Great upload again Dan and guys. The beauty of having a collaboration is you get to pick up much more between you than just one pair of eyes. Fascinating and I'm now a bit more excited for the first episodes seeing this rolled out.
Hi i know I'm late to this video haha but i have to correct the statement of the cast being in purgatory in 'Lost'. This was not the case, the ending was a flash sideways which gives the cast a happy ending and coming together at the end. It seriously offended me cos Lost is my fav series of all time 🤣.
"Later some of the Noldor went to Eregion, upon the west of the Misty Mountains, and near to the West-gate of Moria. This they did because they learned that mithril had been discovered in Moria." LotR, App B "There is in the text no mention of his [Bilbo] acquiring of boots. There should be! It has dropped out somehow or other in the various revisions - the bootings occurred at Rivendell; and he was again bootless after leaving Rivendell on the way home. But since leathery soles, and well-brushed furry feet are a feature of essential hobbitness, he ought really to appear unbooted, except in special illustrations of episodes." Letter 27, regarding illustrations
The kids reminded me on the Finrod and Andreth dialogue and that the elves have children only in peace times. So since they where talking peace I immidiately thought elf kids.
Good point! You may be right. As we said on the stream, the white clothing seems to suggest either Elves or Númenóreans/Edain, compared with the raggedy clothing of the Middle Men that we've seen... I'm leaning toward Elvish children myself.
Total irresponsible speculation: I think a Balrog attacks that southern village with Galadriel, Arondir and Bronwyn. Don’t know how or why. But could be an exciting season finale type sequence. Also when I watch the trailer in the Prime Video app on my 4K tv, I can see black smoke enveloping some sort of figure behind the burning leaf. It’s interesting.
This show seems obsessed with symbols and logos. The robes are plastered with them e.g. Gil-Galad's sash reads "Elder King" (in Elvish), his wristband spells "Elbereth", and Durin's collar says "Durin the Deathless". (Information from The Philosopher's Games). The symbols are generally crude, like on Lenny's map (some are goblin-runes, some aren't, it appears to be a meaningless jumble). There is a debased sensibility at work here. Compare the artistry Tolkien lavished on such things, e.g. the Moria-gate or Thror's map.
Matching Tolkien's artistry is a very high bar to strive for, indeed. I'd like to see more of the sigils that Tolkien designed himself to be included in the show's props and costuming.
Curious about what exactly would be considered lore accurate? 🤔 If this show expands upon things that Tolkien mentioned but didn't provide a ton of details for (like the backstory of all the nazgul for example), should we consider that lore accurate?
@@gemynd5894 very little of this will actually be canon. Only the books are canon. And yes, PJ's LOTR movies are also non canon. There are so many things wrong with what we have been shown so far. It's pure fan fiction, not adding anything to Middle Earth, rather trying to rewrite it. If you like it, more power to you but this is just a pure cash grab by jumping on an established franchise yet utterly disregarding why it is a well loved franchise in the first place.
@@HappyMetalGeek Hello there. It's hard for me to like or dislike something I haven't had to chance to watch yet. So I'll remain unsure until the show airs. But my question is sincere. I agree with you that the books in themselves are a separate thing and can't be altered, which is why I don't think we need to worry too much about these types of projects. However, when it comes to adaptations from book to film, those whose watch are allowed to make comparisons and engage with both the source material and the adaptation in that sense. And that is both fun and stimulating as a learning experience, and eventually allows for more people to read the books and become familiar with Tolkien's works (even if the adaptations are awful). So from that perspective, I do wonder if expanding upon elements of the second age story that Tolkien outlined but didn't craft a detailed novel for should be considered completely out of line with what he wrote, said or thought about that period.
@@gemynd5894 @Gemynd it's a fair enough question. For this, it is not an adaptation of any part of Tolkien. It is "based on the works of JRR Tolkien" or inspired by. So it isn't adding anything to the world of Middle Earth, to me anyway. Rather it feels rather that they are trying to subvert, corrupt and disrespect the themes and vision that created the fandom in the first place. If Amazon wanted to make a generic fantasy, then fire ahead. I may even have given it a chance. I am fairly open minded, but to also keep oneself grounded and not flip flop or indeed engage in critical thinking there must be rules and principles to live by. Mine line in the sand is the inviobility of Tolkien. Yes, be interested, yes, deep dive and yes discuss the meaning of Tolkien to you. But do not impose a narrow interpretation of what you thought Tolkien meant by rewriting the established world creation. I know the line now is "but you haven't seen it yet". Trailers, interviews and articles on the product are there to sell the product. Give you a taste to whet your appetite. So far, instead of a smorgasbord of tantalising tasters that make me want more all I have gotten from this is something that is bitter, out of its consume by date and is only fit for the bin. What they have shown me in the trailers, through the articles and the SDCC panels is a complete self obsession by the show runners and some actors, utter lack of any sort of humility, utter contempt for what Tolkien accomplished and very much modern aesthetics and societal outlooks. So much lore has been thrown in the bin in the 3 teasers and the one trailer I am completely put of watching the show altogether and seriously considering canceling my prime subscription. They don't have the rights to any source material for the 2nd Age (of which there is quite a bit) other than the mentions made in LOTR (and appendices) and the Hobbit. What they have made up does not fill in gaps (which can be acceptable if it compliments what already exists) but directly contradicts the actual established lore. That is not acceptable to me. Some may have a lower threshold and others a higher threshold, but this is mine.
@@HappyMetalGeek Would you mind giving some examples of how you think the people involved with the show are corrupting or disrespecting Tolkien's themes and work?
Great trailer breakdown and livestream discussion - can't believe I watched the whole video, but it was so captivating and the time flew by.
The 'sacrificial altar' with the symbol carved into it looks somewhat like an anvil as well...
Sad I missed most of the Livestream. Looking forward to your analysis!
No worries, and thank you for the donation!
Great upload again Dan and guys. The beauty of having a collaboration is you get to pick up much more between you than just one pair of eyes. Fascinating and I'm now a bit more excited for the first episodes seeing this rolled out.
Hi i know I'm late to this video haha but i have to correct the statement of the cast being in purgatory in 'Lost'. This was not the case, the ending was a flash sideways which gives the cast a happy ending and coming together at the end. It seriously offended me cos Lost is my fav series of all time 🤣.
"Later some of the Noldor went to Eregion, upon the west of the Misty Mountains, and near to the West-gate of Moria. This they did because they learned that mithril had been discovered in Moria."
LotR, App B
"There is in the text no mention of his [Bilbo] acquiring of boots. There should be! It has dropped out somehow or other in the various revisions - the bootings occurred at Rivendell; and he was again bootless after leaving Rivendell on the way home. But since leathery soles, and well-brushed furry feet are a feature of essential hobbitness, he ought really to appear unbooted, except in special illustrations of episodes."
Letter 27, regarding illustrations
more Silmarillion videos please !!
The kids reminded me on the Finrod and Andreth dialogue and that the elves have children only in peace times. So since they where talking peace I immidiately thought elf kids.
Good point! You may be right. As we said on the stream, the white clothing seems to suggest either Elves or Númenóreans/Edain, compared with the raggedy clothing of the Middle Men that we've seen... I'm leaning toward Elvish children myself.
Sorry l passed you again life. Thank you for the balanced and interesting trailer analysis. I was so delighted about the verses.
Total irresponsible speculation: I think a Balrog attacks that southern village with Galadriel, Arondir and Bronwyn. Don’t know how or why. But could be an exciting season finale type sequence.
Also when I watch the trailer in the Prime Video app on my 4K tv, I can see black smoke enveloping some sort of figure behind the burning leaf. It’s interesting.
Sent you a twitter DM about coming to see my collection 😀
Very interested to see how many trotters of Tolkien books you have m
Man, I think I just found new favorite Tolkien channel. I like the directness toward geekdom rather than the usual emotionalism or political stuff.
your guest is completely wrong about LOST. just goes to show he didn't watch it. great stream otherwise.
This show seems obsessed with symbols and logos. The robes are plastered with them e.g. Gil-Galad's sash reads "Elder King" (in Elvish), his wristband spells "Elbereth", and Durin's collar says "Durin the Deathless". (Information from The Philosopher's Games). The symbols are generally crude, like on Lenny's map (some are goblin-runes, some aren't, it appears to be a meaningless jumble).
There is a debased sensibility at work here. Compare the artistry Tolkien lavished on such things, e.g. the Moria-gate or Thror's map.
Matching Tolkien's artistry is a very high bar to strive for, indeed. I'd like to see more of the sigils that Tolkien designed himself to be included in the show's props and costuming.
I can't wait for the fanedit of lore accurate footage after the first season is done. Gonna be less than an hour, but still...
Curious about what exactly would be considered lore accurate? 🤔 If this show expands upon things that Tolkien mentioned but didn't provide a ton of details for (like the backstory of all the nazgul for example), should we consider that lore accurate?
@@gemynd5894 very little of this will actually be canon. Only the books are canon. And yes, PJ's LOTR movies are also non canon.
There are so many things wrong with what we have been shown so far. It's pure fan fiction, not adding anything to Middle Earth, rather trying to rewrite it.
If you like it, more power to you but this is just a pure cash grab by jumping on an established franchise yet utterly disregarding why it is a well loved franchise in the first place.
@@HappyMetalGeek Hello there. It's hard for me to like or dislike something I haven't had to chance to watch yet. So I'll remain unsure until the show airs. But my question is sincere. I agree with you that the books in themselves are a separate thing and can't be altered, which is why I don't think we need to worry too much about these types of projects. However, when it comes to adaptations from book to film, those whose watch are allowed to make comparisons and engage with both the source material and the adaptation in that sense. And that is both fun and stimulating as a learning experience, and eventually allows for more people to read the books and become familiar with Tolkien's works (even if the adaptations are awful). So from that perspective, I do wonder if expanding upon elements of the second age story that Tolkien outlined but didn't craft a detailed novel for should be considered completely out of line with what he wrote, said or thought about that period.
@@gemynd5894 @Gemynd it's a fair enough question.
For this, it is not an adaptation of any part of Tolkien. It is "based on the works of JRR Tolkien" or inspired by. So it isn't adding anything to the world of Middle Earth, to me anyway. Rather it feels rather that they are trying to subvert, corrupt and disrespect the themes and vision that created the fandom in the first place. If Amazon wanted to make a generic fantasy, then fire ahead. I may even have given it a chance. I am fairly open minded, but to also keep oneself grounded and not flip flop or indeed engage in critical thinking there must be rules and principles to live by. Mine line in the sand is the inviobility of Tolkien. Yes, be interested, yes, deep dive and yes discuss the meaning of Tolkien to you. But do not impose a narrow interpretation of what you thought Tolkien meant by rewriting the established world creation. I know the line now is "but you haven't seen it yet". Trailers, interviews and articles on the product are there to sell the product. Give you a taste to whet your appetite. So far, instead of a smorgasbord of tantalising tasters that make me want more all I have gotten from this is something that is bitter, out of its consume by date and is only fit for the bin. What they have shown me in the trailers, through the articles and the SDCC panels is a complete self obsession by the show runners and some actors, utter lack of any sort of humility, utter contempt for what Tolkien accomplished and very much modern aesthetics and societal outlooks. So much lore has been thrown in the bin in the 3 teasers and the one trailer I am completely put of watching the show altogether and seriously considering canceling my prime subscription.
They don't have the rights to any source material for the 2nd Age (of which there is quite a bit) other than the mentions made in LOTR (and appendices) and the Hobbit. What they have made up does not fill in gaps (which can be acceptable if it compliments what already exists) but directly contradicts the actual established lore. That is not acceptable to me. Some may have a lower threshold and others a higher threshold, but this is mine.
@@HappyMetalGeek Would you mind giving some examples of how you think the people involved with the show are corrupting or disrespecting Tolkien's themes and work?
2:22:00 Hobbits in trees?
That's what it looks like. Hopefully there's a line in there about how unnatural it is for them to be up a tree!
Throat clearing = mute button. Especially when you have guests which I am having trouble understanding through the throat clearing.