Hey gang, well this has certainly been a popular video! Obviously I normally try to reply to all the comments but that's proving to be a bit more difficult this time. Please know though that I am reading them all even if I'm not able to respond to each and every single one. Don't forget to be kind and courteous to each other in the meantime and thanks for watching 😃
What people are not really discussing is the cost especially when we’re in the middle of a cost of living crisis. End of 2023 reports are the British standard of living has dropped to levels of the 1950’s when they compared £ for £ equivalent. I’ve only just started but everything is going to be 2nd hand & build from scratch.
@@Sean.hinchlffe I think a lot of people are discussing the cost. Every time I review a loco there are complaints about how high the price is. But as you've pointed out, there are more ways to enjoy the hobby than just buying the absolute latest release.
May I congratulate you on your channel, it’s the best I’ve seen on construction. It will be helping me when I build my layout. Especially the embankments & bridges. I’ve just built my baseboard & frame. Is it best to paint the baseboard ? If so do I use gloss paint ? Many thanks once again
@@Sean.hinchlffe Thanks Sean, glad you've been finding the videos useful. Personally I don't tend to paint the baseboards but instead I give the overall base layer of landscape a coat of dark brown to act as a base layer. I literally just use cheap acrylic for this though.
As per usual the media get their snouts in trough and everything gets hyped, just like we are in the middle of ww3 and facing conscription. lMAO. Hattons lost a lot of trade by upsetting Bachmann, self inflicted imho, just saying
One thing that bothers me immensely about the British 00 model railway scene is the absolute stagnation when it comes to which kinds of models are being produced. There is almost no modern-image rolling stock available ready-to-run by any of the main(-ish) manufacturers! All of the important EMUs that are and were a daily sight to millions - the Electrostars, the 321s, the 319s, the Aventras, several kinds of Desiros, 365/465 Networkers and the PEP units - are totally absent from the modelling scene. It is basically impossible to create a realistic modern-image UK layout, because there is so little modern rolling stock. I'm sure that if the manufacturers actually built the stuff that people see every day, there would be renewed interest in maybe acquiring some of those models for oneself. I refuse to believe that all the Brits want a 37th variation of a GWR ten-wheeler or some NER 0-6-0 goods engine. Modern image has to be properly represented, starting with the most common types first.
As an American, that's really funny because we have the opposite problem. With the loss of IHC, Proto 2000, and Bachmann Spectrum, we have a huge lack of steam locomotives. Unless you want a massive 4-8-4 or articulated loco that costs $500 or more, then those are being released every other year.
To be fair there are a couple of projects, Hornby are doing the 755 (and suspected 756?) as well as 800 and Pendlelino, Dapol announced their 323 to my great excitement, and Realtrack are doing the 156. Many of the class 20, 37s are just leaving service, and 66s have been released nearly every year I've been back in the hobby. I agree however we are particularly short on EMUs (319s for example, networker family including 325). It would be nice to see more modern stuff, as it would help attract youngster who could model what they see. I suspect one of the reasons they don't is that the models at the moment are often single livery, hence they sell less. The other will likely be the lack of nostalgic enthusiast appeal.
I think there’s tons of modern image stuff in both the uk and US. I am a bit biased though, as I’m more interested in steam, and I switched from North American to British because of a lack of steam era stuff available.
I think it depends on how you define stagnation. If you look at the types of steam locos produced in recent years there's some really exciting stuff being done that's never been made before, especially with pre-grouping and industrials taking more of the limelight. But equally I can appreciate how frustrating it must be for modern image modellers too. I do wonder if part of the reason is not only the cost of a model EMU (both the initial tooling costs and the subsequent RRP) but also if there are significant variations between different operators than just the liveries these days. The manufacturers can't get away with slapping on a different paint job anymore but potentially having several intricate tooling options across an entire EMU could be incredibly costly... further pushing up the RRP and potentially impacting sales. So the manufacturers fall back on a pretty little steam loco in a colourful livery that's cheaper to produce and will probably sell just as well. Thanks for watching 😃
I think, personally, modern image hasn't been done commonly because manufacturers don't think there is a big demand for, what they think are, niece class of locos and trains. But that's how I see it.
I have lived long enough now to see the hobby through its up's and down's. It never dies it just becomes less mainstream as times change and the economy shifts. I have just returned to the hobby after many decades away and I am bowled over by the amount of choice not to mention DCC, static grass and 3D printing. Yes I agree probably a tad expensive to buy new, but that is what the second hand market is for and that is where I have been purchasing a lot of the rolling stock. I was at a model railway show last week the first for me in decades and I noted the age demographic was noticeably split. The old guard and young bright eyed youngsters were there aplenty. So, the future is exactly where you say it is. No longer will the clubs be a place of refuge for the model railwayer, social media has taken its place. I have done exactly that myself upon my return. Look at any industry now and you will see closures and talk of hard times but that is how things work. Personally I am very hopeful for the future and will enjoy everything it has to offer.
I think it's also perhaps a bit closer to mainstream right now than it has been in the past. I mean in the last few years there have been a fair few TV programs dedicated to the hobby. The fact that these closures have attracted the national newspapers is perhaps further evidence of that... if this was all happening and no-one cared, mainstream media and hobbyists alike, that's when I think we'd start to see the death of the hobby. But the fact that there's been so much talk, even if a lot of it is negative, it shows that people care enough about the hobby to allow it to continue. And what you say about having so much choice now is equally true. There are so many ways to enjoy the hobby from RTR, scratch building, 3D printing and laser cutting. Even down to whether you build your own layout, follow them on social media or just visit a show occasionally. In some ways we've never had it so good. Thanks for watching 😃
I think your views are spot on. I also wish that manufacturers can make ranges of more simpler and maybe slightly less detailed models that would be more affordable for the younger modellers. From my experience when placing pre orders they are quickly unavailable due to their popularity so that shows that there is still high demand. Thanks to channels like yours this has enabled me to get started in the hobby, keep up the positivity!
The thing is newer entrants like Accurascale and Rapido don't have a huge back catalog of older toolings to pull from, so they would have to spend a lot of money to make a product to sell for cheaper. From their point of view it makes more sense to go for the upper end of the market and undercut the big boys there. Even the Railroad budget range from Hornby is showing that manufacturing costs are still quite high even when the tooling is all paid for. I suspect there's still more profit to be made on a limited higher end model than selling tons of more budget friendly products. That said we've seen that they're investigating moving some production to India to combat costs... whether that will happen or not we don't know but at least they're investigating. Thanks for watching 😃
Hi as a member of the Warley MRC can I just clear something up. The club is saying it’s not the younger generation that it the problem the fact is younger members like myself (I’m 52) don’t have the space time to run the show it takes over 4000 man hours just to organise the show and this is not including the four full days setting up running and strip down the show. We have over 100 full time members and we just don’t have the spare time with work and family commitments. Also traders are dropping out going to shows as they feel the on line sales satisfy the business. Last year we lost quite a few including Rails of Sheffield, Scalemodelscenery and so on. Hope this information helps. Regards Andy
Interesting. They certainly didn't make that clear from their statement, at least in my opinion. Saying "...the next generation of younger enthusiasts...does not seem to be materialising" is very different from stating there's no-one within the club willing to take over the running of such a complex event. I don't think anyone could have argued with the later. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Agreed. The market conditions and “the next generation of younger enthusiasts required to take over the staffing and running of such prestigious events [, which] does not seem to be materialising,” were the main takeaway points from my reading of the statement. If the fact is that younger members of the club can’t, fair enough, yet I’d propose it wasn’t communicated clearly in their statement. Coming from the background of a history major at uni (I’m certainly no Robert Plummer, but I have moderate experience evaluating government decrees, varying primary source documents, ect.) my interpretation of Warley’s announcement would have largely followed yours ThatModelRailwayGuy.
@@stultusmcgee9099 No worries; I understand what you’re asking. I believe the OP’s wording is meant to suggest he’s one of the younger members in his club; naturally, that also suggests that people in their 20s, 30s, and 40s are not a large percentage (if at all) of Warley membership. People like TMRG, Sam’s Trains, and Luke Ryan (all presumably 30s) are the typical young faces of the hobby at large. And we mostly (but not always) favour social media over traditional clubs, so suggesting that 52 is a younger age for Warley makes sense. Many of the veterans I’ve seen or talked with tend to range from 60-90, so there’s a fairly good mixture there too.
I am someone who is in their mid / late 40's, and just getting back into the hobby after many many years away. Your comments and points are spot on about the issues you have covered. I have no desire to join a model railway club but have found inspiration from youtubers such as yourself. I have a baseboard (6'11" x 4'), layout, track, locos and rolling stock sorted (new and second hand), and over the next month or so will have it up and running hopefully. By the summer I plan to landscape and ballast it - this is will be done outside due to lack of space in the house!!!!
@@OscarOSullivan just using a plan from the Peco book that I liked. No specific theme etc, as it will something that can be enjoyed by my daughter. Also hoping to incorporate some of the buildings that have survived the the thirty five years.
I wish I could like this video twice because I couldn’t agree with you more in regard to younger modellers. The reason I returned to the hobby is because of RUclipsrs such as yourself making me realise there are people my age in the hobby! Model railway clubs that complain about the younger generation not taking an interest only have themselves to blame if they are anything like my local club. I tried so hard to join a local model railway club and explained to them I would be more than happy to be a member and join. I am currently up to 4 unread messages as they have now completely blanked me. I am a graphic designer and explained I would free of charge help them improve their advertising, help them make a website and more and after that they stopped communicating with me. It is so disheartening that this is the response of the older generation when the younger generation says they want to help.
Thank you and I'm so glad to hear that the RUclips side of the hobby has helped you find the spark, even if your local club hasn't been so forthcoming. Sadly I suspect your experience isn't uncommon (I've been in similar situations myself) and it's so frustrating when there's a disconnect between those wanting to enrich the hobby and those wanting to play gatekeeper. Thanks for watching 😃
I am not a railway hobbyist but I used to be a pro model maker and pro diorama maker. I truly admire the diorama hobbyists but wince at the high costs and hours needed for their great results. The fragility and difficulty in transportation, the lack of public display venues, no longer having the space as homes become smaller - all these factors hugely challenge the hobbyists. My only suggestion is to mount a go pro style camera upon a carriage, shoot and edit audio and shot angles. Add dubbed sound. Upload the spectacular results to RUclips. Take the entire diorama scene to the next level.
I think it's the offer of graphic design help that's the problem. It's going to come over as marketing or even a scam. Looking like your real interest is to promote your business rather than join the club. Just show interest and ask to join. Attend a show or two (if they have them) as a member of the public. You can improve the club website later.
@@highloughsdrifter1629 That’s quite presumptuous of you to presume my intentions. I had already attended several meeting with the club, I had also been visiting the clubs shows since 2019 and gotten to know some members by the time I suggested helping them improve their marketing and offering to put together a website, it was THEN that I was completely blanked by them and still to this day I have yet to receive any response despite sending multiple follow up messages. I literally just wanted to join a club and have somewhere to go to discuss the hobby. I have a full time job as a graphic designer and am in no need of marketing myself, weird if you to suggest this. This was literally me offering to help a local model railway club improve themselves to help bolster their numbers and appeal to a younger generation. Don’t appreciate this response taking their side, when it is clear they are gatekeeping the hobby and do not wish to allow any younger person in because they dare to say they can help them do things better.
@@CymruRails If my previous message has been misconstrued I appogise. I wasn't presuming your intentions at all, I fact I was assuming only good intent on your part. What I was doing was suggesting that that the club might be presuming those intentions. It's an unfortunate fact that offers of online help / collaboration are rather common (most RUclipsrs get them, for a start) and generally come with a catch of some kind.
I highly doubt it will. People have been saying the hobby is dying out for decades, and yet it's still here. It may not be as big as it was back in the 30s but if anything I think we've seen a small increase in interest in the last few years... just look at all the TV programs that have focus on model railways recently. Thanks for watching 🤩
Never been a more vibrant and alive hobby. Hornby have more to announce later, other model shops exist, other exhibitions happen which are arguably better to attend as they are less crowded and you have more of a chance to actually enjoy whats on show instead of feeling the need to rush around a huge amount of stuff. Everyone needs to chill and enjoy. Same "its the death of😮" stuff that hits preservation now and then when a loco changes hands or one railway hits some tougher financial times than another. Remember all those stories yet new railways are still being opened, even more stuff purchased for preservation, even more stuff changing hands and being restored, whole new buisnesses have formed around restoring stuff instead of volunteers doing it or in conjunction with volunteers doing it. Railway people are very easily led down a path of pessimism to the land of the doomer. Not sure why but it seems an easier sell to us lot than most.
Yes this was exactly my point in the video. In some ways we've never had it so good with all the different companies producing a such a wide variety of products these days. Not to mention the endless creativity and inspiration we can find both online and at shows. But as you've correctly picked up on, we railway modellers love a good moan for some reason and if we all take a bit more of a positive outlook, maybe things aren't anywhere near as bad as they seem. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy in some ways there's even positivity in hattons shutting as their business was largely based on buying up overproduction to take it off the hands of manufacturers that pourly optimised batch sizes and then were willing to get rid of stuff at or near cost to the manufacturer by passing it to hattons and them selling it cheap as chips, the fact hattons business model is failing means manufacturers actually improved their operations so they don't end up with huge overstock of stuff for hattons to swoop in and handle the sale of, this should actually mean that the position of some drama hit manufacturers becomes a bit better going forward as they have got a better handle on things and might not need repeated bailouts and might become viable businesses going forward that aren't in need of constant life support or end up back in the same mess they've found themselves in over and over. The positive aspect is there, much as it sucks for the staff of hattons as you noted.
Of course the hobby is dying ……it’s a shame but do you think that theres enough of the younger generations out there interested in paying out hundreds of pounds to sit and watch a toy train or two go round and round and round ! Just look at the ages of the majority in attendance at any model railway exhibition . Most people into the hobby are Gen X kids that had train sets as kids back in the late 60’s & 70’s ……………….and return to the hobby today as middle aged / old age men.
@@stupididiot6116 so, those people coming back in middle age, they don't have kids? Who won't see their parents play with a layout they are now getting in middle age and then won't just be more fodder for the same familiar cycle of show some interest as a kid, go off and do life in late teens and early 20s, get older have kids and catch the nostalgia bug and go back to the hobby? There's plenty of young people engaging with the hobby, plenty drifting in and out of it as their lives change. It's not dying. As the video states just look at the number of people sharing their modelling around these parts, there's thousands upon thousands of small channels if you go down the rabbit hole of this hobby just on youtube. There's a whole new generation of modellers out there that is not at all small, will some move away and come back later, yup but always was the way. Same thing actually applies to the other interests we blame for stealing modellers away, people play games as kids then get busy with life then come back to it later on, quite a lot of them do, so many that I'd bet that most go years without being involved in playing games to any serious degree then come back to it. The market going crazy with nostalgia driven collecting of older game systems and games in recent years is highly indicitive of this. It's just the nature of the beast. Change is not death, it's change, it's just life. Probably the greatest thing you, I, or anyone could do if we love the hobby is stop saying or questioning if it is dying, you think anyone is going to be stoked to get involved in a hobby that is packed with people who constantly say that hobby is dying? Nothings gonna drive people away faster than advertising ourselves as a moldy old dying hobby past it's glory days full of crap new models that don't live up some anemoia driven view of what the hobby once was. Sadly this is what many do.
When I went to see the Making Tracks layout in Chester cathedral I was pleasantly surprised by the number of families with kids there, and also how the team behind the layout interacted with the youngsters. Definitely encouraging.
Absolutely! I really feel they've hit upon something there. Not only engaging with the general public rather than just modellers but doing so in a friendly way. I suspect the vast majority of people who went don't consider themselves railway modellers but I'm willing to be a few left wanting to know more. Thanks for watching 🤩
I got back into the hobby from seeing RUclips videos of people building dioramas. There seems to be loads of creative people making stuff: cosplay, dioramas, warhammer, model making etc. Really inspirational stuff with loads of cross pollination in terms of techniques and materials. Add to that the fact that laser cutters and 3d printers are accessible now means people can build their own or buy from loads of little businesses popping up making things quite cheaply. All of my interactions with the hobby have come from RUclips and dedicated Facebook groups. I wouldn't be against joining a club but at the moment I get everything I want online I quite enjoy the hobby on my own as a way to wind down from dealing with people at work...
Spot on about the younger modellers if you check out social media the hobby is alive and kicking but people interact in different ways these days and clubs have to find a way to stay current or they will fall by the wayside. Not sure what the answer is but I do feel the future of shows may be more business run than club run.
Yes I was very surprised at Warley making such a point about the lack of younger modellers when they are out there. If anything it potentially shows the clubs own shortcomings to bring in new members than anything else. Warley was very much an exception though. Out of all the major shows it was one of the few that was volunteer/club run. Nowadays it's more common to see these more complex exhibitions run by the magazines or specific event teams. The smaller, more local shows that take place in the local school or church hall though I can see continuing to be lead by clubs as it's a good money maker for them. Thanks for watching 😃
I hope that hattons dont completely dissapear because i own on of their 66s and its great! I think that the hobby will do fine and most people stay home with their models these days. I have recently started building baseboards for my first proper model railway!
As I mentioned the Class 66 tooling has already been sold to Accurascale who have their range coming very soon. I suspect the other Hattons Originals will find similar homes in the future too. Best of luck with your new layout and thanks for watching 😃
I do think their is a strong case to be made about how getting started in the hobby has been less and less of a priority. Super realistic and detailed locos are wonderful to see, but most people starting out usually don't buy £135 models. I think it would do wonders for bringing even more people to the hobby if £30-£40 locos with enough detail to fit that price range were held to as high of a priority as newer and more expensive locomotives. Locos similar to Hornbys E2, Jinty, 14xx & J72, but at a reduced price that refeclts a budget model, but at the same time has enough detail to get people excited to buy more.
You're absolutely right in the sense that we have been spoilt since the early 2000s with this hobby. Look at the Hornby Spam Cans and the rebuilt merchants, still great after all these years. My Grandfather's generation had the brilliant K's kits which they made themselves and something which looked like a pannier tank did. Now we have nearly every locomotive with every rivet and every bracket. I used to voluntarily run on an exhibition layout at Alexandra Palace and the monumental costs to put on these great big shows are enormous, electricity, heating, fuel, storage space and trade stands are a lot of money. Personally I feel that local model shows in our leisure centres and parish halls will make a come back, but that can only be achieved if we're less full throttle on the prototype, but encouraged to get new, both young and older people into the hobby, because some, not all of us do our hobby for the social side. In my slightly larger scale, there's nothing more satisfying than running a loco you know inside and out, striking up conversation with an on looker and then a few months down the line they're asking if they can bring their new loco to your layout. Although a different approach to your video, I think involvement and encouragement on social media, and in person will really save this hobby.
Yes certainly we had it very good in the early 2000s with fantastic detail but still low prices - obviously that isn't the case anymore but many of those models still hold up well alongside modern releases. As for smaller shows making a comeback, I think it's already happening. I'm involved with the exhibition at the heritage railway where I volunteer. We've been running the show in our engine shed for the last 3 years and it's far from a large show but it's seen more attendees every single year - to the point where last year we were worried about over crowding. The smaller shows are out there and they're gaining more traction, especially as social media and online promotion makes it easier to get the word out there. Thanks for watching 😃
Hi That Model Railway Guy, This is the first time I’ve ever commented on a model railway RUclips channel, but watch a number of them! I got back into the model a few years ago, now I have a little more disposable income, but I haven’t bought from a retailer since ModelZone closed. I’ve never been to a show and only watch RUclips channels, as I just don’t have the time. All my family are the same, RUclips is the club of the future! Thanks for all your videos!
Hi Adam, well let me be the first to say welcome! I think you're like a lot of people, time is perhaps more of an issue than money and it's much easier to enjoy seeing other peoples projects come together in real time on social media these days. If I didn't have this channel to keep me going I wouldn't have achieved even half the stuff I've done over the last few years. Thanks for watching 😃
You have done a wonderful job in this video addressing the recent news and covered them to perfection, especially the case of the younger modelers. You are 100% correct about our clubs now being on Instagram. The hobby has taken leaps and bounds in the last 10 years and I know more younger people than older who actually enjoy the hobby! I model in O gauge, as do a fair few others in my neck of the woods and that can only mean that there are even more who model in OO around by me, even if they keep it to themselves. The only negative I see for myself in the hobby is the price gap slowly closing between OO and O gauges which may be forcing some people out of buying the new stuff or alternatively, moving to O gauge! This hobby has seen many ups and downs, now is currently a down for clubs but the online community of railway modellers is stronger than ever. Your views for the hobby in this video could not be anymore alike to my own. great video!
But does it really matter if people model prototypical scenes or not? I've seen incredible layouts the are ultra-realistic which I think are fantastic... and also train set style layouts that keep me entertained for hours. We all enjoy different things and the hobby is about having fun, regardless of how you choose to engage... I think we forget that sometimes. Thanks for watching 😃
Firstly, gosh your layout looks good and I really like your positive thoughts. I have only been in this hobby since COVID and I am discovering new things all the time with so much more modelling to do. I know from all the things I have read and seen that the hobby has gone through many ups and downs. Hornby being bought by the massive Tri-ang and then Tri-ang-Hornby going broke and being resurrected as Hornby and that nearly going broke as well. Not to mention all the other brands that have come and gone. Through all of this the hobby has survived because it is obviously such a good hobby. I agree with you, the Hattons and Warley things are just an unfortunate blip. I am sure something similar will happen here in Australia sooner or later, it's just the way things go. When you are as old as me, you see the patterns being repeated. 👍😊
I was born into this hobby and left it in my late teens. Not because i wanted to but because I simply did not have time and had so many other interests, work and families. But it always remained a found thought to return to the hobby. I always kept in touch with the model trains through my father and brother and people who i met and kept in touch with. Having lived abroad for some years and now returned to the UK i work at a large engineering company and i was astonished to find a few people who had layouts or were interested in model railways or railways in general. None who had joined a club but were simply happy to build and collect locos . Hattons has perhaps circum like you say to the present financial situation in the UK. Maybe it over extend due in part to being marooned by our departure from the EU . The COVID virus impacted manufacturing globally causing shortages and global inflation. Wages high energy bills business taxes have had impacts on many businesses in the retail sector. My assessment is the hobby is still healthy and technically moved along so much since my early days . The second hand market will catch up as more of the new era locos will become more affordable. Old models will be modernized and people will be able to print there own. And we can can still save our money and purchase off the shelf. I have noticed a gap in the market from plastic kit manufacturers like Tamiya , Airfix , Meng and others who could make a move towards the model railway kits . WE ARE AlIVE .
I'm off on a slight tangent here, but, I am now 69 and remember paying regular visits to Hattons (when it was a proper model shop) with my best friend John, on a Saturday to look at the layouts, and dreaming that one day I would create a super layout of my own. I also remember the time I had saved enough money to buy one of the 2nd hand toy cars that they sold. It was a "Matchbox" Vauxhall Victor (F), which had been painted a light grey colour, silver headlights and a dash of red paint for the rear lights. We moved away from Liverpool in 1966, so I must have been 8 or 9 when I started going to Hattons. We could walk to Hattons on Smithdown Road from our street. We also spent many an hour sneaking around Edge Hill Engine Shed, especially of a Saturday afternoon, hiding from the "Men" between the lines of engines, hoping not to be caught and subsequently escorted out through the long tunnel the railway men would use to access the sheds.
Spot on! Clubs are invariably run by the "old guard" and will they will not accept new ideas. I'm sorry to say the old adage "We've always done it that way!" is as true today as it's always been. Long live the independent modeler - shows will be run on a modular basis in the future as well.
I have had trains since the mid 1960's in the US. I started out with O-27 Marx and Lionel, then received an HO set so that it could be expanded more economically. Family members all knew what scale I modelled. Birthdays and Christmas always brought something interesting from family members in Germany and closer to home. As a teen I was hired by the owner of a local hobby store, went to the distribution warehouses and shows with the stores and customers wish lists. It was a great hobby. I lost most of what I had thanks to a vindictive soon to be ex while going through a divorce. After remarrying and purchasing another home I had plans of building another layout. A sister in law and her child needed a place to live. The train room was remodeled. Things were put on hold - A severe work injury further complicated finances for a layout and equipment acquisition. In the last 20 years the costs have become ridiculous. I peruse shops from time to time. I truly miss the kit availability. I loved the assembly process. With electronics the grandkids seem to have other interests. Many whom I knew in the hobby have found other interests due to cost and availability issues. I fear that the manufacturers have raised the bar too high for many. Just my opinion.
At the Hoddesdon Model and Railway Club we have around six junior members. All of them are interested in trains, cars and planes, and we have a stand for junior members to display their talents and skills on major exhibition days.
That's great! I've seen a few other clubs that have a junior section as well who often have their own layout that they take to exhibitions to operate themselves alongside the club's main layout. It's about encouraging those skills an enthusiasm rather than saying, "you're too you I'll do it for you." Often they're some of the best layouts to watch at shows because the kids make sure there's plenty of action on the layout constantly. Thanks for watching 😃
There was a nice article on BBC News in the morning, that was asking the same question. It is a shame they did not deep dive into the benefits of this hobby, just the expense!
And that's sort of what I was addressing here. When the mainstream media do pick up on things within our hobby they don't always have the time resources to do a full in depth search of the overall situation. It's a summary of events at best with a dash of opinion flavoured to match a catchy headline. It's understandable but not something we should loose our heads over. Thanks for watching 😃
I just want to point out British modelers are in a lot better sted than US modelers as price continue to skyrocket due to the expectance of DCC and sound, the older generations gatekeep and actively try to uninvolve the younger generations, and as our general economic conditions worsen. I've been banned from several online model train communites for pointing out the prices of model trains are quickly becoming unobtainable and things like Build to Order aren't helping. Luckly that mindset hasn't invaded the UK and people like you and Sam's Trains are keeping the manufacture's honest.
I think we might already be in that situation in the UK too though. Look at the amount of comments here of people complaining about prices or those saying they tried to join a club but gave up. That's not to be all doom and gloom though. There are still plenty of ways to enjoy the hobby. Thanks for watching 👍
I miss Beatties 😢 great shops! Great video and many share this outlook. it's only doom mongers that jump on the bandwagon, I also didn't appreciate some of the views on rmweb that people should stop complaining about the price of the hobby. It's ridiculous. Point rodding. Bits of mass produced plastic costing over £10...Hornby station £30+... Simple 4 wheel wagons £30+...railroad locos £80+...why? when they can't cost anywhere near that to make! The hobby will be fine but it's crying out for a manufacturer to retake the entry level market with sensible pricing or a change in approach. Why for example can't we buy new bodies for locos, sell the chassis and body separately, all the add-ons and details separately. I'm not a member of a club either. I understand why people would do, it's a bit like when folks used to just go sit in a local pub to meet and chat to others... that's rare now, most are called Tesco. Personally I started in the hobby once I had a kid that was interested, then stumbled on your videos and mouldy raspberry and thought I could have a go.i didn't appreciate how expensive it was tbh. Have to support your view, it being all online is brilliant, we get to work on our own layouts, and see others work all without disturbing home life. However, one thing that you didn't raise that is worth a mention and debate is the stigma and view of others towards railway modelling as a subject matter, I've certainly experienced it with even friends and family. Why and where does this stem from? Btw, Warley are simply saying that THEIR club is aging and they can't attract new modellers to run the event, which is fair enough, I'd not want to run something that big...would you!? 😂
I think this video is spot on. The big issue is that just like the way a country talks it's way in to a recession (because people stop spending money), if people keep talking about the hobby dying it will because of people putting into peoples minds.
Absolutely. My thinking is, even if every model railway company closed down tomorrow (which is unlikely!) we'd still have our existing layouts to enjoy and plenty of resources to build in pretty much any scale we like. Thanks for watching 😃
You point out that news stories often focus on the bad news. You built your small narrow gauge layout and I've got a small shelf layout above my desk where I can run a few Welsh narrow gauge trains. Who would have thought even 5 years ago that a major manufacturer would supply a whole range of 009 models so that anyone can build a convincing narrow gauge layout ( or that their efforts would be supplemented by companies like Peco/Kato with their own ready to run models). I feel that Bachmann's efforts have gone a little under the radar with all the noise about Hornby's investment in TT120 but I do feel it shows confidence in the hobby and is something to be celebrated even if 009 is not for you.
Excellent video. Graham Foulston said something similar. Your points come across really well and it's great to hear. I am glad I've channels like yours as it's a great way to learn and interact. Tim
I have been involved in model railways since I was six and I am now 68. I have bought from Hatton's and have no complaints but they are just one player and other outlets will pick up some of the custom. My biggest worry for the hobby is the prices and unnecessary duplication when there are products which could be improved or models which have not yet been modelled e.g. Standard 3mt tender and GN J6. If I am paying over £200 for a OO locomotive model then I expect it to work well, look right and bits dropping off before it runs is not acceptable. I will be honest I usually buy second hand but the prices have now crept up but I am not slow in making an offer and usually get a positive response. My favourite exhibition was the Southwold show but that closed a few years ago due the age of the members but I saw some cracking exhibition layouts in its time. I am still modelling.
The positive way to look at duplication is that we see the potential for high prices to come down while the manufacturers push to make a better model than their competitor. We saw this with the Manor Class recently which were both rather keenly priced. Likewise I buy a fair amount of models, probably more than most, and honestly I think QC has improved drastically over the last few years. But if I ever do have a problem with a loco, 99.9% the retailer/manufacturer will sort it out. I've only had one instance where that didn't happen and I opted to fix the loco myself rather than get a refund. Thanks for watching 👍
There is a model Railroad show in Massachusetts, run by the Amherst Model Railway Club every year, it's the biggest show atleast in North America. It occupies 350,000 Square feet of floor space in 4 buildings of the Eastern States Exposition Grounds in Springfield, MA. It's only growing. I work in a Hobby shop, model railroad products are one of our two biggest departments, and kids are a major part of our business. If anything will kill the Hobby, it's manufacturers over pricing their models. I don't know about your clubs, my boss keeps inviting me to join his club. It's an hour from me, and $180.00 a year. I could buy something for my Railroad or spend $180.00 a year to run on their Railroad provisionally until I get full membership.
There's a chance big companies might start crashing down due to how expensive and high the barrier for entry is for MODELS not toys, and even as a long time hobbies buying a loco can be tough stuff. But so many top quality smaller companies have come to the spotlight recently, I'll be sure to be buying from them in future
Maybe...maybe not. Honestly I think the level that Accurascale and Rapido are at is about the right size for high quality companies focused purely on the high end of the hobby. Hornby and Bachmann are exceptions because, in Bachmann's case it's owned by a parent company and in Hornby's case they are the parent company. Their business is in more than just creating trains for modellers. Thanks for watching 😃
The times are changing, simple as that. Like another commenter I'm a late 40-sonething just coming into the hobby. Life pressures mean its doubtful i could dedicate any meaningful time to a club even if I wanted to - I have no time for the rivet counter brigade that a few clubs I've encountered in the past seem to consist entirely of. If i can get all the inspiration/ learning / supplies I need online, then why not? (After all, how I found this channel was by punching 'how to build a model railway' into RUclips's search box) Where i think the biggest issue is, particularly in the current environment, is cost. I cant imagine the average casual or beginner modeller wants to start off with finely detailed rolling stock costing hundreds of pounds. The fact that you can buy a chassis on ebay, whack a 3D printed body on it and spend less than Hornby, charge for some coach / wagon sets should be the big cause for concern for retailers struggling to get feet through the door.
Part of the problem is the price point that has been created by the demands for super-detailed RTR items. If we go back 20 or so years the models were much more basic and there were articles in the likes of Railway Modeller magazine on how to detail them. Perhaps the manufacturers need to consider a few items in the range that go back to that principle. By all means, have them DCC ready, have the higher quality motors, i'm not suggesting we need to go back to the days of the X04 brush motor, but there needs to be an entry level component that is attainable to keep the hobby alive.
It's a catch 22 situation really since modellers want more detail which pushes the price up, but the price being high anyway warrants more detail to make it more justified for the customer. I can't see manufacturers tooling up more simple models though as it would still be a huge outlay to make something that you would essentially be selling for less. The manufacturers are there to make money at the end of the day and if there's more profit on a highly detailed model, that's where they'll focus their efforts. The only manufacturer really capable of this is Hornby who have a large back catalog of older toolings to pull from for their Railroad range. Even there we're seeing it's not a cheap exercise to re-run older models and the prices are still higher than what most would want. Perhaps their new replacement to the Playtrains range will fill this gap, but even so I think it'll then mostly appeal to kids rather than modellers on a budget. Thanks for watching 👍
Just let me say Hattons are closing because the owner wanted to take their equity out of the business! If they had the stomach for putting their business model right! Warley has suffered from the NEC effect! Expensive to get in, expensive to park and an older organising committee. Move to a different venue and things would be better! GETS was very popular! Why? No parking fees and cost of entry is fair.
Do we have any hard evidence for that? Even if it is true, should they continue on with the business if they don't have any passion for it anymore. Surely that would be worse. Warley is a strange beast because it's such a huge show in a huge venue but volunteer run. Most shows of a similar size would have an events team working year round on that alone. And GETS isn't immune either, after the most recent show people were complaining about the parking, the shuttle bus, the overcrowding. We railway modellers love a good moan don't we. Thanks for watching 👍
3d printing has opened up a whole new world of future projects. Just look at what Sam has achieved at Sam's trains with his experiments in 3d printing locomotives and rolling-stock!
I definitely agree but don't forget there is a huge amount of skill in designing for it. Sam is a good example of what can be achieved - take a look at his very first models compared to what he's producing now and they're worlds apart because he invested a lot of time into building those skills. Thanks for watching 😃
Problem is Sam has no idea what he's doing, I was sent one to print for someone, I had to refuse as my CAD/Mesh checker said it wasn't printable. So I declined. Best not to watch Sam in my opinion as he is very misleading.
It was his efforts that made me get a 3D printer. Had it 4days. My third print was a fleet of locos and wagons bodies in T scale. Took 42minutes and $0.44 of resin. Today I am designing gears and gearboxes in TT scale.
I may not have been in the hobby since I was a kid but getting back into it on N scale instead of HO in the US there hasn't been a slowdown of train sales I've seen. I can say for N scale there's a whole lot more folks coming to the scale due to the size where you can have more trains and track along with the price being more affordable for how much you get. Every scale has a fan and I'm happy to see the hobby becoming so big I see a good amount of new videos on TikTok actually. The technology has also been a big factor in making trains amazing, seeing something like the Broadway Limited Big Boy making smoke with lights and sounds in a tiny package is something amazing even to those not in the hobby. I don't think the hobby is anywhere near dying, it's transforming into a new era.
I work for a major online US model retailer and while we've been seeing a slow decline in customers, we've been shifting gears to get new eyes on the hobby. We've taken a great push onto social media and post short videos of new models running on layouts. The hobby isn't dying, we just need to keep moving with the times!
I think this is a great point, rather than just staying static the hobby does need to adapt and grow to reach new people - and as you've said we are starting to see that. At the same time I can't count the number of times I've seen older enthusiasts complain because a manufacturer posted an update to Facebook, despite the fact they can still see it. There does seem to be scepticism to anything new. Thanks for watching 🤩
100% agree regarding the younger generation of hobbyists and clubs. Model Railway clubs feel very old school still with AGMs, commitee members, finances and the like. Something I noticed with other hobby clubs like Warhammer is there's none of this, just pay on the day/monthly and turn up on the night to play, alot less admin. Fees pay for hall hire and any extra on scenery for games. Social media allows for this community aspect in a much more flexible format.
You're right. I hadn't considered that aspect. They are far too tied to an old fashioned corporate stucture. My son introduced me to DnD nights at the local games store. Just turn up and play. The only rules you follow are the ones in the game. My son is now looking to get into model railways, and although he enjoys going to exhibitions has wouldn't dream of joining such an old fashioned organisation with such rigid structures. I also know of a couple of model railway clubs where you need to be introduced by an existing member to even attend!
You are right TMRG, especially on the younger modellers. Not many grey hairs on you yet! The hobby is in a great shape and your mentions of Planet Industrials is an exemplar of the positive change taking place. A strong summary 👍👏and let’s remember there is nothing so certain as change.
Really good points here! The Warley announcement did feel to me like a bit a bit of a cop-out to avoid admitting that traditional clubs are not as common among us younger adults (though admittedly not unheard of); social media videos, groups, and pictures are rapidly growing and showcase that talent is still very much a feature of this hobby. Things change (for both good or ill), but this hobby has always proved adaptive. Truthfully I’d wager the collective anxiety is because we’re going through an inflection point. How things will look on the other side, who knows. I’ll still enjoy modelling.
Yeah I felt it was really odd of them to single out the next generation as not stepping up to the mark rather than just saying there's no-one who wants to take over the running of such a complex show. Thanks for watching 😃
There is a distinction to be made between "younger" and "young". To a group of people of retirement age or close to, younger could mean people in their 30s or 40s. And if that is the case, then I agree that there are lots of excellent modellers showcasing their skills. But I do believe that there are fewer young people starting out. It used to be aspirational to want a train set, and a percentage of those people then got ever more seriously in to railway modelling. That aspirational element now has shifted to wanting the latest games console, and those youngsters that do start out are often doing so because of family connections. But over the years, so those family connections reduce and so does the number of people coming in to the hobby. So I think some of the fears are real, I just don't think they are as close as the latest round of scaremongering would have us believe. A key focus for manufacturers needs to be engaging the young again...maybe through pricing strategies, maybe by tie-ins with console games, linking with younger Social Media or TV personalities. No offence to Jules Holland, Eddie Izzard or Pete Waterman but they aren't likely to inspire many school kids.
Very true! I will say though that it's been interesting to see what Pete Waterman and the Railnuts have done by letting people take charge of the Making Tracks layouts - I can imagine lots of kids wanting a layout of their own after being let loose on a layout like that. Similarly when I exhibited my own layout last year I was staggered by the amount of families at the show with the kids proudly telling me they'd started or wanted to start their own layout. I hear what you're saying but I don't think all is lost in that regard just yet - there is still hope. Thanks for watching 😃
You're right that exhibitions can make a difference. I went to Doncaster last year and was amazed that only one or two layouts seemed to be trying to entertain kids...hidden Easter Eggs, driving a train or even just choosing a train to run from a fiddle yard. I appreciate they are expensive labours of love, so they don't want kids playing with them, but there are ways to entertain and interact.
I think part of the decline (not end) is self inflicted how do you get people into a hobby in the middle of a cost of living crisis, competing with video games, with train sets that cost what they do nowadays, which cost a few pounds per set to preduce as all the moulds are cast. They could make it £100 for the Hornby Flying Scotsman pack, £50 - £75 for the 0-4-0 train pack and still make a lot of profit. Yet they won't greed has overtaken them and som of the other manufacturers.
While it's true that model railways simply aren't as popular with most people as they were back in the 30s, I'm not sure bringing the prices down is the overall solution. It may help but an Xbox or Playstation isn't exactly cheap and yet people are still buying those. At the end of the day the manufacturers still have to make money too and I think the idea that the sets cost very little to produce is a gross underestimation. I don't think it's greed that set the prices but a need to stay afloat, otherwise we'd see a lot more manufacturers cease to exist. That said, we've seen Hornby investigating production in India for it's budget range. We don't know whether that will actually happen or not but at least they're looking. Thanks for watching 😃
The whole video games thing is tired and indeed self inflicted, and seems mainly bemoaned by us, the generation of parents that are failing to limit our kids screen times and encourage them to engage in more constructive things or constructive uses of that screen time. If the kids are all into video games that's not the video game industries fault or a fault with the kids, it's kinda a fault in our parenting and handing our kids over to that interest... we after all play a huge role in shaping the people our kids become and the interests they get into.
I recently joined my local model railway club and I think if it was like other model railway clubs I wouldn't have even considered it. The club I joined always has atleast one layout in construction for younger modellers to have a go at (They are currently building two, a OO Gauge 60s BR layout and an EM Gauge model of the Jarrow T&W Metro station) and have 2 layouts for members to run their models on (1 DC and 1 DCC). They do have a membership fee but its not that much anyways and its half price for under 16s
That sounds like a really good way of doing it and it allows junior members to get involved with the hobby without having the huge outlay of building their own layout and buying all their own models. Thanks for watching 😃
I think you are spot on about clubs. The younger generation really have no need of clubs. Social media is taking over. The one thing that social media cannot do, however, is put on exhibitions to spark people's interest. Clubs need to have an online presence and join together for exhibitions.
There are of course the virtual exhibitions that have taken place in recent years - though I agree there is no substitute for seeing layouts in person and getting to interact with people. For me that's where the clubs should focus their efforts. Thanks for watching 😃
I am an older enthusiast, more interested in toy end. So DCC and ultra detailed models are not my thing. So I tend to collect the toys of my youth. Basically from fifty years ago. So the price point for me is more influenced by others with similar tastes chasing the stuff on eBay. However I do think Hornby should have segmented their market with a return to the railroad range, maybe branded Triang. As for retailers. There have been loads that were family ran that decided to exit when retirement beckoned. Anyway I think there is such a range in tastes, that the hobby will further evolve into more niches.
I do agree that Hornby need to figure out their budget range. The whole Railroad and Railroad Plus thing is a bit of a mess, along with other older models still being sold in the main range but at modern day prices. Thanks for watching 😃
That's what I'm here for. Remember, it's just toy trains. It's a hobby and it's meant to be fun so there's no point getting all wound up about it. Thanks for watching 😃
I think you are right on both accounts, One of the reasons I haven't joined a club is I work most nights (local club meets on Wednesdays only) also what they model is of little interest (time period) to me, also there is the time limit if you are working! There are plenty of younger modelers out there most on RUclips 😃, retailers come and go Hattons is just one of them, but I do hope someone takes on and produce some off their products. Warley was not a cheap day out, with ticket, parking, cost of food in the hall means that £60 is spent before you purchase a loco, wagon. As for larger shows I now attend the Stafford Show (club run) a far cheaper show and sorry to say far better than the Warley Show.
You’re so right the hobby is as strong as ever I’m 62 and returning to the hobby after 45 ( I guess cars and girls were a bit more interesting lol).but now I’m back and I’m using you tube to document what I’m doing plus I also like making videos so I can combine my two hobbies together l don’t think it’s the end of the hobby it’s just RUclipsrs using the scare tactic to get views.. Graham from Grandads little railway
Well said, they hobby's not dying but does need to change tact. Also if another manufacturer does take on Hattons' toolings I do hope to see the Genesis coaches in Southern olive green again as I missed out on the Hattons run.
In some ways I think that's more of a possibility if the toolings do go somewhere else. Hattons were pretty clear that they weren't going to make a habit of doing re-runs but another company might want a more secure option of re-doing a livery that sold out than doing something new and untested. Thanks for watching 😃
Excellent; just the positive message we need. I've heard doomsayers predicting the death of the hobby for as long as I can remember, certainly since I got started with model railways in childhood in the 1980s. This seems a particular quirk of railway modelling - I can't think of any other hobbies whose participants have continually bemoaned its demise for decades. Frankly it's a little bizarre when you think about it. Like you, I had been away from the hobby for a while until recently, and like you it was excitement at seeing what (mostly) younger content creators were doing that drew me back in. I really have to agree that there are plenty of younger people interested, but it's no surprise that many older model railway club members aren't aware of them as the thriving communities aren't meeting in their local church hall. I also think it's grossly unfair to label younger generations as lazy or apathetic simply because older people don't see them volunteering in the same way as them - I see a lot of younger people selflessly giving up their time to help others in all sorts of ways, and they have far greater reach to be able to make a difference to the lives of others in less fortunate situations. Of course I'm talking in wider terms than just model railways. PS nice to see Pi's Victory out on the layout again - I do love those models.
'End of the hobby' is an over the top reaction. Ultimately people are demanding more and more of model makers - in terms of motors, details sound etc - but then baulk at the price. Manufacturers aren't getting rich with these prices, hornby haven't made money since Moses were a lad
Exactly, that was the whole point of this video. Even if every manufacturer packed up for good tomorrow, the hobby would still continue on in my opinion. I mean there are people still modelling in TT3 despite it not being commercially available for decades... the likes of 00 gauge would take a lot longer to disappear completely. Thanks for watching 😃
The statement: "The hobby is dying" is a view that has been around as long as the hobby has been mainstream - I have read back-issues of magazines that were published before I was born (1986) and even back then there were concerns. I think we should keep up with innovations in the hobby and I think we need models aimed at beginners (such as the Railroad range of Hornby or Hobby range if Piko). Perhaps we could have average models in general and the manufacturers could offer super-detailing kits to upgrade the rolling stock/locos to museum quality. Sometimes I think they can't win, people want more detail but don't want to pay the price for that. I think that 3D printing and things like DCC-EX add a great aspect to the hobby and this is something that manufacturers must take into account. Games Workshop (who do the Warhammer models) recently rereleased their fantasy brand under a new name this year and they are still using ancient figures. People are saying they will rather use 3D printed proxy models from 3rd parties. To go to your Warley comment, we had a huge thing we called "The Model Railway Convention" every two years here in South Africa where we had a large exhibition and hobby craft workshops (like making trees) in a different provinces, we also visited the local (for the province) layouts. Since even before the pandemic, the convention fizzled out and there were less attendees. I think that current world events are also making things more challenging. I agree with you in the whole - lets keep chugging on and the best way to get new people involved is to get your kids/family interested and understand that they may not enjoy or like what you do, give them the freedom to do as they wish.
As you say, another phenomenon that never previously existed is RUclips railway modelling. Surely this is a positive development? It helped me back into the hobby.
Yes and not just RUclips but Instagram and Facebook both have very healthy communities too of people sharing and communicating with each other. Thanks for watching 😃
Hornby did some important development in electronic equipment for model railroading, e.g. the bluetooth range of decoders and central or control units. Even if they might have taken advantage from the experience of an OEM developer it always limits the development of new models a bit. In Germany so far even no standard setting manufacturer like Lenz, ESU or Uhlenbrock came over with the idea to communicate with trains "simply" over Bluetooth or another wireless standard like e.g. Zigbee, neither did Digitrax. But the real railway prototypes it, just communicating by GSM-R instead of Bluetooth, Zigbee or WiFi if higher levels of ETCS are implemented.
Yes and not forgetting that when DCC was still relatively new Hornby introduced their Select/Elite systems which got a lot of people intro digital control. A lot of people like to bash Hornby but I don't think they get nearly enough credit for all the innovations that they've brought to the table over the years. Thanks for watching 😃
Spot on commentary …. …. 👍 A blip, a retailer , not a manufacturer … 1 show cancelled, 1 new one ,, More choice than I can ever remember … I don’t see a crisis, I see a flourishing hobby …
Definitely, if we'd know we would have all these manufacturers recreating obscure prototypes and pre-grouping models 10-15 years ago we'd have all been jumping for joy! Besides, nothing that has happened stops us from playing trains day to day. Thanks for watching 😃
I have to agree, the hobby is in an overall good place. I will miss Hattons though. I live in the USA and have a massive collection of British locos and stock, most of which were purchased either new or used from Hattons. Their international service was unparalleled.
Yes I suspect it's international customers like yourself who will suffer most from this in reality. We'll have to see if another retailer steps up but if no-one does I suspect it may give us an idea of where things went wrong for Hattons. Thanks for watching 😃
I couldn't agree more with what you say. Just look at your subscriber level! And there are others out there with much larger subscriber levels. RM Web is another example. Hornby are in a period of consolidation. Some of their recent models took 4 or 5 years to come to market and came in for criticism for not being up to date. So they need to step back a bit and get their production schedules back on track (pun not intended!). It's a shame to see Hattons go but that's the way of things. The retail business can be cutthroat. We lost a lot of retailers over the years but others have come along and hopefully they will continue. I'm of an age to remember Kings Cross Models that went in the late '80s. I will miss Hattons, though, for their orignal ideas, such as the locker. Warley will be missed as well, but I can undertand the reasons why. Many of the organisers are now into their '70s and '80s and need to step back from it. The club itself is doing well but we are all limited for time these days and i can see why there was a lack of volunteers to carry on the exhibition. A lot of local clubs have also stopped their exhibitions, mainly due to the increasing cost of putting them on.
Exactly, Hornby take criticism for being so behind on their new models, so they take a quiet year to catch up and get criticised for not announcing enough. Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't in my opinion. Warley really was insane when you think about the size of that show and the fact that it was all being done by part time volunteers. Most events of that size at the NEC would have an events team working year round on it. I can definitely see why no-one wants to take over. We railway modellers aren't exactly the forgiving type and even if the tiniest thing went wrong or was changed people would have a field day. Just look at the furore that happened at GETS last year because one shuttle bus broke down 😅 Thanks for watching 👍
Hornby released their trading statement last week with their web sales up 30 percent and they were very pleased with their Black Friday sale. So considering Hattons business model for sixty years was taking Hornby stock at trade prices or surplus stock at a large discount, that business model is officially dead. Hornby, Bachmann, Rapido, Accurascale etc. can now do everything Hattons did so why offer Hattons models at trade prices, with quantity discounts and stock on payment terms just so Hattons can undercut them? Daft. There will be plenty of models to buy online, just the future is buy direct from the brand website.
Yes positive news for Hornby there and even with a limited announcement this year, they have lots of new products still to arrive over the next few months which, fingers crossed, should keep that positive trend going. I think the way Accurascale is doing things is really the biggest threat to retailers. It's the same price on their website as anywhere else so that's the biggest incentive gone already. Plus you get a discount for ordering multiples (great for rolling stock) and you can earn reward points to spend on future models with them. Couple that with their great customer support and they seem to be onto a real winner there. Thanks for watching 😃
Right at so many levels, I would agree railway modelling is actually growing, just not in the traditional sense. On line media, affordable 3D printing, laser cutting, Templot 3D trackwork, along with numerous software and hardware developments, not to mention, as you pointed out, the increasing number of new manufacturers. When modellers, clubs, and media talk about the “end of hobby” they are referencing their experiences, and their values, not actual current trends; where it is now very much an adult undertaking, but one that looks to social media and to a lessor extent on line forums for motivation and engagement, watching, listening and learning from others prior to committing to expenditure. Hatton’s closure is, for us overseas modellers, is a real blow, they had excellent customer service, huge range and a fantastic international postage system to Australia. I agree with your reasoning on Hatton’s and Hornby, but both have their reasons for the decisions made. No one can understate the huge investment Hornby has delivered in recent years, HM7000 technology and Turbomotive tooling being game changers I for one am excited for the future of railway modelling.
Agreed, in some ways we've never had it so good with all the options we now have in the hobby. I definitely think that the closure of Hattons will affect international modellers like yourself more, but I do wonder if that's partly what got them into a tricky situation in the first place. And yes, Hornby really don't get the credit they deserve in my opinion. If say Accurascale had made those products everyone would be jumping for joy! Thanks for watching 😃
thank you, I have been in a deep spiral of depression there were many things going wrong and ending in my life and when I got the message of Hatton's it pushed me over the edge making me think the hobby maybe done for, but you have given me inspiration and hope so again thankyou.
Glad I was able to help, even if only in a small way. We have to remember at the end of the day that, this is a hobby. We basically playing with toy trains and it's meant to be fun. I think we forget that sometimes so it's worth reminding yourself of that every once in a while. Thanks for watching 😃
So here's my views: (get ready) First off, news articles can go do one under a bridge as far as I'm concerned. They often wind a story up to the max, where no one involved took it to in the first place. Second: I think this has absolutely nothing to do with the range of trains, competing quality, Hornby giving up Thomas, ect. I think this is culture, pure and simple. Get this right, everything else will follow. Third: If the hobby dies, so be it. Like, seriously, look how good it's been! Especially in the past 10 years! We're not going to run out of trains in our collection, and we will figure out new ways to make stuff. Sure it would be sad if one day, there were no companies left making railway stuff, but let's be honest, what could we do now to help, that couldn't be done 15 years ago when it really mattered? It's no good sewing the seeds when the rain has just passed. The time for the hobby to change has passed. Something else needs to happen. Forth: Many years ago (16-ish years) I was part of a model railway club, and one of the problems even I saw back then, was that they weren't growing with the world. I was into filming and RUclips back then too, and was saying how good it would be for us and others, young and old, if we could share our club online with what we do here. In the few years I was there, not once did they ever want me to do this, and then I realized they don't even advertise the club, whilst complaining that no one is joining. In the few years I was there, 3, maybe 4 people joined. WTF?! How does anyone expect to keep something alive if the heritage of the hobby aren't even trying themselves? What kind of message does that send? I left soon after. In summary: You called this a blip on the hobby. I think you are wrong. To me, this is more like (or needs to be more like) a handing over of the torch. The hobby need to be handed over to the next generation to keep things going, in the new world that's coming our way. From my experience, the younger gens seam more willing to change with the times. The older gens are not. Now, to be monumentally fair to the older gens, there are still a lot of memories around from their time, where they were just happy that they, or their parents, didn't get blown up. Whereas us younger lot, have to deal with the price of some of these model trains. So let's just bare that in mind. The hobby will change. It will be a learning curve. It will be uncertain. But it can be done. Like you say, I also don't claim to have the answers, but I'm more than willing to sit down with others to help figure this out. The local model club is no longer that big shed just outside town. It's in your room, your loft, your mates house. You just need an internet connection. The way I see it, there is only one model railway club now, we just need to figure out a name for it. I'm thinking something like..... One World Model Railway Club. ;-) Anyway, just my thoughts on this. :-)
I definitely agree with your 3rd point. Look at the amount of people still modelling in TT3 despite the fact it's not been commercially available for decades... 00 gauge would take a lot longer to die out. Thanks for watching 😃
Spot on analysis here. Well done for not jumping on the bandwagon. Totally agree that we’ve never had it so good. Laser cuts, 3d printing, RUclips, forums. So much now possible that wasn’t before.
Hi there, I'm from France - I would like to share your optimism but unfortunately, if I indeed don't think the hobby is dead, it's without any doubt in critical condition. I am a train and model kit hobbyist, and while I lived in Paris, from the more than 30 shops I knew thirty years ago I only know less than half a dozen in actual times. In Rouen where I live since ten years, I saw a reduction from three shops to... Zero. People and shops moved on to the net? Well, The enormous annual Salon de la Maquette in Paris that began 40 years ago, definitely closed its doors a dozen years ago. TrainsMania that was a big model railway convention that was held in Lille for several years, is no more since last year. I went a few weeks ago to a modest but awesome model railway convention I knew for at least a decade, held in the suburbs of Paris, and it was only the shadow of what it was a couple years ago. Trains and model kits that still thrived on supermarket shelves at the beginnings of Year 2000, are now reduced to a ridiculously small corner, when they are not just completely absent, while other toys sections are still florishing.
Being British I obviously can't speak for the situation in France - or any other country for that matter, but here in the UK the hobby is just fine in my opinion. Yes shops/retailers close and exhibitions may not continue but I fail to see how this stops us as individuals engaging in the hobby we love. Why does that stop us building a layout and running trains? Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy You are certainly right, the loss of so many shops and exhibitions did not affect my own engagement, but it certainly depresses me. Besides, a good part of what makes this hobby attractive to me is the direct interaction with other modelists, I certainly don't have to tell you how wandering in a shop or a convention and talking with others is essential in such activities. We are gradually losing that, and I believe this is an important factor, along with the economics, of its decline. Please continue to be awesome and entertain this small world.
I certainly agree that the closure of a store ( however important) and a major exhibition ceasing does not mean the death of the hobby. There are issues to consider however. You point out that younger modellers perhaps don't join clubs but use social media much more. I suppose an interesting and potentially important point is how they get there. If someone is randomly YT surfing, sees a model railway video and thinks "I've never thought of that, it looks fun" then that is good. If however, the person is inspired to look for a YT video because they had a Hornby trainset for Xmas one year, played with it for a few years and then grew out of it but are now interested to see how the hobby has developed, then that might mean that the future of the hobby is dependant on what 5 to 10 year olds are asking for Xmas in 2024. In my view the future of the hobby is more dependent on the attitude of 20 to 30 year old parents and relatively young children than it is on those currently investing in the hobby. If todays parents never had a train set and if a child never sees a trainset in a local toy shop or see adverts for trainsets on TV in the run up to Xmas can we realistically expect them to search YT in 10 or 15 years time for modelling inspiration? I strongly believe that lifestyle patterns are set in childhood and that it is only in 10 or 20 years time that we will know whether the hobby is dying, surviving or thriving. Another point about current modellers -- do we know whether an interest in model railways spreads across all demographics? I would suggest that hobbies that are primarily dependent on white, middle class, males will struggle for long term survival. I have no idea if that is the case with our hobby but if that is how clubs are perceived or how the hobby in general is perceived then we ought to think that that is a potential barrier to the long term survival of the hobby
That's a great video. You hit the nail on the head. The hobby is changing. The clubs are getting older and the younger generation are going in a different direction. It's a strong hobby and will remain so. Well done.
Definitely! I'd suggest it's not just the younger generation either - this channel gets plenty of views from those in all age groups which suggests a strong expansion into the digital world with all modellers. Thanks for watching 😃
The hobby will survive and grow, if the current hobbyists want it to. If you are expecting everyone else to do the heavy lifting it may die but don't moan if it does! If you want the model railway to be the vibrant community you imagine, what are you doing to make it so? Real world example in rugby. My local club had a vibrant junior section, run by volunteers who were happy to muck in, sort out match dinners, run the shop, do protective governance, run finances and more importantly give up their time, weekdays and weekends to coach. I got qualified as a coach, cooked matchday food, run stalls, done maintenance, made signs, done corporate fundraising etc. because it was my club and I wanted it to be successful. Now is that the old guard have moved on (Warley), their children have gone to university or senior rugby. We now have too many adults seeing the club on a Sunday as a pound per hour creche. We can support parents to coach and run teams and that was how I got involved post playing. It was how my dad got involved, he never played. But post Covid that seems to have changed. My lads are now at university, so why am I providing that service to others? Am I part of the problem even though they are not my children? Or do people today just want no work solutions? If you don't want your passion to die, what are you doing about it? If you leave it to others, don't moan about the outcome. And yes, anyone can make a difference.
As a young modeller myself, I totally agree with all the points you made about them. Brilliant and very informative video, certainly gave me a new perspective on a fair few things. 👍
Glad to hear it. I would never want to speak on behalf of all younger modellers but I do feel like there are more around than ever. With social media too, it's a lot easier to find other likeminded people of the same age where a decade or two ago the other modellers you know would most likely consist of whoever was at your local club. Thanks for watching 😃
To be fair newspapers want shock and awe - "It's the end of the world" sells better than "Something is evolving" A quiet year for announcements would be nice. We all need to catch up - We have items on back-order items stretching back 7 years...
I am sorry to say that I have never bought anythink from Hatton in the last sixty years of a model railways hobby, I allways try to get any items from a shop or ebay. I was also a member of the Warley model club for the last 20 years, but now I am 76 the time has come to give up helping at the exhibition, the problem is that every person in the club has the same problem.
And that's fine, it's your hobby after all. Some people much prefer seeing items in person or simply just the experience of going into a shop. You shouldn't have how you enjoy your hobby dictated by other people. Similarly with not wanting help at the exhibition anymore, it's completely understandable. Again, it's a hobby, we're allowed to bow out gracefully if that's what we want. Thanks for watching 😃
One of the bad thing about the hobby is how much the price goes up, not only because new and more precise and delicate models, often offered as a limited run. In many cases, the production has moved in to countries with cheaper production costs and many cases sloppycontrol on the finish. With modern technolgy, like DCC things have become more complicated andsteep price tags. This makes people think twice before ordering stuff.. Hattons was the company that set the standard on many things, customer service being one, prompt deliveries, despite after Brexit some problems withthe customs here in EU. Their website was always updated, showing theitems that was truely stocked, not just stuff that was offered some years ago and a they lack staff to understand or update their web site, it remains as it was back in 2013 or so. The rise on the price tags are alarming, I have seen some "new" models with new retailer prices increased with 30 or som per cent, with the only update is a new paint scheme and road number.
The hobby isn't dead. Its just hard to get started. Its also getting too expensive, new models are out of my price range and most of my collection was bought as spares or repairs 20 years ago and the prices have gone up. Even the price of wood is stalling my progression. The issue I've had is space, not lack of it but what it was needed for. Life just gets in the way.
I'd disagree, there's plenty of ways to get started even on a budget. All model railways are built around the constraints we have, whether it's time, space, money, or even imagination. If the price of wood is stopping you, check out Ikea and get one of their Lack shelves for £13 - ready made baseboard for a nice little shunting layout right there that can be attached to wall easily and kept out of the way. Thanks for watching 😃
Some excellent points made (no pun intended). I have recently started into the huge world of modelling, this comes directly from people like yourself and also Chadwick who I also follow. You guys are the inspiration that younger generation will be interested in through your informative videos and non stop enthusiasm. Keep it going please. Cheers TMRG. 👍
That's great to hear and I do think what is coming with more social media centred modelling, is a sense of enthusiasm that I haven't really seen in hobby before. It's the core principle that this entire channel is based on. Thanks for watching 😃
Excellent review of the hobby. I see it growing and evolving, and I am very happy with, for example, Dapol getting into O gauge. What great products they have in O which was simply unaffordable a decade ago. I am disappointed that Hattons has gone. As an international customer from Florida, the shipping, prices and speed of delivery from DHL was outstanding.
Absolutely, a decade ago having multiple manufacturers supporting O gauge in this way seemed to be a pipe dream... and it's not just O gauge, 009 now has a healthy RTR range and even TT:120 is making a comeback. If anything, as the hobby becomes more niche and less about pleasing the general train set market, we get more specialised products as a result. I do think it is overseas customers like yourself who will suffer most from the closure of Hattons. Hopefully one of the other retailers will step up to the mark... but if they don't, perhaps that's a sign of where Hattons overstretched themselves. Thanks for watching 😃
Check out the 16mm society. Yes it's a larger scale but it's thriving with a huge show every year. It doesn't get the publicity that the smaller scales get.
A very factual and optimistic outlook on the state of the hobby 👌. I hope the hobby stays strong in the UK as I'm just starting out in my early 30s. There are plenty of people under 40 wanting to return to the hobby or start out - the cost of housing and buying a place with enough space for a railway is quite a challenge!
Great to hear you're jut getting started! Yes there are challenges but different constraints have always been a part of the hobby and can help dictate our layouts. If space is an issue I'd check out the Inglenook shunting puzzle - a nice small little layout that only requires one loco and a few wagons for hours of fun. Thanks for watching 😃
It’s quite sad, but I don’t believe this hobby will die, it’s been running since the 40s and is still here, I completely agree with you with how Hornby spoiled us, thanks for the video!
You talk a lot of good sense here. I returned to the hobby 20 years ago at 40. My issue with 'clubs' is that they are old fashioned and a bit up themselves, being primarily intersted in commitees, insurance and tea. The modern approach you discuss is obviously going to be the saviour of the hobby.
Yes I suspect you're not alone in your feeling with clubs and the more online and social aspect of modelling has really taken off in recent years. I don't think the clubs will die out all together but they'll evolve over time into something different. Thanks for watching 😃
It is worth noting that the MRC (Model Railway Club), which is the oldest model railway club in the world runs a special Saturday club for young railway enthusiasts. Also if you look at those that went to see Making Tracks III - there were plenty of people going to see it of all ages including young children.
Yes two very good points. I think what Pete Waterman and the Railnuts group have been doing with Making Tracks by letting people get involved in the running is exactly the right approach to take. Thanks for watching 😃
Probably the most rounded and sensible pieces around this subject I have seen. I returned to the hobby as a result of Hornby getting into TT:120, many others have too and many new modellers. The challenge for the hobby is to continue to present a welcoming and positive face and stop the snidey back biting rubbish. I like playing trains and making stuff, if you do too then great 👍
Absolutely, all the hysteria about these developments just seemed a bit silly and over the top. It's just toy trains after all, while it's a big business for some, of the majority of us it's a bit of fun. Thanks for watching 😃
model on yea just on another point I recently brought a Hornby po (BR) class 08 as I wanted a small shunter just wondering what is the best dcc decoder for it cheers for any advice
Hi Alan, I tend to use Zimo decoders personally so for the Class 08 I imagine it would probably be an 8 Pin decoder. If you wanted sound you could also check out the HM7000 TXS decoders from Hornby, I believe they have an 08 profile or one coming very soon. Hope that helps and thanks for watching 🤩
Great comments. I do think that RUclips is a big bonus for the hobby. You are correct in saying that there has been a lot of improvements over the last few years ie look at all the sound options! Keep up the good work.
I certainly think so... but then I may be biased! 😅 Seriously though, it's great to see the hobby starting to embrace social media and new technology. While there will always be a place for analog trains whizzing round a train set style layout, the change the hobby is going through on this front is truly exciting for those that are willing to explore it. Thanks for watching 👍
I have not engaged in model railway construction for around twenty years, though I still have an interest and may well start up again, I still have most of my rolling stock and plenty of unbuilt kits etc. I was very sorry to hear about Hattons, as I used to order from them regularly and found them to be very nice people to deal with. I think there will always be an interest in model railways, as is the case with all creative hobbies. And of of course their are some who just like playing with model railways because it helps them unwind and relax, and why not?
Absolutely, while the closure of Hattons is sad and I feel for all the staff, realistically it doesn't stop us from playing trains. Even those in the process of building layouts can still get supplies from elsewhere. Thanks for watching 😃
As a US customer , I did order from Hatton's, frankly more from Gaugemaster. The hobby is just changing and there are many new manufactures of structures and accessories.
Firstly great video. Secondly I agree with your comments on how people now interact. I enjoy learning about the hobby through RUclips channels and engaging with the livestreams. At some point I'll share my layout with others too. As you and many others have said the hobby IS alive and well, just changing from the old way we used to do things.
Yes it's certainly changed the way a lot of us learn new modelling skills. I couldn't imagine going to an exhibition and spending half the day watching someone give a demonstration and that being my only opportunity to learn new things. This is really where RUclips comes in handy as it's so easy to share and access these new ideas. Thanks for watching 😃
There will always be exceptions to the rule. On a similar note, I volunteer at a heritage railway - a pastime also mostly dominated by older gentleman. Yet at the railway where I volunteer many of the active members including those in charge at all levels are in their 20s & 30s... that's certainly not the norm at every heritage railway but it shows it can happen. Thanks for watching 😃
As an OS customer, 90% of my purchases were from Hattons, due to their TRUNK option and the incredible postage deal they had with DHL. Buying from the other major competing outlets is not feasible due to the postage costs. Ebay falls into the same category because of their hideously expensive in house international postage. Hopefully Rails, Kernow, Footplate etc will learn from Hattons expertise and become a successful international retailer. Best wishes to all the staff at Hattons - Well Done , to the end.
I think one of two things will happen... either another retailer will step up to the mark, or none will because it's too difficult/expensive to make it worthwhile in the long term. If the later is the case then we may have an idea what contributed to Hattons current situation. Thanks for watching 😃
👏🏼👏🏼 well said, the hobby only dies when those who love it stop, there will always be a love for model railways. It’s just the times have changed and so has the way we celebrate it.
Absolutely! The positive to take from all the "negative talk" flying about is that if enough people that deeply about the hobby still then there's still a market to cater for. It's when these things happen and people stop caring that we need to worry. Thanks for watching 😃
I bought a lot of stuff from Hattons . They repeatedly sent me rubbish . Yes some of it was 2nd hand , but nothing was ever checked or serviced and reguarly arrived with major missing parts or broken . Their aftersales was terrible , they didnt care at all in the last 2 years so i stopped buying from them and cancelled all my pre orders due to it .
Same here I bought a used Standard Class 4 75006. Yes it was mainline but said recently tested and fine. It arrived to my surprise with broken valve gear and a snapper slide bar.
@@Northerner_Transport_Hub such a shame mate . One of my purchases was Sir Nigel Gresely , i model in O gauge so nothing is cheap lol . Yes , was listed as tested etc , but when i got it i found it wouldnt even move under its own power . Everything was completely locked up with cat hair (haha) (plus missing parts) , i had to strip it down myself. The final nail in the coffin was buying a rail coach , the brass bearings for an axle were missing entirely and Hattons told me to go to Dapol to buy them ! (nla, i had to turn new ones up myself on my lathe).
I do suspect that as a result of them getting bigger and bigger a certain amount of sloppiness crept in. When you become a business of that size it's harder to care about each of your individual customers when you're trying to get orders out the doors as quickly as possible. That in turn leads to faithful customers leaving and eventually the situation we're in now. It's sad but perhaps a warning to the other major retailers too. Thanks for watching 😃
Best recent points on this subject…. I am newly retired, have modelled since the 1990s, but have never once considered joining a club. I really imagine lots of pedantic people going on about Great Western railway and how many rivets there were in this particular tender! The internet will drive the Hobby forward not the clubs or exhibitions. Hattons were great and I feel very sorry for the staff. My last order from them arrived successfully in indonesia without any problem in a few days. Strong international presence will be missed. But my impression was they were trying to be all things to all people and thus not making enough return on their cost base. I bet the business got too complex and they are correctly pulling the plug with honour intact. The tooling will survive as it always does…..
Speaking as a model train enthusiast living outside the UK. We would not have noticed the "death of model railroading" if it were not for specifically British RUclips channels all referring to the closing of Hattons. Years ago a whole bunch of the continental European brands went bust and were bought up, the hobby marches on.
This is also a very good point that the hobby is much bigger than just the UK too. Yes British railway modelling might have it's centre here but the entire hobby isn't riding on one retailer or one show in one specific country. Thanks for watching 😃
This is a great video and a lovely reminder of what the future holds, I’m not ‘young’ but I guess by Warley standards I might be and recently got back into things and between yourself and Chadwick you’ve got me modelling again, so keep up the good work
I wouldn’t say the hobby is over, not yet at least. We may have lost a few things, but there are still many shops, still many manufacturers, and still many conventions. I went to one last weekend and there were a lot of people, showing the hobby still has a lot of interest.
Absolutely, like I said in the video it's only one show and one retailer. Others will fill the gap and honestly most exhibitions seem to be busier than ever. Thanks for watching 😃
You have a lovely selection of locomotives. Although I only have around ten locomotives in my collection, I very much enjoy seeing different locomotives and trains. Belonging to my local model railway club, I see quite a lot of different locomotives on a much larger layout than mine.
This is one of the advantages of a club and one I'm surprised they don't advertise a lot more. Bigger layouts and more variety of stock for those that don't have tons of space for layouts and locos. Thanks for watching 😃
To be completely honest, the exact opposite is happening. The hobby is growing bigger and bigger. I know one day I would like to have some little model railway or a big one, and I'm young. Some might say a bit too young to use things like a box cutter knife, but I don't care. You live and learn. Learning earlier on in life is always better.
I mean, the entire point of the video was to point that out. Similarly, I think clubs could definitely entice new younger members by engaging with them and teaching essential skills, rather than chastising them for not know the basics. Thanks for watching 👍
I have said before, "Is it us that is asking for more and more detail or is it the manufacturers competing against each other thus pushing and pushing the prices up and up, before long we will see the £1000 OO scale Locomotive. It is thanks to the retailers leading up to Christmas offering Locomotives at a 50% discount, that I was able to buy two Locomotives. The first time in ten years. Martin. (Thailand)
There's definitely been a push in recent years from enthusiasts for more detail and more accuracy in the models released. If that wasn't the case then the new entrants to the market wouldn't be focusing on highly detailed models and would make a budget range instead - but so far none have gone that route. If anything competition between manufacturers has the potential to bring prices down as we saw with the Manors from both Dapol and Accurascale which were both very keenly priced. Thanks for watching 😃
Hey gang, well this has certainly been a popular video! Obviously I normally try to reply to all the comments but that's proving to be a bit more difficult this time. Please know though that I am reading them all even if I'm not able to respond to each and every single one. Don't forget to be kind and courteous to each other in the meantime and thanks for watching 😃
What people are not really discussing is the cost especially when we’re in the middle of a cost of living crisis. End of 2023 reports are the British standard of living has dropped to levels of the 1950’s when they compared £ for £ equivalent. I’ve only just started but everything is going to be 2nd hand & build from scratch.
@@Sean.hinchlffe I think a lot of people are discussing the cost. Every time I review a loco there are complaints about how high the price is. But as you've pointed out, there are more ways to enjoy the hobby than just buying the absolute latest release.
May I congratulate you on your channel, it’s the best I’ve seen on construction. It will be helping me when I build my layout. Especially the embankments & bridges.
I’ve just built my baseboard & frame. Is it best to paint the baseboard ? If so do I use gloss paint ? Many thanks once again
@@Sean.hinchlffe Thanks Sean, glad you've been finding the videos useful. Personally I don't tend to paint the baseboards but instead I give the overall base layer of landscape a coat of dark brown to act as a base layer. I literally just use cheap acrylic for this though.
As per usual the media get their snouts in trough and everything gets hyped, just like we are in the middle of ww3 and facing conscription. lMAO. Hattons lost a lot of trade by upsetting Bachmann, self inflicted imho, just saying
One thing that bothers me immensely about the British 00 model railway scene is the absolute stagnation when it comes to which kinds of models are being produced. There is almost no modern-image rolling stock available ready-to-run by any of the main(-ish) manufacturers! All of the important EMUs that are and were a daily sight to millions - the Electrostars, the 321s, the 319s, the Aventras, several kinds of Desiros, 365/465 Networkers and the PEP units - are totally absent from the modelling scene. It is basically impossible to create a realistic modern-image UK layout, because there is so little modern rolling stock. I'm sure that if the manufacturers actually built the stuff that people see every day, there would be renewed interest in maybe acquiring some of those models for oneself. I refuse to believe that all the Brits want a 37th variation of a GWR ten-wheeler or some NER 0-6-0 goods engine. Modern image has to be properly represented, starting with the most common types first.
As an American, that's really funny because we have the opposite problem. With the loss of IHC, Proto 2000, and Bachmann Spectrum, we have a huge lack of steam locomotives. Unless you want a massive 4-8-4 or articulated loco that costs $500 or more, then those are being released every other year.
To be fair there are a couple of projects, Hornby are doing the 755 (and suspected 756?) as well as 800 and Pendlelino, Dapol announced their 323 to my great excitement, and Realtrack are doing the 156.
Many of the class 20, 37s are just leaving service, and 66s have been released nearly every year I've been back in the hobby.
I agree however we are particularly short on EMUs (319s for example, networker family including 325). It would be nice to see more modern stuff, as it would help attract youngster who could model what they see.
I suspect one of the reasons they don't is that the models at the moment are often single livery, hence they sell less. The other will likely be the lack of nostalgic enthusiast appeal.
I think there’s tons of modern image stuff in both the uk and US. I am a bit biased though, as I’m more interested in steam, and I switched from North American to British because of a lack of steam era stuff available.
I think it depends on how you define stagnation. If you look at the types of steam locos produced in recent years there's some really exciting stuff being done that's never been made before, especially with pre-grouping and industrials taking more of the limelight.
But equally I can appreciate how frustrating it must be for modern image modellers too. I do wonder if part of the reason is not only the cost of a model EMU (both the initial tooling costs and the subsequent RRP) but also if there are significant variations between different operators than just the liveries these days. The manufacturers can't get away with slapping on a different paint job anymore but potentially having several intricate tooling options across an entire EMU could be incredibly costly... further pushing up the RRP and potentially impacting sales.
So the manufacturers fall back on a pretty little steam loco in a colourful livery that's cheaper to produce and will probably sell just as well. Thanks for watching 😃
I think, personally, modern image hasn't been done commonly because manufacturers don't think there is a big demand for, what they think are, niece class of locos and trains. But that's how I see it.
I have lived long enough now to see the hobby through its up's and down's. It never dies it just becomes less mainstream as times change and the economy shifts. I have just returned to the hobby after many decades away and I am bowled over by the amount of choice not to mention DCC, static grass and 3D printing. Yes I agree probably a tad expensive to buy new, but that is what the second hand market is for and that is where I have been purchasing a lot of the rolling stock. I was at a model railway show last week the first for me in decades and I noted the age demographic was noticeably split. The old guard and young bright eyed youngsters were there aplenty. So, the future is exactly where you say it is. No longer will the clubs be a place of refuge for the model railwayer, social media has taken its place. I have done exactly that myself upon my return. Look at any industry now and you will see closures and talk of hard times but that is how things work. Personally I am very hopeful for the future and will enjoy everything it has to offer.
I'm of a similar opinion to you, having also returned to the hobby after several decades away.
I think it's also perhaps a bit closer to mainstream right now than it has been in the past. I mean in the last few years there have been a fair few TV programs dedicated to the hobby. The fact that these closures have attracted the national newspapers is perhaps further evidence of that... if this was all happening and no-one cared, mainstream media and hobbyists alike, that's when I think we'd start to see the death of the hobby. But the fact that there's been so much talk, even if a lot of it is negative, it shows that people care enough about the hobby to allow it to continue.
And what you say about having so much choice now is equally true. There are so many ways to enjoy the hobby from RTR, scratch building, 3D printing and laser cutting. Even down to whether you build your own layout, follow them on social media or just visit a show occasionally. In some ways we've never had it so good.
Thanks for watching 😃
Very well said!
I think your views are spot on. I also wish that manufacturers can make ranges of more simpler and maybe slightly less detailed models that would be more affordable for the younger modellers. From my experience when placing pre orders they are quickly unavailable due to their popularity so that shows that there is still high demand. Thanks to channels like yours this has enabled me to get started in the hobby, keep up the positivity!
Well that was the hornby railroad range, but prices have gone bonkers in that range as well, so there you have it.
The thing is newer entrants like Accurascale and Rapido don't have a huge back catalog of older toolings to pull from, so they would have to spend a lot of money to make a product to sell for cheaper. From their point of view it makes more sense to go for the upper end of the market and undercut the big boys there.
Even the Railroad budget range from Hornby is showing that manufacturing costs are still quite high even when the tooling is all paid for. I suspect there's still more profit to be made on a limited higher end model than selling tons of more budget friendly products. That said we've seen that they're investigating moving some production to India to combat costs... whether that will happen or not we don't know but at least they're investigating. Thanks for watching 😃
Not just younger modellers everyone of all ages who wants a simpler less delicate running stable
@@ThatModelRailwayGuyHow exactly is outsourcing cheaper
Hi as a member of the Warley MRC can I just clear something up. The club is saying it’s not the younger generation that it the problem the fact is younger members like myself (I’m 52) don’t have the space time to run the show it takes over 4000 man hours just to organise the show and this is not including the four full days setting up running and strip down the show. We have over 100 full time members and we just don’t have the spare time with work and family commitments.
Also traders are dropping out going to shows as they feel the on line sales satisfy the business. Last year we lost quite a few including Rails of Sheffield, Scalemodelscenery and so on.
Hope this information helps.
Regards
Andy
Interesting. They certainly didn't make that clear from their statement, at least in my opinion. Saying "...the next generation of younger enthusiasts...does not seem to be materialising" is very different from stating there's no-one within the club willing to take over the running of such a complex event. I don't think anyone could have argued with the later. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Agreed. The market conditions and “the next generation of younger enthusiasts required to take over the staffing and running of such prestigious events [, which] does not seem to be materialising,” were the main takeaway points from my reading of the statement. If the fact is that younger members of the club can’t, fair enough, yet I’d propose it wasn’t communicated clearly in their statement. Coming from the background of a history major at uni (I’m certainly no Robert Plummer, but I have moderate experience evaluating government decrees, varying primary source documents, ect.) my interpretation of Warley’s announcement would have largely followed yours ThatModelRailwayGuy.
I don’t want to come off as rude, but 52 is considered young in the hobby!? Are the veterans all like 90 then?
@@stultusmcgee9099 No worries; I understand what you’re asking. I believe the OP’s wording is meant to suggest he’s one of the younger members in his club; naturally, that also suggests that people in their 20s, 30s, and 40s are not a large percentage (if at all) of Warley membership. People like TMRG, Sam’s Trains, and Luke Ryan (all presumably 30s) are the typical young faces of the hobby at large. And we mostly (but not always) favour social media over traditional clubs, so suggesting that 52 is a younger age for Warley makes sense.
Many of the veterans I’ve seen or talked with tend to range from 60-90, so there’s a fairly good mixture there too.
I am someone who is in their mid / late 40's, and just getting back into the hobby after many many years away. Your comments and points are spot on about the issues you have covered. I have no desire to join a model railway club but have found inspiration from youtubers such as yourself. I have a baseboard (6'11" x 4'), layout, track, locos and rolling stock sorted (new and second hand), and over the next month or so will have it up and running hopefully. By the summer I plan to landscape and ballast it - this is will be done outside due to lack of space in the house!!!!
What sort of layout do you want to build?
@@OscarOSullivan just using a plan from the Peco book that I liked. No specific theme etc, as it will something that can be enjoyed by my daughter. Also hoping to incorporate some of the buildings that have survived the the thirty five years.
I wish I could like this video twice because I couldn’t agree with you more in regard to younger modellers. The reason I returned to the hobby is because of RUclipsrs such as yourself making me realise there are people my age in the hobby! Model railway clubs that complain about the younger generation not taking an interest only have themselves to blame if they are anything like my local club. I tried so hard to join a local model railway club and explained to them I would be more than happy to be a member and join. I am currently up to 4 unread messages as they have now completely blanked me. I am a graphic designer and explained I would free of charge help them improve their advertising, help them make a website and more and after that they stopped communicating with me. It is so disheartening that this is the response of the older generation when the younger generation says they want to help.
Thank you and I'm so glad to hear that the RUclips side of the hobby has helped you find the spark, even if your local club hasn't been so forthcoming. Sadly I suspect your experience isn't uncommon (I've been in similar situations myself) and it's so frustrating when there's a disconnect between those wanting to enrich the hobby and those wanting to play gatekeeper. Thanks for watching 😃
I am not a railway hobbyist but I used to be a pro model maker and pro diorama maker. I truly admire the diorama hobbyists but wince at the high costs and hours needed for their great results. The fragility and difficulty in transportation, the lack of public display venues, no longer having the space as homes become smaller - all these factors hugely challenge the hobbyists. My only suggestion is to mount a go pro style camera upon a carriage, shoot and edit audio and shot angles. Add dubbed sound. Upload the spectacular results to RUclips. Take the entire diorama scene to the next level.
I think it's the offer of graphic design help that's the problem. It's going to come over as marketing or even a scam. Looking like your real interest is to promote your business rather than join the club. Just show interest and ask to join. Attend a show or two (if they have them) as a member of the public. You can improve the club website later.
@@highloughsdrifter1629 That’s quite presumptuous of you to presume my intentions. I had already attended several meeting with the club, I had also been visiting the clubs shows since 2019 and gotten to know some members by the time I suggested helping them improve their marketing and offering to put together a website, it was THEN that I was completely blanked by them and still to this day I have yet to receive any response despite sending multiple follow up messages. I literally just wanted to join a club and have somewhere to go to discuss the hobby. I have a full time job as a graphic designer and am in no need of marketing myself, weird if you to suggest this. This was literally me offering to help a local model railway club improve themselves to help bolster their numbers and appeal to a younger generation. Don’t appreciate this response taking their side, when it is clear they are gatekeeping the hobby and do not wish to allow any younger person in because they dare to say they can help them do things better.
@@CymruRails If my previous message has been misconstrued I appogise. I wasn't presuming your intentions at all, I fact I was assuming only good intent on your part. What I was doing was suggesting that that the club might be presuming those intentions. It's an unfortunate fact that offers of online help / collaboration are rather common (most RUclipsrs get them, for a start) and generally come with a catch of some kind.
I really hope the hobby doesn’t die. I’ve just got into trains so I hope it doesn’t die but I don’t think it will.😊😊
I highly doubt it will. People have been saying the hobby is dying out for decades, and yet it's still here. It may not be as big as it was back in the 30s but if anything I think we've seen a small increase in interest in the last few years... just look at all the TV programs that have focus on model railways recently. Thanks for watching 🤩
Never been a more vibrant and alive hobby.
Hornby have more to announce later, other model shops exist, other exhibitions happen which are arguably better to attend as they are less crowded and you have more of a chance to actually enjoy whats on show instead of feeling the need to rush around a huge amount of stuff.
Everyone needs to chill and enjoy.
Same "its the death of😮" stuff that hits preservation now and then when a loco changes hands or one railway hits some tougher financial times than another. Remember all those stories yet new railways are still being opened, even more stuff purchased for preservation, even more stuff changing hands and being restored, whole new buisnesses have formed around restoring stuff instead of volunteers doing it or in conjunction with volunteers doing it.
Railway people are very easily led down a path of pessimism to the land of the doomer. Not sure why but it seems an easier sell to us lot than most.
Yes this was exactly my point in the video. In some ways we've never had it so good with all the different companies producing a such a wide variety of products these days. Not to mention the endless creativity and inspiration we can find both online and at shows.
But as you've correctly picked up on, we railway modellers love a good moan for some reason and if we all take a bit more of a positive outlook, maybe things aren't anywhere near as bad as they seem. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy in some ways there's even positivity in hattons shutting as their business was largely based on buying up overproduction to take it off the hands of manufacturers that pourly optimised batch sizes and then were willing to get rid of stuff at or near cost to the manufacturer by passing it to hattons and them selling it cheap as chips, the fact hattons business model is failing means manufacturers actually improved their operations so they don't end up with huge overstock of stuff for hattons to swoop in and handle the sale of, this should actually mean that the position of some drama hit manufacturers becomes a bit better going forward as they have got a better handle on things and might not need repeated bailouts and might become viable businesses going forward that aren't in need of constant life support or end up back in the same mess they've found themselves in over and over.
The positive aspect is there, much as it sucks for the staff of hattons as you noted.
Of course the hobby is dying ……it’s a shame but do you think that theres enough of the younger generations out there interested in paying out hundreds of pounds to sit and watch a toy train or two go round and round and round ! Just look at the ages of the majority in attendance at any model railway exhibition . Most people into the hobby are Gen X kids that had train sets as kids back in the late 60’s & 70’s ……………….and return to the hobby today as middle aged / old age men.
@@stupididiot6116 so, those people coming back in middle age, they don't have kids? Who won't see their parents play with a layout they are now getting in middle age and then won't just be more fodder for the same familiar cycle of show some interest as a kid, go off and do life in late teens and early 20s, get older have kids and catch the nostalgia bug and go back to the hobby?
There's plenty of young people engaging with the hobby, plenty drifting in and out of it as their lives change. It's not dying.
As the video states just look at the number of people sharing their modelling around these parts, there's thousands upon thousands of small channels if you go down the rabbit hole of this hobby just on youtube.
There's a whole new generation of modellers out there that is not at all small, will some move away and come back later, yup but always was the way. Same thing actually applies to the other interests we blame for stealing modellers away, people play games as kids then get busy with life then come back to it later on, quite a lot of them do, so many that I'd bet that most go years without being involved in playing games to any serious degree then come back to it. The market going crazy with nostalgia driven collecting of older game systems and games in recent years is highly indicitive of this. It's just the nature of the beast.
Change is not death, it's change, it's just life. Probably the greatest thing you, I, or anyone could do if we love the hobby is stop saying or questioning if it is dying, you think anyone is going to be stoked to get involved in a hobby that is packed with people who constantly say that hobby is dying?
Nothings gonna drive people away faster than advertising ourselves as a moldy old dying hobby past it's glory days full of crap new models that don't live up some anemoia driven view of what the hobby once was. Sadly this is what many do.
@@Trainskitsetc yes they have kids ! ………kids that prefer computer games rather than sit watching a toy train
When I went to see the Making Tracks layout in Chester cathedral I was pleasantly surprised by the number of families with kids there, and also how the team behind the layout interacted with the youngsters. Definitely encouraging.
Absolutely! I really feel they've hit upon something there. Not only engaging with the general public rather than just modellers but doing so in a friendly way. I suspect the vast majority of people who went don't consider themselves railway modellers but I'm willing to be a few left wanting to know more. Thanks for watching 🤩
I got back into the hobby from seeing RUclips videos of people building dioramas. There seems to be loads of creative people making stuff: cosplay, dioramas, warhammer, model making etc. Really inspirational stuff with loads of cross pollination in terms of techniques and materials. Add to that the fact that laser cutters and 3d printers are accessible now means people can build their own or buy from loads of little businesses popping up making things quite cheaply. All of my interactions with the hobby have come from RUclips and dedicated Facebook groups. I wouldn't be against joining a club but at the moment I get everything I want online I quite enjoy the hobby on my own as a way to wind down from dealing with people at work...
Spot on about the younger modellers if you check out social media the hobby is alive and kicking but people interact in different ways these days and clubs have to find a way to stay current or they will fall by the wayside. Not sure what the answer is but I do feel the future of shows may be more business run than club run.
Yes I was very surprised at Warley making such a point about the lack of younger modellers when they are out there. If anything it potentially shows the clubs own shortcomings to bring in new members than anything else.
Warley was very much an exception though. Out of all the major shows it was one of the few that was volunteer/club run. Nowadays it's more common to see these more complex exhibitions run by the magazines or specific event teams.
The smaller, more local shows that take place in the local school or church hall though I can see continuing to be lead by clubs as it's a good money maker for them. Thanks for watching 😃
I hope that hattons dont completely dissapear because i own on of their 66s and its great! I think that the hobby will do fine and most people stay home with their models these days. I have recently started building baseboards for my first proper model railway!
As I mentioned the Class 66 tooling has already been sold to Accurascale who have their range coming very soon. I suspect the other Hattons Originals will find similar homes in the future too. Best of luck with your new layout and thanks for watching 😃
I do think their is a strong case to be made about how getting started in the hobby has been less and less of a priority. Super realistic and detailed locos are wonderful to see, but most people starting out usually don't buy £135 models. I think it would do wonders for bringing even more people to the hobby if £30-£40 locos with enough detail to fit that price range were held to as high of a priority as newer and more expensive locomotives. Locos similar to Hornbys E2, Jinty, 14xx & J72, but at a reduced price that refeclts a budget model, but at the same time has enough detail to get people excited to buy more.
You're absolutely right in the sense that we have been spoilt since the early 2000s with this hobby. Look at the Hornby Spam Cans and the rebuilt merchants, still great after all these years. My Grandfather's generation had the brilliant K's kits which they made themselves and something which looked like a pannier tank did. Now we have nearly every locomotive with every rivet and every bracket.
I used to voluntarily run on an exhibition layout at Alexandra Palace and the monumental costs to put on these great big shows are enormous, electricity, heating, fuel, storage space and trade stands are a lot of money. Personally I feel that local model shows in our leisure centres and parish halls will make a come back, but that can only be achieved if we're less full throttle on the prototype, but encouraged to get new, both young and older people into the hobby, because some, not all of us do our hobby for the social side.
In my slightly larger scale, there's nothing more satisfying than running a loco you know inside and out, striking up conversation with an on looker and then a few months down the line they're asking if they can bring their new loco to your layout. Although a different approach to your video, I think involvement and encouragement on social media, and in person will really save this hobby.
Yes certainly we had it very good in the early 2000s with fantastic detail but still low prices - obviously that isn't the case anymore but many of those models still hold up well alongside modern releases.
As for smaller shows making a comeback, I think it's already happening. I'm involved with the exhibition at the heritage railway where I volunteer. We've been running the show in our engine shed for the last 3 years and it's far from a large show but it's seen more attendees every single year - to the point where last year we were worried about over crowding. The smaller shows are out there and they're gaining more traction, especially as social media and online promotion makes it easier to get the word out there. Thanks for watching 😃
Hi That Model Railway Guy,
This is the first time I’ve ever commented on a model railway RUclips channel, but watch a number of them!
I got back into the model a few years ago, now I have a little more disposable income, but I haven’t bought from a retailer since ModelZone closed.
I’ve never been to a show and only watch RUclips channels, as I just don’t have the time. All my family are the same, RUclips is the club of the future! Thanks for all your videos!
Hi Adam, well let me be the first to say welcome!
I think you're like a lot of people, time is perhaps more of an issue than money and it's much easier to enjoy seeing other peoples projects come together in real time on social media these days. If I didn't have this channel to keep me going I wouldn't have achieved even half the stuff I've done over the last few years. Thanks for watching 😃
You have done a wonderful job in this video addressing the recent news and covered them to perfection, especially the case of the younger modelers. You are 100% correct about our clubs now being on Instagram. The hobby has taken leaps and bounds in the last 10 years and I know more younger people than older who actually enjoy the hobby! I model in O gauge, as do a fair few others in my neck of the woods and that can only mean that there are even more who model in OO around by me, even if they keep it to themselves. The only negative I see for myself in the hobby is the price gap slowly closing between OO and O gauges which may be forcing some people out of buying the new stuff or alternatively, moving to O gauge! This hobby has seen many ups and downs, now is currently a down for clubs but the online community of railway modellers is stronger than ever.
Your views for the hobby in this video could not be anymore alike to my own. great video!
Don't worry. The year could have started worse if they had passed a law banning the use of the word "Prototypical".
But does it really matter if people model prototypical scenes or not? I've seen incredible layouts the are ultra-realistic which I think are fantastic... and also train set style layouts that keep me entertained for hours. We all enjoy different things and the hobby is about having fun, regardless of how you choose to engage... I think we forget that sometimes. Thanks for watching 😃
Firstly, gosh your layout looks good and I really like your positive thoughts. I have only been in this hobby since COVID and I am discovering new things all the time with so much more modelling to do. I know from all the things I have read and seen that the hobby has gone through many ups and downs. Hornby being bought by the massive Tri-ang and then Tri-ang-Hornby going broke and being resurrected as Hornby and that nearly going broke as well. Not to mention all the other brands that have come and gone. Through all of this the hobby has survived because it is obviously such a good hobby. I agree with you, the Hattons and Warley things are just an unfortunate blip. I am sure something similar will happen here in Australia sooner or later, it's just the way things go. When you are as old as me, you see the patterns being repeated. 👍😊
I was born into this hobby and left it in my late teens. Not because i wanted to but because I simply did not have time and had so many other interests, work and families.
But it always remained a found thought to return to the hobby. I always kept in touch with the model trains through my father and brother and people who i met and kept in touch with.
Having lived abroad for some years and now returned to the UK i work at a large engineering company and i was astonished to find a few people who had layouts or were interested in model railways or railways in general. None who had joined a club but were simply happy to build and collect locos .
Hattons has perhaps circum like you say to the present financial situation in the UK. Maybe it over extend due in part to being marooned by our departure from the EU . The COVID virus impacted manufacturing globally causing shortages and global inflation. Wages high energy bills business taxes have had impacts on many businesses in the retail sector.
My assessment is the hobby is still healthy and technically moved along so much since my early days . The second hand market will catch up as more of the new era locos will become more affordable. Old models will be modernized and people will be able to print there own.
And we can can still save our money and purchase off the shelf.
I have noticed a gap in the market from plastic kit manufacturers like Tamiya , Airfix , Meng and others who could make a move towards the model railway kits .
WE ARE AlIVE .
I'm off on a slight tangent here, but, I am now 69 and remember paying regular visits to Hattons (when it was a proper model shop) with my best friend John, on a Saturday to look at the layouts, and dreaming that one day I would create a super layout of my own. I also remember the time I had saved enough money to buy one of the 2nd hand toy cars that they sold. It was a "Matchbox" Vauxhall Victor (F), which had been painted a light grey colour, silver headlights and a dash of red paint for the rear lights. We moved away from Liverpool in 1966, so I must have been 8 or 9 when I started going to Hattons. We could walk to Hattons on Smithdown Road from our street. We also spent many an hour sneaking around Edge Hill Engine Shed, especially of a Saturday afternoon, hiding from the "Men" between the lines of engines, hoping not to be caught and subsequently escorted out through the long tunnel the railway men would use to access the sheds.
Spot on! Clubs are invariably run by the "old guard" and will they will not accept new ideas. I'm sorry to say the old adage "We've always done it that way!" is as true today as it's always been. Long live the independent modeler - shows will be run on a modular basis in the future as well.
I have had trains since the mid 1960's in the US. I started out with O-27 Marx and Lionel, then received an HO set so that it could be expanded more economically. Family members all knew what scale I modelled. Birthdays and Christmas always brought something interesting from family members in Germany and closer to home. As a teen I was hired by the owner of a local hobby store, went to the distribution warehouses and shows with the stores and customers wish lists.
It was a great hobby. I lost most of what I had thanks to a vindictive soon to be ex while going through a divorce. After remarrying and purchasing another home I had plans of building another layout. A sister in law and her child needed a place to live. The train room was remodeled. Things were put on hold -
A severe work injury further complicated finances for a layout and equipment acquisition.
In the last 20 years the costs have become ridiculous.
I peruse shops from time to time. I truly miss the kit availability. I loved the assembly process. With electronics the grandkids seem to have other interests.
Many whom I knew in the hobby have found other interests due to cost and availability issues.
I fear that the manufacturers have raised the bar too high for many.
Just my opinion.
At the Hoddesdon Model and Railway Club we have around six junior members. All of them are interested in trains, cars and planes, and we have a stand for junior members to display their talents and skills on major exhibition days.
That's great! I've seen a few other clubs that have a junior section as well who often have their own layout that they take to exhibitions to operate themselves alongside the club's main layout. It's about encouraging those skills an enthusiasm rather than saying, "you're too you I'll do it for you."
Often they're some of the best layouts to watch at shows because the kids make sure there's plenty of action on the layout constantly.
Thanks for watching 😃
There was a nice article on BBC News in the morning, that was asking the same question. It is a shame they did not deep dive into the benefits of this hobby, just the expense!
And that's sort of what I was addressing here. When the mainstream media do pick up on things within our hobby they don't always have the time resources to do a full in depth search of the overall situation. It's a summary of events at best with a dash of opinion flavoured to match a catchy headline. It's understandable but not something we should loose our heads over. Thanks for watching 😃
I just want to point out British modelers are in a lot better sted than US modelers as price continue to skyrocket due to the expectance of DCC and sound, the older generations gatekeep and actively try to uninvolve the younger generations, and as our general economic conditions worsen.
I've been banned from several online model train communites for pointing out the prices of model trains are quickly becoming unobtainable and things like Build to Order aren't helping. Luckly that mindset hasn't invaded the UK and people like you and Sam's Trains are keeping the manufacture's honest.
I think we might already be in that situation in the UK too though. Look at the amount of comments here of people complaining about prices or those saying they tried to join a club but gave up.
That's not to be all doom and gloom though. There are still plenty of ways to enjoy the hobby. Thanks for watching 👍
I miss Beatties 😢 great shops!
Great video and many share this outlook. it's only doom mongers that jump on the bandwagon, I also didn't appreciate some of the views on rmweb that people should stop complaining about the price of the hobby. It's ridiculous. Point rodding. Bits of mass produced plastic costing over £10...Hornby station £30+... Simple 4 wheel wagons £30+...railroad locos £80+...why? when they can't cost anywhere near that to make!
The hobby will be fine but it's crying out for a manufacturer to retake the entry level market with sensible pricing or a change in approach. Why for example can't we buy new bodies for locos, sell the chassis and body separately, all the add-ons and details separately.
I'm not a member of a club either. I understand why people would do, it's a bit like when folks used to just go sit in a local pub to meet and chat to others... that's rare now, most are called Tesco.
Personally I started in the hobby once I had a kid that was interested, then stumbled on your videos and mouldy raspberry and thought I could have a go.i didn't appreciate how expensive it was tbh. Have to support your view, it being all online is brilliant, we get to work on our own layouts, and see others work all without disturbing home life. However, one thing that you didn't raise that is worth a mention and debate is the stigma and view of others towards railway modelling as a subject matter, I've certainly experienced it with even friends and family. Why and where does this stem from?
Btw, Warley are simply saying that THEIR club is aging and they can't attract new modellers to run the event, which is fair enough, I'd not want to run something that big...would you!? 😂
I think this video is spot on. The big issue is that just like the way a country talks it's way in to a recession (because people stop spending money), if people keep talking about the hobby dying it will because of people putting into peoples minds.
Absolutely. My thinking is, even if every model railway company closed down tomorrow (which is unlikely!) we'd still have our existing layouts to enjoy and plenty of resources to build in pretty much any scale we like. Thanks for watching 😃
You point out that news stories often focus on the bad news. You built your small narrow gauge layout and I've got a small shelf layout above my desk where I can run a few Welsh narrow gauge trains. Who would have thought even 5 years ago that a major manufacturer would supply a whole range of 009 models so that anyone can build a convincing narrow gauge layout ( or that their efforts would be supplemented by companies like Peco/Kato with their own ready to run models). I feel that Bachmann's efforts have gone a little under the radar with all the noise about Hornby's investment in TT120 but I do feel it shows confidence in the hobby and is something to be celebrated even if 009 is not for you.
Excellent video. Graham Foulston said something similar. Your points come across really well and it's great to hear. I am glad I've channels like yours as it's a great way to learn and interact. Tim
I have been involved in model railways since I was six and I am now 68. I have bought from Hatton's and have no complaints but they are just one player and other outlets will pick up some of the custom. My biggest worry for the hobby is the prices and unnecessary duplication when there are products which could be improved or models which have not yet been modelled e.g. Standard 3mt tender and GN J6. If I am paying over £200 for a OO locomotive model then I expect it to work well, look right and bits dropping off before it runs is not acceptable. I will be honest I usually buy second hand but the prices have now crept up but I am not slow in making an offer and usually get a positive response. My favourite exhibition was the Southwold show but that closed a few years ago due the age of the members but I saw some cracking exhibition layouts in its time. I am still modelling.
The positive way to look at duplication is that we see the potential for high prices to come down while the manufacturers push to make a better model than their competitor. We saw this with the Manor Class recently which were both rather keenly priced.
Likewise I buy a fair amount of models, probably more than most, and honestly I think QC has improved drastically over the last few years. But if I ever do have a problem with a loco, 99.9% the retailer/manufacturer will sort it out. I've only had one instance where that didn't happen and I opted to fix the loco myself rather than get a refund. Thanks for watching 👍
There is a model Railroad show in Massachusetts, run by the Amherst Model Railway Club every year, it's the biggest show atleast in North America. It occupies 350,000 Square feet of floor space in 4 buildings of the Eastern States Exposition Grounds in Springfield, MA. It's only growing.
I work in a Hobby shop, model railroad products are one of our two biggest departments, and kids are a major part of our business.
If anything will kill the Hobby, it's manufacturers over pricing their models.
I don't know about your clubs, my boss keeps inviting me to join his club. It's an hour from me, and $180.00 a year. I could buy something for my Railroad or spend $180.00 a year to run on their Railroad provisionally until I get full membership.
There's a chance big companies might start crashing down due to how expensive and high the barrier for entry is for MODELS not toys, and even as a long time hobbies buying a loco can be tough stuff. But so many top quality smaller companies have come to the spotlight recently, I'll be sure to be buying from them in future
Maybe...maybe not. Honestly I think the level that Accurascale and Rapido are at is about the right size for high quality companies focused purely on the high end of the hobby. Hornby and Bachmann are exceptions because, in Bachmann's case it's owned by a parent company and in Hornby's case they are the parent company. Their business is in more than just creating trains for modellers. Thanks for watching 😃
The times are changing, simple as that. Like another commenter I'm a late 40-sonething just coming into the hobby. Life pressures mean its doubtful i could dedicate any meaningful time to a club even if I wanted to - I have no time for the rivet counter brigade that a few clubs I've encountered in the past seem to consist entirely of. If i can get all the inspiration/ learning / supplies I need online, then why not? (After all, how I found this channel was by punching 'how to build a model railway' into RUclips's search box) Where i think the biggest issue is, particularly in the current environment, is cost. I cant imagine the average casual or beginner modeller wants to start off with finely detailed rolling stock costing hundreds of pounds. The fact that you can buy a chassis on ebay, whack a 3D printed body on it and spend less than Hornby, charge for some coach / wagon sets should be the big cause for concern for retailers struggling to get feet through the door.
Part of the problem is the price point that has been created by the demands for super-detailed RTR items. If we go back 20 or so years the models were much more basic and there were articles in the likes of Railway Modeller magazine on how to detail them. Perhaps the manufacturers need to consider a few items in the range that go back to that principle. By all means, have them DCC ready, have the higher quality motors, i'm not suggesting we need to go back to the days of the X04 brush motor, but there needs to be an entry level component that is attainable to keep the hobby alive.
It's a catch 22 situation really since modellers want more detail which pushes the price up, but the price being high anyway warrants more detail to make it more justified for the customer.
I can't see manufacturers tooling up more simple models though as it would still be a huge outlay to make something that you would essentially be selling for less. The manufacturers are there to make money at the end of the day and if there's more profit on a highly detailed model, that's where they'll focus their efforts.
The only manufacturer really capable of this is Hornby who have a large back catalog of older toolings to pull from for their Railroad range. Even there we're seeing it's not a cheap exercise to re-run older models and the prices are still higher than what most would want. Perhaps their new replacement to the Playtrains range will fill this gap, but even so I think it'll then mostly appeal to kids rather than modellers on a budget. Thanks for watching 👍
Just let me say Hattons are closing because the owner wanted to take their equity out of the business! If they had the stomach for putting their business model right!
Warley has suffered from the NEC effect! Expensive to get in, expensive to park and an older organising committee. Move to a different venue and things would be better! GETS was very popular! Why? No parking fees and cost of entry is fair.
Do we have any hard evidence for that? Even if it is true, should they continue on with the business if they don't have any passion for it anymore. Surely that would be worse.
Warley is a strange beast because it's such a huge show in a huge venue but volunteer run. Most shows of a similar size would have an events team working year round on that alone. And GETS isn't immune either, after the most recent show people were complaining about the parking, the shuttle bus, the overcrowding. We railway modellers love a good moan don't we. Thanks for watching 👍
3d printing has opened up a whole new world of future projects. Just look at what Sam has achieved at Sam's trains with his experiments in 3d printing locomotives and rolling-stock!
I definitely agree but don't forget there is a huge amount of skill in designing for it. Sam is a good example of what can be achieved - take a look at his very first models compared to what he's producing now and they're worlds apart because he invested a lot of time into building those skills. Thanks for watching 😃
Problem is Sam has no idea what he's doing, I was sent one to print for someone, I had to refuse as my CAD/Mesh checker said it wasn't printable. So I declined. Best not to watch Sam in my opinion as he is very misleading.
It was his efforts that made me get a 3D printer. Had it 4days. My third print was a fleet of locos and wagons bodies in T scale. Took 42minutes and $0.44 of resin. Today I am designing gears and gearboxes in TT scale.
Yes Sam certainly know what he is doing and is getting some great results.
Yes Sam knows what he is doing and gets some great results too. I bought some of his 3D printed material models and they are great.
I may not have been in the hobby since I was a kid but getting back into it on N scale instead of HO in the US there hasn't been a slowdown of train sales I've seen.
I can say for N scale there's a whole lot more folks coming to the scale due to the size where you can have more trains and track along with the price being more affordable for how much you get.
Every scale has a fan and I'm happy to see the hobby becoming so big I see a good amount of new videos on TikTok actually.
The technology has also been a big factor in making trains amazing, seeing something like the Broadway Limited Big Boy making smoke with lights and sounds in a tiny package is something amazing even to those not in the hobby.
I don't think the hobby is anywhere near dying, it's transforming into a new era.
I work for a major online US model retailer and while we've been seeing a slow decline in customers, we've been shifting gears to get new eyes on the hobby. We've taken a great push onto social media and post short videos of new models running on layouts. The hobby isn't dying, we just need to keep moving with the times!
I think this is a great point, rather than just staying static the hobby does need to adapt and grow to reach new people - and as you've said we are starting to see that. At the same time I can't count the number of times I've seen older enthusiasts complain because a manufacturer posted an update to Facebook, despite the fact they can still see it. There does seem to be scepticism to anything new. Thanks for watching 🤩
100% agree regarding the younger generation of hobbyists and clubs.
Model Railway clubs feel very old school still with AGMs, commitee members, finances and the like. Something I noticed with other hobby clubs like Warhammer is there's none of this, just pay on the day/monthly and turn up on the night to play, alot less admin. Fees pay for hall hire and any extra on scenery for games.
Social media allows for this community aspect in a much more flexible format.
You're right. I hadn't considered that aspect. They are far too tied to an old fashioned corporate stucture. My son introduced me to DnD nights at the local games store. Just turn up and play. The only rules you follow are the ones in the game.
My son is now looking to get into model railways, and although he enjoys going to exhibitions has wouldn't dream of joining such an old fashioned organisation with such rigid structures.
I also know of a couple of model railway clubs where you need to be introduced by an existing member to even attend!
You are right TMRG, especially on the younger modellers. Not many grey hairs on you yet! The hobby is in a great shape and your mentions of Planet Industrials is an exemplar of the positive change taking place. A strong summary 👍👏and let’s remember there is nothing so certain as change.
Yes they are out there, just not in the traditional places that model railways have revolved around for the last 50 years or so. Thanks for watching 😃
Really good points here! The Warley announcement did feel to me like a bit a bit of a cop-out to avoid admitting that traditional clubs are not as common among us younger adults (though admittedly not unheard of); social media videos, groups, and pictures are rapidly growing and showcase that talent is still very much a feature of this hobby. Things change (for both good or ill), but this hobby has always proved adaptive. Truthfully I’d wager the collective anxiety is because we’re going through an inflection point. How things will look on the other side, who knows. I’ll still enjoy modelling.
Yeah I felt it was really odd of them to single out the next generation as not stepping up to the mark rather than just saying there's no-one who wants to take over the running of such a complex show. Thanks for watching 😃
There is a distinction to be made between "younger" and "young". To a group of people of retirement age or close to, younger could mean people in their 30s or 40s. And if that is the case, then I agree that there are lots of excellent modellers showcasing their skills.
But I do believe that there are fewer young people starting out. It used to be aspirational to want a train set, and a percentage of those people then got ever more seriously in to railway modelling.
That aspirational element now has shifted to wanting the latest games console, and those youngsters that do start out are often doing so because of family connections. But over the years, so those family connections reduce and so does the number of people coming in to the hobby.
So I think some of the fears are real, I just don't think they are as close as the latest round of scaremongering would have us believe. A key focus for manufacturers needs to be engaging the young again...maybe through pricing strategies, maybe by tie-ins with console games, linking with younger Social Media or TV personalities. No offence to Jules Holland, Eddie Izzard or Pete Waterman but they aren't likely to inspire many school kids.
Very true! I will say though that it's been interesting to see what Pete Waterman and the Railnuts have done by letting people take charge of the Making Tracks layouts - I can imagine lots of kids wanting a layout of their own after being let loose on a layout like that.
Similarly when I exhibited my own layout last year I was staggered by the amount of families at the show with the kids proudly telling me they'd started or wanted to start their own layout. I hear what you're saying but I don't think all is lost in that regard just yet - there is still hope. Thanks for watching 😃
You're right that exhibitions can make a difference. I went to Doncaster last year and was amazed that only one or two layouts seemed to be trying to entertain kids...hidden Easter Eggs, driving a train or even just choosing a train to run from a fiddle yard.
I appreciate they are expensive labours of love, so they don't want kids playing with them, but there are ways to entertain and interact.
I think part of the decline (not end) is self inflicted how do you get people into a hobby in the middle of a cost of living crisis, competing with video games, with train sets that cost what they do nowadays, which cost a few pounds per set to preduce as all the moulds are cast. They could make it £100 for the Hornby Flying Scotsman pack, £50 - £75 for the 0-4-0 train pack and still make a lot of profit. Yet they won't greed has overtaken them and som of the other manufacturers.
While it's true that model railways simply aren't as popular with most people as they were back in the 30s, I'm not sure bringing the prices down is the overall solution. It may help but an Xbox or Playstation isn't exactly cheap and yet people are still buying those.
At the end of the day the manufacturers still have to make money too and I think the idea that the sets cost very little to produce is a gross underestimation. I don't think it's greed that set the prices but a need to stay afloat, otherwise we'd see a lot more manufacturers cease to exist. That said, we've seen Hornby investigating production in India for it's budget range. We don't know whether that will actually happen or not but at least they're looking. Thanks for watching 😃
The whole video games thing is tired and indeed self inflicted, and seems mainly bemoaned by us, the generation of parents that are failing to limit our kids screen times and encourage them to engage in more constructive things or constructive uses of that screen time. If the kids are all into video games that's not the video game industries fault or a fault with the kids, it's kinda a fault in our parenting and handing our kids over to that interest... we after all play a huge role in shaping the people our kids become and the interests they get into.
@@Trainskitsetc what I'm referring to is funds, not a straight competition.
I recently joined my local model railway club and I think if it was like other model railway clubs I wouldn't have even considered it.
The club I joined always has atleast one layout in construction for younger modellers to have a go at (They are currently building two, a OO Gauge 60s BR layout and an EM Gauge model of the Jarrow T&W Metro station) and have 2 layouts for members to run their models on (1 DC and 1 DCC).
They do have a membership fee but its not that much anyways and its half price for under 16s
That sounds like a really good way of doing it and it allows junior members to get involved with the hobby without having the huge outlay of building their own layout and buying all their own models. Thanks for watching 😃
I think you are spot on about clubs. The younger generation really have no need of clubs. Social media is taking over. The one thing that social media cannot do, however, is put on exhibitions to spark people's interest. Clubs need to have an online presence and join together for exhibitions.
There are of course the virtual exhibitions that have taken place in recent years - though I agree there is no substitute for seeing layouts in person and getting to interact with people. For me that's where the clubs should focus their efforts. Thanks for watching 😃
I am an older enthusiast, more interested in toy end. So DCC and ultra detailed models are not my thing. So I tend to collect the toys of my youth. Basically from fifty years ago. So the price point for me is more influenced by others with similar tastes chasing the stuff on eBay. However I do think Hornby should have segmented their market with a return to the railroad range, maybe branded Triang. As for retailers. There have been loads that were family ran that decided to exit when retirement beckoned.
Anyway I think there is such a range in tastes, that the hobby will further evolve into more niches.
I do agree that Hornby need to figure out their budget range. The whole Railroad and Railroad Plus thing is a bit of a mess, along with other older models still being sold in the main range but at modern day prices.
Thanks for watching 😃
Thanks for cheering up. That calms some of us a lot!
That's what I'm here for. Remember, it's just toy trains. It's a hobby and it's meant to be fun so there's no point getting all wound up about it. Thanks for watching 😃
I think you are right on both accounts, One of the reasons I haven't joined a club is I work most nights (local club meets on Wednesdays only) also what they model is of little interest (time period) to me, also there is the time limit if you are working! There are plenty of younger modelers out there most on RUclips 😃, retailers come and go Hattons is just one of them, but I do hope someone takes on and produce some off their products. Warley was not a cheap day out, with ticket, parking, cost of food in the hall means that £60 is spent before you purchase a loco, wagon. As for larger shows I now attend the Stafford Show (club run) a far cheaper show and sorry to say far better than the Warley Show.
You’re so right the hobby is as strong as ever I’m 62 and returning to the hobby after 45 ( I guess cars and girls were a bit more interesting lol).but now I’m back and I’m using you tube to document what I’m doing plus I also like making videos so I can combine my two hobbies together l don’t think it’s the end of the hobby it’s just RUclipsrs using the scare tactic to get views.. Graham from
Grandads little railway
Well said, they hobby's not dying but does need to change tact.
Also if another manufacturer does take on Hattons' toolings I do hope to see the Genesis coaches in Southern olive green again as I missed out on the Hattons run.
In some ways I think that's more of a possibility if the toolings do go somewhere else. Hattons were pretty clear that they weren't going to make a habit of doing re-runs but another company might want a more secure option of re-doing a livery that sold out than doing something new and untested. Thanks for watching 😃
Excellent; just the positive message we need. I've heard doomsayers predicting the death of the hobby for as long as I can remember, certainly since I got started with model railways in childhood in the 1980s. This seems a particular quirk of railway modelling - I can't think of any other hobbies whose participants have continually bemoaned its demise for decades. Frankly it's a little bizarre when you think about it.
Like you, I had been away from the hobby for a while until recently, and like you it was excitement at seeing what (mostly) younger content creators were doing that drew me back in. I really have to agree that there are plenty of younger people interested, but it's no surprise that many older model railway club members aren't aware of them as the thriving communities aren't meeting in their local church hall.
I also think it's grossly unfair to label younger generations as lazy or apathetic simply because older people don't see them volunteering in the same way as them - I see a lot of younger people selflessly giving up their time to help others in all sorts of ways, and they have far greater reach to be able to make a difference to the lives of others in less fortunate situations. Of course I'm talking in wider terms than just model railways.
PS nice to see Pi's Victory out on the layout again - I do love those models.
'End of the hobby' is an over the top reaction. Ultimately people are demanding more and more of model makers - in terms of motors, details sound etc - but then baulk at the price. Manufacturers aren't getting rich with these prices, hornby haven't made money since Moses were a lad
Exactly, that was the whole point of this video. Even if every manufacturer packed up for good tomorrow, the hobby would still continue on in my opinion. I mean there are people still modelling in TT3 despite it not being commercially available for decades... the likes of 00 gauge would take a lot longer to disappear completely. Thanks for watching 😃
The statement: "The hobby is dying" is a view that has been around as long as the hobby has been mainstream - I have read back-issues of magazines that were published before I was born (1986) and even back then there were concerns.
I think we should keep up with innovations in the hobby and I think we need models aimed at beginners (such as the Railroad range of Hornby or Hobby range if Piko).
Perhaps we could have average models in general and the manufacturers could offer super-detailing kits to upgrade the rolling stock/locos to museum quality. Sometimes I think they can't win, people want more detail but don't want to pay the price for that.
I think that 3D printing and things like DCC-EX add a great aspect to the hobby and this is something that manufacturers must take into account. Games Workshop (who do the Warhammer models) recently rereleased their fantasy brand under a new name this year and they are still using ancient figures. People are saying they will rather use 3D printed proxy models from 3rd parties.
To go to your Warley comment, we had a huge thing we called "The Model Railway Convention" every two years here in South Africa where we had a large exhibition and hobby craft workshops (like making trees) in a different provinces, we also visited the local (for the province) layouts. Since even before the pandemic, the convention fizzled out and there were less attendees.
I think that current world events are also making things more challenging.
I agree with you in the whole - lets keep chugging on and the best way to get new people involved is to get your kids/family interested and understand that they may not enjoy or like what you do, give them the freedom to do as they wish.
As you say, another phenomenon that never previously existed is RUclips railway modelling. Surely this is a positive development? It helped me back into the hobby.
Yes and not just RUclips but Instagram and Facebook both have very healthy communities too of people sharing and communicating with each other. Thanks for watching 😃
Hornby did some important development in electronic equipment for model railroading, e.g. the bluetooth range of decoders and central or control units. Even if they might have taken advantage from the experience of an OEM developer it always limits the development of new models a bit. In Germany so far even no standard setting manufacturer like Lenz, ESU or Uhlenbrock came over with the idea to communicate with trains "simply" over Bluetooth or another wireless standard like e.g. Zigbee, neither did Digitrax. But the real railway prototypes it, just communicating by GSM-R instead of Bluetooth, Zigbee or WiFi if higher levels of ETCS are implemented.
Yes and not forgetting that when DCC was still relatively new Hornby introduced their Select/Elite systems which got a lot of people intro digital control. A lot of people like to bash Hornby but I don't think they get nearly enough credit for all the innovations that they've brought to the table over the years. Thanks for watching 😃
Spot on commentary …. …. 👍
A blip, a retailer , not a manufacturer …
1 show cancelled, 1 new one ,,
More choice than I can ever remember …
I don’t see a crisis, I see a flourishing hobby …
Definitely, if we'd know we would have all these manufacturers recreating obscure prototypes and pre-grouping models 10-15 years ago we'd have all been jumping for joy! Besides, nothing that has happened stops us from playing trains day to day. Thanks for watching 😃
I have to agree, the hobby is in an overall good place.
I will miss Hattons though. I live in the USA and have a massive collection of British locos and stock, most of which were purchased either new or used from Hattons. Their international service was unparalleled.
Yes I suspect it's international customers like yourself who will suffer most from this in reality. We'll have to see if another retailer steps up but if no-one does I suspect it may give us an idea of where things went wrong for Hattons. Thanks for watching 😃
I couldn't agree more with what you say. Just look at your subscriber level! And there are others out there with much larger subscriber levels. RM Web is another example. Hornby are in a period of consolidation. Some of their recent models took 4 or 5 years to come to market and came in for criticism for not being up to date. So they need to step back a bit and get their production schedules back on track (pun not intended!). It's a shame to see Hattons go but that's the way of things. The retail business can be cutthroat. We lost a lot of retailers over the years but others have come along and hopefully they will continue. I'm of an age to remember Kings Cross Models that went in the late '80s. I will miss Hattons, though, for their orignal ideas, such as the locker. Warley will be missed as well, but I can undertand the reasons why. Many of the organisers are now into their '70s and '80s and need to step back from it. The club itself is doing well but we are all limited for time these days and i can see why there was a lack of volunteers to carry on the exhibition. A lot of local clubs have also stopped their exhibitions, mainly due to the increasing cost of putting them on.
Exactly, Hornby take criticism for being so behind on their new models, so they take a quiet year to catch up and get criticised for not announcing enough. Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't in my opinion.
Warley really was insane when you think about the size of that show and the fact that it was all being done by part time volunteers. Most events of that size at the NEC would have an events team working year round on it. I can definitely see why no-one wants to take over. We railway modellers aren't exactly the forgiving type and even if the tiniest thing went wrong or was changed people would have a field day. Just look at the furore that happened at GETS last year because one shuttle bus broke down 😅 Thanks for watching 👍
Hornby released their trading statement last week with their web sales up 30 percent and they were very pleased with their Black Friday sale. So considering Hattons business model for sixty years was taking Hornby stock at trade prices or surplus stock at a large discount, that business model is officially dead. Hornby, Bachmann, Rapido, Accurascale etc. can now do everything Hattons did so why offer Hattons models at trade prices, with quantity discounts and stock on payment terms just so Hattons can undercut them? Daft. There will be plenty of models to buy online, just the future is buy direct from the brand website.
Yes positive news for Hornby there and even with a limited announcement this year, they have lots of new products still to arrive over the next few months which, fingers crossed, should keep that positive trend going.
I think the way Accurascale is doing things is really the biggest threat to retailers. It's the same price on their website as anywhere else so that's the biggest incentive gone already. Plus you get a discount for ordering multiples (great for rolling stock) and you can earn reward points to spend on future models with them. Couple that with their great customer support and they seem to be onto a real winner there. Thanks for watching 😃
Right at so many levels, I would agree railway modelling is actually growing, just not in the traditional sense.
On line media, affordable 3D printing, laser cutting, Templot 3D trackwork, along with numerous software and hardware developments, not to mention, as you pointed out, the increasing number of new manufacturers.
When modellers, clubs, and media talk about the “end of hobby” they are referencing their experiences, and their values, not actual current trends; where it is now very much an adult undertaking, but one that looks to social media and to a lessor extent on line forums for motivation and engagement, watching, listening and learning from others prior to committing to expenditure.
Hatton’s closure is, for us overseas modellers, is a real blow, they had excellent customer service, huge range and a fantastic international postage system to Australia.
I agree with your reasoning on Hatton’s and Hornby, but both have their reasons for the decisions made.
No one can understate the huge investment Hornby has delivered in recent years, HM7000 technology and Turbomotive tooling being game changers
I for one am excited for the future of railway modelling.
Agreed, in some ways we've never had it so good with all the options we now have in the hobby.
I definitely think that the closure of Hattons will affect international modellers like yourself more, but I do wonder if that's partly what got them into a tricky situation in the first place.
And yes, Hornby really don't get the credit they deserve in my opinion. If say Accurascale had made those products everyone would be jumping for joy! Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy absolutely agree
thank you, I have been in a deep spiral of depression there were many things going wrong and ending in my life and when I got the message of Hatton's it pushed me over the edge making me think the hobby maybe done for, but you have given me inspiration and hope so again thankyou.
Glad I was able to help, even if only in a small way. We have to remember at the end of the day that, this is a hobby. We basically playing with toy trains and it's meant to be fun. I think we forget that sometimes so it's worth reminding yourself of that every once in a while. Thanks for watching 😃
So here's my views: (get ready)
First off, news articles can go do one under a bridge as far as I'm concerned. They often wind a story up to the max, where no one involved took it to in the first place.
Second: I think this has absolutely nothing to do with the range of trains, competing quality, Hornby giving up Thomas, ect. I think this is culture, pure and simple. Get this right, everything else will follow.
Third: If the hobby dies, so be it. Like, seriously, look how good it's been! Especially in the past 10 years! We're not going to run out of trains in our collection, and we will figure out new ways to make stuff. Sure it would be sad if one day, there were no companies left making railway stuff, but let's be honest, what could we do now to help, that couldn't be done 15 years ago when it really mattered? It's no good sewing the seeds when the rain has just passed. The time for the hobby to change has passed. Something else needs to happen.
Forth: Many years ago (16-ish years) I was part of a model railway club, and one of the problems even I saw back then, was that they weren't growing with the world. I was into filming and RUclips back then too, and was saying how good it would be for us and others, young and old, if we could share our club online with what we do here. In the few years I was there, not once did they ever want me to do this, and then I realized they don't even advertise the club, whilst complaining that no one is joining. In the few years I was there, 3, maybe 4 people joined. WTF?! How does anyone expect to keep something alive if the heritage of the hobby aren't even trying themselves? What kind of message does that send? I left soon after.
In summary: You called this a blip on the hobby. I think you are wrong. To me, this is more like (or needs to be more like) a handing over of the torch. The hobby need to be handed over to the next generation to keep things going, in the new world that's coming our way. From my experience, the younger gens seam more willing to change with the times. The older gens are not. Now, to be monumentally fair to the older gens, there are still a lot of memories around from their time, where they were just happy that they, or their parents, didn't get blown up. Whereas us younger lot, have to deal with the price of some of these model trains. So let's just bare that in mind.
The hobby will change. It will be a learning curve. It will be uncertain. But it can be done. Like you say, I also don't claim to have the answers, but I'm more than willing to sit down with others to help figure this out. The local model club is no longer that big shed just outside town. It's in your room, your loft, your mates house. You just need an internet connection.
The way I see it, there is only one model railway club now, we just need to figure out a name for it. I'm thinking something like..... One World Model Railway Club. ;-)
Anyway, just my thoughts on this. :-)
I definitely agree with your 3rd point. Look at the amount of people still modelling in TT3 despite the fact it's not been commercially available for decades... 00 gauge would take a lot longer to die out. Thanks for watching 😃
Spot on analysis here. Well done for not jumping on the bandwagon. Totally agree that we’ve never had it so good. Laser cuts, 3d printing, RUclips, forums. So much now possible that wasn’t before.
Thank you, yes there are so many options available to us now that even a decade ago would have been unthinkable. Thanks for watching 😃
Hi there, I'm from France - I would like to share your optimism but unfortunately, if I indeed don't think the hobby is dead, it's without any doubt in critical condition. I am a train and model kit hobbyist, and while I lived in Paris, from the more than 30 shops I knew thirty years ago I only know less than half a dozen in actual times. In Rouen where I live since ten years, I saw a reduction from three shops to... Zero. People and shops moved on to the net? Well, The enormous annual Salon de la Maquette in Paris that began 40 years ago, definitely closed its doors a dozen years ago. TrainsMania that was a big model railway convention that was held in Lille for several years, is no more since last year. I went a few weeks ago to a modest but awesome model railway convention I knew for at least a decade, held in the suburbs of Paris, and it was only the shadow of what it was a couple years ago. Trains and model kits that still thrived on supermarket shelves at the beginnings of Year 2000, are now reduced to a ridiculously small corner, when they are not just completely absent, while other toys sections are still florishing.
Being British I obviously can't speak for the situation in France - or any other country for that matter, but here in the UK the hobby is just fine in my opinion. Yes shops/retailers close and exhibitions may not continue but I fail to see how this stops us as individuals engaging in the hobby we love. Why does that stop us building a layout and running trains? Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy You are certainly right, the loss of so many shops and exhibitions did not affect my own engagement, but it certainly depresses me. Besides, a good part of what makes this hobby attractive to me is the direct interaction with other modelists, I certainly don't have to tell you how wandering in a shop or a convention and talking with others is essential in such activities. We are gradually losing that, and I believe this is an important factor, along with the economics, of its decline.
Please continue to be awesome and entertain this small world.
I certainly agree that the closure of a store ( however important) and a major exhibition ceasing does not mean the death of the hobby. There are issues to consider however. You point out that younger modellers perhaps don't join clubs but use social media much more. I suppose an interesting and potentially important point is how they get there. If someone is randomly YT surfing, sees a model railway video and thinks "I've never thought of that, it looks fun" then that is good. If however, the person is inspired to look for a YT video because they had a Hornby trainset for Xmas one year, played with it for a few years and then grew out of it but are now interested to see how the hobby has developed, then that might mean that the future of the hobby is dependant on what 5 to 10 year olds are asking for Xmas in 2024. In my view the future of the hobby is more dependent on the attitude of 20 to 30 year old parents and relatively young children than it is on those currently investing in the hobby.
If todays parents never had a train set and if a child never sees a trainset in a local toy shop or see adverts for trainsets on TV in the run up to Xmas can we realistically expect them to search YT in 10 or 15 years time for modelling inspiration? I strongly believe that lifestyle patterns are set in childhood and that it is only in 10 or 20 years time that we will know whether the hobby is dying, surviving or thriving.
Another point about current modellers -- do we know whether an interest in model railways spreads across all demographics? I would suggest that hobbies that are primarily dependent on white, middle class, males will struggle for long term survival. I have no idea if that is the case with our hobby but if that is how clubs are perceived or how the hobby in general is perceived then we ought to think that that is a potential barrier to the long term survival of the hobby
That's a great video. You hit the nail on the head. The hobby is changing. The clubs are getting older and the younger generation are going in a different direction. It's a strong hobby and will remain so. Well done.
Definitely! I'd suggest it's not just the younger generation either - this channel gets plenty of views from those in all age groups which suggests a strong expansion into the digital world with all modellers. Thanks for watching 😃
The hobby will survive and grow, if the current hobbyists want it to. If you are expecting everyone else to do the heavy lifting it may die but don't moan if it does! If you want the model railway to be the vibrant community you imagine, what are you doing to make it so?
Real world example in rugby. My local club had a vibrant junior section, run by volunteers who were happy to muck in, sort out match dinners, run the shop, do protective governance, run finances and more importantly give up their time, weekdays and weekends to coach. I got qualified as a coach, cooked matchday food, run stalls, done maintenance, made signs, done corporate fundraising etc. because it was my club and I wanted it to be successful. Now is that the old guard have moved on (Warley), their children have gone to university or senior rugby. We now have too many adults seeing the club on a Sunday as a pound per hour creche. We can support parents to coach and run teams and that was how I got involved post playing. It was how my dad got involved, he never played. But post Covid that seems to have changed. My lads are now at university, so why am I providing that service to others? Am I part of the problem even though they are not my children? Or do people today just want no work solutions?
If you don't want your passion to die, what are you doing about it? If you leave it to others, don't moan about the outcome. And yes, anyone can make a difference.
As a young modeller myself, I totally agree with all the points you made about them. Brilliant and very informative video, certainly gave me a new perspective on a fair few things. 👍
Glad to hear it. I would never want to speak on behalf of all younger modellers but I do feel like there are more around than ever. With social media too, it's a lot easier to find other likeminded people of the same age where a decade or two ago the other modellers you know would most likely consist of whoever was at your local club. Thanks for watching 😃
To be fair newspapers want shock and awe - "It's the end of the world" sells better than "Something is evolving"
A quiet year for announcements would be nice. We all need to catch up - We have items on back-order items stretching back 7 years...
Absolutely, that was my whole point regarding how the mainstream media has looked at the issue. Thanks for watching 😃
A very level-headed take on the whole situation
I am sorry to say that I have never bought anythink from Hatton in the last sixty years of a model railways hobby, I allways try to get any items from a shop or ebay. I was also a member of the Warley model club for the last 20 years, but now I am 76 the time has come to give up helping at the exhibition, the problem is that every person in the club has the same problem.
And that's fine, it's your hobby after all. Some people much prefer seeing items in person or simply just the experience of going into a shop. You shouldn't have how you enjoy your hobby dictated by other people. Similarly with not wanting help at the exhibition anymore, it's completely understandable. Again, it's a hobby, we're allowed to bow out gracefully if that's what we want. Thanks for watching 😃
Completely agree mate. The hobby is thriving and there are plenty of shows coming up in 2024, we're booked into 12 already :)
That's great to hear! Yeah it's a shame to loose Warley but there are plenty of other shows to fill the gap. Thanks for watching 😃
One of the bad thing about the hobby is how much the price goes up, not only because new and more precise and delicate models, often offered as a limited run. In many cases, the production has moved in to countries with cheaper production costs and many cases sloppycontrol on the finish. With modern technolgy, like DCC things have become more complicated andsteep price tags. This makes people think twice before ordering stuff..
Hattons was the company that set the standard on many things, customer service being one, prompt deliveries, despite after Brexit some problems withthe customs here in EU. Their website was always updated, showing theitems that was truely stocked, not just stuff that was offered some years ago and a they lack staff to understand or update their web site, it remains as it was back in 2013 or so.
The rise on the price tags are alarming, I have seen some "new" models with new retailer prices increased with 30 or som per cent, with the only update is a new paint scheme and road number.
The hobby isn't dead. Its just hard to get started. Its also getting too expensive, new models are out of my price range and most of my collection was bought as spares or repairs 20 years ago and the prices have gone up. Even the price of wood is stalling my progression. The issue I've had is space, not lack of it but what it was needed for. Life just gets in the way.
I'd disagree, there's plenty of ways to get started even on a budget. All model railways are built around the constraints we have, whether it's time, space, money, or even imagination. If the price of wood is stopping you, check out Ikea and get one of their Lack shelves for £13 - ready made baseboard for a nice little shunting layout right there that can be attached to wall easily and kept out of the way. Thanks for watching 😃
Some excellent points made (no pun intended). I have recently started into the huge world of modelling, this comes directly from people like yourself and also Chadwick who I also follow. You guys are the inspiration that younger generation will be interested in through your informative videos and non stop enthusiasm. Keep it going please. Cheers TMRG. 👍
That's great to hear and I do think what is coming with more social media centred modelling, is a sense of enthusiasm that I haven't really seen in hobby before. It's the core principle that this entire channel is based on. Thanks for watching 😃
Excellent review of the hobby. I see it growing and evolving, and I am very happy with, for example, Dapol getting into O gauge. What great products they have in O which was simply unaffordable a decade ago. I am disappointed that Hattons has gone. As an international customer from Florida, the shipping, prices and speed of delivery from DHL was outstanding.
Absolutely, a decade ago having multiple manufacturers supporting O gauge in this way seemed to be a pipe dream... and it's not just O gauge, 009 now has a healthy RTR range and even TT:120 is making a comeback. If anything, as the hobby becomes more niche and less about pleasing the general train set market, we get more specialised products as a result.
I do think it is overseas customers like yourself who will suffer most from the closure of Hattons. Hopefully one of the other retailers will step up to the mark... but if they don't, perhaps that's a sign of where Hattons overstretched themselves. Thanks for watching 😃
Check out the 16mm society. Yes it's a larger scale but it's thriving with a huge show every year. It doesn't get the publicity that the smaller scales get.
A very factual and optimistic outlook on the state of the hobby 👌. I hope the hobby stays strong in the UK as I'm just starting out in my early 30s. There are plenty of people under 40 wanting to return to the hobby or start out - the cost of housing and buying a place with enough space for a railway is quite a challenge!
Great to hear you're jut getting started! Yes there are challenges but different constraints have always been a part of the hobby and can help dictate our layouts. If space is an issue I'd check out the Inglenook shunting puzzle - a nice small little layout that only requires one loco and a few wagons for hours of fun. Thanks for watching 😃
It’s quite sad, but I don’t believe this hobby will die, it’s been running since the 40s and is still here, I completely agree with you with how Hornby spoiled us, thanks for the video!
You talk a lot of good sense here. I returned to the hobby 20 years ago at 40. My issue with 'clubs' is that they are old fashioned and a bit up themselves, being primarily intersted in commitees, insurance and tea. The modern approach you discuss is obviously going to be the saviour of the hobby.
Yes I suspect you're not alone in your feeling with clubs and the more online and social aspect of modelling has really taken off in recent years. I don't think the clubs will die out all together but they'll evolve over time into something different. Thanks for watching 😃
It is worth noting that the MRC (Model Railway Club), which is the oldest model railway club in the world runs a special Saturday club for young railway enthusiasts. Also if you look at those that went to see Making Tracks III - there were plenty of people going to see it of all ages including young children.
Yes two very good points. I think what Pete Waterman and the Railnuts group have been doing with Making Tracks by letting people get involved in the running is exactly the right approach to take. Thanks for watching 😃
Probably the most rounded and sensible pieces around this subject I have seen. I returned to the hobby as a result of Hornby getting into TT:120, many others have too and many new modellers. The challenge for the hobby is to continue to present a welcoming and positive face and stop the snidey back biting rubbish. I like playing trains and making stuff, if you do too then great 👍
Absolutely, all the hysteria about these developments just seemed a bit silly and over the top. It's just toy trains after all, while it's a big business for some, of the majority of us it's a bit of fun. Thanks for watching 😃
model on yea just on another point I recently brought a Hornby po (BR) class 08 as I wanted a small shunter just wondering what is the best dcc decoder for it cheers for any advice
Hi Alan, I tend to use Zimo decoders personally so for the Class 08 I imagine it would probably be an 8 Pin decoder. If you wanted sound you could also check out the HM7000 TXS decoders from Hornby, I believe they have an 08 profile or one coming very soon. Hope that helps and thanks for watching 🤩
Great comments. I do think that RUclips is a big bonus for the hobby. You are correct in saying that there has been a lot of improvements over the last few years ie look at all the sound options! Keep up the good work.
I certainly think so... but then I may be biased! 😅 Seriously though, it's great to see the hobby starting to embrace social media and new technology. While there will always be a place for analog trains whizzing round a train set style layout, the change the hobby is going through on this front is truly exciting for those that are willing to explore it. Thanks for watching 👍
I have not engaged in model railway construction for around twenty years, though I still have an interest and may well start up again, I still have most of my rolling stock and plenty of unbuilt kits etc. I was very sorry to hear about Hattons, as I used to order from them regularly and found them to be very nice people to deal with.
I think there will always be an interest in model railways, as is the case with all creative hobbies. And of of course their are some who just like playing with model railways because it helps them unwind and relax, and why not?
Absolutely, while the closure of Hattons is sad and I feel for all the staff, realistically it doesn't stop us from playing trains. Even those in the process of building layouts can still get supplies from elsewhere. Thanks for watching 😃
As a US customer , I did order from Hatton's, frankly more from Gaugemaster. The hobby is just changing and there are many new manufactures of structures and accessories.
Firstly great video. Secondly I agree with your comments on how people now interact. I enjoy learning about the hobby through RUclips channels and engaging with the livestreams. At some point I'll share my layout with others too. As you and many others have said the hobby IS alive and well, just changing from the old way we used to do things.
Yes it's certainly changed the way a lot of us learn new modelling skills. I couldn't imagine going to an exhibition and spending half the day watching someone give a demonstration and that being my only opportunity to learn new things. This is really where RUclips comes in handy as it's so easy to share and access these new ideas. Thanks for watching 😃
Even the point about younger modellers not joining clubs is one I disagree with, for example Bournville club is made about halfway of 15-30 year olds
There will always be exceptions to the rule. On a similar note, I volunteer at a heritage railway - a pastime also mostly dominated by older gentleman. Yet at the railway where I volunteer many of the active members including those in charge at all levels are in their 20s & 30s... that's certainly not the norm at every heritage railway but it shows it can happen. Thanks for watching 😃
As an OS customer, 90% of my purchases were from Hattons, due to their TRUNK option and the incredible postage deal they had with DHL. Buying from the other major competing outlets is not feasible due to the postage costs. Ebay falls into the same category because of their hideously expensive in house international postage. Hopefully Rails, Kernow, Footplate etc will learn from Hattons expertise and become a successful international retailer. Best wishes to all the staff at Hattons - Well Done , to the end.
I think one of two things will happen... either another retailer will step up to the mark, or none will because it's too difficult/expensive to make it worthwhile in the long term. If the later is the case then we may have an idea what contributed to Hattons current situation. Thanks for watching 😃
👏🏼👏🏼 well said, the hobby only dies when those who love it stop, there will always be a love for model railways. It’s just the times have changed and so has the way we celebrate it.
Absolutely! The positive to take from all the "negative talk" flying about is that if enough people that deeply about the hobby still then there's still a market to cater for. It's when these things happen and people stop caring that we need to worry. Thanks for watching 😃
I bought a lot of stuff from Hattons . They repeatedly sent me rubbish . Yes some of it was 2nd hand , but nothing was ever checked or serviced and reguarly arrived with major missing parts or broken . Their aftersales was terrible , they didnt care at all in the last 2 years so i stopped buying from them and cancelled all my pre orders due to it .
Same here I bought a used Standard Class 4 75006. Yes it was mainline but said recently tested and fine. It arrived to my surprise with broken valve gear and a snapper slide bar.
@@Northerner_Transport_Hub such a shame mate . One of my purchases was Sir Nigel Gresely , i model in O gauge so nothing is cheap lol . Yes , was listed as tested etc , but when i got it i found it wouldnt even move under its own power . Everything was completely locked up with cat hair (haha) (plus missing parts) , i had to strip it down myself. The final nail in the coffin was buying a rail coach , the brass bearings for an axle were missing entirely and Hattons told me to go to Dapol to buy them ! (nla, i had to turn new ones up myself on my lathe).
@@Island_Times sounds like a right pain in the arse mate, ima sub to you
I do suspect that as a result of them getting bigger and bigger a certain amount of sloppiness crept in. When you become a business of that size it's harder to care about each of your individual customers when you're trying to get orders out the doors as quickly as possible. That in turn leads to faithful customers leaving and eventually the situation we're in now. It's sad but perhaps a warning to the other major retailers too. Thanks for watching 😃
Best recent points on this subject…. I am newly retired, have modelled since the 1990s, but have never once considered joining a club. I really imagine lots of pedantic people going on about Great Western railway and how many rivets there were in this particular tender! The internet will drive the Hobby forward not the clubs or exhibitions. Hattons were great and I feel very sorry for the staff. My last order from them arrived successfully in indonesia without any problem in a few days. Strong international presence will be missed. But my impression was they were trying to be all things to all people and thus not making enough return on their cost base. I bet the business got too complex and they are correctly pulling the plug with honour intact. The tooling will survive as it always does…..
Speaking as a model train enthusiast living outside the UK. We would not have noticed the "death of model railroading" if it were not for specifically British RUclips channels all referring to the closing of Hattons. Years ago a whole bunch of the continental European brands went bust and were bought up, the hobby marches on.
This is also a very good point that the hobby is much bigger than just the UK too. Yes British railway modelling might have it's centre here but the entire hobby isn't riding on one retailer or one show in one specific country. Thanks for watching 😃
This is a great video and a lovely reminder of what the future holds, I’m not ‘young’ but I guess by Warley standards I might be and recently got back into things and between yourself and Chadwick you’ve got me modelling again, so keep up the good work
That's great to hear Luke! This is what it's all about, just spending some time enjoying the hobby. Thanks for watching 😃
I wouldn’t say the hobby is over, not yet at least. We may have lost a few things, but there are still many shops, still many manufacturers, and still many conventions. I went to one last weekend and there were a lot of people, showing the hobby still has a lot of interest.
Absolutely, like I said in the video it's only one show and one retailer. Others will fill the gap and honestly most exhibitions seem to be busier than ever. Thanks for watching 😃
You have a lovely selection of locomotives. Although I only have around ten locomotives in my collection, I very much enjoy seeing different locomotives and trains. Belonging to my local model railway club, I see quite a lot of different locomotives on a much larger layout than mine.
This is one of the advantages of a club and one I'm surprised they don't advertise a lot more. Bigger layouts and more variety of stock for those that don't have tons of space for layouts and locos. Thanks for watching 😃
Iam 22 and i think the hobby is a bit expensive but not dying its changing with new generation think thats the times we are in
Great video keep it up
And I don't think it will ever stop changing. Otherwise we'd all still be playing with clockwork tinplate trains. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy agree with that just be more involved with the young people and make prices a bit more cost effective
To be completely honest, the exact opposite is happening. The hobby is growing bigger and bigger. I know one day I would like to have some little model railway or a big one, and I'm young. Some might say a bit too young to use things like a box cutter knife, but I don't care. You live and learn. Learning earlier on in life is always better.
I mean, the entire point of the video was to point that out. Similarly, I think clubs could definitely entice new younger members by engaging with them and teaching essential skills, rather than chastising them for not know the basics. Thanks for watching 👍
I have said before, "Is it us that is asking for more and more detail or is it the manufacturers competing against each other thus pushing and pushing the prices up and up, before long we will see the £1000 OO scale Locomotive. It is thanks to the retailers leading up to Christmas offering Locomotives at a 50% discount, that I was able to buy two Locomotives. The first time in ten years. Martin. (Thailand)
There's definitely been a push in recent years from enthusiasts for more detail and more accuracy in the models released. If that wasn't the case then the new entrants to the market wouldn't be focusing on highly detailed models and would make a budget range instead - but so far none have gone that route.
If anything competition between manufacturers has the potential to bring prices down as we saw with the Manors from both Dapol and Accurascale which were both very keenly priced. Thanks for watching 😃