it's *always, always* on.
You could definitely play without pedals. Unless you want an effect... Then you'll probably need a pedal.
Not really
if you play blues you don't even need a guitar, just a 4-stringed shovel (as demonstrated by Justin Johnson)... but - I don't play the blues.
Be like playing with only your underwear on 😅
Trout is nothing without his scales.
Tab Benoit doesn’t use pedals, but his amps are custom built and he has his unique sound. Never heard of Walter Trout but it looks he doesn’t use soap as well.