Your videos make it blatantly clear, that I am completely clueless when it comes to audio knowledge. With that said, I still thank you for the clear and complete presentations of the subject matter your cover. I always know more after watching than I did before. Well done!
I mean, this stuff is not your average audio knowledge, so it is absolutely fine to not know it. But it can come in handy when deciding on which mic to use, in a given situation. And it is great to hear that you learned something because that's what these videos are for ;)
@@RallenMan I wish I had a lot of audio knowledge. But honestly I don't. With Julian's precise, clear, & intelligent presentation style, I am learning.
Excellent video and very clear explanations Julian. Understanding mic specs including strengths and weaknesses of each is critical to choosing the right mic for any application!
My own practical tests with my own dynamic and condenser mics bear this out. What I "thought" would be the quite microphone, the dynamic, in fact was noisier than the condenser even when taking into account how much more sensitive the condenser was in comparison. Blew my mind!
Julian, thank you for all the great videos, they are the best theoretical explanations I've seen on RUclips, backed up by great experiments and tests. If I may ask you, could you do a Julian Krause style video on all the different dB types all the way from the mics/instrument thru the preamp, interface, daw and finally to the mastering? As a home studio musician I find it very difficult to understand all the levels, dB types, vu, lfs and always seem to be messing up the gain level in some stage. Thank you so much!
Very good video, I was aware of this having owned several dynamics and comparing with condensers, but the detail you delve into makes me keenly aware of my lack of intelligence when it comes to math and engineering :D
Very informative, first video I've seen on this subject. Awesome work and this never even entered my mind, to this extent. I figured there was some because of the mechanical movement between the voice coil and the magnet, just like in a speaker but not that much. Especially the Shure SM7B, wow same equivalent self noise as a medium self noise condenser microphone, like on my MXL 606. I know the preamps with higher gain and the cleaner audio the better, as always. Dynamic microphone equivalent self noise, is a great point to explore, thanks...
Would you consider making a video about the belief that dynamic microphones reject background noise better than condenser mics? I myself am an acoustic engineer and I can't recall any physical rule that would implicate this. I know that people observe this dependency, because they speak closer to dynamics. But when you take a dynamic cardioid and a condenser cardioid at the same distance and compensate the sensitivity difference with gain, there will be the same amount of room reverb or room noise. Of course, there is some subjective difference caused by different frequency responses and the high-frequency reverb might be easier to distinct from the source signal. Would you comment on this? Because although I know how it should be, the belief is so common that I'm losing my confidence on this.
Hey, your thoughts are absolutely valid. This is a very interesting and probably often misunderstood topic. There are some more things to consider, like the changing off-axis frequency response of different microphone types. I still have do do some more research before I can make a definite statement but I will make a full video about this topic. Thanks for the suggestion :)
Well, this was a year ago but I'll still comment that just today I did a few test recordings with 1) a large diaphragm condenser mic, 2) a small diaphragm condenser mic and 3) a dynamic instrument mic. I can tell you that after recording all three and normalizing the tracks to the same level, the background noise of my computer running close by and my air conditioner, is exactly the same. Or, well, same enough at least that it's not noticeable.
I kind of skipped around the video so I may have missed it, but I'd take into consideration that at least when I'm recording my voice, I tend to get a lot closer to a dynamic mic, than to a condenser, which would compensate for the lower sensitivity. Also, one type of noise can sound different than another type of noise even when matched for energy. So I guess you really have to actually try out different mics in different situations and listen to the results, as opposed to think too much about the theory behind equivalent noise levels.
So a dinamic mic with high sensitivity will have lower noice than less sensitive mics, right? are there good and affordable high sensitivity mics, like -30db sensitivy or similar?
Hi, Very good video explaining the noise level of certain type of microphones. Another parameter which we have to includes is the transmission noise'. which is the cable itself. It also picks EMI from surroundings. Dynamics microphone produces very small electric signal.. While travelling through cable it also mixed with surrounding EMI and it amplified by the preamp. Compared to condenser mic, the output signal is quite high and need lesser gain which also reduce the EMI noise.. So, it is wise to have short cable, to reduce the MI noise level. Please correct me, if I am wrong about it. Thank you very much.
Hey Julian, I wanted your take on buying a shure SM57 as a vocal mic. My room isn't acoustically treated and crickets start buzzing once the evening hits. But still I'm not sure using SM57 as a studio mic. HELP HELP HELP
Very interesting topic to tackle - I have not seen this addressed anywhere else...great job! One thing does confuse me, though. Julian, you quoted the SM7b sensitivity as -56.8, however, the spec sheets I find online quote it as -59.0 (1.12mV). Am I incorrect in trying to align the sensitivity figure you presented with the "Output Level" quoted in the spec sheet (this is most likely the case, as I am a relative amateur)? Or, did you measure a different number yourself in your own tests, than what is in the spec sheet?
Hey, I see you are paying attention :) But there is a small catch! The sensitivity of -59dB is referenced to 1 Volt. So, the unit is dBV. In my calculation I use dBu, so you have to convert dBV to dBu first. When you do that, you'll find that -59dBV roughly equals -56.8dBu. The sensitivity is still the same, it is just another unit in order to be able to calculate things properly. If you're interested in converting between dBu, dBV and Voltage, check out this website: www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db-volt.htm Cheers!
Hey, check out this part about impedance. There is is still a bit more to this topic, but this should get you started: ruclips.net/video/DGwm6llYv5g/видео.html
Nice video! Thanks for the technical insight! It’s nice to know for s(h)ure! Haha! Nice pun Julian! 😂👍 The question now is: How much does this difference in noise matter in the real world in the different use cases? When does this make a noticeable difference? Given how many professionals use and have used the SM7B, i dare say, that it’s not like the amount of noise out of the SM7B does matter THAT much and only in very specific situations and uses. For instance: Actually, it will be a mix of inherit mic and preamp noise AND environment noise. And talking about that will make a BIG difference for users with a badly or not at all audio treated room. But I trust, this is not an oversight.
Of course, the SM7B is still usable and the biggest factor which is determining if you will hear the noise, is how close you get the microphone. With the SM7B close to your mouth the noise is usually not a problem. But the further you get away from the mic, the more you have to turn up the gain and you will start to hear the self-noise. And I would argue, that the SM7B must be very close to a speaking person, if you want to have get a totally clean recording. So, with the ENL of 17 dBSPL(A) it is still possible to get clean recordings, but with the higher ENL the position of the mic gets more critical.
im working on finding situations where a dynamic microphone actually has lower equivalent noise (audio technica BP40?) than a condenser microphone. I'm also doing stupid tests with using 4x mic inputs Y'd together (each mic input is 10kohm, don't worry) to attempt to get the lowest noise possible.
Interesting, summing the signals from 4 inputs can give you a theoretical 6 dB of preamp noise improvement (3 dB per doubling of channels). Likely the mics self-noise is then going to be the limiting factor at that point. Theoretically one could also put multiple dynamic mics in parallel to lower their noise. Although this is likely going to end up in severe comb filtering as the capsule sized is relatively large and you can't get them physically close together. There are definitely cases where condenser mics are noisier than dynamics. Typically, cheap condensers can have around 25 dBSPL(A) of self-noise which is more than your typical dynamic mic.
In my experience, it really depends on how far away the microphone is. Given that dynamic microphones are less sensitive, typically they are used for more close-mic situations, and capture less reverb. Dynamics also tend to have hypercardioid patterns that are narrower.
That's actually a myth. Level matched, dynamics and condenser microphones pick up the same amount of background noise. The only thing that affects that in a microphone is polar pattern. Just turn down the gain and keep your mouth less than 6 inches from the front of the diaphragm of the mic, and you'll get the same effect.
Depends of the directivity of the mic. Check out the polar patterns of each mic; the most directional mics do seem to be dynamic (for example the Audix OM6 and OM7), but many dynamic mics are less directional than some condenser models.
@Wayne Brown Not how it works. The level of reaction is proportional to the difference in mass across all frequencies and amplitudes. The greater mass and lack of active circuitry is why dynamic microphones have a lower sensitivity and therefore require more gain. But once you give it that gain, it's the same.
@Wayne Brown I guess you've never used headphones before, lol. Either way, don't spread myths, it's not helpful to people who don't know any better and gets them to spread the same misinformation, you being a prime example of that.
4 года назад+1
Why a Behringer in the thumbnail, if the example was a SM7B?
That fits my experience as well. Dynamic microphones seem to have about 10-15 dB more noise than the equivalent condenser. My question now is... is the noise broadband or concentrated in particular frequencies?
Hey, the noise from dynamic mics is thermal noise which is pretty much white noise. The spectral density of this noise is constant throughout the frequency spectrum.
So… if I have one a Shure Beta 58a at about 290 ohms with a sensitivity of -51dBV and one Shure SM7B about 150 ohms with a sensitivity of -69 dBV, which would be more noisy?
The 7B is -59dBv I'm pretty sure? The SM7B will noisier because it requires 8 dB more preamp gain to be match the level of the 58a. The higher impedance of the latter does add some noise but not much.
Part of the attraction of dynamic mics is their low sensitivity when used in noisy environments like exhibition floors, conferences or untreated room (reverb). Can you achieve similar recording results using condenser mics taking into account the noise levels you presented in this video?
That's actually a myth. Level matched, dynamics and condenser microphones pick up the same amount of background noise. The only thing that affects that in a microphone is polar pattern.
I see you use a Behringer in the thumbnail. I loved your video on tweaking post to make the Shure sm57 sound a lot more like an sm7b. Any chance of getting some modeling to cheat the XM8500 to sound like a more expensive dynamic? Is that possible? Thanks again for your great videos!
I bought yesterday a XM8500 and a Focusrite Scarlett Solo combo. Its that a bad idea? its a good choice? Also a Beyerdynamic DT990 PRO 250 ohm. I choose this combo instead of a Blue Yeti or Samson Meteor Condenser mics because I have a noisy room with fans, doors,etc and I have read about it and see that XLR mics are better than pre amped Condensers like Yetis, Smason meteor..etc. Gonna use it for Discord voice chat, streaming. Thanks.
@@JulianKrause I bought yesterday a XM8500 and a Focusrite Scarlett Solo combo. Its that a bad idea? its a good choice? Also a Beyerdynamic DT990 PRO 250 ohm. I choose this combo instead of a Blue Yeti or Samson Meteor Condenser mics because I have a noisy room with fans, doors,etc and I have read about it and see that XLR mics are better than pre amped Condensers like Yetis, Smason meteor..etc. Gonna use it for Discord voice chat, streaming. Thanks.
@@JulianKrause if you do more of those videos, can you please provide in a file the exact/precise frequency responce of the mics and maybe the exact/precise adjusted eq curve for the clone mics? it would be nice to use the adjusted EQ in a plug in like Reaper's reafir wich lets you set precise EQ. Or if you provide the original frequency responce of all the mics, we can calculate the adjusted EQ for our own mics, since measuring frequency responces require some extra hardware and of cource, the good mics, hahaha.
This video is perfect, people don't really often think about mics self noise. Also good to know : With a SM7B you'll need around 60dB of preamp per Pa (spoken voice right at the capsule) to reach line level, this will of course amplify everything on the way, the parasites, and the preamp electronics themselves. So you need to add this self noise figure to the preamp noise. Meanwhile a condenser like the NT1 will only need around 30dB, this is 30dB less noise from other factors than the mic on top of the 12dB self noise difference, that's 42dB more hiss on a dynamic... Here's why dynamics are recommended for louder environnements and sources, not because they're less sensitive to background noise (that's a myth as well), but because when it's noisy people scream in the mic and you don't have to put as much gain, maybe around 35dB which sits right in the middle of modern preamps, wheareas you won't clip a condenser if you scream but you'll have a very little leeway at the preamp, you'll be at the bottom of the range ! (it's usually still very manageable, and not a problem compared to the wonders of a condenser)
The signal/noise ratio of a dynamic microphone at 94dB SPL on a very good preamplifier is 70 to 75dB. It is better than many lavaliers, but nowhere near a condenser, since those are 75 (extremely cheap small diaphragm ones) to 90 (the best for high quality low noise large diaphragms of modern design). If you are not using a top of the line preamplifier, the noise of the dynamic is even higher, while the noise of many condensers is not affected significantly. When using dynamics, the noise of the preamplifier is already higher than the self-noise of the dynamic microphone, while it is many dBs lower than the high self-noise noise of a condenser. Dynamics need 20-30dB more gain compared to condensers, so the preamplifier noise becomes important, and dynamic microphones are actually more noisy in every single case. Just like with noisy lavaliers, using the dynamic up close will increase the SPL and improve the signal/noise ration. And btw, dynamics have the same room tone with a condenser of equivalent polar pattern at the same distance. Using them much closer and saying they have less room noise or that they have an advantage in that department is nonsense. You can use the condenser at equally small distance and get the same room tone with far lover noise. You just have to use some EQ because unlike most dynamics, most condensers have good bass extension that produces more proximity effect and a perception of higher room tone, and use pop protection because they do not include it in their design. I understand using a variable d dynamic from electrovoice because that offers something unique, limited proximity effect, but using typical dynamics in the 21st century does not make any sense. The user of dynamics probably understands very little about the technical side and is copying people he admires, who do not know better themselves, or are too old to compare and change their ways.
Just chiming in here: Most (really, all) modern preamplifiers will be less noisy (relatively to signal of course) the more you increase the gain. It's a common misconception that relative noise increases with preamp gain, but really, we're just hearing noise that was always there. So in the case of a loud sound source, an insensitive dynamic would actually benefit, since it would allow you to increase the gain further, thus lowering the inherent noise of the preamp circuitry, compared to the signal. Edit: Of course this only applies if the preamp noise floor is higher than that of the microphone (plus the delta of the compared microphones), which perhaps may not be the case with the sm7 coupled with a less noisy preamp.
The preamp cannot change the situation. The dynamic has low noise but also low sensitivity. The signal per noise of a 94dB source is calculated to be inferior compared to that of a condenser. Meanwhile, good preamps only add fractions of a db of noise at the required gain levels for a condenser, so they cannot.make the condenser output any worse in signal per noise. The dynamic is doomed by the microphone noise itself. You need very high acoustic pressure to get comparable results. Drums, brass, etc.
@@aristotle_4532 Of course the preamp can change the situation. Since preamp noise is inversely correlated to the microphones sensitivity (assuming matched output levels between microphones), there will be a compensatory effect, favouring the less sensitive microphone. The question is whether this effect is big enough. In practice, it never will be, however, unless there is some horrible design flaw. My point was really just mostly about how increasing the preamp gain will not be worse in terms of noise - but rather beneficial. (Increasing gain may come with other penalties though, such as increased distortion, and low frequency roll-off/phase shift, depending on how good the unit is)
@@_Alex_Sander Search for this part, the math is a little lower. "A microphone’s Self Noise or Thermal Noise is part of the signal the microphone delivers, and using a quieter preamplifier isn’t going to change that. A preamplifier with an appropriate EIN figure will result in less noise from the preamplifier itself, but it won’t change the inherent noise from the microphone - other than amplify it with the signal."
@@aristotle_4532 Yes, the microphones Ein is unaffected - but what matters is the total noise. Since our gain staging is related to the microphone, the microphone will have an effect on preamp noise - just like you originally stated - but in the opposite way.
Hey, if you're interested in this topic I highly recommend to have a look at this site: www.beis.de/Elektronik/Nomograms/R-Noise/ResistorNoise.html There you will also find a calculator with which you can calculate the noise density and level for different impedances. I used this to derive the numbers for this video. Cheers!
Why Didn,t You Consider The Thermal Noise of Condensor Mic According To its Impedance ????? Don't give Partial Knowledge !!!! Thermal noise in condenser microphone back volumes
A dynamic mic can handle far more sound pressure then a condenser mic. When you place your face inside the magnetic field of the dynamic mic, it is actually quite sensitive, It rejects sound more outside that space. So just think about how little noise a condenser can handle. The amount of room conditioning involved in getting good harmonics from a condenser mic is incredible. learning to properly record with a condenser mic is much harder.
Your videos make it blatantly clear, that I am completely clueless when it comes to audio knowledge.
With that said, I still thank you for the clear and complete presentations of the subject matter your cover.
I always know more after watching than I did before.
Well done!
I mean, this stuff is not your average audio knowledge, so it is absolutely fine to not know it. But it can come in handy when deciding on which mic to use, in a given situation. And it is great to hear that you learned something because that's what these videos are for ;)
You may have lots of audio knowledge but if you are not an electrical engineer it is unlikely that you would know this stuff.
@@RallenMan I wish I had a lot of audio knowledge.
But honestly I don't.
With Julian's precise, clear, & intelligent presentation style, I am learning.
I learn so much from your channel. Came for the dbx-286s setup and stayed for the variety of interesting things you teach!
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Great video! But still...REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!
tfw Bandrew's favorite mic doesn't have the lowest ENL
wow i love your video,
i am also sick of all these humans
Excellent video and very clear explanations Julian. Understanding mic specs including strengths and weaknesses of each is critical to choosing the right mic for any application!
"Just to make Shure", awesome :D
I laughed too !
My own practical tests with my own dynamic and condenser mics bear this out. What I "thought" would be the quite microphone, the dynamic, in fact was noisier than the condenser even when taking into account how much more sensitive the condenser was in comparison. Blew my mind!
Julian, thank you for all the great videos, they are the best theoretical explanations I've seen on RUclips, backed up by great experiments and tests. If I may ask you, could you do a Julian Krause style video on all the different dB types all the way from the mics/instrument thru the preamp, interface, daw and finally to the mastering? As a home studio musician I find it very difficult to understand all the levels, dB types, vu, lfs and always seem to be messing up the gain level in some stage. Thank you so much!
Random video to post this on, I know, but your RUclips channel is awesome. So much useful stuff, even for a noob like me. Thanks!
Fantastic! It compares exactly the two mics I own myself.
Very good video, I was aware of this having owned several dynamics and comparing with condensers, but the detail you delve into makes me keenly aware of my lack of intelligence when it comes to math and engineering :D
Technically explained. Bravo
Great explanation for a complex argument like this.
Very informative, first video I've seen on this subject. Awesome work and this never even entered my mind, to this extent. I figured there was some because of the mechanical movement between the voice coil and the magnet, just like in a speaker but not that much. Especially the Shure SM7B, wow same equivalent self noise as a medium self noise condenser microphone, like on my MXL 606. I know the preamps with higher gain and the cleaner audio the better, as always. Dynamic microphone equivalent self noise, is a great point to explore, thanks...
I would love to see you do a review of the new shure Behringer mic clones. Great videos, I just discovered your channel.
Great video and all but can we talk about that sweater? Looks so good.
Great review
Would you consider making a video about the belief that dynamic microphones reject background noise better than condenser mics? I myself am an acoustic engineer and I can't recall any physical rule that would implicate this. I know that people observe this dependency, because they speak closer to dynamics. But when you take a dynamic cardioid and a condenser cardioid at the same distance and compensate the sensitivity difference with gain, there will be the same amount of room reverb or room noise.
Of course, there is some subjective difference caused by different frequency responses and the high-frequency reverb might be easier to distinct from the source signal. Would you comment on this? Because although I know how it should be, the belief is so common that I'm losing my confidence on this.
Hey, your thoughts are absolutely valid. This is a very interesting and probably often misunderstood topic. There are some more things to consider, like the changing off-axis frequency response of different microphone types. I still have do do some more research before I can make a definite statement but I will make a full video about this topic. Thanks for the suggestion :)
@@JulianKrause great! Good point about different directional response depending on the frequency. Can't wait for the video :)
are you me ?
Well, this was a year ago but I'll still comment that just today I did a few test recordings with 1) a large diaphragm condenser mic, 2) a small diaphragm condenser mic and 3) a dynamic instrument mic. I can tell you that after recording all three and normalizing the tracks to the same level, the background noise of my computer running close by and my air conditioner, is exactly the same. Or, well, same enough at least that it's not noticeable.
This topic is really good! I wish the Video will come
Amazing explanation!!!
Great explanation! Thanks for the guide :)
I kind of skipped around the video so I may have missed it, but I'd take into consideration that at least when I'm recording my voice, I tend to get a lot closer to a dynamic mic, than to a condenser, which would compensate for the lower sensitivity.
Also, one type of noise can sound different than another type of noise even when matched for energy.
So I guess you really have to actually try out different mics in different situations and listen to the results, as opposed to think too much about the theory behind equivalent noise levels.
Finally found an explanation for this , thanksss man
Excellent info, thanks.
great as always
So a dinamic mic with high sensitivity will have lower noice than less sensitive mics, right? are there good and affordable high sensitivity mics, like -30db sensitivy or similar?
Hi,
Very good video explaining the noise level of certain type of microphones.
Another parameter which we have to includes is the transmission noise'. which is the cable itself. It also picks EMI from surroundings. Dynamics microphone produces very small electric signal.. While travelling through cable it also mixed with surrounding EMI and it amplified by the preamp.
Compared to condenser mic, the output signal is quite high and need lesser gain which also reduce the EMI noise..
So, it is wise to have short cable, to reduce the MI noise level.
Please correct me, if I am wrong about it.
Thank you very much.
Sounds right to me. Same as the cables quality ie silver vs gold.
Hey Julian, I wanted your take on buying a shure SM57 as a vocal mic. My room isn't acoustically treated and crickets start buzzing once the evening hits. But still I'm not sure using SM57 as a studio mic. HELP HELP HELP
Interesting! I always assumed dynamic mics were quieter, even though I've personally experienced the opposite in various recording experiments.
Very interesting topic to tackle - I have not seen this addressed anywhere else...great job! One thing does confuse me, though. Julian, you quoted the SM7b sensitivity as -56.8, however, the spec sheets I find online quote it as -59.0 (1.12mV). Am I incorrect in trying to align the sensitivity figure you presented with the "Output Level" quoted in the spec sheet (this is most likely the case, as I am a relative amateur)? Or, did you measure a different number yourself in your own tests, than what is in the spec sheet?
Hey, I see you are paying attention :) But there is a small catch! The sensitivity of -59dB is referenced to 1 Volt. So, the unit is dBV. In my calculation I use dBu, so you have to convert dBV to dBu first. When you do that, you'll find that -59dBV roughly equals -56.8dBu. The sensitivity is still the same, it is just another unit in order to be able to calculate things properly. If you're interested in converting between dBu, dBV and Voltage, check out this website: www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db-volt.htm
Cheers!
Very good explanation.
Hry Julian, your answer is much appreciated. If the Dynamic mic go straight to Audio interface ie sm7b to ssl2? does the noise still the same?
Tremendous!! Thanks
I can't wait for dat impedance video.
Hey, check out this part about impedance. There is is still a bit more to this topic, but this should get you started: ruclips.net/video/DGwm6llYv5g/видео.html
Nice video! Thanks for the technical insight! It’s nice to know for s(h)ure! Haha! Nice pun Julian! 😂👍
The question now is: How much does this difference in noise matter in the real world in the different use cases? When does this make a noticeable difference? Given how many professionals use and have used the SM7B, i dare say, that it’s not like the amount of noise out of the SM7B does matter THAT much and only in very specific situations and uses.
For instance: Actually, it will be a mix of inherit mic and preamp noise AND environment noise. And talking about that will make a BIG difference for users with a badly or not at all audio treated room. But I trust, this is not an oversight.
Of course, the SM7B is still usable and the biggest factor which is determining if you will hear the noise, is how close you get the microphone. With the SM7B close to your mouth the noise is usually not a problem. But the further you get away from the mic, the more you have to turn up the gain and you will start to hear the self-noise. And I would argue, that the SM7B must be very close to a speaking person, if you want to have get a totally clean recording. So, with the ENL of 17 dBSPL(A) it is still possible to get clean recordings, but with the higher ENL the position of the mic gets more critical.
Nah ini yang saya cari review 2 karakter mic yang berbeda👍
1:45 sigh.... liked and subcribed.
im working on finding situations where a dynamic microphone actually has lower equivalent noise (audio technica BP40?) than a condenser microphone. I'm also doing stupid tests with using 4x mic inputs Y'd together (each mic input is 10kohm, don't worry) to attempt to get the lowest noise possible.
Interesting, summing the signals from 4 inputs can give you a theoretical 6 dB of preamp noise improvement (3 dB per doubling of channels). Likely the mics self-noise is then going to be the limiting factor at that point. Theoretically one could also put multiple dynamic mics in parallel to lower their noise. Although this is likely going to end up in severe comb filtering as the capsule sized is relatively large and you can't get them physically close together.
There are definitely cases where condenser mics are noisier than dynamics. Typically, cheap condensers can have around 25 dBSPL(A) of self-noise which is more than your typical dynamic mic.
Hey, do you still think dynamic mics are better for untreated rooms ? Because they seem to be at disadvantage compared to condenser mics ! Thanks
In my experience, it really depends on how far away the microphone is. Given that dynamic microphones are less sensitive, typically they are used for more close-mic situations, and capture less reverb. Dynamics also tend to have hypercardioid patterns that are narrower.
That's actually a myth. Level matched, dynamics and condenser microphones pick up the same amount of background noise. The only thing that affects that in a microphone is polar pattern. Just turn down the gain and keep your mouth less than 6 inches from the front of the diaphragm of the mic, and you'll get the same effect.
Depends of the directivity of the mic. Check out the polar patterns of each mic; the most directional mics do seem to be dynamic (for example the Audix OM6 and OM7), but many dynamic mics are less directional than some condenser models.
@Wayne Brown Not how it works. The level of reaction is proportional to the difference in mass across all frequencies and amplitudes. The greater mass and lack of active circuitry is why dynamic microphones have a lower sensitivity and therefore require more gain. But once you give it that gain, it's the same.
@Wayne Brown I guess you've never used headphones before, lol. Either way, don't spread myths, it's not helpful to people who don't know any better and gets them to spread the same misinformation, you being a prime example of that.
Why a Behringer in the thumbnail, if the example was a SM7B?
Because the XM8500 looks more like your typical dynamic handheld mic.
That fits my experience as well. Dynamic microphones seem to have about 10-15 dB more noise than the equivalent condenser.
My question now is... is the noise broadband or concentrated in particular frequencies?
Hey, the noise from dynamic mics is thermal noise which is pretty much white noise. The spectral density of this noise is constant throughout the frequency spectrum.
So… if I have one a Shure Beta 58a at about 290 ohms with a sensitivity of -51dBV and one Shure SM7B about 150 ohms with a sensitivity of -69 dBV, which would be more noisy?
The 7B is -59dBv I'm pretty sure? The SM7B will noisier because it requires 8 dB more preamp gain to be match the level of the 58a. The higher impedance of the latter does add some noise but not much.
You the man
Which is why i love condensers!
Part of the attraction of dynamic mics is their low sensitivity when used in noisy environments like exhibition floors, conferences or untreated room (reverb). Can you achieve similar recording results using condenser mics taking into account the noise levels you presented in this video?
That's actually a myth. Level matched, dynamics and condenser microphones pick up the same amount of background noise. The only thing that affects that in a microphone is polar pattern.
@@KaneAmaroq Thank god i'm not alone in this world
I see you use a Behringer in the thumbnail. I loved your video on tweaking post to make the Shure sm57 sound a lot more like an sm7b. Any chance of getting some modeling to cheat the XM8500 to sound like a more expensive dynamic? Is that possible? Thanks again for your great videos!
Haha, I actually though about that. If I find the time, I'll make a video on that topic.
I bought yesterday a XM8500 and a Focusrite Scarlett Solo combo. Its that a bad idea? its a good choice? Also a Beyerdynamic DT990 PRO 250 ohm. I choose this combo instead of a Blue Yeti or Samson Meteor Condenser mics because I have a noisy room with fans, doors,etc and I have read about it and see that XLR mics are better than pre amped Condensers like Yetis, Smason meteor..etc. Gonna use it for Discord voice chat, streaming. Thanks.
@@JulianKrause I bought yesterday a XM8500 and a Focusrite Scarlett Solo combo. Its that a bad idea? its a good choice? Also a Beyerdynamic DT990 PRO 250 ohm. I choose this combo instead of a Blue Yeti or Samson Meteor Condenser mics because I have a noisy room with fans, doors,etc and I have read about it and see that XLR mics are better than pre amped Condensers like Yetis, Smason meteor..etc. Gonna use it for Discord voice chat, streaming. Thanks.
@@JulianKrause if you do more of those videos, can you please provide in a file the exact/precise frequency responce of the mics and maybe the exact/precise adjusted eq curve for the clone mics? it would be nice to use the adjusted EQ in a plug in like Reaper's reafir wich lets you set precise EQ. Or if you provide the original frequency responce of all the mics, we can calculate the adjusted EQ for our own mics, since measuring frequency responces require some extra hardware and of cource, the good mics, hahaha.
This video is perfect, people don't really often think about mics self noise. Also good to know :
With a SM7B you'll need around 60dB of preamp per Pa (spoken voice right at the capsule) to reach line level, this will of course amplify everything on the way, the parasites, and the preamp electronics themselves. So you need to add this self noise figure to the preamp noise. Meanwhile a condenser like the NT1 will only need around 30dB, this is 30dB less noise from other factors than the mic on top of the 12dB self noise difference, that's 42dB more hiss on a dynamic...
Here's why dynamics are recommended for louder environnements and sources, not because they're less sensitive to background noise (that's a myth as well), but because when it's noisy people scream in the mic and you don't have to put as much gain, maybe around 35dB which sits right in the middle of modern preamps, wheareas you won't clip a condenser if you scream but you'll have a very little leeway at the preamp, you'll be at the bottom of the range ! (it's usually still very manageable, and not a problem compared to the wonders of a condenser)
Don't dynamic mics capture less sound acoustically than a condenser Mic?
The signal from a dynamic mic is lower than a signal from a condenser mic and thus needs to be amplified more.
The signal/noise ratio of a dynamic microphone at 94dB SPL on a very good preamplifier is 70 to 75dB. It is better than many lavaliers, but nowhere near a condenser, since those are 75 (extremely cheap small diaphragm ones) to 90 (the best for high quality low noise large diaphragms of modern design). If you are not using a top of the line preamplifier, the noise of the dynamic is even higher, while the noise of many condensers is not affected significantly. When using dynamics, the noise of the preamplifier is already higher than the self-noise of the dynamic microphone, while it is many dBs lower than the high self-noise noise of a condenser. Dynamics need 20-30dB more gain compared to condensers, so the preamplifier noise becomes important, and dynamic microphones are actually more noisy in every single case. Just like with noisy lavaliers, using the dynamic up close will increase the SPL and improve the signal/noise ration.
And btw, dynamics have the same room tone with a condenser of equivalent polar pattern at the same distance. Using them much closer and saying they have less room noise or that they have an advantage in that department is nonsense. You can use the condenser at equally small distance and get the same room tone with far lover noise. You just have to use some EQ because unlike most dynamics, most condensers have good bass extension that produces more proximity effect and a perception of higher room tone, and use pop protection because they do not include it in their design.
I understand using a variable d dynamic from electrovoice because that offers something unique, limited proximity effect, but using typical dynamics in the 21st century does not make any sense. The user of dynamics probably understands very little about the technical side and is copying people he admires, who do not know better themselves, or are too old to compare and change their ways.
Just chiming in here: Most (really, all) modern preamplifiers will be less noisy (relatively to signal of course) the more you increase the gain. It's a common misconception that relative noise increases with preamp gain, but really, we're just hearing noise that was always there. So in the case of a loud sound source, an insensitive dynamic would actually benefit, since it would allow you to increase the gain further, thus lowering the inherent noise of the preamp circuitry, compared to the signal.
Edit: Of course this only applies if the preamp noise floor is higher than that of the microphone (plus the delta of the compared microphones), which perhaps may not be the case with the sm7 coupled with a less noisy preamp.
The preamp cannot change the situation. The dynamic has low noise but also low sensitivity. The signal per noise of a 94dB source is calculated to be inferior compared to that of a condenser. Meanwhile, good preamps only add fractions of a db of noise at the required gain levels for a condenser, so they cannot.make the condenser output any worse in signal per noise. The dynamic is doomed by the microphone noise itself. You need very high acoustic pressure to get comparable results. Drums, brass, etc.
@@aristotle_4532 Of course the preamp can change the situation. Since preamp noise is inversely correlated to the microphones sensitivity (assuming matched output levels between microphones), there will be a compensatory effect, favouring the less sensitive microphone. The question is whether this effect is big enough. In practice, it never will be, however, unless there is some horrible design flaw.
My point was really just mostly about how increasing the preamp gain will not be worse in terms of noise - but rather beneficial. (Increasing gain may come with other penalties though, such as increased distortion, and low frequency roll-off/phase shift, depending on how good the unit is)
@@_Alex_Sander Search for this part, the math is a little lower.
"A microphone’s Self Noise or Thermal Noise is part of the signal the microphone delivers, and using a quieter preamplifier isn’t going to change that. A preamplifier with an appropriate EIN figure will result in less noise from the preamplifier itself, but it won’t change the inherent noise from the microphone - other than amplify it with the signal."
@@aristotle_4532 Yes, the microphones Ein is unaffected - but what matters is the total noise. Since our gain staging is related to the microphone, the microphone will have an effect on preamp noise - just like you originally stated - but in the opposite way.
Hey, Julian Klietz here.
Does anyone got curious about the formulas too? Anyone? No? ... Julian, help me out here!!!
Please?
Hey, if you're interested in this topic I highly recommend to have a look at this site: www.beis.de/Elektronik/Nomograms/R-Noise/ResistorNoise.html
There you will also find a calculator with which you can calculate the noise density and level for different impedances. I used this to derive the numbers for this video. Cheers!
So many types of decibels...
He never frickin blinks! 🤣
You’re the best
Thank you very much!!
Moral: There is no free lunch.
WAIT WAS?
Why Didn,t You Consider The Thermal Noise of Condensor Mic According To its Impedance ????? Don't give Partial Knowledge !!!! Thermal noise in condenser microphone back volumes
Because this type of noise is included in the Equivalent Noise Level of a condenser microphone. There is no need to state it separately.
A dynamic mic can handle far more sound pressure then a condenser mic. When you place your face inside the magnetic field of the dynamic mic, it is actually quite sensitive, It rejects sound more outside that space. So just think about how little noise a condenser can handle. The amount of room conditioning involved in getting good harmonics from a condenser mic is incredible. learning to properly record with a condenser mic is much harder.