The Making of the MCU was a Sh*t Show (Pt 3: Toying with Phase 2)
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- Опубликовано: 16 июн 2024
- Watch Part 4 here: / 98002216
Making movies for toys is hard. Let’s talk about how difficult it was to make Phase 2 of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, from Iron Man 3 changing scripts to sell more toys to Thor: The Dark World changing scripts to sell more toys or choosing to make Guardians of the Galaxy… to sell toys.
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Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
00:29 - Avengers Changes the Film Industry
02:01 - Establishing the Marvel Writers Program
02:52 - Drew Pearce’s Runaways
03:19 - Shane Black Replaces Jon Favreau
04:35 - Reconceiving The Mandarin
05:35 - Broken Ankles & Bankrupt Effects Houses
06:48 - Marvel Entertainment vs Marvel Studios
07:21 - Ike Perlmutter’s Creative Committee
08:26 - Superheroes in Toyland
09:31 - Rebecca Hall Can’t Sell Toys
10:26 - Iron Man 3: May 3, 2013
10:56 - Retconning The Mandarin
11:56 - Finding a Kenneth Branagh Replacement
12:40 - Patty Jenkins’ Thoromeo & Juliet
14:28 - A Livid Natalie Portman
14:58 - Alan Taylor Needs a Better Script
15:48 - Every Sh*t Show Trope
16:28 - Marvel Doesn’t Like Taylor’s Thor
17:04 - Marvel’s Reshoot Process
17:41 - 35 Days of Changes
19:17 - Thor: The Dark World: November 8, 2013
20:08 - Nicole Perlman Gets Her Shot
21:18 - Perlman’s Guardians of the Galaxy
22:43 - James Gunn Gets Superheroes
23:17 - Gunn’s Connection to Rocket Raccoon
25:05 - Tuning Guardians for Marvel
25:58 - A Production Left Alone
27:03 - Marvel Branded Kool-Aid
27:36 - Nicole Perlman vs James Gunn
28:29 - Guardians of the Galaxy: August 1st, 2014
Sources:
Badass Digest: bit.ly/3v9FPYE
BuzzFeed: bit.ly/47lodYp
bit.ly/3Srd3fB
CGSociety: bit.ly/3Oxiwz7
Cinema Blend: bit.ly/44BOGPQ
bit.ly/3u5uNTX
Collider: bit.ly/3McKSxd
bit.ly/49tMIDP
Cosmic Book News: bit.ly/471gHl4
Entertainment Weekly: bit.ly/3Ov0MEB
bit.ly/3swt1e2
Film Divider: bit.ly/3QM8z1U
Forbes: bit.ly/466WIQv
GQ: bit.ly/45HKIou
Guardian: bit.ly/46Ur6OP
Hollywood Reporter: bit.ly/3bQtTPC
bit.ly/44JGQ6C
bit.ly/3MePcvT
bit.ly/3Kx66VK
bit.ly/3FnHwn5
bit.ly/3FRyxLh
bit.ly/47oWUvx
bit.ly/47mfVil
Huff Post: bit.ly/495Esty
Inverse: bit.ly/3Mftg3U
bit.ly/3SmcxzH
LA Times: bit.ly/3KbFU2J
bit.ly/3YlYECo
MCU: The Reign of Marvel Studios: bit.ly/3u9Bvbx
Metro UK: bit.ly/3FpouwW
Page Six: bit.ly/46DYwS4
Script Magazine: bit.ly/3Qy05tV
SFX Magazine: bit.ly/45ozhCe
/Film: bit.ly/3s0fkTT
bit.ly/47h2oIq
The Story of Marvel Studios: bit.ly/46dfEx0
The Telegraph: bit.ly/46U2Mww
Toronto Sun: bit.ly/3KaJkmf
Uproxx: bit.ly/3KcwaoU
bit.ly/3S7sR7h
Vanity Fair: bit.ly/40Ad6I6
Variety: bit.ly/3QDX90u
bit.ly/4031TQ0
bit.ly/40HvD5g
Vox: bit.ly/3SNppz8
Vulture: bit.ly/3uTeHgA
WTF with Marc Maron: bit.ly/48iSaZe
Video:
Digital Spy: bit.ly/46X8yhx
GQ: bit.ly/46TDEpN
Hollywood Dosyasi: bit.ly/3FGKvYb
New York Film Academy: bit.ly/3FK8C8a
Rotten Tomatoes: bit.ly/474ARut
ScreenSlam: bit.ly/3QzDTje
TheWrap: bit.ly/3Qo8uQL
Featured Footage:
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. (2013-2020)
All Hail the King (2014)
Ant-Man (2015)*
The Avengers (2012)* Age of Ultron (2015)* & Endgame (2019)*
Batman Begins (2005)
Black Panther (2018)
Blade (1998)
Captain America: The First Avenger (2011) & The Winter Soldier (2014)
Captain Marvel (2019)
The Dark Knight (2008)
Doctor Strange (2016)
Eternals (2021)
Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer (2007)
Game of Thrones (2011-2019)
Guardians of the Galaxy (2014)* Vol. 2 (2017) & Vol. 3 (2023)
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (2007) & the Deathly Hallows: Part 2 (2011)*
Howard the Duck (1986)
The Incredible Hulk (2008)
Iron Fist (2017-2018)
Iron Man (1966)
Iron Man (2008) 2 (2010)* & 3 (2013)*
It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia (2005- )
The Killing (2011-2014)
Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005)
Luke Cage (2016-2018)
Mad Men (2007-2015)
Mandela: Long Walk to Freedom (2013)
Marvel 75 Years (2014)
Monster (2003)
Moon Knight (2022)
Parks and Recreation (2009-2015)
PG Porn (2008-2009)
Runaways (2017-2019)
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (2021)
Slither (2006)
The Specials (2000)
Spider-Man (2002)
Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace (1999)
Super (2010)
Thor (2011)* The Dark World (2013)* Ragnarok (2017) & Love and Thunder (2022)
Wonder Woman (2017)*
*and special features
Music:
Brian Tyler - Iron Man 3 & Thor: The Dark World OST
The Jackson 5 - I Want You Back
Redbone - Come And Get Your Love
Ryan Hudson - Sh*t Show Theme
Tyler Bates - Guardians of the Galaxy OST
#itwasashtshow #mcu #avengers 
Кино
damn, thanks for shining a light on Gunn's shitty tactics against Nicole Perlman.
I didn't know about this. Really disappointing to hear.
I will only believe it if I see evidence of it.
Agreed. Imagine Nicole shinned a light in those Gunn tweets that followed lol karma
@@Vanced-ii3bj this info has been out in the open for years,, but the video is really well sourced. you can see their sources in the video description.
the information in this video contradicts itself. apparently the entire script was the same but someone came in and did a revision and gunn came in not connected to the characters until he gave them backstory…idk.
sounds like she did get screwed over, but james gunn also sounds like he was involved more than shes letting on
Damn, I had no idea just how sleazy James Gunn was. I appreciate how this channel highlight's dodgy practices from popular people. So many channels would be too scared to even try to call out someone like James Gunn
Its the fact that the first one is arguably better, than the one he made with creative freedom in vol.3
@josay3394 Well yes, arguably. Guardians Vol. 3 is by no means a bad movie, and I think it's proof that Gunn has the chops as a filmmaker by his own merits. Good artists can still be shitty people. We saw it with Spider-Verse, we see it here, we see it everywhere in entertainment.
Dam 😕 disappointed to hear Gunn tried to pull a Paul Hogan. The plot continues to thicken.
great callback!!
@@maxlights6021 the funny part is i had to google “crocodile Dundee actor” to make it lol
What always gets me about the “we gotta sell toys” argument is that if you just make it good, the toys will fly off the shelves. That’s what the writers of the ‘80s G.I. Joe cartoon felt, for instance (and most of them spent much of the ‘70s writing for Marvel Comics). Whenever an exec (ESPECIALLY if it’s a toy exec) starts making story decisions for a movie or TV show or whatever in order to sell merch, it always gets worse and ends up poisoning the well, which leads to worse movies and poor toy sales.
@@thenightstar8312 Funny, because as I mentioned in my initial comments, that’s not how the writers of the G.I. Joe cartoon felt. Steve Gerber (creator of Howard the Duck at Marvel in the ‘70s), who had plenty of ill words for his time in animation, was generally proud of his Sunbow work, to name one example.
I’d spend more time on your woefully late reply, but I sense that you hate the bulk of ‘80s US TV animation out of hand and really aren’t worth my additional effort in discussing the merits of basically ANY show of the era.
My favorite part is where they said teenage boys wouldn't buy a Black Widow toy. That's in the top 5 stupidest things ever said by anyone.
It would have made more money then the rest of the MCU combined.
I am a fan of James Gunn but I gotta be honest it was pretty scummy of him to take credit away from Perlman. She gave the idea of the Guardians in the MCU in the first place. I feel like he probably wouldn’t this again considering how much he has grown, I hope he apologizes for what he did to Nicole because that’s actually kinda low.
Chris Pratt as Starlord is an inspired casting but there’s still a part of me that would like to see Glen Howerton as the character
100%!
Slar-Lord would've peaked all over us...
That’s still my favorite
You know, because of the implication *clenches jaw*
He’s gonna have to give us the orb… because of the implication
I didn’t know James Gunn wanted to hog all the credit like that.
I’m really glad he’s trying to be better.
as a woman who is a massive guardians fan and a fan of james gunn that was so disappointing to find out :( especially because i feel like gunn always creates the very three dimensional women characters who are just as (if not more) capable than the men around them. nobody is perfect though and i would like to think gunn has learned from this mistake. i think as a filmmaker getting his first big break with a company like marvel the greed took over and he couldn’t help but want the credit all for himself
Yeah, that is quite disappointing, but then again, he was an asshole back then, and what matters is that he is trying to be better in general. Everybody deserves a path to redemption.
@@cherrynoodles5516
Definitely understandable.
@@JackDespero Indeed. Online discourse is way too in love with the idea that any misstep can never be redeemed. I understand some cases, but James is easily working to get away from that and should be acknowledged rather than keep throwing old stuff back in his face.
I'm glad to see most people are being level-headed about this. He really does seem to have humbled and grown over the last decade, I just hope he acknowledges this and takes responsibility and ownership of it when he is able to address it without the threat of the Disney Legal team nuking him from orbit for speaking ill of them.
15:11 "Taylor had his work CUT out for him."
*Shows Ned Stark's head getting cut off*
LOL
Not just that. 18:18 They cut out lots of Malekith's parts to make him less in depth, which is usually being critized as one-dimension.
Poor 9th Doctor hardly voiced his complain about his treatments in Thor 2 for almost a decade until recently.
Just another classical case of "La flauta sonó por casualidad" (the flute made sound by chance). They struck gold, and they took all the wrong ideas from the success.
They basically killed what made some of their movies memorable to turn them into merchandising ads, which in turn made them less profitable AND worse as merchandising ads.
They felt too big to fail. That in spite of it all, they are a brand and people will always come back to a reliable brand. And now we saw how much that has shifted as of late that even being a reliable brand isn't a surefire key to success of some kind.
So, "human error" instead of bad luck?
Studios always make the same mistakes. “Oh! This movie was popular so we’ll just make 20 more just like it!!” The rise comedy & coming of age films in the 2000’s, & the rise of superheroes movies, and paranormal horror, in the 2010’s. The 2020’s trends haven’t become entirely apparent yet but I’m sure with time we’ll be able to look back and see some patterns.
These vids just never miss, especially since clint does everything.
Accurate
Thank you. I broke an NDA to get the word out best I could. But, you can reach way more eyes and ears. Nicole, Rebecca and Dave deserve the lions share of credit. Shane Black too for putting up with so much shit. Kevin and Gunn are no architects of anything except credit-taking. And the James Gunn party cupcakes were delicious.
I’m going to need you to step up the cadence of these videos. Love the podcast but these mini documentaries are some of the most fascinating $#!T on RUclips. The tone, pacing, and degree of depth you go into are all, as some disgruntled dude in a mo cap suit once said, “Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.”
Excellent video and addition to an already immaculate catalog of videos. Emperor’s New Grove is still my favorite but these avenger ones are pretty damn close.
Just finished watching the first two parts this morning, to see the third part live at its premier is truly a blessing
Sweet. You didn't have to wait 3 years! Haha
@ItWasAShtShow do we have to wait another 3 for part 4 to be on RUclips?😅
I bet that first, darker cut of The Dark World was way better than the final death-by-committee version
Let’s start a campaign: Release The Darker World!
Oof didn't know about James Gunn trying to discredit Nicole Perlman's contributions. He seems awesome and I love his movies but that was a really shitty thing for him to do. I hope he made amends of some kind.
Wait… you said in the end “you could watch part 4 right now” WHERE GOOD SIR?! Where is this gem!
Patreon
I just watched it, $5 on patreon was worth it.
You can’t just leave us with that Winter Soldier cliffhanger, man
Imagine pulling a shoulder out of socket, slipping a disk, and chipping 11 vertebrae and only being out for 1 month. I'd be out for the rest of my life.
I’ve been so excited for this!
Patty Jenkins might’ve directed Wonder Woman, but she also directed WW1984.
I remember watching Thor: The Dark World in theatres and right as the climatic ending concluded and malketh was defeated another person in the audience shouted "That's It".
*Sees Premiere:* It was inevitable...
Damn 4th Dimension
Finally! Been waiting for a follow up video for a long time! Thank you!
Man this is my second time watching all of these videos in this series. Thank you.
Love your videos! Behind the scenes drama is always so interesting. You present it so well.
The moments where I heard Clint put a genuine smile on my face.
Thank you
That's a weird way to spell Chris Pratt.
@@clintereksonare you THE Clint? Like confidently rocks a mom sown Superman cape Clint?
@@denim_akthis is me. I am him
I'd take Clint over Chris Pratt.
The video clips you chose to be behind your description of Ike Perlmutter control of Marvel are just *chef's kiss*
This channel is sooo good! your videos are always a joy to watch and also the love you show to your community! awesome video
I'm just finishing up the book "MCU: The Reign of Marvel Studios" the 429 page story now beautifully told in 3 parts by It Was A Sh*t Show.....Bravo !!!!!!!!!
Got a lot of interesting facts from that book for this video!
Great video. Thanks for making it. Look forward to more.
love your long vid formats. Enlightening and very entertaining!
This might be a bad analogy, but i think of the podcasts as a main meal, and these mini episodes as snacks. And damn you always release episodes exactly at the right time when i want a snack or when i want a main meal lol 😂 💜❤️💜
HES BACK I MISSED THESE
Glen Howerton as Starlord would’ve been amazing
I want him as Doom
Finally!!! Been waiting forever for this
I just have to say, I love every single video you have put out so much. Your quality is impeccable and your podcast is also amazing. I’m a supporter on Patreon and just want to thank you for the awesome content. My channel is pretty small still, but I have a lot of experience in motion, graphics and editing and storytelling, and we very definitely share niche. If you ever need some flashy VFX or motion graphics, I would love to help
Thanks for the support. Reach out on our Discord/Patreon so I have your details if I’m in need.
Waited literally years for part three!!
long time between drinks, but worth the wait, great job.
It's been how long since Part 2? I can't complain
Yay! Couldn't make it for the live release as I had D&D, but just tucking in now :D
Great video now i am waiting for part 4😂
As happy as I am to see this notification. I wish this was a podcast ep or this part was done with the podcast gang. Oh well. Much love coming your way from the Middle East.
i dont even like the mcu but i LOVE sh!tshow, today is a good day
was great hearing clint, but ian where is part 4 29:37 ???
edit: i realize now you mean on patreon but i mustve missed that before
This may just me being drunk and rambling tbh but ffs you are wone of my favorite RUclips Creators right this moment. I plea for you to be featured more in the algorhythm of the almighty RUclips, because you deserve it! Even some of your podcasts are interesting to me! And that comes from someone who doesnt watch/listen to podcasts! Keep up the amazing work! It hopefully one day will get ya a million subs, and a million in revenue! Thank you so much for these (for me at least) highly rewatchable videos! My life would be at least a little more sad without them.
Thank you, this means a lot! Glad you enjoy them so. I’ll pour one out for you!
Top-notch, as always.
Great as always!
The goat is back
Didn't knew that Gunn was kinda of an asshole. I wasn't aware of that part of the story.
Also, you're telling me Iron man 3 and The Dark World coul've been..... good, like actually good movies that tell good entertaining stories but these comitee assholes nerfed them and almost ruined Guardians too but they let it slide bc they didn't give a shit about the project and tought people wouldn't give a shit either, almost hoping for a failure that would give them more creative power to ruin art inserting their senile product placement toy selling agenda.
Me want part 4!
had no idea about james gunn trying to discredit the first female writer! that is crazy! i thought i liked james gunn…
When will you guys release the fourth part? I'm really excited. I would have bought it if I had a lot of money but i'm a broke student!
Where’s part 4??
Also wondering about part 4...
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat????? Thanks for putting this out brother!
This was a really good watch
21:40 - 21:53 is a hilarious reference haha
been looking forward to this more than any marvel films that came out lately
I’m not sure if I’m sad or thankful that Glenn Howard was turned down for Star Lord. Easily some of my favorite Sunny episodes with him came out around that time so the show probably would’ve really changed.
Can't wiat for pt4
It's literally never darkest before dawn. It's the same amount of light as during dusk...
when will part four be on RUclips?
Holy shit. Thank you, Nicole Perlman, for writing one of my favorite movies ever!
Love these formats! And how are you able to watch part 4 right away? 👀
Release the Alan Taylor cut!!!😂😂
Do we need to set to the premiere days before the video comes out?
Cant wait for the Phase 3 video now 😭
Coming in 2029
14:20 Patty Jenkins directed 'Wonder Woman' she didn't write it. Patty Jenkins wrote and directed 'Wonder Woman 84' which was garbage, so lets not put her too high on that pedestal. As bad as 'Dark World' is, I shutter to think how it would've been if Patty Jenkins had wrote it.
There’s a lot of flawed logic in that comment.
YAAAAS IAN, you've done it!
Once again great to have such detail regarding the phase 2 MCU including the BS around the committee and Female voices.
❤❤
Does anyone know any channels that discuss the mentioned Magic Kingdom film Favreau worked on?
Great video as always!!! Do you think you could make a video of the DC cinematic universe someday now that it’s over?
I thought about it. Because it's all so ridiculous! But I don't want this channel to be just superhero stuff.
@@ItWasAShtShow If you really want to dive into serious shitshows, how about Valerian movie, or the Witcher or Halo TV shows.
When is pt4 released on RUclips for us mere mortals?? 😂
I enjoyed Dark World, but admit to loving Ragnarok. However, i knew if they had Taika do another one, he’d fuck it up. And fuck it up he did, completely… he flicked too hard, dammit…
27:49 That's quite a significant assertion. It's essential to back it up with evidence.
If only the video was LITTERED with ON SCREEN sources...
@@ItWasAShtShow No kidding. Just put the source in the description.
@@ItWasAShtShow You have the sources in the description, but I can't tell which one is based on the James Gunn 'writer credit' controversy.
Is part 4 going to be on youtube eventually?
Don't hold your breath.
I watched part 2 the other day
FYI, Iron Man 3 was distributed by Disney, not Paramount
Where is part 4 😢
Where can I watch part 4 😅
It’s I retesting how every decision they made in the beginning made them tons of money. Then they went back on all those ideas that wouldn’t make money from toys and now the franchise is tanking fast.
The Runaways is actually one of Marvel's better shows IMO. Of course it gets zero push
Had no idea that the first new Dr.Who was even in a Thor movie.
We can watch part 4 right now? Did I mishear that? Where is it? I know these things take a lot of work so I figured there would be more time between them being released.
Sounds like from watching this video and reading articles, Gunn did a substantial amount in giving the depth and details people love about Guardians to be worthy of credit.
Now his tactics (if true) are pretty scummy and I hope he’s learned and maybe even apologized to Perlman. The crowd Gunn ran in back in 2014 was way different from now and I hope he’s reflected on this time and grown.
That’s all we can really hope for.
Where do I watch Pt. 4
29:36 Where? HOW? Desire to know more intensifies!!!
Check the description 👀
@@ItWasAShtShow I can’t read 😞
Still waiting for part 4
Why? It’s in the description.
look even KNOWING how the writing went now..?
I STILL feel like Thanos' involvement was 'intentionally' vague for the earlier movies, like he was intentionally using middlemen and keeping his name out of it for as long as possible.
yes, I now know how all of this is wishful thinking since i know it was due to writers being told to change stuff mid shoot
but it still FEELS consistent.
Where is part 4?!?!
29 hours? Nope…need it now…gimme
Please and thank you:-)
Where's part 4 tho?
I feel like some members of the creative committee should have stayed obviously the A**holes were rightfully kicked out, but without someone else to bounce his ideas and control off Feige just kept on thinking he could do no wrong. At one point seeing the successes he had with movies after the creative committee I would thought yeah he is always completly right, but that 3 year period (meaning from 2016 to 2019) of euphoria ended and reality is creeping in for fans. Feige isn't bad but he is just like Lucas or M night people who need other people (whether good or bad) to nudge in the right direction.
P.S I knew from beginning there was no 10 year plan as Feige & other fanboys proclaimed. They just kept tweaking things as they went along and changed things that made no sense that's natural for any ongoing story.
Bro PLEASE make a Saturday Night Live Edition of It was a Shit Show. Maybe break it up into parts since it’s such an extensive history. I’d love to help you edit
knowing that your marvel movies will be on your streaming platform for a significantly lower price is what is killing the box office returns
Disney, Netflix and Amazon should buy up the faltering cinema chains and heavily discount admission for its members, they could afford to do this as they own the chains and most of the properties being shown plus the real money is in the snack market in a busy theatre
Part 4?
Don't hate on Digital Domain. They are masters who do great things.
No hate. They just got screwed by Disney and Marvel.
James Gunns actions are so disappointing, lost for words
Part4?
Phase 2 is when the MCU was still great
19:57 IDK chief . It wasnt marve's year for like 3 years now. I think IN comparison with recent movies. DW is pretty good
Hey chief. Spell check.
WHY DOES IT SAY I CAN WATCH PART FOUR RIGHT NOW??? lol
Rocket Raccoon’s the key, if we can get him working…