Is Sunday the Christian Sabbath? (A Formal Debate)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- Is Sunday the Christian Sabbath? This question and its application have been debated for centuries with godly men standing on both sides. This video is from a debate on this subject between Pastor Rob Ham (Presbyterian) and Pastor Keith Foskey (Baptist) on how they understand the Bible's teaching on the subject of sabbath keeping for Christians.
We hope you find this debate educational. If you like the content, please subscribe and hit the thumbs up button. Also, we would love for you to comment your thoughts on the debate below.
Very good and informative debate. I have been dialoguing with many of my reformed friends lately on the subject of the sabbath trying to understand sabbatarianism better. Thanks for uploading this.
This was excellent! Thank you for reposting!!
I love the Lord’s day!
I guess you love every day as every day belongs to God! 😇😇😇
@@rjc9537
The Lords day is and always has been the seventh day, its not a day of your choice. It's God's holy day which he blessed and hallowed for man.
Great debate full of charity. This is an issue I've been wrestling with for a while in my understanding as a reformed baptist. Both sides had really good points. I do believe that the moral law is summarized in the 10 commandments and the transcendence of the moral law and the abrogation of the civil and ceremonial laws. I believe that the Jewish sabbath is abrogated but looked forward to Christ as well as a future rest in heaven but we now celebrate the Lord’s day because of the ressurection.
Im curious about the superman sign.
Keith, I love your opening statement regarding the confusion done by equating the Lord's day with Sabbath.
Even the church fathers like Gregory the Great would make a more extreme statement by calling those who had required Saturday and Sunday to be free from all work as preachers of Antichrist.
I personally will not forbid people from observing them, but the reason should be made clear. They should never equate the Lord's day with Jewish' sabbath along with its various expectations.
I am an ex-Sabbatarian as a former member of Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God. Armstrongism also taught observance of the clean/unclean meat laws and annual festivals of Leviticus 23.
I am a Particular Baptist now. My position is that it is perfectly appropriate to use Sunday as the day of worship due to the resurrection. I believe it points towards the new creation in Christ. The seven day cycle points towards the "old order" and the eighth day (Sunday) points towards the "new order". However I do not consider it the "Sabbath".
There are other mentions of the eighth day (7+1) and the fiftieth day (7*7 +1) in Scripture that I believe point towards going past the old order and into the new order. Infants were circumcised on the eighth day in ancient Israel. Pentecost (or "count fifty") is another incidence of this occurrence.
Google the phrases "eighth day" and "new creation" and this will yield some interesting references that would be along the same lines.
.
Anyways, here's a brief excerpt from some remarks I made to a friend on this matter.
The number “8” has to do with the new creation, and so does the number “50”….which is 7*7 + 1.
Jesus worked 6 days (symbolically) in his ministry, and finished his work on the cross on Friday (“It is finished”) then rested in the grave on Saturday. He was resurrected on Sunday, the eigth day, as a new creation (in terms of his resurrection body; not in terms of being YHVH).
Jesus is the BEGINNING of the new creation; the firstfruits (I Corinthians 15, Revelation 3:1).
Hebrew children were physically circumcised on the 8th day, which is a physical type of the new birth or the new creation or being born again (Leviticus 12:3).
On the first Pentecost after the Exodus (which is calculated as the 50th day from the weekly Sabbath during Passover), the Israelites received the Law on Mount Sinai (by Jewish tradition, and supported by Exodus 19:1 "the third month"), and became a new physical nation that typified the Church.
On the first Pentecost after the resurrection of Jesus, the Holy Spirit was received by the apostolic church, and the Church became a new spiritual nation; a kingdom of priests (Acts 2).
On the land sabbath year, at the end of the year, all debt was forgiven, and there is a new beginning starting in the eighth year (Deuteronomy 15:1-6). This is symbolic of Jesus and the forgiveness of our sins to begin a new life.
On the Jubilee year, which is the 50th year in the Israelite calendar system, all debts were forgiven and the land was returned back to the original property owners; in essence a new life and a restoration (Leviticus 25:8-15). For the believer, this relates to the liberation that we receive in Jesus, where our spiritual debt is forgiven.
So, these things point toward the new creation, which starts with Jesus’ resurrection. For us, regeneration (being born again) is the beginning of our new life. Ultimately, the new creation reaches fulfillment in a New Heavens and New Earth/New Jerusalem (Revelation 21-22).
By the way, I believe this is the theological justification for the day of worship being on Sunday rather than the Jewish Sabbath. As an ex-Sabbathkeeper, it is interesting to study the relationship between the new creation and the Saturday/Sunday debate.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting stuff my grandparents are both former members as well. I have a simular view you have.
Very well explained!
The eighth-day symbolism is pretty significant to my reasoning on this as well.
The only change I would make in that argument is the death of Jesus. I agree that He rose on the 8th day, but not that he died on a Friday. Wednesday or Thursday for the narrative much better.
Even if you hold to a Friday crucifiction, more and more people don’t, so it’s best not to have that potential distraction/disagreement in your otherwise hard-to-disagree-with case.
BTW if you are interested in the reasons for disagreement about the day:
ruclips.net/video/JRxuzSdOqM0/видео.htmlsi=NXSvI17NOPB5H0s7
@@JasonJrake I'm familiar with the argument. Armstrongites believed in a Wednesday crucifixion - Sunday morning resurrection. I hold the position that the Jews viewed any part of a day as a day, therefore he was in the grave parts of Friday, Saturday, and Sunday and this constitutes three days. I am aware of the singular verse that says "three days and three nights" as well. The Armstrongites used to claim that if you didn't believe in the Wed-Sun scenario, then you don't have true faith. It doesn't sound like you would hold their view which is good. By the way, in reality they didn't believe anyone was saved other than themselves anyways.
@@Robert_Sparkman_01 I actually met an “Armstrong-ite” in my first job out of college.
Having been raised in a (relatively liberal) Church of Christ, when he told me that he grew up in a Christian cult that nobody would believe/admit was a cult, I told him I was raised in a denomination that wasn’t a cult, that everyone “reformed” person told me definitely was.
He thought that even my description of the most conservative churches of Christ was a paradise compared to how he had been raised.
I am glad that you have matured in your faith, rather than “tossing the baby out with the bathwater. “
@@JasonJrake Just wondering...when you say "Church of Christ" are you talking about the United Church of Christ (radically woke today) or the Church of Christ formed by Campbell that believes in baptismal regeneration?
I have written letters to the editor regarding wokeness and gender ideology and UCC ministers have been some of my most vocal opponents. They consider me to be "dangerous" due to my radical position that men are men and women are women.
I know individuals from the other Church of Christ and they seem to be relatively normal and conservative. I know that they believe some odd things and I am a Reformed Baptist but I don't bother to criticize them unlike the UCC. I suppose my targeting systems are more locked on on groups like UMC, UCC, ELCA, PCUSA, Episcopalians, and other "affirming" churches nowadays...
I’m a messianic Jew and a majority of Messianic churches hold to the sabbath being on Saturday. I personally do not adhere to it given that Jesus fulfilled the law already, thus making it unnecessary to keep it. However, I still believe in a day of rest, it should be taken whenever we have time to do so. At the end of the day, as long we hold to the same basic belief that Jesus is Lord, we’re allowed to disagree on the little things
Amen!
So pretty much you’re saying you still gather on Saturday because of custom / tradition?
I feel where we go wrong is when we take our customs, traditions and preferences and turn them into must do’s.
I don’t attend church because I have to, I attend church because I want to as there is a deep desire in my heart to want to gather together other people who profess Jesus as Lord and Savior!
However, I must admit that as church becomes more liberal and less Godly… My desire to attend is waning.
😩😩😩
I think this distinction is deceiving. Its about doing, not feeling. See parable about 2 sons. One said yes, but then failed. Another said no, but then felt bad and did the task. Latter is better.
I maybe a gentile Christian, but even I still attend a sabbatarian church; the Seventh Day Baptist church, a very little known evangelical, Bible-believing Christian denomination that observes Saturday sabbath.
And that's only because I don't believe that was simply a Mosaic law for the Israelites; this is a moral law from the Ten Commandments, which is relevant to both Jews and Christians alike. And the seventh day rest had been since the day of creation; God blessed and sanctified the seventh day to rest after all His work.
I still disagree with all these modern Christian arguments that keeping sabbath Saturday was just for the Jews, and we can take liberty to do whatever we want with it in the New Testament, and that all the scriptures in NT they use to back it up are being interpreted incorrectly.
SDA are not Christian, and they do *not* Believe the Bible, because they Deny the Five Points of Grace that are *Clearly* taught by the Bible, they Deny the Gospel *utterly* in their Denial of the Five Points of Grace, and they are thus dead in Sin!
They are Arminian, this means, as per the 1619 Synod of Dort, that they are *Damnable Heretics* ! preachers of an *Accursed* false "gospel" of Works, Law, and Fear, the *Lies* of White (which proves the SDA a Non Christian cult, it had a woman leader, women are not even permitted to *speak* in Church, but are commanded to keep Silence, and they are utterly *Forbidden* from Preaching or having Authority over men!) Wesley, Arminius, Rome, Pelagian, Hell and Satan! this means that they are *Non Christians* (as Per 1619 Synod of Dort were all Arminians were Commanded to be Excommunicated and Non Christians) , but are Instead *Unbelievers and Idolaters* as per the 1619 Canons of Dort.
*Repent and Believe the Gospel to be Saved* @@MattKlubeck
@@MattKlubeck I hope you're having a blessed Sabbath.
Brother Keith is wrong when he said "we are not saved by keeping that day [the sabbath] anymore." No one was EVER saved by keeping the sabbath or any other law. That is what the jews and judaizers believed. The Law was a schoolmaster pointing to Christ. No one was ever saved by keeping the law for no one was ever able to do so WITHOUT sin. No old testament saint was considered righteous in God's sight because he kept the law, for no soul then or now has done that perfectly as to be justified by his OWN righteousness.
I was just thinking the same thing.
The 2 most commonly use are:
Acts 20:7
Verse: "On the first day of the week, we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight."
1. Timing: According to Jewish reckoning, a day begins at sunset. Thus, the "first day of the week" (Sunday) would begin at sunset on what we consider Saturday night. The gathering in Acts 20:7 occurred on Saturday night, a continuation of the Sabbath worship that day.
2. Breaking Bread: The phrase "to break bread" can refer to a regular meal. In Acts 2:42, it is noted that the early Christians "devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer," suggesting that breaking bread was a daily practice, not confined to a specific day of the week, and not exclusive to a sacred day of worship.
3. Context: This verse describes a specific event where Paul and the disciples gathered on the first day of the week to break bread and Paul preached. The context shows this as a narrative description of a one-time event rather than an establishment of a regular practice or commandment, undermining or replacing the Sabbath worship found in the Decalogue.
4. First Day of the Week: While it mentions the first day of the week (Sunday), the emphasis seems more on Paul's departure and his long sermon rather than instituting a new worship practice. The meeting have been more practical due to Paul’s travel plans rather than a doctrinal statement about worship. In fact, Paul traveled the next morning (Sunday), further proving that Sunday is an ordinary day.
1 Corinthians 16:2
Verse: "On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made."
1. Context: Paul is instructing the Corinthians to set aside money for the collection for the saints (no indication as tithe). This practice of setting aside money on the first day of the week was more about logistical convenience for collecting funds rather than establishing a worship day.
2. Private Action: The instruction is for individuals to set aside money privately ("each one of you"), not necessarily implying a communal gathering for worship, but rather a common earning or working day. It is an organizational matter, ensuring the fund is ready when Paul arrives.
3. No Mention of Worship: The verse does not mention worship, prayer, breaking bread, or any other elements typically associated with a worship service. It focuses solely on preparing a financial collection.
Summary
Acts 20:7 describes a gathering on what would be Saturday night, and breaking bread was a daily practice for early Christians (Acts 2:42), not confined to a specific day. Both Acts 20:7 and 1 Corinthians 16:2 describe practices occurring on the first day of the week but do not explicitly prescribe Sunday as a day of worship. Acts 20:7 is a narrative of a particular event, while 1 Corinthians 16:2 is an instruction for financial preparation. Neither verse directly commands or establishes Sunday as the new Sabbath or a regular day for Christian worship services.
Biblical Perspective on Sunday Worship
1. No Direct Command:
- The New Testament does not explicitly command or even provide a slight indication for the replacement of the Sabbath with Sunday worship. The focus of the New Testament is on the resurrection of Jesus, rather than instituting Sunday as a new day of rest or worship.
2. Continuity with Sabbath Observance:
- Jesus observed the Sabbath regularly, as seen in Luke 4:16 and Matthew 5:17-19. The apostles’ observance of the Sabbath is also documented in Acts 13:14, 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, and 18:4. These references underline the Sabbath's importance in their practice.
3. Gentile Converts and the Sabbath:
-Gentile converts to Christianity continued to observe the Sabbath, indicating its ongoing importance in early Apostolic Christian practice and highlighting its continued significance. In Acts 13:42 and 44, we see that these converts were present in the synagogue keeping the Sabbath, showing their continued observance and respect for this day.
4. Unscriptural Theological Development:
- The practice of Sunday worship developed gradually over time during the post-apostolic era, influenced by theological reflections and traditions prevalent in the Roman Empire at that time. These aimed to honor Sunday observance, using Jesus' resurrection on that day as an unwarranted justification. This development was not based on an explicit New Testament command or practice but diverged from the original Sabbath observance, which is one of the commandments in the Decalogue.
5. Deviation from Apostolic Practice:
- The early Church Fathers deviated from the original teaching and practice of Jesus and the apostles regarding the Sabbath commandment. As prophesied by Paul in Acts 20:29 (KJV), "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock", there was a significant departure from the original apostolic teaching and practice.
6. Pagan Origins of Sunday Worship:
-Sunday worship has pagan origins steming from historical and cultural practices that predate Christianity.
Here's a summary of this perspective:
1. Roman Sun Worship:
- In ancient Rome, Sunday was dedicated to the sun god, Sol Invictus. This day was considered auspicious for sun worship, and various sun deities were honored on this day, including the later imperial cults.
2. Heliocentric Influence:
- The influence of heliocentric (sun-centered) religion was widespread in the Roman Empire. Sunday was already a day of rest and celebration in honor of the sun, a practice that was integrated into Christian worship practices as Christianity became more entrenched in Roman culture.
3. Early Christian Adaptation:
- As Christianity spread through the Roman Empire, church leaders adapted certain cultural and religious practices to facilitate conversion and integration. The observance of Sunday as a day of worship was influenced by the existing Roman tradition of sun worship, helping to bridge the gap between pagan practices and Christian worship.
4. Constantine’s Edict:
- In 321 AD, Emperor Constantine issued an edict making Sunday a day of rest from labor, aligning with the established Roman practice and facilitating the transition to Christian observance. This move was part of a broader effort to merge Christian practices with prevailing cultural norms, which is basically paganism.
Conclusion
The New Testament does not provide a direct command or indication to replace the Sabbath with Sunday. Gentile converts to Christianity maintained Sabbath observance, reflecting its ongoing significance. The emphasis on Sunday as a day of worship developed through tradition and theological reflection, diverging from the original Sabbath observance as established by Jesus and the apostles. The association of Sunday worship with pagan sun worship reflects historical developments where post-apostolic Christians adapted cultural practices to their new religious context with in the Roman Empire. While the Christian observance of Sunday ultimately became centered on the resurrection of Jesus, its timing and some associated practices were influenced by pre-existing Roman traditions dedicated to the sun as a god.
Christ is our Sabbath. We find our rest in Him.
Sunday is not the sabbath for Christians. In fact you will find nothing in the bible that changed the sabbath from the seventh day to the first day of the week.
The Church met on the first day of the week, and Christ appeared to his followers on the first day of the week. As a creature of the new order by being born again, it is perfectly appropriate for believers to observe the first (eighth) day.
@@Robert_Sparkman_01
-- "On the day of preperation, at the hour of dinner, there came out pursuers and horsemen" and Polycarp was killed "on *the great day of the Sabbath* at the eighth hour"
(The encyclical epistle of the church at Smyrna, the Martyrdom of Polycarp, Bishop of Smyrna. Verses 7.1 & 8.1 Charles H. Hoole's 1885 translation.)
-- "Again as to the assertion that Sabbath has been abolished. We deny that He has abolished it plainly; for He was Himself Lord of the Sabbath."
(Archelaus c. 3rd century.)
-- "Gnostic 8th day Origins"
"They affirm that man was formed on the eighth day, for sometimes they will have him been made on the sixth day, and sometimes on the eighth, unless perchance they mean that the earthly part was formed on the sixth day, but his fleshly part on the eighth, for these two things are distinguished by them."
(Irenaeus of Lyons c. 2nd century.)
-- The Gnostic "Eight Day" origins of Sunday rest.
"But the works of the Nicolaitans in that time were false and troublesome men, who, as ministers under the name of Nicholas, had made for themselves a hersey, to the effect that what might be offered to Idols might be exorcised and eaten, and whoever should have committed fornication might receive peace on the eighth day."
(Victorinious of Pettau c. 3rd century.)
-- "For almost all the churches throughout the world celebrate the mysteries on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of *Alexandria and Rome* on account of some *ancient tradition* cease to do this."
(Socrates Scholasticus c. 380 - 439 A.D.)
👉Ancient tradition ~ die solis
-- "There are many here among us now, who fast on the same day as the Jews, [Rome made the Sabbath day a fast] and keep the Sabbaths in the same mannor."
(John Chrysostom c. 339 - 407 A.D.)
-- 'Primitive Christianity' Athanasius Bishop of Alexandria tells us that "They assemble on Saturday, not that they are infected with Judaism, but only to worship Christ the Lord of the Sabbath"
(Pseudo Athanasius; William Cave c. 1676)
-- "Thus Christ did not at all rescind the Sabbath, He kept the law thereof.....even in the case before us He fulfilled the law while interpreting its condition; moreover, He exhibits in a clear light the different kinds of work, while doing what the law excepts from the sacredness of the Sabbath and while imparting to the Sabbath itself, which from the beginning had been consecrated by the Benediction of the Father. An additional sanctity by His own Beneficent action. For He furnished to this day divine safeguards..... *a course which His adversary would have pursued for some other days, to avoid honouring the Creator's Sabbath* and restoring to the Sabbath the works which were proper for it."
(3rd century Tertillian on the Sabbath.)
*Council of Laodicea* canon 29 A.D. 363
"Christians must not Judaize by resting on the sabbath day, but must work on that day, rather honoring --the Lord's Day-- [Sun-day] and, if they can, resting as Christians.
But if they they shall be found to be Judaizers, let them be an anathema from Christ."
^
Proof that true Christianity still remembered the sabbath day, to keep it Holy, even in the fourth century A.D.
@@Robert_Sparkman_01
-- In 563 AD Columba (of Ireland) and twelve of his brethren set out to do missionary evangelism, settling in Iona, an island in the inner Hebrides, in Scotland.
They founded the Abbey on Iona.
They were Seventh-day Sabbath-keepers living in Scotland during the sixth century. This would continue until the eleventh century AD.
-- “Professor Andrew Lang says of them [churches set up or inspired by St. Patrick]:
‘They worked on Sunday, but kept Saturday in a Sabbatical manner.’ -‘A History of Scotland from the Roman Occupation,’ Vol. I, p. 96. New York: Dodd, Mead, and Co., 1900.
-- “Dr. A. Butler says of Columba:
‘Having continues his labors in Scotland thirty-four years, he clearly and openly foretold his death, and on Saturday, the ninth of June, said to his disciple Diermit: ‘This day is called the Sabbath, that is, the rest day, and such will it truly be to me; for it will put an end to my labors.’ -‘Butler’s Lives of the Saints,’ Vol. I, A.D. 597, art. ‘St. Columba,’ p. 762. New York: P. F. Collier.
-- “In a footnote to Blair’s translation of the Catholic historian Bellesheim, we read:
‘We seem to see here an allusion to the custom, observed in the early monastic Church of Ireland, of keeping the day of rest on Saturday, or the Sabbath.’ 🫢-‘History of the Catholic Church in Scotland,’ Vol. I, p. 86.
-- “Professor James C. Moffat, D.D., Professor of Church History at Princeton, says:
“It seems to have been customary in the Celtic churches of early times, in Ireland as well as Scotland, to keep Saturday, the --Jewish-- Sabbath as a day of rest from labor. *They obeyed the fourth commandment literally upon the seventh day of the week* -‘The Church in Scotland,’ p. 140. Philadelphia: 1882.
“But the Church of Rome could never allow the light of pure apostolic Christianity [in contrast to the “darkness of impure and corrupted apostolic Christianity,” the mother of which is the Romanized Papal Church headquartered in Rome!] to shine anywhere, for that would reveal her won religion to be apostasy. Pope Gregory I, in 596, sent the imperious monk Augustine, with forty other monks, to Britain. Dr. A Ebrard, says of this ‘mission’:
‘Gregory well knew that there existed in the British Isles, yea, in a part of the Roman dominion, a Christian church, and that his Roman messengers would come in contact with them. By sending these messengers, he was not only intent upon the conversion of the heathen, but from the very beginning he was also bent upon bringing this Irish-Scotch church, which had been hitherto been free from Rome, in subjection to the papal chair.’ -‘Bonifacius,’ p. 16. Guetersloh, 1882. (Quoted in Andrews’ ‘History of the Sabbath,’ fourth edition, revised and enlarged, p. 532).
You will not find one scripture verse supporting Sunday replacing God's holy Sabbath day.
Christ IS the Sabbath for the Christian. As Christians, we gather on the Lord's Day, the first day of the week, to celebrate the Sabbath we enjoy in Christ's death, burial and resurrection. Anyone who places any restriction on what a Christian may or may not do on the Sabbath is violating the Scriptures.
Christ is the Sabbath for a Christian
How about Christ is the true and faithful witness..therefore one can bear false witness
This logic doesn't work
One point you guys miss is that the Sabbath is not only a spiritual rest but also a physical rest
Just like baptism is a spiritual ordinance but is also physical
Just like the Lord's supper is spiritual but is physical too
I also didn’t hear anyone mention exodus 20 appealing to creation for the fourth commandment. It seemed Keith said the commandment appealed to the exodus and not creation which is 100% false.
Biblical Perspective on Sunday Worship
1. No Direct Command:
- The New Testament does not explicitly command or even provide a slight indication for the replacement of the Sabbath with Sunday worship. The focus of the New Testament is on the resurrection of Jesus, rather than instituting Sunday as a new day of rest or worship.
2. Continuity with Sabbath Observance:
- Jesus observed the Sabbath regularly, as seen in Luke 4:16 and Matthew 5:17-19. The apostles’ observance of the Sabbath is also documented in Acts 13:14, 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, and 18:4. These references underline the Sabbath's importance in their practice.
3. Gentile Converts and the Sabbath:
-Gentile converts to Christianity continued to observe the Sabbath, indicating its ongoing importance in early Apostolic Christian practice and highlighting its continued significance. In Acts 13:42 and 44, we see that these converts were present in the synagogue keeping the Sabbath, showing their continued observance and respect for this day.
4. Unscriptural Theological Development:
- The practice of Sunday worship developed gradually over time during the post-apostolic era, influenced by theological reflections and traditions prevalent in the Roman Empire at that time. These aimed to honor Sunday observance, using Jesus' resurrection on that day as an unwarranted justification. This development was not based on an explicit New Testament command or practice but diverged from the original Sabbath observance, which is one of the commandments in the Decalogue.
5. Deviation from Apostolic Practice:
- The early Church Fathers deviated from the original teaching and practice of Jesus and the apostles regarding the Sabbath commandment. As prophesied by Paul in Acts 20:29 (KJV), "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock", there was a significant departure from the original apostolic teaching and practice.
6. Pagan Origins of Sunday Worship:
-Sunday worship has pagan origins steming from historical and cultural practices that predate Christianity.
Here's a summary of this perspective:
1. Roman Sun Worship:
- In ancient Rome, Sunday was dedicated to the sun god, Sol Invictus. This day was considered auspicious for sun worship, and various sun deities were honored on this day, including the later imperial cults.
2. Heliocentric Influence:
- The influence of heliocentric (sun-centered) religion was widespread in the Roman Empire. Sunday was already a day of rest and celebration in honor of the sun, a practice that was integrated into Christian worship practices as Christianity became more entrenched in Roman culture.
3. Early Christian Adaptation:
- As Christianity spread through the Roman Empire, church leaders adapted certain cultural and religious practices to facilitate conversion and integration. The observance of Sunday as a day of worship was influenced by the existing Roman tradition of sun worship, helping to bridge the gap between pagan practices and Christian worship.
4. Constantine’s Edict:
- In 321 AD, Emperor Constantine issued an edict making Sunday a day of rest from labor, aligning with the established Roman practice and facilitating the transition to Christian observance. This move was part of a broader effort to merge Christian practices with prevailing cultural norms, which is basically paganism.
Conclusion
The New Testament does not provide a direct command or indication to replace the Sabbath with Sunday. Gentile converts to Christianity maintained Sabbath observance, reflecting its ongoing significance. The emphasis on Sunday as a day of worship developed through tradition and theological reflection, diverging from the original Sabbath observance as established by Jesus and the apostles. The association of Sunday worship with pagan sun worship reflects historical developments where post-apostolic Christians adapted cultural practices to their new religious context with in the Roman Empire. While the Christian observance of Sunday ultimately became centered on the resurrection of Jesus, its timing and some associated practices were influenced by pre-existing Roman traditions dedicated to the sun as a god.
Jesus Christ is the Christian's Sabbath, not Saturday or Sunday.
That is not biblical. Jesus is Lord even of the sabbath day.
@larrybedouin2921
Yes it is biblical. Jesus is our Sabbath rest. We fulfill the Sabbath by remaining in Him.
@@DefenderoftheCross
Yes, he is our rest, but he is not the sabbath day.
And *the LORD gave them rest round about* according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
{Joshua 21:44}
And all Judah rejoiced at the oath: for they had sworn with all their heart, and sought him with their whole desire; and he was found of them: and *the LORD gave them rest round about*
{2 Chronicles 15:15}
Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.
{Psalm 95:11}
They also had the seventh day sabbath.
No this rest is not about a day, but trusting in God.
The sabbath was made for man, therefore it is not against us.
@@larrybedouin2921
The Sabbath day was a type and shadow of Christ.
@@DefenderoftheCross
It's not a Levitical law.
It is the 4th commandment of God.
Now of the things which we have spoken this is *the sum* We have such an high priest, (of the order of Melchizedek; chapter 7) who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty *in the heavens*
A minister of *the sanctuary* and of the true tabernacle, *which the Lord pitched and not man*
For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
(His life; "no greater love"...)
For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests [Levitical] that offer gifts according to the law:
Who serve unto the example and *shadow* of *heavenly things* as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make *the tabernacle* for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to *the pattern* shewed to thee in the mount.
*But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry* by how much also *he* is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
*For if that first covenant had been faultless then should no place have been sought for the second*
For *finding fault with them* he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; *I will put my laws into their mind and write them in their hearts* and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
{Hebrews 8:1-10} (Jer 31:31-33)
Wow, the presby absolutely crushed it, and was not in any way refuted.
Pastor Fosky isn't Presbyterian, just so you know! 😅
@@shanewomack89 right 👍🏼
Truth
“And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory?”
2 Corinthians 3:3-8 ESV
Do believers live under the old covenant law or do we live under the power of God’s Spirit living in us?
Why would I harken back to the ministry of death written in stone when the Minister of Life lives in me?
“For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life”
Is the law abolished or not needed for today? Absolutely not as unbelievers will be judge by it.
Do believers still need “the tutor” of the law?
“But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.”
Galatians 3:23-25 NKJV
If we are no longer under the tutelage of the law, then who are we under the tutelage of?
JESUS CHRIST!!!
Sunday for the regenerated Christian is one of the seven days that we can rest in the Sabbath from our works since we left the garden.
When Jesus left the Garden he entered into our own works for all mankind to rest in Himself.
Romans 14 some men believe one day is more holy than another. Let each one be fully convinced which ever day they choose is acceptable.Some men worship the Lord on a certain day to honour Him
Romans 14 does not talk about sabbath
Biblical Perspective on Sunday Worship
1. No Direct Command:
- The New Testament does not explicitly command or even provide a slight indication for the replacement of the Sabbath with Sunday worship. The focus of the New Testament is on the resurrection of Jesus, rather than instituting Sunday as a new day of rest or worship.
2. Continuity with Sabbath Observance:
- Jesus observed the Sabbath regularly, as seen in Luke 4:16 and Matthew 5:17-19. The apostles’ observance of the Sabbath is also documented in Acts 13:14, 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, and 18:4. These references underline the Sabbath's importance in their practice.
3. Gentile Converts and the Sabbath:
-Gentile converts to Christianity continued to observe the Sabbath, indicating its ongoing importance in early Apostolic Christian practice and highlighting its continued significance. In Acts 13:42 and 44, we see that these converts were present in the synagogue keeping the Sabbath, showing their continued observance and respect for this day.
4. Unscriptural Theological Development:
- The practice of Sunday worship developed gradually over time during the post-apostolic era, influenced by theological reflections and traditions prevalent in the Roman Empire at that time. These aimed to honor Sunday observance, using Jesus' resurrection on that day as an unwarranted justification. This development was not based on an explicit New Testament command or practice but diverged from the original Sabbath observance, which is one of the commandments in the Decalogue.
5. Deviation from Apostolic Practice:
- The early Church Fathers deviated from the original teaching and practice of Jesus and the apostles regarding the Sabbath commandment. As prophesied by Paul in Acts 20:29 (KJV), "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock", there was a significant departure from the original apostolic teaching and practice.
6. Pagan Origins of Sunday Worship:
-Sunday worship has pagan origins steming from historical and cultural practices that predate Christianity.
Here's a summary of this perspective:
1. Roman Sun Worship:
- In ancient Rome, Sunday was dedicated to the sun god, Sol Invictus. This day was considered auspicious for sun worship, and various sun deities were honored on this day, including the later imperial cults.
2. Heliocentric Influence:
- The influence of heliocentric (sun-centered) religion was widespread in the Roman Empire. Sunday was already a day of rest and celebration in honor of the sun, a practice that was integrated into Christian worship practices as Christianity became more entrenched in Roman culture.
3. Early Christian Adaptation:
- As Christianity spread through the Roman Empire, church leaders adapted certain cultural and religious practices to facilitate conversion and integration. The observance of Sunday as a day of worship was influenced by the existing Roman tradition of sun worship, helping to bridge the gap between pagan practices and Christian worship.
4. Constantine’s Edict:
- In 321 AD, Emperor Constantine issued an edict making Sunday a day of rest from labor, aligning with the established Roman practice and facilitating the transition to Christian observance. This move was part of a broader effort to merge Christian practices with prevailing cultural norms, which is basically paganism.
Conclusion
The New Testament does not provide a direct command or indication to replace the Sabbath with Sunday. Gentile converts to Christianity maintained Sabbath observance, reflecting its ongoing significance. The emphasis on Sunday as a day of worship developed through tradition and theological reflection, diverging from the original Sabbath observance as established by Jesus and the apostles. The association of Sunday worship with pagan sun worship reflects historical developments where post-apostolic Christians adapted cultural practices to their new religious context with in the Roman Empire. While the Christian observance of Sunday ultimately became centered on the resurrection of Jesus, its timing and some associated practices were influenced by pre-existing Roman traditions dedicated to the sun as a god.
Biblical Perspective on Sunday Worship
1. No Direct Command:
- The New Testament does not explicitly command or even provide a slight indication for the replacement of the Sabbath with Sunday worship. The focus of the New Testament is on the resurrection of Jesus, rather than instituting Sunday as a new day of rest or worship.
2. Continuity with Sabbath Observance:
- Jesus observed the Sabbath regularly, as seen in Luke 4:16 and Matthew 5:17-19. The apostles’ observance of the Sabbath is also documented in Acts 13:14, 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, and 18:4. These references underline the Sabbath's importance in their practice.
3. Gentile Converts and the Sabbath:
-Gentile converts to Christianity continued to observe the Sabbath, indicating its ongoing importance in early Apostolic Christian practice and highlighting its continued significance. In Acts 13:42 and 44, we see that these converts were present in the synagogue keeping the Sabbath, showing their continued observance and respect for this day.
4. Unscriptural Theological Development:
- The practice of Sunday worship developed gradually over time during the post-apostolic era, influenced by theological reflections and traditions prevalent in the Roman Empire at that time. These aimed to honor Sunday observance, using Jesus' resurrection on that day as an unwarranted justification. This development was not based on an explicit New Testament command or practice but diverged from the original Sabbath observance, which is one of the commandments in the Decalogue.
5. Deviation from Apostolic Practice:
- The early Church Fathers deviated from the original teaching and practice of Jesus and the apostles regarding the Sabbath commandment. As prophesied by Paul in Acts 20:29 (KJV), "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock", there was a significant departure from the original apostolic teaching and practice.
6. Pagan Origins of Sunday Worship:
-Sunday worship has pagan origins steming from historical and cultural practices that predate Christianity.
Here's a summary of this perspective:
1. Roman Sun Worship:
- In ancient Rome, Sunday was dedicated to the sun god, Sol Invictus. This day was considered auspicious for sun worship, and various sun deities were honored on this day, including the later imperial cults.
2. Heliocentric Influence:
- The influence of heliocentric (sun-centered) religion was widespread in the Roman Empire. Sunday was already a day of rest and celebration in honor of the sun, a practice that was integrated into Christian worship practices as Christianity became more entrenched in Roman culture.
3. Early Christian Adaptation:
- As Christianity spread through the Roman Empire, church leaders adapted certain cultural and religious practices to facilitate conversion and integration. The observance of Sunday as a day of worship was influenced by the existing Roman tradition of sun worship, helping to bridge the gap between pagan practices and Christian worship.
4. Constantine’s Edict:
- In 321 AD, Emperor Constantine issued an edict making Sunday a day of rest from labor, aligning with the established Roman practice and facilitating the transition to Christian observance. This move was part of a broader effort to merge Christian practices with prevailing cultural norms, which is basically paganism.
Conclusion
The New Testament does not provide a direct command or indication to replace the Sabbath with Sunday. Gentile converts to Christianity maintained Sabbath observance, reflecting its ongoing significance. The emphasis on Sunday as a day of worship developed through tradition and theological reflection, diverging from the original Sabbath observance as established by Jesus and the apostles. The association of Sunday worship with pagan sun worship reflects historical developments where post-apostolic Christians adapted cultural practices to their new religious context with in the Roman Empire. While the Christian observance of Sunday ultimately became centered on the resurrection of Jesus, its timing and some associated practices were influenced by pre-existing Roman traditions dedicated to the sun as a god.
The Bible distinguishes between the seventh-day Sabbath and other ceremonial sabbaths. Here's a breakdown of each:
Seventh-Day Sabbath
1. Institution: The seventh-day Sabbath was instituted at creation "before" sin (Genesis 2:2-3), and later included in the Ten Commandments given to Moses on Mount Sinai (Exodus 20:8-11). It is called "The Sabbath of the Lord thy God".
2. Purpose: It serves as a weekly day of rest and worship, commemorating God's rest at creation week.
3. Perpetuity: The seventh-day Sabbath will be kept in the new heaven and earth (Isaiah 66:22-23) and is considered a moral commandment, intended for all humanity, and is not tied to any specific group or ceremonial law.
Ceremonial Sabbaths
1. Institution: Ceremonial sabbaths were part of the Jewish ceremonial laws given to the nation of Israel and are detailed in Leviticus 23, distinct from the 7th- day Sabbath. They are linked to specific festivals and rituals. This are refered to as "a sabbath".
2. Purpose: These sabbaths were often tied to specific events in Israel’s history and served as reminders of God's provision and redemption.
3. Temporal Nature: They were considered shadows pointing to Christ and were fulfilled in Him (Colossians 2:16-17). Unlike the seventh-day Sabbath, these were not moral laws but were part of the ceremonial system that ended with Christ's death and resurrection.
Key Differences
1. Frequency: The seventh-day Sabbath is a weekly observance, while ceremonial sabbaths occur annually or periodically.
2. Scope: The seventh-day Sabbath is universal and moral, "made by God for man" ( Mark 2:27), while ceremonial sabbaths were specific to the nation of Israel and their religious system.
3. Continuity: The seventh-day Sabbath is binding for Christians in the new covenant today (Hebrews 4:9-10), and will be kept in the new heaven and earth (Isaiah 66:22-23), while ceremonial sabbaths are not, as they were fulfilled in Christ.
By understanding these distinctions, one can see how the Seventh-day Sabbath is set apart as a continuing moral obligation, being part of the Decalogue, while the ceremonial sabbaths served a temporary, symbolic role in the religious life of ancient Israel.
This detailed comparison underscores the unique and enduring nature of the seventh-day Sabbath as distinct from the ceremonial sabbaths which were part of the Mosaic Law and fulfilled in Christ
Thank you for sharing. I didn't even know about it 🙂
I enjoy debates about Saturday (sabbath?) and Sunday (lord's day; resurrection day). thanks for this video. I was a former Seventh-day Adventist, and now am a baptist. I think the SDA church made a big hullabaloo about Saturday and they turned it into a religion So I became a Baptist and go to church on Sunday presumably because Jesus rose on Sunday. I would rather commemorate and worship on the day Jesus rose than the day he was dead. Nowhere in the bible does it say or does Jesus say which day to worship on. It's left up to us. So I think any day is good but what is bad is when people take Saturday or Sunday and make it a point of control over others who disagree. Jesus is the Savior not the day that we worship on. My two cents. I guess I am a Romans 14:5,6 centrist. I like that about Sabbath being 'a state of being'. May we work in the holy spirit to achieve THAT REST. I think debates like this bring people together to agree to disagree and love each other: isn't that what the gospel is all about?
Luke 4:16. Just follow Jesus
Biblical Perspective on Sunday Worship
1. No Direct Command:
- The New Testament does not explicitly command or even provide a slight indication for the replacement of the Sabbath with Sunday worship. The focus of the New Testament is on the resurrection of Jesus, rather than instituting Sunday as a new day of rest or worship.
2. Continuity with Sabbath Observance:
- Jesus observed the Sabbath regularly, as seen in Luke 4:16 and Matthew 5:17-19. The apostles’ observance of the Sabbath is also documented in Acts 13:14, 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, and 18:4. These references underline the Sabbath's importance in their practice.
3. Gentile Converts and the Sabbath:
-Gentile converts to Christianity continued to observe the Sabbath, indicating its ongoing importance in early Apostolic Christian practice and highlighting its continued significance. In Acts 13:42 and 44, we see that these converts were present in the synagogue keeping the Sabbath, showing their continued observance and respect for this day.
4. Unscriptural Theological Development:
- The practice of Sunday worship developed gradually over time during the post-apostolic era, influenced by theological reflections and traditions prevalent in the Roman Empire at that time. These aimed to honor Sunday observance, using Jesus' resurrection on that day as an unwarranted justification. This development was not based on an explicit New Testament command or practice but diverged from the original Sabbath observance, which is one of the commandments in the Decalogue.
5. Deviation from Apostolic Practice:
- The early Church Fathers deviated from the original teaching and practice of Jesus and the apostles regarding the Sabbath commandment. As prophesied by Paul in Acts 20:29 (KJV), "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock", there was a significant departure from the original apostolic teaching and practice.
6. Pagan Origins of Sunday Worship:
-Sunday worship has pagan origins steming from historical and cultural practices that predate Christianity.
Here's a summary of this perspective:
1. Roman Sun Worship:
- In ancient Rome, Sunday was dedicated to the sun god, Sol Invictus. This day was considered auspicious for sun worship, and various sun deities were honored on this day, including the later imperial cults.
2. Heliocentric Influence:
- The influence of heliocentric (sun-centered) religion was widespread in the Roman Empire. Sunday was already a day of rest and celebration in honor of the sun, a practice that was integrated into Christian worship practices as Christianity became more entrenched in Roman culture.
3. Early Christian Adaptation:
- As Christianity spread through the Roman Empire, church leaders adapted certain cultural and religious practices to facilitate conversion and integration. The observance of Sunday as a day of worship was influenced by the existing Roman tradition of sun worship, helping to bridge the gap between pagan practices and Christian worship.
4. Constantine’s Edict:
- In 321 AD, Emperor Constantine issued an edict making Sunday a day of rest from labor, aligning with the established Roman practice and facilitating the transition to Christian observance. This move was part of a broader effort to merge Christian practices with prevailing cultural norms, which is basically paganism.
Conclusion
The New Testament does not provide a direct command or indication to replace the Sabbath with Sunday. Gentile converts to Christianity maintained Sabbath observance, reflecting its ongoing significance. The emphasis on Sunday as a day of worship developed through tradition and theological reflection, diverging from the original Sabbath observance as established by Jesus and the apostles. The association of Sunday worship with pagan sun worship reflects historical developments where post-apostolic Christians adapted cultural practices to their new religious context with in the Roman Empire. While the Christian observance of Sunday ultimately became centered on the resurrection of Jesus, its timing and some associated practices were influenced by pre-existing Roman traditions dedicated to the sun as a god.
There are many Sabbaths. Rest on Jesus when you need to
Study leviticus 23 and understand that other sabbath doesnt fall on the 7th day. The Sabbath of the Lord is the 7th day different from other sabbaths
Christ was resurrected on Sunday, and we celebrate it every week. He is our rest because his yoke is easy and his burden is light.
By who's authority? Not by God's.
@Scribeintheink
None of those verses changes Gods holy day.
Never. Man can not change God's laws!!!
Great debate
Never realized until this debate how the epistles never prescribed keeping the Sabbath, and certainly not in any way many modern denominations do to this day (in error, I would say).
It was never annulled.
In fact the sabbath commandment is mentioned more times in the NT than another of the ten.
@@larrybedouin2921 #1 I never said it was annulled. #2 What do you mean by "mentioned"? Lots of things are mentioned in the Bible.
Romans 14:5:
“One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.”
We are not under the law, which agrees perfectly with Romans 14:5. In Christ who is our Sabbath we worship every DAY.
@@dubyag4124
For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, *eateth herbs*
Let not *him that eateth* despise him *that eateth not* and let not *him which eateth* not judge *him that eateth* for God hath received him.
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind
{Romans 14:2-5}
^
the context is a day of fasting.
@@larrybedouin2921 Almost everyone understand that verse 3 is talking about whether or not a believer may eat meat, perhaps related to meat potentially offered to idols, and is not to be connected in this way with verse 5
@@maxxiong
Verse 5 is certainly is not about changing the sabbath day to whichever day we choose.
The Law was written with finger of God so therefore is unchangeable. Mathew 5:17-18
Biblical Perspective on Sunday Worship
1. No Direct Command:
- The New Testament does not explicitly command or even provide a slight indication for the replacement of the Sabbath with Sunday worship. The focus of the New Testament is on the resurrection of Jesus, rather than instituting Sunday as a new day of rest or worship.
2. Continuity with Sabbath Observance:
- Jesus observed the Sabbath regularly, as seen in Luke 4:16 and Matthew 5:17-19. The apostles’ observance of the Sabbath is also documented in Acts 13:14, 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, and 18:4. These references underline the Sabbath's importance in their practice.
3. Gentile Converts and the Sabbath:
-Gentile converts to Christianity continued to observe the Sabbath, indicating its ongoing importance in early Apostolic Christian practice and highlighting its continued significance. In Acts 13:42 and 44, we see that these converts were present in the synagogue keeping the Sabbath, showing their continued observance and respect for this day.
4. Unscriptural Theological Development:
- The practice of Sunday worship developed gradually over time during the post-apostolic era, influenced by theological reflections and traditions prevalent in the Roman Empire at that time. These aimed to honor Sunday observance, using Jesus' resurrection on that day as an unwarranted justification. This development was not based on an explicit New Testament command or practice but diverged from the original Sabbath observance, which is one of the commandments in the Decalogue.
5. Deviation from Apostolic Practice:
- The early Church Fathers deviated from the original teaching and practice of Jesus and the apostles regarding the Sabbath commandment. As prophesied by Paul in Acts 20:29 (KJV), "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock", there was a significant departure from the original apostolic teaching and practice.
6. Pagan Origins of Sunday Worship:
-Sunday worship has pagan origins steming from historical and cultural practices that predate Christianity.
Here's a summary of this perspective:
1. Roman Sun Worship:
- In ancient Rome, Sunday was dedicated to the sun god, Sol Invictus. This day was considered auspicious for sun worship, and various sun deities were honored on this day, including the later imperial cults.
2. Heliocentric Influence:
- The influence of heliocentric (sun-centered) religion was widespread in the Roman Empire. Sunday was already a day of rest and celebration in honor of the sun, a practice that was integrated into Christian worship practices as Christianity became more entrenched in Roman culture.
3. Early Christian Adaptation:
- As Christianity spread through the Roman Empire, church leaders adapted certain cultural and religious practices to facilitate conversion and integration. The observance of Sunday as a day of worship was influenced by the existing Roman tradition of sun worship, helping to bridge the gap between pagan practices and Christian worship.
4. Constantine’s Edict:
- In 321 AD, Emperor Constantine issued an edict making Sunday a day of rest from labor, aligning with the established Roman practice and facilitating the transition to Christian observance. This move was part of a broader effort to merge Christian practices with prevailing cultural norms, which is basically paganism.
Conclusion
The New Testament does not provide a direct command or indication to replace the Sabbath with Sunday. Gentile converts to Christianity maintained Sabbath observance, reflecting its ongoing significance. The emphasis on Sunday as a day of worship developed through tradition and theological reflection, diverging from the original Sabbath observance as established by Jesus and the apostles. The association of Sunday worship with pagan sun worship reflects historical developments where post-apostolic Christians adapted cultural practices to their new religious context with in the Roman Empire. While the Christian observance of Sunday ultimately became centered on the resurrection of Jesus, its timing and some associated practices were influenced by pre-existing Roman traditions dedicated to the sun as a god.
Is this AI?
Unfortunately, Hebrews 4:9 does command the Christian Sabbath (cf. the word sabbatismos used there)
@@PuraVidaReformada 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest (4th commandment) for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his (7th day Gen.2:2-3). 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest (God's rest on the 7th day Heb 4:4), so that no-one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
This is the sabbath rest for the followers of Christ and the 7th day sabbath rest in the scripture as practiced by Jesus (Luke 4:16 KJV) And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
Here Jesus prophecied about the end times and said this basically to us:
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matthew 24:20
So in the end times there is still a sabbath day and its still the seventh day saterday.
You are breaking God's law if you do not keep it or do it on another day because what is sin?
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1 John 3:4
God bless amen
@Scribeintheink 🤦♂️ tell me then
Keith says that verse is related to AD70
And dispensationals would say that verse is related to Israel and not the church.
@@maxxiong Thats not true if you read the context off the whole chapter, Jesus is talking about the end times nowhere it says its AD70 only, thats a ridicilous statement to rid yourself of keeping the commandments of God and also we are israel so you cannot seperate the church and israel, they are the same. Show me your proof thats its only to the people in AD70?
@@maxxiong
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matthew 24:20-24
So the great tribulation is only for the people in 70AD???
Rumours of wars only for the people in 70AD???
Many false prophets shall arise only for the people in 70AD???
They shall deliver us and kill us for the sake of Jesus name only for the people in 70AD???
There shall be famines,earthquakes and pestilences only for the people in 70AD???
Read the whole chapter man and repent, its crystal clear.
God bless
@@Eric-vj8yr Verse 15-16 are clearly talking about events in the area of Israel, about the desecration of the temple. They are talking about some sort of war in that area. The Sabbath being mentioned in this context does not mean anything for the rest of Christianity.
The implication of the passage is that fleeing on the winter and on the Sabbath is bad for some reason. It doesn't say fleeing on the Sabbath is sinful. It is just as likely that fleeing on the Sabbath is problematic for other reasons (eg. non-Christian Jews may turn against them).
BTW I question the idea that the Sabbath, as God intended, prevents someone from fleeing a city if an emergency occurs on the Sabbath, due to the principles in Matthew 12.
Anyways, I don't want to engage in serious discussion with fringe groups.
I'm calling Rob "Reverend Ham" from now on lol
There is no other sabbath in the Bible than the 7th day.
I think that the distinctions between the laws are what make this a difficult to understand. We don’t see division in the law in the Bible, either you,keep the whole law or you don’t, that is why Christ fulfilled the law that we couldn’t.
I strongly believe Sunday is the Sabbath and that the 4th commandment is still to observe the Sabbath, but pastor Keith, you DEFINITELY won this debate!
The fourth commandment says to keep the seventh day holy, not the first day.
Be blessed
@Scribeintheink I'm a follower of Christ, and I had a blessed Sabbath.
Thanks and peace
Biblical Perspective on Sunday Worship
1. No Direct Command:
- The New Testament does not explicitly command or even provide a slight indication for the replacement of the Sabbath with Sunday worship. The focus of the New Testament is on the resurrection of Jesus, rather than instituting Sunday as a new day of rest or worship.
2. Continuity with Sabbath Observance:
- Jesus observed the Sabbath regularly, as seen in Luke 4:16 and Matthew 5:17-19. The apostles’ observance of the Sabbath is also documented in Acts 13:14, 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, and 18:4. These references underline the Sabbath's importance in their practice.
3. Gentile Converts and the Sabbath:
-Gentile converts to Christianity continued to observe the Sabbath, indicating its ongoing importance in early Apostolic Christian practice and highlighting its continued significance. In Acts 13:42 and 44, we see that these converts were present in the synagogue keeping the Sabbath, showing their continued observance and respect for this day.
4. Unscriptural Theological Development:
- The practice of Sunday worship developed gradually over time during the post-apostolic era, influenced by theological reflections and traditions prevalent in the Roman Empire at that time. These aimed to honor Sunday observance, using Jesus' resurrection on that day as an unwarranted justification. This development was not based on an explicit New Testament command or practice but diverged from the original Sabbath observance, which is one of the commandments in the Decalogue.
5. Deviation from Apostolic Practice:
- The early Church Fathers deviated from the original teaching and practice of Jesus and the apostles regarding the Sabbath commandment. As prophesied by Paul in Acts 20:29 (KJV), "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock", there was a significant departure from the original apostolic teaching and practice.
6. Pagan Origins of Sunday Worship:
-Sunday worship has pagan origins steming from historical and cultural practices that predate Christianity.
Here's a summary of this perspective:
1. Roman Sun Worship:
- In ancient Rome, Sunday was dedicated to the sun god, Sol Invictus. This day was considered auspicious for sun worship, and various sun deities were honored on this day, including the later imperial cults.
2. Heliocentric Influence:
- The influence of heliocentric (sun-centered) religion was widespread in the Roman Empire. Sunday was already a day of rest and celebration in honor of the sun, a practice that was integrated into Christian worship practices as Christianity became more entrenched in Roman culture.
3. Early Christian Adaptation:
- As Christianity spread through the Roman Empire, church leaders adapted certain cultural and religious practices to facilitate conversion and integration. The observance of Sunday as a day of worship was influenced by the existing Roman tradition of sun worship, helping to bridge the gap between pagan practices and Christian worship.
4. Constantine’s Edict:
- In 321 AD, Emperor Constantine issued an edict making Sunday a day of rest from labor, aligning with the established Roman practice and facilitating the transition to Christian observance. This move was part of a broader effort to merge Christian practices with prevailing cultural norms, which is basically paganism.
Conclusion
The New Testament does not provide a direct command or indication to replace the Sabbath with Sunday. Gentile converts to Christianity maintained Sabbath observance, reflecting its ongoing significance. The emphasis on Sunday as a day of worship developed through tradition and theological reflection, diverging from the original Sabbath observance as established by Jesus and the apostles. The association of Sunday worship with pagan sun worship reflects historical developments where post-apostolic Christians adapted cultural practices to their new religious context with in the Roman Empire. While the Christian observance of Sunday ultimately became centered on the resurrection of Jesus, its timing and some associated practices were influenced by pre-existing Roman traditions dedicated to the sun as a god.
Im a Sabbath Keeper. I will say that the bible makes it very clear we shouldn't be changing it. "I have not come to abolish the law but fufil it". "If you love me, keep my commandments". The 4th commandment is very clear in saying 6 days you shal labor and do all your work but the 7th is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. With that reason I argue it isn't Sunday but Saturday. The Catholic church even agrees to this and admits they changed it to Sunday.
Friend, He did fulfill it. He is our Sabbath. We no longer rest from our physical labors under the law. works in the law. We now rest from our dead works. We rest in Jesus. There was a day. Now their is a person. This is the fulfillment of the law. He is our Sabbath rest and our statute forever.
@@ReformedFamilyWorship He clearly states to keep his commandments should be love him. The 10 commandments are the fundementals of Christianity and Judaism. Should we no longer need the Sabbath rest he would have said so. He did not. Having a day of rest away from worldly troubles is needed and valuable for us spiritually, mentally, and physically. I deny the implication that the Sabbath day is no longer valid or needed. God Bless.
From 613 to 2 commandments:
“And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.”
I John 3:23-24 NKJV
Out of curiosity what do you do with Acts 20:7?
@@intothekey Im not sure I understand how that verse contradicts my beliefs or the points Ive made?
Hi. Can you get the guy's info so I contact it him for a debate? Thank you.
This was not a debate. They both are trying to prove why you should keep Sunday instead of Saturday
You should get someone who disagrees to keep Sunday
I don’t see the point of this
Read Matthew 5:17-19. Do you guys believe in Jesus?
Amen brother.
Did Jesus accomplish all that was in the law or not?
@@MinifigsBricksMoreDenton If we are talking about the commandments, yes He kept all the commandments and He is the example for us.
If we are talking about all that is prophesied in the Law and the Prophets, than the answer is no, because the second coming (Is 66, Zechariah 14) in not fulfill yet.
@@cosmingcosma
“For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.”
Matthew 5:18 ESV
Verse 18 is speaking of the Law.
@@MinifigsBricksMoreDenton yes, did the heaven and earth pass away?
Can someone please provide biblical proof for separating the 613 laws into moral, civil, and ceremonial?
Do you think God is ok with man re-defining / re-interpreting His law?
While you search for a biblical passage to confirm your position. Here is one that clearly proves that it’s an all 613 or nothing proposition!
“For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.”
James 2:10 NKJV
Can we declare that all believers are dead to the law?
“For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.””
Galatians 2:19-21 NKJV
Different vocabulary words used to group them differently within the Bible itself, to begin with.
@@robbarker9878
But does God give us the green light to discard 604 laws and work with 10 minus the sabbath plus tithing to make it 10 again?
🤔🤔🤔
That should be self evident.
There is nothing moral about the Levitical ceremonial laws.
Only the ten commandments have the moral principles of God's character.
@@larrybedouin2921
You’re right, but you must admit that using logic to interpret what should be adhered to today is reducing the entire book of the law down to 9 commandments.
In your opinion, what should we do we do with the moral sabbath?
@@rjc9537
God will have obedience over sacrifice.
For Christ is the end [objective] of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
{Romans 10:4}
That the righteousness of the law *might be fulfilled in us* who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but *they that are after the Spirit* the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death; but *to be spiritually minded is life and peace*
Because *the carnal mind is enmity against God* for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
{Romans 8:4-7}
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then *with the mind I myself serve the law of God* but with the flesh the law of sin.
{Romans 7:25}
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or *of obedience* unto righteousness?
{Romans 6:16}
God Blessed the ONE day not the whole week just the ONE day Sabbath Saturday. For Jesus died on the cross Friday rested in the tomb on Sabbath Saturday rose the 3rd day first day of the week Sunday. Constantine changed the day to Sunday so therefore people God gave each and everyone freedom of choice to choose to obey His Law or be disobedient to it. As it is written Jesus says If you love me do my Commandments.(John 14:15) 1 John 2:4 Speaks volumes and you are called a liar if you say you know him and not keep his commandments. People we all have a choice to listen to God or not. Just remember the wages of sin is death as it is written in Roman 6:23 and sin is the transgression of Gods law 1 John 3 4-6 and the best of all is Revelation 14:12. Read your Bible and seek and ask for understanding so that the truth will be revealed to you all. God Bless people.
Heretical prayer: O Mother of Perpetual Help, thou art the dispenser of all the gifts which God grants to us miserable sinners; and for this end He has made thee so powerful, so rich, and so bountiful, in order that thou mayest help us in our misery. Thou art the advocate of the most wretched and abandoned sinners who have recourse to thee: come to my aid, for I recommend myself to thee.
In thy hands I place my eternal salvation, and to thee I entrust my soul. Count me among thy most devoted servants; take me under thy protection, and it is enough for me. For, if thou protect me, I fear nothing; not from my sins, because thou wilt obtain for me the pardon of them; nor from the devils, because thou art more powerful than all hell together; nor even from Jesus, my judge, because by one prayer from thee He will be appeased.
But one thing I fear: that in the hour of temptation I may through negligence fail to have recourse to thee and thus perish miserably. Obtain for me, therefore, the pardon of my sins, love for Jesus, final perseverance, and the grace ever to have recourse to thee, O Mother of Perpetual Help.
This is a legit Roman Catholic prayer, look up "O Mother of Perpetual Help" if you want to know if it’s legit.
This is super heretical. This doctrine of invoking departed saints doesn’t seem just like "hey it’s like praying to a friend.".
.
Ephesions 2:15-16 He abolished Jewish LAW with its comandmends
Gods Law does not change however the place where God wrote His Commandments had changed for when He gave the Ten Commandments on the tablet for Moses to give to the people they ALL said everything God has said we will do but what happened it did not take them long to build the golden calf so therefore God choose to change the place where to write His law as it is written in Jeremiah 31:33. When God writes His law on our minds and hearts if we say we love Him we automatically obey because Love is an action as it was Love that actioned a Sacrifice for the World.The Mark of the Beast is about Worship who will the people Worship because God is after our whole heart whole mind our whole soul. This man is speaking incorrectly.
For Christ is the end [objective] of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
{Romans 10:4}
That the righteousness of the law *might be fulfilled in us* who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but *they that are after the Spirit* the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death; but *to be spiritually minded is life and peace*
Because *the carnal mind is enmity against God* for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
{Romans 8:4-7}
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then *with the mind I myself serve the law of God* but with the flesh the law of sin.
{Romans 7:25}
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or *of obedience* unto righteousness?
{Romans 6:16}
Remember the sabbath day, to KEEP it holy.
@Scribeintheink
Your enmity remains.
The Sabbath can not be "kept" , Jesus Kept and Full filled all the Law. We do find our Rest in Jesus, and through the Spirit we are able to follow Jesus, and his Law is written in our hearts. I believe we can now, and in the future observe the Sabbath in it's true sense. Isaiah 66:22-23 For as the new heavens and the new earth Which I will make shall remain before me." Says The Lord....And it Shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another. ALL Flesh shall come to worship before Me. says the Lord. The Sabbath Will be observed in the NEW HEAVEN and NEW EARTH...
Sunday is NOT a sabbath day. Nor was the original law given through Moses's change. This error is based on a misguided theological position and misunderstanding of the ten commandments. NO exegesis to substantiate a change from the traditional seventh day sabbath to a first day sabbath! A poor use of good and necessary consequences by some Reformed-Puritan well-meaning godly men but nevertheless wrong interpretation of holy scripture. Very clever arguments, perhaps, but being clever does not make sound exegesis or biblical theology!
Keith 1 Rob 0
A helpful recommendation
Don't preach during a debate
Its very inappropriate
Yeah it bothers me when people do that too. It takes the wind out the debate.