English farmer here: yeah an old waxed jacket isn't especially waterproof, but it's the only one that's going to be anything more than rags after you've crawled out of a thorn hedge with a rescued lamb.
There's some hunting stuff that is Denier Nylon with DWR these days. At least 400 denier for normal use, but fwiw, a 600 denier will give you about 1 use of sliding on concrete at 100kph without getting through to your skin. It's what the non-leather motorcycle jackets are made from. That said DWR wears off really fast in true downpours and/or busting through brush, but no worse than wax. DWR is a lot easier to re-apply than wax. Anyone that hunts in cold downpours wears impertech though. DWR just doesn't hold up to real outdoor rain.
Years of riding motorcycles 365 days per year, nothing beat traditional waxed cotton. In the wet and cold it would take the texture of tarpaper so I eventually got a second rain suit so that I could rotate them and keep one dry and supple.
Not surprised by the leaky shoulder seams. 100+ years ago this was known to be a weak point hence the introduction of the Raglan style where the shoulders are in one piece with the seams across the chest and back. When rewaxing I always add extra to the seams. Great video!
The problem is exacerbated by the fact that the modern thread used will usually be polyester or nylon in order to achieve high strength. The wax cannot permeate these materials and therefore water can follow the thread into the jacket.
@@mpireoutdoors5274 all the more reason to not use synthetics. There is no synthetic material that I have ever found that works better than a natural one. In the past, the utility and function of a garment was determined by its pattern design in conjunction with the materials and treatments used on the fabrics. Today companies are only interested in producing the most money possible so they make bland patterns that have no utility or design and are made to fit as wide a variety of people as possible while being made as quick and cheap as possible. For example I have a vintage Filson logging coat that is probably the most waterproof and durable you can get in a garment. It is a double layered cape coat with double sleeves so the outside layer will soak up and shed water before the inner layer gets too wet.
I was in York (England) a couple of years ago and it was quite rainy. I didn't have a proper jacket and decided I should probably buy one. York not being a major town like London it had a lot of older folks visiting and walking around. I thought it was really cool how the majority of older men wore their Barbour jackets and brogued shoes. I stumbled upon a store with many different Barbour models and I picked me up my favorite waxed jacket. The jacket is lined and fairly warm but not too warm. Since I live in TX the jacket is perfect for our mild winters too. Great video as always sir! I love what you do and the material you share in your channel!
“When in Rome, do as the romans” It’s always a good starting point to see what the locals are wearing. And where they’re eating too, to get the best possible to the best price too.
I love that idea. My theory is that a hand waxed jacket of a good design will perform as well or better then any production waxed jacket. Now let's test that theory!
Yes and also please mention the type of wax treatment you are using. I've used the filson's original oil finish wax as well as Outback Trading Company duck back reproofing cream and have similar results I still want to try the wax that Barbour uses.
Thanks Carl - perfect timing - I received my lined Flint and Tinder jacket just this past Friday. I purchased the unlined version a couple of months ago. I'm looking forward to cooler, wet weather to give them my own trial. Keep up the great work on your videos!
Thirty years ago, I had a Barbour motorcycle rain suit (jacket and trousers). Above 80mph, it leaked through the seams and fabric. It had a great buckled collar that closed the gap below a full-face helmet. It was flannel lined, and when standing still or for around town riding, it was excellent. Ten or twelve years back I sold it, along with my last long-distance bike, and got a Filson Tin Cloth Cruiser. That one is only pretty good because it doesn’t have a storm flap or lining. But it gets admiring comments, probably because it’s so damned expensive. Anyway, I’m pretty sure the waxed canvas is all sourced from Australia these days.
Where I live, nobody knows about Filson. Yet, I frequently get "admiring comments" on their Mackinaw Wool and Tin Cloth products. I think they just happen to have that classic rugged aesthetic that people like. Unfortunately, it is usually the seams where waxed cotton usually fails at. I usually put as much wax in those areas until it no longer soaks up.
And I was wearing a woolen Filson Mackinaw vest under my Barbour Int’l. in freezing rain and snow just last week in Yellowstone NP. They worked just fine. I, too, no longer have my big bike but my Vespa is excuse enough to never give it away.
I have used waxed jackets outdoors in hard weather for a long time - expeditions or journeys lasting from weeks to months in autumn and through winter. They are extremely durable but are also very heavy and not very insulative. The fact that you are achieving waterproofing by using wax to fill the gaps between the fibres of the fabric - and if the material is cotton, to saturate the fibres themselves - means that the more waterproof you make it the less breathable it will be. In addition, regardless of what anyone says, wax will transfer to things which have long-term contact with the treated item; in my case backpacks. A waxed jacket cannot compete in terms of weatherproofing in comparison with a jacket employing a modern weather membrane e.g. Goretex. IMO the main attractions of waxed jackets are the high durability, good resistance to sparks from fires, and appearance. And if you have leather seats in your car you can treat your jacket with a wax which is beneficial to leather and your bodyweight will automatically cream and polish your car seat as you drive, so perhaps it could make a good driving jacket. But for me; I'd rather spend the money on a high quality jacket - or 2 - with a modern weather membrane which I know will be more comfortable, more water resistant and not rub wax into other items, which can be a real problem if the other item is a sleeping bag or a fibrous insulating jacket as the wax coats the fibres and significantly reduces their insulative performance. If you want to try a waxed jacket I'd suggest you wax an old jacket before buying one. Even for pure fashion purposes there are other options which are just as cool but which are more practical, and won't mess up the other items in your bag during travel.
Not being snarky but my test of wet weather gear is riding a motorcycle at 70mph in the rain. Barbour suits get more waterproof as they saturate and the cotton fibers swell.
Taking one for the team! I'm an old outdoorsman, and I'm a fan of waxed jackets. Like Ben Scriven said, they hold up. My old Army rainwear used to get shredded everytime we practiced an ambush in wet weather, but a waxed jacket would still be useful. Overall, I liked the video and the dedication to figuring out what worked well!
Thanks for the testing. I've been looking at one of those jackets and was wondering if it was actually rain resistant at all, or more of just a fashion piece. This answers my questions. Beautiful filming and editing as always.
I've been wearing Barbour jackets for 40 years now and if kept waxed they are 100% waterproof even in a Scottish Winter but they lack breathability for hard physical activity and they are heavy so I have Gore-tex for hiking. Open pockets are always a no no though. Good video thanks. 🏴🇬🇧
I can vouch for the wills jacket holding up really well. Spent an entire day over memorial day weekend in a torrential downpour and stayed dry. Love the jacket
Even the best gortex can get wet out in heavy rain, water repellent treatments to more affordable jackets is definitely something people should not write off.
wax cotton jackets are good, specially a nice barber. its not just about water proofing though, it's about wind too. a jacket is useless if the wind just blows right through it, you still end up cold. barbers where for farmers originally because of their durability and became a fashion item because of the cost, and stylish looks.
Timber faller here. I power was my tin cruiser. Maybe a tiny bit of water gets in. But it could be thru the collar or button holes. But not enough to worry about. That’s laying it flat on the driveway and blast it buttoned up then flipping it. I have an old duster or long packer that is double layered. Never gotten water in. Solid equipment
As a Scots man I can assure you that the one and only hunting jacket I trust in any weather is Barbour. Trying to use something of lesser quality as a substitute is sacrilege once a year i re wax my jacket of 9+ years I've spent maybe £30 on wax and it is completely watertight if you want I will go do the exact same test and I will be completely bone dry
Speaking from experience, the Barbour needs to be relatively well waxed. After a year of waxing, the rain resistance begins to fade, especially on pockets, and on shoulders. So you gotta actually wax those things periodically.
I wore my fairly new Barbour Ashby jacket one fall afternoon doing yard work and got poured on by a rain storm, but I continued since I was already in the middle of the job. The jacket and seams held up nicely without any leaks in the shoulders or anywhere else. My only complaint is that Barbour uses a nylon sleeve lining in the Ashby jacket that doesn't breath at all. Any minor activity such as walking while wearing the jacket results in sweaty, clammy arms. I will say that getting the outside of the Ashy jacket completely soaked in the pouring rain and then hanging it to dry in the house really helped with the development of patina.
Living in the UK (an 5 mins from the Barbour factory), I love my Barbour waxed Northumbria jacket. 10years in, and several heavy customisations, I've re-waxed it twice and have paid very close attention during the process to get those top seams and collar for EXACTLY the reason you mentioned re: the Allen Edmonds jacket. Mine used to spend many rainy weekends shooting, but has an easier life overall now.
I've had 3 Barbour jackets and they all leaked, even after I'd re-waxed them. The last one I bought was brand-new, when I was in Connemara - I went walking on the beach in it that night in heavy rain and came home soaked to the skin. The only one that didn't leak was a short black biker's jacket, which I think was either Barbour or Belstaff.
I have a Barbour of 30 year old, had it sent back to the factory to have it overhauled totally, waxed again and it is as new again. The repair was twice as expensive as a new one :)
I live a couple blocks away from Ship John and tried on that jacket and holy hell that’s a thick and stiff jacket. I couldn’t wear it but I have a waxed canvas hat from them I love. Great company
I always found that waxed jackets ar more a fashion accesory than actually water reppelent workwear. If you wax them enough to be water proof then they don't breath at all and you get really sweaty.
Nice test. I'm the proud owner of the Flint & Tinder. I love the look and feel of that jacket, but I wouldn't consider it a rainwear. Still, I was happy to see how it performed in your video!
My Fjallraven Forest Jacket No. 3 works fairly well here in Portland. It is a pure hunting jacket that is British military wool with waxed cloth pockets, shoulders, arm patches and back. Very heavy weight. I don't know how it would stand up to a one minute drenching, but for the occasional downpour it hasn't failed me yet. I use the NorthFace Mountain Parka if I am really expecting to get wet. The Barbour waxed hunting jacket Bond wore in Skyfall looks cool and it does have a hood and storm flap. I believe it is discontinued and the updated version lacks the storm flap and hood.
I have a lot of Filson Tin Cloth and Shelter Cloth jackets and had a couple pair of Tin brush pants and Double Tin pants that I shredded with use. Even while new, after hours of upland bird hunting in heavy wet brush, or hours of working/hunting/walking outside in the rain or wet snow, they all soaked through... A few of the hunting coats are approaching 20 years old and have been heavily rewaxed multiple times (melted in with a heat gun). In cooler / cold weather I wear a wool Filson vest under them and that keeps them feeling OK even if they soak through... but the already heavy coats weigh a ton when they are soaking wet! I'm Okay with that as the protection from the thorns, brush, rocks, tree branches, tools, logs, firewood rounds, wind, and other things that attack me is still there. I also have an Orvis waxed "rain coat" that soaks through almost instantly... at best it's a foggy day coat, not a rain coat. For walking around in more urban settings my Tin Packer coat and Tin Packer hat keep me pretty dry for many hours.... I think the difference is that when I'm just walking around I'm not constantly flexing the material and nothing is touching it. I equate it to a canvas tent... they are quite water proof in the rain until you, or something else, touches the canvas... then you have a drip! All that said, I find that when I'm engaged in physical exertion I get wet regardless of the material. It's either the rain/wet snow soaking through or the perspiration accumulating inside. That includes Gor-tex, various coated nylons, sheet plastics, etc. The most water resistant and comfortable "rain coat" I have is a Sierra Designs Hurricane jacket. It's great for walking around but I imagine it would be shredded in no time if I used it for hunting or work.
Yes ! in heavy shower you end up by embrace the rain. All garments we have are "only" water retardant, but, at the end all is wet from a manner or the other. As we know it the best is to have garments which dry fast or to be warmy wet.
On my motorcycle, I wear aa Aerostich "Falstaff" waxed cotton jacket. Fantastic for waterproof and wind resistance. Expensive at $700 bucks but worth it- and made in the US.
DWR is used on Goretex jackets as well as pretty much all membrane and coated waterproof jackets (taped seam jackets). It is used to stop the outer fabric wetting out as that dramatically reduces breathability . If you want a very different waterproof system look at Paramo which uses a DWR and an inner fabric which behaves like animal fur and pushes the water out again by surface tension. The breathability is vastly better than GTX but it does have drawbacks like requiring regular proofing and is heavier and warmer than GTX style waterproofs (not a problem in winter).
@TRIG POINT I got my first Paramo jacket in 1992 when it had been out about a year and have been using various generations ever since. Some people don't like it and it doesn't suit them but to say it is garbage is nonsense and you see loads of Paramo jackets worn out and about. It is by far the most breathable waterproof and the only thing that I've found rivals it for breathability is Ventile double layer cotton but that has drawbacks. And there are plenty of retailers that still stock Paramo but they are small independent retailers. You are welcome to come back in a year's time and prove me wrong but I'm pretty sure that you won't. For info I have also used pretty much every generation of Goretex since the late 1980s including the more breathable Active versions designed for runners, Event, and a whole host of proprietary brands including some of the less well known stuff in the UK like Dermizax (though not the NX version ). I haven't used Polartec Neo shell which is supposed to be the most breathable of the membrane waterproof materials. Sadly, though not the best, Goretex has the best advertising budget and people ask for it because it is what they have heard of, so manufacturers drop better materials as they don't sell as well.
Waxing the seams extra thoroughly when re waxing your jacket is important, Because of how much fabric there is and the stitching that goes through all the layers. If it’s not sealed the wax will transport the beads of water into all the nooks and crannies of the seam which ain’t good.
i've already given up on waxed jackets years ago. in my city, half of the year is raining & the average annual rainfall intensity is a total of 2,200cm or more. in my experience, waxed jackets are only good for very light drizzles (in which case you might as well don't need weather protection) or gives you 10 minutes of water resistance before you find shelter. i used to wear a waxed jacket for the style, but now i wear synthetic materials for true waterproof.
I have a waxed jacket. Pretty much agree. Great for getting from the car to the shops, or maybe walking the dog around the block. Drizzle wear. Not serious out in the rain all day wear. (Sidenote I have a positively ancient shelter half poncho for serious outdoor rain work)
Water resistance is based on how much wax is used, as well as canvas weight and weave. I use both purchased and hand waxed clothing and other items. But I use it more for durability, not really water resistance. I go through regular canvas in a few months. Waxed lasts significantly longer for me, even lightly waxed. A lot of wax can be quite water resistant but uncomfortable for every day. When it rains, I just use a rain jacket.
The main reason for a wax jacket is the abuse they can take that GoreTex and the like cannot. Brambles, thorns, barbed wire, etc. A GoreTex jacket wouldn’t last a day. Waxed jackets are far more resilient Heavy waxed jackets will stand up on their own when cold and will get clammy inside when working but they will last many years. Ideally they should have raglan sleeves so there’s no shoulder seam to leak. Also most have large pockets for crap. Tools, hats, knives, flashlights etc. Longer ones will normally have a hood that’s usually snapped on. Barbour are great but have gotten prohibitively expensive for abusing when new. There’s very good quality jackets from Hoggs of Fife, Regatta, Rydale etc. for a fraction of the price that you don’t mind getting covered in mud and dog hair. I have a motorcycle style one that I wear around town sometimes and a couple of beaters for at home. A long “Beaufort” style (Hoggs Woodsman) and a Drizabone Brumby short jacket (like a Carhartt Detroit but waxed). When you need to beat the crap out of a jacket, nothing comes close.
I kinda wish you had covered Barbour and Belstaff jackets here, though appreciate you're wearing American brands while I'm British. That Flint & Tinder trucker is a beauty in every colour they make it and has been on my radar for a while.
You should do a results/conclusions section at the end that recaps your verdicts on each, gives the pros & cons of each and then ends with your recommendation
Since this was not mentioned i want to clarify that Goretex is NOT waterproof, DWR (wich is applied to goretex) and sealing tape (which is put on the seam of Goretex jackets) are (both are easily accessible and you can technically put on anything), Gore-tex is a fabric that allows "waterproofness" to breath better, the more waterproof something is, the less body moisture is able to exit out, like rubber rain boots or PVC rain coats that fog, water will basically never enter, but your sweat has nowhere to exit out of either, BUT it is important to know that Goretex is not something anyone can just buy to make jackets, to be able to sell a jacket with their fabric they need to approve it's constructed properly to make the most out of it, so it is somewhat a sign of quality if authentic
My flint and tinder ( same jacket ) does well in wet English conditions. The belstaffs are something else though mate . Top notch . Cracking video as always.
Atsko Extreme Waterguard. A gallon is about $60. Use a spray bottle to apply, and it waterproofs anything. Honestly, I gave up waxing my stuff. It looks cool, but isn't nearly waterproof enough, and does need a lot of maintenance to keep it truly waterproof.
One thing about them jackets, as a hunter/fisherman water will go down your face, then neck and into your body. Happened more than once, that's how I mostly get wet in real world conditions. 🌧
Almost put my Will’s on today, but still not cool enough for it. It held up all fall, winter, and most of spring in Maine. I am a huge fan of ShipJohn stuff so I can’t wait for your review, bummer Mike wouldn’t do an interview. Great Video Carl!!! Go dry off before the pats game 😆
Carl...tx for this video. You mentioned all of the coates have about the same amount of wear but when was the last time that you had each of the wax cotton versions retreated?
Thanks for all your great videos Carl! Waiting on your review on the the Wills :) I was lucky to get one on ebay, old model with the leather patch on the chest pocket. I belive the newer models are sized different. The xxl-long old size fits me perfect, love it :)
Dwp is the coating on the synthetic jacket, which is a PFAS -called a forever chemical and are linked with serious health issues. Given fluoropolymers’ extreme persistence, emissions associated with their production, use, and disposal, and high likelihood for human exposure to PFAS, their production and uses should be curtailed except in cases of essential use. Ill stick with my waxed jacket, especially since my du Pont one failed! The forever chemical came off and is now down a drain somewhere!
Honestly, I was a bit surprised not to see a Filson Tin Cloth jacket here. That aside, waxed cotton usually fails at the seams. I keep on adding more until it no longer soaks in. Probably the "best" waxed cotton jacket I've come across was the TAD Talisman. Could be the Haley Stevenson wax or it's construction but I have spent hours in the rain and remained dry.
I have a filson double tin coat and it’s quite water resistant. I recently got a Fjallraven jacket that I’ve waxed myself. Two layers of wax and it still has areas where water soaks thru. I’m going to give it a third coat so hopefully that will be a bit better, but so far I can’t claim that the Fjallraven is a great rain coat. However it works great as a shell in light snow and wind and cold.
goretex is generally not the water repellant we see on jackets (through bare goretex will repel water a good bit). goretex is mainly waterproof. they apply a breathable DWR coating (that isnt goretex) on the surface to repell water :) The only version of goretex that is really repellant is the "shake dry"
Goretex is a membrane of expanded PTFE usually bonded to a nylon face fabric, the dwr coating is there to stop the fabric wetting out so the goretex can remain breathable.
All rain gear leaks eventually I'm a field geologist and on a long rainy day working in the bush, all of it leaks or you soak in your own sweat. We used to call Gore Tex, Leaktex........ Even the high quality goretex garments.
I'm guessing the leaking shoulder seams are because the jacket was made from cloth that was already waxed, and not waxing the coat as a finished item. Therefore there was no wax worked into the seams.
I would have liked to see a test done on a couple of other popular and established brands like Driza-Bone and Barbour. I once found a Driza-Bone cowboy style long jacket with the separate shoulder blanket thing literally half buried in a driveway. I don't know how long it had been there but it must have been quite a while. I don't like that cowboy look for a jacket. So I cut off the shoulder blanket thing and then took it to a tailor and had them cut it down to a 3/4 length instead. I then made my own wax dressing from an unused toilet wax donut, bees wax, and white paraffin wax from some candles I had. I then heated up the mixture till it was liquid and stirred it thoroughly then applied it to the coat and it did a great job of waterproofing it. I just bought a 100% cotton Kuhl jacket and a bar of Otter wax. I had issue getting the wax to both cover the whole coat and do so evenly. It would need at least 2 5oz bars to apply enough wax to the jacket properly and it was a pain in the ass to scrub the wax bar over the whole thing. I have all sorts of areas that it isn't on thick enough that I would expect it to work all that well. So, I am going to either buy the tin of otter wax dressing or a can or two of Barbour wax dressing which goes on the same way from being melted. Also, one point to mention regarding something like Gore-Tex compared to a waxed cotton is that waxed clothing doesn't breathe. I remember it being like wearing a rubber or plastic waterproof coat where I would sweat so much during moderate to heavy activity to the point where I was just as wet on the inside from the sweat that I wouldn't have been much wetter if I wore a windbreaker instead. And I wouldn't have been as uncomfortable as I was hot and sweaty either. But I do love wax cotton jackets, they last 3 times as long as un waxed ones do, and in winter they keep out the wind too. Plus, I like the way they look as well.
Great video loved it. Would love to see a barbour review as out in the uk its probably the most common go to wax jacket and costing how much they do it would be nice to know if its worth it
With unlined wax jackets you really have to properly layer them, because by its nature wax jackets or not very breathable. And there’s nothing colder in the winter or warmer in the summer then a waxed jacket over a light shirt.
This video could also be titled “What it’s really like to be in the Marine Corps” because of the fact that during an otherwise sunny day a downpour will find its way to be EXACTLY where you are
Have you ever considered the Walker and Hawkes brand? It's a cheaper hunting focused brand from the UK, and they have a variety of quite affordable waxed cotton jackets in the $50 - $150 range (if you by direct and not from amazon)
English farmer here: yeah an old waxed jacket isn't especially waterproof, but it's the only one that's going to be anything more than rags after you've crawled out of a thorn hedge with a rescued lamb.
There's some hunting stuff that is Denier Nylon with DWR these days. At least 400 denier for normal use, but fwiw, a 600 denier will give you about 1 use of sliding on concrete at 100kph without getting through to your skin. It's what the non-leather motorcycle jackets are made from.
That said DWR wears off really fast in true downpours and/or busting through brush, but no worse than wax. DWR is a lot easier to re-apply than wax.
Anyone that hunts in cold downpours wears impertech though. DWR just doesn't hold up to real outdoor rain.
There are some modern tear resistant shell/softshell jackets that you could use to tow a car with.
Years of riding motorcycles 365 days per year, nothing beat traditional waxed cotton. In the wet and cold it would take the texture of tarpaper so I eventually got a second rain suit so that I could rotate them and keep one dry and supple.
@@dbmail545 Uh yeah nah leather beats waxed cotton in just about every metric.
@@z987k 600d is really the minimum but doesn't do anything without kevlar
Not surprised by the leaky shoulder seams. 100+ years ago this was known to be a weak point hence the introduction of the Raglan style where the shoulders are in one piece with the seams across the chest and back. When rewaxing I always add extra to the seams. Great video!
Very interesting!
They do not hold up to the cold in northern USA. It doesn't get cold in England.
The problem is exacerbated by the fact that the modern thread used will usually be polyester or nylon in order to achieve high strength. The wax cannot permeate these materials and therefore water can follow the thread into the jacket.
cool bit of trivia there
@@mpireoutdoors5274 all the more reason to not use synthetics. There is no synthetic material that I have ever found that works better than a natural one. In the past, the utility and function of a garment was determined by its pattern design in conjunction with the materials and treatments used on the fabrics. Today companies are only interested in producing the most money possible so they make bland patterns that have no utility or design and are made to fit as wide a variety of people as possible while being made as quick and cheap as possible. For example I have a vintage Filson logging coat that is probably the most waterproof and durable you can get in a garment. It is a double layered cape coat with double sleeves so the outside layer will soak up and shed water before the inner layer gets too wet.
I was in York (England) a couple of years ago and it was quite rainy. I didn't have a proper jacket and decided I should probably buy one. York not being a major town like London it had a lot of older folks visiting and walking around. I thought it was really cool how the majority of older men wore their Barbour jackets and brogued shoes. I stumbled upon a store with many different Barbour models and I picked me up my favorite waxed jacket. The jacket is lined and fairly warm but not too warm. Since I live in TX the jacket is perfect for our mild winters too. Great video as always sir! I love what you do and the material you share in your channel!
“When in Rome, do as the romans”
It’s always a good starting point to see what the locals are wearing.
And where they’re eating too, to get the best possible to the best price too.
I'd love to see how the one that you waxed yourself holds up.
Yeah, missed opportunity
Definitely on the next version of this, along with Barbour and Filson since it sounds like that what people want to see.
I love that idea. My theory is that a hand waxed jacket of a good design will perform as well or better then any production waxed jacket. Now let's test that theory!
Yes and also please mention the type of wax treatment you are using. I've used the filson's original oil finish wax as well as Outback Trading Company duck back reproofing cream and have similar results I still want to try the wax that Barbour uses.
Thanks Carl - perfect timing - I received my lined Flint and Tinder jacket just this past Friday. I purchased the unlined version a couple of months ago. I'm looking forward to cooler, wet weather to give them my own trial.
Keep up the great work on your videos!
Thank you sir, enjoy!!
Thirty years ago, I had a Barbour motorcycle rain suit (jacket and trousers). Above 80mph, it leaked through the seams and fabric. It had a great buckled collar that closed the gap below a full-face helmet. It was flannel lined, and when standing still or for around town riding, it was excellent. Ten or twelve years back I sold it, along with my last long-distance bike, and got a Filson Tin Cloth Cruiser. That one is only pretty good because it doesn’t have a storm flap or lining. But it gets admiring comments, probably because it’s so damned expensive. Anyway, I’m pretty sure the waxed canvas is all sourced from Australia these days.
Where I live, nobody knows about Filson. Yet, I frequently get "admiring comments" on their Mackinaw Wool and Tin Cloth products. I think they just happen to have that classic rugged aesthetic that people like.
Unfortunately, it is usually the seams where waxed cotton usually fails at. I usually put as much wax in those areas until it no longer soaks up.
I believe most is made by Millerain in Rochdale UK. There is a rumour that they supply Filson.
I'm surprised you didn't include the filson tin cloth cruiser jacket...
And I was wearing a woolen Filson Mackinaw vest under my Barbour Int’l. in freezing rain and snow just last week in Yellowstone NP. They worked just fine. I, too, no longer have my big bike but my Vespa is excuse enough to never give it away.
FIlson‘s tent Cloth comes from Millerain in England.
Sequel: How Fireproof Are Flame Resistant Jacket?
Hahahaha followed by headline: Man Dies Making RUclips Video.
lmao
I have used waxed jackets outdoors in hard weather for a long time - expeditions or journeys lasting from weeks to months in autumn and through winter. They are extremely durable but are also very heavy and not very insulative. The fact that you are achieving waterproofing by using wax to fill the gaps between the fibres of the fabric - and if the material is cotton, to saturate the fibres themselves - means that the more waterproof you make it the less breathable it will be. In addition, regardless of what anyone says, wax will transfer to things which have long-term contact with the treated item; in my case backpacks. A waxed jacket cannot compete in terms of weatherproofing in comparison with a jacket employing a modern weather membrane e.g. Goretex. IMO the main attractions of waxed jackets are the high durability, good resistance to sparks from fires, and appearance. And if you have leather seats in your car you can treat your jacket with a wax which is beneficial to leather and your bodyweight will automatically cream and polish your car seat as you drive, so perhaps it could make a good driving jacket. But for me; I'd rather spend the money on a high quality jacket - or 2 - with a modern weather membrane which I know will be more comfortable, more water resistant and not rub wax into other items, which can be a real problem if the other item is a sleeping bag or a fibrous insulating jacket as the wax coats the fibres and significantly reduces their insulative performance. If you want to try a waxed jacket I'd suggest you wax an old jacket before buying one. Even for pure fashion purposes there are other options which are just as cool but which are more practical, and won't mess up the other items in your bag during travel.
Not being snarky but my test of wet weather gear is riding a motorcycle at 70mph in the rain. Barbour suits get more waterproof as they saturate and the cotton fibers swell.
Taking one for the team! I'm an old outdoorsman, and I'm a fan of waxed jackets. Like Ben Scriven said, they hold up. My old Army rainwear used to get shredded everytime we practiced an ambush in wet weather, but a waxed jacket would still be useful.
Overall, I liked the video and the dedication to figuring out what worked well!
Thanks for the testing. I've been looking at one of those jackets and was wondering if it was actually rain resistant at all, or more of just a fashion piece. This answers my questions. Beautiful filming and editing as always.
Thank you!!!
I've been wearing Barbour jackets for 40 years now and if kept waxed they are 100% waterproof even in a Scottish Winter but they lack breathability for hard physical activity and they are heavy so I have Gore-tex for hiking. Open pockets are always a no no though. Good video thanks. 🏴🇬🇧
Quick prices for anyone wondering:
Tom Beckbe Tensaw: $500
Flint & Tinder: $270
Carhartt super dux: $180-$200
Ship John Wills: $500
I can vouch for the wills jacket holding up really well. Spent an entire day over memorial day weekend in a torrential downpour and stayed dry. Love the jacket
Even the best gortex can get wet out in heavy rain, water repellent treatments to more affordable jackets is definitely something people should not write off.
Cowboyed in a 3/4 length Dri-as-Bone for years. Never a leak! Later in my career, I wore a full length Filson tin coat. Again, never a leak.
wax cotton jackets are good, specially a nice barber. its not just about water proofing though, it's about wind too. a jacket is useless if the wind just blows right through it, you still end up cold. barbers where for farmers originally because of their durability and became a fashion item because of the cost, and stylish looks.
Excellent video as always! I do believe that it is obvious that a hat test is a must. I am so glad that I stumbled upon this channel.
Awesome! Thank you! That hat is a game changer, and I think its better than the Filson version overall.
Timber faller here. I power was my tin cruiser. Maybe a tiny bit of water gets in. But it could be thru the collar or button holes. But not enough to worry about. That’s laying it flat on the driveway and blast it buttoned up then flipping it.
I have an old duster or long packer that is double layered. Never gotten water in. Solid equipment
As a Scots man I can assure you that the one and only hunting jacket I trust in any weather is Barbour. Trying to use something of lesser quality as a substitute is sacrilege once a year i re wax my jacket of 9+ years I've spent maybe £30 on wax and it is completely watertight if you want I will go do the exact same test and I will be completely bone dry
Speaking from experience, the Barbour needs to be relatively well waxed. After a year of waxing, the rain resistance begins to fade, especially on pockets, and on shoulders. So you gotta actually wax those things periodically.
I wore my fairly new Barbour Ashby jacket one fall afternoon doing yard work and got poured on by a rain storm, but I continued since I was already in the middle of the job. The jacket and seams held up nicely without any leaks in the shoulders or anywhere else. My only complaint is that Barbour uses a nylon sleeve lining in the Ashby jacket that doesn't breath at all. Any minor activity such as walking while wearing the jacket results in sweaty, clammy arms. I will say that getting the outside of the Ashy jacket completely soaked in the pouring rain and then hanging it to dry in the house really helped with the development of patina.
Really good to see how well the Flint & Tinder did
Stay hydrated Carl 👍🏼
Lol! I'll try!!
Living in the UK (an 5 mins from the Barbour factory), I love my Barbour waxed Northumbria jacket. 10years in, and several heavy customisations, I've re-waxed it twice and have paid very close attention during the process to get those top seams and collar for EXACTLY the reason you mentioned re: the Allen Edmonds jacket. Mine used to spend many rainy weekends shooting, but has an easier life overall now.
Love my Tom Beckbe Tensaw Jacket!
I've had 3 Barbour jackets and they all leaked, even after I'd re-waxed them. The last one I bought was brand-new, when I was in Connemara - I went walking on the beach in it that night in heavy rain and came home soaked to the skin. The only one that didn't leak was a short black biker's jacket, which I think was either Barbour or Belstaff.
Great video!! Unfortunately no Barbour jacket, but nice to see that waxed jackets can stand an downpour. And seams can be waxed to seal from water.
Wax jackets were regulatory in the UK shooting community up in till 15 to 20 years ago but now it's all goretex and Wax for fashion.
I have a Barbour of 30 year old, had it sent back to the factory to have it overhauled totally, waxed again and it is as new again. The repair was twice as expensive as a new one :)
I live a couple blocks away from Ship John and tried on that jacket and holy hell that’s a thick and stiff jacket. I couldn’t wear it but I have a waxed canvas hat from them I love. Great company
MANNN, all of these jackets look spectacular🙌🙌🙌😆
Great video. Will have to start shopping for a waxed jacket.
Me who just recently moved to Oregon and the rainy season will start soon: looks like I have a valid excuse now
I always found that waxed jackets ar more a fashion accesory than actually water reppelent workwear. If you wax them enough to be water proof then they don't breath at all and you get really sweaty.
I have a Drizabone (Australian) 15 y.o. reproofed 3 times in that period and still it keeps me bone dry in heavy weather. Can't beat 'em!!
Nice test. I'm the proud owner of the Flint & Tinder. I love the look and feel of that jacket, but I wouldn't consider it a rainwear. Still, I was happy to see how it performed in your video!
JACKETS IN THIS VIDEO:
-Super Dux Traditional Coat: bit.ly/39Iw7Pc
-Tom Beckbe Tensaw: bit.ly/2QpCo8w
-Flint & Tinder Waxed Trucker: prf.hn/l/7EvkaOo
-Ship John Wills: shipjohn.us/products/thewillsjacket
**Some other great waxed jackets here:
-Freenote Cloth: bit.ly/3ynU1eJ
-Rogue Territory: bit.ly/3uzs82h
-3 Sixteen: bit.ly/3In5KP8
What about the waxed jacket you did? And love the vids you put out.
Felt more like an advert for a waxed jacket test inserted in a endless programme flogging ‘courses’
Awesome video!!! How about the same video but with the Barbour (Bedale or Belfort), the Filson Clover, Filson mackinaw, and Filson hats….. please????
Excellent idea! Definitely going to make that.
Finally got your Ship John??
Hey Carl that looks cold 🥶
My Fjallraven Forest Jacket No. 3 works fairly well here in Portland. It is a pure hunting jacket that is British military wool with waxed cloth pockets, shoulders, arm patches and back. Very heavy weight. I don't know how it would stand up to a one minute drenching, but for the occasional downpour it hasn't failed me yet. I use the NorthFace Mountain Parka if I am really expecting to get wet. The Barbour waxed hunting jacket Bond wore in Skyfall looks cool and it does have a hood and storm flap. I believe it is discontinued and the updated version lacks the storm flap and hood.
I have a lot of Filson Tin Cloth and Shelter Cloth jackets and had a couple pair of Tin brush pants and Double Tin pants that I shredded with use. Even while new, after hours of upland bird hunting in heavy wet brush, or hours of working/hunting/walking outside in the rain or wet snow, they all soaked through... A few of the hunting coats are approaching 20 years old and have been heavily rewaxed multiple times (melted in with a heat gun). In cooler / cold weather I wear a wool Filson vest under them and that keeps them feeling OK even if they soak through... but the already heavy coats weigh a ton when they are soaking wet! I'm Okay with that as the protection from the thorns, brush, rocks, tree branches, tools, logs, firewood rounds, wind, and other things that attack me is still there. I also have an Orvis waxed "rain coat" that soaks through almost instantly... at best it's a foggy day coat, not a rain coat.
For walking around in more urban settings my Tin Packer coat and Tin Packer hat keep me pretty dry for many hours.... I think the difference is that when I'm just walking around I'm not constantly flexing the material and nothing is touching it. I equate it to a canvas tent... they are quite water proof in the rain until you, or something else, touches the canvas... then you have a drip!
All that said, I find that when I'm engaged in physical exertion I get wet regardless of the material. It's either the rain/wet snow soaking through or the perspiration accumulating inside. That includes Gor-tex, various coated nylons, sheet plastics, etc. The most water resistant and comfortable "rain coat" I have is a Sierra Designs Hurricane jacket. It's great for walking around but I imagine it would be shredded in no time if I used it for hunting or work.
Yes ! in heavy shower you end up by embrace the rain. All garments we have are "only" water retardant, but, at the end all is wet from a manner or the other. As we know it the best is to have garments which dry fast or to be warmy wet.
Got a waxed jacket in Ireland in 89, finally rewaxed it 2 years ago
On my motorcycle, I wear aa Aerostich "Falstaff" waxed cotton jacket. Fantastic for waterproof and wind resistance. Expensive at $700 bucks but worth it- and made in the US.
DWR is used on Goretex jackets as well as pretty much all membrane and coated waterproof jackets (taped seam jackets). It is used to stop the outer fabric wetting out as that dramatically reduces breathability .
If you want a very different waterproof system look at Paramo which uses a DWR and an inner fabric which behaves like animal fur and pushes the water out again by surface tension. The breathability is vastly better than GTX but it does have drawbacks like requiring regular proofing and is heavier and warmer than GTX style waterproofs (not a problem in winter).
@TRIG POINT I got my first Paramo jacket in 1992 when it had been out about a year and have been using various generations ever since. Some people don't like it and it doesn't suit them but to say it is garbage is nonsense and you see loads of Paramo jackets worn out and about.
It is by far the most breathable waterproof and the only thing that I've found rivals it for breathability is Ventile double layer cotton but that has drawbacks.
And there are plenty of retailers that still stock Paramo but they are small independent retailers.
You are welcome to come back in a year's time and prove me wrong but I'm pretty sure that you won't.
For info I have also used pretty much every generation of Goretex since the late 1980s including the more breathable Active versions designed for runners, Event, and a whole host of proprietary brands including some of the less well known stuff in the UK like Dermizax (though not the NX version ). I haven't used Polartec Neo shell which is supposed to be the most breathable of the membrane waterproof materials.
Sadly, though not the best, Goretex has the best advertising budget and people ask for it because it is what they have heard of, so manufacturers drop better materials as they don't sell as well.
It really depends how often you re wax the clothing. Just liked modern DWR. It sounds like the older jacket was not rewaxed.
Missed out on Filson?
Waxing the seams extra thoroughly when re waxing your jacket is important, Because of how much fabric there is and the stitching that goes through all the layers.
If it’s not sealed the wax will transport the beads of water into all the nooks and crannies of the seam which ain’t good.
No doubt about that!
i've already given up on waxed jackets years ago. in my city, half of the year is raining & the average annual rainfall intensity is a total of 2,200cm or more. in my experience, waxed jackets are only good for very light drizzles (in which case you might as well don't need weather protection) or gives you 10 minutes of water resistance before you find shelter.
i used to wear a waxed jacket for the style, but now i wear synthetic materials for true waterproof.
Bummer now I feel silly when I wear my over priced " look at me" jacket....
Weight room paying off. Looking solid dude.
Thanks bro!
I have a waxed jacket. Pretty much agree. Great for getting from the car to the shops, or maybe walking the dog around the block. Drizzle wear. Not serious out in the rain all day wear. (Sidenote I have a positively ancient shelter half poncho for serious outdoor rain work)
Water resistance is based on how much wax is used, as well as canvas weight and weave. I use both purchased and hand waxed clothing and other items. But I use it more for durability, not really water resistance. I go through regular canvas in a few months. Waxed lasts significantly longer for me, even lightly waxed. A lot of wax can be quite water resistant but uncomfortable for every day. When it rains, I just use a rain jacket.
The main reason for a wax jacket is the abuse they can take that GoreTex and the like cannot. Brambles, thorns, barbed wire, etc. A GoreTex jacket wouldn’t last a day. Waxed jackets are far more resilient Heavy waxed jackets will stand up on their own when cold and will get clammy inside when working but they will last many years.
Ideally they should have raglan sleeves so there’s no shoulder seam to leak. Also most have large pockets for crap. Tools, hats, knives, flashlights etc. Longer ones will normally have a hood that’s usually snapped on.
Barbour are great but have gotten prohibitively expensive for abusing when new. There’s very good quality jackets from Hoggs of Fife, Regatta, Rydale etc. for a fraction of the price that you don’t mind getting covered in mud and dog hair.
I have a motorcycle style one that I wear around town sometimes and a couple of beaters for at home. A long “Beaufort” style (Hoggs Woodsman) and a Drizabone Brumby short jacket (like a Carhartt Detroit but waxed).
When you need to beat the crap out of a jacket, nothing comes close.
I kinda wish you had covered Barbour and Belstaff jackets here, though appreciate you're wearing American brands while I'm British. That Flint & Tinder trucker is a beauty in every colour they make it and has been on my radar for a while.
You should do a results/conclusions section at the end that recaps your verdicts on each, gives the pros & cons of each and then ends with your recommendation
Since this was not mentioned i want to clarify that Goretex is NOT waterproof, DWR (wich is applied to goretex) and sealing tape (which is put on the seam of Goretex jackets) are (both are easily accessible and you can technically put on anything), Gore-tex is a fabric that allows "waterproofness" to breath better, the more waterproof something is, the less body moisture is able to exit out, like rubber rain boots or PVC rain coats that fog, water will basically never enter, but your sweat has nowhere to exit out of either, BUT it is important to know that Goretex is not something anyone can just buy to make jackets, to be able to sell a jacket with their fabric they need to approve it's constructed properly to make the most out of it, so it is somewhat a sign of quality if authentic
My flint and tinder ( same jacket ) does well in wet English conditions. The belstaffs are something else though mate . Top notch . Cracking video as always.
Oh man, I DEFINITELY want to try Belstaff!
@@CarlMurawski the trial master is the bollocks pal . Very very well made .
Belstaff, The motor bike kit for those who want to stay dry !
If it does not have a stormflap and zip it is posers gear !
Atsko Extreme Waterguard. A gallon is about $60. Use a spray bottle to apply, and it waterproofs anything.
Honestly, I gave up waxing my stuff. It looks cool, but isn't nearly waterproof enough, and does need a lot of maintenance to keep it truly waterproof.
One thing about them jackets, as a hunter/fisherman water will go down your face, then neck and into your body. Happened more than once, that's how I mostly get wet in real world conditions. 🌧
Almost put my Will’s on today, but still not cool enough for it. It held up all fall, winter, and most of spring in Maine. I am a huge fan of ShipJohn stuff so I can’t wait for your review, bummer Mike wouldn’t do an interview. Great Video Carl!!! Go dry off before the pats game 😆
Very committed to making videos!
such a great science experiment, this one really has the gears in my head churning!!!!
Incredibly jealous you have a Ship John jacket. I’ve been trying to buy one for half a year easily
Carl...tx for this video. You mentioned all of the coates have about the same amount of wear but when was the last time that you had each of the wax cotton versions retreated?
Thanks for all your great videos Carl! Waiting on your review on the the Wills :) I was lucky to get one on ebay, old model with the leather patch on the chest pocket. I belive the newer models are sized different. The xxl-long old size fits me perfect, love it :)
Do it again with a Barbour, I want to see if they’re worth the money or if it’s just a brand
Just a brand. I have three and none of them are waterproof
@@jonathancornelius6441 why’d you buy three?
Clicked so fast
Dwp is the coating on the synthetic jacket, which is a PFAS -called a forever chemical and are linked with serious health issues.
Given fluoropolymers’ extreme persistence, emissions associated with their production, use, and disposal, and high likelihood for human exposure to PFAS, their production and uses should be curtailed except in cases of essential use.
Ill stick with my waxed jacket, especially since my du Pont one failed! The forever chemical came off and is now down a drain somewhere!
Why no Barbour test? I have my Beadale like 30 years. Just had it re waxed by Barbour for $35
Would like to see a follow up video after you re-coat the Allen-Edmonds jacket with wax
Thats a good idea!
Should have rated them on a scale sir, now I have to re watch and write notes.
Good idea, my apologies!
Great video! Expand this to other waxed products like duffel bags, shoulder bags, backpacks, and camera bags.
It would be nice to finish off with a comparison chart of the jackets and your evaluation....maybe a simple checkmark system or number rating.
Honestly, I was a bit surprised not to see a Filson Tin Cloth jacket here. That aside, waxed cotton usually fails at the seams. I keep on adding more until it no longer soaks in.
Probably the "best" waxed cotton jacket I've come across was the TAD Talisman. Could be the Haley Stevenson wax or it's construction but I have spent hours in the rain and remained dry.
Maybe a good second edition of this comparison!
No Filson was my first thought too. Love my Tin Cloth.
Gore-Tex actually isn't water repellent, these jackets are also having a DWR finish that also should be renewed from time to time.
As someone who lives in Ketchikan, one of the rainiest places on earth... DWR sucks. It wears off so fast.
I have a filson double tin coat and it’s quite water resistant. I recently got a Fjallraven jacket that I’ve waxed myself. Two layers of wax and it still has areas where water soaks thru. I’m going to give it a third coat so hopefully that will be a bit better, but so far I can’t claim that the Fjallraven is a great rain coat. However it works great as a shell in light snow and wind and cold.
goretex is generally not the water repellant we see on jackets (through bare goretex will repel water a good bit). goretex is mainly waterproof. they apply a breathable DWR coating (that isnt goretex) on the surface to repell water :)
The only version of goretex that is really repellant is the "shake dry"
Goretex is a membrane of expanded PTFE usually bonded to a nylon face fabric, the dwr coating is there to stop the fabric wetting out so the goretex can remain breathable.
Try this with x-pac material next
Great video editing wish you the best
All rain gear leaks eventually I'm a field geologist and on a long rainy day working in the bush, all of it leaks or you soak in your own sweat.
We used to call Gore Tex, Leaktex........ Even the high quality goretex garments.
I'm guessing the leaking shoulder seams are because the jacket was made from cloth that was already waxed, and not waxing the coat as a finished item. Therefore there was no wax worked into the seams.
Very true! Good observation
Carl, how water resistant was your hat? I love it
It was pretty good! There are vent holes though, and some water got in there...
Yeah, what are you wearing in the video?
Would have been a good idea to weigh the jackets before and after to compare how much water the jackets absorbed
I would have liked to see a test done on a couple of other popular and established brands like Driza-Bone and Barbour. I once found a Driza-Bone cowboy style long jacket with the separate shoulder blanket thing literally half buried in a driveway. I don't know how long it had been there but it must have been quite a while. I don't like that cowboy look for a jacket. So I cut off the shoulder blanket thing and then took it to a tailor and had them cut it down to a 3/4 length instead. I then made my own wax dressing from an unused toilet wax donut, bees wax, and white paraffin wax from some candles I had. I then heated up the mixture till it was liquid and stirred it thoroughly then applied it to the coat and it did a great job of waterproofing it. I just bought a 100% cotton Kuhl jacket and a bar of Otter wax. I had issue getting the wax to both cover the whole coat and do so evenly. It would need at least 2 5oz bars to apply enough wax to the jacket properly and it was a pain in the ass to scrub the wax bar over the whole thing. I have all sorts of areas that it isn't on thick enough that I would expect it to work all that well. So, I am going to either buy the tin of otter wax dressing or a can or two of Barbour wax dressing which goes on the same way from being melted.
Also, one point to mention regarding something like Gore-Tex compared to a waxed cotton is that waxed clothing doesn't breathe. I remember it being like wearing a rubber or plastic waterproof coat where I would sweat so much during moderate to heavy activity to the point where I was just as wet on the inside from the sweat that I wouldn't have been much wetter if I wore a windbreaker instead. And I wouldn't have been as uncomfortable as I was hot and sweaty either. But I do love wax cotton jackets, they last 3 times as long as un waxed ones do, and in winter they keep out the wind too. Plus, I like the way they look as well.
Great video loved it. Would love to see a barbour review as out in the uk its probably the most common go to wax jacket and costing how much they do it would be nice to know if its worth it
My super dux absorbs water like crazy and its brand new.
Maybe it's time to wax the beard. Great demo Carl!
I liked that flint and tinder . Also have you tried any of those sealants for clothes or homemade wax concoctions?
I've only used Otter Wax, and I think that will have to be included in the next comparison.
How do these products handle breathability? From my experience that was the biggest issue I found with a lot of waxed products.
100% agreed. The breathability definitely suffers.
With unlined wax jackets you really have to properly layer them, because by its nature wax jackets or not very breathable. And there’s nothing colder in the winter or warmer in the summer then a waxed jacket over a light shirt.
This video could also be titled “What it’s really like to be in the Marine Corps” because of the fact that during an otherwise sunny day a downpour will find its way to be EXACTLY where you are
Try Driza-Bone.
Second mention of them here. I definitely will!
Nice work on that great video
Thank you! Cheers!
Have you ever considered the Walker and Hawkes brand? It's a cheaper hunting focused brand from the UK, and they have a variety of quite affordable waxed cotton jackets in the $50 - $150 range (if you by direct and not from amazon)
What about Barbour and Filson?
They would have been great to include, but I only used what I currently own.
Gréât idea and video I would have love to know if Barbour is worth the hype or not .....maybe next time😉
Next time!
Can you do a review of your White's Smokejumpers.
The Wills jacket looks amazing!! But dang, I thought Filson was expensive.
No doubt, plus getting one is so tricky.
God dammit Bobby what did I say about waxing your jackets during the funeral
How come you did not test a Barbour Product? …or a Henry Lloyd? Sailing jackets are made for hours of downpours and look stylish too.
Mostly because I dont currently own any.
Most impressed with the hat. What was it again and do u have a link?
That hat is awesome. Its from Tom Beckbe: bit.ly/3aTrxNL