Just ran these at Putnam Park Roadcourse this past weekend. 85F and sunny. 35psi front and 23psi rear was my sweet spot. The rear was 25psi off the warmer, and off the track was 28psi. Had some cold tear and 23psi healed it in 3 sessions.
You must read my mind. I was just searching for the new Michelin line up! 2020 sucks, but subscribe to your premium channel is one of best thing happened this year
Dave Moss Tuning You got it, man. Very informative video! I do have a question tho, Im still using Power RS for track now, and I think I will mostly like to get the Power GP to replace it later this year (Cup 2 is too sticky for my stock suspension). What tire pressure will you recommend for the RS and GP?
The front really really holds , I had it leaned over this weekend and I thought for sure it would go . I was racing with buddies at a trackday and came in way faster than normal and hit a bumpy patch tire never even slid a bit. I’ve done same thing on same corner with the rs11 and they skipped and slipped . Same bike same suspension these are good tires. Rear is picky and needs a good setup it will tell you if your off.
im on the end with my RS11 on yamaha R1 and think about to try these Cup2 ! what about durability? because my RS11 have super Grip but with some street use they flat spot in middle very fast. thanks Man
Rs11 are not great on track imo , had a massive off in Spain from the front Letting go. The bad thing about this situation was I had power cups waiting to go on but thought I'd get one more day from rs11 , as my pace increased rs11 could not cut it . So as I stud at the side of the track looking at my brand new gsx-r with only 400 miles on it plus a broken hand I didn't feel to good and keep thinking why didn't I put the cups on ..
For those interested, here is my little contribution. I just went from Power RS to Power Cup 2. While the first one is great on the road, the feeling difference is huge on track. The rear never slipped while applying lots of throttle, even while cornering. It felt like I was far from the limits. Also the front feels a lot more stable under heavy breaking. That's very subjective, but that's what I felt. After 2 track days, the front is like new, and the rear is just starting to wear a little, it can do a lot more (intermediate group). I was worried about the wear after reading people talking about track tyres, but it can last several track days with no issue, at least at my level. I also had a slightly wet track the first day, it was raining a little. Even if I was riding relatively slow, the tires gave me confidence. I tried to find the limits by applying full throttle on straights, but no way, it has tons of grip, even on the wet with 165 HP... I'm totally happy with it so far. Just one consideration. 190/50 is not available, so I had to put a 190/55, it didn't fit and I had to modify the mudguard XD.
Thanks for your contribution. I'm more confident making the same switch as you going from the RS to the Cup 2. Great video with clear temps and pressures. I'm looking forward to my next track days with this tire. Cheers!
Power Cup 2 Is Next Level. Sidewalls are just sticky and wear was great. I think I could get 6 track days by keeping temps and pressures on point. Love them.
See this again - thank you for sharing! Excellent service of yours! ... Wish i could try them Cup 2s today ... . (We are already in southern spain in the desert, with the bike and a trailer, but weather is still cold - and unusal rainy. 😀)
Who would dislike this video? Shame shame on you. Dave you ever head to Arizona? Just moved here from the east coast been wanting a setup from you for years.
How he reads a tire and adjusts the bike to me is just as beautiful as the art of skillfully riding around a track…. Race engineering at its finest… Good man…
Dave, tks u so much for this & all the others videos you do. tks! tks! tks! your work bring so much to those who try to be better riders and could remind to most of riders that a motorbike is neither a simple transport mode, nor a "way of life", nor a funny/risky game, nor i don't know what else.. It's Motorbike and that's imply a certain consiousness of such a lot of things, like when you're a sailor or a plane pilot. you can agree or desagree, but as soon your wheels turn here on earth, you're dealing with a lot's of complexe and interactive phenomène. tks for helping us to get a better conscience and betterknowledge of motorbike, in thisgreat pedagogical simplicity that's yours! tks!
Dave you are the number one Guru!! And you were the first one I clicked on cos I know your review is the best. Im gonna get a set of these for the RSV4. As much as I love the Corsa SPs on my bike I really am a Michelin Man (not big white and made up of rings) Sounds like the best tyre for track day fun. Cheers Sir
You will then need to make sure the tires are level/plumb and then make sure that the gauge is level. Being that you cannot balance the gap difference for proper alignment and comparison. The gauge has to be square to the tires radial centerline. Or use straight edges and a square for any kind of accuracy.
I'm about to go for my third track day next weekend on my PowerRS's. I'm running intermediate upper mid pack with still very soft throttle application. On a hot day (30degC) ran 30f-28r psi cold. RS's felt like on rails. Will see how my third track day goes. Love RS's, but certainly for the next season, I may go Power Cup2. Not even sure if it's worth with my kind of speed lol!
Total gain cold to hot is 4-5psi, tested at the end of the 11am session (#3) and 3-4pm session in the afternoon so you can compare. We are slower in the mornings and faster up to a point in the afternoon. Quality over quantity regarding laps - don't stay out and embed mistakes as a standard behavior. Cost per lap should not be relevant.
@@catalystreactionsbw next time I'll start on same tire psi as before, but not sure what hot psi should be for optimum performance. Will aim for no more than 35f and 33r psi hot... Tires developed some mice poo roll off, but not too thick or thin. Track is rather small (basically 2nd and 3rd gear) and abrasive with full on acceleration and braking. Pity I cannot attach pictures here 😏
@@catalystreactionsbw Problem is, we only get 15 minute stints per rotation. Up here north, in Canada. Not sure what my "hot" pressure target should be... Tires feel great anyways, and will stick to my current observation.
Hello, your video was just recommended to me. very interesting approach, although I find it a bit too theoretical. However, geometry etc. is not about the last second either. What I'm missing is a clear statement of where the tire stands in comparison to the Pirelli supercorsa road, where does the tire stand in comparison to the Bridgestone rs10/rs11. no criticism, just a suggestion. I'll be riding the cup² soon on a 2002 fazer 1000 street machine, rebuilt, with a different spring strut and fork and what Michelin recommends in Germany, you can use it without tire warmers. Many thanks for your approach and greetings from Germany ps: your test motorcycle is an R6 (?), can a 600 push these modern street legal racing tires to their limits at all, or is it more about the front brake?
Thank you for your constructive feedback Lars. Yes, the test motorcycle is a 2012 R6. A good rider with this motorcycle can certainly go beyond the limits with their skill level and/or the use of TC etc.
How/why or by what metric are you describing the tire in when you say “it’s drops off from 130 out”. Are you using a clock ? Or 360 degrees? If a clock (not sure how you describe that metric) how....like wheres 12 and wheres 6. Same question regardless of the metric I suppose
Dave Moss Tuning i just meant is that an accurate portrayal of how physically taxing a normal track session is? I have no frame of reference. Or was that more because of how much work you had to do because of the light front end.
Off topic question for you, would you say in your experience bikes are steadily lighter, unlike cars which have done the opposite, or were there bikes lighter than today’s just 20 years ago even ? In any given segment although I’m focusing on low cc sport bikes and general consumer stuff not exotic materials like carbon fiber and high end
Bikes have been getting lighter since 2000, then it became a marketing point on how much lighter you were than the competition. That grew into composites and here we are now where bikes are mostly the same weight. Now, the war is for features!
I had to return mine, as I was getting micro tears at the bottom of the tread. It was randomly all over the bottom of the tyre tread. I'll hopefully hear back in 2-3 weeks what the problem was.
You wouldn’t go anywhere you’d tilt forward and smash your face on the ground 😂. You could have some electronic balancing Segway style but who wants that
I'm confused why is the tire pressure on the rear is lower than the front.. Does it have to be like that just on the track? or can it be used on the street?
Pressures are set at Manufacturer's recommended, then I test from there based on carcass temps and feel. Fronts are normally higher from braking and cornering forces.
0:17 seeing the tire bounce like that, wonder if there's a way to see how big patch is on my bike with my weight and psi, and how much it morphs like shown there, and if there's a way to determine what would be too small of a patch aside from low siding haha. I really need more education and experience for gaining more faith in tires and curves in general. Ive seen regular cruiser bikes handle turns and curves just like the sport bikes in front of them without problem, and even seen a couple cruisers with sport tires. 1:22 Interesting seeing the compound difference down the middle there.
How easily, and what would the consequences be, for a rider to out ride or over perform a regular street tire like Michelin Pilot Roads as opposed to Pilot Powers and others? Could a sport bike rider actually low side or take a corner too fast and slide or lose control on Roads than Powers? I really had a lot of confidence on my Pilot Power 2's, and same or more nite on my Battlax S22. And couldn't a Pilot Road have as much traction with a lower psi (hence greater contact patch) as a Pilot Power ith higher? Just how much different can the rubber actually be between them all? Every new model comes out claiming better wet and dry traction. But of course they do otherwise what's the point? And I see riders riding ultra aggressive on tires of way older iterations without problems. 1:22 Interesting seeing the compound difference down the middle there.
I understand your thought process and the physics that you "see" as possible projections. You did not include carcass structure nor suspension set up and geometry. All tires will fail on grip at a given moment, hypersport tires having a higher grip/traction coefficient that single compound. All tires will fail earlier due to poor set up. Over riding would most commonly be low side as over 64% of all motorcycle single vehicle accidents worldwide are loss of control on corner entry.
Slower turning is you decide where the bike goes via your inputs. Faster turn in is a match of bar energy and lean angle based on profile and fork position.
Hi, fantastic class, master. We are in Brazil always trying to learn from your teachings. Please enable the Portuguese translation, it helps a lot. thank you
Yo dave! How would you compare these to the Q4 sportmax? Or am i comparing apples to oranges...? I hope not. I'm looking for a really good track day tire before my next track day
Carcass is completely different on the Q4's. Very soft so they are pressure sensitive. Not compared geometry yet but contacting Dunlop for a set to test.
Dave Moss Tuning okay thanks for the response I was just slight confused on Warmers because the Michelin tire service guy in the video said Warmers needed.
All brakes will make a slight scuffing noise when free spinning as the pad is always in light contact with the rotor due to the design of the caliper piston seal :) If that scuffing noise is excessive or it doesn't spin freely then you can have slightly stuck on pistons, warped rotors, misaligned fork legs etc Hope this helped :)
Man go with Michelin Power 5 rear and maybe power GP on front but you can’t be going crazy on turns(wet) bc of front but straigh line you should be fine
Braking stability requires less carcass flex and we do a lot of braking at the track. Hence therefore the higher pressure. Throttle inpts are generally smooth and metered so lower pressure and more grip = better control.
Hello Dave I have quick question,I will be at the end of this month at chuckwalla race track,and probably will be hot maybe around 103 F. What temperature you suggest ,I will ride an aprilia rsv4 1000 , what target of pressure will work best after 1 session, I don't have tire warmer so I will check the pressure right after the first session ends, thanks very much in advance MICHELIN POVER CUP 2
If you like and need feedback so you know what is happening, the D212. If you want smaller bumps and more brain power for timing. skill execution - the PC2
i know its an older video , but power gp vs power cup2 which has higer throttle to tarmac feel. i dunno if this is correct but im asking which is better in giving the feel that the bike just went warp speed ? not due to sheer acceleration but due to tire-tar feel or as i have now learnt, which track-road tire has the highest drive grip ? across the market Thanks
I thought that the 190 is the width ( horizontal) and the 60 is the height ( vertical ) , please correct me if I’m wrong , I know it’s an old video, I just subbed
Hi Dave i know it is an old video, but are you using 190/55 on the R6. Normally I used180/60 on my track only R6 and the bike is setup for that. Would you recommend going to with the 190/55 or 180/55 as those are the only options?
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks for the reply so if we are talking about this specific tire Power Cup 2 then I should choose the 190/55? Unfortunately, I normally order tires online and cannot put them side by side.
Hi Dave, do you know if there's any difference between this tire and the power slick 2, besides the cutouts? I can't find any information about it. Thanks!
@@catalystreactionsbw i used SC 2 front and TD rear at Jennings .Sadly my gear setting wasn't right and my rear set wasn't adjusted right . But it was a good combination ! But Being Honest ! The BEST feeling and feed back was on Diablo Rosso Corsa 2 on my S1000RR
@@codyharrop4712 Note that this law makes no comment as to whether a gas heats or cools during compression or expansion. An ideal gas may not change temperature, but most gases like air are not ideal and follow the Joule-Thomson effect.[dubious - discuss]
Hi Dave. Quick question: What are your thoughts on the Michelin Power GP? Not as track-focused as the Cup 2, but is the Power GP still a good tire that gives alot of feedback?
Yes, gives great feedback for the road and track. Profile is a little softer so transitions are a touch more work but for those who want to "put" their bike where they want it, the PGP is great for that rider.
@@catalystreactionsbw thanks so much🏁😄. I have power cup Evo on my new bike. My r1 2015, the one with Evo turns in MUCH better then r1 2009 with power GP. Do they have simular profile? Dont feel so. Could it be its å newer bike and how its tune in the Suspension. ? Bless
aspect ratio (or height) of the tyre is represented as a percentage of the width of the tyre. In this example then, the height of the tyre is 55% of 180mm, which equates to 99mm. Do the same mathematics for the 190 so the 190 has more surface area to contact the ground.
Cold is what you choose based on where you are in the World and what road or track environment you are in. or you follow recommendations from Michelin to start. Hot is always 4-5psi more than cold.
Hello, I'm writing from Germany :-) it might be difficult to describe... but my question is which tire is better... handling... grip...etc...pirelli spv3 or powercup 2. For the street Greetings :)
SP V3 and MPC2 are both soft carcass tyres. The MPC2 has no tread pattern on the sides therefore it will offer more rubber on the ground and a better contact with the road.
@@catalystreactionsbw Many thanks for the quick response. :-) Agility? Change speed? Trust? Which one would be better?... I know that's a matter of taste...feeling...but you're the professional :-) thank you very much
@@chriscastle1873 Tyre structure that is made with an X design is reversible. Those with a V design are directional so if you reverse them, the internal structure starts to deconstruct..
Tires are matched sets for roll profile. Different tires within a brand/family have similarities. Across brands would be less likely. Does it mean you cannot ride this combination? No - approach with diligence and see if the front or rear lead on turn in.
@@alangolightly9850 There are very advanced items for tyre repairs now verses the car tyre plug. eg: Tire Repair Patch Plug 1/4" Auto Automotive Tubeless Tyre Repair Plug Patch 6mm Mushroom Nail Boot Kit Wired for Tire Repairs. I've used these many, many time with no issues at all. BUT, your mind has the last word......
@@catalystreactionsbw i used to the d212 M/E , the pc2s has comparable grip? What about the wear. Thank you so much Dave!!! I will run them on a bmw s1000rr 2020
@@bashmo9296 Yes - BUT you have to set geometry and damping correctly as you are going from a hard carcass tire to a soft carcass. Plenty of geometry videos for you to choose from.
@@robert61982619 I am cannot work with Track Daz - thy have their own suspension provider. I can help via Remote Tune service I provide with checks after every session. $80 for 30 minutes of 1-1 video.
HELP ME MR WIZARD!!! I need the extended life on the Pirelli Diablo Sueprcorsa SP's please! cuz 1700 miles doesn't work, they gettin spensive today.. help me please, I no can run the Michelin Highsiders, new bike spensive.. I needs grip them M's skeer me.. how to get more miles from the Diablo please
1. Set preload and damping. 2. Assess fork and shock travel used. 3. Optimize fork and shock travel. 4. Set cold pressures at 36 front and rear and ride. 5. Set cold pressures at 38 front and rear and test. Take notes on ambient temperature and the cold pressure you preferred. The hotter it gets, the higher the cold pressure must be.
Amateur vs. best in class professionals? Amateur rarely wins. May we say 'we knew before'? (Experiance, not guessing) If Michelin provides such a pair i try 'use as is' first - just because it's likely the quicker way to experiance. And we all know, you are you are just the same, but you wanted to show us spectators the basic principles and how to take action and responseability.
And I think Dunlop builds its motorcycle racing tyres according to this philosophy now for fourty plus years - at maximum average lean angle (now and then) they want to provide the customer 'with a side flat' - 'maximum rubber on the street'. And this typical maximum leanangle with predictably 'maximum rubber to the street' is for the rider easy to reproduce in every next corner, 'i know my lean angle, apply it' - a. quick for many, b. sales advantage (even if the driver does not reflect why) - 'i want me good Dunlop feeling again/back'. For some professional a reason to buy Michelin - 'i want it definitely best performance under each and all conditions, not 'reproduction of a feeling. Reproduction of a feeling 'is for amateurs'.'
@@richbonesjones4729 If you do some research from Michelin, see if the construction uses a zero belt construction. That type of data is very hard to find so ask your local Michelin Vendor for it. Zero degree belt = reversible.
@Dave Moss Tuning this was Michelins reply For more details, if wanted : The radial construction uses a ply running from bead to bead at 90 degrees to the direction of rotation and this is the basis of a radial tyre. This can be accompanied by reinforcing plies laid at much shallower angles, but a ply running at 0 degrees to the direction of rotation is always used. Michelins high performance radial tyres such as those that you enquired about all use a zero degree belt made of aramid. This offers greater strength for a lower weight than a steel belt, and it's also more flexible, allowing for a large and even contact patch and reducing wheel inertia and gyroscopic effects to give light and confident handling with easy changes of direction."
Just ran these at Putnam Park Roadcourse this past weekend. 85F and sunny. 35psi front and 23psi rear was my sweet spot. The rear was 25psi off the warmer, and off the track was 28psi. Had some cold tear and 23psi healed it in 3 sessions.
Nicely done Charles - thanks for sharing your pressures and track temps!
Didn't have temps of the track surface unfortunately.
You must read my mind. I was just searching for the new Michelin line up! 2020 sucks, but subscribe to your premium channel is one of best thing happened this year
Thank you for the kudos!
Dave Moss Tuning You got it, man. Very informative video! I do have a question tho, Im still using Power RS for track now, and I think I will mostly like to get the Power GP to replace it later this year (Cup 2 is too sticky for my stock suspension). What tire pressure will you recommend for the RS and GP?
@@catalystreactionsbw Saw your tire pressue video, I got it now!
The front really really holds , I had it leaned over this weekend and I thought for sure it would go . I was racing with buddies at a trackday and came in way faster than normal and hit a bumpy patch tire never even slid a bit. I’ve done same thing on same corner with the rs11 and they skipped and slipped . Same bike same suspension these are good tires. Rear is picky and needs a good setup it will tell you if your off.
im on the end with my RS11 on yamaha R1 and think about to try these Cup2 !
what about durability? because my RS11 have super Grip but with some street use they flat spot in middle very fast.
thanks Man
Rs11 are not great on track imo , had a massive off in Spain from the front Letting go. The bad thing about this situation was I had power cups waiting to go on but thought I'd get one more day from rs11 , as my pace increased rs11 could not cut it . So as I stud at the side of the track looking at my brand new gsx-r with only 400 miles on it plus a broken hand I didn't feel to good and keep thinking why didn't I put the cups on ..
For those interested, here is my little contribution. I just went from Power RS to Power Cup 2. While the first one is great on the road, the feeling difference is huge on track. The rear never slipped while applying lots of throttle, even while cornering. It felt like I was far from the limits. Also the front feels a lot more stable under heavy breaking. That's very subjective, but that's what I felt.
After 2 track days, the front is like new, and the rear is just starting to wear a little, it can do a lot more (intermediate group). I was worried about the wear after reading people talking about track tyres, but it can last several track days with no issue, at least at my level.
I also had a slightly wet track the first day, it was raining a little. Even if I was riding relatively slow, the tires gave me confidence. I tried to find the limits by applying full throttle on straights, but no way, it has tons of grip, even on the wet with 165 HP...
I'm totally happy with it so far.
Just one consideration. 190/50 is not available, so I had to put a 190/55, it didn't fit and I had to modify the mudguard XD.
Thank you for sharing your experiences for others and paying it forward for others to benefit from!
Thanks for your contribution. I'm more confident making the same switch as you going from the RS to the Cup 2. Great video with clear temps and pressures. I'm looking forward to my next track days with this tire. Cheers!
Power Cup 2 Is Next Level. Sidewalls are just sticky and wear was great. I think I could get 6 track days by keeping temps and pressures on point. Love them.
@@jimcarroll2557 nice to hear that you liked it too
dude the intro never gets old! Funny yet simple
I've enjoyed learning everytime I check out this channel. Practical help to make you safer and have a better riding experience.
Instablaster
Unbelievable depth of knowledge
See this again - thank you for sharing! Excellent service of yours! ... Wish i could try them Cup 2s today ... . (We are already in southern spain in the desert, with the bike and a trailer, but weather is still cold - and unusal rainy. 😀)
Who would dislike this video? Shame shame on you. Dave you ever head to Arizona? Just moved here from the east coast been wanting a setup from you for years.
That's why I set up remote tune so you can do it from the comfort of your own home!
From. Anywhere. In. The. World.
How he reads a tire and adjusts the bike to me is just as beautiful as the art of skillfully riding around a track…. Race engineering at its finest… Good man…
Thank you for watching and enjoying the content.
I love these tires they do grip
Great to see you back on RUclips Dave 👍.
Thanks 👍
Dave, tks u so much for this & all the others videos you do. tks! tks! tks! your work bring so much to those who try to be better riders and could remind to most of riders that a motorbike is neither a simple transport mode, nor a "way of life", nor a funny/risky game, nor i don't know what else.. It's Motorbike and that's imply a certain consiousness of such a lot of things, like when you're a sailor or a plane pilot. you can agree or desagree, but as soon your wheels turn here on earth, you're dealing with a lot's of complexe and interactive phenomène. tks for helping us to get a better conscience and betterknowledge of motorbike, in thisgreat pedagogical simplicity that's yours! tks!
Dave you are the number one Guru!! And you were the first one I clicked on cos I know your review is the best. Im gonna get a set of these for the RSV4. As much as I love the Corsa SPs on my bike I really am a Michelin Man (not big white and made up of rings) Sounds like the best tyre for track day fun. Cheers Sir
Did you try them at least?
Great video. It’s pronounced Me-Che-LIN with an emphasis on the final syllable.
Merci!
I think you can still use that profile tool for the rear tire, just use it to trace from the middle to one side, as the tire is symetrical.
Agreed! Dave wants to wait for the full size one......
@@catalystreactionsbw Us boys need our toys 😂
You will then need to make sure the tires are level/plumb and then make sure that the gauge is level. Being that you cannot balance the gap difference for proper alignment and comparison. The gauge has to be square to the tires radial centerline. Or use straight edges and a square for any kind of accuracy.
Recommended front pressures cold for track from Michelin are 30.5 and not 32.
I'm about to go for my third track day next weekend on my PowerRS's. I'm running intermediate upper mid pack with still very soft throttle application. On a hot day (30degC) ran 30f-28r psi cold. RS's felt like on rails. Will see how my third track day goes. Love RS's, but certainly for the next season, I may go Power Cup2. Not even sure if it's worth with my kind of speed lol!
Total gain cold to hot is 4-5psi, tested at the end of the 11am session (#3) and 3-4pm session in the afternoon so you can compare. We are slower in the mornings and faster up to a point in the afternoon. Quality over quantity regarding laps - don't stay out and embed mistakes as a standard behavior. Cost per lap should not be relevant.
@@catalystreactionsbw next time I'll start on same tire psi as before, but not sure what hot psi should be for optimum performance. Will aim for no more than 35f and 33r psi hot... Tires developed some mice poo roll off, but not too thick or thin. Track is rather small (basically 2nd and 3rd gear) and abrasive with full on acceleration and braking. Pity I cannot attach pictures here 😏
@@czierwo Street - 3-4psi gain over cold is ideal. Check after 30-45 minutes of riding.
@@catalystreactionsbw Problem is, we only get 15 minute stints per rotation. Up here north, in Canada. Not sure what my "hot" pressure target should be... Tires feel great anyways, and will stick to my current observation.
@@czierwo in 15 minutes, that is plenty of time for the tire to build heat so 5/6 would be ideal.
Great video. I just got a 2017 rsv4 rf and am putting Power Cup 2's on it for Laguna next week. Will you be out there next Monday?
I will not and the forecast is cold so set at 32 front and 21 rear cold. You should see a 3-4.5 gain by the 11-12 noon session.
Have fun!
Hello, your video was just recommended to me. very interesting approach, although I find it a bit too theoretical. However, geometry etc. is not about the last second either. What I'm missing is a clear statement of where the tire stands in comparison to the Pirelli supercorsa road, where does the tire stand in comparison to the Bridgestone rs10/rs11. no criticism, just a suggestion. I'll be riding the cup² soon on a 2002 fazer 1000 street machine, rebuilt, with a different spring strut and fork and what Michelin recommends in Germany, you can use it without tire warmers. Many thanks for your approach and greetings from Germany ps: your test motorcycle is an R6 (?), can a 600 push these modern street legal racing tires to their limits at all, or is it more about the front brake?
Thank you for your constructive feedback Lars. Yes, the test motorcycle is a 2012 R6. A good rider with this motorcycle can certainly go beyond the limits with their skill level and/or the use of TC etc.
How/why or by what metric are you describing the tire in when you say “it’s drops off from 130 out”. Are you using a clock ? Or 360 degrees? If a clock (not sure how you describe that metric) how....like wheres 12 and wheres 6. Same question regardless of the metric I suppose
It is a clock face and 12 in top dead center of the tire
nice use of a contour gauge!
Would it be better to compare tire profiles as mounted on wheel?
That seems like it would be smart.
Does the carcass affect the fact that the front was still riding high after the initial geometry change?
Soft rear carcass = more deflection so that leaves the fork "higher" and therefore the bike requires more energy to steer.
11:26 you take a deep breath is that from
The workout of the track run? Is every run that exhausting? Fun!
I don't get to rest at all. Come in, debrief & video, work the changes needed, drink some water, go back out for 5 hours.
Dave Moss Tuning i just meant is that an accurate portrayal of how physically taxing a normal track session is? I have no frame of reference. Or was that more because of how much work you had to do because of the light front end.
Off topic question for you, would you say in your experience bikes are steadily lighter, unlike cars which have done the opposite, or were there bikes lighter than today’s just 20 years ago even ? In any given segment although I’m focusing on low cc sport bikes and general consumer stuff not exotic materials like carbon fiber and high end
Bikes have been getting lighter since 2000, then it became a marketing point on how much lighter you were than the competition. That grew into composites and here we are now where bikes are mostly the same weight. Now, the war is for features!
I had to return mine, as I was getting micro tears at the bottom of the tread.
It was randomly all over the bottom of the tyre tread.
I'll hopefully hear back in 2-3 weeks what the problem was.
6:10 Thumbnail pic would definitely be a wicked idea of a motorcycle with two side wheels
You wouldn’t go anywhere you’d tilt forward and smash your face on the ground 😂. You could have some electronic balancing Segway style but who wants that
I'm confused why is the tire pressure on the rear is lower than the front.. Does it have to be like that just on the track? or can it be used on the street?
Pressures are set at Manufacturer's recommended, then I test from there based on carcass temps and feel. Fronts are normally higher from braking and cornering forces.
0:17 seeing the tire bounce like that, wonder if there's a way to see how big patch is on my bike with my weight and psi, and how much it morphs like shown there, and if there's a way to determine what would be too small of a patch aside from low siding haha. I really need more education and experience for gaining more faith in tires and curves in general. Ive seen regular cruiser bikes handle turns and curves just like the sport bikes in front of them without problem, and even seen a couple cruisers with sport tires. 1:22 Interesting seeing the compound difference down the middle there.
How easily, and what would the consequences be, for a rider to out ride or over perform a regular street tire like Michelin Pilot Roads as opposed to Pilot Powers and others? Could a sport bike rider actually low side or take a corner too fast and slide or lose control on Roads than Powers? I really had a lot of confidence on my Pilot Power 2's, and same or more nite on my Battlax S22. And couldn't a Pilot Road have as much traction with a lower psi (hence greater contact patch) as a Pilot Power ith higher? Just how much different can the rubber actually be between them all? Every new model comes out claiming better wet and dry traction. But of course they do otherwise what's the point? And I see riders riding ultra aggressive on tires of way older iterations without problems. 1:22 Interesting seeing the compound difference down the middle there.
I understand your thought process and the physics that you "see" as possible projections. You did not include carcass structure nor suspension set up and geometry. All tires will fail on grip at a given moment, hypersport tires having a higher grip/traction coefficient that single compound. All tires will fail earlier due to poor set up. Over riding would most commonly be low side as over 64% of all motorcycle single vehicle accidents worldwide are loss of control on corner entry.
Yes a chunk vid at last 😂
🙏🏽🤣🤣
So “slower turning” is different than quicker turn in? Or no
Slower turning is you decide where the bike goes via your inputs. Faster turn in is a match of bar energy and lean angle based on profile and fork position.
I was also told to go to the 190 this weekend at the track from the 180 . When Dave tells me I know it’s the truth .
Is with the Supercorsa SP V3 more lean angle possible? The front tire from the Michelin looks "flat".
Both the PC2 and V3 are soft carcass tires. More lean angle requires firmer carcass.
Hi, fantastic class, master. We are in Brazil always trying to learn from your teachings. Please enable the Portuguese translation, it helps a lot. thank you
Thank you for your kind words. I will need to understand how to enable the translation so I need to do some research!
Yo dave! How would you compare these to the Q4 sportmax? Or am i comparing apples to oranges...? I hope not. I'm looking for a really good track day tire before my next track day
I run Q4s and haven’t had any issues. IMO I like them.
Carcass is completely different on the Q4's. Very soft so they are pressure sensitive. Not compared geometry yet but contacting Dunlop for a set to test.
Currently running a Q4 180/60 on my 600 would you go 190/55 or 180/55 as they don’t have this tire in a 180/60
Also could I run this without warmers
I would compare height of the 180/55 and 190/55 to be sure which one is larger in circumference. Pick the bigger one. No warmers needed.
Dave Moss Tuning okay thanks for the response I was just slight confused on Warmers because the Michelin tire service guy in the video said Warmers needed.
Love to see it !
What kind of back protector is Dave wearing? @8:46
Are you running the 190/55 or 180/55?
Edit- I see 190/55 sticker in the beginning of the video
1:11 seeing the rotor there, do all bikes make a sort of grinding rubbing sound when free rolling, or are my calipers too tight?
All brakes will make a slight scuffing noise when free spinning as the pad is always in light contact with the rotor due to the design of the caliper piston seal :)
If that scuffing noise is excessive or it doesn't spin freely then you can have slightly stuck on pistons, warped rotors, misaligned fork legs etc
Hope this helped :)
The question is would you choose these over the metzeler TD slick for pure track day riding?
Because I want value for money, on a personal level I would choose track day tyres that are reversible to get longer life.
Mr Dave i am using Pirelli TD on rear and SC2 front in Jennings ! Should i try the power cup 2 ??
Michelin uses Jennings for testing so I would say yes to the PC2 for you for that track. Glad the Rosso's worked well for you :)
Great great video... thank you
Glad you enjoyed it!
Sir my bike is fazer 1000 2012 model with no Traction &abs. I want a tyre which is more reliable on twisty & wet road. Please suggest
Man go with Michelin Power 5 rear and maybe power GP on front but you can’t be going crazy on turns(wet) bc of front but straigh line you should be fine
How come pressure are reversed on the track is it because of weight transfer
Braking stability requires less carcass flex and we do a lot of braking at the track. Hence therefore the higher pressure. Throttle inpts are generally smooth and metered so lower pressure and more grip = better control.
Hello Dave I have quick question,I will be at the end of this month at chuckwalla race track,and probably will be hot maybe around 103 F. What temperature you suggest ,I will ride an aprilia rsv4 1000 , what target of pressure will work best after 1 session, I don't have tire warmer so I will check the pressure right after the first session ends, thanks very much in advance MICHELIN POVER CUP 2
Power Cup 2 should start at 22 cold rear and 32 cold front for that event. Gain should be 4-6psi checked at after your 11am and 2pm sessions.
Power cup 2 vs Q5’s which would you pick and why?
Street, Q5 for rain grooves and harder compound. Track PC2 for longevity.
Hmm, hard carcas tyres for me plea hey a squirrel!
Great informative video ! Thank you “
HEY DAVE! WHY DID YOU USE 190/55 REAR INSTEAD OF 180/55? WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE?
Yes it was as many track day riders and racers choose the 180 for more grip at speed. It also helped show "how" correct the geometry with that choice.
Dave, you are the best!! proud subscriber !
Thank you very much. That is very humbling.
Hey dave for track day whats better d212 or power cup 2?
If you like and need feedback so you know what is happening, the D212. If you want smaller bumps and more brain power for timing. skill execution - the PC2
i know its an older video , but power gp vs power cup2 which has higer throttle to tarmac feel. i dunno if this is correct but im asking which is better in giving the feel that the bike just went warp speed ? not due to sheer acceleration but due to tire-tar feel
or as i have now learnt,
which track-road tire has the highest drive grip ? across the market
Thanks
For the Power Cup 2 gave much better feedback and feel.
The silver part on measuring tape is called a “tang” lol
Aha!!!!!! Thank you :)
And the movement is if you want the inside measurement or the outside.
wobbly sauce which is which
I thought that the 190 is the width ( horizontal) and the 60 is the height ( vertical ) , please correct me if I’m wrong , I know it’s an old video, I just subbed
Thanks for subscribing! Ratio between tire section height and nominal section width is correct!
Hi Dave i know it is an old video, but are you using 190/55 on the R6. Normally I used180/60 on my track only R6 and the bike is setup for that. Would you recommend going to with the 190/55 or 180/55 as those are the only options?
Always a 180/60 for an R6 if possible. If not, put the 180 and 190 side by side to check for overall diameter and pic the taller tire.
@@catalystreactionsbw Thanks for the reply so if we are talking about this specific tire Power Cup 2 then I should choose the 190/55? Unfortunately, I normally order tires online and cannot put them side by side.
@@dfakto Yes, 190/55
Mr Moss, how do you like these cup 2s compared to the Pirelli SC1?
Very similar carcasses, same grip levels.
@@catalystreactionsbw thank you!!
How did they compare to the Q3+?
Hi Dave, do you know if there's any difference between this tire and the power slick 2, besides the cutouts? I can't find any information about it.
Thanks!
From what I have been told by the local Michelin rep, there is no difference.
@@catalystreactionsbw Great, thanks!
How this tire comper to supercorsa v3?
I will be riding the SC TD tire in about a month.
@@catalystreactionsbw i used SC 2 front and TD rear at Jennings .Sadly my gear setting wasn't right and my rear set wasn't adjusted right . But it was a good combination ! But Being Honest ! The BEST feeling and feed back was on Diablo Rosso Corsa 2 on my S1000RR
09:14
nope.
its the volume .
the more space the more the air expands
Nah, ideal gas law. You need more energy (∆T) to increase the pressure of a larger volume.
@@codyharrop4712 Note that this law makes no comment as to whether a gas heats or cools during compression or expansion. An ideal gas may not change temperature, but most gases like air are not ideal and follow the Joule-Thomson effect.[dubious - discuss]
Hi Dave. Quick question: What are your thoughts on the Michelin Power GP? Not as track-focused as the Cup 2, but is the Power GP still a good tire that gives alot of feedback?
Yes, gives great feedback for the road and track. Profile is a little softer so transitions are a touch more work but for those who want to "put" their bike where they want it, the PGP is great for that rider.
@@catalystreactionsbw are the profile "more soft" Then on power 5? Please answer, cause i dont know what to choose. GP are not nimble. Bless tony
@@angelicawallin804 Profile is the same on both. If you do not know what to choose go with Power 5
@@catalystreactionsbw thanks so much🏁😄. I have power cup Evo on my new bike. My r1 2015, the one with Evo turns in MUCH better then r1 2009 with power GP. Do they have simular profile? Dont feel so. Could it be its å newer bike and how its tune in the Suspension. ? Bless
@@angelicawallin804 Similar yes but geometry on both bikes is slightly different as is fork and shock oil age (potentially)
What’s the difference between 190/55 and 180/55 on the r6 rear?
aspect ratio (or height) of the tyre is represented as a percentage of the width of the tyre. In this example then, the height of the tyre is 55% of 180mm, which equates to 99mm. Do the same mathematics for the 190 so the 190 has more surface area to contact the ground.
On the Michelin power slick 2 what tire pressures would you recommend cold and hot?
Cold is what you choose based on where you are in the World and what road or track environment you are in. or you follow recommendations from Michelin to start. Hot is always 4-5psi more than cold.
Their carcass is not good feeling on softer setup. Love the RS11 R10 and SC2s.
Hello, I'm writing from Germany :-) it might be difficult to describe... but my question is which tire is better... handling... grip...etc...pirelli spv3 or powercup 2. For the street Greetings :)
SP V3 and MPC2 are both soft carcass tyres. The MPC2 has no tread pattern on the sides therefore it will offer more rubber on the ground and a better contact with the road.
@@catalystreactionsbw Many thanks for the quick response. :-) Agility? Change speed? Trust? Which one would be better?... I know that's a matter of taste...feeling...but you're the professional :-) thank you very much
@@mauriiruam7146 Stiffer carcass = more agility, so V3
@@catalystreactionsbw thank you very much 😊 👍🤜🤛
What is their lifespan?
I mean by riding only on twisty roads and race tracks.
I have 5 track days at A pace out of the set. No street miles.
@@catalystreactionsbw 5 track days at high pace is a lot. Thank you! 😊
Are they directional? Or can they be flipped just like a slick? I can’t find this information anywhere
They are directional. we confirmed that.
@@catalystreactionsbw so flipping isn’t a option or does it “matter” Bike will never see the street, track only.
@@chriscastle1873 Tyre structure that is made with an X design is reversible. Those with a V design are directional so if you reverse them, the internal structure starts to deconstruct..
My next set! I've gotten faster,and I can feel the front street tires really about to let go under hard braking
Power 5 rear Diablo 4 front: a problem?
Tires are matched sets for roll profile. Different tires within a brand/family have similarities. Across brands would be less likely. Does it mean you cannot ride this combination? No - approach with diligence and see if the front or rear lead on turn in.
Guess I'll stick with diablo 4 rear. Picked up a nail on rear. Afraid to repair.
@@alangolightly9850 There are very advanced items for tyre repairs now verses the car tyre plug. eg: Tire Repair Patch Plug 1/4" Auto Automotive Tubeless Tyre Repair Plug Patch 6mm Mushroom Nail Boot Kit Wired for Tire Repairs. I've used these many, many time with no issues at all. BUT, your mind has the last word......
I'm still struggling wich one to choose between this and d212 :/
If you want feedback, D212. If you want the bumps to get smaller, PC2.
@@catalystreactionsbw i used to the d212 M/E , the pc2s has comparable grip? What about the wear. Thank you so much Dave!!! I will run them on a bmw s1000rr 2020
@@bashmo9296 Yes - BUT you have to set geometry and damping correctly as you are going from a hard carcass tire to a soft carcass. Plenty of geometry videos for you to choose from.
@@catalystreactionsbw thank you so Much Dave!!! You are the best!
Are the speeds in mph?
Yes they are in mph.
Will you be at buttonwillow in march?
With AFM yes.
@@catalystreactionsbw I'll be there with trackdaz march 8th
@@robert61982619 I am cannot work with Track Daz - thy have their own suspension provider. I can help via Remote Tune service I provide with checks after every session. $80 for 30 minutes of 1-1 video.
Well I already just hit order on them but hey this is helpful lol
Why Michelin didn’t make 200/60 I want to try those tires on panigale but 200/55 it is not for that bike…???
Compare circumference side by side with other tires to see if they are the same diameter as a 200/60
Woukd these work on road bike?
Yes, many road riders choose these for canyon riding
@@catalystreactionsbw i thought they might be limited to heat cycles, i usually run racetec rr k3 but fancy something more sticky
@@juicer404 Heat cycles are a thing of the past as tires have a lot of silica in them, so there is not much oil at all.
HELP ME MR WIZARD!!! I need the extended life on the Pirelli Diablo Sueprcorsa SP's please! cuz 1700 miles doesn't work, they gettin spensive today.. help me please, I no can run the Michelin Highsiders, new bike spensive.. I needs grip them M's skeer me.. how to get more miles from the Diablo please
1. Set preload and damping. 2. Assess fork and shock travel used. 3. Optimize fork and shock travel. 4. Set cold pressures at 36 front and rear and ride. 5. Set cold pressures at 38 front and rear and test. Take notes on ambient temperature and the cold pressure you preferred. The hotter it gets, the higher the cold pressure must be.
Amateur vs. best in class professionals? Amateur rarely wins.
May we say 'we knew before'? (Experiance, not guessing) If Michelin provides such a pair i try 'use as is' first - just because it's likely the quicker way to experiance.
And we all know, you are you are just the same, but you wanted to show us spectators the basic principles and how to take action and responseability.
And I think Dunlop builds its motorcycle racing tyres according to this philosophy now for fourty plus years - at maximum average lean angle (now and then) they want to provide the customer 'with a side flat' - 'maximum rubber on the street'. And this typical maximum leanangle with predictably 'maximum rubber to the street' is for the rider easy to reproduce in every next corner, 'i know my lean angle, apply it' - a. quick for many, b. sales advantage (even if the driver does not reflect why) - 'i want me good Dunlop feeling again/back'.
For some professional a reason to buy Michelin - 'i want it definitely best performance under each and all conditions, not 'reproduction of a feeling. Reproduction of a feeling 'is for amateurs'.'
Bought another Diablo 4.
Uhhgg Uhhgg BASICALLY :)
Dude it's pronounced Michelin
Hi Dave it it OK to flip a Michelin Power Cup 2 or Evo Cup (rears only)
Would only be on a dry track.
I was told not to by the distributer and did not. I did not independently flip it and see what happened.
@Dave Moss Tuning Roger that so you defo didn't flip it then 🤣
I'll take onboard what you was advised and bin it then 😭
@@richbonesjones4729 If you do some research from Michelin, see if the construction uses a zero belt construction. That type of data is very hard to find so ask your local Michelin Vendor for it. Zero degree belt = reversible.
@@catalystreactionsbw thanks Dave I have fired them an email
@Dave Moss Tuning this was Michelins reply
For more details, if wanted : The radial construction uses a ply running from bead to bead at 90 degrees to the direction of rotation and this is the basis of a radial tyre. This can be accompanied by reinforcing plies laid at much shallower angles, but a ply running at 0 degrees to the direction of rotation is always used.
Michelins high performance radial tyres such as those that you enquired about all use a zero degree belt made of aramid. This offers greater strength for a lower weight than a steel belt, and it's also more flexible, allowing for a large and even contact patch and reducing wheel inertia and gyroscopic effects to give light and confident handling with easy changes of direction."