hello old sailor here i wanted to say thank you for this video i just bought the 110 and started just getting into shooting and found i made all the same mistakes and still learning lol but that being said thank you again it helped what i was doing wrong lol take care
Hey Cordel, I appreciate you leaving a comment. My goal is definitely trying to help, usually by learning from my mistakes. Glad it was able to reach you.
It's interesting. I have some rifles that like to be shot clean and some that shoot better with some copper fouling. I had a Tikka CTR that would average under 0.5 MOA for 5-shot groups open up to like 0.8 MOA. Sure enough, there was an obscene amount of copper fouling in the barrel. Eliminating that brought it right back to normal.
Its all over the place . Depending on ammo , and other things. But never really under 1.5 to 2.0 moa groups. Looked at barrel with borescope. Terrible chatter/reamer marks. Looked at two other savages at cabelas, precision had extra metal jutting from side of rifling and a chunk missing from rifling land…. Elite had uneven rifling , looked like a 5 year old tried to draw a straight line and failed…. Anyway, savage has problems imo, at this point. Changing mine to a criterion.
I certainly appreciate your effort. What most people don’t realize is that the rifle is inherently accurate to a certain level. Everything else subtract from that accuracy. This would be the choice of caliber, the choice of ammo, all of the accessories we put on the gun, and our skills as a shooter. You picked a pretty decent gun, however, right off the bat you picked it in a caliber which is not inherently the most accurate. 308 is very much an old-school caliber where the Sammy specifications are all over the map as it record to quality ammo. This is going to be very different from a modern caliber such a 65 Creedmoor where you can pretty much take any factory 65 Creedmoor ammo and it will shoot well because the published specifications have much finer tolerances. Secondly, when you are shooting, you have a suppressor, have you accounted for how the suppressor is mounted, what it does per point of impact and point of impact shift, and what it does for barrel harmonics. Second, you have a pretty nice rifle, but I believe you’re using a Cabela’s scope, not exactly an amazing scope. we don’t know anything about the rings. You might ask is are you 100% sure that the scope and radical are not shifting on you in between shots. And then finally is your position as a shooter. Sorry for the spelling errors as I am using speech to text.
Hey Slav, I appreciate the comments. These were the first rifles I bought when I took on the hobby. Coming from the military all I know are 5.56 and 7.62. I had an AR10 and wanted to keep ammo uniformity. This was before I was watching a lot of RUclips, so yes I probably would have started with 6.5 Creedmoor if I had known better. Good call. Hopefully when I start working hand loads though that will take the slack out of SAMI variances. I try to always shoot suppresed so zero and DOPE get built around the impact shift for the suppressor. Granted with the quick connect I realize that it does not perfectly realign each time it is installed. I am aware of how harmonics work, but have not mitigated yet. Hand loads will help account for sure. Eric Cortina may be able to convince me to install and test out an EC Tuner someday. As for the optic, yes its an inexpensive optic. I don't mean this in a hostile way, please don't misunderstand. You can outshoot me all day long with our current skill sets today. I don't think that swapping out the inexpensive scope for a NightForce or Schmidt and Bender, or Leupold will account for our difference in skill. I think that people starting out who don't have a ton of money to blow should try a few budget options, especially as they learn and grow. I know the theory out there that it's better to have a $1,000 optic over a $500 rifle than a $500 optic over a $1,000 rifle, or to put it another way, the optic should be the most expensive part of the build. That being said, at my growing skill level, I enjoy trying out options, especially with the ability to then let others know whether it may be a good option for them or not, junk or worth the money. That being said, through the testing I've done with the scope I have not noticed a shift in the reticle, and it has not moved in the Warne rings, still horizontally level and has not shifted forward in the rings. You are correct that there is better quality equipment out there, and someday my goal will be to outshoot the rifle and need upgraded equipment. For today though, the rifle sadly wins as more accurate than I. I don't mean to sound argumentative, and hope I don't come across that way. You put time and effort into your comment and I'm just tryin to do the same with thorough responses to your questions. You mentioned my shooting position? I can definitely use a lane coach if you want to offer some critique there. Thanks again for the comment Slav!
Thank you for the feedback. I went back through the video to see what you're referring to. I assume you're talking about the Harris bipod on the Savage rifle? Are you referring to the connection of the bipod to the rifle, or the fact that I don't tighten down the pan/tilt? Thank you for clarifying.
I like your video and the explanation. I would suggest you try a sniper sock on the rear. It is just a sock filled with kitty litter that is pliable so it will allow you to set the stock and get a firm foundation. It helps me keep from the movement you are experiencing. I use it on top of a rear rest for a very firm foundation. I hope it works for you. I am a .308 shooter and have a Savage FCP with a 24 inch barrel. It shoots very well with 168 Sierra's and Varget. God bless you and thank you for your service. Keep the testing going.
MD, thank you for the feedback and kind words, it's truly appreciated. Next time I'm by a Hobby Lobby I'm going to look for some polly beads to replace the sand in the AirFoil, and will look into creating a sock as well. More to follow, thanks for the tip!
Very interesting video. Some good observations and advice in the comments, too. I appear to have a problem with chassis/tactical stocks. Just cannot find the right position. On the other hand, I shoot off McMillan and old-school military stocks like I been shooting them for ages. Ammo...I tried a few factory match in both 308 and 223, none were as accurate as my own reloads.
I like the adjustability of the chassis, but if old school works for you, don't fix what isn't broken. Cheaper setups that way too. Handloads for the win!
I had high hopes for the Airfoil bag, but as it stands, you are correct. The scope cam and target cam have different uses. The scope cam is for me to review later to try to determine what I was doing when I pull a shot. Besides, I love the added challenge of the shortened eye relief lol. Thank you for the comment Chris.
First, It all comes down to recoil management. knowing how you to accomplish that is the hard part, at first anyway. I've been shooting F-class since 2014, and to confirm what you said about the rear bag... I've learned that a good, firm rear bag is essential to consistency. As you probably know, natural point of aim is important. You want to have a relaxed body and move the bipod or rear bag to get on target. can you lower your bipod to fit the rear bags better? Another thing, and it totally goes against the norm for most people is not using a cheek weld. Because its hard to keep it the exactly same every time. inconsistent pressure from shot equals inconsistent shooting. most F-class shooters put very little if not no cheek pressure on the stock. the only reason they touch the stock is because its against the rules to not lol. benchrest shooters usually don't touch the stock at all with their cheek. The front of your gun is definitely wobbly. thats gotta be killing you. If i were you i would get a sinclair F-class bipod to start out with. it will give you a stable rest and allow you to work on everything esle. after that, use your other bipods and master those.
Dude. I really appreciate all the effort you put into this response. I was going to disagree with you about getting an F class bipod because I'm not interested in that discipline of shooting, but you make a good point about learning there and establishing the basics. Where are you from?
@TheProcrastinatingPrepper ha, I was wondering if it was gonna be too much to read, haha. Hopefully, it helps. the precision game definitely has a learning curve. Im from Minnesota. Commysota, maybe lol I can definitely relate with people just getting started in the precision game. When I started in 2004 with reloading and shooting I went all in at one time with everything. talk about being in the dark and having lots of struggles. the internet wasn't much, plus i had no access to it. all i could do is read when something that came out in a magazine. It was some frustrating times lol. I reloaded for 8 years before i really had any success with accuracy. those 8 years would have been a lot more successful if i would have known what to listen to and what not to listen to. It was hard to know what the causes were. I ended up buying a cooper rifle in 223 and finally saw that I can reload ammo correctly and shoot small groups, haha. things have evolved to being able to have a rifle and reloads that are capable of being competitive in F-class. its been a fun journey. I hope you enjoy the process. anyway, you gotta experiment with your technique, cheek pressure, hand location and pressure, shoulder pressure, and body positioning. which you probably know with your 20 years in the army. thumb location and pressure was something i had to be cognizant of. Aftet 20 years of the army drilling how to shoot into your head, Im sure its hard to change if needed. haha. Anyway forgive the rambling and look forward to seeing things progress.
That best group .75 on the right. Notice your recoil was consistent as compared to the target on the left rifle was dancing in every direction. It's how you hold it. When you load your bipod and put your face on the stock, try not to have your "trembling" hands all over the rifle. Less human contact is better. My free opinion. worth what you paid for it :)
Hey Lev, thank you. Free advice is often worth more than you pay for it, especially if you listen. I appreciate the feedback, I'll have to go back and review the two groups to see what I was doing different.
It’s not easy man. This is why champions literally have machines as front rests 😂 Word of advice, squeeze your rear bag to adjust elevation with your left hand.
Yeah, that takes all the fun out of it, or at least I would think so, clearly no experience there. Thanks for the advice, it may not show, but I am using left hand to manipulate the bag. The small bag on top of the air bag anyway. At least I think I was, I'll have to go back and watch.
Make some dummy rounds for dry fire practice and with them dill holes in them so you will be able to tell the dummy rounds from the real ammunition. Next, your bipod has a lot of play movement back and forth not good for accuracy. The US Army doesn't really teach you how to shoot accurately, just load the rifle and point it in the right direction and fire. If you aren’t combat of arms, all the MOSs may not see a firing range for years even when you carry a sidearm when on duty. It was one of the things that I hated about the Army. 24 months and no range time. - pistol didn't work.
You are 100% correct that the general Soldier does not learn a lot about accuracy. I never realized it until I started doing long range that the BRM techniques the Army teaches are really more of spray and pray. Thank you for the feedback.
Thank you for the tip. I have definitely used a LeadSled on a bench but just don't find that shooting style enjoyable. For load development or initial accuracy of a rifle, that's one thing. But as I grow as a shooter I also want to know what variables I am adding to the accuracy and consistency of the groups, and enjoy shooting while challenging myself.
@@TheProcrastinatingPrepperyeah, I don't know for sure. I started watching his videos when he first started. He had absolutely no experience, but acted and talked like he did. every product he reviewed was the best, even when they were made to do the same thing, but just different brands. he seems like a total shill. I think his heart lies in the wrong place. In reality he has done very little. He's just good at presenting himself. like most you tubers. Unfortunately, the only thing that seems to validate people is the number of subscribers and views they get. not real world experience and knowledge.
@reloadingfun I'll make you a deal. I'm a very small creator, and also not a pro by any means, but if I ever catch his attention try to get together and ask him some questions for you.
Thanks DG. That's okay though, Karl is absolutely entitled to his opinion, and I do "aim" to be a better shooter. The only thing I can fault Karl on is I think he meant !!!
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
hello old sailor here i wanted to say thank you for this video i just bought the 110 and started just getting into shooting and found i made all the same mistakes and still learning lol but that being said thank you again it helped what i was doing wrong lol take care
Hey Cordel, I appreciate you leaving a comment. My goal is definitely trying to help, usually by learning from my mistakes. Glad it was able to reach you.
@@TheProcrastinatingPrepper my friend it did i have subscribed and will be waiting for your next video
@cordel666giglesworth6 thank you Cordel
It's interesting. I have some rifles that like to be shot clean and some that shoot better with some copper fouling. I had a Tikka CTR that would average under 0.5 MOA for 5-shot groups open up to like 0.8 MOA. Sure enough, there was an obscene amount of copper fouling in the barrel. Eliminating that brought it right back to normal.
Such a simple rule that I definitely learned the hard way. I spent way to long chasing that secret.
Having same issues with my savage “precision” .300 win mag. Very frustrated with savage .
Have the group changed or moved, or same problem from the start?
Its all over the place . Depending on ammo , and other things. But never really under 1.5 to 2.0 moa groups. Looked at barrel with borescope. Terrible chatter/reamer marks. Looked at two other savages at cabelas, precision had extra metal jutting from side of rifling and a chunk missing from rifling land…. Elite had uneven rifling , looked like a 5 year old tried to draw a straight line and failed…. Anyway, savage has problems imo, at this point. Changing mine to a criterion.
@@berserkerok3351 love the term blueprinted, elite, and precision lol. Let me know how that criterion works out and what happens to your groups.
Will try , may be a while , i think there is about a 10 week wait for the barrel.
I certainly appreciate your effort. What most people don’t realize is that the rifle is inherently accurate to a certain level. Everything else subtract from that accuracy. This would be the choice of caliber, the choice of ammo, all of the accessories we put on the gun, and our skills as a shooter. You picked a pretty decent gun, however, right off the bat you picked it in a caliber which is not inherently the most accurate. 308 is very much an old-school caliber where the Sammy specifications are all over the map as it record to quality ammo. This is going to be very different from a modern caliber such a 65 Creedmoor where you can pretty much take any factory 65 Creedmoor ammo and it will shoot well because the published specifications have much finer tolerances. Secondly, when you are shooting, you have a suppressor, have you accounted for how the suppressor is mounted, what it does per point of impact and point of impact shift, and what it does for barrel harmonics. Second, you have a pretty nice rifle, but I believe you’re using a Cabela’s scope, not exactly an amazing scope. we don’t know anything about the rings. You might ask is are you 100% sure that the scope and radical are not shifting on you in between shots. And then finally is your position as a shooter. Sorry for the spelling errors as I am using speech to text.
Hey Slav, I appreciate the comments.
These were the first rifles I bought when I took on the hobby. Coming from the military all I know are 5.56 and 7.62. I had an AR10 and wanted to keep ammo uniformity. This was before I was watching a lot of RUclips, so yes I probably would have started with 6.5 Creedmoor if I had known better. Good call. Hopefully when I start working hand loads though that will take the slack out of SAMI variances.
I try to always shoot suppresed so zero and DOPE get built around the impact shift for the suppressor. Granted with the quick connect I realize that it does not perfectly realign each time it is installed. I am aware of how harmonics work, but have not mitigated yet. Hand loads will help account for sure. Eric Cortina may be able to convince me to install and test out an EC Tuner someday.
As for the optic, yes its an inexpensive optic. I don't mean this in a hostile way, please don't misunderstand. You can outshoot me all day long with our current skill sets today. I don't think that swapping out the inexpensive scope for a NightForce or Schmidt and Bender, or Leupold will account for our difference in skill. I think that people starting out who don't have a ton of money to blow should try a few budget options, especially as they learn and grow. I know the theory out there that it's better to have a $1,000 optic over a $500 rifle than a $500 optic over a $1,000 rifle, or to put it another way, the optic should be the most expensive part of the build. That being said, at my growing skill level, I enjoy trying out options, especially with the ability to then let others know whether it may be a good option for them or not, junk or worth the money. That being said, through the testing I've done with the scope I have not noticed a shift in the reticle, and it has not moved in the Warne rings, still horizontally level and has not shifted forward in the rings.
You are correct that there is better quality equipment out there, and someday my goal will be to outshoot the rifle and need upgraded equipment. For today though, the rifle sadly wins as more accurate than I.
I don't mean to sound argumentative, and hope I don't come across that way. You put time and effort into your comment and I'm just tryin to do the same with thorough responses to your questions.
You mentioned my shooting position? I can definitely use a lane coach if you want to offer some critique there.
Thanks again for the comment Slav!
All kidding aside your bipod does appear to be very loose on rifle. That will make a big difference in your grouping.
Thank you for the feedback. I went back through the video to see what you're referring to. I assume you're talking about the Harris bipod on the Savage rifle? Are you referring to the connection of the bipod to the rifle, or the fact that I don't tighten down the pan/tilt? Thank you for clarifying.
I like your video and the explanation. I would suggest you try a sniper sock on the rear. It is just a sock filled with kitty litter that is pliable so it will allow you to set the stock and get a firm foundation. It helps me keep from the movement you are experiencing. I use it on top of a rear rest for a very firm foundation. I hope it works for you. I am a .308 shooter and have a Savage FCP with a 24 inch barrel. It shoots very well with 168 Sierra's and Varget. God bless you and thank you for your service. Keep the testing going.
MD, thank you for the feedback and kind words, it's truly appreciated. Next time I'm by a Hobby Lobby I'm going to look for some polly beads to replace the sand in the AirFoil, and will look into creating a sock as well. More to follow, thanks for the tip!
I used rice instead of cat litter
Very interesting video. Some good observations and advice in the comments, too. I appear to have a problem with chassis/tactical stocks. Just cannot find the right position. On the other hand, I shoot off McMillan and old-school military stocks like I been shooting them for ages. Ammo...I tried a few factory match in both 308 and 223, none were as accurate as my own reloads.
I like the adjustability of the chassis, but if old school works for you, don't fix what isn't broken. Cheaper setups that way too. Handloads for the win!
I would dump that airbag , its like using a bloody ballon as a rear support , use a normal sand bag , forget the scope cam , just use a tgt cam ,
I had high hopes for the Airfoil bag, but as it stands, you are correct. The scope cam and target cam have different uses. The scope cam is for me to review later to try to determine what I was doing when I pull a shot. Besides, I love the added challenge of the shortened eye relief lol. Thank you for the comment Chris.
First, It all comes down to recoil management. knowing how you to accomplish that is the hard part, at first anyway.
I've been shooting F-class since 2014, and to confirm what you said about the rear bag... I've learned that a good, firm rear bag is essential to consistency. As you probably know, natural point of aim is important. You want to have a relaxed body and move the bipod or rear bag to get on target.
can you lower your bipod to fit the rear bags better?
Another thing, and it totally goes against the norm for most people is not using a cheek weld. Because its hard to keep it the exactly same every time. inconsistent pressure from shot equals inconsistent shooting. most F-class shooters put very little if not no cheek pressure on the stock. the only reason they touch the stock is because its against the rules to not lol.
benchrest shooters usually don't touch the stock at all with their cheek.
The front of your gun is definitely wobbly. thats gotta be killing you. If i were you i would get a sinclair F-class bipod to start out with. it will give you a stable rest and allow you to work on everything esle. after that, use your other bipods and master those.
Dude. I really appreciate all the effort you put into this response. I was going to disagree with you about getting an F class bipod because I'm not interested in that discipline of shooting, but you make a good point about learning there and establishing the basics.
Where are you from?
@TheProcrastinatingPrepper ha, I was wondering if it was gonna be too much to read, haha. Hopefully, it helps. the precision game definitely has a learning curve.
Im from Minnesota. Commysota, maybe lol
I can definitely relate with people just getting started in the precision game. When I started in 2004 with reloading and shooting I went all in at one time with everything. talk about being in the dark and having lots of struggles. the internet wasn't much, plus i had no access to it. all i could do is read when something that came out in a magazine. It was some frustrating times lol. I reloaded for 8 years before i really had any success with accuracy. those 8 years would have been a lot more successful if i would have known what to listen to and what not to listen to. It was hard to know what the causes were. I ended up buying a cooper rifle in 223 and finally saw that I can reload ammo correctly and shoot small groups, haha. things have evolved to being able to have a rifle and reloads that are capable of being competitive in F-class. its been a fun journey. I hope you enjoy the process.
anyway, you gotta experiment with your technique, cheek pressure, hand location and pressure, shoulder pressure, and body positioning. which you probably know with your 20 years in the army. thumb location and pressure was something i had to be cognizant of. Aftet 20 years of the army drilling how to shoot into your head, Im sure its hard to change if needed. haha. Anyway forgive the rambling and look forward to seeing things progress.
That best group .75 on the right. Notice your recoil was consistent as compared to the target on the left rifle was dancing in every direction. It's how you hold it. When you load your bipod and put your face on the stock, try not to have your "trembling" hands all over the rifle. Less human contact is better. My free opinion. worth what you paid for it :)
Hey Lev, thank you. Free advice is often worth more than you pay for it, especially if you listen. I appreciate the feedback, I'll have to go back and review the two groups to see what I was doing different.
Karl,..,.... Don't be mean. The man is learning. Give him a break.
Thanks for the support Magic. I'll keep shooting, but I appreciate the encouragement.
It’s not easy man. This is why champions literally have machines as front rests 😂 Word of advice, squeeze your rear bag to adjust elevation with your left hand.
Yeah, that takes all the fun out of it, or at least I would think so, clearly no experience there.
Thanks for the advice, it may not show, but I am using left hand to manipulate the bag. The small bag on top of the air bag anyway. At least I think I was, I'll have to go back and watch.
Make some dummy rounds for dry fire practice and with them dill holes in them so you will be able to tell the dummy rounds from the real ammunition. Next, your bipod has a lot of play movement back and forth not good for accuracy.
The US Army doesn't really teach you how to shoot accurately, just load the rifle and point it in the right direction and fire. If you aren’t combat of arms, all the MOSs may not see a firing range for years even when you carry a sidearm when on duty. It was one of the things that I hated about the Army. 24 months and no range time. - pistol didn't work.
You are 100% correct that the general Soldier does not learn a lot about accuracy. I never realized it until I started doing long range that the BRM techniques the Army teaches are really more of spray and pray. Thank you for the feedback.
Lead sled off a bench
Thank you for the tip. I have definitely used a LeadSled on a bench but just don't find that shooting style enjoyable. For load development or initial accuracy of a rifle, that's one thing. But as I grow as a shooter I also want to know what variables I am adding to the accuracy and consistency of the groups, and enjoy shooting while challenging myself.
ultimate reloader? isn't he's an amateur at this also?
Gavin seems like a pretty cool dude, I watch him to learn, especially being a local here in Washington.
@@TheProcrastinatingPrepperyeah, I don't know for sure. I started watching his videos when he first started. He had absolutely no experience, but acted and talked like he did. every product he reviewed was the best, even when they were made to do the same thing, but just different brands. he seems like a total shill. I think his heart lies in the wrong place. In reality he has done very little. He's just good at presenting himself. like most you tubers. Unfortunately, the only thing that seems to validate people is the number of subscribers and views they get. not real world experience and knowledge.
@reloadingfun I'll make you a deal. I'm a very small creator, and also not a pro by any means, but if I ever catch his attention try to get together and ask him some questions for you.
LEARN HOW TO SHOOT111
Learn to shift???
Thank you for the feedback though.
Karl's real name is Dick. Keep up the good work!
Thanks DG. That's okay though, Karl is absolutely entitled to his opinion, and I do "aim" to be a better shooter.
The only thing I can fault Karl on is I think he meant !!!