It seems from the masterlock.com site, they know what makes a higher security padlock - see if you think it translates into their security level ratings! Please let me know in the comments :-)
I don't think so and I don't think that they have a clue either. I have looked your statement up and the masterlock.com site states in their description of model 7045KA: "a high security, rekeyable 5-pin cylinder with spool pins is virtually impossible to pick". VIRTUALLY. IMPOSSIBLE. Master Lock apparently thinks that having one of their "high security features" is enough so that the lock can be considered high security. It's ridiculous.
I don't know.. for me advertising a 5 spool pin core as "virtually impossible to pick" is just borderline fraudulent. Especially if it's such a pitiful version like Master Lock produces. They are not some Chinese trash company that won't ever be sued.
no-trick-pony_lockpicking they don't care if they get sued, They make more profit manufacturing and selling junk than they would loose in any court case. They are good if you catch them in a blatant lie,if you send a polite email voicing your concerns you generally end up with some free stuff.
I have the Master which received the majority of screen time. I bought two - one to use on a storage unit, and one to mess around with. I checked the bitting on the keys in-store, and actually found a couple that were pretty decent (and I actually lucked out on the binding order, as the first pin had a deep low cut and set first). 5 pins, and mine actually do have spools - two of them. 5 pins is the highest I've ever seen in a Master padlock. Boron shackle, dual ball bearing for anti-shimming... I peeled the laminate off one of them, and it was the standard Master stacked plates, and was actually stamped 'hardened' underneath - not sure why it wasn't also stamped on the laminate. I don't have the proper implements to assess hardness, so I'm taking their word for it. Pick resistance was actually decent as far as Master Lock goes. Actually, for a Master, it was very good. Almost as good as a middle of the road Schlage. I've always assumed Master Lock's security rating system to be based on physical destruction or a low-skill bypass attack. So, my assessments based on that... I would say it's fair. It's a physically tough lock. *If* it's shimmable, it's definitely not easy (I didn't have any luck, and destroyed 4 shims trying). I didn't try attacking the shackle destructively, but it seems like it would put up a reasonable struggle. Not vulnerable to the 'smack it on the side with a hammer' bypass (to which many other padlocks, Master included, do fall prey). I don't have a generally high opinion of Master, because of how easy they are to pick, but if they would just create a more paracentric, restrictive keyway for use with at least their higher rated locks, I think they would actually have a very good product. It's the ease of picking that really let's them down.
Don'z Lockz to be a little bit fair to them how many times have you known thieves to actually pick a lock. Dont get me wrong I think 99.5% of their products are shit but anyone who expects a £20 lock to be as good as a £150 lock is asking for trouble.
Thanks for the investigation. I have been puzzled by the M-locks for some time. I can see that the scale is for physical attack only.... the guts are soft and mushy... That was my perception of the scale. Shame that they cannot be built with better cores.
Well, that’s probably the crux of the problem here. If the scale has to be interpreted because of a lack of or conflicting information, it questions it’s worth :-)
Awesome video my friend nicely done I always thought the number rating system on the side was for how many seconds it takes you to get in them 😂😂😂I think the rating is just to show how tough they are on the outside not how easier they are to pick😊👍😊👍😎😎
A very cogent and well thought out video - thanks for putting this together. I am starting to think the marketing department simply rolls a d10 and has the number rolled printed on the packaging
In the US (Master Lock's home) no one (with any knowledge) uses their padlocks for anything else other than garden sheds. The lock bodies chasnge but the same inadequate cylinders remain the same.....pickable by a frog!
The uninformed buy Master Locks. Master Lock is the kind of company that innovates after litigation or when compelled to improve the locks. Home Depot sells Master Locks, they too think of them as a "great product", but also & more importantly, a HIGHLY PROFITABLE LINE, as I am sure you also know. Master Lock is so well placed because of marketing at the expense and exclusion of better quality products, NOT for quality and manufacturer integrity.
Very interesting!! I've also got an M15BDLF. Crazy that it gets a '10' rating with the all-standard pin core. I also noted that the 'brass' outer finish is yellow coloured zinc!!
The ratings in my mind are a work of fiction. The most pick resistant masterlock I own is the one I started practicing with and the pins are worn so much the key doesn't work anymore.
I think my experience with these locks makes me very inclined to agree with you. Shame there isn’t better information out there to determine what these scales actually do mean, if anything :-)
My general take is that for most applications, pick resistance is irrelevant. When I want to get past a lock, I use brute force or social engineering. It's faster, and generally simpler. I've been out of the penetration testing business for a while, but my experience is that the weakest point is generally NOT the lock. Many years ago I prepped a bank branch with some fraudulent paperwork, then simply waltzed in, essentially just asked a cashier for her login credentials and transferred a signature amount of money to a "trigger account" that would tell the banks security that I had done my part. When looking at e.g. home security I look at the same type of weakness: Why bother with the door if there's windowsk, or PVC window frames, or unsecured sliding doors? With motorcycles or cars: Why bother with locks when you can just hoist it onto a covered, shielded truck (to foil GPS and silence alarms) and drive off? An ounce of confidence gets you past a ton of security. People, especially employees, respect authority. So, as far as those security ratings go... I am convinced they're just arbitrary marketing BS. A selling point, nothing more. Think about the many, many packages advertising "pick proof" locks. Their engineers have to know that's bullshit. But they're not the ones designing the marketing materials, including webpages. That's done by graphics designers, marketing experts and so on. They may(!) ask engineers for some description, but for the most part they'll just cherry-pick what they think is good for marketing, re-wording it until it "sounds good" and discarding the inconvenient rest.
I Generally consider a Master lock 931 more secure than the level 10 padlock you have there. As the 931 has a Shrouded shackle, 4 Spool pins and is has a well made lock body. But the 931 only gets a 5 on the scale. The only reason for this that I can think of is Master wants to save the 8,9, and 10 ratings for the Magnum line, Even though they are less secure than a 5...
Great video buddy, I have to say that there rating system is NOT spot on when it comes to picking... simply because thieves at least here in the states do not pick locks. They just don't and if you asked one to pick this lock they would have a "virtually unpickable" experience. A picker will pick a lock well before drilling it "locksmiths" and croppers, hammers "thieves". And then the biggest difference in the 10 rated KASP, MTL, etc. And the Master is the price... that Kasp is $150 minimum if can be found here. And the master is $25 Moral of my story is... Get what you pay for.
I went to buy a lock and on seeing the numbers on the packaging I asked the salesman what they meant, and not one of them knew. Thanks for the video now I know and I will return to Home Depot and educate them.
Just to drive the point home, I'm curious what rating a steel body, double ball bearing, shrouded boron shackle, 7 pin with spools padlock would receive then. I mean, we can all make fun of _Master Lock_ for their (lack of) lock resistance, but we all know that the most common attack against padlocks is not that - it's cutting the shackle or otherwise destroying the lock. But this rating is just idiotic. Does anyone know what other, better padlocks made by them receive as a rating? I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that it's just the marketing department pulling a rating out of ... let's say thin air.
lol!! I knew what was coming but I had to wait till the end of the vid to comment. Everyone mocks MasterLock locks on Bosnian Bill's and the Lock Picking Lawyer's channel. Apparently, the only two MasterLock locks that are any good are their LOTO padlock and the lock on their bank deposit bag.
True. I picked up a Brady LOTO padlock locally on eBay recently. It was dirt cheap compared to prices in the US for the same lock. The vendor obviously didn't have a clue. Also got the name wrong and called it a Bradly. But he did mention the paracentric keyway.
nice picking, made some light work of what the manufacturer claims "High security.". (Funny how some compete for a share of the market by cutting cost in the "security" area) thanks for sharing
I think the rating of 10 for Master Lock is actually 10 out of 100 and not 10 out of 10 because it seems like anyone and everyone can pick any Master Lock within just a couple seconds and I actually had some pretty expensive items stolen because I had a Master Lock on my garage but after that I will never use a Master Lock again unless they actually start to make a good quality product unlike up to this point but the lock industry definitely needs to finally Step Up, do their jobs and start making their locks pick resistant if at all possible and much more durable also so that they're actually worth buying and can keep people's things secure because what we have right now is just completely inadequate worthless locks for the most part sadly.
Hi there, great video, what is your view on the "Master Lock M1177EURD Brass Heavy Duty Solid Padlock [Closed Shackle][Combination Lock] -Anti-Rust, Ultra Resistant and Waterproof" as apposed to the key entry?
I bought a level 9 Master Lock last week to see if I could pick it (I'm a total amateur). It's the second Master lock I've opened with a homemade pick, this one took me about 20 seconds.
Funny thing is when I first got the lock I picked it about ten times in a row no problem. I've just tried picking it again, and have spent about 20-30 minutes on it with no success. It still opens easily with the key, so I'm wondering what's changed.
These videos are priceless. They make the world aware that Master Lock Padlocks are basically lame, and need some serious upgrading. So sad that more people don’t “call their hand”. Maybe, or maybe not, that would cause them to improve the locks they make.
I think they may mean physical attacks because these locks are great training aids for learner lock pickers as they can be very easy to pick ML need to up their game as far as anti pick attacks on the locks they make.
I’ve got master lock padlocks and the only good so far is they’ve lasted a long time in bad weather so what lock is the best for cutting resistant,drill and picking?
It’s almost the impossible question, but the correct answer is all locks have their pros and cons and it’s best to ask a locksmith if you need a lock for a specific purpose. That said, the American military S&G closed shackle padlocks with a good Medeco core in are pretty fierce :-)
It’s almost the impossible question, but the correct answer is all locks have their pros and cons and it’s best to ask a locksmith if you need a lock for a specific purpose. That said, the American military S&G closed shackle padlocks with a good Medeco core in are pretty fierce :-)
Based on what you read and what you show in your video, I might have a little different take on this. Because we pick locks we think of locks in terms of pick resistance. But in the real world I see brute force attack as the way locks are usually overcome. In those terms this seems to possibly be a good lock. But I still don't understand why they don't use any security pins. That would also keep inexperienced pickers out and give us more of a challenge. Thanks for the vid.
For sure, I think of picking and absolutely, physical atttacks are more common. But 10 being marketed as High to a Maximum... I dunno, is i’d expect a balance of qualities like ML point out themselves and as exemplified by locks like that Kasp 19070X :-)
Great indeepth investigation work on this issue LN buddy :). It's interesting that they actually have standards, but do not apply them to their products...From physical resistance your big ML is not a 10 by their own definition, but still pretty good, but holy cow the pick resistance 😱🤯. And it is really not that hard to make it a lot more pick resistant. If that's the highest security they can offer...good night 🤪. Thanks a lot buddy for sharing :)
Thanks Foxxy and I appreciate that you understood completely the argument I was making. I wasn’t sure if I’d made my point clearly for people in this longer vid :-)
By all I have seen they need to hire a locksmith to test the security before rating them. One can only imagine if the lock has a 1 rating how easy it must be, can open with a toothpick lol
First of all, that was a fantastic explanation of their rating scale. Second, I just want to say it’s simply a typo on their part. They meant to put an 01, not a 10...... LOL 😂 or maybe they use that big carnival hammer game where you smack the red dot and see how high the thing goes on the scale.
I think the scale has something to do with the series of locks. The proseries and Excell/Magnum series ate in a different league in my opinion. As standard hardware.....ye I guess they are high security for basic hardware. But when we start talking high security, well pro series is a basic level of high security. Masterlock needs to be clearer though on what they mean and sell. This lock is not a ten....if it does not have a shrouded shackle. They contradict themselves if that is what they say.
I think some clarity would go a long way, but maybe the average consumer just doesn’t care. I guess I didn’t before I started to know about locks either, but maybe if I had been presented with better information I would have... :-)
If you look at LPL’s video on Masterlock’s street cuffs he explains that those cuffs have a warranty up to $3500 if property is lost through forceful methods. It does not cover lock manipulation. Taking that into consideration i believe as a company Master takes pride in how sturdy their lock bodies are but as far as the core is concerned they really don’t care and they know their cores are garbage. I believe master locks are made to keep out the common thief. That person who chooses brute force over skill. As far as keeping anyone with even the novice skill level out, that’s another story.
Great investigation work. I for one thought it was a straight scale of how they rated their locks. Looks to be more in depth than that, and surprise surprise different parts of a large (international)company not talking properly . Hopefully ML may finally talk to themselves and sort out the confusing information and standardise it. Thanks for making this video🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔😍😎😎👍👍🍺
I've been trying to pick an M115 for ages! I was actually trying while watching this! I have opened it.. But just can't do it repeatable or reliably... I think you took about 5 seconds! Feeling crap now :-(
tonkas don’t feel crap - I’ve just picked a LOT of these types of lock and now have a feel for them plus some locks are just harder than others even the same make - I recently had a ML3 that took me 10 min to pick! :-)
I did it! I gave it another half an hour tonight. I couldn't spp it but did manage to rake it, so I'm happy now :-D Still feels a bit flukey, I'll keep practicing
I think masterlock could be more interested in selling locks then actual security. It's true that the shackles are the first line of attack by a criminal, and they address this. In my opinion, no lock should be rated as 10, simply because someone will have rge talent and knowledge of how to pick it.
I always view these scales as something completely arbitrary. Just a general guide as to how the manufacturers think their product falls under. They can put anything on their package, and get away with it. I knew when I picked my first level 10 master lock, it wasn't a 10 as far as picking is concerned. They need to have an industry standard that all lock manufacturers agree on, and be held liable for false advertising. They do make some good locks, like their Pro Series, but I can't think of any Master Lock I would rate as a 10.
The CEN Rating is a good start I feel. I have a really nice master pro (rated 10 by ML), but compared to all the locks in my collection, is probably about midway in difficulty :-)
My compliments on a great analysis and for not bursting into laughter during the whole video...I lasted until you picked the Excell and just cracked up completely for the rest of the show. 👍😂 For me their scale is nothing more than PR hype based on fantasy science...IMHO!
that lock came with 4 keys, you have to give em points for that. i have the master lock 911 that has a good core and undersized shackle. also my 40mm aluminium master lock is rather decent for a 4pin and easily compromised by everything. come to think of it i should pick up a few master locks and make use of my rakes.
i started on a master lock #3, insert anything in to the keyhole and it pops open. i thought i was a natural picker and would be opening american locks and stuff like that in a months time. then i got my abus 55/40 and it was impossible for me, i started to learn how to pick and learned words like key bitting.
it was mind boggling for me, from going from master locks that opened from anything to my abus that was impossible until i learned how to actually pick, then one day my cheap Chinese picks broke and i ordered my Canadian sparrows picks, then i had to pick again and it was a different world. i had to learn how to pick my collection of 4pin locks, and all of a sudden i was able to pick a few of the 5 pins like the american 911, the sparrows didn't bend out of shape from my abus 72/40 that i still can't get that. its all part of the jouney and i really enjoy it. i just started trying to pick that 55/40 upside down and its a mind blowing thing, i feel like a total noob and i'm struggling to grasp the concept of picking. i have to build a wooden thing with a slide bolt of something. whats the point of picking when you can't pick anything in the field. mad props to William Mancel for that, i didnt know his channel existed till a few days ago. speaking of.... you rock for all those cool pins that sparrows stole/worship followed that you made. its been a realy cool 3-4 months for me. im shitfaced but i wanna say, all you guys are awesome.
Even in the US these are regarded as trash. Masterlock is only in business because most people have no idea what a relatively secure lock is. I'm surprised you didn't just rake them open, you can get them open much faster that way. It's laughable.
Great investigation buddy, I can't understand why they just put the cores they use in the plastic safety lockout padlocks in the rest of their padlocks. They are not the best cores in the world at all but they are far far away from the piece of shit they put on these locks. Thanks for showing buddy ;o))
I have to ask, were you looking at it in what could be considered an intimidating manner, because as BosnainBill has demonstrated Master lock cannot hold up to intimidation.
It actually really angers me to see this sort of rating system, because I've fallen for it myself, from before I knew anything about locks. I'm still a million miles away from being an expert but I now know enough to be dangerous and not to take such marketing hyperbole at face value. I believe the general consumer buys a lock because they are concerned about theft and they want to lean on the expertise of companies producing solutions to mitigate those threats. I was taken in and believed the rating, because why would a company ever lie to the consumer? I am fine with a general rating of locks being suitable for low, medium or high security applications because those are words. A numerical scale is a graphic and first instinct is that higher is better. This results in the consumer being deceived - and I use that word deliberately - that their property is secure when it is not. If ML lose the numerical scale and lose the garbage about spools being almost impossible to pick, I would feel far happier. They can say such pins make picking harder, that they add delay, anything like that. But if someone can watch half a dozen YT videos then get into a lock with a simple attack, then the countermeasure has failed and the advertising is false.
Let's face it, Master Lock are all crap. Even as a total noob lock picker, I was able to open most of the half dozen I have in less than 30 seconds... The "tough" one I've got I can still reliably open in less than a minute. Most can simply be raked using whatever tool you care to try.
Master Lock is utter garbage. They use the same cores in their higher level products, excluding Professional models. They build decent lock bodies but the innards are garbage. They can be fun practice locks though.
Dude, there is always someone who will hit dislike on anything. I could make a vid of me rescuing puppies and there will be someone who hates dogs. Such is life my friend :-)
They all have soft nougat centers, so they all have a low pick resistance. But, no matter, their products are all precisely rated to sell to the uninformed. If any government ever requires truth in advertising, Master will start putting 6 pin LOTO cores in their #3 locks (I did, just for fun). Truth be told, most crooks don't pick locks... They break stuff. None of those locks will resist a pair of 24" bars, or pipe wrenches. Or, a ramset?
Sure, I know physical resistance is more important, that Kasp I think could take a beating for example, but I believe that security is a combination of factors, most of which ML recognised already in their own list :-)
Masterlock is a lawsuit waiting to happen. All of thier locks are crap (except the loto ones but a hammer breaks those off easy) and can be picked by a beginner. Its about as close to a poster child for false advertising as you can get.
Master Locks Security rating system seems mostly based on there opinion, and like jmmurdy mentioned they are basing it off of brute force attacks as well as most people inability to pick locks. There seems to also be a healthy does of marketing there also. do I think Master Lock does a great padlock, yes for there intended purpose. They an in expensive mass produced lock that will keep and honest person honest.
Bosnianbill and lpl always tell you and show you masterlock is not a security lock to be used now master has a plastic body lock with a different key way which is used on mechanical lock out such as on electric panel boxes bb and lpl tell you it's a totally different animal
Locks are just to keep people honest. Most thieves aren't picking locks they'll just cut them. The benefit of cordless power tools now days. Really to me if I'm buying a lock I'm more concerned with destructive durability not pick resistance. I know of a few locks that are harder to pick than any master lock you buy at any hardware big box store, yet it's easy to cut them with a grinder or bolt cutter. Some of those boron carbide shackles can't even be cut with a hacksaw or bandsaw yet a few of the abus ones that come to mind are really easy to cut. Master just gets a bad rep to any of us that pick because a good amount of them are a pathetic joke of pick resistance. And their marketing is bullshit to anyone that knows a bit about locks. But same time perfect for consumers. Not true but hey look at people's sheds or security lockers, gym lockers etc I'm sure you'll see more master locks than any other brand. At least locally here that's all you'll see. Because that's what's sold at most hardware stores. You want abus, multilock, or kasp you have to go to a locksmith or some sort of security distributor/store. In North America when your average home owner needs a lock they're going to home Depot, Lowe's, Walmart or some other big box store.
I think their scale is to bolster egos of noob pickers like me 😉 I cannot pick an American 1100 but give me a Master #10 security level .... Hope that their acquisition of American doesn’t doom the American line into obscurity 🤞🏻
The whole purpose of a lock is to keep things secure soooo what good is a lock or a lock rating if anything that fits into the keyway is a potential key? That's not secure that's a lie and a ripoff Master Lock is screaming at the top of their lungs "All of our customers are STUPID" by making locks that easy to open. I wonder if they actually test these locks if they do who is testing them? How TF are they still in business, I guess their customers really are just plain stupid like hitting yourself in the face with a shovel to kill a mosquito on your nose stupid, Master Locks are an invitation, a billboard in fact that says "Take Me" or "This Is The Easiest Way In"
Well it didn't offer much pick resistance for you. Maybe the rating is just a self rating by them and not an official one. Is picking a real world threat? Have thieving scum got lock picking skills. It looks like they might even rake open. Looks like it might put up some resistance to physical attack
I guess I’d like more explicit information about what exactly 10/10 means and gets you as a consumer. I think that’s pretty fair. As for what skills thieves have, I’m affraid I don’t know, but if that wasn’t an issue, then why not just have 3 or 4 pins and save costs? :-)
![[370] Binding Order Explained Simply | Learn Lock Picking!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dkps2LIZc5g/mqdefault.jpg)
It seems from the masterlock.com site, they know what makes a higher security padlock - see if you think it translates into their security level ratings! Please let me know in the comments :-)
I don't think so and I don't think that they have a clue either. I have looked your statement up and the masterlock.com site states in their description of model 7045KA: "a high security, rekeyable 5-pin cylinder with spool pins is virtually impossible to pick". VIRTUALLY. IMPOSSIBLE.
Master Lock apparently thinks that having one of their "high security features" is enough so that the lock can be considered high security. It's ridiculous.
no-trick-pony_lockpicking thanks for taking the time to do some research too. I wish ,ore people questioned things :-)
I don't know.. for me advertising a 5 spool pin core as "virtually impossible to pick" is just borderline fraudulent. Especially if it's such a pitiful version like Master Lock produces. They are not some Chinese trash company that won't ever be sued.
no-trick-pony_lockpicking they don't care if they get sued, They make more profit manufacturing and selling junk than they would loose in any court case.
They are good if you catch them in a blatant lie,if you send a polite email voicing your concerns you generally end up with some free stuff.
Master lock rating =seconds of a kid looks at a padlock without opening under his eyes.
I have the Master which received the majority of screen time. I bought two - one to use on a storage unit, and one to mess around with.
I checked the bitting on the keys in-store, and actually found a couple that were pretty decent (and I actually lucked out on the binding order, as the first pin had a deep low cut and set first). 5 pins, and mine actually do have spools - two of them. 5 pins is the highest I've ever seen in a Master padlock. Boron shackle, dual ball bearing for anti-shimming... I peeled the laminate off one of them, and it was the standard Master stacked plates, and was actually stamped 'hardened' underneath - not sure why it wasn't also stamped on the laminate. I don't have the proper implements to assess hardness, so I'm taking their word for it. Pick resistance was actually decent as far as Master Lock goes. Actually, for a Master, it was very good. Almost as good as a middle of the road Schlage.
I've always assumed Master Lock's security rating system to be based on physical destruction or a low-skill bypass attack. So, my assessments based on that... I would say it's fair. It's a physically tough lock. *If* it's shimmable, it's definitely not easy (I didn't have any luck, and destroyed 4 shims trying). I didn't try attacking the shackle destructively, but it seems like it would put up a reasonable struggle. Not vulnerable to the 'smack it on the side with a hammer' bypass (to which many other padlocks, Master included, do fall prey).
I don't have a generally high opinion of Master, because of how easy they are to pick, but if they would just create a more paracentric, restrictive keyway for use with at least their higher rated locks, I think they would actually have a very good product. It's the ease of picking that really let's them down.
Not a single Master padlock on SSFs list of insurance approved padlocks
Their rating system is bollocks! They are all level 1. None take into account pick resistance!🤔✌
1? You mean *ZERO!*
Say how you feel hehe :-)
Some do have spool pins which are “virtually impossible to pick”
Don'z Lockz to be a little bit fair to them how many times have you known thieves to actually pick a lock.
Dont get me wrong I think 99.5% of their products are shit but anyone who expects a £20 lock to be as good as a £150 lock is asking for trouble.
some have spools, and the spools they put in are quite long
You picked that first lock so easily, I didn't even think you started picking yet. Looked like you were just trying to count the pins.
Master know how to make ‘em :-)
Thanks for the investigation. I have been puzzled by the M-locks for some time. I can see that the scale is for physical attack only.... the guts are soft and mushy... That was my perception of the scale. Shame that they cannot be built with better cores.
Well, that’s probably the crux of the problem here. If the scale has to be interpreted because of a lack of or conflicting information, it questions it’s worth :-)
It's not the product you sell, it's the story you tell...
True indeed :-
Awesome video my friend nicely done I always thought the number rating system on the side was for how many seconds it takes you to get in them 😂😂😂I think the rating is just to show how tough they are on the outside not how easier they are to pick😊👍😊👍😎😎
Actually, that sounds like a challenge, try to pick a lock of each Rating in exactly that number of seconds :-)
Leon, is that number not just how much the lock hurts when you open it unexpectedly quickly and it drops onto your foot? 😂
😂
Bro... Ur master lock videos make me feel all warm and tingly Inside....
Lol, I’m glad you like :-)
A very cogent and well thought out video - thanks for putting this together. I am starting to think the marketing department simply rolls a d10 and has the number rolled printed on the packaging
I hope no one buys them a D20... :-)
In the US (Master Lock's home) no one (with any knowledge) uses their padlocks for anything else other than garden sheds. The lock bodies chasnge but the same inadequate cylinders remain the same.....pickable by a frog!
Now THAT is a video I’d pay to see :-)
The uninformed buy Master Locks. Master Lock is the kind of company that innovates after litigation or when compelled to improve the locks. Home Depot sells Master Locks, they too think of them as a "great product", but also & more importantly, a HIGHLY PROFITABLE LINE, as I am sure you also know. Master Lock is so well placed because of marketing at the expense and exclusion of better quality products, NOT for quality and manufacturer integrity.
Very interesting!! I've also got an M15BDLF. Crazy that it gets a '10' rating with the all-standard pin core. I also noted that the 'brass' outer finish is yellow coloured zinc!!
Yeah, 10 is just... well 😆
The ratings in my mind are a work of fiction. The most pick resistant masterlock I own is the one I started practicing with and the pins are worn so much the key doesn't work anymore.
Wow! That’s a lot of picking :-)
@@LockNoob for a long time it was the only lock I had.
Great video. I believe that the percentage on which pick resistance goes into the rating is very low.
I think my experience with these locks makes me very inclined to agree with you. Shame there isn’t better information out there to determine what these scales actually do mean, if anything :-)
**Displays a supposedly strong and professional padlock**
"Let's go pick it."
Master Lock level 10 - resistant to people farting in the next room. Pretty much anything else will open it.
Might be quite useful in my household then 🤣🤣
My general take is that for most applications, pick resistance is irrelevant. When I want to get past a lock, I use brute force or social engineering. It's faster, and generally simpler. I've been out of the penetration testing business for a while, but my experience is that the weakest point is generally NOT the lock.
Many years ago I prepped a bank branch with some fraudulent paperwork, then simply waltzed in, essentially just asked a cashier for her login credentials and transferred a signature amount of money to a "trigger account" that would tell the banks security that I had done my part. When looking at e.g. home security I look at the same type of weakness: Why bother with the door if there's windowsk, or PVC window frames, or unsecured sliding doors? With motorcycles or cars: Why bother with locks when you can just hoist it onto a covered, shielded truck (to foil GPS and silence alarms) and drive off? An ounce of confidence gets you past a ton of security. People, especially employees, respect authority.
So, as far as those security ratings go... I am convinced they're just arbitrary marketing BS. A selling point, nothing more. Think about the many, many packages advertising "pick proof" locks. Their engineers have to know that's bullshit. But they're not the ones designing the marketing materials, including webpages. That's done by graphics designers, marketing experts and so on. They may(!) ask engineers for some description, but for the most part they'll just cherry-pick what they think is good for marketing, re-wording it until it "sounds good" and discarding the inconvenient rest.
Thanks for the interesting and detailed reply :-)
I Generally consider a Master lock 931 more secure than the level 10 padlock you have there.
As the 931 has a Shrouded shackle, 4 Spool pins and is has a well made lock body.
But the 931 only gets a 5 on the scale.
The only reason for this that I can think of is Master wants to save the 8,9, and 10 ratings for the Magnum line,
Even though they are less secure than a 5...
I really like the 931 too :-) some of the pro series locks get a 10 too :-)
Great video buddy,
I have to say that there rating system is NOT spot on when it comes to picking... simply because thieves at least here in the states do not pick locks. They just don't and if you asked one to pick this lock they would have a "virtually unpickable" experience. A picker will pick a lock well before drilling it "locksmiths" and croppers, hammers "thieves".
And then the biggest difference in the 10 rated KASP, MTL, etc. And the Master is the price... that Kasp is $150 minimum if can be found here. And the master is $25
Moral of my story is...
Get what you pay for.
Yup, you sure do and there is no such thing as a bargain :-)
Lock Noob
Absolutely!!! Great point. Lol
It seems to be a theme with Master Lock. They make great high-durability, strong locks and put a shitty easy to pick no security pins core in them.
Sad though, they could do a great lock :-)
I only know three different mechanical locks which are practically impossible to pick; Abus Plus, Bowley and Abloy Protec
Yup, pretty much the Tokoz Pro too :-)
Lol security level 10 Master Lock 😂😂😂😂
Should be classed as a level 10/100
Master lock must make these for our enjoyment lol
Well, I suppose I do enjoy picking them :-)
I went to buy a lock and on seeing the numbers on the packaging I asked the salesman what they meant, and not one of them knew. Thanks for the video now I know and I will return to Home Depot and educate them.
It's amazing that it took you longer to pick the No. 3
That poor number 3 has been picked and picked and demo picked for almost 2 years and it’s starting to affect the lock, poor thing :-)
Just to drive the point home, I'm curious what rating a steel body, double ball bearing, shrouded boron shackle, 7 pin with spools padlock would receive then.
I mean, we can all make fun of _Master Lock_ for their (lack of) lock resistance, but we all know that the most common attack against padlocks is not that - it's cutting the shackle or otherwise destroying the lock.
But this rating is just idiotic. Does anyone know what other, better padlocks made by them receive as a rating?
I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that it's just the marketing department pulling a rating out of ... let's say thin air.
I would really like to know :-)
lol!! I knew what was coming but I had to wait till the end of the vid to comment. Everyone mocks MasterLock locks on Bosnian Bill's and the Lock Picking Lawyer's channel. Apparently, the only two MasterLock locks that are any good are their LOTO padlock and the lock on their bank deposit bag.
Those loto cores can be tough picks m-)
True. I picked up a Brady LOTO padlock locally on eBay recently. It was dirt cheap compared to prices in the US for the same lock. The vendor obviously didn't have a clue. Also got the name wrong and called it a Bradly. But he did mention the paracentric keyway.
Great video buddy... And very well explained and said regarding the security of locks. The Baron in the shackles is used also in tank armour.
Tank armour? Interesting to know. It’s probably better off there tbh :-)
nice picking, made some light work of what the manufacturer claims "High security.". (Funny how some compete for a share of the market by cutting cost in the "security" area) thanks for sharing
Yeah, it’s not the kind of hight Security I’d be looking for :-)
I think the rating of 10 for Master Lock is actually 10 out of 100 and not 10 out of 10 because it seems like anyone and everyone can pick any Master Lock within just a couple seconds and I actually had some pretty expensive items stolen because I had a Master Lock on my garage but after that I will never use a Master Lock again unless they actually start to make a good quality product unlike up to this point but the lock industry definitely needs to finally Step Up, do their jobs and start making their locks pick resistant if at all possible and much more durable also so that they're actually worth buying and can keep people's things secure because what we have right now is just completely inadequate worthless locks for the most part sadly.
lol you could be right
Hi there, great video, what is your view on the "Master Lock M1177EURD Brass Heavy Duty Solid Padlock [Closed Shackle][Combination Lock] -Anti-Rust, Ultra Resistant and Waterproof" as apposed to the key entry?
As with all master locks, in the right application they can be very good. Have a chat to your local locksmith about your security needs
I bought a level 9 Master Lock last week to see if I could pick it (I'm a total amateur). It's the second Master lock I've opened with a homemade pick, this one took me about 20 seconds.
Yup, fun though :-)
Funny thing is when I first got the lock I picked it about ten times in a row no problem. I've just tried picking it again, and have spent about 20-30 minutes on it with no success. It still opens easily with the key, so I'm wondering what's changed.
This happens all the time. Leave the lock for a day or two, come back to it and I’ll bet it just falls open :-)
These videos are priceless. They make the world aware that Master Lock Padlocks are basically lame, and need some serious upgrading. So sad that more people don’t “call their hand”. Maybe, or maybe not, that would cause them to improve the locks they make.
I think they may mean physical attacks because these locks are great training aids for learner lock pickers as they can be very easy to pick ML need to up their game as far as anti pick attacks on the locks they make.
They do make great training aids :-)
I’ve got master lock padlocks and the only good so far is they’ve lasted a long time in bad weather so what lock is the best for cutting resistant,drill and picking?
It’s almost the impossible question, but the correct answer is all locks have their pros and cons and it’s best to ask a locksmith if you need a lock for a specific purpose. That said, the American military S&G closed shackle padlocks with a good Medeco core in are pretty fierce :-)
It’s almost the impossible question, but the correct answer is all locks have their pros and cons and it’s best to ask a locksmith if you need a lock for a specific purpose. That said, the American military S&G closed shackle padlocks with a good Medeco core in are pretty fierce :-)
I bet if you were to open that security level 10 lock it would have a 6 pin core but only pined for 5. It seems to be something ML / American does.
Yes, that’s very possible :-)
The highest rating for MasterLock is not 10, it's 100, so you just haven't found the one. LOL!
Very nice video, Sir! Thank you! :-)
Thanks :-)
Based on what you read and what you show in your video, I might have a little different take on this. Because we pick locks we think of locks in terms of pick resistance. But in the real world I see brute force attack as the way locks are usually overcome. In those terms this seems to possibly be a good lock. But I still don't understand why they don't use any security pins. That would also keep inexperienced pickers out and give us more of a challenge. Thanks for the vid.
For sure, I think of picking and absolutely, physical atttacks are more common. But 10 being marketed as High to a Maximum... I dunno, is i’d expect a balance of qualities like ML point out themselves and as exemplified by locks like that Kasp 19070X :-)
The "security" rating is provided by the graphics and sales department...Master has a couple of good products but they are certainly the exception.
Yeah, I do like some of their stuff :-)
Great indeepth investigation work on this issue LN buddy :). It's interesting that they actually have standards, but do not apply them to their products...From physical resistance your big ML is not a 10 by their own definition, but still pretty good, but holy cow the pick resistance 😱🤯. And it is really not that hard to make it a lot more pick resistant. If that's the highest security they can offer...good night 🤪. Thanks a lot buddy for sharing :)
Thanks Foxxy and I appreciate that you understood completely the argument I was making. I wasn’t sure if I’d made my point clearly for people in this longer vid :-)
By all I have seen they need to hire a locksmith to test the security before rating them. One can only imagine if the lock has a 1 rating how easy it must be, can open with a toothpick lol
Lol :-)
I suspect the rating system is mostly based on how much money the marketing department would like to get you to spend on the lock.
First of all, that was a fantastic explanation of their rating scale. Second, I just want to say it’s simply a typo on their part. They meant to put an 01, not a 10...... LOL 😂 or maybe they use that big carnival hammer game where you smack the red dot and see how high the thing goes on the scale.
Lol :-)
I think the scale has something to do with the series of locks. The proseries and Excell/Magnum series ate in a different league in my opinion. As standard hardware.....ye I guess they are high security for basic hardware. But when we start talking high security, well pro series is a basic level of high security. Masterlock needs to be clearer though on what they mean and sell. This lock is not a ten....if it does not have a shrouded shackle. They contradict themselves if that is what they say.
I think some clarity would go a long way, but maybe the average consumer just doesn’t care. I guess I didn’t before I started to know about locks either, but maybe if I had been presented with better information I would have... :-)
That one at the start rated 5 looks more secure than the 10
Well, it’s more awkward to tension and might even have spools in :-)
Master locks rating =seconds you look at the lock without opening under your eyes.
Nice breakdown of the misery of master locks : )
Lol :-)
If you look at LPL’s video on Masterlock’s street cuffs he explains that those cuffs have a warranty up to $3500 if property is lost through forceful methods. It does not cover lock manipulation. Taking that into consideration i believe as a company Master takes pride in how sturdy their lock bodies are but as far as the core is concerned they really don’t care and they know their cores are garbage. I believe master locks are made to keep out the common thief. That person who chooses brute force over skill. As far as keeping anyone with even the novice skill level out, that’s another story.
I wish they used tougher cores :-)
Lock Noob me too. It would make it a little more fun ti pick. 😆
Master lock uses the same key$s
Since about the 1930's
I have been following this all
The back to 1958.
Yup
Great investigation work.
I for one thought it was a straight scale of how they rated their locks.
Looks to be more in depth than that, and surprise surprise different parts of a large (international)company not talking properly .
Hopefully ML may finally talk to themselves and sort out the confusing information and standardise it.
Thanks for making this video🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔😍😎😎👍👍🍺
Thanks for watching Pb and for the comment :-)
Maybe what they don't say is that the rating system they use goes up to 100 and they only show 1-10 ;-)
Aaaaaah, maybe that’s it ;-)
I've been trying to pick an M115 for ages! I was actually trying while watching this! I have opened it.. But just can't do it repeatable or reliably... I think you took about 5 seconds! Feeling crap now :-(
tonkas don’t feel crap - I’ve just picked a LOT of these types of lock and now have a feel for them plus some locks are just harder than others even the same make - I recently had a ML3 that took me 10 min to pick! :-)
I did it! I gave it another half an hour tonight. I couldn't spp it but did manage to rake it, so I'm happy now :-D Still feels a bit flukey, I'll keep practicing
Most other lock companies start their security rating at master locks 10 security rating.
Lol, ikr? 😃😆
I think masterlock could be more interested in selling locks then actual security. It's true that the shackles are the first line of attack by a criminal, and they address this. In my opinion, no lock should be rated as 10, simply because someone will have rge talent and knowledge of how to pick it.
Agreed
What size pick are you using in this video? Thank you
Peterson Gem in 0.018 :-)
I've had seriously hard time picking my master lock 🔐 M1 ! Must be a one off or have they changed design in newer versions?
I don’t think they’ve changed the design, but I too have had problems with a couple of MLs on occasion - I think it’s manufacturing variance :-)
Try a deeper hook with top of the key way tension. Could just be a high cut pin behind a low cut causing you to over set the lower pin.
I always view these scales as something completely arbitrary. Just a general guide as to how the manufacturers think their product falls under. They can put anything on their package, and get away with it. I knew when I picked my first level 10 master lock, it wasn't a 10 as far as picking is concerned. They need to have an industry standard that all lock manufacturers agree on, and be held liable for false advertising. They do make some good locks, like their Pro Series, but I can't think of any Master Lock I would rate as a 10.
The CEN Rating is a good start I feel. I have a really nice master pro (rated 10 by ML), but compared to all the locks in my collection, is probably about midway in difficulty :-)
Their rating system is literally a “JOKE”.
I think master makes quite good locks, they're tough to break open. I just think they'd be better if they raided American's pin bucket
I fully agree :-)
My compliments on a great analysis and for not bursting into laughter during the whole video...I lasted until you picked the Excell and just cracked up completely for the rest of the show. 👍😂
For me their scale is nothing more than PR hype based on fantasy science...IMHO!
Lol, thanks for watching :-)
New to lock picking and I could open them not as fast a noob but still could do it
Cool!
that lock came with 4 keys, you have to give em points for that. i have the master lock 911 that has a good core and undersized shackle. also my 40mm aluminium master lock is rather decent for a 4pin and easily compromised by everything. come to think of it i should pick up a few master locks and make use of my rakes.
I actually still like picking these locks, despite their ease - I think all pickers should start learning on MLs :-)
i started on a master lock #3, insert anything in to the keyhole and it pops open. i thought i was a natural picker and would be opening american locks and stuff like that in a months time. then i got my abus 55/40 and it was impossible for me, i started to learn how to pick and learned words like key bitting.
Ah yes, well Abus are mostly a different league :-)
it was mind boggling for me, from going from master locks that opened from anything to my abus that was impossible until i learned how to actually pick, then one day my cheap Chinese picks broke and i ordered my Canadian sparrows picks, then i had to pick again and it was a different world. i had to learn how to pick my collection of 4pin locks, and all of a sudden i was able to pick a few of the 5 pins like the american 911, the sparrows didn't bend out of shape from my abus 72/40 that i still can't get that. its all part of the jouney and i really enjoy it. i just started trying to pick that 55/40 upside down and its a mind blowing thing, i feel like a total noob and i'm struggling to grasp the concept of picking. i have to build a wooden thing with a slide bolt of something. whats the point of picking when you can't pick anything in the field. mad props to William Mancel for that, i didnt know his channel existed till a few days ago. speaking of.... you rock for all those cool pins that sparrows stole/worship followed that you made. its been a realy cool 3-4 months for me. im shitfaced but i wanna say, all you guys are awesome.
Lol, thanks dude :-)
Even in the US these are regarded as trash. Masterlock is only in business because most people have no idea what a relatively secure lock is. I'm surprised you didn't just rake them open, you can get them open much faster that way. It's laughable.
Raking just isn’t as much fun :-)
Great investigation buddy, I can't understand why they just put the cores they use in the plastic safety lockout padlocks in the rest of their padlocks. They are not the best cores in the world at all but they are far far away from the piece of shit they put on these locks.
Thanks for showing buddy ;o))
And thanks for watching Tallan. ML own American Lock so I say stick some AL cores in these Excel/Magnum locks :-)
Tallan Pick the reason they don't is obvious , it's $.
I bet they don't use any of these on their own factories
It would be interesting to know what they do use :-)
LOL You are right, surely they don´t use their own padlocks ;o)))
I have to ask, were you looking at it in what could be considered an intimidating manner, because as BosnainBill has demonstrated Master lock cannot hold up to intimidation.
A mildly disgruntled manner I’d say ;-)
It actually really angers me to see this sort of rating system, because I've fallen for it myself, from before I knew anything about locks. I'm still a million miles away from being an expert but I now know enough to be dangerous and not to take such marketing hyperbole at face value. I believe the general consumer buys a lock because they are concerned about theft and they want to lean on the expertise of companies producing solutions to mitigate those threats. I was taken in and believed the rating, because why would a company ever lie to the consumer? I am fine with a general rating of locks being suitable for low, medium or high security applications because those are words. A numerical scale is a graphic and first instinct is that higher is better. This results in the consumer being deceived - and I use that word deliberately - that their property is secure when it is not.
If ML lose the numerical scale and lose the garbage about spools being almost impossible to pick, I would feel far happier. They can say such pins make picking harder, that they add delay, anything like that. But if someone can watch half a dozen YT videos then get into a lock with a simple attack, then the countermeasure has failed and the advertising is false.
It is a core problem
Needs to be fixed
👍
Let's face it, Master Lock are all crap. Even as a total noob lock picker, I was able to open most of the half dozen I have in less than 30 seconds... The "tough" one I've got I can still reliably open in less than a minute. Most can simply be raked using whatever tool you care to try.
They do like a raking, don’t they :-)
If I needed a safe padlock for industrial level, I would fit a cliq core in a Ruko 4-5 padlock.
The college by me chains their picnic benches up with Ruko 3 padlocks :-)
After viewing this video, you'd be safe reusing the plastic strap used to affix the lock to the packaging.
Master Lock = No GOOD!
Lol :-)
Master Lock is utter garbage. They use the same cores in their higher level products, excluding Professional models. They build decent lock bodies but the innards are garbage.
They can be fun practice locks though.
I do rate some of their locks for certain environment. I just don’t get how they come up with the ratings :-)
Obviously we all now master lock is trash but I'd like to think of the Rating as "Resistance to Brute Force" rating
Yes, that would make sense
Who Is disliking these vids? Almost all I notice have 1 dislike not me love these vids
Dude, there is always someone who will hit dislike on anything. I could make a vid of me rescuing puppies and there will be someone who hates dogs. Such is life my friend :-)
They all have soft nougat centers, so they all have a low pick resistance. But, no matter, their products are all precisely rated to sell to the uninformed. If any government ever requires truth in advertising, Master will start putting 6 pin LOTO cores in their #3 locks (I did, just for fun).
Truth be told, most crooks don't pick locks... They break stuff. None of those locks will resist a pair of 24" bars, or pipe wrenches. Or, a ramset?
Sure, I know physical resistance is more important, that Kasp I think could take a beating for example, but I believe that security is a combination of factors, most of which ML recognised already in their own list :-)
Fantastic video very informative 👍🔐
Thank you :-)
Thanks Lock Noob
Thanks :-)
if you want to be fair, you could say they overrated their locks. if you want to be realistic you will say their locks are just junk ;-)
Thanks for watching :-)
Masterlock is a lawsuit waiting to happen. All of thier locks are crap (except the loto ones but a hammer breaks those off easy) and can be picked by a beginner. Its about as close to a poster child for false advertising as you can get.
I like some of the pro series and the dimple Padlock they sell in Europe :-)
Master Locks Security rating system seems mostly based on there opinion, and like jmmurdy mentioned they are basing it off of brute force attacks as well as most people inability to pick locks. There seems to also be a healthy does of marketing there also. do I think Master Lock does a great padlock, yes for there intended purpose. They an in expensive mass produced lock that will keep and honest person honest.
Thanks for watching and commenting :-)
Great work ;) Bravo!
Thanks :-)
Packaging is always pure marketing wank. It means nothing. Sadly.
I still feel it must mean something... there must some scale they use to decide the Rating. Possibly. Maybe... :-)
Lock Noob if i was to hazard a guess, it's based on cost analysis more than actual security.
Bosnianbill and lpl always tell you and show you masterlock is not a security lock to be used now master has a plastic body lock with a different key way which is used on mechanical lock out such as on electric panel boxes bb and lpl tell you it's a totally different animal
Yes, the 410 is a tough pick for sure... in a plastic body. I swear they are trolling us... :-)
Locks are just to keep people honest.
Most thieves aren't picking locks they'll just cut them. The benefit of cordless power tools now days.
Really to me if I'm buying a lock I'm more concerned with destructive durability not pick resistance.
I know of a few locks that are harder to pick than any master lock you buy at any hardware big box store, yet it's easy to cut them with a grinder or bolt cutter. Some of those boron carbide shackles can't even be cut with a hacksaw or bandsaw yet a few of the abus ones that come to mind are really easy to cut.
Master just gets a bad rep to any of us that pick because a good amount of them are a pathetic joke of pick resistance. And their marketing is bullshit to anyone that knows a bit about locks. But same time perfect for consumers. Not true but hey look at people's sheds or security lockers, gym lockers etc I'm sure you'll see more master locks than any other brand. At least locally here that's all you'll see. Because that's what's sold at most hardware stores. You want abus, multilock, or kasp you have to go to a locksmith or some sort of security distributor/store.
In North America when your average home owner needs a lock they're going to home Depot, Lowe's, Walmart or some other big box store.
Awesome video
thank you good to now..
No problem :-)
Great video buddy thanks rating system is a joke
Thanks for watching :-)
I think their scale is to bolster egos of noob pickers like me 😉
I cannot pick an American 1100 but give me a Master #10 security level ....
Hope that their acquisition of American doesn’t doom the American line into obscurity 🤞🏻
I hope so too. Lovely cores in those ALs :-)
Master lock is going to be so piss of with you lol
1-10 of master shit locks
The whole purpose of a lock is to keep things secure soooo what good is a lock or a lock rating if anything that fits into the keyway is a potential key? That's not secure that's a lie and a ripoff Master Lock is screaming at the top of their lungs "All of our customers are STUPID" by making locks that easy to open. I wonder if they actually test these locks if they do who is testing them? How TF are they still in business, I guess their customers really are just plain stupid like hitting yourself in the face with a shovel to kill a mosquito on your nose stupid, Master Locks are an invitation, a billboard in fact that says "Take Me" or "This Is The Easiest Way In"
To be fair, ML do some pretty good locks for some applications... but I still don’t understand their rating system :-)
+Lock Noob yeah like their Plastic LOTO locks they are quite good for training but that's about it
Check out bill he just loves to hate master lock just junk he got loads of videos ridiculing them
Seen ‘em all :-) B.B. is a legend
Well it didn't offer much pick resistance for you. Maybe the rating is just a self rating by them and not an official one. Is picking a real world threat? Have thieving scum got lock picking skills. It looks like they might even rake open. Looks like it might put up some resistance to physical attack
I guess I’d like more explicit information about what exactly 10/10 means and gets you as a consumer. I think that’s pretty fair. As for what skills thieves have, I’m affraid I don’t know, but if that wasn’t an issue, then why not just have 3 or 4 pins and save costs? :-)
So fucking funny