Is it Even WORTH Gigging Anymore? The Harsh TRUTH For Musicians
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 24 май 2024
- For my Presets visit: johnnathancordy.gumroad.com/
For ArtistWorks courses: artistwork.prf.hn/click/camre...
For TrueFire courses and All Access Memberships: prf.hn/click/camref:1100lqzr3
Use the code JNC40 for a 40% discount off all courses, or JNC100 for $100 off all access membership!
We hear that Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran and John Mayer are having record levels of income on tours, but I think the "real" musician is much more likely to be found playing in Bars, Pubs, or at weddings...Is it worth doing that anymore?
/ johnnathancordy get my lesson tabs and backing tracks here
www.buymeacoffee.com/johnnath... - if you like what I do and
only if you wanted, you could buy me a coffee!
Get my PADs bundle here: www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr... (this folder will grow, and I'd encourage you to ask for different keys/songs and stuff that might suit this type of preset?)
I've decided to make it possible to grab both my Helix/HX Stomp bundles (the expression bundle with freeze presets has always been separate) together - www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr... - I will then email you a link to both bundles!
Try my general patches for Helix or HX Stomp in this bundle using this link - I will then send out the patches! www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr...
You can get my EXPRESSION patches in this bundle using this link - I will then send out the patches! www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr...
Try my patches for Pod GO using this link - I will then send out the patches! www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr...
/ johnnathancordy get my backing tracks here
www.buymeacoffee.com/johnnath... - if you like what I do and
only if you wanted, you could buy me a coffee! 
Видеоклипы
![J.P., NLE Choppa - Bad Bitty (Remix) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rBDa6BCvw10/mqdefault.jpg)
I got a daytime job, I’m doin’ alright.
Harry?
Coming out of high school in the early eighties I fully intended to be in a band full time, ended up fathering my child, which caused me to wake up very quickly. The romantic notion that music would be a stable source of revenue evaporated before it became a quest. A series of manual labor jobs, with lousy benefits and bad working conditions made it clear that I needed to figure out a way to use my head and I took up learning about computers at night when I was done cleaning a building with a computer learning center. In 1983 I got a job selling computers and 40 years later, music is my love and IT is a secondary hobby but primary and reasonable livelihood. My job enables my music. Plenty of room in my profile to say I'm not as talented a musician as I might need to be to earn a living or that I compromised my dream. No doubt - this is a journey. We each hopefully find our path and still get to make music. My livelihood is also generally enjoyable - sometimes very enjoyable, and in that, along with my music and my family, I consider myself fortunate - and am incredibly grateful.
For sure I think that's a healthy way to think about it right? Trying to keep a balance between stability, enjoyment and so on. I think often the types of dream that I had as a kid were just based on totally weird ideas like that some day some record label would show up and I'd be rich somehow....
Interesting to hear u talk about this. When I was much younger, I was a full time gigging musician in NYC and would regularly do over 300 gigs a year. In fact, there were 2 years (1984 and 1985) where I cracked 400 gigs in a year. The trick was that I was in broadway and off broadway shows. There are, in a broadway schedule, 8 shows a week- 416 a year. One summer in was in the Radio City Music Hall orchestra and played 12 shows a week for a 13 week run. No equipment to move as it stays set up. Obviously, these types of opportunities only exist in NYC and London but there are regional theaters that employ musicians. You do need some level of reading skills but oftentimes you can get the music in advance to shed the tricky parts. I did the full time thing in NYC for many years.
Were you in the musician’s union?
@@jakolleeyes I was and still am. Local 802, AFM. I think for regional theater you probably won’t need to join the Union.
We used to have bar gigs, parties and festivals. Plus selling CDs, t-shirts and lessons. Now no one has a cd player, no real bar gigs and no one has parties around here anymore. Plus it seems everyone is doing on line lessons now. It’s just a hobby for me now.
I must chime in. I’ve been making my living for the last decade as a gigging guitarist. I do any and everything from my own original projects to sideman work with artists to playing covers. I do some session work, but most of my income is from playing live. I’ve done this in New York, Nashville and now I live in the UK. There is no question that it’s hard as hell to make a living from it, and I’ve had my fair share of money scares, for sure. But it’s always worth it and it always seems to work out. It’s a DIY business but one that is in fact doable. It can take time to build up a name for yourself (which is required in any career), but over time you can rest easier and easier. In my mind the hard work is always worth it because at the end of the day I get to play music for a living, and that is the ultimate pay off.
your last written sentence is the sum of all of it. Bravo 😊
you are actually very fortunate in being able to find work consistently. I am now in my 60's and have never ever once been able to get anywhere near enough work to not need a day job at the same time. Ironically I recently retired and am now getting more music work than before, but it all feels way too late now!
@@steviesavageit’s never too late
Thanks for sharing John 🙏
Always interesting to hear this side of things....apart from anything else maybe makes me glad a "proper" job came along in my early post Uni band-gigging days!
Cheers!
Glad to hear the RUclips stuff is bringing in money too.
I have a well paying job in IT consulting. My gigging money gives me guilt-free funds for my gear *hobby*...but it's really not that much as we gig a few times a month doing weddings, wineries/breweries, and private parties. (We don't do bars) I use that word "hobby" specifically as it's not enough to live on. There's no way I could support a family even if we gigged five days a week. It also wouldn't be a satisfying family life because of the amount of time needed for that time. Between preparation, travel, setup/breakdown, food, and the gig itself, you can make far more money working in fast food.
I hate the word "hobby" 😄 It trivialises endeavours which are truly valuable and rewarding even if they don't provide us with the means to support ourselves.
@@LilOlFunnyBoy I still receive 1099s, have to track expenses and file taxes - so legally, it's not a hobby. Maybe "Side Gig" is a better word? But, alone I can't support a family on music. Regardless, It's a significant priority and passion in my life.
@@lanceholland I like that better 🙂
@@LilOlFunnyBoyHow about “avocation”? Sounds a bit more serious than a hobby, no?!
@@jakollee fine 😄 I guess, I just think defining ourselves by what we do to pay the rent is a bit sad 😐
I can’t believe it’s even a question in 2024. IMO there’s not enough money in music. Like nowhere close to enough. Music is a hobby.
You’re right that there isn’t enough money but there are plenty of people just like me who make a living just doing music (playing guitar). So it is possible and isn’t just a hobby!
You should watch Chris Buck's Friday Fretworks post from yesterday. Says his band is going to the States to perform 3 gigs. He breaks down all the costs and it's flipping eye watering. Some where in the region of £30k it's going to cost the band.
This has been something I've been both internally and externally struggling with recently. I've got 30 gigs so far this year, mostly solo cover gigs, and it's only just hit me that is probably always going to be this way. After reading that same article about orginal musicians struggling to tour (which was and will always be my ultimate goal) the realisation that the cover gigs is going to have to be the 'day job' and the original stuff is going to have to be the 'hobby' has been made clear to me now. And you know what? That's OK :)
Does it diminish the joy of music? I gig in an acoustic duo and want to start going out by myself. I already have a full time job but want music to take over as the sole income. Lad we know who does acoustic gigs comes out with about 40-50k a year who gigs nearly 4/6 times a week
@joemorris4424 there was a time where it did, but that was solely because I was resisting the fact that I couldn't do the same amount of shows for the same money with original stuff. I've had musician friends kinda turn their noise up at the fact I play those kinds shows, but I've come to the conclusion that it's because of either a) they think it's beneath them and/or b) because they can't do it. I still do my orginal stuff, and still pursue it with the idea of being able to do it full time, but as soon as I accepted and lent into the fact that this is a way for me to make a living, I felt a whole lot better about it. Where are you/your friend that plays solo based? That's a pretty nice income he's got :p
@@freddiethefabs6920 appreciate the honesty. We’re all from Newcastle in the North East. I’m not that close the lad who supposedly made that number, it was 2nd hand info.
But he plays a lot in the north east and travels for gigs too (around the UK and sometimes abroad).
@joemorris4424 I'm just following the good honest word of Mr Cordy :p I have some friends that are up from that way That do the solo stuff. What are the chances it's the same person!?! :p
@@freddiethefabs6920 a lot of people round here, but could well be
There are lots of "jobs" where only the top 5% of people actually make any money doing it.
People don't value music like food or medical care😂
@@alchemysticgoldmind4164”If music be the food of love, play on!”
As a solo pianist (jazz) I generally don't play for less than £250 per gig - usually more in the region of £300 - £350 per gig. Bear in mind that I have to take my electric (stage) piano + PA system + Stool etc, all of which has to be set up before playing, with a sound check, and then packed away and put back in my car after the gig.
Actually since Covid properly paid gigs have dried up, and I simply refuse to turn out for less than £200 even for a local gig.
Sadly, hardly any venues have acoustic pianos any more, unless it's at an Arts Centre or School/College, where if you're lucky there MIGHT be an acoustic piano , and if you're even more lucky it MIGHT be in tune and good enough to play.
And I've only ever bothered with residencies IF there's a good acoustic piano at the venue, to save me the endless hassle of taking all my gear.
In my case, I've always done some teaching and piano tuning/restoration as well - if it were merely down to gigging I'd have died of malnutrition years ago..!
There's a lot of work involved in gigging, as John has rightly mentioned. Playing solo jazz piano is very demanding in and of itself, both in terms of learing a large repertoire of songs/tunes and then rehearsing all this material.
Anyone who imagines that being musician is glamorous, think again (unless you make it onto the big stages and are paid mega-bucks).
I have played in a bands in Austin Texas. 6th street. parties etc. The pay is terrible. I now write, and record my own music playing all the instruments which is fun.
I'm with you man
..50.00 to 75.00..if your lucky 100.00..rehearsals and travel... 🫤
Honestly I think it's silly to try to do it full time precisely because it's so hard to fill the calendar with efficient pay days, by that I mean there will be a lot of low-paying wasted-hours gigs on weeknights and during the colder months so there are diminishing returns on the amount of time you invest. It's smarter to gig weekends while doing a day job even if it's just teaching it will probably pay better. I do software by day and weddings/corporate dos, jazz bars at the weekends. Doing a theater tour this year also (only on weekend dates) and playing a few stages at Glasto but honestly the main money is at private functions as you said.
My most lucrative gigging experience was as a solo entertainer. Keeping to fairly local gigs, I aimed to leave the house at 7pm, and get back by 1am. Add loading the car, and that's seven hours per gig, making for a decent hourly rate. Of course there's time spent on other preparation, and expenses, but this can still work out ok _as a part-time income, to supplement a regular wage._
are u using any fave irs for your live gigs? got one that has best amp feel through a wedge??
Very true for most musicians it's not feasible to make a living just from gigging. You need to support yourself by doing other things like teaching. Also trying to take as much as you can be stressful when you need to learn a last-minute setlist. Touring is also fun but it ends quickly and it doesn't pay a lot more unless you play with a famous act. That's just from my experience.
Im a full time musician and find it strange how low it seems they are paying people because that's not necessary the case here.
What your situation like?
Been gigging since 2000. The fees have hardly changed. My rent in London including bills was £300 a month. Food shopping for a weeks was about £15. Agents like Alive Network killed the fees. Loads of bands out for dirt cheap.
I work 38hr a week in Environmental Science. For the last 2 years, I’ve also gigged an average of 1.2 gigs a week between my own band, dep for other bands, and as part-time member of Australian Army Band. I get paid an average of $250AUD for all these kinds of gigs, and its definitely not always worth it financially, but i can’t stand to bother be busy. there is something intangible about the work that makes me keep gigging. Anyway, Love the content John, I’m going to be a dad in December, and definitely buying the ‘legato daddy’ merch to wear in the delivery room.
My gigging experiences were in the 1970s, so not very relevant today. I did have a day job too, so my gigging was really just for fun and a little extra money in my pocket. I was in a four-piece Rock band that gigged on the weekends in bars and clubs. By the 1980s I was married and I stopped gigging all together.
This is actually the reality for most musicians
Mary Spender did a vid on this last week..a UK tour of about 10 venues was costing her 25K to put on...I think?
If you need money, the best paying gigs are either as a solo or part of a duo. Sign up with some agencies and they’ll get you busy. Even 20 years ago I was making £200 a gig as a solo guitarist/singer with the dreaded backing tracks. Totally not like a band and can be boring but if you need the money……
Yeah, the most money I made as a guitarist was doing solo acoustic gigs, cocktail parties, bar-mitzvahs, etc. I’m not a great singer so I was billing myself as providing background music. I made around $200 to $300 per gig, which I didn’t have to split with anyone, and my “overhead” was pretty low, with most gigs in and around NYC. I didn’t have backing tracks, but sometimes used a ditto looper so I could play two parts and solo a little. Still, I was only doing at most one or two gigs a month, nowhere near enough money to live on, but a decent supplement to my day job.
It's getting rough economically . Live music is still the greatest thing you will always find a niche market for it.
One thing you didn't talk about - how much does a good Cover band make? It seems the ticket prices are higher (a Bread cover band just came through). I was surprised at how much the tickets cost.
That's a good question - like a tribute band playing in theaters type thing? I haven't done much of that.....
I gigged in a busy function/bar band for years and it was sometimes fun, but for the better paying gigs like weddings, you need to set up very early and stay pretty late, so whatever money we made could be for 8/10/12 hours of our time.
As the band started getting higher paying gigs the demands (both internally and from customers) for more homogenized, generic setlists took over and before I knew it I hated 3/4 of the music we were playing and bowed out.
I'm much happier playing small solo gigs where I can just play what I want.
I totally understand pleasing customers as much as you can, vut it's not worth it to me just to make a bit more money. Others in the band only wanted to be busy and casting a very wide net, musically speaking.
To me its like making pro sports,not many people make it,Sting said even if he didnt make it he would still make music,keep playing John.
Running a business is time consuming. Working with like minded musicians helps so that you have the same music learnt even if you go out as different types of bands for different gigs. Tying up regular work helps a great deal - residencies, first call for function centres etc. good agency connections. And yes, having work teaching can add stability. Ask yourself if the work you enjoy at 25 is what you want to do at 55 and plan for a career, not just a job.
Amazing and rather sad how things have changed. I started gigging in a covers band on Tyneside 45 years ago. Even after paying agent fees and costs I could make more money per month than my teachers (I was still in sixth form). Translate that to today’s money I’d need to earn £3000 a month which is never going to happen even for a good cover band. Musicians just aren’t valued enough now.
Many many years ago I worked in a few different cover bands over the course of a decade or so. I always had a day job of some kind, or I was going to college, and ultimately had a career in IT where I did pretty well. With the benefit of lots of hindsight, observing the lives and experiences of musician friends some of whom were quite amazing musicians, I've come to the conclusion that playing in cover bands, while it can be a lot of fun, is just a young man's hobby. If you are really serious about music you absolutely have to become a prolific song writer, and of course even that is an enormous crap shoot. I know of a band that had a single hit song back in the early seventies. I won't reveal it here, but it's a song almost all of us would know, perhaps even be able to sing along with. I still hear it in the supermarket frequently, it is currently the back ground music for a commercial for some pharmaceutical that I hear all the time here on RUclips. The point is that this one song has generated 100's of thousands, maybe millions of dollars in royalties over the course of 50 years.. One song! IMHO if you write songs you have a chance at making music a career otherwise, sadly, it's kind of dead end. In the end most of us have got to have some other career to support ourselves and maybe a family, buy a house, etc.. In the meantime play when you can, enjoy your passion, and try to write some killer songs.
Pro musicians over here are scraping through each month and having to sell off gear every now and then. The restaurants/clubs are cutting costs every way they can, as inflation/cost of living goes through the roof. Unfortunately, there are few other alternatives for the gigging muso. Only the “well known” ones get to add their voices to commercials etc.
Playing live for a living has always been questionably profitable at all. In the 90s when 2 bedroom apartments were $400, gas was .99 cents a gallon, and a pro level guitar was $650, you could play live from 9pm-1:20am doing covers, Wednesday through Saturday and earn $1500-$2500 a week if you were a good band. And that was cash. Split that 4 or 5 ways and it was pretty good. But you have to factor in that you are doing all your own loading in and out of gear, meaning drum kit, big amps, PA system, lights... everything. And you had to purchase all that stuff yourself. You also need to practice those 40 or so songs you play, and have a truck to carry stuff in, etc. If you were based in a big city you could also have a day job which made the money work better, but you were exhausted. If you were on the road you had expenses of hotels, food, gas. So... there was a sweet spot where it could work, but for a limited time. When DJs came along, most clubs/venues preferred to use them because you could pay one guy with a crate of CDs a couple hundred bucks a night to do what a full band used to do, and you would get back more space for more people who buy drinks, and the music would be modern and electronic, which live bands mostly didn't do.
I can't imagine trying to play live today and maintain the illusion that it would be enough money to live on. The cost of living is orders of magnitude more expensive now, and the pay is much lower to non-existent. Bottom line, you should play live because you love the experience, and because it makes you a much better musician, and because it might help you gain followers who would eventually buy something from you online (like a tshirt, but not music!). Approach it realistically and you will have a much better time. Look at live gigs as promotional events (that might COST you money) instead of things you deserve to be paid for. Being in front of an audience is a priveledge, not a right.
Earning a steady pay with music is really hard unless you are lucky enough to be a regular touring musician. Even at that, you're not earning what I consider to be a 'comfor'table' lifestyle. unless you're playing with a top act. That's why a lot of musicians also do studio sessions and other side projects to make ends meet.
Luckily for me, I'm retired from my old day job in the customer service industry and I can now do music instead of having a part-time job to earn a bit of money. Still, it's hard to find steady gigs since I would play more if I could.
I'll have to get a job as Taylor Swift's guitar player then. Simple.
It's all I ever wanted. D'you think any of my Allan Holdsworth licks will work?
Just noodle like crazy in the verses and drive her auto tune nuts
My parents are musicians and spared me their life, though I did learn to play a few instruments. I wanted to be a musician but not enough to overcome the stigma my parents put in my head
That said, I know a lot of musicians and they all supplement their income from gigging by teaching lessons and also having another part time job that is usually a min wage job.
A shame that being an instrumentalist isn’t a legit career anymore
Love this, very honest and informative.
But come on John it's pronounced "maths" not "math" 😂
There was only one math
If you enjoy gigging, and if it motivates you to practice, then it's worth it.
Session musician here. People that want to live from music and take it seriously will 99% have to relocate to a music city, the gigs you are mentioning here are a bit of the low tier gigs you do as a serious side man, you graduate from weddings to important indie touring, theater, recording sessions and eventually big mainstream tours and MDing, production and composition. The music industry is an industry, it has a lot of money on it, someone has to be the musical director for Beyoncé, the film scorer for the Avengers or the guitar player in the cover of publications, why shouldn’t it be you? It’s hard af, but if you look for opportunities, build a community around you and exist geographically somewhere where opportunities can grow, it is absolutely 100% a real job
ok - gonna stay a bedroom guitarist and continue at Maccas
I dont really like giging anymore..I wondered if something was wrong with me...Playing the same songs..Lookingbat the same people..Driving million gillion miles..Getting home at 4 in the moring..And IHate playing the same RnB tunes.. I love wrting and teaching is cool.
People ask me where Im playing..I say Ive play all tge spots in this town
.. it's no big deal...Just not impressed
Yep, I concur it is shite out there. What makes it even more laughable is the prices now for premium instruments from the big 3 when the revenues for real musicians to buy and use those instruments for what they were made for have never been lower. It's a joke quite frankly.
One last thing i would add though is that i once asked a very well respected local guitarist who worked in the local music store why he had never turned pro himself. His answer was that all the most miserable people who came in the store were pro musicians and that depending on it for money seemed to drain them of any passion for playing, which i kind of relate to.
I honestly believe so much of it is musicians themselves - this race to the bottom and unwillingness for people to actually charge what they're worth. I see all these struggling touring artists and then you look at what they're charging for entry and it's something like £10 a ticket!? - no bloody wonder you can't break even on tour. This isn't 1995 - why are people still setting their ticket rates like it is? Very few people go to a gig speculatively any more and even fewer are likely to be put off because it's £5-10 more expensive. £20 is not a lot of money these days. Is someone really gonna say "oh I was gonna go see that band if they were charging a tenner, but £15 is just out of reach for me"??? Not many I'd wager.
As for function musicians, if you aren't getting at least £250 for a nights work you're getting underpaid. Again, the bride and groom in most cases want you because they like you, not because you're the cheapest, and as such they will be willing to pay a little more to get you. Took me a while to learn this myself whereby I now charge double what I did 10 years ago. I get less gigs but make more money overall.
My town..Musicians are 5000-100.00 in the clubs or bars it's not that good
I started playing in late 2017, Started gigging while still being quite new to guitar in early 2019 to find my feet and by the start of lockdown I was either gigging as a dep in a couple of bands or for fun at open mic nights with the house band (they had a great and busy set up) Then lockdown came and it put a sharp stop to all that especially as I moved city during the 'in-between lockdowns'. I always felt I would pick it back up and now were half way through 2024 and I haven't gigged since.
This is older than john news. Ask Mark Knopler or brian adams.
Instead of playing in wedding bands - why don't you go out as the John Nathan Cordy Band. Your profile is huge now and I'm sure there is a market for that.
If he is not make the money .(As a Really GreatPlayer)Whats up for the average to Good Player?
With reduced-to-non-existent revenue from music sales, the strategy was to increase your live performances for the bulk of your income and use merch for 10-15%. Now, with gigging revenue down and adding the nightmare of AI-generated music, the viability of being a musician to support a family is completely gone.
And yet, John Cordy is doing it 🤔
@@r0bophonic For everyone 1 who is successful, there are thousands who are below the poverty line when it comes to musician-related revenue. That's John's exact point here.
@@r0bophonic Retirement, health care, down payment for a home, kid's college savings, major unexpected expenses (car repairs, appliances, etc).....it's hard to provide for a wife and 1 kid...put away 10% for retirement...have $10-15k per year for health coverage (in the USA)...and build a nice downpayment for a house unless you make A LOT MORE than John is making now.
@@lazvt8469 Exactly.
The real question..... is being an Only fans model a real job?
Yes.
Why do you think Toby Keith named his band easy money.
Sadly, its a loss cause to make a living. Rock n Roll music died in 1990. If you try the touring musician route you will go bankrupt. When you factor in fuel, food, insurance, laundry, motel, taxes, and many times, paying a fee to use the venue/bar/club you will never make a profit! ITS OVER!
Making it as a musician/ becoming a star is like buying a lottery ticket for a 1 billion dollar jackpot and winning. That is the odds of making it.
Bottom line, 95% of the population doesn't give a damn about bands or solo acts, let alone, buying music.
All that is left is the same boring 30 musician session guys in Nashville churning out the same boring, lame ass, cookie cutter pop country BS. Techno/computer female pop crap and hip hop rap crap. is the same. That is it.
The average joe/jane doesnt give a crap about real music and real musicians.
I will add one more thing, these 3 groups of singers/bands i mentioned above, are here today, and gone tomorrow.
Within 18 months there is another new generic lame ass country/computer pop/rap act with the same BORING session guys/producers churning out a new act. Seriously, within 18 months the acts that were big are already gone and forgotten about.
A new cookie cutter act has taken their place and the record producers are raking in the money again.
Being a "country/pop/rap star" is like being a porn star. ha You are used up and spit out within 2 years and the younger fresher looking one is taking your place. Reality sucks! HA! Now with AI, its all over!
Sadly, I agree. When I read about AI news and weather talking heads I knew the end is nigh. Let's stash up some acoustics and hard copy manuscripts for the days AFTER the Sun sends half the planet to Bedrock. 🤘💪
Bands in the hardcore / screamo/post hardcore genres are doing great things. There are still some real musicians there.
@@shawnmcginnis2508 There are still great players and musicians like John. My point is, there is no money to be had and 95% of the public doesnt give a damn and refuse to pay for music. Most everybody wants it for free and they dont appreciate actual music. 98% of people under 25 listen to mindless drum machines, synths, computer trance beats and mindless pop and rap crap. At this point in the history of music you gotta love playing for the love of it and making music because ya sure as hell aren't going to make any money doing it.