I’m not a massive Shane defender but to be fair, he did actually try to sacrifice himself at the school so that Otis could get away first. This was shortly after he’d injured his leg. Otis refused to leave him behind, and since he knew Otis wouldn’t let him sacrifice himself, he made the decision to sacrifice Otis instead. I don’t believe this was selfish at all, I believe it was purely to save Carl.
It’s one thing to let Otis die to save Carl it’s another thing entirely to use your last bullet on Otis to save yourself. If the walker would’ve gotten Otis while they were trying to get away then fine leave him, not much he could’ve done at that point but shooting Otis and leaving him for the walkers??? If it was the right choice, why lie about it to the others? Why hide it? Because it was wrong and Shane knew it and still did it anyway.
@@jamesswedan6490well, because like the above person said Otis refused to leave Shane behind Each person was carrying a backpack full of medical equipment needed to save Carl at that point. At their pace with Shane's leg and Otis' refusal to leave Shane behind the walkers would have caught up with them eventually and a few outcomes would have happened. 1. The walkers catch up to one of them. They get caught/bit and one half of the needed medical equipment is gone due to them both having a backpack each. (Carl dies) 2. If Shane is caught and bit, Otis would try to save Shane and then both backpacks are gone. (Carl dies) 3. If scenario 2 happens. The group at the farm has no idea what has happened (they can assume they failed). They would then send out another group to the Fema spot. Possibly Daryl,Glenn. Doesn't really matter. It would put even more members at risk. They may recover the medical equipment but it would not be in time (Carl dies) From a logical thought process in a do or die situation. Someone HAS to get BOTH backpacks of medical equipment to the Farm to save Carl. Otis would refuse to leave Shane behind so Shane has to shoot Otis to take backpack as he would not give it up willingly. As that means losing one of them. Shoot him in the head and risk the walkers just going past Otis or shoot him in the leg and have the noise attract the walkers and assure Shane gets away and gets the medical supplies to Carl who he feels like a son to him at this point? Not justifying it just saying there is some logic behind it
@@jamesswedan6490 I’m not necessarily saying it was the moral thing to do. I’m just saying he had valid reasons to do it & they weren’t selfish. Shane tried to sacrifice himself first so that Otis could get the supplies to Carl. Otis refused to leave him behind, and that’s when Shane realised that Otis would have allowed them both to die rather than compromising his morals. This however would have meant that Carl would also die. What Shane did wasn’t for himself, otherwise he would never have offered to sacrifice himself first. It was purely about saving Carl.
That would have been PEAK. But it also would have robbed us of one of the best characters in the whole show because seeing Shane’s villain arc play out is a big reason the show was so successful so early on
@@theohuntt Well, with some good writing, we can have both! At the final confrontation, instead of Shane and Rick fighting to the Death, have Shane have an epifiny and run off there, leaving his arc mostly intact, and saving him for later!
@@Jenna-hu7mp i feel like shane's ending and how it went was necessary for his character, he couldn't live with himself so sacrificing himself to bait rick into killing him and finally become strong for carl and lori is definitely something shane needed to do to complete his character arc, because i always viewed shane as a tragic character who was going insane due to the apocalypse/emotional abuse of lori and the killing of otis so him baiting rick to toughen him up definitely is something shane would have done everytime, i never saw shane as a evil or a bad guy, i just saw him as a dude who did bad things however those bad things he did were ultimately the fault of his situation
sadly they can´t put the scene where his gun was unloaded because at the moment where Rick stabbed him, Shane gave a Shoot out of the weapon so the Weapon was indeed loaded...
@@theohunttno it was 100% Shane's. neither of them had their finger on the revolver's trigger whereas Shane's finger was on the glock. Also the lighting from the shot shone on Rick's back where Shane's hand with the gun was after Rick plunged him with the knife where Rick's Colt was at Shane's hip in his other hand pointing the ground. Shane's gun being unloaded was just a theory at the end of the day.
Shane was just the first one to realize that during an apocalypse, there is no true good or evil. There may be wrong and less wrong, but people have to do terrible things to survive.
There's a limit. You can't just do whatever. Shane would have led the group to death, sacrificing any and all of them at any time. Right and wrong do not go out the window in a crisis, the calculus just changes. If you don't keep your morality you end up like the cannibals at Terminus, or with Negan's reign of terror. Survival doesn't require abandoning morality; it's the opposite. The only way humanity survives is by holding on to it.
Exactly, people don't seem to grasp that just having a good heart won't necessarily make a good leader in an apocalypse. Gotta be more ruthless than Shane, the Gov and Negan if necessary
Shane looked out for himself above everyone else. Even to the point of loving on Lori, who was dealing with losing her husband. She fell for shane as a way of her dealing with the loss. A bad, but understandable decision. But shane clearly stated he was into Lori for a long time. He was also a future abuser, if he lived on past season 2, as we got a reference to that at the CDC in season 1. And in Nebraska we got word that the base on the western side of Georgia, just a few miles from a huge college campus in Alabama was overrun. What would Shane have done had the group continued going there? Who would have met their fate? Shane tried to make himself out to be the only person anyone could trust in an apocalypse. He's good until you get to know him. P.S. what gave Shane the right to count how many times he helped vs Rick, when it comes to Rick's family? He only knows what he saw (which was very little). And he was saying he was a better person, which he knows he is not.
Truth's nailed 🎯. Up to that point , I was 50/50 when it comes to Shane's reasoning and impulsive behaviour, but trying to rationalised his BS to Lori on how many times he's saved her and Carl with numbers? And trying to make Rick , his supposed best friend, looked like an incompetent loser to Rick's wife?. That's when I saw Shane's true colours, that he was always a selfish, vindictive and dodgy individual. By then , I knew he would always be a liability to the group.
I always hated that scene in Season 1 where Shane points his shotgun at Rick while they are in the forest. I might be biased, but to me it feels like a flaw in that season because it happens too early. The very notion of shooting Rick shouldn't remotely cross Shane's mind until somewhere in the latter half of Season 2. When Rick shows up at the camp in Season 1 Shane should be feeling elated, surprised, shocked, and GUILTY, wanting to hide. Ashamed of how bad this looks despite knowing truthfully that he did his best to save Rick and his family and told a probable white lie for the greater good of Lori and Carl. I don't know if I commented this on your channel or Captain Gold, but I think a fascinating scenario to ponder is how differently things might be if Rick was never shot. This way Rick and Shane never have this conflict with a love triangle between them and Lori. Both friends being together to witness the end of the world they could both adapt at roughly the same rate. Maybe Shane see's the brutal reality a bit faster, but Rick is not far behind, both close enough to stay on the same page and support one another.
Yeah that’s such a good point it feels so out of place as there isn’t any real tension between the two of them at this point I agree it was out of character and the writers should have waited until season 2 for scenes like that
Yes, he was a good person who became more and more unstable as he got: - gaslit by Lori refusing multiple times to have any sort of rational discussion, instead choosing to cast him out and even try to forbid him to interact with Carl, all to then tell him to stay, then flip-flop constantly on whether Shane was a threat or not, should leave or not - fed up with Rick being a goody-two-shoes who was incapable of making the tough calls unless his back was to the wall. Rick only drew his gun in the bar because they were 100% going to attack, but in the following scene he took the 1% chance that the group wouldn't immediately shoot at them for killing their friends, and he made the stupidest decision of losing their ambush advantage and trying to talk things out, that's the kind of naivete that plagued Rick He tried many times to make things right, but circumstances kept forcing him to stay around and have to endure the bad decisions of others, and he eventually snapped. I can hardly blame him for that.
@@theohunttIt's massively ignoring the context. They had been having regular consensual sex for weeks, she had been acting incredibly irrational and Shane was wasted and stopped as soon as she fought him. You're making it seem like he ambushed a random stranger, and once again, it never would have happened if Lori was able to react like a sane human being. They were basically a couple, and she in an instant sent him away and refused to hear anything he had to say, so since she wasn't listening to words, Shane attempted to convince her through sex as that was part of their bond. It's not good behavior, but neither is Lori's, and it's far from the worst thing Shane has done. It's more telling of your heavily modern feminist viewpoint than anything else that you think of that scene with such intense emotions.
@@dwight3555 imo SA is SA there’s no excuse for it and it does make you a bad person you can’t just go up to your ex and SA th because at one point in time it was consensual
@@theohuntt It's a loaded term to use in that context. The relationship "ended" barely a few days before and she couldn't even make things clear with him other than giving him complete whiplash by denigrating all the good he'd done for her and Carl and treating him horribly. You're making the scene far worse than it is because it affects your personal morals, it's not an objective reading. Lori made a billion mistakes, Shane made one mistake in return, and he stopped when she pushed him back with force. She refused to hear his words, so he tried to convince her with acts, it was a bad decision but she was the one who put him in this corner, and it makes her an absolute hypocrite as the series starts with Rick talking to Shane about how Lori constantly berates him for not speaking enough/having constructive dialogue with her, when she's just as incapable of it.
@ Shane makes far more than one mistake. He hits Carol, tries to kill Rick, sleeps with ricks wife and kills Otis. Again no matter what you right trying to play down the SA incident in the CDC it’s not going to change my mind lol your entitled to your opinion, but that’s mine and for me it’s wrong end of the
I thought the reason he shaves his hair off was because Otis rips some of his hair out while they are fighting after Shane shoots him in the leg? I never thought of it being out of remorse or shedding his old self
I really think that lori played a big role in shanes growing hate, She treated him like the biggest asshole once rick came back, she treated him so unfairly i really hated lori for that so much
The issue with Shane wanting to give up the search for Sophia after 72 hours is that he's only "right" from the perspective of a cop. That's not supposed to be his relationship to Sophia, and it's in contrast to Rick who did take responsibility for protecting her. She's part of the family/tribe they're establishing, not some stranger, and you don't give up on family after 72 hours. If he's not willing to go longer than police procedure to look for a member of their group, then he's not genuinely invested on the survival of that group and not capable of leading or protecting them. His one and only interest was in protecting Lori and Carl, to the detriment of everyone else, and he would have abandoned or killed every last one of them until finally leading a weakened and diminished group to their death. Either that or he would have become a henchman for a tyrant like the Governor or Negan. He wasn't a good person.
That’s actually a really good point! I like the fact you described them as their own little tribe. I agree with you Shane probably should have been less keen to give up the search
My problem with Shane started when he asked Rick in the car how Lori was. Not, how are you and Lori doing, but specifically her. It just got worse from there. He undermined Rick's every single decision whether it was good or bad. When he SA'd Lori that was the final straw, nothing I mean nothing could make him a good person in my eyes anymore. To me it's just not something you can easily come back from. Otis was the least offensible thing he did lol so I find it funny that's what everyone fights about.
@@NarimKhan-j8sSA isnt exclusively defined by r*pe, he absolutely SA’d her. Even an attempt is still traumatizing as you could see Loris response after he left. Nothing Shane did after that could get any worse in my opinion, or it simply didnt surprise me.
The real reason that drove Shane to try to kill Rick was Rick’s leadership. Rick literally brought walkers on the farm and a man that attempted to kill himself, Glenn and Herschel just too bandage him up and send him to his own people just for them to come to the farm and kill everybody, all just to honor Dale. It’s fair to say if Shane wouldn’t have went “insane” as you say and killed Randle he would have brought his men back to the farm. Rick had to be stopped. And making horrible choices risking lives under Rick living in a delusion like Sophia still being alive after weeks is what drove Shane insane.
I more so view Shane’s attempt to kill rick as a test, he knew he couldn’t live with himself and thought rick couldn't make the hard decisions, so he gets rick onto the field, and literally tells rick to raise his gun, to defend coral and lori, to make the hard decision, him attempting to kill rick doesn’t make sense to me because he couldn’t even live with the killing of otis, him killing rick would have been 10 times worse, also the fact that shane is actively trying to bait rick into killing him, putting his gun away and telling rick to raise his gun, and also jon's statement, while its true the scene of shane having his gun unloaded wasn’t acted upon, he still said there was that flavor of intent in that scene, and i think he knows more about shane's intentions that anyone else, i think thats all suggesting that shane didn’t do it to kill rick, it was a test to see if rick would do what it takes, when rick approaches him he thinks rick can't do it and knows he can't as well, thats why in the scene we can see him hesitate/make a clear sad facial expression, after rick stabs him he looks at the knife and at rick as in shock that he could actually do it, thats my view atleast
The only good thing I saw that Shane did was tell Otis to take the bags. Then shane switched, real fast, and decided he wanted to be a hero, (so screw otis).
Governor is another one that can be defended. He lost himself after penny got bit. Not only that, but once he leaves Woodbury, he meets the family in the apartment which Meghan is part of. For a while he connects with the little girl but then she gets bit, which is basically like watching the penny situation repeat itself. Really have to feel somewhat bad for the dude, I mean he tried to redeem himself but just ended up loosing a loved one again.
Have you read the governor book or know his backstory, he literally lost himself and became a different person, he became his older brother took his name and everything
He was a guy who meant well but got consumed by his demons. Under slightly different circumstances he could very well have either stayed a protagonist or even had been THE protagonist. The fact that his decent into hell was paved with arguably good intentions , that the character boils over when frustrated makes him feel very real, perhaps the most authentic portrayal of how the average person my react under that sort of crisis.
Okay making this comment to cement my opinion about this before I watch, no Shane was not a good person by his death in my opinion. Even the glimpses we see to his character pre-apocalypse where he loves Lori and secretly waits for her is questionable. I know he believed Rick dead but allowing yourself to lust for your best friends wife feels weird to me. Then his slow break down once he's exposed to a greater position of power than the one he held already as a police officer I think really gave avenues for his ego to come out in bad ways. Then the whole situation with Otis was truly tragic and evil. A true hero would've given Otis the chance to prove himself through sacrifice to save Carl. I believe that had they worked together, they could've found a solution and both lived while getting the supplies. I also think they did Otis the way they did in the show to help audience see how far Shane had gone over the deep in with his "for the greater good" mentality.
Otis clearly made it clear that he wasn't leaving himself OR shane behind, meaning otis wouldn’t sacrifice himself nor would he allow shane to, even if he would have, the walkers were gaining up on them while they both had sprained ankles and lots of gear on with still a pretty long distance to the car while they were also tripping on flat ground taking seconds to get up, it would be foolish for shane to just wait for otis to maybe sacrifice himself, it wasn't evil, it was a necessity that needed to be done to ensure carl's survival, you can call it tragic but shane isn't evil for doing it
When I watched the first few eps, the first time, I was barely paying attention. Then I took time and watched. Shane was a dog from the get go. He did a couple of 'good' things, which made some like him. But on second view you realize Shane bs'd his way into getting credit for much.
@skv1345 That's just my personal take, I haven't watched that episode except for clips in a bit so I see what you mean. I think he had it in him to volunteer I mean he was brave enough to go in the first place knowing the place was overrun, and with Carl's life being on the line my view is he might have been able to be convinced to sacrifice himself, or more likely just try to make them both survive. I think it's evil Shane made the choice for him and murdered him.
In my opinion if Lori had gotten unsubscribed from life during the outbreak and Carl was left with shane and then gotten reunited with Rick I think things would have been greatly different but that's just me.
I feel like Shane lays something in the middle ground, he did lots of good but also did lots of bad. Ultimately, I feel bad for Shane, he’s not outright evil like the governor, and he’s not a good guy like dale. I wish he had just ran away as he originally planned and redeemed himself
There’s nothing morally or ethically wrong with Shane and Lori becoming a couple. Two single consenting adults are free to have a relationship if they choose.
Rick was a photocopy of Shane in season 5 in love with another man’s wife to the point where he wanted to kill the and ended up killing him zero remorse he was Selfishly behaving towards the alexandrian people he even made remarks at Tera for “Risking her life for these people” he would kill anyone there at the drop of a hat…..he actually did he Stabbed that one guy in his neck who got bit because he was “Loud” an “innocent guy” just like Otis was so we see Rick doing the exact same things, people think Rick was more built for this world than Shane because Shane was “Losing it” but they failed to mention all the time Rick literally lost it in season 3 seeing Lori and sometimes Shane everywhere he went, he saw “Shane” in Woodberry and it gotten that one prisoner killed….I could go on and on, I think what happened to Shane and Rick was Both are starting at Opposite ends of the play field, Rick started off more passive and went extreme then stopped somewhere in the middle, Shane just started extreme and if he continued he would’ve have also gotten somewhere in the middle especially because he would have had Carl and Judith and Rick considering Lori still died.
Amazing comparison I love this. But Shane couldn’t even get passed killing Otis without it driving him crazy if he did mange to Kill Rick it would most definitely tip him to breaking point so in my opinion I don’t think Shane would have gotten better
@@theohuntt I think he would have Snapped out it because he had to take care of Carl and Judith , remember he said to Rick “Carl and Lori kept him alive” I personally believe the reason why he was losing it with Otis was because he was struggling mentally with the Drama of Rick and Lori on the Farm…..remember when he was upset with Lori he Literally screamed out “I Killed Otis for you” but he stopped when he was about to say his name….the true conflict in Shane’s Head was Killing Otis for a family that rejected him….lets look at it this way if Rick didn’t come back and Shane was still with Lori I definitely believe you wouldn’t have seen Shane gone through that mental issue he would have been way more Focused, all of Shane’s bad decisions and mental issues stemmed from something that has to do with Lori……look again Shane did kill Randell and he wanted to always kill Randell you believe that decision would have driven him insane? Nope but it would have driven him in if he killed Randall to protect Carl and Lori and they rejected him, putting him in the mindset that he again killed someone to protect them with No appreciation, this is Why when Lori begged Shane to stay and told him how much she appreciated him when he was at the Tower, He literally doubled down on his protectiveness and tried to killed to Rick because he believed Rick couldn’t protect them🤷🏽♂️ so if you pay attention it’s not what he did to Otis that messed him up but rather what he did to Otis and still wasn’t appreciated for it.
@theohuntt gotta take the whole video down and remake it now, do you think Shane would have risked his life like he did for Carl if it were Sophia or someone else's kid that got shot or did he only do it because it was Carl and he thought Carl belonged to him now
I wouldnt say he was good, he was a decent guy who became more egoistic as the show went on. People give him credit for having a s6-s10 mindset but he had it for the wrong reasons, he at some points didnt care about anyone but himself, lori and carl, anyone else could go to hell including members of his group. I personnaly think he always had this side in him and it wasnt just the world that turned him into that, I mean sexually assaulting your former lover is a weird thing to do. That guy is not a good person
I mean Shane did a lot of messed up stuff but it also needs to be acknowledged that how got treated is more or less the definition of an abusive/toxic relationship. Hot and cold behavior, gaslighting, being told to keep things behind closed doors, being blamed for the other person’s actions, being manipulated into thinking it was his fault, walking on egg shells, etc. Not to mention inconsistent treatment, extreme trauma, and your greatest source (and in this case only source because ya know… walking dead) of happiness is his greatest source of fear and pain are big contributing factors into how borderline personality disorder is developed. Combine that with the fact that he was attracted to and tolerated his treatment could point to a history or at least a familiarity with this style of relationship dynamic, hinting at an underlying condition. I am not blaming Lorie per se, but rather acknowledging the connection there and that she exasperated and accelerated his mental decline. I think Shane might have been an overall good person when in a stable environment with a support system, but in a toxic one with things falling apart around you, the only thing he had to hold onto was his fixations and ruminations. If you look into personality disorders, you will see that many people do stuff they don’t actually want to do as a result of their traumas and I think there was a lot more of that going on rather than an actual malicious intent.
Shane was the guy that, if fat, needed to be cut, he would cut the fat, and in that world, fat = people. Which would obviously cause problems if those people are well liked. It is interesting because by around S5, everyone kinda becomes Shane, like Shane was kinda ahead of his time, but it also happens in a way that it doesn't justify Shane's actions either.
Wonder if they hadn’t told Shane he would never be the baby daddy if it would have gotten to that point? I think he could have gotten over Lori if he could have been a big part of the baby’s life. Maybe.
Shane was a good man until he tried to kill his best friend. Let's be honest with each other, I've had a woman I was in love with leave me for another man and I've had two best friends who I would have given my life for not wanna be my friend anymore. I get Shane, and I think he is a good man all the way up until he tries to kill his best friend. I am Shane, except I'd never turn on my friends. That's when he went wrong. Life can push you into places your loved ones are afraid of, we must not be afraid to push ourselves to save people we love, even if they think we are insane.
a bad person would kill a man and lie to her husband and everyone else he loved about it. a bad man would DEFINITELY try and SA a woman regardless of how drunk he was. a bad man would 100% manipulate the people in his group that trusted him (even if they didn't)
What if Shane had no interest in Rick's family? Would Shane have tried killing Rick over not different leadership opinions or something else, or would he never have gone too far
Ok let’s be realistic, let’s just say the apocalypse never happened, Rick and Shane would still be best friends till the very end, it’s just the world gone to hell, Shane was capable of adapting to the new world earlier than everyone else, yes I do think Shane was a good person
Honestly once civilization goes out the window the concept of Good and Bad is almost moot. It's whatever you need to do to live. A good person would give someone in need food, but if you need that food just as bad or worse to live, you would kill that other person in need to make sure YOU get to live. I honestly think Shane did the best he could with what he had. Also Otis isn't innocent. He shot Carl. Sure it was an accident but that's why literally One of the rules for handling guns is to know what you are shooting at AND what is behind it. Hollywood doesn't understand this simple fact about guns.
THERE IS WAY TOO MUCH TO LIST..... I understand why people don't like Shane...... BUT IN MY OPINION..... OTHER THEN......when he got too drunk and came at Lori at the CDC...... He did save Rick's wife and son they gave him a reason to live like he said he also got the entire group to safety before Rick ever became a part of the picture....... Then I believe he had to make the hard decisions that Rick AKA officer friendly wasn't ready to accept that it's not the same old goody goody Two-Shoes world anymore YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE HARD DECISIONS IF YOU WANT TO SURVIVE..... Now yes a mix of Rick and Shane together which is ultimately a what Rick became later was probably the best combo but..... IN THE BEGINNING THOSE FIRST TWO SEASONS.... Everyone was not ready to make those hard decisions yet that they had to do in order to survive....... And Shane was willing to give himself up at the school Otis would not let him which I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYBODY SAYS THEY BOTH WOULD HAVE DIED AND THEN CARL WOULD HAVE DIED...... The walkers were faster back then and would have caught them THEY WERE BOTH INJURED.... 10 cents Otis would not allow him to sacrifice himself he had to make a choice which ultimately saved Carl...... yes it may have been wrong that he got close to Lori and couldn't seem to let her go but also I feel that he was willing to move on passed her finally but you could see her playing mind games where on one side she's telling Rick he's dangerous you need to get rid of him and then later gets mad when she finds out Shane got killed.... But then tell him to leave her and her kid alone..... then turns around and says oh well you're ignoring or being distant from Carl after she said to do so..... Then when he's finally ready to move on and possibly leave the group then she comes up to him at the windmill and basically says I'm sorry and in a way kind of admitted she HAD feelings for him too which of course reignited that fire inside of him that I think he finally put out..... It's not right to fall in love with your best friend's wife of course but when you thought your best friend probably died and this is the closest person to you in this entire group in this end of the world scenario of course feelings can arise.... I feel like yes he may have been a hothead in some situations but you know what I think at the end of the day he was trying to get everybody to understand the harsh side of things in order to survive yes like I said A MIX OF RICK AND SHANE together is probably a good medium..... But nobody else was making those hard decisions or thinking ahead of the curve that early and he had to be the one to plant the seed and show people what needed to be done.... And eventually Rick did learn to do those things just in a more gracious way..... And later in season 9 episode 5 when Rick gets to basically talk to Shane spirit you can see that Shane had moved on passed Rick taking him out but also he was impressed with Rick biting out the guy's throat the guy with the red machete I think those were parts of Shane that Rick absorbed and used when was necessary I think had that last talked with Lori at the windmill not happened he would have been able to move on and he either would have left the group or he would have been able to calm down and him and Rick would have been the greatest Duo ever And I think in the field he was trying to get Rick to kill him or was trying to get Rick to grow some nuts and step up to the plate and even in the behind the scenes you hear Shane's actor say that he wanted his gun to be unloaded in that scene so that when Rick shot him Rick would find out that his gun was never loaded the whole time and he wanted Rick to make that hard decision There's so much more I can say and just keep going on and on but Shane was one of the most well-written characters in the story and honestly is my favorite character in the whole entire series right next to Rick I just think that if Lori wouldn't have came back and kind of confused him that day at the windmill I think he would have moved on and I think he might have learned to not be so hot headed or when things got really bad during season 5 or season 6 he could have been a great asset to the group to keep them strong Now yes there's lots of negatives that I can list but we all know those and yes I think he was seeing Rick as an obstacle or getting frustrated with Rick but that's also because Rick was wasting resources looking for a little girl that they both knew was long gone and that was before the apocalypse when you only had 72 hours after the apocalypse there was no way in hell that girl would have survived more than one night out there alone and they could have lost many many more group members looking for her wasting more time But I think a lot of Shane's frustration towards Rick besides Rick making some stupid decisions was also because SHANE STARTED THAT GROUP HE GOT THEM ALL TO SAFETY...... And then Rick comes back and literally takes that position away from him and pushes him aside not only did he lose the family he started to feel like he had but then loses his leadership position and gets brushed off AND EVEN WHEN HE WAS MAKING THE RIGHT DECISIONS..... People still said oh we're going to listen to Rick I think a lot more people would end up like Shane in the Apocalypsethen Rick it takes a very strong person to go through all those things and still be a good person I think that could wear down almost anybody going through those things and watching the world end And if he could have just got past wanting Carl and Lori after Rick came back and stayed moved on or left the group with Andrea or whatever his choice would have been or to work alongside Rick I think they would have been a better Duo than Rick and Daryl
43 minutes buddy, hell yeah. But yeah you did get the part that i usually don't see whenever someone talks about Shane, is his guilt. I thought "wasn't he actually guilty a little after Rick came back?".
In the show, I don’t think the almost rape can’t be excused and we didn’t really get to see much in the comics but other than those two flaws I think he was probably a lot better
Shane was a very good friend to Rick but he always had a thing for Laurie. When Rick came back Shane realized he crossed a line that wasn't there when Rick was thought to be dead.
I’m conflicted because it said that trauma either changes a person or show somebody’s true colors so it’s kind of difficult unless we get confirmation that Shane was a rapist short tempered piece of shit before the apocalypse. It’s hard to say but we do know he’s a little bit misogynistic with the joke that he made at the beginning of the show so we get a little bit of his view on women so I hate to say it, but I think that he was a rapist before like all the stuff that he did like killing Otis I genuinely think that was just the same car like I would sacrifice anyoneto save my nephew or anyone in my family. If one of my family members are injured everybody gonna go out to make sure he is safe.
what Shane did was terrible trying to kill Rick and take Lori away yeah definitely terrible but yeah I agree if Zombie Apocalypse hadn't happened Lori would still be with Rick and Shane wouldn't even think of betraying his best friend and trying to take Lori so in a What If scenario if the Zombie Apocalypse hadn't happened I think Shane was a good person but In the canon timeline Shane was good at first but he had a tragic fall from grace and he's not a good person anymore.
I totally agree with you bro and that’s a great way of putting it. If the zombie apocalypse never happens Shane and Rick stay friends and probably grow old together lol
@@theohuntt yeah it's a really sad what if when you think about it, Rick and Shane would have stayed best friends till old age but fate had other plans for their friendship
By the end none of the characters can be deemed as good all have murdered lied cheated to survive good and bad no longer exists just the living and the dead .
i mostly blame lori anytime he tried to pull away do what would be better she always came in and complicated things for him almost like she couldnt decide if she loved him or rick which i think realllllyyyy fucked him up
In the webisode “The Oath” on RUclips by AMC. It tells us how Rick survived in the hospital even after the outbreak and it’s because a Doctor called Dr Gale kept him alive :)
No! He wasn’t good. He tried to kill Rick three times so he could take Rick’s family. That’s not a good person. I also believe Shane was always resentful of Rick’s life. He wanted Rick’s life before the ZA! Shane is trash! Oh, and he tried to sexually assault Lori! He was not a good person.
Make you are not making a good case for Shane and Laurie. None of the things you listed is a good reason. “My friends and family just died? Better hop on this guys meat!” Like what?
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
I’m not a massive Shane defender but to be fair, he did actually try to sacrifice himself at the school so that Otis could get away first. This was shortly after he’d injured his leg. Otis refused to leave him behind, and since he knew Otis wouldn’t let him sacrifice himself, he made the decision to sacrifice Otis instead. I don’t believe this was selfish at all, I believe it was purely to save Carl.
@@Bluetrekkie yeah that’s a very good point!
It’s one thing to let Otis die to save Carl it’s another thing entirely to use your last bullet on Otis to save yourself. If the walker would’ve gotten Otis while they were trying to get away then fine leave him, not much he could’ve done at that point but shooting Otis and leaving him for the walkers??? If it was the right choice, why lie about it to the others? Why hide it? Because it was wrong and Shane knew it and still did it anyway.
@@jamesswedan6490well, because like the above person said Otis refused to leave Shane behind
Each person was carrying a backpack full of medical equipment needed to save Carl at that point.
At their pace with Shane's leg and Otis' refusal to leave Shane behind the walkers would have caught up with them eventually and a few outcomes would have happened.
1. The walkers catch up to one of them. They get caught/bit and one half of the needed medical equipment is gone due to them both having a backpack each. (Carl dies)
2. If Shane is caught and bit, Otis would try to save Shane and then both backpacks are gone. (Carl dies)
3. If scenario 2 happens. The group at the farm has no idea what has happened (they can assume they failed). They would then send out another group to the Fema spot. Possibly Daryl,Glenn. Doesn't really matter. It would put even more members at risk. They may recover the medical equipment but it would not be in time (Carl dies)
From a logical thought process in a do or die situation. Someone HAS to get BOTH backpacks of medical equipment to the Farm to save Carl.
Otis would refuse to leave Shane behind so Shane has to shoot Otis to take backpack as he would not give it up willingly. As that means losing one of them.
Shoot him in the head and risk the walkers just going past Otis or shoot him in the leg and have the noise attract the walkers and assure Shane gets away and gets the medical supplies to Carl who he feels like a son to him at this point?
Not justifying it just saying there is some logic behind it
@@jamesswedan6490 I’m not necessarily saying it was the moral thing to do. I’m just saying he had valid reasons to do it & they weren’t selfish. Shane tried to sacrifice himself first so that Otis could get the supplies to Carl. Otis refused to leave him behind, and that’s when Shane realised that Otis would have allowed them both to die rather than compromising his morals. This however would have meant that Carl would also die. What Shane did wasn’t for himself, otherwise he would never have offered to sacrifice himself first. It was purely about saving Carl.
@@jamesswedan6490 Didn't he also Drag Otis to the walkers as well?
Imagine if Shane had run off, and reappeard in like, the Negan or Alexandria Arc
That would have been PEAK. But it also would have robbed us of one of the best characters in the whole show because seeing Shane’s villain arc play out is a big reason the show was so successful so early on
@@theohuntt Well, with some good writing, we can have both! At the final confrontation, instead of Shane and Rick fighting to the Death, have Shane have an epifiny and run off there, leaving his arc mostly intact, and saving him for later!
How about Shane in Fear?
@@Jenna-hu7mp i feel like shane's ending and how it went was necessary for his character, he couldn't live with himself so sacrificing himself to bait rick into killing him and finally become strong for carl and lori is definitely something shane needed to do to complete his character arc, because i always viewed shane as a tragic character who was going insane due to the apocalypse/emotional abuse of lori and the killing of otis so him baiting rick to toughen him up definitely is something shane would have done everytime, i never saw shane as a evil or a bad guy, i just saw him as a dude who did bad things however those bad things he did were ultimately the fault of his situation
"He lost who he was." Rick's words about Shane are the most accurate description of Shane as a person.
Yeah that’s very true
Oh man if only we could have got a non Lori run with Shane and Rick taking names. Damn.
Yeah they would have been unstoppable
Lori is a slimy egotistical snake dawg
It's not cheating, when both parties believe the spouse is dead.
lmao do I actually have to ask for a source for this
@@thrifty.lol 😭😭😭
Well, it is til DEATH do we part.
@@TheHellish I’m crying 😭😭😭
Home boy was dead for like a month. They def had feelings before any of this happened.
sadly they can´t put the scene where his gun was unloaded because at the moment where Rick stabbed him, Shane gave a Shoot out of the weapon so the Weapon was indeed loaded...
It was ricks gun that was fired when he handed it over not Shane’s gun…
@@theohunttno it was 100% Shane's. neither of them had their finger on the revolver's trigger whereas Shane's finger was on the glock. Also the lighting from the shot shone on Rick's back where Shane's hand with the gun was after Rick plunged him with the knife where Rick's Colt was at Shane's hip in his other hand pointing the ground. Shane's gun being unloaded was just a theory at the end of the day.
He may have been good, he may have been bad. But i know if I ever need to let someone “tell meh summin”, he’s the man
Hahahaha 😭😭😭
Shane was just the first one to realize that during an apocalypse, there is no true good or evil. There may be wrong and less wrong, but people have to do terrible things to survive.
There's a limit. You can't just do whatever. Shane would have led the group to death, sacrificing any and all of them at any time. Right and wrong do not go out the window in a crisis, the calculus just changes. If you don't keep your morality you end up like the cannibals at Terminus, or with Negan's reign of terror. Survival doesn't require abandoning morality; it's the opposite. The only way humanity survives is by holding on to it.
Exactly, people don't seem to grasp that just having a good heart won't necessarily make a good leader in an apocalypse. Gotta be more ruthless than Shane, the Gov and Negan if necessary
Shane looked out for himself above everyone else. Even to the point of loving on Lori, who was dealing with losing her husband. She fell for shane as a way of her dealing with the loss. A bad, but understandable decision. But shane clearly stated he was into Lori for a long time. He was also a future abuser, if he lived on past season 2, as we got a reference to that at the CDC in season 1. And in Nebraska we got word that the base on the western side of Georgia, just a few miles from a huge college campus in Alabama was overrun. What would Shane have done had the group continued going there? Who would have met their fate? Shane tried to make himself out to be the only person anyone could trust in an apocalypse. He's good until you get to know him. P.S. what gave Shane the right to count how many times he helped vs Rick, when it comes to Rick's family? He only knows what he saw (which was very little). And he was saying he was a better person, which he knows he is not.
Yeah very true
women jump straight to the nearest pole when in distress
Truth's nailed 🎯. Up to that point , I was 50/50 when it comes to Shane's reasoning and impulsive behaviour, but trying to rationalised his BS to Lori on how many times he's saved her and Carl with numbers? And trying to make Rick , his supposed best friend, looked like an incompetent loser to Rick's wife?. That's when I saw Shane's true colours, that he was always a selfish, vindictive and dodgy individual. By then , I knew he would always be a liability to the group.
I always hated that scene in Season 1 where Shane points his shotgun at Rick while they are in the forest. I might be biased, but to me it feels like a flaw in that season because it happens too early. The very notion of shooting Rick shouldn't remotely cross Shane's mind until somewhere in the latter half of Season 2. When Rick shows up at the camp in Season 1 Shane should be feeling elated, surprised, shocked, and GUILTY, wanting to hide. Ashamed of how bad this looks despite knowing truthfully that he did his best to save Rick and his family and told a probable white lie for the greater good of Lori and Carl.
I don't know if I commented this on your channel or Captain Gold, but I think a fascinating scenario to ponder is how differently things might be if Rick was never shot. This way Rick and Shane never have this conflict with a love triangle between them and Lori. Both friends being together to witness the end of the world they could both adapt at roughly the same rate. Maybe Shane see's the brutal reality a bit faster, but Rick is not far behind, both close enough to stay on the same page and support one another.
Yeah that’s such a good point it feels so out of place as there isn’t any real tension between the two of them at this point I agree it was out of character and the writers should have waited until season 2 for scenes like that
Well the first season was supposed to be longer and there was a rumor where Shane was supposed to did at the end of season 1 had it had more episodes
I felt it was right on time. Not for Rick, but Shane had seen so much death by then already.
Yes, he was a good person who became more and more unstable as he got:
- gaslit by Lori refusing multiple times to have any sort of rational discussion, instead choosing to cast him out and even try to forbid him to interact with Carl, all to then tell him to stay, then flip-flop constantly on whether Shane was a threat or not, should leave or not
- fed up with Rick being a goody-two-shoes who was incapable of making the tough calls unless his back was to the wall. Rick only drew his gun in the bar because they were 100% going to attack, but in the following scene he took the 1% chance that the group wouldn't immediately shoot at them for killing their friends, and he made the stupidest decision of losing their ambush advantage and trying to talk things out, that's the kind of naivete that plagued Rick
He tried many times to make things right, but circumstances kept forcing him to stay around and have to endure the bad decisions of others, and he eventually snapped. I can hardly blame him for that.
Just because someone gaslights you doesn’t give you the right to SA them lol that’s why for me Shane is bad
@@theohunttIt's massively ignoring the context. They had been having regular consensual sex for weeks, she had been acting incredibly irrational and Shane was wasted and stopped as soon as she fought him. You're making it seem like he ambushed a random stranger, and once again, it never would have happened if Lori was able to react like a sane human being. They were basically a couple, and she in an instant sent him away and refused to hear anything he had to say, so since she wasn't listening to words, Shane attempted to convince her through sex as that was part of their bond.
It's not good behavior, but neither is Lori's, and it's far from the worst thing Shane has done. It's more telling of your heavily modern feminist viewpoint than anything else that you think of that scene with such intense emotions.
@@dwight3555 imo SA is SA there’s no excuse for it and it does make you a bad person you can’t just go up to your ex and SA th because at one point in time it was consensual
@@theohuntt It's a loaded term to use in that context. The relationship "ended" barely a few days before and she couldn't even make things clear with him other than giving him complete whiplash by denigrating all the good he'd done for her and Carl and treating him horribly. You're making the scene far worse than it is because it affects your personal morals, it's not an objective reading. Lori made a billion mistakes, Shane made one mistake in return, and he stopped when she pushed him back with force. She refused to hear his words, so he tried to convince her with acts, it was a bad decision but she was the one who put him in this corner, and it makes her an absolute hypocrite as the series starts with Rick talking to Shane about how Lori constantly berates him for not speaking enough/having constructive dialogue with her, when she's just as incapable of it.
@ Shane makes far more than one mistake. He hits Carol, tries to kill Rick, sleeps with ricks wife and kills Otis. Again no matter what you right trying to play down the SA incident in the CDC it’s not going to change my mind lol your entitled to your opinion, but that’s mine and for me it’s wrong end of the
I thought the reason he shaves his hair off was because Otis rips some of his hair out while they are fighting after Shane shoots him in the leg? I never thought of it being out of remorse or shedding his old self
No that is the reason, but it was also symbolic of his mental state :)
Shane was a good guy. He let the evil world around him turn him into a villain…
Very true he was consumed by it
nah lori got in between two bros. they should cancelled that bish like nino
I really think that lori played a big role in shanes growing hate,
She treated him like the biggest asshole once rick came back, she treated him so unfairly i really hated lori for that so much
@@dnadz He just wanted some poon
Shane loved Rick until the zombie outbreak changed him
Well said
He was good guy before the apocalypse turned him into a monster
That about sums it up.
Shane was always a hothead. He definitely turned his bodycam off a couple of times
@@robinedwards462 nice way of putting it
@@theohuntt Thanks I’ve been enjoying your videos I just found them recently but good work!
The issue with Shane wanting to give up the search for Sophia after 72 hours is that he's only "right" from the perspective of a cop. That's not supposed to be his relationship to Sophia, and it's in contrast to Rick who did take responsibility for protecting her. She's part of the family/tribe they're establishing, not some stranger, and you don't give up on family after 72 hours. If he's not willing to go longer than police procedure to look for a member of their group, then he's not genuinely invested on the survival of that group and not capable of leading or protecting them. His one and only interest was in protecting Lori and Carl, to the detriment of everyone else, and he would have abandoned or killed every last one of them until finally leading a weakened and diminished group to their death. Either that or he would have become a henchman for a tyrant like the Governor or Negan. He wasn't a good person.
That’s actually a really good point! I like the fact you described them as their own little tribe. I agree with you Shane probably should have been less keen to give up the search
Yesss another great Video thanks theo👍
@@skullskills7772 thank you very much!!! :)
My problem with Shane started when he asked Rick in the car how Lori was. Not, how are you and Lori doing, but specifically her. It just got worse from there. He undermined Rick's every single decision whether it was good or bad. When he SA'd Lori that was the final straw, nothing I mean nothing could make him a good person in my eyes anymore. To me it's just not something you can easily come back from. Otis was the least offensible thing he did lol so I find it funny that's what everyone fights about.
Lori stopped him in his attempt to SA her tho, so he didn't really SA, just was about to and tried to and she didn't get hurt really.
@@NarimKhan-j8sSA isnt exclusively defined by r*pe, he absolutely SA’d her. Even an attempt is still traumatizing as you could see Loris response after he left. Nothing Shane did after that could get any worse in my opinion, or it simply didnt surprise me.
At least Rick awakened his Mangekyo Sharingan the night he killed Shane
The real reason that drove Shane to try to kill Rick was Rick’s leadership. Rick literally brought walkers on the farm and a man that attempted to kill himself, Glenn and Herschel just too bandage him up and send him to his own people just for them to come to the farm and kill everybody, all just to honor Dale. It’s fair to say if Shane wouldn’t have went “insane” as you say and killed Randle he would have brought his men back to the farm. Rick had to be stopped. And making horrible choices risking lives under Rick living in a delusion like Sophia still being alive after weeks is what drove Shane insane.
"I'm a better father than you, Rick. I'm better for Lori than you, man. It's 'cause I'm a better man than you, Rick."
Yeah a great guy 👌
😭😭😭😭😭
He set him up! The whole apocalypse!
I more so view Shane’s attempt to kill rick as a test, he knew he couldn’t live with himself and thought rick couldn't make the hard decisions, so he gets rick onto the field, and literally tells rick to raise his gun, to defend coral and lori, to make the hard decision, him attempting to kill rick doesn’t make sense to me because he couldn’t even live with the killing of otis, him killing rick would have been 10 times worse, also the fact that shane is actively trying to bait rick into killing him, putting his gun away and telling rick to raise his gun, and also jon's statement, while its true the scene of shane having his gun unloaded wasn’t acted upon, he still said there was that flavor of intent in that scene, and i think he knows more about shane's intentions that anyone else, i think thats all suggesting that shane didn’t do it to kill rick, it was a test to see if rick would do what it takes, when rick approaches him he thinks rick can't do it and knows he can't as well, thats why in the scene we can see him hesitate/make a clear sad facial expression, after rick stabs him he looks at the knife and at rick as in shock that he could actually do it, thats my view atleast
The only good thing I saw that Shane did was tell Otis to take the bags. Then shane switched, real fast, and decided he wanted to be a hero, (so screw otis).
Amazing pov
Governor is another one that can be defended. He lost himself after penny got bit. Not only that, but once he leaves Woodbury, he meets the family in the apartment which Meghan is part of. For a while he connects with the little girl but then she gets bit, which is basically like watching the penny situation repeat itself. Really have to feel somewhat bad for the dude, I mean he tried to redeem himself but just ended up loosing a loved one again.
Have you read the governor book or know his backstory, he literally lost himself and became a different person, he became his older brother took his name and everything
He was a guy who meant well but got consumed by his demons. Under slightly different circumstances he could very well have either stayed a protagonist or even had been THE protagonist. The fact that his decent into hell was paved with arguably good intentions , that the character boils over when frustrated makes him feel very real, perhaps the most authentic portrayal of how the average person my react under that sort of crisis.
Okay making this comment to cement my opinion about this before I watch, no Shane was not a good person by his death in my opinion. Even the glimpses we see to his character pre-apocalypse where he loves Lori and secretly waits for her is questionable. I know he believed Rick dead but allowing yourself to lust for your best friends wife feels weird to me. Then his slow break down once he's exposed to a greater position of power than the one he held already as a police officer I think really gave avenues for his ego to come out in bad ways. Then the whole situation with Otis was truly tragic and evil. A true hero would've given Otis the chance to prove himself through sacrifice to save Carl. I believe that had they worked together, they could've found a solution and both lived while getting the supplies. I also think they did Otis the way they did in the show to help audience see how far Shane had gone over the deep in with his "for the greater good" mentality.
I ageee Shane is a questionable dude
Otis clearly made it clear that he wasn't leaving himself OR shane behind, meaning otis wouldn’t sacrifice himself nor would he allow shane to, even if he would have, the walkers were gaining up on them while they both had sprained ankles and lots of gear on with still a pretty long distance to the car while they were also tripping on flat ground taking seconds to get up, it would be foolish for shane to just wait for otis to maybe sacrifice himself, it wasn't evil, it was a necessity that needed to be done to ensure carl's survival, you can call it tragic but shane isn't evil for doing it
@skv1345 as said in the video fans are divided by this moment and I guess you’ve both proven my point so thank you haha
When I watched the first few eps, the first time, I was barely paying attention. Then I took time and watched. Shane was a dog from the get go. He did a couple of 'good' things, which made some like him. But on second view you realize Shane bs'd his way into getting credit for much.
@skv1345 That's just my personal take, I haven't watched that episode except for clips in a bit so I see what you mean. I think he had it in him to volunteer I mean he was brave enough to go in the first place knowing the place was overrun, and with Carl's life being on the line my view is he might have been able to be convinced to sacrifice himself, or more likely just try to make them both survive. I think it's evil Shane made the choice for him and murdered him.
Lemme tell you sum'... Great video
Hahahaha thank you very much😭😭😭
Shane should have took Andrea and left NICE video ty
T Dog
Thank you so much! :)
Should blame lori for what she did to Shane, she caused Shane to go off and lead to Rick killing Shane
Shane wasn't a bad person, everyone dies whether they want to or not, Shane just decided the order himself.
Shane adapted to the new way too fast.. He was the character that was needed regardless if he was good or not
In my opinion if Lori had gotten unsubscribed from life during the outbreak and Carl was left with shane and then gotten reunited with Rick I think things would have been greatly different but that's just me.
No I agree I think your probably right
Still waiting for the next hot takes, I wanna see if I got in:)
It will be coming soon my friend
I feel like Shane lays something in the middle ground, he did lots of good but also did lots of bad. Ultimately, I feel bad for Shane, he’s not outright evil like the governor, and he’s not a good guy like dale. I wish he had just ran away as he originally planned and redeemed himself
3:36 husband you mean😂
Lolll yeah 😭😭😭
I defend Shane and I ALSO know Rick did what he had to do.... I, personally, blame Lori.
There’s nothing morally or ethically wrong with Shane and Lori becoming a couple. Two single consenting adults are free to have a relationship if they choose.
Rick was a photocopy of Shane in season 5 in love with another man’s wife to the point where he wanted to kill the and ended up killing him zero remorse he was Selfishly behaving towards the alexandrian people he even made remarks at Tera for “Risking her life for these people” he would kill anyone there at the drop of a hat…..he actually did he Stabbed that one guy in his neck who got bit because he was “Loud” an “innocent guy” just like Otis was so we see Rick doing the exact same things, people think Rick was more built for this world than Shane because Shane was “Losing it” but they failed to mention all the time Rick literally lost it in season 3 seeing Lori and sometimes Shane everywhere he went, he saw “Shane” in Woodberry and it gotten that one prisoner killed….I could go on and on, I think what happened to Shane and Rick was Both are starting at Opposite ends of the play field, Rick started off more passive and went extreme then stopped somewhere in the middle, Shane just started extreme and if he continued he would’ve have also gotten somewhere in the middle especially because he would have had Carl and Judith and Rick considering Lori still died.
Amazing comparison I love this. But Shane couldn’t even get passed killing Otis without it driving him crazy if he did mange to Kill Rick it would most definitely tip him to breaking point so in my opinion I don’t think Shane would have gotten better
@@theohuntt I think he would have Snapped out it because he had to take care of Carl and Judith , remember he said to Rick “Carl and Lori kept him alive” I personally believe the reason why he was losing it with Otis was because he was struggling mentally with the Drama of Rick and Lori on the Farm…..remember when he was upset with Lori he Literally screamed out “I Killed Otis for you” but he stopped when he was about to say his name….the true conflict in Shane’s Head was Killing Otis for a family that rejected him….lets look at it this way if Rick didn’t come back and Shane was still with Lori I definitely believe you wouldn’t have seen Shane gone through that mental issue he would have been way more Focused, all of Shane’s bad decisions and mental issues stemmed from something that has to do with Lori……look again Shane did kill Randell and he wanted to always kill Randell you believe that decision would have driven him insane? Nope but it would have driven him in if he killed Randall to protect Carl and Lori and they rejected him, putting him in the mindset that he again killed someone to protect them with No appreciation, this is Why when Lori begged Shane to stay and told him how much she appreciated him when he was at the Tower, He literally doubled down on his protectiveness and tried to killed to Rick because he believed Rick couldn’t protect them🤷🏽♂️ so if you pay attention it’s not what he did to Otis that messed him up but rather what he did to Otis and still wasn’t appreciated for it.
3:39 a makeshift wife to Lori
lol my bad
@theohuntt gotta take the whole video down and remake it now, do you think Shane would have risked his life like he did for Carl if it were Sophia or someone else's kid that got shot or did he only do it because it was Carl and he thought Carl belonged to him now
I wouldnt say he was good, he was a decent guy who became more egoistic as the show went on. People give him credit for having a s6-s10 mindset but he had it for the wrong reasons, he at some points didnt care about anyone but himself, lori and carl, anyone else could go to hell including members of his group. I personnaly think he always had this side in him and it wasnt just the world that turned him into that, I mean sexually assaulting your former lover is a weird thing to do. That guy is not a good person
Yeah very well said, I think the Shane praise about adapting is often misplaced
If only he never like Lori, the group could've unstoppable against the Governor or Negan
I mean Shane did a lot of messed up stuff but it also needs to be acknowledged that how got treated is more or less the definition of an abusive/toxic relationship. Hot and cold behavior, gaslighting, being told to keep things behind closed doors, being blamed for the other person’s actions, being manipulated into thinking it was his fault, walking on egg shells, etc.
Not to mention inconsistent treatment, extreme trauma, and your greatest source (and in this case only source because ya know… walking dead) of happiness is his greatest source of fear and pain are big contributing factors into how borderline personality disorder is developed.
Combine that with the fact that he was attracted to and tolerated his treatment could point to a history or at least a familiarity with this style of relationship dynamic, hinting at an underlying condition.
I am not blaming Lorie per se, but rather acknowledging the connection there and that she exasperated and accelerated his mental decline.
I think Shane might have been an overall good person when in a stable environment with a support system, but in a toxic one with things falling apart around you, the only thing he had to hold onto was his fixations and ruminations. If you look into personality disorders, you will see that many people do stuff they don’t actually want to do as a result of their traumas and I think there was a lot more of that going on rather than an actual malicious intent.
Shane was the guy that, if fat, needed to be cut, he would cut the fat, and in that world, fat = people. Which would obviously cause problems if those people are well liked. It is interesting because by around S5, everyone kinda becomes Shane, like Shane was kinda ahead of his time, but it also happens in a way that it doesn't justify Shane's actions either.
Wonder if they hadn’t told Shane he would never be the baby daddy if it would have gotten to that point? I think he could have gotten over Lori if he could have been a big part of the baby’s life. Maybe.
Yeah agreed it’s after that point Shane starts to lose it!
He is judiths biological father
Shane was a good man until he tried to kill his best friend. Let's be honest with each other, I've had a woman I was in love with leave me for another man and I've had two best friends who I would have given my life for not wanna be my friend anymore. I get Shane, and I think he is a good man all the way up until he tries to kill his best friend. I am Shane, except I'd never turn on my friends. That's when he went wrong. Life can push you into places your loved ones are afraid of, we must not be afraid to push ourselves to save people we love, even if they think we are insane.
I understand your point. But Shane borderline SAs Lori at the CDC and kills Otis so I comes down to more than just killing Rick I think
Shane would have been a good ally if not for lori
In the comics it was actually Carl killed shane and rick killed the zombie shane..
A bad person wouldn't have washed Carol & consulted her after the barn.
He just was obsessed with lori.
a bad person would kill a man and lie to her husband and everyone else he loved about it. a bad man would DEFINITELY try and SA a woman regardless of how drunk he was. a bad man would 100% manipulate the people in his group that trusted him (even if they didn't)
What if Shane had no interest in Rick's family? Would Shane have tried killing Rick over not different leadership opinions or something else, or would he never have gone too far
Shanes turn to evil started when he stole the principals truck and got it covered in chcilen shit
Ok let’s be realistic, let’s just say the apocalypse never happened, Rick and Shane would still be best friends till the very end, it’s just the world gone to hell, Shane was capable of adapting to the new world earlier than everyone else, yes I do think Shane was a good person
Nah Otis woulda got both of them killed. Shane had to sacrifice him while they was still a bit far behind
I love how everyone as there own opinion on that situation it’s what makes the character of Shane so brilliant!
Honestly once civilization goes out the window the concept of Good and Bad is almost moot. It's whatever you need to do to live. A good person would give someone in need food, but if you need that food just as bad or worse to live, you would kill that other person in need to make sure YOU get to live. I honestly think Shane did the best he could with what he had. Also Otis isn't innocent. He shot Carl. Sure it was an accident but that's why literally One of the rules for handling guns is to know what you are shooting at AND what is behind it. Hollywood doesn't understand this simple fact about guns.
Their story was a story as old time He was a good person that made a bad decision.
THERE IS WAY TOO MUCH TO LIST..... I understand why people don't like Shane...... BUT IN MY OPINION..... OTHER THEN......when he got too drunk and came at Lori at the CDC......
He did save Rick's wife and son they gave him a reason to live like he said he also got the entire group to safety before Rick ever became a part of the picture.......
Then I believe he had to make the hard decisions that Rick AKA officer friendly wasn't ready to accept that it's not the same old goody goody Two-Shoes world anymore YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE HARD DECISIONS IF YOU WANT TO SURVIVE..... Now yes a mix of Rick and Shane together which is ultimately a what Rick became later was probably the best combo but..... IN THE BEGINNING THOSE FIRST TWO SEASONS.... Everyone was not ready to make those hard decisions yet that they had to do in order to survive.......
And Shane was willing to give himself up at the school Otis would not let him which I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYBODY SAYS THEY BOTH WOULD HAVE DIED AND THEN CARL WOULD HAVE DIED...... The walkers were faster back then and would have caught them THEY WERE BOTH INJURED.... 10 cents Otis would not allow him to sacrifice himself he had to make a choice which ultimately saved Carl......
yes it may have been wrong that he got close to Lori and couldn't seem to let her go but also I feel that he was willing to move on passed her finally but you could see her playing mind games where on one side she's telling Rick he's dangerous you need to get rid of him and then later gets mad when she finds out Shane got killed.... But then tell him to leave her and her kid alone..... then turns around and says oh well you're ignoring or being distant from Carl after she said to do so..... Then when he's finally ready to move on and possibly leave the group then she comes up to him at the windmill and basically says I'm sorry and in a way kind of admitted she HAD feelings for him too which of course reignited that fire inside of him that I think he finally put out..... It's not right to fall in love with your best friend's wife of course but when you thought your best friend probably died and this is the closest person to you in this entire group in this end of the world scenario of course feelings can arise....
I feel like yes he may have been a hothead in some situations but you know what I think at the end of the day he was trying to get everybody to understand the harsh side of things in order to survive yes like I said A MIX OF RICK AND SHANE together is probably a good medium.....
But nobody else was making those hard decisions or thinking ahead of the curve that early and he had to be the one to plant the seed and show people what needed to be done....
And eventually Rick did learn to do those things just in a more gracious way.....
And later in season 9 episode 5 when Rick gets to basically talk to Shane spirit you can see that Shane had moved on passed Rick taking him out but also he was impressed with Rick biting out the guy's throat the guy with the red machete I think those were parts of Shane that Rick absorbed and used when was necessary
I think had that last talked with Lori at the windmill not happened he would have been able to move on and he either would have left the group or he would have been able to calm down and him and Rick would have been the greatest Duo ever
And I think in the field he was trying to get Rick to kill him or was trying to get Rick to grow some nuts and step up to the plate and even in the behind the scenes you hear Shane's actor say that he wanted his gun to be unloaded in that scene so that when Rick shot him Rick would find out that his gun was never loaded the whole time and he wanted Rick to make that hard decision
There's so much more I can say and just keep going on and on but Shane was one of the most well-written characters in the story and honestly is my favorite character in the whole entire series right next to Rick
I just think that if Lori wouldn't have came back and kind of confused him that day at the windmill I think he would have moved on and I think he might have learned to not be so hot headed or when things got really bad during season 5 or season 6 he could have been a great asset to the group to keep them strong
Now yes there's lots of negatives that I can list but we all know those
and yes I think he was seeing Rick as an obstacle or getting frustrated with Rick but that's also because Rick was wasting resources looking for a little girl that they both knew was long gone and that was before the apocalypse when you only had 72 hours after the apocalypse there was no way in hell that girl would have survived more than one night out there alone and they could have lost many many more group members looking for her wasting more time
But I think a lot of Shane's frustration towards Rick besides Rick making some stupid decisions was also because
SHANE STARTED THAT GROUP HE GOT THEM ALL TO SAFETY...... And then Rick comes back and literally takes that position away from him and pushes him aside not only did he lose the family he started to feel like he had but then loses his leadership position and gets brushed off AND EVEN WHEN HE WAS MAKING THE RIGHT DECISIONS..... People still said oh we're going to listen to Rick I think a lot more people would end up like Shane in the Apocalypsethen Rick it takes a very strong person to go through all those things and still be a good person I think that could wear down almost anybody going through those things and watching the world end
And if he could have just got past wanting Carl and Lori after Rick came back and stayed moved on or left the group with Andrea or whatever his choice would have been or to work alongside Rick I think they would have been a better Duo than Rick and Daryl
Shanes gun wasn't unloaded, he fired a shot when Rick stabbed him.
43 minutes buddy, hell yeah. But yeah you did get the part that i usually don't see whenever someone talks about Shane, is his guilt. I thought "wasn't he actually guilty a little after Rick came back?".
Yeah Shane is always consumed by guilt it’s one of the characters biggest flaws, I hope you enjoyed the video bro!
In the show, I don’t think the almost rape can’t be excused and we didn’t really get to see much in the comics but other than those two flaws I think he was probably a lot better
He. Tried. To. Force. Himself. On. Lori. At the CDC. Case closed.
Agreed
Shane was a very good friend to Rick but he always had a thing for Laurie. When Rick came back Shane realized he crossed a line that wasn't there when Rick was thought to be dead.
@@warrenreid6109 yeah so true!
Shane did not cross the line. Both he and Lori thought that Rick was dead.
I’m conflicted because it said that trauma either changes a person or show somebody’s true colors so it’s kind of difficult unless we get confirmation that Shane was a rapist short tempered piece of shit before the apocalypse. It’s hard to say but we do know he’s a little bit misogynistic with the joke that he made at the beginning of the show so we get a little bit of his view on women so I hate to say it, but I think that he was a rapist before like all the stuff that he did like killing Otis I genuinely think that was just the same car like I would sacrifice anyoneto save my nephew or anyone in my family. If one of my family members are injured everybody gonna go out to make sure he is safe.
what Shane did was terrible trying to kill Rick and take Lori away yeah definitely terrible but yeah I agree if Zombie Apocalypse hadn't happened Lori would still be with Rick and Shane wouldn't even think of betraying his best friend and trying to take Lori so in a What If scenario if the Zombie Apocalypse hadn't happened I think Shane was a good person but In the canon timeline Shane was good at first but he had a tragic fall from grace and he's not a good person anymore.
I totally agree with you bro and that’s a great way of putting it. If the zombie apocalypse never happens Shane and Rick stay friends and probably grow old together lol
@@theohuntt yeah it's a really sad what if when you think about it, Rick and Shane would have stayed best friends till old age but fate had other plans for their friendship
By the end none of the characters can be deemed as good all have murdered lied cheated to survive good and bad no longer exists just the living and the dead .
Imho I think he was neither good or bad he was just a lost soul
the answer is no. he SA’d lori
Agreed
Definitely would say not one of shane’s proudest moments, thats why i never call him a "good guy" just a broken man
Yes Lori ruined him 😑
Imagine a Shane and Rick duo without Lori they would have been unstoppable
i mostly blame lori anytime he tried to pull away do what would be better she always came in and complicated things for him almost like she couldnt decide if she loved him or rick which i think realllllyyyy fucked him up
Yeah but the whole Lorry thing…
You should do more videos defending the villains…its nice to see a different perspective from their POV and justifying their actions
@@droopy10115 thank you and noted I will definitely get some more out in the future!
Bruh had Andrea right there for the taking lol....and IMO she was badder than Lori anyway. Yeah i know that aint everything but still 😂
1:43 Sorry, who are we talking about? What’s going on?
In the webisode “The Oath” on RUclips by AMC. It tells us how Rick survived in the hospital even after the outbreak and it’s because a Doctor called Dr Gale kept him alive :)
@@theohuntt thanks, I’ll check this out
Naaah the Otis situation is just wrong
@@deathNodOfTheEel yeah I agree with you
For survival and to save Carl? No. But morally? Yes
Magic 🎱 says, "Murderers are not good people."
Thanks for such an insightful comment :)
Not Rick either then.
@@theohuntt 😁
@@Anti9022 Agreed. Definitely an anti-hero, just not as sadistic as Negan.
3:35 make shift wife😂
I meant to say husband lol 😭😭😭
🤣🤣🤣🤣@@theohuntt
Shane would’ve been a horrible housewife, Lori would’ve had to nag both him and Andrea at the farm 😂
We wasn't the worst person.......
He’s been bad all his life but only a couple times was he the bad guy
Lori the only problem here is
No. That was easy. I don’t know why the video is 16:02 when it takes one word lol. (I haven’t seen the video)
No! He wasn’t good. He tried to kill Rick three times so he could take Rick’s family. That’s not a good person. I also believe Shane was always resentful of Rick’s life. He wanted Rick’s life before the ZA! Shane is trash! Oh, and he tried to sexually assault Lori! He was not a good person.
Make you are not making a good case for Shane and Laurie. None of the things you listed is a good reason. “My friends and family just died? Better hop on this guys meat!” Like what?
Shane Wawsh 😋
I blame lori more than anything
She robbed us of one of the greatest post apocalyptic duos ever :(
@ i wont lie lori always pmo
He was a pig cop , no he wasn't a good person
You think that about every cop?
@@ASlightlyOutdoorsyChristian08 90%
No
good guy who was broken by the world around him.
Yeah I’d probably agree with you there
He lived far too long.
I think he lived for just the right amount of time tbh
@@theohuntt I agree with you.
He should have lived longer
@Koolkid685 agreed!!! I still miss Shane.
He was good. Just wasn’t mentally stable.
@@garyxiong7177 I’m not sure he was good… but he definitely was mentally unstable
No