Man versus machine ; man wins despite the hurdles thrown up. Excellent little video. Remember trying to start an 8 cylinder Gardner with almost no battery. Lifted all the valves, then wondered which was best option to drop them. Engine started running on ONE cylinder . Nearly died laughing but off it went from there.
A couple of things i used to go by after decades spent as sea as crew man on deep sea trawlers,prawn trawlers,lobster boats and tuna boats. When you are thinking about going to sea on a different boat # 1 check the overall condition of the vessel ...rust everywhere rigging ,blocks,winches and wire ropes all rusted...walk away, # 2 check the engine room if it is a mess oil leaks/fuel leaks rusted and unpainted pipe work/ engines and electrical equipment pumps etc ...walk away # 3 check wheelhouse for old equipment wiring jury rigged /untidy and hanging down everywhere ....walk away # 4 life raft ...in survey # 5 crew accommodation dirty /untidy lack of fresh air ventilation and stinks...walk away # 6 galley.. dirty ,unkempt ,disorderly and bad cook ( every vessel in the port knows who is a good cook and who is bad and which boat feeds the crew properly) ....If ANY of the first 4 things are visible...walk away because it is a lot easier to walk away while she is berthed than it is to swim away in the dark of night in a 40 knot wind with a huge swell rolling... if the last two are present walk away because you know you are not going to be treated properly and likely to be underpaid
though if i'm not wrong I remember a program about a group of youngsters in Alaska being out on supervised parole .... And at least one of them ended up on a small fishing boat with a rusty mast AND the owner had the gal to tell him to go up there and repair something rusty - while I as a viewer wonders if the ladder on the mast considering how it looks will BREAK while the guy is up there. In that situation you are in a narror place betwen two hard things: saying NO, go to the parole officer and risk being transfered back to prison OR (and remember normal insurance isnt inforce and also workplace safety rules is weakend) risk falling down 5 meters due to a unsafe ladder. I would say : shame ON the parole officer.
To be honest Joe in the early 70s we ran 2 Atkinsons with the Gardner 180 engines and an Atkinson with the Gardner 150 engine alongside a fleet of other commercials , those trucks were running long distance of a night time and shunting in the day time and the only time they were cold was on a Saturday night ( apart from servicing) but well after 100000 plus miles they never missed a beat . The Gardner and lister diesel to my mind are two of the best engines out there, and that’s why so many are fitted in various boats ,but you can’t blame the engine if there not looked after and serviced
In the early 70s in NZ I assembled Atkinsons. cab from Australia but the rest from the UK. Several optional Gardner and Cummins diesels. The Gardners did great reliable work on highway running but lacked torque for forest and off road use. Every truck was different, air braking systems were advancing in design so each truck incorporated this. God knows how future maintenance off road would be planned for spares. Then the Japanese trucks arrived, good all-round design which took over the market. The first was the Toyota Landcruiser, 4.2 litres and robust. Farmer's Landrover orders crashed. Then Fuso. Just a harbinger of UK auto industry negligence.
@@Wornout1 wont work the scews have to be removed from the tightening holes and placed into the loosening holes, requires about half an inch just for the screw.
Gardner engines were the best ever made my boss said that should one fail to do half a million miles he would trow it to the scrap he's I worked for him 14 years and we never had to dispose of a Gardner.
The ERF's i worked on used Gardner engine's and i went on the training course at the Eccles factory. Lovely engine to fix, the injection pump levers really helped to diagnose faults. No stupid tech to worry about. I still have the original manual.
My Gardner story, pre-war, from a friend's Grandad is that when the winter weather came in at Shap they pulled into the Jungle Cafe where they were snowed in for four days. When they emerged the lorries were totally buried, his Grandad's Leyland in there ticking away as he'll left it idling to stop it freezing up and being impossible to start. He was the hero as he tow started a few before heading off to Glasgow.
Mr McCool, my mate was a fan of the Gardner engines. I came across your channel since his recent passing and now appreciate for myself the simplicity and sophistication of these wonderful engines, many thanks Sir.
I used to work In a small sawmill and we had a i think a six cylinder Gardner bus engine powering a 57kva motor to run the bandsaws, when you were cutting, you could tell how tough the log was by the sound of the engine, it ran sweet as anything, only prob, it didnt like the winter starts....had to use a gas blow lamp to put warm air into the intakes.. fun days!
As below I worked for a large haulage company in the 1970's about 30 Atkinsons with 180 Gardeners and there were a few older ones just on shunting , I worked there 9 yrs and never removed a engine , wonderful machines .
Very interesting and educational video. I felt your pain as you so clearly explained the nightmare with which you had to deal. I love to hear the clear, logical command of language. Hats off to your excellent thinking, professional work and perseverance! Thanks very much and greetings from Germany.
An interesting video Joe. I suppose the moral of the story is if the skipper insists on they way the job should be done, let him do it! Once a job has been bodged as you say, it becomes an ongoing nightmare.
Being a mechanic and dealing with rust compounds every issue but in this case i would have cut that pulley off especially when it's not in use no matter what the captain/owner has to say.The tail was wagging the dog.
@@malachy1847 I had o think about that one malachy1847 as been in the US almost 40 years and had forgotten about B.O.C but i use the hot wrench liberally here in the rust belt of New England fixing trucks.
We ran a fleet of Gardner engine ERF's. The old adage was always - service them as per Garners recommendations - allow them to breath properly - ensure they have clean fuel - and clean the braking system and tanks of oil regularly. They all gave tremendous service and most did 350,000 plus miles and were relatively good on MPG and if we sold any, there were always a number of people who wanted to purchase them!
I worked in a yard back in seventies, we had an ERF with the Garden 150 engine, this old truck was used a shunter around the yard. To start it in the morning we would give a short tow and it was left running all day to be used at any given moment, for what ever reason and can’t remember one the lads decided to check the oil level only to find the dip stick was red rusty but still it was started every morning, I left about 4 years later and I bet that little old ERF is still running somewhere. Lol
Spent years working on these engines back in the day, still got some special tools, c spanner, block spanner ,injector puller, always rewardiing after rebuilding a Gardner, world away from the laptop ,plug in rubbish nowadays
The politicians who pass the laws will not let us go back to those days. Today the diesels have lost their robust qualities with their super high injection pressures. One good thing about common rail diesel, they start easier as they self prime the fuel rail.
Please Joe, change the title. Best engines ever made. If I could get one into my Mercedes I would! That one definitely a tap ropey but not Gardner's fault.
This is why there are no longer any Vulcan aircraft flying; the ground crew who know about old hydro-pneumatic systems are dying off. This sort of thing is a great pity, because old diesels like this work, work well and likely outperform more modern systems on low power applications.
Definitely a real handling that job turned into, thanks for telling us about it. Have got myself into a handling a few times as well but got there in the end.
Hi Joe, your picture to me looked like a Fenner flanged split taper bush toothed belt pulley to me, whereby the 3 grub screw holes, 2 are for tightening the split bush onto the shaft (the 2 opposite each other the thread is formed into the taper of the pulley body) and the third grub screw hole is for splitting the pulley from the split bush (the thread is formed into the split bush and to dismantle remove the screws from the other "holes" (very important to unlock the bush) then screw one of the grub screws into the 3rd hole which will "jack" the bush and pulley apart, use penetrating oil to help the bush slide along the shaft, I only know this as I spent 18 months fitting taper lock split bush pulleys on Perkins diesel engines (4000 series) and since them days come across these type of pulleys frequently on agri machinery),
Don't comprehend the pully on reverse flipped around. How were the grub screws tightened to hold to shaft with no available clearance? Was it tightened and then pressed down and locked with rust over time? Someone in the past screwed up and then you had to also deal with that prior error. Leaky Jabsco pump? figure out why it's leaking and fix it. People let things go till they finally break badly. I have 4 Jabsco engine pumps and they are from 1970 and right now are not leaking.
Loved the story. Having worked on a lot of engines, Cat, Cummins and Detroit Diesel, I can empathize with you as the owners hardly look after the equipment. You almost need to take your magic wand down to the boat as that what they seem to expect from the mechanic. Good job
Back in the early 70s, some ERF trucks had Gardner engines. They were not popular with the drivers - ! But if you had an ERF with a Cummins engine, happy driver - ! 😊
I used to go out boatfishing with a bunch of older lorrydrivers, they always could tell you what engine was in a boat. Because most of them had marinised lorry engines in them.
Joe ! What a brilliant video a typical job that grows arms and legs as set to work on it I feel your pain 🤯 You were right you should of overruled the skipper, I've been in a similar position ( it happens ) different trade etc. The skipper was probably worried about cost/downtime and your a nice bloke God Bless you Joe Kind Regards CC
My father worked for Gardner Diesels for over 30 years. The factory (as far as I know) is still there. But it isn't Gardner Diesels anymore. I am not sure if it even makes diesel engines. They started out making marine diesels, and then moved into lorry and bus engines. Most of the deep sea lifeboats around the British Isles are powered (or were) by Gardner diesels, Becasue they were so reliable. No engine in the 1960's left the factory without doing 50 hours running on a test bed without fault. They even polished the connecting rods inside the engines! Many of the faults and problems you describe seem to come from putting what was intended as a lorry engine inside a ship.
Er, no. There are many automotive engines out there running away quite happily in boats. The problems I faced stemmed from sloppy work on the part of a previous mechanic, simple as that.
Having seen in previous videos of yours how you have repaired and reconditioned LWs and LXs which have been half buried in a field somewhere for decades, I must admit I wondered what you had found that would be a nightmare for you to tackle. But it was just dramatic licence. Never the less it was good to hear how the problem was solved. Thanks for sharing.
Maybe I missed something . I had the same problem with an Allen key that would not reach . All I did was cut it in half and extended it with a bit of round bar welded to it ?
@@jonstaatz3686 Yeah I can see where you are coming from. Only other explanation is the gear pully has ridden up the shaft over time through vibration. Coincidentally becoming tighter as it moved. Who knows?
Great vid Joe. We usually see on these fishing boats they wind the buffer in to combat the worn governor and they keep doing it until I get a call saying it’s run away
Well done sir....The last gardener I had an conection with was a sreight 8 turb charged Gardener in a Foden 8 wheel waste truck. Got it brand new.....gee that engine liked to burn oil. 1980s Didnt pull very well either. Shame they closed down.....sorry to say.....but did not fit in in todays world....pity. Nice looking engine they where to....all alloy.
@05:50 - I wouldn't be happy either!😅 Moral of the story is an old one - tell the customer(and do) what needs to be done(I know it's easier said than done) , and not what they think should be done - horses for courses. 👍 Very interesting video.
Double it and add half! That's what I tell people after 40 years of working on it about estimating time and money on old rusty equipment I've never seen before. I have seen it take 10 hours for 3 very expierienced mechanics, a certified welder, and a machinist to get one inaccessible stainless steel Phillips screw out that held up a normally 8 hr clutch replacement! plus, They're happier if I get done under budget and sooner than I said. It got to the point that the mechanics in the shop started pulling the most troubsome bolts out of the new trucks on arrival and antisiezing them so we weren't spending all night alongside the road on call in the winter dicking with a stupid twisted or rounded off bolt of some kind later! Locktite works great for pressed in u-joints and other items in corrosive environments. It stays put, seals it, locks it, prevents rust, and just 300 deg Fahrenheit from a propane torch loostens it. As soon as you sand the rust off of shafts or bores they're loose. Locktite them first, and ALWAYS lubricate stainless fastners, especially that thread into stainless. I can spin a new nut on a new stainless bolt with my fingers that you will twist the bolt off with a wrench trying to get back off just from galling.
I work on marinised engines fitted to narrowboats and so identify with all that you say. Just a point, how did they tighten the tapered bush grub screws in the first instance it being so close to the drive flange? Lovely video, thanks.
Didn't watch every word of the video, so still not sure what the actually reason for the loss of power was. Assume it needed an injection pump overhaul, all the trouble was getting it out of the engine. Anyhow to my point, virtually the whole fleet of trucks where I served my apprenticeship ran Gardner diesels. After the trucks were beyond a useful life for long distance work, they continued on with local deliveries till the truck bodies were virtually felling apart. The motors would then be pulled out, and sold to competing trawler builders to start another complete life after being converted for marine use. Wonderful low revving motors, and at ridiculous mileages with a set of new conrod bearings, cylinder linings, and rings, reconditioned injectors, ..... would just go on forever.
Hi Joe. Could it have been possible to drill out the grub screws on the taperlock hu b from the back side then give the pulley a good belt to release the taper, just a thought, I certainly know what you are talking about with corrosion on marine engines, I have not started work on the old gardner in the boat that I inherited but ,when I do I will be in contact. Frank McH Western Australia
I know the owner of a 75’ vintage yacht here on the coast of British Columbia, he told me he was having some issues with his Gardner engine and ended up flying a Gardner expert mechanic out from the UK to have a look. After about an hour the mechanic came up to the bridge and told the owner it was all fixed. When the owner asked him if he was going to start it up and test it, the guy just said “she’ll work!” and returned to the UK that afternoon… he was right…
Joe you have the patience of Job. Been there but learned a valuable lesson. My remedy was to quote a price for the job that made the customer take a deep breath. Human nature being what it is, obliging a person and doing an awkward job for people, the result is often a case of, eaten bread is soon forgotten.
You quote a price based on what you can see needs doing and double it. Almost certainly, the job will be 2x more difficult than that. Been there. Done that. You can pay me by the hour (I don’t ** about) until the job is done. I will do it right. Any unseen trouble will be notified to you. But don’t ask me to bodge it. That stuff costs lives.
I did my apprenticeship as a Diesel Fitter - Mechanic. M cool is a mechanic able to build new parts etc a Fitter just replaces. Parts. I wish I’d stand with it
I used to build assemble the fuel pump cambox assembly at Gardner diesel from start to Finnish that pulley should have never been fitted they would have had to remove it from the chain drive assembly in the crank case to take it off along with the whole cambox assembly just for interest my fitters stamp to indicate who assembled each part was double EE if you seethat any where on the cambox it's one of mine I built them for my last five to six years at gardners
All I can say is I hope you got paid. Don't put an awkward customer on your responsibility, it's not always easy to be assertive, and trying to please the customer isn't wrong, the customer stuffed you around, life is always an arm wrestle from time to time and the ones where you might wish you had or thin you could have done better are always a lesson to learn from but it still doesn't make it your fault. The only oversight was not having the part you needed when you first showed up. Great video, thanks for that.🙃
Just a query did the engine have either a 2 to 1 or a 3 to 1 marine gearbox fitted because I remember that when I assembled those gearboxes the flywheel was different so the reduction gear assembly could be fitted imitated the gearboxes also during my 18 years at gardners I was made redundant in 1986
👍👌👏 Yes, Sir, you are absolutely right! You should've walked away but not without letting pay the skipper for your effort for getting there and back. But I guess over time and with more experience you will learn when you should walk away from a job. 😁 ;-) 😋😜👅🐕😘 Thanks a lot for making teaching explaining recording editing uploading and sharing. Best regards luck and especially health to both of you.
Like everthing there is always a person who has had a bad experience Having grown up when Gardner Diesels were in their Hey Day, 1950's -1970's was always a solid reliable engine For Marine use, they had no competition, they remained the favourite of British Bus manufacturers right up till the late 1980's and the Hawker Siddley takeover A Chinese Chinese junk, built all of Teak and Mahogany was not complete without a Gardiner
People such as yourself, Joe, are a rare and unfortunately dying breed . Thank you for sharing your work.
Extremely interesting 👌
Man versus machine ; man wins despite the hurdles thrown up. Excellent little video.
Remember trying to start an 8 cylinder Gardner with almost no battery. Lifted all the valves, then wondered which was best option to drop them. Engine started running on ONE cylinder . Nearly died laughing but off it went from there.
A couple of things i used to go by after decades spent as sea as crew man on deep sea trawlers,prawn trawlers,lobster boats and tuna boats. When you are thinking about going to sea on a different boat # 1 check the overall condition of the vessel ...rust everywhere rigging ,blocks,winches and wire ropes all rusted...walk away, # 2 check the engine room if it is a mess oil leaks/fuel leaks rusted and unpainted pipe work/ engines and electrical equipment pumps etc ...walk away # 3 check wheelhouse for old equipment wiring jury rigged /untidy and hanging down everywhere ....walk away # 4 life raft ...in survey # 5 crew accommodation dirty /untidy lack of fresh air ventilation and stinks...walk away # 6 galley.. dirty ,unkempt ,disorderly and bad cook ( every vessel in the port knows who is a good cook and who is bad and which boat feeds the crew properly) ....If ANY of the first 4 things are visible...walk away because it is a lot easier to walk away while she is berthed than it is to swim away in the dark of night in a 40 knot wind with a huge swell rolling... if the last two are present walk away because you know you are not going to be treated properly and likely to be underpaid
Awesome advice.
though if i'm not wrong I remember a program about a group of youngsters in Alaska being out on supervised parole ....
And at least one of them ended up on a small fishing boat with a rusty mast AND the owner had the gal to tell him to go up there and repair something rusty - while I as a viewer wonders if the ladder on the mast considering how it looks will BREAK while the guy is up there.
In that situation you are in a narror place betwen two hard things: saying NO, go to the parole officer and risk being transfered back to prison OR (and remember normal insurance isnt inforce and also workplace safety rules is weakend) risk falling down 5 meters due to a unsafe ladder.
I would say : shame ON the parole officer.
To be honest Joe in the early 70s we ran 2 Atkinsons with the Gardner 180 engines and an Atkinson with the Gardner 150 engine alongside a fleet of other commercials , those trucks were running long distance of a night time and shunting in the day time and the only time they were cold was on a Saturday night ( apart from servicing) but well after 100000 plus miles they never missed a beat . The Gardner and lister diesel to my mind are two of the best engines out there, and that’s why so many are fitted in various boats ,but you can’t blame the engine if there not looked after and serviced
In the early 70s in NZ I assembled Atkinsons. cab from Australia but the rest from the UK. Several optional Gardner and Cummins diesels. The Gardners did great reliable work on highway running but lacked torque for forest and off road use. Every truck was different, air braking systems were advancing in design so each truck incorporated this. God knows how future maintenance off road would be planned for spares. Then the Japanese trucks arrived, good all-round design which took over the market. The first was the Toyota Landcruiser, 4.2 litres and robust. Farmer's Landrover orders crashed. Then Fuso. Just a harbinger of UK auto industry negligence.
My Dad had an Atkinson 6 wheeler & an Albion 8 wheeler Both had Gardner 180 's were reckoned to be the best Engines money could Buy
@@Wornout1 wont work the scews have to be removed from the tightening holes and placed into the loosening holes, requires about half an inch just for the screw.
@@johnward536 ah your not wrong I forgot about putting them in the loosening holes .and I've got a bucket full of em😊 have a good day.
Gardner engines were the best ever made my boss said that should one fail to do half a million miles he would trow it to the scrap he's I worked for him 14 years and we never had to dispose of a Gardner.
Every time someone cuts a corner, there's a problem for someone later. Usually someone else.
Thanks for sharing, I've been there too often.
The ERF's i worked on used Gardner engine's and i went on the training course at the Eccles factory. Lovely engine to fix, the injection pump levers really helped to diagnose faults. No stupid tech to worry about. I still have the original manual.
Do they still make em?
Proper engineer!
And all the tools in the workshop indicate the huge experience this guy has.
My Gardner story, pre-war, from a friend's Grandad is that when the winter weather came in at Shap they pulled into the Jungle Cafe where they were snowed in for four days. When they emerged the lorries were totally buried, his Grandad's Leyland in there ticking away as he'll left it idling to stop it freezing up and being impossible to start. He was the hero as he tow started a few before heading off to Glasgow.
Gardner's always start .use the handle. If warm start by pulling the primer levers on each cylinder in firing order
Mr McCool, my mate was a fan of the Gardner engines. I came across your channel since his recent passing and now appreciate for myself the simplicity and sophistication of these wonderful engines, many thanks Sir.
Great stuff. We need more engineers like you and young apprentices willing and able to!
I used to work In a small sawmill and we had a i think a six cylinder Gardner bus engine powering a 57kva motor to run the bandsaws, when you were cutting, you could tell how tough the log was by the sound of the engine, it ran sweet as anything, only prob, it didnt like the winter starts....had to use a gas blow lamp to put warm air into the intakes.. fun days!
As below I worked for a large haulage company in the 1970's about 30 Atkinsons with 180 Gardeners and there were a few older ones just on shunting , I worked there 9 yrs and never removed a engine , wonderful machines .
I live on a narrowboat with a 3LW. No problems with it, triples run so sweetly and evenly! Thanks Joe...!
😊😊000000000000000000😊
Very interesting and educational video. I felt your pain as you so clearly explained the nightmare with which you had to deal. I love to hear the clear, logical command of language. Hats off to your excellent thinking, professional work and perseverance! Thanks very much and greetings from Germany.
I am a salt water marine mechanic since 1976.
Very familiar with salt corrosion.
Nice channel 👍 Thank you.
From NY America long Island.
I am I am I am.
An interesting video Joe. I suppose the moral of the story is if the skipper insists on they way the job should be done, let him do it! Once a job has been bodged as you say, it becomes an ongoing nightmare.
Being a mechanic and dealing with rust compounds every issue but in this case i would have cut that pulley off especially when it's not in use no matter what the captain/owner has to say.The tail was wagging the dog.
'' Hand me the B.O.C. Spanner''... but unfortunately you can't do that in the bowels of an Engine Room.
@@malachy1847 I had o think about that one malachy1847 as been in the US almost 40 years and had forgotten about B.O.C but i use the hot wrench liberally here in the rust belt of New England fixing trucks.
Interesting story well told. Enjoyed that. Thank you and keep going.
A real engineer, reminds me of so many I've either served with or have been family.
Gardner engines from personal experience are pretty indestructible
We ran a fleet of Gardner engine ERF's. The old adage was always - service them as per Garners recommendations - allow them to breath properly - ensure they have clean fuel - and clean the braking system and tanks of oil regularly. They all gave tremendous service and most did 350,000 plus miles and were relatively good on MPG and if we sold any, there were always a number of people who wanted to purchase them!
I worked in a yard back in seventies, we had an ERF with the Garden 150 engine, this old truck was used a shunter around the yard. To start it in the morning we would give a short tow and it was left running all day to be used at any given moment, for what ever reason and can’t remember one the lads decided to check the oil level only to find the dip stick was red rusty but still it was started every morning, I left about 4 years later and I bet that little old ERF is still running somewhere. Lol
Excellent description. We all get into a hanlin every now and again. That gear would have been cut off if i was there !
Superb communication from Joe....great fellow! ..used to boatfish & use chaps like him here in Cornwall. Gardeners rule!
Spent years working on these engines back in the day, still got some special tools, c spanner, block spanner ,injector puller, always rewardiing after rebuilding a Gardner, world away from the laptop ,plug in rubbish nowadays
The politicians who pass the laws will not let us go back to those days. Today the diesels have lost their robust qualities with their super high injection pressures. One good thing about common rail diesel, they start easier as they self prime the fuel rail.
Please Joe, change the title. Best engines ever made. If I could get one into my Mercedes I would!
That one definitely a tap ropey but not Gardner's fault.
Had that 8LX for 40yrs. Serviced every 250hr in the ocean and the bay and Never had a problem highly recommended.
there is a paste for corrosion called Mastinox and a preserving oil called fluid film one can use
Had 3 Gardner generators on board great engines no problems over the 10 years on board
What an interesting and entertaining video. Your job description of how you’ve overcome the problems that you encountered is marvellous.
Spent many an hour overhauling 6LW's during my apprenticeship in the early 60's. Great video, brought back memories.
well done JOE , it`s nice to know that mear mortals like me struggle sometime`s and expert`s like yourself struggle as well .we are all human`s
The way to deal with that sort of skipper is to tell him to have a nice day and find another mechanic.
Absolutely, mind you the skipper paid for the time it took.
👍👌👏 Exactly! But please not without letting him pay for the effort to get there and back!
Best regards, luck and health in particular.
Thanks you have forgotten more than most remember not many like you around today .
Thank you Joe,
Another great presentation
you're a legend Joe! I'm in the process of installing a hot water system using the heat from my 5lw as described in one of your videos
Love this, but hardly a Gardner problem.
What a different world from the car and motorcycle sphere. But it seems you have just as much fun as we do! Wonderful presentation.
I wonder how long it will be before there is nobody left to keep these engines running 🤔excellent work and great video.
This is why there are no longer any Vulcan aircraft flying; the ground crew who know about old hydro-pneumatic systems are dying off.
This sort of thing is a great pity, because old diesels like this work, work well and likely outperform more modern systems on low power applications.
If they tighten up the grub screw then it must be possible to unlock them
On a taper lock bush you remove the two grub screws that lock it in place then fit one to the other side and tighten to release the taper lock.
Definitely a real handling that job turned into, thanks for telling us about it. Have got myself into a handling a few times as well but got there in the end.
Great content and nice dialect, I understand all of what you are saying and you gained another subscriber. Thanks
Hi Joe, your picture to me looked like a Fenner flanged split taper bush toothed belt pulley to me, whereby the 3 grub screw holes, 2 are for tightening the split bush onto the shaft (the 2 opposite each other the thread is formed into the taper of the pulley body) and the third grub screw hole is for splitting the pulley from the split bush (the thread is formed into the split bush and to dismantle remove the screws from the other "holes" (very important to unlock the bush) then screw one of the grub screws into the 3rd hole which will "jack" the bush and pulley apart, use penetrating oil to help the bush slide along the shaft, I only know this as I spent 18 months fitting taper lock split bush pulleys on Perkins diesel engines (4000 series) and since them days come across these type of pulleys frequently on agri machinery),
Don't comprehend the pully on reverse flipped around. How were the grub screws tightened to hold to shaft with no available clearance?
Was it tightened and then pressed down and locked with rust over time?
Someone in the past screwed up and then you had to also deal with that prior error.
Leaky Jabsco pump? figure out why it's leaking and fix it. People let things go till they finally break badly. I have 4 Jabsco engine pumps and they are from 1970 and right now are not leaking.
Loved the story. Having worked on a lot of engines, Cat, Cummins and Detroit Diesel, I can empathize with you as the owners hardly look after the equipment. You almost need to take your magic wand down to the boat as that what they seem to expect from the mechanic. Good job
Hi Joe, just found your channel. I work across the water on various boats in Old England. Great to find another Marine Engineer
Is there any of old England left?
@@tangentgardner Yeah loads if you know where to look
Back in the early 70s, some ERF trucks had Gardner engines. They were not popular with the drivers - !
But if you had an ERF with a Cummins engine, happy driver - ! 😊
I used to go out boatfishing with a bunch of older lorrydrivers, they always could tell you what engine was in a boat. Because most of them had marinised lorry engines in them.
Joe ! What a brilliant video a typical job that grows arms and legs as set to work on it I feel your pain 🤯 You were right you should of overruled the skipper, I've been in a similar position ( it happens ) different trade etc.
The skipper was probably worried about cost/downtime and your a nice bloke
God Bless you Joe
Kind Regards CC
And the skipper would say " You will be able to fix it no problem , i would have done it myself but i am too busy " Run a mile .
My father worked for Gardner Diesels for over 30 years. The factory (as far as I know) is still there. But it isn't Gardner Diesels anymore. I am not sure if it even makes diesel engines. They started out making marine diesels, and then moved into lorry and bus engines. Most of the deep sea lifeboats around the British Isles are powered (or were) by Gardner diesels, Becasue they were so reliable. No engine in the 1960's left the factory without doing 50 hours running on a test bed without fault. They even polished the connecting rods inside the engines! Many of the faults and problems you describe seem to come from putting what was intended as a lorry engine inside a ship.
Er, no. There are many automotive engines out there running away quite happily in boats. The problems I faced stemmed from sloppy work on the part of a previous mechanic, simple as that.
This is an excellent video thank you
What a gentle story teller! 😍
Having seen in previous videos of yours how you have repaired and reconditioned LWs and LXs which have been half buried in a field somewhere for decades, I must admit I wondered what you had found that would be a nightmare for you to tackle. But it was just dramatic licence. Never the less it was good to hear how the problem was solved. Thanks for sharing.
Really interesting video. Thanks for posting.
Maybe I missed something . I had the same problem with an Allen key that would not reach . All I did was cut it in half and extended it with a bit of round bar welded to it ?
I wonder how they tightened up those grub screws on the taper lock gear in the first place.
Probably with allen key through the holes for the injection pump bolts.
@@mikesautotruckrepairinc.cr5621 Yep. Exactly how it was done.
Yes but then you couldn't get the bolts for the flange in
@@jonstaatz3686 Yeah I can see where you are coming from. Only other explanation is the gear pully has ridden up the shaft over time through vibration. Coincidentally becoming tighter as it moved. Who knows?
Great vid Joe. We usually see on these fishing boats they wind the buffer in to combat the worn governor and they keep doing it until I get a call saying it’s run away
My father and grandfather worked all their life. @ Foden, Gardner engines were always a premium price option on new trucks 🙂
Great story and perseverance but how did the person who put on the taper lock pully tighten the grub screws
They probably had the complete shaft removed at the time!
@@tangentgardner thanks
Still only a 5 mil gap to the flange. @@tangentgardner
Good man Joe,ye got the better of it anyway .
Well done sir....The last gardener I had an conection with was a sreight 8 turb charged Gardener in a Foden 8 wheel waste truck.
Got it brand new.....gee that engine liked to burn oil.
1980s
Didnt pull very well either.
Shame they closed down.....sorry to say.....but did not fit in in todays world....pity.
Nice looking engine they where to....all alloy.
@05:50 - I wouldn't be happy either!😅
Moral of the story is an old one - tell the customer(and do) what needs to be done(I know it's easier said than done) , and not what they think should be done - horses for courses. 👍
Very interesting video.
I know very little about engines but was really fascinated with your story. Hope you post more soon. 👍🏻
Double it and add half! That's what I tell people after 40 years of working on it about estimating time and money on old rusty equipment I've never seen before. I have seen it take 10 hours for 3 very expierienced mechanics, a certified welder, and a machinist to get one inaccessible stainless steel Phillips screw out that held up a normally 8 hr clutch replacement! plus, They're happier if I get done under budget and sooner than I said. It got to the point that the mechanics in the shop started pulling the most troubsome bolts out of the new trucks on arrival and antisiezing them so we weren't spending all night alongside the road on call in the winter dicking with a stupid twisted or rounded off bolt of some kind later! Locktite works great for pressed in u-joints and other items in corrosive environments. It stays put, seals it, locks it, prevents rust, and just 300 deg Fahrenheit from a propane torch loostens it. As soon as you sand the rust off of shafts or bores they're loose. Locktite them first, and ALWAYS lubricate stainless fastners, especially that thread into stainless. I can spin a new nut on a new stainless bolt with my fingers that you will twist the bolt off with a wrench trying to get back off just from galling.
Oh my Friend, I thank you for this. Things are no different in Canada. I don't feel so bad about my struggles over the years.
I work on marinised engines fitted to narrowboats and so identify with all that you say. Just a point, how did they tighten the tapered bush grub screws in the first instance it being so close to the drive flange? Lovely video, thanks.
Thank you Joe. Good entertainment for my teabreak as usual.
We used to have a few Gardner 6LXB engines in our buses and they were quite reliable but could be a nightmare to work on when there was an issue
Nice to see you, Joe
Didn't watch every word of the video, so still not sure what the actually reason for the loss of power was. Assume it needed an injection pump overhaul, all the trouble was getting it out of the engine.
Anyhow to my point, virtually the whole fleet of trucks where I served my apprenticeship ran Gardner diesels. After the trucks were beyond a useful life for long distance work, they continued on with local deliveries till the truck bodies were virtually felling apart. The motors would then be pulled out, and sold to competing trawler builders to start another complete life after being converted for marine use.
Wonderful low revving motors, and at ridiculous mileages with a set of new conrod bearings, cylinder linings, and rings, reconditioned injectors, ..... would just go on forever.
Hi Joe. Could it have been possible to drill out the grub screws on the taperlock hu b from the back side then give the pulley a good belt to release the taper, just a thought, I certainly know what you are talking about with corrosion on marine engines, I have not started work on the old gardner in the boat that I inherited but ,when I do I will be in contact.
Frank McH Western Australia
Talk about a true old salt...you are that mate...Great job!😄
Great story just shows can not take anything for granted
Thanks for the story.
I'm too old for that kind of nonsense, but I'm pretty sure I'm younger than you.
Joe, I just found your site, love it and, a BIG follower from now. Reg
I know the owner of a 75’ vintage yacht here on the coast of British Columbia, he told me he was having some issues with his Gardner engine and ended up flying a Gardner expert mechanic out from the UK to have a look. After about an hour the mechanic came up to the bridge and told the owner it was all fixed. When the owner asked him if he was going to start it up and test it, the guy just said “she’ll work!” and returned to the UK that afternoon… he was right…
Well, that is poor, and proudful not testing a repair. Such a thing is never wise.
your a legend joe
Joe, sounds like the skipper was harder work than the engine. Next time, tell Pugwash to sling his anchor!
Joe you have the patience of Job. Been there but learned a valuable lesson. My remedy was to quote a price for the job that made the customer take a deep breath. Human nature being what it is, obliging a person and doing an awkward job for people, the result is often a case of, eaten bread is soon forgotten.
You quote a price based on what you can see needs doing and double it. Almost certainly, the job will be 2x more difficult than that. Been there. Done that.
You can pay me by the hour (I don’t ** about) until the job is done. I will do it right.
Any unseen trouble will be notified to you. But don’t ask me to bodge it. That stuff costs lives.
I did my apprenticeship as a Diesel Fitter - Mechanic. M cool is a mechanic able to build new parts etc a Fitter just replaces. Parts. I wish I’d stand with it
I used to build assemble the fuel pump cambox assembly at Gardner diesel from start to Finnish that pulley should have never been fitted they would have had to remove it from the chain drive assembly in the crank case to take it off along with the whole cambox assembly just for interest my fitters stamp to indicate who assembled each part was double EE if you seethat any where on the cambox it's one of mine I built them for my last five to six years at gardners
It not your fault, if the skipper tells you what to do. Skippers word is final on a vessel. No ifs buts or maybe's. Great video.
So what exactly was causing the trouble in the first place ?
All I can say is I hope you got paid. Don't put an awkward customer on your responsibility, it's not always easy to be assertive, and trying to please the customer isn't wrong, the customer stuffed you around, life is always an arm wrestle from time to time and the ones where you might wish you had or thin you could have done better are always a lesson to learn from but it still doesn't make it your fault. The only oversight was not having the part you needed when you first showed up. Great video, thanks for that.🙃
Thanks a bunch.really liked the whole scene
How did they get that pulley on in the first place?
Thank you for sharing your story.
Thanks for sharing.
Sounds like the work of a rooter. A pure, pedigree rooter.
Just a query did the engine have either a 2 to 1 or a 3 to 1 marine gearbox fitted because I remember that when I assembled those gearboxes the flywheel was different so the reduction gear assembly could be fitted imitated the gearboxes also during my 18 years at gardners I was made redundant in 1986
Many thanks for that. May I ask, was the Gardner Diesel 4 stroke or 2 stroke? Thanks again.
Joe mentions tappets just before 11 minute mark so guessing 4 stroke.
Yes, indeed. Many thanks. BF.
It is a 4 stroke.
Superb!
Gardner engines are a nightmare......nah mate, what plonkers do, or do not do to them is where the nightmares start.....
AMAZED! PATIENCE WITH DAMNED NEAR YOUR "FINANCIAL" STUPIDITIES. SET LIMITS !AGAINST OWNER STUPIDITIES BY LEVERAGING RESULTS OVER HIS EXPENDATURES.
Great job Lads ! Did the captain give you any fish ? 😉🙃😎 NZ
Hi. If you ever need any Gardiner fuel injection pumps and spares I know of a tidy amount that have been in storage for years
Please email me: tangent.gardner@gmail.com
👍👌👏 Yes, Sir, you are absolutely right! You should've walked away but not without letting pay the skipper for your effort for getting there and back. But I guess over time and with more experience you will learn when you should walk away from a job. 😁 ;-) 😋😜👅🐕😘
Thanks a lot for making teaching explaining recording editing uploading and sharing.
Best regards luck and especially health to both of you.
Lots of vice grips and adjustable wrenches in the background. I thought I myself had the most of.
Like everthing there is always a person who has had a bad experience
Having grown up when Gardner Diesels were in their Hey Day, 1950's -1970's was always a solid reliable engine
For Marine use, they had no competition, they remained the favourite of British Bus manufacturers right up till the late 1980's and the Hawker Siddley takeover
A Chinese Chinese junk, built all of Teak and Mahogany was not complete without a Gardiner
Did you leave the unused gear on the injector pump drive shaft?
Everything is a nightmare when you're up to your bollox in it 😁👍🇮🇪