This is why older cabs sound WAY BETTER
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
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You should swap the speakers from one cab to the other and retest. Would be pretty darn interesting see how much of the sound differences come from the speakers and what comes from the cab itself
it's almost all the speakers. check out Johan Segeborn to see just how much the speaker is the main culprit to tone.
That room mic placement really picks up the balls of the tone 😂
Room micing picks up more resonance
I see what you did there😂.
I didn't know why this was funny until around 6 or so mins into the video. Well played good sir/ma'am.
These cabs would sound great together as a blend.
I think overall, the new cab is simply more recordable. You can always take away some of the harshest of the high end in post, but you cant add it with the old cab. And that's all while saying that I massively prefer the old cab in just a pure isolated, home guitar tone. I feel the old cab would probably just sound too dark, though there's obvious ways you could maybe alleviate it with mic placement or even mic type(though a 57 is already pretty bright-focused).
@maynardburger the thickness and increased low end would easily be replicated just by double tracking. The old cab double tracked would he better. You can remove some of the mid and treble in the 2nd track and keep the 1st track normal. Allowing you to blend and still hear mids while increasing bottom end.
I bet they sound awesome both at the same time
After watching so many speaker comparisons, I honestly think most of what we are hearing is inconsistent production on speakers. Even speakers from a single production run can vary significantly.
There are also the differences between "new" drivers and broken in drivers. This can also vary significantly from speaker to speaker.
Then, you have any number of variables in cabinet construction, materials, bracing, and packing. Anything can change across decades of production.
I have been really lucky with speaker cabinets over the years. The only bad sounding cabs I ever owned were very early in my growth curve as a "musician." Beyond that, it's just a matter of matching the right cab to the right amp.
Interestingly enough even every 57 sounds different as well. There's no such thing like 2 things sound exactly the same.
@@ThyFinalPaintested this - 1 db tolerance between my newer ones. So very close. 1 sample though.
Yep, speakers are a very annoying crapshoot. I have preferences, but these preferences are very tenuous cuz they can absolutely differ heavily based on the set you get. And it's not just like some minor little differences, but drastic differences that can mean one speaker sounds nothing at all like another that's supposed to be the exact same type. It's why I maintain that if you find a cab/speakers you love, HOLD IT FOR DEAR LIFE.
@@maynardburger, you are absolutely right. That is again another huge variable. We've all seen/heard the V30 comparisons. They sound radically different from one production run to another. Not even counting component and material changes. It almost is like a crap shoot when shopping speaker cabs.
That grind kicked in at 1:00, sold me on the old cab
Team old cab here
I can’t help but wonder what would happen if you tighten up the screws. Also I wonder what would happen if you did a full speaker swap between the two cabs. Something like this would need to be recorded at each step to verify tone changes. I bet some interesting results would come from this.
100!%. Speaker screws always come loose on these. I've even had some speaker screws sitting at the bottom of the cab. I bet anything the old cab will tighten up and probably even get brighter with the baffle and speaker screws tightened up. And yeah, swap those speakers so we can really tell what's going on
The cabs from 900 series have thinner wires and face cloth. Repacing the wires with the thicker gauge makes a large difference.
Please do a video before and after you do the adjustment on the old cab curious to hear if it makes the difference
plan on it!
My 1983 Laney Pro-Tube 4x12 w/ Fanes agrees, it kills any other cabinet I've tried for the past 37 years that I've owned it. Solid MDF too.
Yeah the differences are significant!
I particularly like the sound of the older cab.
If both cabs are using T75´s then thats a huge difference.
Definitely a difference. I Definitely think you should tighten up the old cab and make a sequel video. Also, I really liked the 7 string into the new cab.
Good points on checking hardware inside. Once you find a good cab, go through everything with titebond on wood screws and loc tight on speaker screws. Also with Marshall cabs, put a center screw in the back panel. Never hurts to add some insulation too.
Old cabs were probably were constructed better, now they just want to save labor. They were also constructed with better materials, now they want to use the minimal amount for "good enough".
Also, it seems that older speakers were constructed with better materials, see 2005 onwards V30s, a nightmare!
Also, the amount of hours played, breaks in the speakers, and this plays a huge difference!!!
I'd love to see a comparison for two new identical cabs, where one gets broken in at ear splitting volumes, against an out of the box cab!!!
💯
Yup. I took a look inside my 5’ tall 1970’s Sunn 412 tower, and the structure looks like a fancy hotel without the doors.
That's not really true. A lot of old Marshall's were made eith mdf and sometimes lower quality birch ply. I've made many clones of the 1960 a and b and have looked at quite a few originals. Honestly marshall just kind of made them with whatever material they had laying around.
@@clarkkotte3069. Is birch ply a better wood for these cabs than MDF or nah?
@@clarkkotte3069Marshall is not an epitome of anything... and certainly not a benchmark of quality!
There are other brands, almost as old that made/make things with quality. Orange, Hiwatt, Mesa, and plenty of others.
Definitely a fan of the older cab!
Cool that you busted out the strat on this.
Had a little bit of an HM2 vibe with the high mids low and savage cranked up
Once the new one breaks in sounds like it will be awesome.
Old cab sounds like the new one with all the irritating frequencies eq’d out. Much more pleasing to listen to.
My silver label Sunn 4 x 12 tower still dooms and chugs hard for a 50 year old cab!
I'm a HUGE fan of mid-late 90's Marshall 1960 Vintage cabs with V30s. They're all I want to play lol. I'm amassing a collection of them.
There's something special about that era of 16-ohm V30... I definitely recommend checking them out.
This topic has been interesting to me as of late. In specific with v30s and all the variations.
The Other John Browne's video he did sent me down the rabbit hole. I did a test myself and found one of the late 2021/early 2022 v30s with the "magic batch code" on the cone and its a huge difference between it and my 2017 v30 which has seen quite a bit of play time. The one from March 2022 is a lot less fizzy and harsh sounding.
Im patiently awaiting his test where he breaks one in by looping riffs through it for a set period of time vs a fresh one of the same era.
So to have like cabs, stir the speakers for recording, pick one speaker and always use that one speaker. This is what I took from this. Thanks Kyle. I have some speakers to swap and screws to tighten.
Pull the speakers out of the old one and swap them to the other cab.
Real Time Analyzer & a 31 band Equalizer, and you can get those two cabs to sound almost any way you want. Hey? Nobodies done a video on that yet? You can get ahead of Jim Lill if you hurry !
I'd like it if you put your cabinet videos in a Playlist so they're easier to binge watch.
I'm looking for a 412 for a bigger sound than my combos and learning from you. Used 412 for around $150 my target. Apparently ply better than mdf learned so far
hellyeah nice one. Did a similar experiment at home with 2 v30 in tthe same cab - but the sound difference was quite like night and day. I chose one and send one backl
Yep, exactly same experience here with my old beat up toured 4x12 (1960 as well), and newer not so broken in 2x12 (1936) with same speakers. Night and day. Old one so much more open and nice to listen to.
I think they both sound great. Maybe the older one sounds better. Thanks again, Kyle.
I had a 2001 MESA OS (THE year) cab and it was so stiff, hard to listen to.... and while it should have been "golden" did not sound as warm and buttery as a 2005 MESA OS cab which had many hours of use, touring etc. Love the video
I found an '03 in the height of the pandemic and it has "the tone." Also had a '06 T4335B that had the tone too. Go figure!
The old cab with the 7-string was crazy good sounding. I’m curious how a blend of both cabs would fare, especially in a recording environment.
I commented on your how Mesas sound different and said I did not like any of them on my end. Now both these cabs and head sound great! I just didn't want you to think I am a hater lol.
both sound pretty good as soon as your ears adjust, every time they switch it sounds weird for a second until you get used to it.
I think for different uses each could work, it’s really context dependent. Can’t say I really liked the room mic, it just sounded like if you were trying to show me an amp through a telephone 😂 close mic’d sm57 is a much better benchmark IMO
I happened to play into a 90s 1960A cab at a gig back in June. It was a nice sound , a little different than I was used to. Not better or worse than my main cab but better than some of my cabs
Can you make some cab irs using that old cab?? That sounds absolutely killer!
Great video Man (as always). My late 80s flat fronts sound way better than mid 2000s I have. Both good but different. I think its the birth of Thrash metal mojo trapped inside, priceless it is!! Keep the metal coming Kyle, love the channel!!!!
Wow that old cab sounds ace
Would have liked for you to have dug into the cabs and had a look.
owner of a 1960B cab of the JCM800 era (date code on the speakers suggests 1983). i also found that they sound quite different from the newer ones, despite being the same speaker type.
definitely a huge tone difference but both sound incredible for different uses!!
quick way to break in them speakers on the new cab is just take sandpaper to cone a little. it will soften up the cone and give them that "worn" sound.
Johan Segeborn did a video on this battling old Greenbacks vs new ones.
@@howardgillingham4763 just seeing this, but the thing is, that only breaks them in a smidge. All the speakers that are REALLY broke in have been being used at loud* volumes for YEARS. So unless you have a time machine to increase the usage, sandpaper is a quick fix if you NEED more "vintage" tones.
One sounds like crazy train, one sounds like no more tears.
while the new one probably just needs broken in, the old cab sounds WAYYYYY better even if it has loose screws, it reminds me of the old beat up marshall cab i had, the grill cloth was so torn one of the speakers was exposed lol but the g12t75's are underrated
Good choice with the room mic. I think perhaps with that other speaker cab shootout the room mic wasn’t picking up the Mesa as good as it was the cab with the WGS speakers. The Mesa sounded really dark in that video.
It sounded really dark in comparison to the Mojotone period. That cab is insanely bright with those WGS speakers that were in it
Excellent idea
Also interested how the difference would be with a covered blanket over the cabs. The sound is very tight and more compressed on my setup with a blanket on the 412.
Why would you put a blanket over it?
The new cab sounds way more scooped and has this top end sssssss present throughout
Both cabs sound great, but different to each other. That’s the joy of variety.
Find the sound for the situation.
Excellent job and great idea on this one. You could say the same is true for any piece of gear you hear in a demo in that it most likely sounds completely different in another person's hands. Even same amp to same amp sounds different just like guitars do. Even little stuff, like try playing Van Halen the way you normally hold a pick and then hold the pick like he does, it sounds a lot more like Ed. For real! Cheers! 🤘
Coheed!!!
Lets take a moment to appreciate that guitar
It has become a Kyle Bull icon, hasn't it?
@@JoelCSabo yeah it looks killer can’t go wrong with silver burst on that shape
I appreciate it for what it is but hate that shape 😅
@@kevinerickson84 oh I love explorers
@@NinecoreNeil I love v's lol
Well, I won't say the older one sounds better. I rather would say that the new one would sound superior with the mic placed a little bit more towards the edge of the cone to tame the harshness a bit.
09:49 fantastic tone
Have you seen the demo of the bass plugin from nolly? His guitar tone sounds like one you would love
My 2 - 4x12's seem to have a mind of their own.. one loaded with Man O War's and Governors in X pattern.. with CANE grill cloth which blocks some highs.. sometimes DARK ..sometimes BRIGHT.. my other is a Marshall 1960B loaded with SCUMBACK MB75 and M75 (blackback and greenback models).. and she does the same thing other than the vintage checkerboard cloth which lets more highs out.. my Splawn and my 5150 old school just sound different on different days through these 2 cabs.. well paired though i must say.. no rhyme or reason for it.
That new one sounds like it needs years of tar build up from smoky clubs to kill that fizzy top end and give it some real charm. :D
Good idea for a video. I would appreciate more speaker comparisons. Old cab was definitely better. That new one was a Fizz Fest. But I wouldn’t want either. I feel the GHT-75 is the worst speaker in the history of sound😅.
I have to puke everytime I hear that fizzy harshness of the 75s. I hate them with a passion! 😅
@@Gearslayer92 You're right. Had a Laney Cab with them. Couldn't get rid of it fast enough. However the 75s are a close second to me.
Could you tell us from what year your speakers in the old cab are?
Really nice mid Frequencies.
The new one sounds hollow and fizzy
Can you revisit this comparison after fixing up the old cab?
You've used the Feathers riff in a couple demos now.
Old cab sounded better over all, but i think the new one sounded better on that coheed riff and with 7 string.
GET IT ON, my chigga boo!!!
Great video!
Nice video. I prefer the new cab. It sounds less boxy.
New one sound much better
Generally newer gear = lower hours.
Similarly to paint, the various materials in most speakers will also offgas and "dry" over time.
I just bought a 2004ish Carvin 4x12 with g12t75s & it sounds Bri'ish & warm for what it is. It used to live under a modded 70s Ampeg V4.
No fizz anywhere & the Carvins are front loaded. Poplar vs Birch. But even after giving all the screws a tightening it sounds like, well, a Marshall cab.
Generally new = bright & tight, older = mellow, amongst things of a kind.
I own an 83' Laney 100w Pro Tube (Pre AOR) head with the original 4x12 cab with original Fane speakers. Compared to the new Mesa Mk7, I prefer the Laney. Nothing will make me get rid of this thing.
Hey Kyle, i reckon itd be good to see you test the old "detuned" cab thing: removing 2 of the speakers in a 4x12. Apparently it significantly alters the response of the cab
Havent heard of this before. Can you explain more? Where you heard of this technique?
Is there an estimate of a break in period for speakers? The older cab is a sleeper and with the right tweaks it'd be perfect for gigging.
I've never heard anyone put an actual number on it. Anyway when I bought my first Mesa cabinet I was honestly not impressed. I felt it was a waste of money. Then like 3 weeks later I played it and it sounded amazing. I was like wtf? I guess there is a break in period
It’s like any speaker ! Like say BIG CAR SOUND !!!! Same deal ! You can’t just get in and blast the shit out of the speakers…….They will blow ! Same approach here ! Cheers mate 🤘🔥💥🇦🇺🇺🇸
A test I'd like to see... or rather hear? ...Is there a noticeable difference between the 4 speakers in the same cab through when you put the 57 in front of each one?
Totally agree-the old cab sounds way better in the midrange and not so ear-piercing.I have a Gt75 from the 80‘s and that sounds way better than a 2000 to my ears🤘
Probably is the new one hasn't broken in the speakers yet...both sound fine
I'm intrigued, this kind of difference would show in an impulse response made with the two cabs?
Some people argue until they know. This shows what all us Tone snobs know. We ain't dicks...we just know. It's not cork sniffing...it's called "tone". Alot of the new celestion IRs have that metallic raspiness of the newer speakers. It's almost like tattoo machine clatter behind the tone.
Its incredible how different they sound. As if they hat completely diffrent speaker.
Question: can you use a fretwrap or something similar on the 7 string? The stringnoises on this thing makes me mad 😜
Out of curiosity, what year is the older cab from?
Does the old one have the white back G12T75s? Vented or unvented?
I’m not a fan of the newer G12T75s. My current favorite blend in V30s and WGS ET65s in an X and I love it! I also have an old Butcher cab with the OG G12K85s in an X with some V30s. Both will absolutely crush!
My first somewhat serious rig involved a Marshall 1960A 4x12 and honestly, I hated my tone. I was regular drown out by crappy 4x12's from others. Thing is, back then(this was the 90's), I was too ignorant to understand why this was happening. I thought it was the amp. I tried a few different amps with the cab, and it always sucked. I thought, "The 1960A is an iconic, super popular cab for rock/metal, it's amazing". But one day I hooked up my amp to somebody else's cab and the difference was night and day. At that point I realized how important cab+speakers were.
The new cab is crisp and precise while the old cab is warmer with less highs
Try break the new cab speakers and compare again to see if it sounds better
cheers
The old one sounds way better to me. I didnt think it sounds flabby at all. The new one still has that high end harshness from the unbroken in speakers. Do they both have g12t75s?
If you’ve only got about an hour through the new cab, those speakers are not even close to being broken you know that right😮
Nnoooo wwwaaayyyyyyyy 🤯🤯👽👽
in this particular case i can speak about this argument with consciousness. i have an old g12t-75 16 ohm from the nineties and a chinese newer 8 ohm. even if i put them on semi open cab of my combos there is no comparison on how better sounding is my older 75. nwer 75s are fizzy as hell with a spike on 5khz that can be tamed by post eq but they lack mids in comparison with the older uk 75.
Age of the speakers are the difference.
Older Cab by miles lol but that's cause its speakers has the proper "broken in time". Players seem to think you need loads of hours, that's untrue. Only need 10 hrs to properly break in your speakers. Cabs obviously might take you a little bit longer depending on your place of practice/volume level, but that's about it. Sure there's a couple little things to help speed up the process, personally wouldn't though, was taught that method (10 hr) back when I was in my 2nd year of playing (24th now, 17th as a Luthier/Technician)
Hey man, I am curious about the Morgan MVP23 amp but I can’t find a video where anyone is playing a high gain distortion pedal through it. They are supposed to be super clean clones of Matchless amps and apparently take to pedals really well, but every demo is a midlife crisis dad playing blues. Can you demo that one with some chunk, bro?
Is the new one broken in?
Clearly not
add highs to the old cab OR lower it on the new one and people wont notice
I like the old cabinet sound better like there's my jcm 900 1936 cab I love that thing with my Marshall amp it's more of a studio my speaker you know but you can play it on stage and sounds very clear you get these new ones they sell boxy or little bit more midi too thick that is full range
The old cab sounds better but as a whole that's not really saying much. They both sound clunky and not quite "chuggy" enough for my liking. It sounds like there's something in there that kinda chokes out the sound.
Your oldest Marshall cabs only go back to 70s blackbacks?! No pulsonic cone, vintage greenbacks?! 😢
I'm not sure "better" is true. Both sound good, but a little different. A lot of comments prefer the older cab. but I wonder how they would have chosen if Kyle just said cab A and cab B and revealed which was which a week later. The new cab has a more "modern" sound.
it's warmer
idk i might be weird but i like the new cab sound a bit more..
that old one has T75's? wow, based on what I hear on youtube, those speakers sound like shit. Those sound fucking GNARLY here!!! man I'll never make a new cab decision lol
Tried the fredman mic method?
Sure have! I get why some people love it, but I prefer a single sm57 to the smoother eq that the Fredman technique provides
@@belligerentamateur I'd be interested in hearing the difference between single SM57s and single 545SDs. The specs seem to indicate the 57s go down an extra 10 Hz but when those guys were at the Sweetwater gear thing the 545SDs actually sounded fuller. If you are ever bored please do a comparison.
The new cab sounded better with the down tuned guitar, old cab sounded better with everything else. Imo
How old we talking? Most of mine are 15-20 years old.