As a backyarder that's been building and tuning engines for 40 years, it never ceases to amaze me how an engine can find a way to destroy itself. I see a solid steel lifter that is supposed to be only under compressive load, have so much side load that it breaks through the case and snaps off. Mind blowing for such a relatively low revving engine.
The amount of dirt in that thing I'm not surprised , I would say the lifter seized and then the cam pushed it any way it could, being old if it had some play in it then it may have locked sideways . But this could be a lubrication issue that had it run a little dry in that part . Chuck bottle of lifter turn up in it It'll be fine.
Davco will repair your case. Cam and follower problems on the e2d's are normally the result of poor start up procedure. Given the spalling on the other followers I'd say that unless it was ran out of oil (which it wasn't because your crank was relittively clean) this has been developing for a while and it should have been picked up on filter inspection because I can see your cam is scrubbed too so all that metal has gone somewhere and not been noticed. Don't exceed 1200rpm till the oil temp is in the green arc and always open up your filters.
I think it ran an Moment to much out of Oil for the upper Part of this lifter! This Part gets only oiled, going down, closing the Valve. Starting without full Oilpressure and Mags in, can cause that after a Periode of Standing. Older Engines need some Rounds of turning without Ignition to get enough oil in every Part of the Motor! But Guys, I am fixing only Oldtimer Eng ines on Cars. But it is interesting how similar the Airplane Engines are. Build to Work for a Long Time ! The Bore of the lifter can be welded and Rebored new. But check the Valve and the Spring, If it is not closing correctly. This could be be another foult ! Pleased excuse my Writing.....the Correction worked in German....
Great job....informative...I overhauled my o320 for my experimental in 2015... Some food for thought. I didn't have a cht probe for cyl2...turned out it had a broken piston ring do to overheat....to make matters worse....when engine overheated the oil temp exceeded limits....oil pressure down to 15 psi...and everyone knows what comes next..pre ignition..detonation... Being 20 miles from airport, this was worse than going to the dentist. Upon teardown, crank..bearings and everything else ok. A cylinder overheating can cause engine to go south. I suggest it's a good idea to have cam drilled on overhaul to make pressure spray vs splash...I'm also slowly getting rid of channel chrome cylinders. The new cylinders run cooler than chrome...not talking cermichrome... This young man is inquisitive. Wanna bet he took apart his dad's lawnmower when he was 10?
Very interesting and informative. I used to have a Cardinal RG with the IO360 A1B6D and it had a stuck valve once but the mechanic was able to set it right immediately. This in depth video is the kind of thing many pilots wonder about but don't really have much background or knowledge in so thank you for putting these kinds of videos out there.
Instead of using a rag for your pliers, always have some small strips og leather or bicycle innertube handy, the are really good tools for a lot of things
leather's a great idea. chop a bit off an apron lol. Maybe melting some rubber onto the plier teeth would work better than strips of innertube. In-fact filing the teeth down on a set of grips then coating what's left with rubber is going to be a useful piece of kit. I'm not going to tell that pilot guy how to do his job but a large crap smeared towel with who knows what old stuff floating around on it doesn't seem pro and looks awkward at best...
Most mechanics usually have a shop towel or rag of some type around and grinding the teeth off a good pair of pliers or applying rubber to them isn't a good option either and if you have worked around aircraft everything needs to be accounted for so having less things around is better You were in the right Pilot guy.
John Novis most mechanics also have more than one of the same common tool which (for the want of a special tool), can in a pinch be sacrificed for the greater good. Pilot guy uses a modified tool in a vid I recently saw. I'm not here to complain about the three seconds of music in the intro either but surely you too can see the potential for contamination by using such a large and fluffy piece of towel as if it were an old sock or a piece of blue paper?!
That lifter failure is similar to what happened to my O-320H2AD. In mine, the lifter split in the middle and messed up the case good. I had the case welded and it went back together and ran fine for years!
Davco are the folk I use for problems like that, excellent work. The h2ad and the rest of the 76 series motors are pigs for cam and follower problems due poor lubrication, the only time I've seen cam and followers this bad on an e2d like this though is pilot abuse or "that nut behind the column"
@@turboconqueringmegaeagle9006 It's Divco not Davco. The cam and lifter issue has become such a problem that Lycoming has gone to roller cams and lifters. The 76 series are such pigs that Lycoming won't touch them anymore- turn in a H2AD and you'll get an O-320 D2J back.
@@bsrktm1 it's pretty rare for my customers to go with factory re-man, I'm in the UK so shipping both ways kills it but with Divco (thanks for that) I can send my case with a parts supplier and it only costs $1000 for the re-worked case including all the shipping, can't speak highly enough of the service I've had from them. In private hands an h2ad can get to it's tbo and beyond but with training it's unlikely and the rollers still haven't been stc'd for older engines here unfortunately. I've got seven 172N's on the books still operating with the h2ad and three of them are on the school/hire, the only saving grace is being able to pull the followers without splitting the case, and with the integral accessory cover, it's a quick engine to build up if it does need splitting. With filter inspections which are mandated on those things, I know when it's time to book it out for a couple of days to start throwing spanners about.
@@turboconqueringmegaeagle9006 I've seen lots of H2ADs make it to TBO. They are easy to build and aren"t terrible if they've had the T mod done. However, Lycoming doesn't really want to support them, plus all the parts are getting harder to get and more expensive every day. If you ever get a chance, trade it in for a D2J. It'll be cheaper in the long run.
What could possibly go wrong? Now we know. If a pictures is worth 1000 words then this video is worth an untold number of words.Much appreciation for taking the time to post this up.
Ron Tucker certainly my friend, thank you for watching. Just goes to show the importance of following manufacturers recommendations; they aren’t kidding
Mark Smith This aircrafts engine owner(s) may have been cheap bastards (“CB”) but were practical. Such franken-motors are common in most commercial aircraft powerplants. So many people waste $$$ by replacing serviceable parts that have nearly new limits with brand new parts. At $2-3k per cylinder, that adds up quick.
Also noticed the different paint colors on the jugs. Those are codes for if the jugs have been bored over size. I think some of the jugs had different bore sizes. Green means 0.01" oversize. Don't recall the other codes. I would suspect that lifter boss failure to be due to spalling on the cam lobe putting side loads on the lifter.
@@sblack48 Might have been a green 10 over, mistake it for a blue nitrite. Orange is hard chrome, Two orange and a silver is cermachrome(rare) Blue is nitrite bore (factory Lycoming). Two orange and a silver is cerma nil (more rare). No marking is thru hardened (Superior Air Parts). commonly). Yellow on upper fins on the head would be long reach spark plugs.
Nobody puts on one P10. Gotta be pairs, and then nobody worth working with does P10's. Cylinders are relatively cheap in the long run. This aircraft has been neglected for a long time. Freshing up the powerplant will make sense if the airframe is good.
I just bit the bullet and ordered a factory rebuilt O-320 from Lycoming. The engine was making metal badly, had been rebuilt several times over the years, and was the original narrow deck unit that came with the plane. After 57 years it has done its duty. If Lycoming's lead times are anywhere near accurate I'll be back in the air in the spring.
and to think I was sweating bullets when you separated the case while it was standing on the crank. I just knew the free side of the case was going to fall away as you were looking for a place to set the other half down rendering case damage. Little did I know. LOL. Cheers from Louisiana.
That is not a 'worn out' or 'tired' engine failure. More likely the lifter got stuck in the bore because it was poorly maintained; when an engine start was attempted the camshaft can exert tremendous force with the leverage it has and with the large foot on the lifer bottom it snapped the 'head' off the lifter. Since the cases are matched set; the whole case is pretty much trash.
Agreed. Likely poor maintenance, but my guess is from gross excessive valve lash that further precipitated a hot stuck valve or perhaps a broken valve spring, resulting in piston / valve interference, and spiking of the valve train. An over-speed event is possible but unlikely since valve prints couldn't be seen on any piston tops. Unfortunately the piston top that matters wasn't shown so evidence of valve / piston interference can't be determined from this video. A shattered lifter is almost always the result of a piston smacking a valve, but it doesn't preclude a lifter fracturing by itself from accelerated fatigue, again from excessive (and continuous) valve lash. Those on board during this failure were fortunate a valve didn't break, leaving them powerless at best, or on fire at worst.
Ahh. Memories of doing this in A&P school almost 20 years ago. Worked on this very design and also the six cylinder version with and without turbocharger. Good times.
I went to A&P school 30 years ago and we torn down and rebuilt radial engines out of tanks. An engine is an engine, but would have been nice to actually work on a modern aircraft engine...
@@GamingwithKandA The only "modern" engines we have are the Rotax 912ULS and 912iS. The engine in my 2001 car is more advanced than anything bolted to an aircraft at our hanger =(
You should not remove the cylinders that way, always try using a closed wrench (star shaped) first, and remove the pistons immediately when you take off a cylinder, loose pistons can damage the crankcase. Also the recommended order if you are disassembling the engine is to start with the oil sump then accessory housing and only in the end remove the cylinders.
I was cringing the whole time those pistons were just sitting there waiting to hit a ring on the case! I didn't see the Lycoming Overhaul manual at all during the video... that might have helped him with the correct order of disassembly and the proper names for major parts like the accessory case and the oil sump.
Don't add "music" to your productions. It adds NOTHING, especially when you don't appear to know how to set levels or mix so the "music" doesn't drown out your voice. Would wayyy rather just listen to the fast forward audio than that crap you call music. Otherwise, an interesting video..
Love that V-tail Bonanza! My first solo was in one of those and my father and I eventually bought our own and had a blast doing the engine R&R together. Definitely time for a replacement case. You should see what a dropped valve seat does to the internals. Broken/shattered pistons, scarred up combustion chambers, bent/broken valves, broken crankshafts, etc. It gets ugly when chunks of metal go wonky in the engine case/block. Best of luck w/ that engine. Should prove to be an education. lol
Thank you for saying that. I am not an A&P, but I have built many auto engines over the years. When I saw him take the pliers to that rocker shaft, I just cringed.
Built 1000hp street cars and cat and cummins in my trucks but plane engines are new to me. Like being a kid again. Cool to see something different thanks
Simple repair , send it to a crankcase repair facility and they will repair that check the rest of the case and recertify it for further use, need to do the rest but a lot cheaper than another engine.
Instead of TBO - i have seen good evidence for aero engine, oil sample/trend analysis and on condition OH only - most issues happen RIGHT after OH as well.
If you are referring to the Lycoming O-320 H2AD then way back in 1977 with the Introduction of this engine in the '77 172N Sky Hawk about 650 of the first 700 or so engines failed in 2 ways first the cams and lifters spauling and the aluminum oil pump gears also almost failed. Our club '77 172N 's engine went in for an AD and at 377.4 hours it was about to have a catastrophic engine failure ... Oil analyses was out of sight and metal all through the engine ... Long story short we dodged a bullet. At 2000+ hours we took the engine to Schneck in Illinois and their overhaul turned to be a pile of shit. Cam was installed wrong took it back and then it leaked oil for the rest of it's life as far as I know. I left the club after that. anyways the Lycoming O-320 H2AD we purchased in 1977 after exchange worked out great before the first overhaul at Schneck. We attributed its 2000 hours because we required all club members to Preheat the engine at or below 35 F and keep the RPM be low 800 to 900 till it reached operating temp.
Tis is very well repairable... probably caused by over heating, lack o or jus bad oil... this engine is pritty dry when opened to...(or is it pre washed?) y see lots of signs off bad burned oil.. ... ..........
Guy said it was a spare engine, it could have been sitting awhile. But I agree that engine was abused, there's no way a tappet that large and substantial snapped in half from being "worn out". From the galling on the aluminum bore of the tappet, we can assume that the aluminum was so hot that it got soft and allowed the tappet to go sideways, which developed a crack. You can see a shiny area in the upper corner of the broken tappet shaft where the crack started and the grain pattern in the rest of it where the tappet was pulled apart. You can see burned oil residue on the piston connecting rod upper end and on the valve springs. That type of damage usually occurs from lack of oil flow or not changing the oil at regular intervals. The broken tappet bore can be repaired, but it'd be pointless, that whole engine is trash. Once an engine has been that badly overheated, it's not going to run right ever again.
Young man that repair is quite simple. A cylinder of non conductive material the same width as the bore can be rested there in that place while the aluminum material is built back up by stacking welds. The bore can be milled at a machine shop to be the correct diameter and height and strength. Metal replacement of a broken off part is largely what Tig Welders do. Many different solutions that exact problem. NO fear that it can't be fixed.
Yeah, I was wondering what the plan was to keep both halves from falling off while splitting... but it turned out the plan was dumb luck. Next time a case splitter would be handy. I gather the other end of that lifter was seized in the bore; one thing I'm pretty certain of is that a lifter doesn't just pop out of the side of a bore because it's old. Overall, I'd say this is pretty shade-tree but I feel like that's a bit insulting to the reasonably talented shade tree-mechanics.
change the brand of engine oil you are using. that lifter die not receive adequate lubrication. look at the brown varnish build-up inside that case.This is not an age related problem.
I worked in a part 145 engine shop. Tore down over 100 engines, some had rods thrown through cases, many prop strikes, etc Make sure to use compressed air to blow out oil holes in pushrods, they’re often plugged with sludge and starve corresponding rocker shaft of oil A&P/IA
I've worked on many auto engines with high mileage and they rarely looked so abused as this Lycoming engine. The owner /operator needs some serious schooling on proper engine operation and maintenance. His life depends on it!
This isnt like a car engine, these engines are essentially run at redline for the majority of their life and need overhauled far more often that auto engines. If those high mileage engines you did had ran at redline all there life, they would look 10 times worse than this lycoming. General avation pilots also tend to be really cheap on their matinence
@@TheFlick175 Redline?? You call 2700rpm redline? 3000rpm?? That is relatively slow for an engine. Camshaft rotates at half the speed of the crank, so at 3000rpm, camshaft is doing a leisurely 1500rpm and the valves are opening n closing every 375rpm. These engines are designed for high torque, not horsepower, that's why HP numbers look dismally low compared to automotive engines. Two things that kill an engine is high heat and lack of lubrication. By lack of lubrication I mean not changing the oil frequently enough. The maintenance schedule may say change after so many hours or in automotive after so many miles. If it starts looking dirty waay before the scheduled time, CHANGE IT. Oil is waay cheaper than an engine overhaul or worse, engine failure while flying. I've built engines for a living and the most prevalent cause of failure is not changing the oil often enough. And if your oil gets dirty soon after an oil change, your engine has "blowby", bad ring seal, and causes carbon to contaminate the oil fairly quickly... Preventive maintenance is key. The maintenance schedule is just a guide, not Gospel...
@@Pork-Chopper You do know that aircraft engines get their oil changed every 25 or 50 hours, right?. That is something like the automotive equivalent of every 1000-2500 miles. And this engine does have a redline RPM that low, it may be slow for an "engine", but not for this engine. It is like saying that the world's largest engine, the Wartsila RTA-96C runs too slow just because it only turns at 15-106 RPM. It was designed that way. Sure it could theoretically turn faster, but not at 100% load, which is what happens when you put a properly sized propeller on an engine and run it at full throttle. Most GA airplanes run full throttle for at least the first several minutes of the flight, with the remaining cruise flight at 75% power for potentially hours. Or when running laps in the pattern, cycling from full throttle to idle as quick as every 5 minutes. Try that in your car with a trailer attached at the base of a hill - start up and after a 5 minute warm up, give it full throttle for 15 minutes and then drive for 2 hours at nearly full throttle without stopping or letting off the gas at all. Or come to a stop at the base of a hill and go full throttle for 3 minutes, then idle for three minutes, then full throttle up hill for 3 minutes, over and over and over. And then do that for 2000 hours and see what the engine looks like inside at overhaul time.
@@MattRogersdesigns I understand what you are saying, Locomotive engines idle at 250rpm and redline at 950rpm, However, they are 5000 horsepower engines. Long stroke, low rpm engines are built for torque, not necessarily high horsepower, high rpm like most hot rodders assume. As mentioned in a previous reply, general aviation pilots are cheap when it comes to maintenance. Longer stroke engines have higher piston speeds, so they do wear a bit faster. All I'm saying is you don't have to wait for a specific time, say , 50hrs to change the oil. If it looks like crap at 30 hours, change it. Oil will always be cheaper than an engine overhaul, and Oil, is, the life blood of an engine, the cleaner it is, the longer the engine will last. It goes without saying, if you run the shit out of it, it will require more oil changes n maintenance, and will not last as long, therefore the maintenance schedule, IMO, is just a that, a schedule. Nothing stops you from changing the oil more often. Look at it, smell it, feel it in your fingers, if it doesn't look, or smell fresh, change it. Let me put it another way, no one likes dirty pussy, clean n fresh is best... I prefer a clean one owner, with low hours on the clock...
@@MattRogersdesigns I think the warm-up is longer. ATIS, set radio / Instruments, Call ground, Taxie, Run-up / Checklist, Check engine gages as one of the items on the checklist - Light Camera Action. I can not do that is five minutes - I takes me about 10 to 15 minutes, depending If I have to wait to take off and or some other delay.
The case half threads are supposed to be on the inside of the fasteners. Also, I hope you use torque plates when you put it back together, and it would have been nice to see the piston removal procedure.
The first thing I saw that was BAD was cold starting an engine and going to 1500 RMP right away. That is very hard on the bearings and camshaft. Start the engine at idle and let oil pressure build before you increase RMP above 1,000, your engine will thank you in longer life.
I don't know anything about aircraft engines , at what oil pressure should it have at idle, in the automotive world hot 30 psi at idle is good cold would show a lot more but never to exceed 100 psig at high rpm. Does it matter because these air cooled engines that run hot are built on the loose side to compensate for expansion and contraction would running it lean cause much of the damage from running really hot?
Where is the broken off piece? If it wasn't inside the case somewhere it may have been assembled with broken case? The unsupported lifter may have failed because case was already broken? It wouldn't really be a difficult repair, build case up with TIG weld and have it re-machined. The way case splits makes it easy to clamp to a machine table.
Our inspection indicated the lifter fatigued and failed on its own and not do to any systematic lack of lubrication. Keep in mind, this engine was a little over TBO as well. The case half was also repairable and has been long since rebuilt and running well.
@@thatpilotguy4995 Those 'mushroom' lifters must be expensing more 'rocking' in the lifter bore than straight sidewall lifters...causing lifter fatigue and fracture... I've never seen it but heard VW's have problems with the mushroom lifters. I'll bet some VW cam and lifter makers know how to fix this problem.. better alloy or heat-treat, or simply more wear-resistant lifter bush material...so less side to side rocking after many hours.
@@Luminaring Older pushrod engines and being killed every day by "Energy Conserving " oil. IMHO This oil blend has very little Zinc and Phosphorus because they plug-up catalytic converters.Not a problem for overhead cam engines, due to weight reduction in valve train components. Boron has been the replacement element. Air cooled VW and Porsche engines are particularly susceptible due to high oil temperature, and lack of warm-up before full throttle! Research PennGrade oil for more information. 👍
Dude. Good to see some engine work. I had no problem with the music! Some interesting comments here. Would be good to see the completed work on this project including engine replacement. If you have time and energy and not flying.
certain types of welding are allowed by the FAA for repairs on aluminum & magnesium engine cases, TIG being the primary. It HAS to be done by a certified repair facility and inspected meticulously. The case can be re-bored and re-spotfaced to allow it to be reused.
@@lsx280 Respect to automotive techs, I was one and it takes skill/knowledge to make a good living. Car are becoming more complex each year and certification is almost mandatory nowadays. That being said, aircraft mechanics have to understand more systems and theory than the average car mechanic would deal with. Some skill sets that may go beyond general automotive knowledge are wood, metal and advanced composite structures, aerodynamic theory, flight control systems, pneumatics, hydraulic systems (complex type), weight and balance, communication and navigation systems, gas turbine engines, landing gear, ice, rain and lightning protection systems, fuel systems (complex), fire protection systems, inert gas systems, oxygen systems, AC/DC electrical systems, dope and fabric surfaces, rigging, regulations, drafting, non-destructive testing etc..., it's a long list. You have to be good at math. Understanding automotive principles in advance is a good start when learning aircraft maintenance technology. You have to take written and oral exams to prove proficiency. It's a notable achievement to earn the airframe and powerplant certificate and it carries a lot of responsibility, arguably more than a pilot carries. Many A & Ps use the knowledge gained to go into other lines of work.
I am an audio engineer. I can edit the audio of your future videos, and I have never offered that to anyone else. lol.. but you certainly remind me of a younger version of myself and I really did like this video a lot. By the way, I would not buy half of a case for this repair. I would definitely buy both halves because the bearings need to be exactly married and I just wouldn’t trust it. I have never messed with airplane engines before but I have overhauled car engines and I’m just starting to mess with airplanes now. Looking forward to more aircraft Content. Good luck!
Absolutely yes. Changing the oil on all aircraft engines every 25 to 35 hours of use is essential; and if done; the engine will likely go 3000 plus hours before an overhaul is needed. Having flown now for over 50 years; I have managed to accumulate around 1000 hours of flying time which tells me if I knew 50 years ago what I now now; I would have needed only one aircraft engine. So this engine failure appears bogus; or an engine where the owner did little or no maintenance.
@@terrydwelander422 Yeah I would agree. You think people would be less careless since an engine failure often results in a smoldering crater with NTSB investigators standing around it.
Thank you for the video. If there is any additional information you can share about the engine, it would be appreciated. Specifically, the model (i.e. D2A, E3D, etc.), the number of total hours, the time since major, and whether or not a "top overhaul" was ever performed on it. I would also be curious to know if any cylinders were ever replaced and if the tappet failure that occurred was on such a cylinder. In addition, did you happen to inspect the length of the pushrod that was associated with that particular lifter? Sorry for all the questions, lots of curiosity over here. Thanks in advance if you happen to answer, and thanks again for your efforts on the video. Take care!
I could certainly go more in-depth and I might in future videos when the times comes, but I am still trying to keep the channel more based on entertainment than educational in regards to the maintenance videos as a precaution from a liability standpoint.
I know we all do it at some point and ratchets are stronger than they were but is it a generational thing? Routinely applying force to undo fastenings with a ratchet not a T-bar.
I agree with Gary Larson. Please turn off the music. I really enjoyed your video. You have a fine skill set. I am a new subscriber! I'm looking forward to your next video. Thanks
is there a workshop in usa that offers engine owner to overhaul his or her engine and thereafter getting certificate to legally do such overhaul back home ..for me in KL,Malaysia? thx
Wear Willy do things like that. The tappit body wearing into softer metals bore as it has to over time. Once it gets so far it’ll start wobbling around and the process will accelerate rapidly. Eventually something will stick momentarily making one part or the other break. I bet this mill was making some subtle tapping for quite a while. Another reason that the humble mechanics stethoscope can be your best friend. thats why pilots need to always be aware of any subtle new noises, vibrations ect.. I also think this case is salvageable though only by a dedicated facility. I would think They could build up and rebore that broken section, magnaflux and it would be good.
Did you find some f o d in the sump? Years ago some guy brought 2 IO 360 A1H to the shop. The engines were destroyed that bad that 2 cylinders on both engines could not be removed. F O D was found in each sump. One had a short 1/4-28 bolt The other had a small spring. The F O D got under the mushroom of the tappet body, breaking it off, then all hell broke loose.
Interesting thought, how far "extra" does the tappet have to move before it meets the hard stop of the case? A sizable chunk between the lobe and the tappet could drive the tappet into the case, but good grief, how would it ever get in just the wrong place at the wrong time. I thought maybe a loss of lubrication could cause the lobe to load or push the tappet in the direction of the break, but IIRC, the cam is turning down on the right side tappets, and turning up on the left side, so wrong case half for that idea.
I know this is a older video but first time for me as a a&p who has overhauled many of these Lycoming engines this is the second video I have watched case damage inflicted by improperly separating the case . Read the manual there is a tool to press it apart using wedges will damage the case lucky it was a easy one to get apart . Huge mis information on this teardown .
Cases are out there, usually a case goes for about the same as a crank. But that's for a used yellow tagged one. If it were mine, I'd find a case, and go with that to get it back in service. Have it overhauled and hope it doesn't go under. Or if it dimensionally checks okay just put it back in service. I had one overhauled at Divco, came back red tagged due to being too thin. Had to find another one. That's one thing they guarantee, that is the case is good. If not don't buy it.
Certainly the case can be heliarc welded and machined to resuse it. I'd be replacing all the lifters, pushrods and maybe the rocker arms on an engine that old - while you are in there it's a lot cheaper than dealing with it assembled and giving you problems Am sure you can exchange those cylinders for rebuilt ones and put new pistons in too
Does the oil get sampled routinely for metal contamination on light aircraft engines ? , I work on diesel locomotives and we sample at least once a month to hopefully pick up failing components before failure I know critical components like a helicopter gearbox and larger commercial aircraft engines have magnetic chip detector's
Many do samples as every oil change and our shop recommends it. Up to the owner to do it though. About $30 a sample. A few piston engines have magnetic plugs, I’ve only seen a single plug on turbo engine.
@@TheReadBaron91 Oil sampling could prevent many engine failure's and also save quite likely save a very expensive engine rebuilds . We get told what component may be failing or if its fuel or coolant contaminated its a very good diagnostic tool
Brings me back to my A&P school days where I got to rebuild an 0-235. Some one took the mag gears off and the instructor freaked out. He was worried we'd never get it timed right. I grabbed the manual and had it timed in no time at all. By swapping good jugs and pistons around that engine became the running test stand engine for tuning and running. Last I heard they still use it. Me and my lab partner were the last ones to have it apart.
So.... where's the chunk? And is there a string attached to the lifter opposite the broken one? I sincerely hope the missing chunk is present, because if it isn't then it was previously reassembled without...
A little more on WHEN the engine failed.. on startup? In the air? During warmup? I’ve seen valves freeze in the guides on engines that have sat a long time. Are those lifters prone to that type of failure? There is more here than meets the eye.
Great video! As per a Lycoming both case half should be from the same mold as they came out of factory. You can not swap one half with another. Each engine is different, and ware out differently.
Oh thats interesting, I didn't know that. The folks to spoke to on the phone with the company doing the work had told me otherwise, either way its no big deal because they were able to successfully repair it.
Foureyed Fox I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU ON THIS!! MIXING CASES WOULD BE LIKE MIXING RODS AND RODCAPS OR MAIN CAPS AND BLOCKS! MACHINED TOGETHER? STAYS TOGETHER!!!!
When we have a failure the first thing we do is getting oil analysis to see what the oil tells us. Then I do a failure analysis on the seized lifter and bore. The failed Parts almost always tell a story.
Made me nervous watching that second case half just holding onto the crank by the oil film on the mains! Interesting failure mode on the fragged lifter there! Did it seize in the bore and then the cam blew it out? Or did it just fatigue fail and hang up?
haha yeah me too, it totally slipped my mind to leave a case bolt or two in. And in regards to the lifter failure, I'm thinking the lifter itself simply fatigued and failed; there were no signs of oil starvation so we ruled systematic failure out.
Pity that there are no close ups of the damaged parts which means it's impossible to definitively comment on what went wrong. But seeing that the other cam followers are fine and show no sign of distress from heat or lack of lubrication my educated guess is a faulty cam follower. That sort of thing just should not happen with a supposedly over designed low revving engine.
Found your channel today and wish you all the best! Been wrenching for a while, and glad to see an A&P in training! I'm curious, which airport are you based at?
I know nothing about aircraft engines but it is possible to build up an engine case with weld and machine back down. Just curious if this meets FAA guide lines.
I guess this is a typical cause of full power on cold engine! Consider the first 40 sec there is no lubrification in the valve lifter channels in the upper and outer part. Mike Bush teaches one start < 5° Celsius is 500hour airborne! If oil is warmer than 60° no metal part is touching!
Thank you for doing this video. I fly an RV9A with this kind of engine, i understand the stick drawing of how an engine works but , seeing you take it apart was really an interesting visualization. Also the casing failing with the lifter that is pretty spooky , did you say how many hours?
The lifter seized do to carbon build up that prevented lubrication Use some form of decarbonize such as gumout on rizlone used for decades on engines Newer engine oil also prevent carbon build up Have d35 Bonanza with stuck exhaust valve e225 The stuck valve was not warn out
The lifters shouldn't get as hot as the valve stem and won't suffer from carburized deposits in the same way. The rest of the followers were all spalled so the one in the damaged socket probably welded itself to the cam.
@@turboconqueringmegaeagle9006 My IO520s IO470s do not, the E225 also does not have valve stem seals. Never have in the TCDS or TCM overhaul manual. The CR is 7.5:1, which was meant for WWII fuel and oils on the E225, just after WWII it was manufactured. which caused the valve sticking issue. The aircraft was flown with a faulty EGT and ran very rich and built up carbon. Had to remove the cylinders. hone valve guides and media blast the valves. Change oils and all is good. www.phillips66lubricants.com/product/xc-aviation-oil/ 1950 CR 7.5:1, 1957: 8:1, 1961, 8.5:1 on big continental engines. cheers.
@@turboconqueringmegaeagle9006 www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/SSP-475.pdf High oil temp can cause carbon to develop. O320 have had issues with the Thermostatic Oil Cooler Bypass Valve sticking www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/SI1255A%20Thermostatic%20Oil%20Cooler%20Valve%20Replacement.pdf
@@turboconqueringmegaeagle9006 here is another issue with o320s www.yeeles.com/Reference/Hi-Temps.pdf High Oil temp, without lubrication the lifter body can much hotter then a valve stem, like friction stir welding.
Good video,your failure could be metal fatigue or my guess is a stress riser at the point where the inside counter-bore of the lifter ends . or right at the oil hole in the lifter.There is a reason it failed.the other 7 didn't.look at the cam lobe a lot closer for marks.It's imperative you find the cause,if that was a Boeing jet you now have 385 lives depending on you.Be seriously there was a cause,old oil,high temp,metal fatigue ,etc. nice video you did.
As a backyarder that's been building and tuning engines for 40 years, it never ceases to amaze me how an engine can find a way to destroy itself.
I see a solid steel lifter that is supposed to be only under compressive load, have so much side load that it breaks through the case and snaps off.
Mind blowing for such a relatively low revving engine.
The cam lobe engages the lifter from the side.
The amount of dirt in that thing I'm not surprised , I would say the lifter seized and then the cam pushed it any way it could, being old if it had some play in it then it may have locked sideways . But this could be a lubrication issue that had it run a little dry in that part . Chuck bottle of lifter turn up in it It'll be fine.
As the cam lobe swipes sideways over the lifter, it does impart a sideways load on it
Davco will repair your case. Cam and follower problems on the e2d's are normally the result of poor start up procedure.
Given the spalling on the other followers I'd say that unless it was ran out of oil (which it wasn't because your crank was relittively clean) this has been developing for a while and it should have been picked up on filter inspection because I can see your cam is scrubbed too so all that metal has gone somewhere and not been noticed.
Don't exceed 1200rpm till the oil temp is in the green arc and always open up your filters.
Divco
@@PatrickLipsinic cheers
Is it possible that automotive oil was used containing minimal amounts of zinc and phosphorus? PennGrade the exception.
I think it ran an Moment to much out of Oil for the upper Part of this lifter! This Part gets only oiled, going down, closing the Valve. Starting without full Oilpressure and Mags in, can cause that after a Periode of Standing. Older Engines need some Rounds of turning without Ignition to get enough oil in every Part of the Motor! But Guys, I am fixing only Oldtimer Eng ines on Cars. But it is interesting how similar the Airplane Engines are. Build to Work for a Long Time ! The Bore of the lifter can be welded and Rebored new. But check the Valve and
the Spring, If it is not closing correctly. This could be be another foult ! Pleased excuse my Writing.....the Correction worked in German....
Instablaster
Great job....informative...I overhauled my o320 for my experimental in 2015...
Some food for thought. I didn't have a cht probe for cyl2...turned out it had a broken piston ring do to overheat....to make matters worse....when engine overheated the oil temp exceeded limits....oil pressure down to 15 psi...and everyone knows what comes next..pre ignition..detonation...
Being 20 miles from airport, this was worse than going to the dentist. Upon teardown, crank..bearings and everything else ok. A cylinder overheating can cause engine to go south.
I suggest it's a good idea to have cam drilled on overhaul to make pressure spray vs splash...I'm also slowly getting rid of channel chrome cylinders. The new cylinders run cooler than chrome...not talking cermichrome...
This young man is inquisitive. Wanna bet he took apart his dad's lawnmower when he was 10?
Very interesting and informative. I used to have a Cardinal RG with the IO360 A1B6D and it had a stuck valve once but the mechanic was able to set it right immediately. This in depth video is the kind of thing many pilots wonder about but don't really have much background or knowledge in so thank you for putting these kinds of videos out there.
Another great video! Can’t wait to see your channel grow, please don’t stop doing this amazing job
Instead of using a rag for your pliers, always have some small strips og leather or bicycle innertube handy, the are really good tools for a lot of things
That was my first thought!
leather's a great idea. chop a bit off an apron lol. Maybe melting some rubber onto the plier teeth would work better than strips of innertube. In-fact filing the teeth down on a set of grips then coating what's left with rubber is going to be a useful piece of kit.
I'm not going to tell that pilot guy how to do his job but a large crap smeared towel with who knows what old stuff floating around on it doesn't seem pro and looks awkward at best...
Most mechanics usually have a shop towel or rag of some type around and grinding the teeth off a good pair of pliers or applying rubber to them isn't a good option either and if you have worked around aircraft everything needs to be accounted for so having less things around is better
You were in the right Pilot guy.
John Novis most mechanics also have more than one of the same common tool which (for the want of a special tool), can in a pinch be sacrificed for the greater good. Pilot guy uses a modified tool in a vid I recently saw.
I'm not here to complain about the three seconds of music in the intro either but surely you too can see the potential for contamination by using such a large and fluffy piece of towel as if it were an old sock or a piece of blue paper?!
consider duck tape, masking tape or teflon abrasion tape
That lifter failure is similar to what happened to my O-320H2AD. In mine, the lifter split in the middle and messed up the case good. I had the case welded and it went back together and ran fine for years!
Davco are the folk I use for problems like that, excellent work.
The h2ad and the rest of the 76 series motors are pigs for cam and follower problems due poor lubrication, the only time I've seen cam and followers this bad on an e2d like this though is pilot abuse or "that nut behind the column"
@@turboconqueringmegaeagle9006 It's Divco not Davco. The cam and lifter issue has become such a problem that Lycoming has gone to roller cams and lifters. The 76 series are such pigs that Lycoming won't touch them anymore- turn in a H2AD and you'll get an O-320 D2J back.
@@bsrktm1 it's pretty rare for my customers to go with factory re-man, I'm in the UK so shipping both ways kills it but with Divco (thanks for that) I can send my case with a parts supplier and it only costs $1000 for the re-worked case including all the shipping, can't speak highly enough of the service I've had from them.
In private hands an h2ad can get to it's tbo and beyond but with training it's unlikely and the rollers still haven't been stc'd for older engines here unfortunately.
I've got seven 172N's on the books still operating with the h2ad and three of them are on the school/hire, the only saving grace is being able to pull the followers without splitting the case, and with the integral accessory cover, it's a quick engine to build up if it does need splitting.
With filter inspections which are mandated on those things, I know when it's time to book it out for a couple of days to start throwing spanners about.
@@turboconqueringmegaeagle9006 I've seen lots of H2ADs make it to TBO. They are easy to build and aren"t terrible if they've had the T mod done. However, Lycoming doesn't really want to support them, plus all the parts are getting harder to get and more expensive every day. If you ever get a chance, trade it in for a D2J. It'll be cheaper in the long run.
What could possibly go wrong? Now we know. If a pictures is worth 1000 words then this video is worth an untold number of words.Much appreciation for taking the time to post this up.
Ron Tucker certainly my friend, thank you for watching. Just goes to show the importance of following manufacturers recommendations; they aren’t kidding
Anyone else notice three different cylinder bore finishes. A hard chrome, two nitrites and a cermanil. Been repaired on the cheap for a while.
Excellent spotting, mate!
Mark Smith This aircrafts engine owner(s) may have been cheap bastards (“CB”) but were practical. Such franken-motors are common in most commercial aircraft powerplants. So many people waste $$$ by replacing serviceable parts that have nearly new limits with brand new parts. At $2-3k per cylinder, that adds up quick.
Also noticed the different paint colors on the jugs. Those are codes for if the jugs have been bored over size. I think some of the jugs had different bore sizes. Green means 0.01" oversize. Don't recall the other codes. I would suspect that lifter boss failure to be due to spalling on the cam lobe putting side loads on the lifter.
@@sblack48 Might have been a green 10 over, mistake it for a blue nitrite. Orange is hard chrome, Two orange and a silver is cermachrome(rare) Blue is nitrite bore (factory Lycoming). Two orange and a silver is cerma nil (more rare). No marking is thru hardened (Superior Air Parts). commonly). Yellow on upper fins on the head would be long reach spark plugs.
Nobody puts on one P10. Gotta be pairs, and then nobody worth working with does P10's. Cylinders are relatively cheap in the long run. This aircraft has been neglected for a long time. Freshing up the powerplant will make sense if the airframe is good.
I just bit the bullet and ordered a factory rebuilt O-320 from Lycoming. The engine was making metal badly, had been rebuilt several times over the years, and was the original narrow deck unit that came with the plane. After 57 years it has done its duty. If Lycoming's lead times are anywhere near accurate I'll be back in the air in the spring.
and to think I was sweating bullets when you separated the case while it was standing on the crank. I just knew the free side of the case was going to fall away as you were looking for a place to set the other half down rendering case damage. Little did I know. LOL. Cheers from Louisiana.
Nice video of the internals of a 0-320. I used to build these back in the late 1980s. Thanks for sharing
That is not a 'worn out' or 'tired' engine failure. More likely the lifter got stuck in the bore because it was poorly maintained; when an engine start was attempted the camshaft can exert tremendous force with the leverage it has and with the large foot on the lifer bottom it snapped the 'head' off the lifter. Since the cases are matched set; the whole case is pretty much trash.
Agreed. Likely poor maintenance, but my guess is from gross excessive valve lash that further precipitated a hot stuck valve or perhaps a broken valve spring, resulting in piston / valve interference, and spiking of the valve train. An over-speed event is possible but unlikely since valve prints couldn't be seen on any piston tops. Unfortunately the piston top that matters wasn't shown so evidence of valve / piston interference can't be determined from this video. A shattered lifter is almost always the result of a piston smacking a valve, but it doesn't preclude a lifter fracturing by itself from accelerated fatigue, again from excessive (and continuous) valve lash. Those on board during this failure were fortunate a valve didn't break, leaving them powerless at best, or on fire at worst.
Hydraulic lifters on a 320. They will stick valves pretty easily though.
A&P IA, here, Right, not serviceable........
Neet!
Never seen the process of a complete strip-down.
Thanks!
Try to make sure that the music is at least 5-6 times louder than the spoken audio. It really helps the viewing experience...
Ahh. Memories of doing this in A&P school almost 20 years ago. Worked on this very design and also the six cylinder version with and without turbocharger. Good times.
I went to A&P school 30 years ago and we torn down and rebuilt radial engines out of tanks. An engine is an engine, but would have been nice to actually work on a modern aircraft engine...
@@GamingwithKandA The only "modern" engines we have are the Rotax 912ULS and 912iS. The engine in my 2001 car is more advanced than anything bolted to an aircraft at our hanger =(
You should not remove the cylinders that way, always try using a closed wrench (star shaped) first, and remove the pistons immediately when you take off a cylinder, loose pistons can damage the crankcase. Also the recommended order if you are disassembling the engine is to start with the oil sump then accessory housing and only in the end remove the cylinders.
I was cringing the whole time those pistons were just sitting there waiting to hit a ring on the case! I didn't see the Lycoming Overhaul manual at all during the video... that might have helped him with the correct order of disassembly and the proper names for major parts like the accessory case and the oil sump.
turn the music off when you are talking!
all the time would be better....
Don't add "music" to your productions. It adds NOTHING, especially when you don't appear to know how to set levels or mix so the "music" doesn't drown out your voice. Would wayyy rather just listen to the fast forward audio than that crap you call music. Otherwise, an interesting video..
Or altogether!!
Love that V-tail Bonanza! My first solo was in one of those and my father and I eventually bought our own and had a blast doing the engine R&R together. Definitely time for a replacement case. You should see what a dropped valve seat does to the internals. Broken/shattered pistons, scarred up combustion chambers, bent/broken valves, broken crankshafts, etc. It gets ugly when chunks of metal go wonky in the engine case/block. Best of luck w/ that engine. Should prove to be an education. lol
During my A&P training, if we showed up to class with any type of pliers with teeth, we failed that entire section and had to redo it.
Thank you for saying that. I am not an A&P, but I have built many auto engines over the years. When I saw him take the pliers to that rocker shaft, I just cringed.
Our teachers could care less. Maybe people should use some common sense
Built 1000hp street cars and cat and cummins in my trucks but plane engines are new to me. Like being a kid again. Cool to see something different thanks
100% man, I grew up building SBC's and 6BT's but an engine is an engine, some just run a little different
Good analysis. Subscribed!
Hey Juan, you don't have time to view videos...get back to work making them! :-)
Simple repair , send it to a crankcase repair facility and they will repair that check the rest of the case and recertify it for further use, need to do the rest but a lot cheaper than another engine.
Instead of TBO - i have seen good evidence for aero engine, oil sample/trend analysis and on condition OH only - most issues happen RIGHT after OH as well.
I was a bit concerned that the remaining half of the engine casing would fall down to the floor as the first half was removed...
It wouldn't ... the main bearing other half is holding up at least 3 areas and the piston connecting rods are still attached.
Yes too. That would be bad.
If you are referring to the Lycoming O-320 H2AD then way back in 1977 with the Introduction of this engine in the '77 172N Sky Hawk about 650 of the first 700 or so engines failed in 2 ways first the cams and lifters spauling and the aluminum oil pump gears also almost failed. Our club '77 172N 's engine went in for an AD and at 377.4 hours it was about to have a catastrophic engine failure ... Oil analyses was out of sight and metal all through the engine ... Long story short we dodged a bullet. At 2000+ hours we took the engine to Schneck in Illinois and their overhaul turned to be a pile of shit. Cam was installed wrong took it back and then it leaked oil for the rest of it's life as far as I know. I left the club after that. anyways the Lycoming O-320 H2AD we purchased in 1977 after exchange worked out great before the first overhaul at Schneck. We attributed its 2000 hours because we required all club members to Preheat the engine at or below 35 F and keep the RPM be low 800 to 900 till it reached operating temp.
Tis is very well repairable... probably caused by over heating, lack o or jus bad oil... this engine is pritty dry when opened to...(or is it pre washed?) y see lots of signs off bad burned oil..
...
..........
Guy said it was a spare engine, it could have been sitting awhile. But I agree that engine was abused, there's no way a tappet that large and substantial snapped in half from being "worn out". From the galling on the aluminum bore of the tappet, we can assume that the aluminum was so hot that it got soft and allowed the tappet to go sideways, which developed a crack. You can see a shiny area in the upper corner of the broken tappet shaft where the crack started and the grain pattern in the rest of it where the tappet was pulled apart.
You can see burned oil residue on the piston connecting rod upper end and on the valve springs. That type of damage usually occurs from lack of oil flow or not changing the oil at regular intervals.
The broken tappet bore can be repaired, but it'd be pointless, that whole engine is trash. Once an engine has been that badly overheated, it's not going to run right ever again.
Young man that repair is quite simple. A cylinder of non conductive material the same width as the bore can be rested there in that place while the aluminum material is built back up by stacking welds. The bore can be milled at a machine shop to be the correct diameter and height and strength. Metal replacement of a broken off part is largely what Tig Welders do. Many different solutions that exact problem. NO fear that it can't be fixed.
10:35 I was waiting for the other case half to fall off on the floor!
Yeah, I was wondering what the plan was to keep both halves from falling off while splitting... but it turned out the plan was dumb luck. Next time a case splitter would be handy. I gather the other end of that lifter was seized in the bore; one thing I'm pretty certain of is that a lifter doesn't just pop out of the side of a bore because it's old. Overall, I'd say this is pretty shade-tree but I feel like that's a bit insulting to the reasonably talented shade tree-mechanics.
change the brand of engine oil you are using. that lifter die not receive adequate lubrication. look at the brown varnish build-up inside that case.This is not an age related problem.
Sometimes simply changing the oil helps. People neglect their cars like that, so I doubt that 50 year old planes are treated any better
I worked in a part 145 engine shop.
Tore down over 100 engines, some had rods thrown through cases, many prop strikes, etc
Make sure to use compressed air to blow out oil holes in pushrods, they’re often plugged with sludge and starve corresponding rocker shaft of oil
A&P/IA
I've worked on many auto engines with high mileage and they rarely looked so abused as this Lycoming engine. The owner /operator needs some serious schooling on proper engine operation and maintenance. His life depends on it!
This isnt like a car engine, these engines are essentially run at redline for the majority of their life and need overhauled far more often that auto engines. If those high mileage engines you did had ran at redline all there life, they would look 10 times worse than this lycoming. General avation pilots also tend to be really cheap on their matinence
@@TheFlick175
Redline??
You call 2700rpm redline? 3000rpm??
That is relatively slow for an engine.
Camshaft rotates at half the speed of the crank, so at 3000rpm, camshaft is doing a
leisurely 1500rpm and the valves are opening n closing every 375rpm. These engines are designed for high torque, not horsepower, that's why HP numbers look dismally low compared to automotive engines.
Two things that kill an engine is high heat and lack of lubrication. By lack of lubrication I mean not changing the oil frequently enough.
The maintenance schedule may say change after so many hours or in automotive after so many miles. If it starts looking dirty waay before the scheduled time, CHANGE IT.
Oil is waay cheaper than an engine overhaul or worse, engine failure while flying. I've built engines for a living and the most prevalent cause of failure is not changing the oil often enough. And if your oil gets dirty soon after an oil change, your engine has "blowby", bad ring seal, and causes carbon to contaminate the oil fairly quickly... Preventive maintenance is key. The maintenance schedule is just a guide, not Gospel...
@@Pork-Chopper You do know that aircraft engines get their oil changed every 25 or 50 hours, right?. That is something like the automotive equivalent of every 1000-2500 miles.
And this engine does have a redline RPM that low, it may be slow for an "engine", but not for this engine. It is like saying that the world's largest engine, the Wartsila RTA-96C runs too slow just because it only turns at 15-106 RPM. It was designed that way. Sure it could theoretically turn faster, but not at 100% load, which is what happens when you put a properly sized propeller on an engine and run it at full throttle. Most GA airplanes run full throttle for at least the first several minutes of the flight, with the remaining cruise flight at 75% power for potentially hours. Or when running laps in the pattern, cycling from full throttle to idle as quick as every 5 minutes.
Try that in your car with a trailer attached at the base of a hill - start up and after a 5 minute warm up, give it full throttle for 15 minutes and then drive for 2 hours at nearly full throttle without stopping or letting off the gas at all. Or come to a stop at the base of a hill and go full throttle for 3 minutes, then idle for three minutes, then full throttle up hill for 3 minutes, over and over and over. And then do that for 2000 hours and see what the engine looks like inside at overhaul time.
@@MattRogersdesigns
I understand what you are saying,
Locomotive engines idle at 250rpm and redline at 950rpm, However, they are
5000 horsepower engines. Long stroke, low rpm engines are built for torque, not necessarily high horsepower, high rpm like
most hot rodders assume. As mentioned in
a previous reply, general aviation pilots are
cheap when it comes to maintenance. Longer stroke engines have higher piston speeds, so they do wear a bit faster. All I'm saying is you don't have to wait for a specific time, say , 50hrs to change the oil. If it looks like crap at 30 hours, change it. Oil will always be cheaper than an engine overhaul, and Oil, is, the life blood of an engine, the cleaner it is, the longer the engine will last. It goes without saying, if you run the shit out of it, it will require more oil changes n maintenance, and will not last as long, therefore the maintenance schedule, IMO, is just a that, a schedule. Nothing stops you from changing the oil more often. Look at it, smell it, feel it in your fingers, if it doesn't look, or smell fresh, change it. Let me put it another way, no one likes dirty pussy, clean n fresh is best... I prefer a clean one owner, with low hours on the clock...
@@MattRogersdesigns I think the warm-up is longer. ATIS, set radio / Instruments, Call ground, Taxie, Run-up / Checklist, Check engine gages as one of the items on the checklist - Light Camera Action. I can not do that is five minutes - I takes me about 10 to 15 minutes, depending If I have to wait to take off and or some other delay.
Take a x30 or more pic of the broken metal, great info. Thanks¡¡¡¡
The case half threads are supposed to be on the inside of the fasteners. Also, I hope you use torque plates when you put it back together, and it would have been nice to see the piston removal procedure.
that case will never be reassembled. It's history.
Thank goodness for the mute is it necessary to have loud music to watch this
Does anyone know what the music is he is playing? I don’t see it identified here.
Nice vid, but loosen the Pot nuts diagonally in future! As you would tighten them.
Excellent Video..... when are you uploading more?
The first thing I saw that was BAD was cold starting an engine and going to 1500 RMP right away. That is very hard on the bearings and camshaft. Start the engine at idle and let oil pressure build before you increase RMP above 1,000, your engine will thank you in longer life.
I don't know anything about aircraft engines , at what oil pressure should it have at idle, in the automotive world hot 30 psi at idle is good cold would show a lot more but never to exceed 100 psig at high rpm.
Does it matter because these air cooled engines that run hot are built on the loose side to compensate for expansion and contraction would running it lean cause much of the damage from running really hot?
R-21 ARNAV Loran in the panel... OH MY . Not see one of those and 25 years or more WHY?
this is a nice little channel so congrats I'm you 1101 subscriber hope to see that number grow.
Where is the broken off piece? If it wasn't inside the case somewhere it may have been assembled with broken case? The unsupported lifter may have failed because case was already broken? It wouldn't really be a difficult repair, build case up with TIG weld and have it re-machined. The way case splits makes it easy to clamp to a machine table.
New case half needed. However, the lifter broke for lack of lubrication... me 2cents...
Our inspection indicated the lifter fatigued and failed on its own and not do to any systematic lack of lubrication. Keep in mind, this engine was a little over TBO as well. The case half was also repairable and has been long since rebuilt and running well.
@@thatpilotguy4995 Those 'mushroom' lifters must be expensing more 'rocking' in the lifter bore than straight sidewall lifters...causing lifter fatigue and fracture... I've never seen it but heard VW's have problems with the mushroom lifters. I'll bet some VW cam and lifter makers know how to fix this problem.. better alloy or heat-treat, or simply more wear-resistant lifter bush material...so less side to side rocking after many hours.
@@Luminaring Older pushrod engines and being killed every day by "Energy Conserving " oil. IMHO This oil blend has very little Zinc and Phosphorus because they plug-up catalytic converters.Not a problem for overhead cam engines, due to weight reduction in valve train components. Boron has been the replacement element. Air cooled VW and Porsche engines are particularly susceptible due to high oil temperature, and lack of warm-up before full throttle! Research PennGrade oil for more information. 👍
Let me see a video when you set the camshaft gelar with the other gears..
I still confuse how to set them by see the marking on them..
Dude. Good to see some engine work. I had no problem with the music! Some interesting comments here. Would be good to see the completed work on this project including engine replacement. If you have time and energy and not flying.
The broken area can be built up with alloy welding & re-machined, good as new
certain types of welding are allowed by the FAA for repairs on aluminum & magnesium engine cases, TIG being the primary. It HAS to be done by a certified repair facility and inspected meticulously. The case can be re-bored and re-spotfaced to allow it to be reused.
comparing an auto mechanic to an aircraft mechanic... which one is more skilled?
@@lsx280 Respect to automotive techs, I was one and it takes skill/knowledge to make a good living. Car are becoming more complex each year and certification is almost mandatory nowadays. That being said, aircraft mechanics have to understand more systems and theory than the average car mechanic would deal with. Some skill sets that may go beyond general automotive knowledge are wood, metal and advanced composite structures, aerodynamic theory, flight control systems, pneumatics, hydraulic systems (complex type), weight and balance, communication and navigation systems, gas turbine engines, landing gear, ice, rain and lightning protection systems, fuel systems (complex), fire protection systems, inert gas systems, oxygen systems, AC/DC electrical systems, dope and fabric surfaces, rigging, regulations, drafting, non-destructive testing etc..., it's a long list. You have to be good at math. Understanding automotive principles in advance is a good start when learning aircraft maintenance technology. You have to take written and oral exams to prove proficiency. It's a notable achievement to earn the airframe and powerplant certificate and it carries a lot of responsibility, arguably more than a pilot carries. Many A & Ps use the knowledge gained to go into other lines of work.
I am an audio engineer. I can edit the audio of your future videos, and I have never offered that to anyone else. lol.. but you certainly remind me of a younger version of myself and I really did like this video a lot. By the way, I would not buy half of a case for this repair. I would definitely buy both halves because the bearings need to be exactly married and I just wouldn’t trust it. I have never messed with airplane engines before but I have overhauled car engines and I’m just starting to mess with airplanes now. Looking forward to more aircraft Content. Good luck!
please turn that noisy music down. can hear a word you're saying.
dufus I agree it’s too much and I can’t hear what’s being said
Changing the oil once in a while wouldn't have hurt.
Absolutely yes. Changing the oil on all aircraft engines every 25 to 35 hours of use is essential; and if done; the engine will likely go 3000 plus hours before an overhaul is needed. Having flown now for over 50 years; I have managed to accumulate around 1000 hours of flying time which tells me if I knew 50 years ago what I now now; I would have needed only one aircraft engine. So this engine failure appears bogus; or an engine where the owner did little or no maintenance.
@@terrydwelander422 Yeah I would agree. You think people would be less careless since an engine failure often results in a smoldering crater with NTSB investigators standing around it.
Thank you for the video.
If there is any additional information you can share about the engine, it would be appreciated. Specifically, the model (i.e. D2A, E3D, etc.), the number of total hours, the time since major, and whether or not a "top overhaul" was ever performed on it. I would also be curious to know if any cylinders were ever replaced and if the tappet failure that occurred was on such a cylinder.
In addition, did you happen to inspect the length of the pushrod that was associated with that particular lifter?
Sorry for all the questions, lots of curiosity over here. Thanks in advance if you happen to answer, and thanks again for your efforts on the video. Take care!
I could certainly go more in-depth and I might in future videos when the times comes, but I am still trying to keep the channel more based on entertainment than educational in regards to the maintenance videos as a precaution from a liability standpoint.
I know we all do it at some point and ratchets are stronger than they were but is it a generational thing? Routinely applying force to undo fastenings with a ratchet not a T-bar.
I agree with Gary Larson. Please turn off the music. I really enjoyed your video. You have a fine skill set. I am a new subscriber! I'm looking forward to your next video. Thanks
Was there corrosion pits on the lifter bodies?
Interesting video, thank you. So very much like dismantling an air cooled VW or Porsche engine!
i have a robinson r22 beta project not started in 20 years. the goal is just to fire the engine. should i start by removing the carb and cleaning it?
Thank u for your inspiration, knowledge and experience.
is there a workshop in usa that offers engine owner to overhaul his or her engine and thereafter getting certificate to legally do such overhaul back home ..for me in KL,Malaysia? thx
Whats the name of the band and the song that theyre playing during the teardown montage? Its sounds great. Love it.
Anyone know the answer?
Wear Willy do things like that. The tappit body wearing into softer metals bore as it has to over time. Once it gets so far it’ll start wobbling around and the process will accelerate rapidly. Eventually something will stick momentarily making one part or the other break.
I bet this mill was making some subtle tapping for quite a while. Another reason that the humble mechanics stethoscope can be your best friend. thats why pilots need to always be aware of any subtle new noises, vibrations ect..
I also think this case is salvageable though only by a dedicated facility. I would think They could build up and rebore that broken section, magnaflux and it would be good.
Did you find some f o d in the sump? Years ago some guy brought 2 IO 360 A1H to the shop. The engines were destroyed that bad that 2 cylinders on both engines could not be removed. F O D was found in each sump. One had a short 1/4-28 bolt The other had a small spring. The F O D got under the mushroom of the tappet body, breaking it off, then all hell broke loose.
Interesting thought, how far "extra" does the tappet have to move before it meets the hard stop of the case? A sizable chunk between the lobe and the tappet could drive the tappet into the case, but good grief, how would it ever get in just the wrong place at the wrong time. I thought maybe a loss of lubrication could cause the lobe to load or push the tappet in the direction of the break, but IIRC, the cam is turning down on the right side tappets, and turning up on the left side, so wrong case half for that idea.
Great video. i use those engine's. and run outs, on my air boat. what did you do with that one?.
I know this is a older video but first time for me as a a&p who has overhauled many of these Lycoming engines this is the second video I have watched case damage inflicted by improperly separating the case . Read the manual there is a tool to press it apart using wedges will damage the case lucky it was a easy one to get apart . Huge mis information on this teardown .
Cases are out there, usually a case goes for about the same as a crank. But that's for a used yellow tagged one. If it were mine, I'd find a case, and go with that to get it back in service. Have it overhauled and hope it doesn't go under. Or if it dimensionally checks okay just put it back in service. I had one overhauled at Divco, came back red tagged due to being too thin. Had to find another one. That's one thing they guarantee, that is the case is good. If not don't buy it.
Hella interesting. Thanks for explaining in detail all this stuff.
Man, I thought for sure the other half of that case was going to hit the deck at 10:24 !!!
looking back, me too! Got lucky haha
My thoughts exactly kids?
Great video, Like the choice of music. What track is that?
Certainly the case can be heliarc welded and machined to resuse it. I'd be replacing all the lifters, pushrods and maybe the rocker arms on an engine that old - while you are in there it's a lot cheaper than dealing with it assembled and giving you problems
Am sure you can exchange those cylinders for rebuilt ones and put new pistons in too
was thinking of a Beetle with a Lycoming Flat 4 Engine instead of its tiny Flat 4 engine 🤣
10:10 Where u get those orange wedges?
Get more tables they sell them at Sam's Club
Walmart and Lowes ❤😊
Does the oil get sampled routinely for metal contamination on light aircraft engines ? , I work on diesel locomotives and we sample at least once a month to hopefully pick up failing components before failure
I know critical components like a helicopter gearbox and larger commercial aircraft engines have magnetic chip detector's
Many do samples as every oil change and our shop recommends it. Up to the owner to do it though. About $30 a sample.
A few piston engines have magnetic plugs, I’ve only seen a single plug on turbo engine.
@@TheReadBaron91 Oil sampling could prevent many engine failure's and also save quite likely save a very expensive engine rebuilds . We get told what component may be failing or if its fuel or coolant contaminated its a very good diagnostic tool
@@tiggy2756 Most definitely. We can tell what metal it is and find out what component is coming from.
Brings me back to my A&P school days where I got to rebuild an 0-235. Some one took the mag gears off and the instructor freaked out. He was worried we'd never get it timed right. I grabbed the manual and had it timed in no time at all. By swapping good jugs and pistons around that engine became the running test stand engine for tuning and running. Last I heard they still use it. Me and my lab partner were the last ones to have it apart.
Your instructor was worried about not being able to retime the mags to the engine? Then why tf is he an instructor??
What is the engine maintennce schedule on one of these aircraft? FAA regulations used to say engine had to be rebuilt after 300 hours of flight time.
So.... where's the chunk? And is there a string attached to the lifter opposite the broken one?
I sincerely hope the missing chunk is present, because if it isn't then it was previously reassembled without...
That looks like a recall and redesign problem.
That kind of failure should NEVER happen under any circumstances!!!!!
No recalls in aviation really, they become SBs and ADs, and usually only covered my the manufacturer if it’s still under warranty.
sir is that ok millennium cylinder as replacement alternate to lycoming cylinder? but my engine block is Lycoming...
Are the lifters much larger in diameter than I might see on cars or ol' fashioned American motorcycles?
They seem huge.
Whats the song that starts at 4:30ish?
What was the TSMO on that engine (if it had one), and TT?
A little more on WHEN the engine failed.. on startup? In the air? During warmup? I’ve seen valves freeze in the guides on engines that have sat a long time. Are those lifters prone to that type of failure? There is more here than meets the eye.
Who said you can't super glue that piece? I did it on my engine and worked fine, still kicking!!
Unacceptable if this is a commercial plane.
Great video! As per a Lycoming both case half should be from the same mold as they came out of factory. You can not swap one half with another. Each engine is different, and ware out differently.
Oh thats interesting, I didn't know that. The folks to spoke to on the phone with the company doing the work had told me otherwise, either way its no big deal because they were able to successfully repair it.
Awesome! Have fun brotha!
Foureyed Fox I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU ON THIS!!
MIXING CASES WOULD BE LIKE MIXING RODS AND RODCAPS
OR MAIN CAPS AND BLOCKS!
MACHINED TOGETHER?
STAYS TOGETHER!!!!
@@thatpilotguy4995 & Foureyed Fox. Look at the engine split at 09.40 ish. How do mirror image parts come out of the same mould?
Decent half inch power bar would save you some elbow wear undoing the cylinder base nuts
When we have a failure the first thing we do is getting oil analysis to see what the oil tells us. Then I do a failure analysis on the seized lifter and bore. The failed Parts almost always tell a story.
Made me nervous watching that second case half just holding onto the crank by the oil film on the mains! Interesting failure mode on the fragged lifter there! Did it seize in the bore and then the cam blew it out? Or did it just fatigue fail and hang up?
haha yeah me too, it totally slipped my mind to leave a case bolt or two in. And in regards to the lifter failure, I'm thinking the lifter itself simply fatigued and failed; there were no signs of oil starvation so we ruled systematic failure out.
He's a newbie, it's ok to make mistakes as long as you learn from them that's what training is for and why newbies are closely supervised
Can you get a new casting for that or do you need an entire new block?
11:05 "these are lifters". No, those are tappets. The tappets actuate the lifters.
Did anybody ask about your canvas hangar yet? do you know anything about that, or is it rented/leased etc.
Question: WHY try to remove the rocker shafts instead of pulling the jugs and disassembling them on the bench?
Pity that there are no close ups of the damaged parts which means it's impossible to definitively comment on what went wrong. But seeing that the other cam followers are fine and show no sign of distress from heat or lack of lubrication my educated guess is a faulty cam follower. That sort of thing just should not happen with a supposedly over designed low revving engine.
A very nice video Son. I enjoyed the music. Really!
Nice watch! What is it?
Found your channel today and wish you all the best! Been wrenching for a while, and glad to see an A&P in training! I'm curious, which airport are you based at?
Accessory plate and sump?
I know nothing about aircraft engines but it is possible to build up an engine case with weld and machine back down. Just curious if this meets FAA guide lines.
I'm really surprised about the deposits of the pistons.
dtiydr leaded fuel does this
@@friedclutch97 Aha ok, it doesn't exist leaded fuel where I live due to its toxicity so I have never seen that, but then guess it make sense in US.
I guess this is a typical cause of full power on cold engine! Consider the first 40 sec there is no lubrification in the valve lifter channels in the upper and outer part. Mike Bush teaches one start < 5° Celsius is 500hour airborne! If oil is warmer than 60° no metal part is touching!
Thank you for doing this video. I fly an RV9A with this kind of engine, i understand the stick drawing of how an engine works but , seeing you take it apart was really an interesting visualization. Also the casing failing with the lifter that is pretty spooky , did you say how many hours?
The lifter seized do to carbon build up that prevented lubrication
Use some form of decarbonize such as gumout on rizlone used for decades on engines
Newer engine oil also prevent carbon build up
Have d35 Bonanza with stuck exhaust valve e225
The stuck valve was not warn out
The lifters shouldn't get as hot as the valve stem and won't suffer from carburized deposits in the same way.
The rest of the followers were all spalled so the one in the damaged socket probably welded itself to the cam.
I'm surprised you have valve guide problems in a big continental though as they normally have stem seals.
@@turboconqueringmegaeagle9006
My IO520s IO470s do not, the E225 also does not have valve stem seals. Never have in the TCDS or TCM overhaul manual.
The CR is 7.5:1, which was meant for WWII fuel and oils on the E225, just after WWII it was manufactured. which caused the valve sticking issue. The aircraft was flown with a faulty EGT and ran very rich and built up carbon. Had to remove the cylinders. hone valve guides and media blast the valves. Change oils and all is good.
www.phillips66lubricants.com/product/xc-aviation-oil/ 1950 CR 7.5:1, 1957: 8:1, 1961, 8.5:1 on big continental engines.
cheers.
@@turboconqueringmegaeagle9006
www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/SSP-475.pdf
High oil temp can cause carbon to develop. O320 have had issues with the Thermostatic Oil Cooler Bypass Valve sticking
www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/SI1255A%20Thermostatic%20Oil%20Cooler%20Valve%20Replacement.pdf
@@turboconqueringmegaeagle9006
here is another issue with o320s
www.yeeles.com/Reference/Hi-Temps.pdf High Oil temp, without lubrication the lifter body can much hotter then a valve stem, like friction stir welding.
Good video,your failure could be metal fatigue or my guess is a stress riser at the point where the inside counter-bore of the lifter ends . or right at the oil hole in the lifter.There is a reason it failed.the other 7 didn't.look at the cam lobe a lot closer for marks.It's imperative you find the cause,if that was a Boeing jet you now have 385 lives depending on you.Be seriously there was a cause,old oil,high temp,metal fatigue ,etc. nice video you did.