HOW TO: 600-HP 5.0L (SBF) POWER RECIPES
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- 600-HP COMBOS, NA, BLOWER & TURBO, 302-408 STROKER! CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO DETAILING HOW TO EXCEED 600 HP WITH FIVE DIFFERENT SBF COMBOINTIONS. CAN YOU MAKE 600 HP WITH AN NA SBF? CHECK OUT THE TESTING RUN ON THE 408 STROKER-INCLUDING INTAKE AND CAM TESTING. HOW ABOUT A PAIR OF SUPERCHARGED COMBOS-A TORQSTORM (EFI) 306 AND A VORTECH (EFI) 351W! I EVEN INCLUDED A PAIR OF TURBO COMBOS, A BLOW-THRU, CARBURETED 327 AND A TURBO (EFI) 306! ITS ALL HERE
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I’d like to see a max effort 8.2 deck. Preferably n/a or nitrous application. Something like a 363.
I had an 88 Lincoln TownCar with the low power 302 in it. I swapped in a 5.0 HO from an 88 mustang, used a stock Lincoln Mark 7 PCM to run it, rebuilt the trans and used the mustang valve body with a shift kit and the Mustang governor. Swapped in some 3.55 gears and had cat delete with flowmaster 40 series mufflers with dual exhaust. It was fun to drive but I wish I had had the budget to add boost like this. Would have been an ignorant Sunday driver.
Wait till he gets his hands on the New Godzilla engine.
I CANT HARDLY WAIT!!
I’d love to see a 600 NA horsepower build from a 302 pushrod motor without stroking it.
ThAt never happened
Right heads, camshaft, and compression and intake manifold it can.
600 HP and 608 lb ft is excellent numbers for a small block. I'd LOVE to have one of those in my old 95 Ranger Super with a Tremec 6 speed manual.
Man this has me all excited. Building a supercharged and forged 355 Gen 2 LT1 with less head than the Vortech 351W in this test, but more cam and more compression. Hoping to see similar power numbers at similar boost levels.
Good stuff. I built Quiet a few booster lil 5.0.
Boost in the lil 5.0 just hits different 🎉
I had one similar explorer block ported GT40P heads explorer intake 16 psi made 580 to the wheels. Other than the heads lifting a few times never had any block issues at that power level. Most important thing is to run lots of valve spring pressure. Detonation is the enemy
Richard, I haven’t reviewed your previous tests leading up to this well executed 600 horsepower segment yet, but I definitely will to see which combinations you chose for testing.
I don’t expect you to remember every quirky detail from so many comments but I’m especially fond of Fords canted valve (Cleveland) head combinations in either OEM iron or aftermarket aluminum configurations. With their distinct advantage for making big power numbers over in-line valve heads, I hope to see them more often as the power goals increase.
The only issue with the stock Cleveland heads (not counting oiling issues in the block) was the severe "turn down" of the exhaust ports, necessary on many Ford V8's to clear the shock towers of the 1960's car designs. Pro Stock guys actually cut the exposed exhaust port off the side of the Cleveland head and welded on box tubing to get a better design out of the head...and then kicked ass with it :)
@@albertgaspar627...I’m very familiar with the Cleveland exhaust port modifications that you mentioned. It’s most commonly known as the high port conversion that’s done to the production cast iron heads as an effective means of eliminating the sharp downward turn of the exhaust port floor near the exit. The original exhaust port was one of the many compromises done by the design engineers to allow the wide Cleveland heads to fit between the shock towers of Mustangs and other passenger cars of the time.
The high port conversion required the removal of a large section the length of the head on the exhaust side which was replaced with a piece of 1.500” thick aluminum bar stock with cutouts for each exhaust port. The result is a straight shot to the exhaust valve through the new port location which greatly improved flow, especially at the higher rpms required by a competitive Pro Stock engine.
The components for the high port conversion are still available and many of the most powerful Clevelands in competition today are running high port iron Cleveland heads.
With the exhaust improvements, many head builders also chose to improve the intake port velocity by filling about a half inch of the port floor with epoxy or aluminum inserts which resulted in a port shape and size that’s nearly identical to the modern aluminum Cleveland heads that are capable of supporting four digit power levels in naturally aspirated engine combinations.
I have a a pair of iron high port conversions along with a matched Scorpion intake manifold that were professionally done back in the day by Endyn. I’m using them on a solid roller, four bolt main iron short block build. Unfortunately I don’t have any performance results yet. I’m still getting a transmission sorted out but judging from others running iron high ports here on RUclips, it should do quite well 🏁.
I know that many of these tests were done in the past so you can't go back, but in the future, it would be helpful if you kept the boosted engines on pump gas so that the results would be realistic for street use.
If you got e85 near you.
You could go that route.
Great job, Richard!
Love all the combo hp combos. Can’t wait to see to see the small block mopar edition!
Just for reference, SCCA Trans-Am engines from the 1990's were producing 600+ N/A hp from 310 c.i. Yes, these were race engines.
Love this!!!! Ford power baby!!! Ty as always!
Extremely helpful. Great video. Thank you!
This the quickest I've seen your message and I needed this the most right now..
I built forged 408w with ported victor jr heads. Rolling thunder cam, hooker super comps headers, 8-71 blower (8 pounds of boost), also had to do a coil on plug conversion with ign-1a coils
@Joe Paul i havent yet, fairly new build. All i can say it pulls hard and will pin you in the seat. Sounds good too. Engine is in a 67 mustang coupe.
@@Jab-lj3wc sounds like a good build bet it pulls hard. I would run it on e85 fuel and try 12-15psi boost :)
@@GnarshredProductions i agree, will do soon.
Hey Richard, so I just rewatched this video and realized how different the power was naturally aspirated on the two 302 combos (the 1st and last in the video), especially the TQ curves. They had virtually the same cam TFS STG 2 vs 274 and similar intakes, TFS vs Holley. The biggest difference was obviously the two heads. The first one with a significantly better power curve ran a 170 cc intake port vs the 215cc heads. In other videos you’ve tended to show that there is no downside to a larger head or advantage to a smaller head, but it seems this testing showed that the smaller heads were in fact better or am I missing something?
You are comparing two different motors tested on two different days and dynos
I'm throwing the 500 hp combo away and starting over!!🤣🎬☕
That’s exactly what I thought of!!
Next he is going to come out with a 700 HP package then we will have to throw away our 600 HP combo
Kunal Sing 😆
Thanks for the vid, I'm going all out on my 347 build now😀👍🏻👍🏽👍🏾👍🏿
Ford power for life.
Gives me hope for the 427W I plan to build.
A test I'd be really interested in is just how much power can you get from a "streetable" engine. I mean something that idles smoothly around 6-800 RPM and has enough vacuum to run power brakes. It's pretty easy to build a race engine, just throw dollars at it. But things get interesting once you put constraints on it.
Would love to see you build a 4.6L one day. Keep up the great work 👍
look at all the mod motor 4.6L videos-ruclips.net/video/trS4YdTeCkQ/видео.html
KEEP IT GOING LIKE THE WINDSOR STUFF
Would love to see the dyno on an Edelbrock XF-8 crossram dual quad 289-302 intake
Great video!! Thanks for this!!
272👍's up Richard thanks again for taking us all along with you
Giving you a thumbs up on a video I miss giving you a thumbs up on.
I would like to see you do a combination of a 306” SBF with 600hp using stock block with TFS twisted wedge heads TFS R plenum hot cam , forged pistons and rods with 11:1:1 compression.
306 at 600 hp will take much more than that
Oh wait, I thought the 302 block split in half at 600 HP? What happened?
He glued it back together.
I'm here trying to find this same answer...
I cracked one like a egg😉
They normally do. The fact you can't bore MOST low deck Windsors past .04 inches is a hint--Ford designed this block to be a 221 cid economy car engine (ie, light weight) and in the 1980's, Ford changed the crank which is why there's a different weight flywheel needed (and the Boss 302 had screw in core plugs to strengthed their block). and there's an issue with the cam/ignition timing--the 302 and the 351W are different, with the 302 HO sharing the 351W firing order. Since a cam from either engine fits, get it wrong and #1 cylinder is firing at the wrong time while the blower pulley belt is tightened for max boost on that different crank design and...
but wait there's more! (as the ads used to say)...SOME low deck Windsors can actually be bored to .06 inches (making your 347 stroker a 355 cid). these are the blocks who tend to make the miracle "but i saw one go past 500 hp!" stories we hear.
I like the mis matched plug wires😂😂
it adds a little something
@@richardholdener1727...add a little something more for style 😉.
love your videos
As crazy as it sounds you guys should do "no replacement for displacement" vid. Having a specific budget of say like 2-3k and modify a Honda engine and compare it to a ford or Chevy small block. Dem Honda kids swear hondas are super fast but only if you dump like 20k into it even then not as much capability as say a ford 5.0 with the same amount of money dumped into.
More Coyote videos would be awesome :)
Hi Richard! thanks for doing all the combinations for everyone to see! love the videos you put up. was wondering what size fuel injector you were running on the 5.0 with the trickflow heads trickflow intake and supercharger to make 638hp? i have close to the same setup and not sure with injector size to go with.
80 pounders are always a good choice for boosted applications
Awesome job Richard! Keep it up!. Have you ever test low vs high compression ratio? Let say 9.5 vs 12.5? What's the power difference?
3-4% per 1 point in that range-less of a change below 8:1 and above 12.0:1
Do they only split under the load of actually powering the car down the track? Or the shock of the launch 🚀
I'm trying to find this answer too
can do +600hp as you say with a 5L.
Aussie 5.0L touring car's do it. but as you say, very wild combo but push between 625-650BHP. or a Nascar 5.8L for 7-800hp (run a nascar block :) )
Could also do something with a 5.2L voodoo (does that count as a SBF?
T trim 15lbs e85 performer heads and intake custom cam on a 306 sbf all tuned through Holley 607wheel!
Basic basic basic. Cheap..ish
I am surprised the 408 made only 534. It was good sized cam and great cylinder heads.
it made 603 with a good cam
Why not a high compression 347 or 363 on race gas? Would love to see those in the 600hp level.
we did 565 hp with a 363
Right on
I wanted your help I live here in Brazil and I don't have much knowledge of 302 engines. i have a mustang gt 95 v8 i put a turbo kit is the engine and stock how much is the power limit thank you if you help me....thanks
Wait, what happened to the k24a2 big bang video?
yeah, cant find it uploaded. Also live streaming never happened
could not get live stream to work-will redo (have not tested yet-just got the motor)
No comment on cost for each app.
👍👍
What gaskets are you using? ( the black and blue head gaskets, lower intake specifically) thank you for all of your videos they have helped me so much
Fel pro 1011-2 head gaskets-1262 intake gaskets for the Fords usually
Hey Mate Did you do any more n/a combo up in the 700 hp bracket,love to see some stout 363 and 408 n/a builds
I think I only have 1 na combo over 700 hp and it was a 427-but i can't find the photos
@@richardholdener1727 Photo's are nice, but the build specs are what I personally would be interested in... please do include some details on the 427 when we get to 700hp... I am guessing that was a pricey build.
Hey I would like some help I have a 1995 Ford F-150 single cab xl whit the 302 I was wondering what the stock block or bottom end hold
lots
Gday Richard. I'm starting from scratch with a 72 maverick 250 block. Should I convert to a iron Eagle dart 302, and which one for 500-550hp naturally asperated Street driven car. Cheers. Please send me a combo.
What happened to the 289?
Richard can you please do a intake manifold test between the trickflow long runner R and a box R on a 408 windsor.
I did
@@richardholdener1727 oh ok awesome.
Im gonna have to go back and find it.
Do you remember about how long ago?
@@richardholdener1727...A mysterious man of few words 😉.
You have a great channel. One question is there a way to factor in a rear wheel HP? I was told a 15% loss to the wheels?
its not a strict percentage-but that gives you an idea
A traditional automatic with a loose convertor might lose 30% and a manual tranny and a 12 bolt might lose 5%.. without a engine and chassis dyno on the same day it's really tough to make a call on power lost.
How about a 351w with holley heads?
holley no longer offers the ford heads
@@richardholdener1727 I have a set on an 89 5.0 gt that I recently purchased. Should I scrap them or use them on my planned stroker?
I’m not sure I understand, was this purely junkyard engine? Or did change the original rod bolts and main block bolts with stronger new bolts? where are the rings the original rings reap or did you put fresh rings in the engine?
on which one?
@@richardholdener1727 : It was the first engine in the video from the Ford Explorer. From what I understand that engine was a junkyard engine, two block main with stock main bolts, cast iron crank, stock rods with stock rod bolts, and stock pistons with stock rings re gapped. It’s hard to estimate the longevity of an engine like this unless you’ve owned one yourself or you know other people who have driven it until it needed rebuilding or blew up.
Considering all the 5.0 blocks that I have seen split down the middle I was wondering how many 5.0 blocks you split in half. I am constantly told these blocks won't reliably handle anything over 500 horsepower and this is coming from people that are drag racing them. Is that true or not true or a myth or were they pushing them way beyond 500 or what?
I'm here trying to find the same answer...
It’s more dependent on how much RPM you’re trying to spin them to and the tune than any particular HP number. There are many guys, myself included, making way over 500hp out of stock blocks .
Small block mopar must be next???????
Do the new 7.3 Ford!
What cam for 6500 rpm monster?
Hey man what’s the best suited heads an cam shaft for a stock rebuilt 302 Windsor running an ar/70 Turbo An inlet manifold In your opinion ? Cheers !
lots of good choices to make the power you want
Everyone talking 'split blocks' well 2 things will do it. Huge low RPM torque and throw in a little detonation and whellah!!!! Boom. Do it quick with crappy tuning!!
Looked at every comment, multiple people asked, none were answered... The 302 windsor is known to crack after 500hp.. how did you manage to surpass this?
THOUGHT EVERY COMMENT WAS ANSWERED-THEY DON'T ALL BREAK AT 500 HP-WE HAVE DONE 775 HP ON THE DYNO
@@richardholdener1727 I saw your other video talking about this after I commented. Love your videos.
I follow up with your videos as much as possible especially if sbf I've got a ranger that I'm building for a daily driver and just want have fun I've got a 88 block with trw pistons factory rods and crank promaxx 180 heads x303 cam speed master roller rockers air gap 35-6500 rpm intake AED 750 DP and I'm really wanting to do a cheap budget single turbo diy kit and I been trying to soak up as much as I can but first time boost for me so weiry.....what do you think????? Also thought about going elelbrock pro Flo 4 with a gt45???? What do you think
that works
Have you tried the pro Flo 4? What would you recommend EFI or stick with the AED? Im more old school carb type but I'm liking the idea of multi port, fuel across all cylinders and better driveability.......
Do you think the gt 45 would be good on my combo? Do you think it would make good power I Kno I'm limited to stock block but with a good tune and conservative timing you think it would run decent and how do you think it would spool?
So what do you think would be the HP loss to the rear tires? 60-70 for an auto and 40-50 for a manual.
closer to 100
What are your thoughts on EFI intakes for NA 351W/408W motors? Seems like for the higher displacement NA motors people run carb'd setups, and for boost some kind of EFI. Are there just not EFI manifolds that will support the higher displacement NA?
Box R
Richard Holdener thanks, these videos are awesome. Glad to see the sbf getting some love.
This is why LS swaps into 5.0s are so popular.
What was the boost level on the supercharged 302 with the 11R heads?
10 psi
Stock 351w pistons don't like trickflow heads
CrimzonZero88 Dremel Tool. Paper. Scissors. Rock!
why?
@@richardholdener1727 stock pistons TFS high ports and a b31 cam very close on the exhaust valve clearance
@@crimzonzero8890 fly cutter
I am in the market for a shortblock. Would you run a Dart 363 or 351w ford block to a 408w with vortech? Looking to make 650rwhp and leave it alone. But want to do it once and be done. What would you do ?
EITHER OF THOSE WILL WORK-THE 408 WILL OFFER MORE AVERAGE POWER
What are the blocks? Are these like Darts or actual production blocks?
THE BLOCKS WERE LISTED
@@richardholdener1727 sorry I feel like asshole now after just getting to the block splitting video! 🙅
Richard, the BOSS 302 with CHI 3V heads made 543HP or their abouts, do you think that combo with a 363 stroker would push to 600hp?
yes
@@richardholdener1727 that's my build of choice. Just waiting a suitable ride for it 😉
@@richardholdener1727...no doubt.
I would like to know if the pushrod trick will work with 302,306,327,331,351,393,408w
what trick
Do you use the stock rods and rod bolts when making over 500hp? I know on one occasion you used a 302 with forged internals, but what about the other ones?
we've done it with stock stuff too (with ring gap)
Stock boss 302 is forged internals and 4 bolt block and 3/8 rod bolts all factory. Been running em since the 70s.
give me stroker 351 in say a 4.125 by 4.125 bore and stroke with Cleveland style cylinder heads and a pair of turbos
Hey you probably won’t see this but have ever worked with BIGSTUFF EFI systems?
I see every comment and I have not tuned BS-but Eric from Westech has
Richard Holdener oh okay I’ll have to check him out. To be honest it’s kinda hard to find someone familiar with that
Richard I would like to see you take a stock bottom end 351W and see how much power you can get out of it with just a cam, heads, intake and carb. NO add on's. N/A only. The same with a 351M and a 400M and a 460.
look at the Edelbrock top end video (400-hp combos), there isn't much P-V left
@@richardholdener1727 I will do just that
Thanks.
Do you help with, and have access to, custom cams for a SBF? I’d like to pass you some love ($$$) if you have the ability to suggest a cam for my 408 setup. Thanks.
happy to help you for nothing-what you got
Hello ...im running a pump gas dart block 363 victor jr. Heads ...trick flow st2 cam...race tech pistons. 8.5-1 ....
Waist gate set at 12lbs...termimator x timing table is set to retard 1degree for every lbs of boost.......my question is should I #1 reduce my boost and add timing .#2 keep boost at 12 and add timing? #3 or is there anything im missing....car is running well bit I know there is more being im slightly conservative on the timing
basically what is unsafe timing im trying to get a feel for this without damaging my monster stroker....
what octane pump gas
@@richardholdener1727 93 ...beat I can get in Pittsburgh
Best I could get I meant
The car seems to be running very well...its quite fast and is pulling pretty well...running it in the 50 -75 tps range....its pretty new with only a few hundred miles yet...
How about all the GM 350’s. Always wanted to know which was the best, Chevy, Buick, Pontiac, Olds.
I would like to see that too but I'm pretty sure we all which one's the best
Close encounters of the 3rd kind
Wondering WHY Again your using nothing but off the shelf grind cams? That 408 would of made near 700hp with a Cam Motion for that combo. I've seen the gains first hand myself. The measly Extra $40-60 pays for itself not only in Peak gains but the Average across the board...
Hope you see my request on the last video to build a Old School 8000rpm 289 with high compression, good heads, & a custom ground cam!
Need to show these youngsters how Glidden & other's were making over 2hp per cubic inch
I think these videos are mostly compiled from old customer builds and magazine stuff they did a long time ago
the cam wont add another 100 hp
@@richardholdener1727 Nope it won't it'll add 20-30hp peak BUT it will completely change the graph from having a peak/crest to being way higher across the board. Just confused when it seems like your trying to show Max power gains but still staying with 1995 off the shelf grinds. It's been proven time & time again when you have head flow #'s as well as the rest of the engine data to be night & day BUT Haven't seen you show this Once on Any engine
@@TheDynotuner A lot of these were obviously done to showcase manufacturer parts in the magazines days ie. the TrickFlow top end package, the Edelbrock top end package, etc. Richard wasn't building these for the sole purpose of wringing out every last horsepower for a customer's engine. And I'd be pretty impressed to see anything even close to 700hp with an NA 408 with a 205 head and a hydraulic roller cam, custom grind or not.
@@briannelson8373...You might want to check out the RUclips dyno video posted by DragBoss. His 408 Cleveland build uses Ford A-3 aluminum Cleveland heads from the eighties, a standard production 2- bolt main cast iron Cleveland block that he has used for 20 years and a single 4-V Holley carb. He did choose to use a solid roller cam over a hydraulic roller.
It made 752 hp @ 7600 rpms and 571 pounds of torque @ 5600 rpms without any power adders. Just all engine.
In his all steel street /strip 1969 Cougar he runs consistent 9.60 quarter mile times. Not too shabby for an old Cleveland.
What would the 408 do with some boost
we did run nitrous
@@richardholdener1727...I’m the last of those with an old school analog mindset. Nitrous works quite well...but I still can’t get next to it. All engine all of the time.
And the beat goes on....
The motor Iran
How many times have you drove down the 1/4 mile richard ? Just asking
endless-but I like road racing better and Bonneville LSR
@@richardholdener1727
I wish I knew enough to build a full-nerd Bonneville racer.
Something I always wanted to ask, but I didn't know who to ask: are the ford 5.0 302 intakes just a long runner design folded over on itself like a taco as it appears?
@@xmo552 yes, long runner folded over which is better for low end/ mid range power and torque where the engine will be operating most of the time.
@@GnarshredProductions
Got it. Long runners like the 413 long ram and Chevy TPI. Thanks.
Next question. For the '88 I can never decide. Build a mean 302, 8.2 stroker, or 351 based stroker? Ugh I can never decide😁
@@xmo552 stroker is too much money. Junkyard 351w stock bottom end with twins or big single turbo.
Personally I blame squirrels
John Woodworth : Remember. 1335 Squirells equal 1 hp net. Not sure how many revs thats at.
@@deanstevenson6527 5250 rpm's of course.
reevin riggin : Even 1335 squirell cages wont allow 5252 rpm. Even co-ordinated squirells baulk. I guess we could try one huge squirell cage and just add more squirells....a co-ordinated effort. Torque is cheep.
If the squirrels were too eat beans and cabbage would it give them more boost?
John Woodworth : Mung Beans give better Carb Action...but if it it puts one Squirell in traction then its going to be Boost Limited Mate. Scotty K has got something for you at 4:23 on this video. Dillinger Squirell Escape Defeater Hardware.... ruclips.net/video/Pz0sBwv41Yc/видео.html
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