most of the teams struggling are doing do because they don't have proper management in place. Get the right people and place and we see small market teams do better.
@@MrTheRisingtide Ottawa and Arizona just needs to move their stadium closer to downtown.. Buffalo is just poorly run, theres support there.. Florida maybe one that is just in a bad area also.. gotta start grass roots!
Wouldn't mind seeing a 20 team playoff and having a team have a first round bye to allow conference champions to rest OR..... allow winners of conferences to chose playoff structure in the first round.
@@geoff3103 playoffs are good for business. It draws in more, the cap goes up the talent is showcased better. Don't be mad at Detroits 20+ year playoff run.
I remember football in England in the 1970's where two of the big six, Manchester United and Tottenham were relegated. With relegation you also get promotion. Both Man Utd and Spurs were promoted back to the top league at the first attempt. I think if some of the big spending NHL franchises were relegated in a two tier system they would be back within a season or two. I would be more worried about some of the smaller market teams as they would languish in the lower level only occasionally getting promoted to the big league. Once in the big league they would spend more time in a relegation dogfight than challenging for the cup. The financial gap between the bigger franchises and the smaller ones would grow year on year.
Well that's the point of the lower tier. If the interest isn't there for a team they can go there to fade away and move. Also gives fans of teams something to cheer about accomplishment wise. Coaches too get a goal to work towards. Not to mention the NHLPA would be ecstatic.
THG dude. Why are you not working full time in hockey. I'm serious. Thank you in taking up my point. I'll look around for a Canadians Barber pole jersey you are that sympathetic and knowledgeable.
He is working full time in hockey. Just because he isn't one of the clowns at the hockey networks, doesn't mean that he isn't exactly where he should be.
@@sevantookmanian hey guys, I’m just new here. It’s just that he speaks of his work or job. I’m now a fan. It’s great that he can. I just believe he deserves more coverage he is so knowledgeable.
I love this league but 82 games is too much, players are beat up and getting hurt which lessons the product over the long season. Not sure what’s a good number of games but each team should at least play each other home/ away from the other conference. Looking forward to next season hopefully w a pandemic that is almost over!! Hockey fans rock!!!
Its 82 games that mean nothing that is the real problem, 75 game or less regular season for playoff order and start the playoffs with 32 teams, give the struggling teams a chance to earn some fans with a upset.
@@smaug1234 dude that is the dumbest plan I have ever fucking heard. No other pro sports league lets every single team make the playoffs lmao. I'm sorry but it will be even more embarrassing that way!
@@JarradBruessel32 why do you have to do what other pro sports leagues do? I am sorry but the idea is to get fans in seats and watching on TV, you are not gonna do that without spectacle, you are not gonna do it doing what everyone else does.
@@smaug1234 who honestly wants to watch their team get their ass handed to them for 4 straight games? Lol. No one. Why would I wanna wat Detroit get their asses kicked by Tampa for 4 games straight? Or why would buffalo wanna play against Colorado for 4 straight games? That would be completely embarrassing. Hell when I was in the MnJHL, all 12 teams from each conference made the playoffs. The st. Louis frontenacs had 1 win all season and were playing the Marquette royals who lead the league in points. St. Louis forfeited the playoffs because what was the fucking point? They don't wanna go all the way to the u.p. to get their asses handed to them for 2 games.
@@smaug1234 the playoffs then lose their spectacle then if everyone makes it. Then teams won't try in the regular season because they aren't fighting for a playoff spot. Then your regular season games lose all meaning. Then whats the point of a regular season? Why don't you just do a round robin tournament and then only play like 8 games then do a bracket off of those results? See how fucking dumb that is? The playoffs are supposed to mean something! You let everyone make the playoffs then no person will look at the NHL as a serious league. It will become a joke.
Hamilton makes up at least 1/4 of Buffalo's ticket sales... it's way cheaper to watch a game in Buffalo then Toronto... the reason Betman refuses a team in Hamilton has NOTHING to do with TO and everything to do with Buffalo... remember when they even refused Blackberry's owner from moving a dead team (Phoenix I believe) to Hamilton... and he was willing to give almost anything to make it happen!
I think Nashville is the team that almost moved to Hamilton. And if I'm not mistaken it's because the would be buyer (guy from blackberry) was basically trying to jump the gun and assumed it was a done deal, and already started planning a move to Hamilton before he even bought the team. The NHL board needs to meet about those things and he didn't even submit an application to have it discussed. I'm sure there's some way more complicated stuff in there that I don't understand but that's the gist of it.
@@KevynKing Pittsburgh was his first attempt to buy a team... Nashville was his second... Phoenix was his 3rd attempt and was the only one with a condition that he'd get to move the team to southern Ontario... just looked it up... didn't even know he tried to buy Pittsburgh from Mario... wowsers.
I'm all in for Halifax having an NHL team , after all it's where the game was invented .... and what a market for that city , 3 provinces for a fan base , New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and PEI .
I live in downtown Kansas City and it is rapidly expanding and a very attractive spot for expats around North America. I think the NHL in KC would be a huge success.
This isn’t entirely related but you talking about European expansion got me thinking about it. What are your thoughts on the Super Series from the 70s to early 90s. Would you want to see the NHL and KHL bring them back? I never got to see any, but it seems like a pretty cool concept having the two top hockey leagues in the world play each other.
If pro-rel system is implemented in the NHL and NBA, it will be an ultimate killer for small market teams and struggling teams. Imagine a team like say the Arizona Coyotes or the New Orleans Pelicans - would any free agent even consider join these teams if they're in their respective second tiers of the NHL and NBA? I'm pretty sure that Zion Wiliamson won't want to spend his NBA career in a NBA2 team. I think 32 is the optimal number of teams in the NHL (I think the NBA should also expand to 32 teams, but I don't think it will happen until the TV deal ends in 2026 I guess)
Top hockey leagues around the world should organize a tournament every 4 years in which the top teams of each league compete against one another for a world title! For example, the top 4 teams of the top 4 leagues in the world make it to the world title! Simply add up regilar season points over the 4 years period to get the top 4 teams of each league
@@slytester5636 I like the idea! But I think it would be unfair for the Junior teams, unfortunately! Boys vs men would be too hard! NHL, KHL, SHL and Liiga were my picks! But I'm open to more suggestions
I’d love to see the current pre panini divisions with an added team in Portland (Pacific) Kansas City (Central) Québec City (Atlantic) Cleveland (Metropolitan)
Best hockey channel on UTube. Concise, unbiased and thoughtful commentary. You come across as a fan giving info not as an “expert” giving their opinion as fact.
If we had stayed at 21, I don't we would've seen players like Brayden Point, or as many surprise "Caufield-esque" runs. Assuming the same talent pools over the years, how far down the depth chart do you think a guy like Point would be with 21 NHL/Ahl/etc teams, and for how long? + the development teams get worse the further down you go
I am thankful that overall seems like people aren’t worried about Seattle as a market the way they were with Vegas. We have had WHL teams here for decades and it will be nice to all rally together around our regional team instead of adopting a different one.
Quebec City should get one. The problem is if you're looking for a new market, the primary player base for the draft and development is already in a lot of the larger cities like Halifax, London, Oshawa, Hamilton, etc, so if you expand to one of those, will that take away from the local CHL teams or bring in more revenue? I would hope it brings in more, but it could go both ways.
@@zjean3417 except none of the owners can afford it and they wanna get more fans not keep with the same existing fan base. You already watch hockey don't you? Then you aren't the target. The targets are new fans. You need to bring in more viewers. People who watch hockey already aren't going to bring in more money to the league. You can only expand your business by expanding into new markets.
Everyone gets hung up on Hartford because of the nostalgia. But it’s a terrible market for sports for its own team with the dominance that is New York & Boston sports. I’d prefer a team in Halifax over Hartford, that’d be pretty neat.
@@MisterMike95 If the economy were doing better in New England, I actually would’ve envision the Whalers coming back, either as an expansion or relocation. (Would not be Carolina.) Hockey is doable in any cold weather market.
I don't understand how the St. Louis metro has more population than a lot of cities including Vegas yet St. Louis only has the NHL and MLB. Its bizarre to me the way sports markets work.
Stopping at 32 is best for today, but in 20 years from now I imagine more teams would be ideal. Cities get bigger as time goes on, which increases the chance of success for an expansion team.
@@aliceliska Its the best league in Europe but I doubt people outside of russia watches KHL because Sweden, Finland, Germany and more has their own leagues
There are a few KHL teams in the eastern half of Europe (outside of Russia), including Finland's Jokerit (where Selanne began his career!), Dinamo Riga in Latvia, and HC Dinamo Minsk in Belarus. I get that there may be an audience for KHL hockey in Finland, but I think it's less popular in Sweden and Germany.
@@DialHoang Less popular? i know almost nobody who watches KHL. Same goes for NHL to be honest. People watch DEL and Bundesliga (both football and Handball). And thats it.
@@DialHoang Jokerit are reported to be having a problem economically in KHL. Leaving ones rivalries behind to play a bunch of new teams is a really bad idea economically.
I want the league to expand further, but they should definitely wait a long time before doing it. Support the existing teams and either relocate them or help them succeed in their current markets. However, in a somewhat distant future, if the league is bringing in consistent profit and the game is growing and becoming more popular, along with a better economy in both the US and Canada, then there are several markets (Houston, Kansas City, Quebec City, Hamilton would be my four) that could be able to support teams, which in turn could continue to support the game.
I know 4 cities that are perfect for NHL teams; Portland, Houston, Kansas City, and Quebec City. 36 teams, 9 per division, keep 16 teams in the playoffs. All the expansion teams have natural rivals (Portland vs Seattle) (Houston vs Dallas) (Kansas City vs Nashville or Chicago) (Quebec City vs Montreal)
I would in favor of the NHL expanding to 36 teams, 9 in each division. Houston, Kansas, Quebec would all be great picks. I would love Saskatchewan to get a team but I know that's unlikely, I'm sure it would probably be another US team. Also I wouldn't want them to expand right away, wait a few years and then say add two teams, wait another few and add the final two.
That part about getting more kids to play hockey (in non-traditional hockey regions) is a great idea except for one thing - hockey for kids requires a level of affluence even for house league. I would agree with stopping expansion. Expansion to Europe? I'd rather see the KHL become a bonified rival to the NHL. I love your idea of a few games in Hamilton and Quebec City. Not putting teams in those cities, sadly you're right.
This would be a good idea if teams could be more rich. What I’m trying to say is some teams struggle and like teams loose money like the 1.0 Jets or the thrashers. Teams loose money then relocate
This reminds me of the touted NHL Europe division proposed in the early 00's before the advent of the KHL. At the time both the Anschutz group and Jokerit ownership owned multiple teams in Europe. The whole idea collapsed when the UK superleague folded and the brand new 02 arena became unviable for a franchise. The NHL (and other sports) often mistakes popularity for international games as proof that franchises could work, unfortunately (especially in Britain with the Wembley NFL games) you get fans of the sport more than fans of teams. A failing franchise for example in London, Berlin or Rome would soon collapse without such universal support. Europe could perhaps instead have an NHL supported farm league like the AHL, with teams supported by an NHL affiliate.
Bettman won't do this, but this should be the footprint moving forward: -get rid of revenue sharing, entry & expansion draft, salary cap, and expansion fees This would force teams like the Coyotes and Senators to actually take things seriously. Teams could now actually take players from their own junior teams. Heck, this could mean OHL or WHL teams could start their own professional teams.
We had severe dilution of talent in the late 90s and early 2000s with the rapid expansion from 21 to 30. That was too fast. The talent pool has recovered now, but if they are going to expand again, they need to do it much more slowly than that.
I think with hockey becoming a thing in Japan/China there will be a lot more talent coming in over time. I can guarantee Seattle won’t be the last expansion team either. Might almost have to have like 2 separate leagues that only play each other in the playoffs? Like how the CHL works with the memorial cup. Or soccer with the however many leagues they have. How many teams are in the NBA, MLB, NFL?
My proposal would kind of be a compromise for those who want both. 36 Teams. End there. Coyotes are moved to Houston, Texas and keep the name. Then Kansas City, Quebec City, Salt Lake City, and Milwaukee get the new teams. A little realignment division and boom your final 36 teams for the foreseeable future.
My worry is with expanding to 40, some of the strong divisions just stay stacked by well run orgs, and lesser teams are benefited from weaker divisions. Atlantic and metro are stacked, adding in 8 more teams is cool, but do you really see them getting rid of the core top teans from each division or just start a new one with more of a mix bag. I dont want a 8 divisions of 5 teams and be left with Pittsburgh, Philly, washington, New york Is and New York Rangers.....
Should do an up an down thing like something in football in Europe. Where teams go up an down depending on wins losses. Where teams at the bottom would be pushed down into the A while the elite teams in the A would get into the big league. I
I’m for expansion if it serves the markets that were original franchises (Hartford, Quebec) before going to cities like Portland or Houston…and please..NO PLAYOFF EXPANSION….EVER!!
I just don't see them stopping now. Not when they still don't have a team in Houston, the 5th-largest metro area in the US, where there is an interested owner in Fertitta and an NHL-ready arena in the Toyota Center. Not when they have NHL-ready arenas in Kansas City and Quebec, though their ownership situations aren't as positive. Not when they can charge another massive expansion fee of....$700 million? $800 million? Maybe if they show enough growth over the next decade of this TV deal, then Team #36 is worth $1 billion. That's not even talking about international expansion.
Exactly. People on here are talking about how the league should stop at 32 teams because that number is "perfect", but in reality the owners don't give two shits about a “perfect number” if it means earning money from expansion fees. The NHL is a business, which is a fact that everyone seems to forget.
I would love the nhl to go to 40 teams at some point in the future but I think one of the biggest issues is the schedule 82 games where you play 39 other teams would be kinda weird but if every division is five teams then teams could play their division 3 times each and other divisions 2 times each
Relegation does not work in Major North American sports in Europe it is more like individual teams in a organized tournament in North America all teams are part of a major league and with four of the top five grossing leagues in the world being in North America I think the Major North American sports leagues like how they do things.
Around 30 teams for all top leagues in North America, baseball, hockey, football, and basketball seems to be the norm. Decent sized metropolitan areas are needed.
An issue with expanding the NHL into Europe is that Europe uses a different sized rink. In order to use existing rinks, modifications would have to be done.
If there is more expansion it's a long way off. I think 32 is just right. As you said what the league needs to do now is solve the problem with the teams that are struggling. I don't know about the western conference but in the east I know of two new NHL ready arenas, one in Quebec and one in Markham, Ontario. These would be great relocation areas for teams struggling in the east and they would be successful here in Canada. I'm sure there must be NHL ready arenas available out west and I do know that Regina, Saskatchewan has started showing interest in getting an NHL franchise.
If they go above 32, I feel they need to do it in pairs (maybe not the exact same year, but within a few years like we got now with Vegas and Seattle)... So like (and these are just examples from the top of my head): - Quebec and Houston - Kansas City and Hamilton Keep the west and the east fairly balanced in terms of amount of teams. And even though I'm a European, having a EU-division would be fun - but I can't see that happening within the near future
Unfortunately the NHL would not do well in Kansas City. Hockey fans are few and far between here. The arena is beautiful and it deserves a team, NHL or NBA. Thanks for using it as the thumbnail😊
If they keep expanding they need to cut out the expansion draft. Teams shuffle their rosters around very carefully in the year preceding the draft to protect more players. Imagine that being a regular thing. It would suck.
I think 36 is the magic number for the NHL, add K.C., Houston, Indianapolis, and a Eastern Canadian team. Europe is interesting, but competing with the KHL for players and sites is a major issue.
Could someone just buy Admirals and lobby them to join NHL? But I don't think Preds wanna lose their AHL affiliation.. And I bet Chicago, Minnesota and Detroit gonna vote against their market there being split like that
If it weren't for political tensions and biases between the leagues, I'd pitch the idea of the Stanley Cup winning team going on to compete in a sort of mini-series with the KHL's playoff winner.
Im all for more teams in all leagues, i'd like to see 60, every market should have a chance to win the title, is an aspect of college sports that i appreciate more than major leagues
I think if they do go to 40 teams, they should switch back to 5 team divisions, add 5 of the biggest Euro markets, and 3 more this side of the pond, this will make cross ocean road trips less time away from home. And it won’t absolutely destroy the European domestic leagues that have provided you with so much talent in the past. If it was me, I’d add Quebec City, Kansas, 1 of either Huston or Hamilton, and my 5 euro Cities would be London, Paris, Munich, Prague and either Milan or one of the Nordic countries major towns.
I really do suspect that, barring another pandemic like catastrophe, we'll see a 36 team league as an inevitability by the end of this decade (meaning one or two more expansions in the 2020s with the others coming down the pike eventually). Either it will be a large European expansion or just 4 more teams in NA. Houston is obvious, and I know that Shannon just talked about the failures of Atlanta franchises but look at the population growth there and think about how much of that is people moving from Hockey markets which just adds to the potential fan base. Add Quebec and Hamilton in Canada or Kansas City if its population continues growing (the Scouts were really unlucky when you look at the population data) and you can see 36 teams fit in North American that can both grow the game and capitalize off of existing markets.
A few critiques 1) A team in Hamilton would almost certainly hurt Buffalo. That's not to say it would kill the franchise, but it would increase competition for the S. Ontario market where Buffalo does a fair bit of business. It would also provide a much more convenient outlet for Leafs fans looking to go to an away game. Again, it isn't fatal but it is a hit. 2) I have no clue what you mean when you talk about the number of picks in the first round. Why does the number matter?
Other sports have already expanded their playoffs. NFL added a game this year and added 2 extra playoff spots last year. NBA now has 4 extra playoff spots for play in games. Baseball added teams last year not sure if their doing it again but they just added the wildcard games the last few years. I can definitely see a 3 or 5 gane play in series for maybe the last 2 spots in each conference.
Having been living in KC for the last 23 years, playing hockey and being a massive hockey fan, this town does NOT deserve an NHL team. We have an ECHL team that has great support but the town and media outlets don't give hockey the time of day. KC was stupid for building a new barn without getting an anchor team first. Teams will use it as a threat to get a new facility built, like Pittsburgh did almost 15 years ago. Grass roots hockey needs to be firmly established before the NHL could even think of KC.
Seeing as the KC ownership group was headed by people who run Sporting KC, I think the NHL grossly underestimated the quality of KC's team. Seeing as they took a franchise that was actively being shopped for relocation, rebranded it, and put it in position to win trophies and have 123 consecutive sellouts in one of the most beautiful facilities in North America. That said, I agree 32 is the right size for the league. And they should be looking at plans to either rebrand/market moribund franchises, or relocate them ~5yrs.
My opinion of the NHL expending, for what its worth. I grew up a fan of the NHL, as any good Canadian would. NHL Hockey in 2021, the NHL has way too many teams. To use PNX as an example, NHL Hockey in Phoenix doesn't work. Yet Bettman does not want to admit it.
Expansion would have to allow for a long season start to finish plus more games on the schedule. And there are teams already unstable in their markets despite profit sharing in the league. Don't see it working in N.A. A European division would be a commercial and logistical nightmare.
If Arizona, Fla or even Ottawa are losing money, KC and QC should be given a crack at it, since they've got the facilities in waiting. Cant change 32/16/8, it's too perfect. But there's room to wiggle a couple teams around without throwing off alignment.
relegation also doesn't work because of the way the draft works. in soccer leagues there is no draft and players simply sign where they want/where they get an offer.
I hope they don't expand any more, 32 is enough. BUT i can see them go up to 36 teams in the long term. Houston / Quebec / possibly another Toronto team (or maybe Hamilton) / maybe Kansas? So that would be 18 in each conference and then 2 divsions of 9 in each conference.
There was a Seatle team a very long time a go that win a Lord Stanley cup and almost win a second one against Montreal Candains. The season ended due to lord Stanley getting sick.
Before 1917, the NHL champ would play the Pacific Hockey League champ for the Stanley Cup. Prior to 1900, Lord Stanley’s trophy was an amateur championship.
I think the NHL is done expanding in North America, I do thing they will start an expansion into Europe the 8 team European NHL is likely going to happen only a question of how they will work it all out and will they have them be part of the regular NHL schedule or will they have their own schedule with a tournament with the North American teams halfway into the season, either way I do expect a European expansion to come next
The idea of playing an 84 game schedule with 2 neutral site games means 32 games across the league at neutral sites. That could be a very viable way to see what cities will support future expansion without having to commit to adding teams. Like, playing 16 of those games every year in Finland, Sweden, Germany, London, Denmark, France, and Italy. If they want to grow international revenues in Europe, that’s a pretty low risk way to do it.
Definitely the room and the need for a franchise in Hamilton. The only thing that will push the leafs to get serious is good competition in the neighborhood.
They had an AHL team but arena conflicts fucked that up. The owner of the houston rockets was wanting to charge them double what they were paying before for rental of the arena.
There are enough (commercially) struggling teams that need to be turned around or moved before we can talk about adding any more
most of the teams struggling are doing do because they don't have proper management in place. Get the right people and place and we see small market teams do better.
Ottawa, Arizona, Florida, Buffalo ?
Wait... is this matt Cooke , formerly of the Pens?
@@MrTheRisingtide in Buffalo fans defense would you support this team?
@@MrTheRisingtide Ottawa and Arizona just needs to move their stadium closer to downtown.. Buffalo is just poorly run, theres support there.. Florida maybe one that is just in a bad area also.. gotta start grass roots!
The playoffs are perfect with 16 teams
Agreed. Never expand the playoffs!
I’d like a top 8 format but 16 is okay
Wouldn't mind seeing a 20 team playoff and having a team have a first round bye to allow conference champions to rest OR..... allow winners of conferences to chose playoff structure in the first round.
@@geoff3103 playoffs are good for business. It draws in more, the cap goes up the talent is showcased better. Don't be mad at Detroits 20+ year playoff run.
It’s too many. 12 would be better
Moving crappy irrelevant teams to better locations > Expansion
Then hockey doesn't expand because places like Arizona
@@crazytomato1089 move arizona
I absolutely love these Business Of Hockey videos you are currently doing! Amazing work Shannon.
Great to see the Enforcer in the comments! Love your vids
Shannon putting in the work today!!
we need hockey in quebec back
Honestly I wouldn't be overly surprised if Arizona moves to Quebec.
Montreal says hi
Hartford before it
You need a billionaire who wants to spend close to 1 billion dollars, ( over half for the team and the rest for the new arena)
They're never gonna get it back unless Ottawa moves there which is still unlikely
I remember football in England in the 1970's where two of the big six, Manchester United and Tottenham were relegated. With relegation you also get promotion. Both Man Utd and Spurs were promoted back to the top league at the first attempt. I think if some of the big spending NHL franchises were relegated in a two tier system they would be back within a season or two. I would be more worried about some of the smaller market teams as they would languish in the lower level only occasionally getting promoted to the big league. Once in the big league they would spend more time in a relegation dogfight than challenging for the cup. The financial gap between the bigger franchises and the smaller ones would grow year on year.
Again, good luck getting ownership to agree to that.
Well that's the point of the lower tier. If the interest isn't there for a team they can go there to fade away and move. Also gives fans of teams something to cheer about accomplishment wise. Coaches too get a goal to work towards. Not to mention the NHLPA would be ecstatic.
Well fighting for not rellegating is much more fun than seeing one and the same team winning the league (looking at you Bayern München).
Can't happen for one more big reason: in Europe we don't have sport college programms and draft. I can't even imagine USA or Canada without that.
THG dude. Why are you not working full time in hockey. I'm serious. Thank you in taking up my point. I'll look around for a Canadians Barber pole jersey you are that sympathetic and knowledgeable.
He is working full time in hockey. Just because he isn't one of the clowns at the hockey networks, doesn't mean that he isn't exactly where he should be.
@@romaliop are you a buddy of his?
@@slytester5636 He's been very open about being able to support himself from his channel. Rightfully so.
@@sevantookmanian hey guys, I’m just new here. It’s just that he speaks of his work or job. I’m now a fan. It’s great that he can. I just believe he deserves more coverage he is so knowledgeable.
I love this league but 82 games is too much, players are beat up and getting hurt which lessons the product over the long season. Not sure what’s a good number of games but each team should at least play each other home/ away from the other conference. Looking forward to next season hopefully w a pandemic that is almost over!! Hockey fans rock!!!
Its 82 games that mean nothing that is the real problem, 75 game or less regular season for playoff order and start the playoffs with 32 teams, give the struggling teams a chance to earn some fans with a upset.
@@smaug1234 dude that is the dumbest plan I have ever fucking heard. No other pro sports league lets every single team make the playoffs lmao. I'm sorry but it will be even more embarrassing that way!
@@JarradBruessel32 why do you have to do what other pro sports leagues do? I am sorry but the idea is to get fans in seats and watching on TV, you are not gonna do that without spectacle, you are not gonna do it doing what everyone else does.
@@smaug1234 who honestly wants to watch their team get their ass handed to them for 4 straight games? Lol. No one. Why would I wanna wat Detroit get their asses kicked by Tampa for 4 games straight? Or why would buffalo wanna play against Colorado for 4 straight games? That would be completely embarrassing. Hell when I was in the MnJHL, all 12 teams from each conference made the playoffs. The st. Louis frontenacs had 1 win all season and were playing the Marquette royals who lead the league in points. St. Louis forfeited the playoffs because what was the fucking point? They don't wanna go all the way to the u.p. to get their asses handed to them for 2 games.
@@smaug1234 the playoffs then lose their spectacle then if everyone makes it. Then teams won't try in the regular season because they aren't fighting for a playoff spot. Then your regular season games lose all meaning. Then whats the point of a regular season? Why don't you just do a round robin tournament and then only play like 8 games then do a bracket off of those results? See how fucking dumb that is? The playoffs are supposed to mean something! You let everyone make the playoffs then no person will look at the NHL as a serious league. It will become a joke.
Hamilton makes up at least 1/4 of Buffalo's ticket sales... it's way cheaper to watch a game in Buffalo then Toronto... the reason Betman refuses a team in Hamilton has NOTHING to do with TO and everything to do with Buffalo... remember when they even refused Blackberry's owner from moving a dead team (Phoenix I believe) to Hamilton... and he was willing to give almost anything to make it happen!
Hamilton to TO is basically the same distance as Ottawa to Montreal and the same zero loss to Montreal/TO ticket sales.
I think Nashville is the team that almost moved to Hamilton. And if I'm not mistaken it's because the would be buyer (guy from blackberry) was basically trying to jump the gun and assumed it was a done deal, and already started planning a move to Hamilton before he even bought the team. The NHL board needs to meet about those things and he didn't even submit an application to have it discussed. I'm sure there's some way more complicated stuff in there that I don't understand but that's the gist of it.
@@KevynKing Pittsburgh was his first attempt to buy a team... Nashville was his second... Phoenix was his 3rd attempt and was the only one with a condition that he'd get to move the team to southern Ontario... just looked it up... didn't even know he tried to buy Pittsburgh from Mario... wowsers.
@@KevynKing Blackberry attempted to purchase and move Pittsburgh, Nashville, and Phoenix, none happened
For:
$1 billion dollar asking price for the 33rd team.
Against:
32 feels like the perfect number
mathematically and logically 32 is the best number
Owners don't care about a "perfect number" and will take the money every day of the week.
@@CTBGoomba yea I don't disagree. Doesn't stop 32 from being the perfect number
You could make 36 work pretty well.
@@chefz2749 not really
I'm all in for Halifax having an NHL team , after all it's where the game was invented .... and what a market for that city , 3 provinces for a fan base , New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and PEI .
Canadian dollar
@@OfficialChrisW 47 Billionaires in Canada , including the richest family in Canada , the Irving brothers of St John NB .
@@tomjones2121 Lmao let's see them bring those fortunes to the US 📉
I'd like to see one in NB and NS....
Love seeing cats on every video!
I mean that is the real reason people watch RUclips videos right!
I live in downtown Kansas City and it is rapidly expanding and a very attractive spot for expats around North America. I think the NHL in KC would be a huge success.
This isn’t entirely related but you talking about European expansion got me thinking about it.
What are your thoughts on the Super Series from the 70s to early 90s. Would you want to see the NHL and KHL bring them back? I never got to see any, but it seems like a pretty cool concept having the two top hockey leagues in the world play each other.
That would be so much fun, it would be like the Olympics on steroids. The 4th line would still be absolute all-stars.
I'd say wait 10 years then maybe explore the European division idea, and North American cities that want teams can have relocated teams
If pro-rel system is implemented in the NHL and NBA, it will be an ultimate killer for small market teams and struggling teams. Imagine a team like say the Arizona Coyotes or the New Orleans Pelicans - would any free agent even consider join these teams if they're in their respective second tiers of the NHL and NBA? I'm pretty sure that Zion Wiliamson won't want to spend his NBA career in a NBA2 team. I think 32 is the optimal number of teams in the NHL (I think the NBA should also expand to 32 teams, but I don't think it will happen until the TV deal ends in 2026 I guess)
Top hockey leagues around the world should organize a tournament every 4 years in which the top teams of each league compete against one another for a world title! For example, the top 4 teams of the top 4 leagues in the world make it to the world title! Simply add up regilar season points over the 4 years period to get the top 4 teams of each league
No other team would be able to compete with the NHL team
What about NHL, KHL, European, and perhaps world junior team tournament champions?
@@slytester5636 I like the idea! But I think it would be unfair for the Junior teams, unfortunately! Boys vs men would be too hard! NHL, KHL, SHL and Liiga were my picks! But I'm open to more suggestions
I’d love to see the current pre panini divisions with an added team in Portland (Pacific) Kansas City (Central) Québec City (Atlantic) Cleveland (Metropolitan)
Houston gets a team someday
Best hockey channel on UTube. Concise, unbiased and thoughtful commentary. You come across as a fan giving info not as an “expert” giving their opinion as fact.
If we had stayed at 21, I don't we would've seen players like Brayden Point, or as many surprise "Caufield-esque" runs. Assuming the same talent pools over the years, how far down the depth chart do you think a guy like Point would be with 21 NHL/Ahl/etc teams, and for how long? + the development teams get worse the further down you go
I am thankful that overall seems like people aren’t worried about Seattle as a market the way they were with Vegas. We have had WHL teams here for decades and it will be nice to all rally together around our regional team instead of adopting a different one.
Should expand into Canada but they won’t we got enough USA teams
Quebec City should get one. The problem is if you're looking for a new market, the primary player base for the draft and development is already in a lot of the larger cities like Halifax, London, Oshawa, Hamilton, etc, so if you expand to one of those, will that take away from the local CHL teams or bring in more revenue? I would hope it brings in more, but it could go both ways.
@@jacksonsandell1625 Bring in more money. Canadians love hockey and can bring in huge amounts of money for the nhl.
@@zjean3417 except none of the owners can afford it and they wanna get more fans not keep with the same existing fan base. You already watch hockey don't you? Then you aren't the target. The targets are new fans. You need to bring in more viewers. People who watch hockey already aren't going to bring in more money to the league. You can only expand your business by expanding into new markets.
I wouldn't mind 34 nhl teams to be honest I would love to see Quebec and Hartford return
👍👍👍
Everyone gets hung up on Hartford because of the nostalgia. But it’s a terrible market for sports for its own team with the dominance that is New York & Boston sports. I’d prefer a team in Halifax over Hartford, that’d be pretty neat.
@@MisterMike95 If the economy were doing better in New England, I actually would’ve envision the Whalers coming back, either as an expansion or relocation. (Would not be Carolina.) Hockey is doable in any cold weather market.
I don't understand how the St. Louis metro has more population than a lot of cities including Vegas yet St. Louis only has the NHL and MLB. Its bizarre to me the way sports markets work.
Bettman : 🤑💰
Really interesting points both ways! Great videos as always!
Stopping at 32 is best for today, but in 20 years from now I imagine more teams would be ideal. Cities get bigger as time goes on, which increases the chance of success for an expansion team.
KHL doesn't have a foothold in most of Europe lol
@@aliceliska
Sure, but that doesn't mean foothold.
@@aliceliska Its the best league in Europe but I doubt people outside of russia watches KHL because Sweden, Finland, Germany and more has their own leagues
There are a few KHL teams in the eastern half of Europe (outside of Russia), including Finland's Jokerit (where Selanne began his career!), Dinamo Riga in Latvia, and HC Dinamo Minsk in Belarus. I get that there may be an audience for KHL hockey in Finland, but I think it's less popular in Sweden and Germany.
@@DialHoang Less popular?
i know almost nobody who watches KHL.
Same goes for NHL to be honest.
People watch DEL and Bundesliga (both football and Handball).
And thats it.
@@DialHoang Jokerit are reported to be having a problem economically in KHL. Leaving ones rivalries behind to play a bunch of new teams is a really bad idea economically.
I want the league to expand further, but they should definitely wait a long time before doing it. Support the existing teams and either relocate them or help them succeed in their current markets. However, in a somewhat distant future, if the league is bringing in consistent profit and the game is growing and becoming more popular, along with a better economy in both the US and Canada, then there are several markets (Houston, Kansas City, Quebec City, Hamilton would be my four) that could be able to support teams, which in turn could continue to support the game.
I know 4 cities that are perfect for NHL teams; Portland, Houston, Kansas City, and Quebec City. 36 teams, 9 per division, keep 16 teams in the playoffs. All the expansion teams have natural rivals (Portland vs Seattle) (Houston vs Dallas) (Kansas City vs Nashville or Chicago) (Quebec City vs Montreal)
If you had 21 teams you’d have had another WHA (or 2)
I would in favor of the NHL expanding to 36 teams, 9 in each division. Houston, Kansas, Quebec would all be great picks. I would love Saskatchewan to get a team but I know that's unlikely, I'm sure it would probably be another US team. Also I wouldn't want them to expand right away, wait a few years and then say add two teams, wait another few and add the final two.
id love to see Indianapolis with a team honestly, could have the battle of I-70 with CBJ and the battle of I-65 with Chicago.
That part about getting more kids to play hockey (in non-traditional hockey regions) is a great idea except for one thing - hockey for kids requires a level of affluence even for house league.
I would agree with stopping expansion. Expansion to Europe? I'd rather see the KHL become a bonified rival to the NHL.
I love your idea of a few games in Hamilton and Quebec City. Not putting teams in those cities, sadly you're right.
This would be a good idea if teams could be more rich. What I’m trying to say is some teams struggle and like teams loose money like the 1.0 Jets or the thrashers. Teams loose money then relocate
This reminds me of the touted NHL Europe division proposed in the early 00's before the advent of the KHL.
At the time both the Anschutz group and Jokerit ownership owned multiple teams in Europe. The whole idea collapsed when the UK superleague folded and the brand new 02 arena became unviable for a franchise.
The NHL (and other sports) often mistakes popularity for international games as proof that franchises could work, unfortunately (especially in Britain with the Wembley NFL games) you get fans of the sport more than fans of teams. A failing franchise for example in London, Berlin or Rome would soon collapse without such universal support.
Europe could perhaps instead have an NHL supported farm league like the AHL, with teams supported by an NHL affiliate.
Bettman won't do this, but this should be the footprint moving forward:
-get rid of revenue sharing, entry & expansion draft, salary cap, and expansion fees
This would force teams like the Coyotes and Senators to actually take things seriously. Teams could now actually take players from their own junior teams. Heck, this could mean OHL or WHL teams could start their own professional teams.
Let's dilute the talent around the league. Yay.
Canada needs another team. Quebec City is the place!
We had severe dilution of talent in the late 90s and early 2000s with the rapid expansion from 21 to 30. That was too fast. The talent pool has recovered now, but if they are going to expand again, they need to do it much more slowly than that.
@@dixonhill1108 It wasn't exactly a flood, and we are talking about 10 years after that.
I think with hockey becoming a thing in Japan/China there will be a lot more talent coming in over time. I can guarantee Seattle won’t be the last expansion team either. Might almost have to have like 2 separate leagues that only play each other in the playoffs? Like how the CHL works with the memorial cup. Or soccer with the however many leagues they have. How many teams are in the NBA, MLB, NFL?
My proposal would kind of be a compromise for those who want both. 36 Teams. End there. Coyotes are moved to Houston, Texas and keep the name. Then Kansas City, Quebec City, Salt Lake City, and Milwaukee get the new teams. A little realignment division and boom your final 36 teams for the foreseeable future.
I actually want more teams in the league. I think it makes the sport more interesting and makes wining the Stanley Cup all the more impressive.
My worry is with expanding to 40, some of the strong divisions just stay stacked by well run orgs, and lesser teams are benefited from weaker divisions.
Atlantic and metro are stacked, adding in 8 more teams is cool, but do you really see them getting rid of the core top teans from each division or just start a new one with more of a mix bag.
I dont want a 8 divisions of 5 teams and be left with Pittsburgh, Philly, washington, New york Is and New York Rangers.....
8 team euro division would be sick. I also liked the Canadian only divisin too tho
It’s time for Atlanta to have a team!…again.
Should do an up an down thing like something in football in Europe.
Where teams go up an down depending on wins losses.
Where teams at the bottom would be pushed down into the A while the elite teams in the A would get into the big league.
I
I’m for expansion if it serves the markets that were original franchises (Hartford, Quebec) before going to cities like Portland or Houston…and please..NO PLAYOFF EXPANSION….EVER!!
Let’s do 60 NHL teams man
Let’s do 200 lmao
fuck it. march madness playoffs
I just don't see them stopping now. Not when they still don't have a team in Houston, the 5th-largest metro area in the US, where there is an interested owner in Fertitta and an NHL-ready arena in the Toyota Center. Not when they have NHL-ready arenas in Kansas City and Quebec, though their ownership situations aren't as positive. Not when they can charge another massive expansion fee of....$700 million? $800 million? Maybe if they show enough growth over the next decade of this TV deal, then Team #36 is worth $1 billion. That's not even talking about international expansion.
Exactly. People on here are talking about how the league should stop at 32 teams because that number is "perfect", but in reality the owners don't give two shits about a “perfect number” if it means earning money from expansion fees. The NHL is a business, which is a fact that everyone seems to forget.
Milwaukee, salt lake city, portland Oregon ,second team in Toronto & Quebec city.
I would love the nhl to go to 40 teams at some point in the future but I think one of the biggest issues is the schedule 82 games where you play 39 other teams would be kinda weird but if every division is five teams then teams could play their division 3 times each and other divisions 2 times each
Relegation does not work in Major North American sports in Europe it is more like individual teams in a organized tournament in North America all teams are part of a major league and with four of the top five grossing leagues in the world being in North America I think the Major North American sports leagues like how they do things.
Around 30 teams for all top leagues in North America, baseball, hockey, football, and basketball seems to be the norm. Decent sized metropolitan areas are needed.
An issue with expanding the NHL into Europe is that Europe uses a different sized rink. In order to use existing rinks, modifications would have to be done.
If there is more expansion it's a long way off. I think 32 is just right. As you said what the league needs to do now is solve the problem with the teams that are struggling. I don't know about the western conference but in the east I know of two new NHL ready arenas, one in Quebec and one in Markham, Ontario. These would be great relocation areas for teams struggling in the east and they would be successful here in Canada. I'm sure there must be NHL ready arenas available out west and I do know that Regina, Saskatchewan has started showing interest in getting an NHL franchise.
2 teams need to relocate. Florida and Arizona. Florida moves to Saskatchewan, Canada. Arizona moves to Houston, Texas.
Saskatchewan isn't practical. Small market, too isolated, too cold in the winter for travelling, and doesn't do anything to grow the game.
If they go above 32, I feel they need to do it in pairs (maybe not the exact same year, but within a few years like we got now with Vegas and Seattle)... So like (and these are just examples from the top of my head):
- Quebec and Houston
- Kansas City and Hamilton
Keep the west and the east fairly balanced in terms of amount of teams. And even though I'm a European, having a EU-division would be fun - but I can't see that happening within the near future
Unfortunately the NHL would not do well in Kansas City. Hockey fans are few and far between here. The arena is beautiful and it deserves a team, NHL or NBA. Thanks for using it as the thumbnail😊
If they keep expanding they need to cut out the expansion draft. Teams shuffle their rosters around very carefully in the year preceding the draft to protect more players. Imagine that being a regular thing. It would suck.
How about a small tournament of 3 games for positions 7 and 8 between 7,8,9,10 positions before starting the playoffs?
I think 36 is the magic number for the NHL, add K.C., Houston, Indianapolis, and a Eastern Canadian team. Europe is interesting, but competing with the KHL for players and sites is a major issue.
Wisconsin needs a team, as big as hockey is here during the winter make me sad that we don’t
Could someone just buy Admirals and lobby them to join NHL?
But I don't think Preds wanna lose their AHL affiliation..
And I bet Chicago, Minnesota and Detroit gonna vote against their market there being split like that
If it weren't for political tensions and biases between the leagues, I'd pitch the idea of the Stanley Cup winning team going on to compete in a sort of mini-series with the KHL's playoff winner.
Im all for more teams in all leagues, i'd like to see 60, every market should have a chance to win the title, is an aspect of college sports that i appreciate more than major leagues
I think if they do go to 40 teams, they should switch back to 5 team divisions, add 5 of the biggest Euro markets, and 3 more this side of the pond, this will make cross ocean road trips less time away from home. And it won’t absolutely destroy the European domestic leagues that have provided you with so much talent in the past.
If it was me, I’d add Quebec City, Kansas, 1 of either Huston or Hamilton, and my 5 euro Cities would be London, Paris, Munich, Prague and either Milan or one of the Nordic countries major towns.
You guys don't have Seattle jersey's available yet? In Australia they've been on sale since almost the beginning of the year, that's quite odd
I would LOVE to see Atlanta have a brand new NHL team again.
The regular season should be shortened to the minimum contract. Stanley cup presentation earlier in the summer please
Then the league loses money on the tv contracts
I really do suspect that, barring another pandemic like catastrophe, we'll see a 36 team league as an inevitability by the end of this decade (meaning one or two more expansions in the 2020s with the others coming down the pike eventually). Either it will be a large European expansion or just 4 more teams in NA. Houston is obvious, and I know that Shannon just talked about the failures of Atlanta franchises but look at the population growth there and think about how much of that is people moving from Hockey markets which just adds to the potential fan base. Add Quebec and Hamilton in Canada or Kansas City if its population continues growing (the Scouts were really unlucky when you look at the population data) and you can see 36 teams fit in North American that can both grow the game and capitalize off of existing markets.
A few critiques
1) A team in Hamilton would almost certainly hurt Buffalo. That's not to say it would kill the franchise, but it would increase competition for the S. Ontario market where Buffalo does a fair bit of business. It would also provide a much more convenient outlet for Leafs fans looking to go to an away game. Again, it isn't fatal but it is a hit.
2) I have no clue what you mean when you talk about the number of picks in the first round. Why does the number matter?
Does Bettman retire now that Seattle is in? New TV deal is done...seems like an obvious time to back away.
Other sports have already expanded their playoffs. NFL added a game this year and added 2 extra playoff spots last year. NBA now has 4 extra playoff spots for play in games. Baseball added teams last year not sure if their doing it again but they just added the wildcard games the last few years. I can definitely see a 3 or 5 gane play in series for maybe the last 2 spots in each conference.
I thought the nba was temporary
Shannon making a Ren and Stimpy reference in 2021 is outstanding.
Having been living in KC for the last 23 years, playing hockey and being a massive hockey fan, this town does NOT deserve an NHL team. We have an ECHL team that has great support but the town and media outlets don't give hockey the time of day. KC was stupid for building a new barn without getting an anchor team first. Teams will use it as a threat to get a new facility built, like Pittsburgh did almost 15 years ago. Grass roots hockey needs to be firmly established before the NHL could even think of KC.
Seeing as the KC ownership group was headed by people who run Sporting KC, I think the NHL grossly underestimated the quality of KC's team. Seeing as they took a franchise that was actively being shopped for relocation, rebranded it, and put it in position to win trophies and have 123 consecutive sellouts in one of the most beautiful facilities in North America.
That said, I agree 32 is the right size for the league. And they should be looking at plans to either rebrand/market moribund franchises, or relocate them ~5yrs.
I also agree with 32 , but for fun if we went to 36 I would want
Metro - Atlanta
Atlantic - New Orleans
Central - Kansas City
West - Salt Lake City
My opinion of the NHL expending, for what its worth. I grew up a fan of the NHL, as any good Canadian would. NHL Hockey in 2021, the NHL has way too many teams. To use PNX as an example, NHL Hockey in Phoenix doesn't work. Yet Bettman does not want to admit it.
Expansion would have to allow for a long season start to finish plus more games on the schedule. And there are teams already unstable in their markets despite profit sharing in the league. Don't see it working in N.A. A European division would be a commercial and logistical nightmare.
If Arizona, Fla or even Ottawa are losing money, KC and QC should be given a crack at it, since they've got the facilities in waiting.
Cant change 32/16/8, it's too perfect. But there's room to wiggle a couple teams around without throwing off alignment.
Relegation? Doesn't work for season ticket holders.
relegation also doesn't work because of the way the draft works. in soccer leagues there is no draft and players simply sign where they want/where they get an offer.
I agree 32 is big enough. To many teams before the pendemic where losing money or barley breaking even.
Saskatchewan population - 1,200,000
Saskatoon population - 250,000
Regina population - 220,000
In 1938 English Montreal was promised our team back after the Depression, we're still waiting!! ABC anybody but Canadiens.
Bring back the Maroons....that way, Toronto would have two main rivals..
Shannon, Just curious if you know the real story behind the last minute withdrawal from expansion by the Milwaukee ownership group in the 1990's?
I'm still wondering how they are going to make schedule work with 32 teams. Naturally it's 84 games, but NHL for some reasons wants 82.
It’s 1/2 a baseball season +1...baseball can be played daily...hockey occasionally is played on back-2-back nights, but never 3 nights in a row.
Atlanta Thrashers and Atlanta Flames, who will both relocate to Saskatoon and Quebec City the following season
I hope they don't expand any more, 32 is enough. BUT i can see them go up to 36 teams in the long term. Houston / Quebec / possibly another Toronto team (or maybe Hamilton) / maybe Kansas? So that would be 18 in each conference and then 2 divsions of 9 in each conference.
There was a Seatle team a very long time a go that win a Lord Stanley cup and almost win a second one against Montreal Candains. The season ended due to lord Stanley getting sick.
Before 1917, the NHL champ would play the Pacific Hockey League champ for the Stanley Cup. Prior to 1900, Lord Stanley’s trophy was an amateur championship.
I think the NHL is done expanding in North America, I do thing they will start an expansion into Europe the 8 team European NHL is likely going to happen only a question of how they will work it all out and will they have them be part of the regular NHL schedule or will they have their own schedule with a tournament with the North American teams halfway into the season, either way I do expect a European expansion to come next
Good points Shannon.
r.i.p. kivlenieks
The idea of playing an 84 game schedule with 2 neutral site games means 32 games across the league at neutral sites. That could be a very viable way to see what cities will support future expansion without having to commit to adding teams. Like, playing 16 of those games every year in Finland, Sweden, Germany, London, Denmark, France, and Italy. If they want to grow international revenues in Europe, that’s a pretty low risk way to do it.
question, Shannon just said about if you expand by 1 you kinda need to expand by 4.
so what 4 do people want to see?
I personally would like to see the NHL bring back the Quebec Nordiques, I miss those games between them and the Canadiens.
Definitely the room and the need for a franchise in Hamilton. The only thing that will push the leafs to get serious is good competition in the neighborhood.
Surprised Houston does not have a team they where big supporters of the Aeros of the WHA not to mention its a big market city
They had an AHL team but arena conflicts fucked that up. The owner of the houston rockets was wanting to charge them double what they were paying before for rental of the arena.
I work overnights, would love if games were played after midnight