Selecting the right radon mitigation system installers
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- Опубликовано: 7 июн 2024
- See the difference in the quality of radon mitigation systems installed by different contractors. Selecting the right radon mitigation installer can make a big difference in whether or not the radon levels actually reduce and stay low.
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There are several comments and critiques on this post regarding this radon mitigation project. We would like to answer some of the questions that were brought up:
1- Several comments mention that the new vent stack does not have a cap on it. This is the most common question we get in radon mitigation. Our answer is no, a cap is not needed on the top of a radon mitigation system. The systems are designed in a negative slope to allow water to drain through them. The majority of the water within a radon system comes from condensation and a cap does nothing to prevent condensation from dribbling down into the fan. The radon fans are specifically approved for wet environments and can easily withstand any condensation, rain or snow that may enter the 3' or 4" opening of the exhaust pipe. Our first license was in the State of Illinois. Illinois is arguably the most regulated state for radon in the country. If you look up 32 IL ADM CODE 422, you will see: "Vent stack discharge points shall be directed vertically with no obstruction in the discharge except for a rodent screen of wire mesh no smaller than ¼ inch. The rodent screen or wire mesh shall be installed in a manner that allows for easy removal for cleaning. Rain caps shall not be installed on the discharge." ILLINOIS CODE SAYS THAT WE CAN'T INSTALL A CAP, COVER, 90 BEND OR GOOSENECK. We have also witnessed many situations in the cold climates where we work that rodent screens and caps tend to be places where condensation can collect, freeze and restrict flow of the radon system. It is best to allow the exhaust to blast straight up into the air so it can't re-enter the windows, doors and openings. Of the 10,000 plus systems we have installed over the past 13 years, there have been about 5 critters that have entered a radon system. We prefer the system to freely exhaust the radon gas rather than potentially be obstructed by a 1/4" screen. If you want to know what critters do the most damage to radon systems, its insects. Screens and caps do not stop little insects from falling down and accumulating in the radon fans.
2- There is great debate in the radon industry of which materials are better. Aluminum downspout has been widely accepted throughout the industry and is clearly accepted in the Illinois radon mitigation code which is one of the most strict. Personally, I prefer schedule 40 PVC for vent stack material because it is quieter and more durable that downspout. PVC is also easier to install than downspout. Even though we currently push for more PVC vent stacks, we do have many customers who request downspout and we do not have issue with installing systems with it. Downspout systems do look nicer than a round PVC pipe on the side of a nice house. Whenever we install a system using downspout, we certainly caulk screw together ever joint and connection. It would be difficult for air to leak from these.
3- There are a few mentions of the vent stack elevation. All vent stacks in residential installs must exhaust 2' higher than any window that is closer than 10' away. The system depicted vented at an elevation greater than 2' in both before and after instances.
4- Schedule 20 (thinwall) pvc vs. schedule 40 pvc is another debate within the industry. We choose to use schedule 40 on all of our installs because the Illinois radon code does not allow the schedule 20 (thinwall) PVC to be used. We believed that this was a good practice so we have continued to use the schedule 40 even in unregulated markets where we could get away with using the other material.
5- High suction vs Low suction fans. There are three major radon fan manufacturers in the country and they all make great fans. Each company makes a range of models for different soil conditions. There are high flow fans that work well in loose, granular soils, crawlspaces and situations where you can add suction to a sub-slab, perforated pipe network. The high suction fans are designed for restrictive soils like sand, clay, natural dirt and wet soils. The vacuum pressure is dependent on the fan model and the resistance of the soil. In the video, the sub-slab system is pulling air from a dense, natural fill. The high flow fan in not able to achieve adequate pressure field extension in these soil conditions. The high suction fan can pull a higher static pressure than the high flow fan which helps stretch the pressure field to further stretches under the slab. There is a second system on that home that is dedicated to the crawlspace. That system is tied into a perforated pipe that lays below the crawlspace membrane. Because the perf pipe and vapor barrier are a low resistance situation, that system was installed using a high flow fan.
6- We seal crawlspaces with 10 MIL vapor barrier, overlap the seams by 12" and pin the perimeter to the foundation walls using furring strips. The person who filmed this video did not capture the crawlspace in its entirety or when it was finished. He just quickly jumped down to catch some footage while the workers were taking a break but were not finished. That particular crawlspace was a very short and uncomfortable one. That is probably why the first company didn't want to seal it and also why the camera guy did not crawl around to get better footage. Crawlspaces are not fun places! :)
7- We have installed 10,000 plus radon systems in areas all over the country. Almost all of the systems have a performance warranty. We do not perform the confirmatory radon tests, our customers hire a third party to make sure our systems work. We also don't offer radon testing services because, as we stated earlier, we got our start in Illinois and Illinois does not allow a company to test and mitigate their own work. We have kept that culture of avoiding that conflict of interest. We have radon fans that are still running that I personally installed 13 years ago. We try hard to serve people with high quality work. The intention behind this video was to demonstrate the differences in systems and do some research before getting quotes. The big issues in this particular one was that the original system didn't fix the radon levels mainly because the high flow fan was not pulling adequate suction under the dense substrate and also the fact the the crawlspace was left unsealed. When a person gets three quotes and finds one to be drastically less money, there is usually a reason. We came in and fixed the problem. We would have fixed the problem the fist time had we been the original installer. We also provided that client with a radon reduction warranty which they did not receive with the original installer.
We ask that if you have any questions or suggestions, please feel free to contact us. We are absolutely open to suggestions and discussions. We take pride in what we do and are always seeking to improve.
You didn’t show the radon levels before and after
All this guy is saying is that if you call him he is going to sell you some expensive pvc pipe and charge you an arm for it
Schedule 20 pipe is used in central vacuum systems. Surely there is more psi in a vacuum system with a 2 inch pipe than there is in a 4 inch, open ended exhaust pipe.
Cudos on your marketing. I like how your attention to detail is explained. Customers are able to understand the components and see the difference in a application that lasts longer, probably does a better job and is more attractive.
excellent video my friend! Any connections in Saskatchewan, Canada you can recommend?
Travis and his team did a great job in my opinion. I see a lot of comments with concern about not seeing a cap at the top of the system. I place a mesh gutter guard at the top of my systems just inside the pipe which is NOT visible. This may very well have been what they did. It will prevent leaves or animals from getting in but water is not a concern as radon systems produce approx 1 gallon of condensation a day. The water is pitched down and just simply seeps into the ground under the home. Cheers!
Are you using gutter trough as the outside downspout? I see sheet metal screws connecting sections on that. Can that possibly be air tight.? You are close to windows . Is that fan on a dedicated gfci/afci circuit? Is the exit far enough away from the soffits? You couldn’t have used 4inpvc and picked up the crawl space with a properly sized fan as opposed to hitting the customer for an encapsulation and another pipe run, not to mention two continuously running fans. I’m just asking I don’t work in the radon mitigation field
The gutter for a vent looks stupid. It a square cut and no mess or screen over the top. A gutter is not air tight, so the radon will leak in the seam.
Hi, what kind of coupling was used to transition from the fan to the aluminum down spout? Also, is the aluminum down spout a standard size?
Is the level over 4.0 with their set up?It’s a vent pipe. Thin wall is acceptable . Aluminum downspout? How much more does that cost. If I’m getting quotes I’m more worried about functionality and longevity vs cosmetics
Your high suction fan should have 3" pipe. Thin wall pipe is fine for residential installations. I don't understood why contractors push the narrative that sch 20 pipe is somehow not ok to use in Radon systems. I understand that sch 40 is stronger, but it's not necessary. If stronger pipe such a major concern, why not use sch 80 metal pipe? You also mentioned that sch 40 pipe is thicker, thus making the system more quiet, but at the same time convert your pipe to very thin walled downspout on the outside, which is much louder than thin walled pipe. Keep in mind, I'm not against using downspout for exhaust. It's just counterproductive if noise is a concern. All the costs of these unneeded materials get passed down to the client and have no impact on the effectiveness of the system. Those white Fernco boots you used will get extremely dirty in a short period of time, making the system look more unattractive in the long term. Trust me, we've made that mistake and stopped using them. All of the practices you and the previous installer used are acceptable (with the exception of the electrical). I honestly think that your installation was pretty unattractive and I wouldn't have used that as an example of "doing it right" but that's just my opinion. Your work seems to be done right and I respect that. I only have a problem with your overall message that other people's work is unacceptable and your work is high quality. Just my two cents.
Considering how heavily overcharged these installations are, the cost of materials is nothing by comparison...
According to the article I'm posting and other, so called, radon experts, the higher powered fan you installed made the system less functional compared to the original fan. See the article. www.rdsenvironmental.com/blog/how-to-read-a-manometer-on-your-radon-system/
@@donshelton7332 Article you posted talked about reading the manometer... What you've stated' i.e. higher fan will produce a poor result, doesn't make sense at all...
SiLaHtAr you are correct, my fan comment was incorrect.
Keith Rogers just my two cents...sch 40 is quieter only inside.....out side it really doesn’t matter
This guy is so full of it. Thin Wall pvc is fine for moving low pressure air. The electrical shut off outside was at least 3 inches above the ground using liquid tight box and conduit. You are having much bigger concerns if the water is high enough to infiltrate the box.
They should of done a retest to see what the levels are to show how bad it was. A scam video. Yes there was things that didn't look good, like plugging in to and outlet.
That fan looks like an rp 265. With harder soil like it looks like they had under the slab, 2.3 is actually pretty good.
Don't be a hack
Is it OK to go with 3 inch SCH 40 I already have a hole in my concrete side foundation and two walls so I thought it be easier to use that stuff
I would like to know if we are getting radon because of the bad odor that comes from our sump pump holes in the basement
How to you vent a System that is a house built on a slab on accessible so basically concrete If the Joyce on top of that
So what is the price for all your changes?
No testers on systems as a standard??
Nice info, should be there a cap on top of that line? to prevent rain or birds nest? what should be there by code?
And second, how to determine the motor fan should be. I need one, on Amazon 3 type of Max. operating pressure. My house is 3000 s/ft.
Is it okay to have it outside if my state has freezing temperature? thank you!
In most places, as understand it, you cannot cap or cover the exhaust with anything other than a screen with openings no larger than 1/2 inch. Rain, snow, etc.... only account for a very small amount of water compared to the condensation that will be in the pipe so the fans are rated to work in wet conditions.
At 8:40, at the very top, it shows the downspout with no cap/cover.
Won't rain, snow, or even birds fall in?
Won't that block or break the fan prematurely?
In most places, as understand it, you cannot cap or cover the exhaust with anything other than a screen with openings no larger than 1/2 inch. Rain, snow, etc.... only account for a very small amount of water compared to the condensation that will be in the pipe so the fans are rated to work in wet conditions.
We don't use caps on top of the systems. These can collect condensation, freeze and restrict flow. They also add to the noise of the exhaust. 32 IL adm code 422 mandates that the radon exhaust goes straight up and that a cap shall not be installed. We have chosen to follow the Illinois code in that state and elsewhere. In over 15 years of doing this, I have only witnessed a handful of occasions where critters have fallen into a vent stack. It truly is rare. If your name refers to bronzebacks and in smallmouth bass, that is cool!
@@RadonRemoval Thanks for your reply.
And yes, bronzeback is referring to the fish smallmouth bass.
I live in Manitoba, and love fishing, pound for pound they are probably the best fighting fish in the province.
Snow and rain may get in but the chance that a bird falls in is extremely low. The bird would have to trip/fall/die exactly above the opening of the downspout opening. The chances of a bird falling or dying in that exact, precise location is extremely small. Thank you for your concern but the bigger issue would be water in the form of rain and/or snow. Keep up the good comments though.
@@bostonjackson9384 I live in Winnipeg Manitoba, Canada, it's very cold in the winter, or even spring or fall, I have bird's fall down my chimney more then once!
You can see them from outside, sitting around the chimney trying to keep warm, I guess sometimes they lose their balance and fall in, once their in, they can't fly out because there is no room.
What are the specs you look at when installing a hi-suction fan vs a hi-volume one?
Hi Mark, the fan manufacturers make several different models of their radon fans. We have had success with all of the major radon fan manufacturers. Each fan has a fan curve chart provided by the manufacturer that will show CFM vs Water Column pressure. The high suction fans typically achieve further pressure field extension than the high flow fans when you are dealing with dense soils. The high flow fans will typically achieve further pressure field extension when dealing with porous soils or low restrictive sub-membrane systems on large footprints.
awesome information. I need a system here Georgia. If you’re interested.
Drain pipe instead of pvc?? Seems like a bad idea.
I don't understand why there isn't a small air inlet place under the slab at farthest point from radon evacuation system. Wouldn't a small air inlet further aid in removing the gasses from under a home?
The radon exhaust pipe points straight up. What does a heavy rain do the the radon fan/pump?
Yea idk wtf that's all.about
Thanks for your question. We made a detailed comment because this question came up several times. We started in Illinois where they have a very strict radon code. The Illinois radon code states: "Vent stack discharge points shall be directed vertically with no obstruction in the discharge except for a rodent screen of wire mesh no smaller than ¼ inch. The rodent screen or wire mesh shall be installed in a manner that allows for easy removal for cleaning. Rain caps shall not be installed on the discharge." We have chosen to follow this in other areas as well. Radon fans last a long time. We still have customers from over ten years ago that are still running the original fan, straight vent stack and all.
Sadly the consumer gets screwed again! The first contractor did several things poorly not to code and the owner apparently has to pay twice now since I'm sure he wasn't refunded for the first job. I would add a vent cap to the top of the gutter pipe used and the vapor barrier in that crawl space looks really disjointed. Otherwise electrical, piping look correct.
Hi Jack, the crawlspace footage in this video was before it was completed. The camera person jumped down there and got a few clips while the crew was taking a break. As a standard, we seal crawlspaces with min 10 MIL vapor barrier and fasten it to the foundation with furring strips. The edges are sealed plus the seams are sealed and taped. We do not use caps because we were first licensed in Illinois where the code does not allow a cap. This is from 32 IL code 422 "Vent stack discharge points shall be directed vertically with no obstruction in the discharge except for a rodent screen of wire mesh no smaller than ¼ inch. The rodent screen or wire mesh shall be installed in a manner that allows for easy removal for cleaning. Rain caps shall not be installed on the discharge." We have chosen to continue this practice because we have seen caps be frozen over by condensation in the cold climates of our markets. We agree, it is a shame that someone would have to pay two different contractors to solve the problem.
I'm not expert but isn't the suction supposed to be 1"? the suction seems to be the same as before.
Can you put a window ac in a window that’s below the mitigation system?
Also, what do you do when the electricity goes out? We’d have to have a power generator right?
Windows, typically cannot be within 10 ft. from the exhaust port. As for electricity outages, your incidental exposure to radon during that short time of a power outage will be insignificant. Especially after the system is sealed.
Why did you use white aluminum downspout for the venting portion exiting the radon fan? Isn’t it standard to use Schedule 40 PVC for the entire radon mitigation system?
I just installed a fan and a pipe for 100 USD in my house i Sweden (drilled a 100mm hole by my self) and it works well....cant find any radon now!! My tips is test by your self before you hire "expensive know how experts"....
That exhaust is way too close to those windows and a bunch of rain and snow is getting in that fan.
I will like to know where u are located at I need a estimate for a house I'm buying
Illinois
@@hmpz36911 Does Illinois have cities and/or counties that can help narrow down the servicing area or is it all just one big place?
@@bostonjackson9384 It's pretty much just one big place.
@@hmpz36911 Thanks for the helpful details.
@@bostonjackson9384 Hey no problem
PVC PIPE = NOT UV RATED = PIPE IS NOT PAINTED OR WRAPPED IN SOMETHING TO STOP UV FROM PIPE.
Why is it not legitimate to utilize the steel vent stack of the furnace / water heater? Seems like a perfect exit, going up the chimney flu with the natural gas fumes.
The pipe wall thickness was fine, its only air.
Todd Kratzer it’s not only air. It’s air that is pressurized which exerts more force against the pipes. Also, thicker means less maintenance , less cracks, more durable, etc.
Not only that, quieter.
It’s not code for Illinois
It’s pulling 1” of water column and the discharge is atmospheric pressure. There is no “pressure”
@@BwantleyBoo Pressurized air is heavier?? LOL.
Nice job. We did a similar video about an install this company did on a home my sister was renting. The company threatened legal action unless we took the video down.
Homebuyers need to be aware that when you require the seller to install a radon mitigation system, they usually go with the cheapest contractor. Unfortunately, this leaves the home with a radon system of poor quality, effectiveness and radon levels that could still be elevated.
You get what you pay for.
As opposed to the highest cost system that is bought under duress??
Also the top of the stack will allow rain / snow to enter. The pump will take on water. That pump will last one year at best.
No cap over discharge pipe, straight pipe to exhaust, Illinois code
Hi Brian, we understand your concern because this is the most common question people have about these systems. Radon fans are made to withstand water. The majority of water in a radon system comes from the condensation within them. We just made a detailed comment above describing the reason why there is not a cap on the system.
Nice job.Theres a lot of Hacks out there! Keep up the good work ..
I'm surprised you did not conduct a test of the new fan to check cfm. I think the downspout looks horrible. Not impressed, sorry.
We do micromanometer tests to check pressure field extension under the slab. As for the downspout, it's widely used throughout the industry. Some people like it and others do not. Many customers request it because their neighborhood has systems with it. I personally prefer PVC too. I wrote a blog article about the radon system on my personal house many years ago. I used painted schedule 40 PVC. The paint looks as good as the day I installed it.
Need to rethink an open downspout. Rain, snow, animals, etc will get into the downspout and cause damage to vacuum.
The outlet is uncovered from rain/snow/etc.... shouldn't you put at least a 90° up there?? Wth
In most places, as understand it, you cannot cap or cover the exhaust with anything other than a screen with openings no larger than 1/2 inch. Rain, snow, etc.... only account for a very small amount of water compared to the condensation that will be in the pipe so the fans are rated to work in wet conditions.
I like to put Radon on my asbestos sammich
This company is talking about other companies short coming, yet their discharge pipe goes straight up and will let water in and also has no guard to keep birds and critters out.
All I'm hearing is you putting another company down and trying to make yourself look good. A True pro would not go that route and just clearly explain things without having to resort to bad mouthing others. Also that system shouldn't be that close to a window and the vent needs to be 2' above the roof with a cap
What’s the code for that state?
Just saying
Definitely not just trying to badmouth. This was a situation where the customer went with the lowest bid and didn't get an adequate system. They called us because they couldn't get the original installer out to help get the radon levels to reduce after they installed the system. Our intention was to demonstrate different situations that can occur. The vent stack in the original install and in the new system were both greater than 2' above the windows. The cap issue has been covered in detail in our long comment above.
First of all downspout is never okay on the outside stack, he never mentions original levels and what the original system got them down to nor does he mention what his system got levels to, and being a radon mitigation technician I know the fan that was on there was a high suction fan and the fan he put on was the competitor of the fan we use. He's just a tool trying to act like he knows what he's doing.
As a professional motivator mistakes were done by both parties
Hi craig, downspout is in the Illinois radon code. If you drive around the Chicago market, you will see downspout radon systems all over the place. Downspout is widely used throughout the industry as a vent stack material. With that said, we have been pushing more and more for our customers to choose PVC because it is quieter and creates less condensation that metal downspout. I personally prefer PVC vent stacks and installed one on my house. Some people just want the downspout because all of their neighbors have it. Whenever we install a downspout system, we thoroughly caulk the seams and joints. The other installer used a RP265 on clay soil. This was not a high suction fan. At the time of the video and specifically now, we have no interest in pushing any particular manufacturers product. That fan could have been replaced with a GP501 or an Eagle for the soil conditions in that suction pit. That RP265 is a great fan for large homes and crawlspaces with high flow situations. We have used all the fan manufacturers and feel like they all make good products. This person called us because the radon was still elevated and the others wouldn't come out and help them. We warrantied our system at 2.7 and the homeowner had an independant measurement provider to the post mitigation testing because we like to keep that separate. They also have a digital monitor. Next time you're at the radon symposium introduce yourself, I'd love to chat and am open to collaborating on ideas, process and innovations. I think you'd probably think I'm a pretty humble person if we met.
Nice job,much improved, but a total waste of time and money. Houses with high radon readings have lower cancer rates,look it up.
Radon scare = complete scam.
too close to windows
Hi gunsmokezz, thanks for watching the video. As far as proximity to windows goes, radon mitigation standards state that the vent stack exhaust must be two feet above or at least ten feet away from any window, door or other opening to conditioned space. A list of current radon mitigation standards can be found here www.epa.gov/radon/publications-about-radon
In this video, even the system we removed was an acceptable distance from the windows. The exhaust point of the system we replaced it with is greater than ten feet above the ground, more than two feet above the windows and greater than twelve inches above the roofline. All seams in the aluminum downspout are sealed and the radon fans do not spill air. Please feel free to contact us if you have any other questions or concerns. www.RadoVent.com
The good thing about those turn and burn companies making their systems look ugly on the outside, is it can easily identify which houses have a crappy system and easily sell them a better one!
I disagree with a lot of things this guys says. One, ideally that pipe should be near the center of the foundation so as to pull air from all sides as evenly as possible. Not pull from the edge of the foundation. Two, pulling a vacuum isn't rocket science. 3" is more than enough to remove the radon. Most homes in the South only require a passive system. So a fan pulling is even 1" is a major improvement. Do not allow a radon test after it rains.....obviously the soil around the house will not vent the radon like it is when it's dry. Radon tests are seriosly money makers.....BE SMART!!!!
Thanks for the comment we do not have a problem with discussion. In response to your comment about suction point location, we and many other radon mitigators have found the opposite to be true in many situations, especially in homes where they did not bring in backfill before pouring the slab. What we find is that there is a layer of disturbed soil adjacent to the footings from where the contractor had to backfill their trenches from the footing forms. This disturbed soil can created the slightest void along the edge of the footing that helps the radon system pull around that footing edge. In many homes we work on, the center of the slab is over soil that was just scraped by the excavator. This soil is more often the most dense soil under the home. I can tell you that it is much easier to obtain pressure field extension in our areas when you tap into that old backfill from the footing forms. I agree, radon mitigation is definitely not rocket science! In many cases it is an art. From the 10,000+ systems we have installed in areas all over the country, we have noticed that construction styles and soil types vary from one part of the country to the other. What works in one area may not work in the other. The goal is always to create the best pressure field extension as you can so that the radon is pulled toward the suction of the fan. As far as water column pressure, a common pressure from a standard high flow fan will be around 1" when there is granular fill like gravel or a perforated pipe network under the slab like in passive radon systems. You would commonly see three inches of water column pressure in high resistant soil situations with the high suction fans. For instance, if you were pulling 3" water column with one of the industry standard high suction fans and you replaced that fan with one of the industry standard high flow fans, that high flow fan would read around 2" water column because that is the max suction in that type of fan. If you are pulling max water column in the high flow or high vacuum fan, you will be moving little to no air (radon) at all. It's all about installing the best model of fan for the conditions you are presented with. We are glad to see that you are seeing success in the south with passive systems. Many homes are being built nowadays with radon resistant new construction techniques. Passive systems rarely can be installed in a functional way in existing homes. Feel free to call us up and chat if you'd like.
Just a way of using common sense... This should be stop.... We cannot pollute the air we breath.. Let all the radon stay underground that's why it's being design by the Maker.. If your house is positive for radon just cover the flooring with thick carpet or whatever plastic carpet that radon can't escape through it.. Second an air suction can be place just on top of the floor but not boring a hole underground .. Earth is humongous.. please stop doing this we will all be breathing radon if every household will try to remove radon from the ground where it is supposed to be where it is right now.. Please please avoid doing this..
The amount of radon being exhausted in negligible .