The "you don't matter" part is also tied to survivability. Of course as a pos3 you don't want to die, but ideally, it takes 3+ enemy heroes some time to kill you - which turns a lot of other orange camps on the map green.
Camps behind the wave are safe exactly because of what you said; it is optimal to farm the lane creeps. So if someone is not farming the lane while it is pushed, they are either making a blunder or looking for you, so in those cases you go back. Not seeing someone at the wave, is pretty much the same as seeing someone on a ward.
The problem with not seeing someone at the wave at a lower level is that you never know if they are coming for you or they're simply not vigilant. When you underestimate them and overstay, they were actually looking for you and you die. When you assume they're playing it right and hunting you and so you back off, they were not vigilant and you lose out on juicy farm. It's just a lose-lose situation all around shaking my smh
@@bantaibaman5662 true, but it is still best to go somewhere safer. It is not best if you want to always win, but it still is the most consistent play, hence the one that helps you climb more. If you want to one up going somewhere safer, call your team over so that you can have a fight in case something happens. But then you will complain "my team is not coming", so if you don't wanna rely on someone go back.
this video by jenkins was such an eye opener when it came out, i think its one of the must watch video for every dota player; new or old. ofc only if they arent aware of this concept already, and its always nice to refresh on some of these ideas because mechanics can change, but vision over the game can carry over much readily through the patches
To expand on the farm priority discussion, priority is really only a hard rule in laning. The 1 and 3 get last hits in lane, the 4 and 5 focus on activity. The only position that usually holds true through the game regardless of team comp is position 1 - but that's still NOT universal. For example if your position 1 is Ursa who peaks early and has a pretty self-sufficient kit, your mid or even offlane (i.e. Razor) might end up being higher farm priority if the game goes long. Other positions are way more fluid than 1 since 1 is almost always a gold vacuum hero. A good pos4 will often have more farm by the end of the game than pos3 in the current meta, because pos3 will usually be holding valuable auras and want to stay with the team and create opportunities to take objectives, while a pos4 will ideally be taking contested farm that's too dangerous to risk losing the 1 or 2; but because pos3 wants that early aura item spike, they get farm priority in lane to hit that spike as soon as possible while the 4 tries to be active and catches up later. Same deal if you run a scaling 3 and a utility 2, usually the 2 is just mid for the solo XP.
Also, when I was climbing MMR, I watched a lot of videos about strat, itemization, mechanic, pro plays etc. But whenever I'm in game I forgot all about it. So I literally had a checklist paper besides me when I play Dota to remind me what I should do and not do. Most of my checklist is from what I learned from Jenkins, Henry rawdota, gameleap dota 2, datoleong, gamerzclass dota 2 and etc. You could say because I tried my best to make sure my theories/plan happen, my game got easier and MMR keep pilling up. 😀
Camps behind creeps = green is not always true, due to the smoke point Grubby mentions. However, creeps pushed to a tower is always a check: are there enemies defending it, ones that should be defending it or ones that can kill you? If not, they're either inefficient or somewhere else. At this point the aware jungler knows (by omission) that they may be in danger, and the camp has turned from green to orange.
One way to bring back a losing game as pos1, when team is contained and really beaten, is to farm the good spots on the enemy side, while pressuring the lanes so that the enemy splits up to defend. Then tp back to take a teamfight 5v4 or better odds. Risky, but better than a loss by doing nothing.
As a pos 3/4 Clockwerk spammer, it's very noticeable that in losing games I don't prioritize contesting the enemy jungle as much as in winning games. Offlaners need to turn the red into orange as they push and the orange into green as they gank.
I like that u r not just simply grinding the game, but also taking ur time to learn some marco concepts. I've seen so much players that excel at micro yet struggle to realise they are not where they are supposed to be at a given time, which always costs them a game. If u were to just chain q and play the game u probably would have progressed rankwise, but I'm sure u would have hit a wall soon after.
i think it depends like if razor getting that bloodstone helps him snowball you farm priority naturally moves up and once you meet that timing you are start farming orange camps
Grubby, I just realized that you haven't tried Dota 2 Ability Draft game mode! I'm sure you will like it a lot, I learned a lot about Dota in general by playing this mode (it's official game mode like single draft etc). 1) I learned a lot about every hero's model (stats, attack animation speed and range, armor) because your build depends a lot on your hero. 2) Also you will feel what ability of each hero is actually making him strong and what are the strongest skills in the game. For example draw ranger without her ulty or slark without his passive are almost useless and Shiquchi or Reincarnation will make any hero really strong. 3) All game mechanics in this mode can really turn to their peak points. Damage reduction , attack range, spell lifesteal or spell amplification can become so overpowered by picking two or more abilities with it that you will fill like a raid boss. 4) The decision making on you itemization can also become a lot more situational and important. When the enemy team has an imba magic hero you can sometimes go for BKB or blademail first item. 5) My personal problem in Dota was that I was lazy to try some hard heroes like Storm Spirit, Earth Spirit, Invoker and other. Because to start playing them good you need to practice a lot and lose a lot of games. But Ability Draft allows you to try some of these hero's skills one by one in combination with other more simple ones. This is a really fun and 100 times more various game mode, actually i'm addicted to it :) Waga, Buldog, Purge, Dandy love it. And it will be super fun and high quality content to be couched to play an Ability Draft by Purge or someone else. I will be truly happy to see you trying this mode!
A good way to deny gold is leaving the smallest creep from the stack alive when farming enemy jungle. You miss out on that one creep but the enemy misses out all the rest :)
Pros will tell you to never ever do this and if you watch 10k+ mmr replays they never do this either, most likely cause not killing the creep is inefficient as hell and it's just plain not worth to do it when you could farm that camp again in the near future, really 2k mmr tip there, just farm the creep, that's the whole point
So usually players knew lot of theories or strat like this and when everything goes well like the theories, they will win games. But the problems happened when the situation didn't go like the theories they learned and then they lost the game. From what I see, they usually knew theories like this but when something goes away from their theories they lose their composure and start doing bad decisions. They think theories are coincidence and something that happened naturally but A good player will make sure the game will go according to the theories they knew and try their best to control the variables that could make theories go awry. So my advice is to find a way to make sure the theories will happen according to your plan. You could say the team that could make their theories/strategies happen first have a higher chances of winning. P.s- I'm not that high in MMR just around 4k-5k but I started from crusader.
@@choixero2395 yes correct if you are playing solo. If you are playing as a team for example in TI or other big competition, they usually have a plan and try to stick to it. They do adapt to certain situations but most of the time they stick to their main plan. That's why we can see different teams have different play styles because they have their own plans. For example when Ana played IO in TI, do you think Ana just wing it or adapt on the spot or did Ana/OG already had theories/plan using IO?
if there are wards to place or lanes to push or heroes that need ganking or towers being pressured and you are not near any important item timing you definitely should be yelled at for farming easy camps as support, your time/health/mana should be used to make sure your allies can farm those camps
@@SerechII and then get yelled at a minute later for not having an item they want me to have for a gank timing since i dont have the money you cant have it both ways
@@viktorgabriel2554 Yeah, I was just trying to say it's a case by case kinda thing, someone can be shitty about supports farming and someone can be a shitty support farming, it goes both ways, just fulfill your duties and farm when it's not gonna harm the overall flow of your team and you are fine
Not optimizing farming isn't losing you MMR, it prevents you from gaining it. The distinction is very important. And should you care? Not in the slightest.
Bro listen, If you want MMR, the best advice I can give you is this: PLAY HEROES WHO CONTROL MULTIPLE UNITS. Not only that those heroes are strongest heroes in DOTA 2, but you are guy who can naturaly control those heroes and those heroes are not pick by a lot of people due to being hard to play. If you force to play, VISAGE, LONE DRUID, MEPO and so on, I think you will explode with MMR! Good luck, peace!
Jenkins took his explanation to another level since GrubbyDota tried to apply his theory in one of his games. Jenkins: this man(Grubby) is gonna surpass my skill level. I should be careful giving shortcuts and make it more complicated next time.
Camps actually have a proper categorisation. Small/easy camp is the pull camp. Medium camps are (mostly) the ones near the outposts. Large/hard camps are the offllane pull camps and the ones closest to each team's mid t2/t3. The type of camp it is dictates what can spawn in it. So wildwings can only spawn in hard camps, mud golems can only spawn in medium etc. There is some overlap with what can spawn. Centaurs for example spawn at both, but the hard variant has an extra small Centaur. The icons on the map for each camp show what rank they are, small camp only has a triangle, medium has a bar underneath, large has 2 bars, ancient has a double triangle icon.
@@gordonchristophertubo3164 I was talking about the proper categorisation of camps which grubby was a bit confused with. Not the weird terminology Jenkins is using. What Jenkins is trying to say is that there are safe, risky and suicidal camps to take and these change based off of enemy positioning, proximity to tower and creep wave locations. Basically likelihood of encountering enemies when farming.
I highly doubt that, since pro team is way more mechanically skilled than avg dota players. Even if you consider that they'll have same level of understanding/theory of the game. Just imagine how one sided the midlane match up would be, then after laning stage the midlaner from pro team could dominate the game.
He making the terms harder. Instead of saying green, orange, red. Green camp = safe camps. Orange camp = hard camp. Red camp = [enemy name] camp. If you're radiant that is a "dire camp" instead of red. If you're dire camp that is a "Radiant camp". It uses pre-existing dota terms and makes sense by itself.
as the poster above me pointed it out, there are already small, medium, and hard camp categorization. Thats why the green, orange, and red makes more sense.
color coding recognition is subconcious and way faster and easier to remember in your brain then conscious word and concept recognition such as enemy, dire, or whatever
Since when is there a color coding of camps. It's just small camp, big camp, ancient camp on enemy/ally jungle. When a camp is with shrine and is captured by enemy, it should be considered as the enemy camps until taken back. Lol
Grubby literally says he watches the videos to incite conversation about DotA topics, he's not looking for the magic formula to get mmr, he's just looking at interesting dota videos that might make him reconsider some things ...
"Don't be mad, it's just a game..." Every loser says that!! It's Win or Die trying and if you Die(lose), well then you are a LOSER...Simple math there 😁
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
The "you don't matter" part is also tied to survivability. Of course as a pos3 you don't want to die, but ideally, it takes 3+ enemy heroes some time to kill you - which turns a lot of other orange camps on the map green.
or even makes other enemy camps red, because your team can counter gank someone on the opposite team
Camps behind the wave are safe exactly because of what you said; it is optimal to farm the lane creeps. So if someone is not farming the lane while it is pushed, they are either making a blunder or looking for you, so in those cases you go back. Not seeing someone at the wave, is pretty much the same as seeing someone on a ward.
The problem with not seeing someone at the wave at a lower level is that you never know if they are coming for you or they're simply not vigilant. When you underestimate them and overstay, they were actually looking for you and you die. When you assume they're playing it right and hunting you and so you back off, they were not vigilant and you lose out on juicy farm. It's just a lose-lose situation all around shaking my smh
@@bantaibaman5662 true, but it is still best to go somewhere safer. It is not best if you want to always win, but it still is the most consistent play, hence the one that helps you climb more.
If you want to one up going somewhere safer, call your team over so that you can have a fight in case something happens. But then you will complain "my team is not coming", so if you don't wanna rely on someone go back.
@@BionicReaper Yep agreed
this video by jenkins was such an eye opener when it came out, i think its one of the must watch video for every dota player; new or old. ofc only if they arent aware of this concept already, and its always nice to refresh on some of these ideas because mechanics can change, but vision over the game can carry over much readily through the patches
To expand on the farm priority discussion, priority is really only a hard rule in laning. The 1 and 3 get last hits in lane, the 4 and 5 focus on activity. The only position that usually holds true through the game regardless of team comp is position 1 - but that's still NOT universal. For example if your position 1 is Ursa who peaks early and has a pretty self-sufficient kit, your mid or even offlane (i.e. Razor) might end up being higher farm priority if the game goes long.
Other positions are way more fluid than 1 since 1 is almost always a gold vacuum hero. A good pos4 will often have more farm by the end of the game than pos3 in the current meta, because pos3 will usually be holding valuable auras and want to stay with the team and create opportunities to take objectives, while a pos4 will ideally be taking contested farm that's too dangerous to risk losing the 1 or 2; but because pos3 wants that early aura item spike, they get farm priority in lane to hit that spike as soon as possible while the 4 tries to be active and catches up later. Same deal if you run a scaling 3 and a utility 2, usually the 2 is just mid for the solo XP.
Also, when I was climbing MMR, I watched a lot of videos about strat, itemization, mechanic, pro plays etc. But whenever I'm in game I forgot all about it. So I literally had a checklist paper besides me when I play Dota to remind me what I should do and not do. Most of my checklist is from what I learned from Jenkins, Henry rawdota, gameleap dota 2, datoleong, gamerzclass dota 2 and etc. You could say because I tried my best to make sure my theories/plan happen, my game got easier and MMR keep pilling up. 😀
Camps behind creeps = green is not always true, due to the smoke point Grubby mentions. However, creeps pushed to a tower is always a check: are there enemies defending it, ones that should be defending it or ones that can kill you? If not, they're either inefficient or somewhere else. At this point the aware jungler knows (by omission) that they may be in danger, and the camp has turned from green to orange.
Sheeesh
Another banger Reaction video
Keep it up mate
One way to bring back a losing game as pos1, when team is contained and really beaten, is to farm the good spots on the enemy side, while pressuring the lanes so that the enemy splits up to defend. Then tp back to take a teamfight 5v4 or better odds. Risky, but better than a loss by doing nothing.
As a pos 3/4 Clockwerk spammer, it's very noticeable that in losing games I don't prioritize contesting the enemy jungle as much as in winning games. Offlaners need to turn the red into orange as they push and the orange into green as they gank.
People die when they are killed
-Grubby 2022
I like that u r not just simply grinding the game, but also taking ur time to learn some marco concepts. I've seen so much players that excel at micro yet struggle to realise they are not where they are supposed to be at a given time, which always costs them a game. If u were to just chain q and play the game u probably would have progressed rankwise, but I'm sure u would have hit a wall soon after.
Polo!
grubby explaining safe lane tier 1 in relation to camps and when and why it is safe to farm them is the most newbie friendly explanation
me see poor man shield, me cry about good old day
"Going Bankai" LMAO
i think it depends like if razor getting that bloodstone helps him snowball you farm priority naturally moves up and once you meet that timing you are start farming orange camps
Grubby, I just realized that you haven't tried Dota 2 Ability Draft game mode! I'm sure you will like it a lot, I learned a lot about Dota in general by playing this mode (it's official game mode like single draft etc).
1) I learned a lot about every hero's model (stats, attack animation speed and range, armor) because your build depends a lot on your hero.
2) Also you will feel what ability of each hero is actually making him strong and what are the strongest skills in the game. For example draw ranger without her ulty or slark without his passive are almost useless and Shiquchi or Reincarnation will make any hero really strong.
3) All game mechanics in this mode can really turn to their peak points. Damage reduction , attack range, spell lifesteal or spell amplification can become so overpowered by picking two or more abilities with it that you will fill like a raid boss.
4) The decision making on you itemization can also become a lot more situational and important. When the enemy team has an imba magic hero you can sometimes go for BKB or blademail first item.
5) My personal problem in Dota was that I was lazy to try some hard heroes like Storm Spirit, Earth Spirit, Invoker and other. Because to start playing them good you need to practice a lot and lose a lot of games. But Ability Draft allows you to try some of these hero's skills one by one in combination with other more simple ones.
This is a really fun and 100 times more various game mode, actually i'm addicted to it :) Waga, Buldog, Purge, Dandy love it. And it will be super fun and high quality content to be couched to play an Ability Draft by Purge or someone else. I will be truly happy to see you trying this mode!
He played in the tournament last week.
It depends on which lane did you dominate for ur hard carry to farm
A good way to deny gold is leaving the smallest creep from the stack alive when farming enemy jungle. You miss out on that one creep but the enemy misses out all the rest :)
Thats genius!will try to troll em like that after reading this
ever have thought of this but of they're pro or at least know how to stack it's also not that denying
Pros will tell you to never ever do this and if you watch 10k+ mmr replays they never do this either, most likely cause not killing the creep is inefficient as hell and it's just plain not worth to do it when you could farm that camp again in the near future, really 2k mmr tip there, just farm the creep, that's the whole point
@@SerechII pRoS nEvEr bLoCk CrEeP CaMpS! JuSt FaRm iT lOl!
@@LLlap you're a fool. Even your memes are 500mmr
ah yes, very familiar with my mid and support players AFK farming green camps while they blame me as position 1 for being behind
HOTS biggest advantage - not wasting time on endless farm and lasthits
Go bankai mode haha
So usually players knew lot of theories or strat like this and when everything goes well like the theories, they will win games. But the problems happened when the situation didn't go like the theories they learned and then they lost the game. From what I see, they usually knew theories like this but when something goes away from their theories they lose their composure and start doing bad decisions. They think theories are coincidence and something that happened naturally but A good player will make sure the game will go according to the theories they knew and try their best to control the variables that could make theories go awry. So my advice is to find a way to make sure the theories will happen according to your plan. You could say the team that could make their theories/strategies happen first have a higher chances of winning.
P.s- I'm not that high in MMR just around 4k-5k but I started from crusader.
people who can adapt at the game situation is better player
@@choixero2395 yes correct if you are playing solo. If you are playing as a team for example in TI or other big competition, they usually have a plan and try to stick to it. They do adapt to certain situations but most of the time they stick to their main plan. That's why we can see different teams have different play styles because they have their own plans. For example when Ana played IO in TI, do you think Ana just wing it or adapt on the spot or did Ana/OG already had theories/plan using IO?
if theres a 10k smurf in low ranks,everything becomes red camp...
Good morning Grubby!!
Mornin' !
i still to this day get yelled at for farming easy camps as support after the 10 minute mark
if there are wards to place or lanes to push or heroes that need ganking or towers being pressured and you are not near any important item timing you definitely should be yelled at for farming easy camps as support, your time/health/mana should be used to make sure your allies can farm those camps
@@SerechII and then get yelled at a minute later for not having an item they want me to have for a gank timing since i dont have the money you cant have it both ways
@@viktorgabriel2554 Yeah, I was just trying to say it's a case by case kinda thing, someone can be shitty about supports farming and someone can be a shitty support farming, it goes both ways, just fulfill your duties and farm when it's not gonna harm the overall flow of your team and you are fine
Hello Grubby!!!
Hello there!
broomhandle lol
Good morning Jenkins
Not optimizing farming isn't losing you MMR, it prevents you from gaining it. The distinction is very important. And should you care? Not in the slightest.
cool concepts. i think i'm pretty good at dota from before but never thought so deeply about the concepts like these videos
Hi Grubby, you made me check new map update today coz this map is new.... nope this map is 2 years ago. You got me!
Bro listen, If you want MMR, the best advice I can give you is this: PLAY HEROES WHO CONTROL MULTIPLE UNITS. Not only that those heroes are strongest heroes in DOTA 2, but you are guy who can naturaly control those heroes and those heroes are not pick by a lot of people due to being hard to play.
If you force to play, VISAGE, LONE DRUID, MEPO and so on, I think you will explode with MMR! Good luck, peace!
If you like zRubick then try ability draft. Might draw new viewers as well.
i lost 600 in a day Grubby. Love your content
Jenkins took his explanation to another level since GrubbyDota tried to apply his theory in one of his games.
Jenkins: this man(Grubby) is gonna surpass my skill level. I should be careful giving shortcuts and make it more complicated next time.
Time to watch BSJ Educational Smurf (part 1-7)
Camps actually have a proper categorisation.
Small/easy camp is the pull camp.
Medium camps are (mostly) the ones near the outposts.
Large/hard camps are the offllane pull camps and the ones closest to each team's mid t2/t3.
The type of camp it is dictates what can spawn in it. So wildwings can only spawn in hard camps, mud golems can only spawn in medium etc.
There is some overlap with what can spawn. Centaurs for example spawn at both, but the hard variant has an extra small Centaur.
The icons on the map for each camp show what rank they are, small camp only has a triangle, medium has a bar underneath, large has 2 bars, ancient has a double triangle icon.
Easy camp can be "red" if there are 5 enemy heroes near it.
@@gordonchristophertubo3164 I was talking about the proper categorisation of camps which grubby was a bit confused with. Not the weird terminology Jenkins is using.
What Jenkins is trying to say is that there are safe, risky and suicidal camps to take and these change based off of enemy positioning, proximity to tower and creep wave locations. Basically likelihood of encountering enemies when farming.
its just a game!
for us yeah... for them, they must analyze everything
Could 5 pros coach 5 3k players and beat a pro team?
I highly doubt that, since pro team is way more mechanically skilled than avg dota players. Even if you consider that they'll have same level of understanding/theory of the game. Just imagine how one sided the midlane match up would be, then after laning stage the midlaner from pro team could dominate the game.
He making the terms harder. Instead of saying green, orange, red. Green camp = safe camps. Orange camp = hard camp. Red camp = [enemy name] camp. If you're radiant that is a "dire camp" instead of red. If you're dire camp that is a "Radiant camp". It uses pre-existing dota terms and makes sense by itself.
the video is for low rank at the times so green, orange and red is more simple... in low rank they dont care whats is safelane or other
Hard camp exist already tho, as in hard camp medium camp and easy camp. They relate to the camp strength instead of location
as the poster above me pointed it out, there are already small, medium, and hard camp categorization. Thats why the green, orange, and red makes more sense.
color coding recognition is subconcious and way faster and easier to remember in your brain then conscious word and concept recognition such as enemy, dire, or whatever
More like "safe", "contested" and "dangerous". Colors make it easier to understand.
They run faster kekw
Since when is there a color coding of camps. It's just small camp, big camp, ancient camp on enemy/ally jungle. When a camp is with shrine and is captured by enemy, it should be considered as the enemy camps until taken back. Lol
Your viewership is plunging again, better switch to your bread and butter for the last 20 years man, dont let ToD be a better man than you
Those guides are for herald players who played 3 years and still stuck in herald stop watching lol love you grubby
Nah dude I found it useful!
jenkins said in the beggining that it is mostly for stuck guardians/heralds, old players who cant climb
Grubby literally says he watches the videos to incite conversation about DotA topics, he's not looking for the magic formula to get mmr, he's just looking at interesting dota videos that might make him reconsider some things ...
"Don't be mad, it's just a game..." Every loser says that!! It's Win or Die trying and if you Die(lose), well then you are a LOSER...Simple math there 😁
cringe ninja viewer or what? lol
Btw guys Happy is 10x better than Grubb at war3 and has alrdy made his name as the Greatest war3 player of all time. Period
2nd Moon, 3rd Sky.