This single short book has helped me heal myself more than any other book I have ever read. I have listened to it over and over, like peeling an onion layer by layer getting eventually to the core, finding there immense sadness, confronting it, becoming an adult. Won’t make sense at first. This woman was a psychotherapist for decades. Studied many biographies of narcissistically disturbed people. And wrote several great books. Essential reading for trauma healing and for the Cluster B disorders: histrionic, borderline, narcissist, antisocial. An astonishingly insightful book.
We are taught learned helplessness by the abuse by our parents thus not knowing who our authentic self is . We live walking on eggshells to accommodate the parents to avoid further abuse. Thus we cannot just BE ourselves ever. Unless we detach from the fantasy bond of what we think our parents are we will never be our authentic selves. I have worked on all of this for at least 20 years. My growth and knowledge continues ongoing. Miller touches on this mentioning Permanent bondedness in this book (my reference to fantasy bonding).
One is free from depression when self esteem (self love) is based on the authenticity of own's feelings & not on the possession of certain qualities. - Alice Miller
@@kathleenmaryparker8662 sure. I have not read her son’s book yet or seen any interviews. I just dislike when people try to take away from her work by citing her son’s issues with his mother as a kind of “gotcha!” point that supposedly invalidates her work or her as a person. Miller has saved so many lives around the world including mine. Please don’t take that away from people who desperately need it by casting doubt on the very valid insights she came to late in her life-long after she had raised her son.
And there should be a 6-month training workshop based on Alice’s work that all mothers and fathers must enroll in and complete before they start raising their child.
I'm here thanks to authors Dr. Gabor Mate and Timothy Ferris. Both have been really helpfull throughout my journey. My experience has been that help is out there if we are brave enough to ask for it. Greetings from Mexico, I hope this knowledge goes around the world.
I want to contribute to your comment about great sources of understanding with the works of Sam Vaknin and Richard Grannon. Indeed, a never ending cascade of reliable and humane help for the troubled mind is available if we are open to it. Greetings from Sonora, Mexico.
Can I just ask you and I am not living in Mexico but the UK but in my expereince and many many others including the kind of people Gabor Mate has worked with in down town Vancouver,then it is rarely a matter of simply being brave enough to reach out.What kind of places and help were you able to find might I ask ? because from what I can see there are far more people in need then there are places or people with which to provide support,especially and sometimes even with the financial resources
Carlos R. Villanueva. Dr GABOR MATE’ is unprecedented in knowledge of medical and immune system problems suffered by abused adult children. Not addressing our childhood trauma is the very thing that is destroying society today. It starts individually than it must be examined collectively. This is the true PANDEMIC ongoing today.
Chapter 1 | 25:09 | The Drama of the Gifted Child and the Psychotherapist's Narcissistic Disturbance Chapter 2 | 1:13:06 | Depression and Grandiosity as Related Forms of Narcissistic Disturbance Chapter 3 | 2:00:29 | The Vicious Cycle of Contempt
I did all my Inner Child work with The Inner Council. Opening this deep trust relationship has allowed me to change one thing after another, attitudes, roles, emotional responses and making decisions with deep integrity. I also do breath-work, kundalini, hiking, cold baths, san pedro cactus and my linear programming has given way to an huge ambiguous everything that I can navigate. I have have almost any experience I want, always use pain or discomfort for progress, call out confidently to guides and masters and sit peaceful and confident that I am at the center of my story. Thoroughly enjoy the plateaus, approach the deep work with honour and know that you deserve the prize waiting at the end. Much support to you all, let's birth this new earth!
Understanding her book is valuable if it leads that therapist to BE DOING their own work. I read this book long ago, and as a person traumatized early and in many ways, as Alice states herein, it was intellectually fascinating, and made (makes) sense, but that's not enough. One who doesn't have the fear and courage to walk the path, cannot adequately support or assist another who is wanting/needing to do so. It was many years later that it began to hit me emotionally. I've never been the same, and am still trying to muster the courage (also repair a lifelong nervous system in fight/flight) to continue. I have trained as a therapist, but had to stop as I was myself overwhelmed. Alice knew of what she spoke, and yet, as she states herein, I don't deify, so I'm not surprised (anymore) by her son's revelations. Hell, Bessel Van der Kolk ("The Body Keeps the Score") had low heartrate variability (HRV), which is indicative of poor Vagal tone (Polyvagal Theory-Stephen Porges; Parasympathetic-rest/digest), which is related to connectedness, and said that Rolfing improved that for him. Never discussed in his book, and yet, as Alice states, we're drawn to heal others until at some point we realize we're wounded too, and are ourselves on the journey for which others have entrusted us to be there for them. Chiron-the wounded healer.
@@websurfer5772 Appreciate you hearing. I know nothing of things Astrological, perhaps you could explain further, because if I said I hear you, I'd be lying. lol
Please do not make the mistake of skipping the all-important PREFACE (0:00-17:00) which has disclaimers describing Alice Miller's evolution since originally having written this book. Even more importantly, do not skip the FOREWORD (17:01 - 25:09) which will reset the compass for the entire journey of this book. For example, here is a partial excerpt: "In the following pages I am trying to come closer to the origins of this loss of the self. While doing so, I shall not use the term ‘narcissism’. However, in my clinical descriptions I shall speak occasionally of a healthy narcissism and depict the ideal case of a person who is genuinely alive with free access to the true self and his authentic feelings. I shall contrast this with narcissistic disorders -with the true self’s solitary confinement within the prison of the false self. This I see less as an illness than as a tragedy. And it is my aim in this book to break away from judgmental isolating and therefore discriminating terminology. "
Shocking. WOW. From the very beginning at the earliest times you survive by creating a defensive personality that isn’t even the real you. You just gave yourself over to the needy mother. And in doing so, lost YOU yourself. Who now you may not know or be in full communication with. A stunning work of psychology.
The emptiness and constant depression she mentioned. Depression being a form of sadness because of the lost self and how grandiosity is defence for depression too. How to uncover? What does it take? I'm sick of depression and emptiness. How to overcome?
To understand that the words your mother and father gave you were of their own damnation. To recognize that while wise they were comforting themselves. To understand that the badness that they thought of when you did things wrong, were most false. that your childhood cannot be gained back, that you cannot change what has already happened. the only thing that remains is to accept yourself, them and the external forces as they too have personal stamps from others. In other words: recognizing your personal stamp on you, and loving yourself anyway.
this might be a bit late but I suggest the antidote to depressive feelings is a willingness to feel feelings that have otherwise been suppressed because they feel too threatening or uncomnfortable or painful.Developing some kind of container for these feelings through compassion or loving kindness is a good way to engage with them and not to judge them.The emptiness and lack of affect from depression is to do with the literal de-pression of our feelings and a reluctance to feel certain things
Start to RE parent yourself. Photos, stuffed animals, ice-cream..walks a puppy...color and hug yourself. Talk to your little self. It takes time, it works.
These writings have helped me in more understanding the origins of this destructive behavior by using empathy and compassion towards he narcissist, something never given in return. There will be no forgiveness until this disorder is fully understood by the abused. Don’t be afraid to love and commit... but don’t forget to listen to your intuition.. letting your heart guid you, not guard you. Blessing to all the workers and changers. Use your empathy to break the mold and be a better person. Do not repeat he cycle. God is love. Love is the pinnacle of achievement.
I am one of these people. My mother had a dead infant girl who died on the first day of life after being born. I was born almost exactly one year later. My infant self therefore was forced into the position of being what this sad depressed woman wanted or needed to soothe her pain. I got very little back at this earliest time that would support a normal ego development. I just gave myself away to my mom bc I had to survive. And this journey towards the true self can be a hell at times but seems worth it. How does one mature when none of the structures that would facilitate that are in place at the very very beginning? You don’t. And the maybe maybe one day you fully wake up and you say not much of this was really me. This is me! And here I truly am. At last, at long last. Follow your North Star. 💫
❤️an extraordinary human being is Dr. Miller. I'm writing on new models of economy, ironically, this body of work informs my vision to a greater extent than does the works of many revered economists.
You'll find more of that in her book For Your Own Good: Hidden Cruelty in Child-Rearing and the Roots of Violence. It discusses the childhood of Hitler among others.
Inner child work may be helpful. Don't run from the pain. Ask it what kt has to say and where it came from. For forms and question see this Jungian life on you tube. Manic defences-melanie klien. These defenses will be present (achievements) in the narcissistic personality.
Only the scrupulous keeping and speaking of the truth of my abused childhood has had the power of preventing me from becoming - as a doctor who knew my father said I might have been -"feeble-minded"...
"When the patient has truly emotionally worked through the history of his childhood and thus regained his sense of being alive then the goal of the therapy has been reached"
It is so peculiar that despite all her knowledge and wisdom about what parents should and should not do, she failed to apply it on her own son. He was deeply traumatized and as a child frequently physically abused by his father, while Alice (according her son) didn't do anything to help him when he needed help.
Lo , I wrote two replies to your post, but those are not visible for some reason. Now I will try to reply to myself and put the "like" on your post so you got notice. Maybe it will work and I hope that I will manage to answer your question. I will emphasize that my first post wasn't in any way meant to diminish amazing work of Alice Miller. I find her books very enlightening and I am deeply grateful that she wrote them. About sources you asked about, it is her son Martin Miller who after Alice died was asked about his mother's work and so and he claims that she was not even close to be a mother like one may assume that she was after reading her books. Unfortunately, she is not alive anymore to confront these claims, but that is what he says. It looks like he is somewhat damaged, mostly because he was often beaten by his abusive father. However he blames his mother that she never did anything to help him when his father was violent. There is a documentary "Who's afraid of Alice Miller", search on IMDB for more info, I hope it is possible for you to find some way to see it where you live. Then there is a book that her son Martin Miller wrote, title on it is something like "The true (or "real") drama of the gifted child". I didn't read it yet, don't know if I will either, but I saw in the description on some book dealer sites that he writes about his own problems and troubled relation with his mother. Even here on RUclips you can find interviews with her son, just search for his name, Martin Miller. He became therapist too, it confirms some of his mother's theories, that therapists are often "gifted children" and that their past gives them extra compassion and willingness to help other people. I guess that Alice is a good example of it too, may she rest in peace.
@@Sejo088 "Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner. Far more critical than what we know or what we don't know is what we don't want to know" ~ Eric Hoffer
@@Sejo088 Yes, she intellectually knew it, but couldn't live it. This is unfortunately not uncommon in this field. We've got a Psychological Bypass to go along with the Spiritual Bypass that so often occurs on the road to healing.
true although you say she isn't what she appears because her son said she could have done something, but the reality is that she was a women in a weaker body, often murders occur from the people you know most and considering that men commit more murder on the tails of the population distributions of ASPD I would say that my mom was at no insignificant risk of being killed, but she did something and left him, she could have very well not left but it would have been at my expense and feeling that she was to blame which I probably would have, however it still wouldn't have been her fault if she hadn't since I can't say that I would have done differently since that would have acutely endangered myself and my kid if I were in that circumstance to make the choice to take away control from someone who tried to gain as much of it as he could, which you are doing by leaving. We all like to imagine ourselves as heroic when the truth is that no one makes that choice, and it rather already is in your proclivity to act against your interest to begin with, if you are having to think about it then it won't happen. Unfortunately it is not anyone's fault in these circumstances but I can see how it could seem that way.
Sins of the forefathers shall be visited upon next generations. We must tend our gardens to produce not of the original seedlings but healthier species of similar.
@@carolrose it is true. His father was a horrible tyrant. Hitler reenacted his childhood on millions of people. That is what dictators do, as Alice Miller explains (in her book For Your Own Good: Hidden Cruelty in Child-Rearing and the Roots of Violence, for example).
I read about Adolf Hitler's abusive childhood at the hands of his father and I can see how that would mess anybody up, but Alice Miller also said that he was "emotionally abandoned by his mother" and that "A child can avoid becoming a criminal if he has the chance in childhood to meet at least one person who is not cruel to him or maybe even likes or understands him." I've read that Hitler's mother, contrary to what Miller says, actually doted on him and they had a close relationship. So it seems his mother did care for him after all. Can anyone explain what turned him into the man despised globally to this day?
@@philiprandall9994 Apparently there's the most common form of creating narcissism. The primary caregiver was likely the mother but she wasn't able to protect the child from being phsyically abused, that's a form of abandonment for a child. The mother allowed her child to be attacked over and over again, his father probably told him how worthless he was, to compensate mother would tell him how amazing and amazing he was. The side that tells him he's great and amazing feels better so he decides to take on it but he keeps on being abused. Believing he's great helped him survive the abuse now he can take revenge on whoever hurt him but the perpetrator (the father) is already gone. Anger is externalized. He is great and if he becomes the abuser he will never be abused again.
I think the whole ultimate point of this work is to lay the drama 🎭 down. After a time, a therapeutic process, a journey within, if it is fully successful, their no longer is held inside a dramatic personae, a cast of characters, no wicked witch mother, no Oedipal father, no peripheral or subordinate figures…only one person remains…and s/he is the last one standing…and no longer a character in a drama. The longer title of the book is “drama” of the gifted child…journey of the True Self. A Self no longer in a mental or emotional drama.
" The grandiose person is never really free; first because he is excessively dependent on admiration from others, and second, because his self-respect is dependent on qualities, functions, and achievements that can suddenly fail " Alice Miller, The Drama of the Gifted Child: The Search for the True Self
“Ni con la mejor buena voluntad podemos liberarnos de los modelos que tan tempranamente aprendimos de nuestros padres, pero quedaremos libres de ellos en cuanto nos permitamos sentir y advirtamos como sufríamos bajo esos modelos.”
what can i gain from hthis knowledge. that you need to have a psycho analyst is indeed a good thing.don´t get me wrong, but i think that what has never been there cant be restored. the train so to speak is gone. truelly cruel to be used as a narcicistic source. sucked out from generation to generation and we do even need a pass for children. tzz
I agree. Listen to the intro/prologue. She ends up leaving psychoanalysis behind but archived the book in original form to show her old beliefs. From personal experience I know that this (psychoanalytic) theory is deeply flawed at best because the field is narcissistic in itself likely due to Freud's narcissism. How ridiculous to imagine that an adult could transfer their feelings of being a neglected helpless infant unto a therapist in a clinic and work out the original conflict this way. You are right. The damage done to the brain not to mention body by trauma is not only damage inflicted but disability from the absence of necessary nurturing critical to brain development, attachment and life without constant anxiety, depression, struggle. Life will be a battle for us and for me what matters is knowing that I am the one in control of my healing not giving away power to anyone including a therapist.
Actually techniques have been developed for emotional processing of past unmet needs. I have found those processes useful myself to take the edge off. Ok it can never replace something that wasn't there, but it can take the edge off.
@@lorishu48103 therapy can help I get that you don't trust therapists but you cant technically give your power away if you have the attitude of not giving it away, people like you who are rightfully cynical are the least likely to have their power taken even in positions of vulnerability from across a therapist's chair.
Maybe individual personality…or leaning to mimic the narc parent by being the golden child While the other- was not as strong under the neglect, physical and emotional abuse…. I learned recently that my mother is a covert narc… She treated us all differently…the ones that’s mimicked her evil ways were rewarded by being over looked in their wrong doing…my oldest brother and sister were more like her siblings b/c she had to grow up with them The last 3 of us girls were mudd to her I still have a relationship with my mother I told her about her illness and pointed out how she ran two my sisters looney, one leaving her husband to be homeless because my mother used her then dismissed her by changing her lock on her home…when my fragile sister key didn’t work she broke realizing it was done on puprpose My other sister has distanced herself from the consistant verbal abuse. And I know that I’ve always been the most hated child the youngest… my mother secretly only want to see me suffer, she gives bad advice that could ruin me…she pretends nice in hopes that I will send her money for birthdays or holidays (I stopped that) so pretends but just wants to personally hear me fail. I moved out of state from the dysfunction. I wouldn’t doubt she sicked my 2 oldest siblings on me to attempt to make my life miserable… Once I didn’t contect her much do to my career…she had a sister contact me and pretend she was having dementia and declining… I am a nurse!! 😂 I assess ppl for fun…she just didn’t like feeling disposed of. She then started purposely making me miss family reunions and special occasions as punishment because I moved out of state… She’d call after the events to say “Oh, you should of saw…oh, you missed….” So I can say “Why didn’t you tell me?” And she’d say “I thought you knew!”, “Oh, you’re too busy!”, “I did tell you!” This started my dark night of the soul… I explained to my nephew that she was doing these things on purpose and he said it was all in my head untill she pulled the rug from under his mother sending her into the streets to homelessness…he begged my mother (his grandmother) to apologize and mend that relationship I flat out told her you are a narcissist due to your being a orphan at 14yo. You where wrong to have my sister wait on you hand and foot, spend her money and when she tore her rotator and couldn’t go back to work….my mother changed her locks. Recently, my mother tried to convince me that I’m crazy needing to seek help…because I don’t want to give her ANY SUPPLY. No info about what I’m doing day to day. I told her I’m going through something and I can’t tell her much because I don’t know… I told her she is the one sick to make someone question their sanity. I said “I’m fine, I’m happy and content living a wonderful life and I want to talk about is God. She said “I don’t want to hear that $hit!” I said “Well, I want to just be to myself and quiet till I figure out what God wants me to do” She said “Well, call me when you find out!” She’s 82yo. I’m trying to be nice in case she dye suddenly due to lack of adequate supply!! She still has 3 siblings wrapped even the one that’s homeless begging to take the couch or for a hot meal….while she left her husband because of this mental state my mother triggered. If you made it hear😂 it felt good getting this out! Be blessed ✝️🙏🏽💜
@@SanctifiedLady ? no I strongly disagree! I am an empath and NEVER was a "Golden Child". I took care of my ROTTEN MOTHER who used me to "PROTECT HER" while ALLLL the others were FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! My MOTHER mentaly TORTURED ME!
I don't relate to r/Gifted forums from how intelligent I am but from how I am intelligent, because I am autistic and causes me to go through similar experiences in relating to others despite being average
Very much related to the Pinocchio take, marionettes, compulsively moved around by strings controlled by others, made of wood, false, hollowed out on the inside, not really understanding his own conditioned state, desiring to be a real boy and not a puppet. Yet he has a Jiminy Cricket, a sort of small conscience that guides him on his path. This is the true self guiding you, calling you, waking you up.
7:55 this is an apparent mischaracterization of Freud’s personal attitude, though perhaps professionally not. He is quoted as having said “The secret of the human soul lies in the psychic dramas of childhood. Get to the bottom of these dramas and healing will come.” So, if psychoanalytical training protected abusive parents it was because Freud’s own abusive father had not yet died. Which is far more palatable than Miller walking back the title of this book with her claim that she’d only meant the gift for intuiting an abusive parent’s moods- because it’s publication emptied-out her waiting room. Sorta makes one wonder more about her use of the word drama than gifted.
I'm having to force myself to listen to this audiobook before I start studying what her son had to say, otherwise I would never be able to begin this information however just a slight bit of digging,... This book of female author Miller, was a narcissist herself and she preached how horrendous it is on the child when abused all the while she was abusing her OWN son and this poor man grew up knowing his mother was advocating in public forums not to beat your child and giving details of how horrible it is for the child, all their lives while at those moments in time activity abusing him. I came across a snip of a black and white video clip of her being young enough to have had young children still, and she's talking this her sh-t. Haven't gotten into it deep enough to note if shs physically beat him but we all know psychological and emotional abuse is worse than being beaten physically. So what we have here is a 1945's ish 1950's maniacal mother female monster who studied her inner FALSE SELF and played the role in real life form and in living color as she saw herself as "in fantasy form" as a high-and-mighty psychologist and all the while she feigned being a good person while going after people like herself Oh, she demonized her own self and profited from it and was able to stand as a pillar in the community🤷♀️holy crap 🤢 omggg Jesus Christ. I was going to gripe about RUclips having never suggested this book to me after I've been studying narcissism extensively for 4 years now, also came across a slight bit of information that mentioned her work as being censored oh, maybe this is why. I'm going to go ahead and speculate that this woman was basically a modern day (before?) Sam Vaknin, only she was remaining closeted and I'm still not sure which narc came first as I remember?? Vaknin blooming out late 70's ish . Well daum,... here we have yet another narcissist telling us about narcissism -at least we know it's good information coming from a narcissist type brain which normal people otherwise cannot even fathom. Okayyyy -Let's roll up our sleeves and do this. This should be a wild ride because as I am learning from this book I'm going to be cognizant- taking it in as mentioned as such Oh, I'm so glad I've learned this bit of information from the comments on how this woman "knew what the hell she was doing bc she was one (narc) and had a son who had to wait till she died before he could tell what a horrible btch she was was". He was so messed up he had to become a psychologist, I cannot wait to get done with this so I can get onto him. His name is Martin Miller and apparently there are some Jewish ties in the story, as I've often wondered Nazi Germany, the Holocaust oh, how did they just come out of that and live their lives normally and not turn into monsters themselves? I'll speculate that this is probably what we're going to get into -well perhaps some did so... and so here we go.
Regardless, you can’ beat getting it straight from the horses mouth. She’s not the first narcissist to write a book. You should take note and also think about forgiveness...You sound very bitter about everything. God Bless your recovery!
@Self Esteem "Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner. Far more critical than what we know or what we don't know is what we don't want to know. Our greatest pretenses are built up not to hide the evil and the ugly in us, but our emptiness. The hardest thing to hide is something that is not there. Self-righteousness is a manifestation of self-contempt. Rudeness is a weak imitation of strength. Rudeness luxuriates in the absence of self-respect. Passionate hatred can give meaning and purpose to an empty life." ~ Eric Hoffer "Disrespect is the weapon of the weak. Contempt is the weapon of the weak and a defense against one’s own despised and unwanted feelings. If a mother respects both herself and her child from his very first day onward, she will never need to teach him respect for others. Only the mourning for what one has missed at the crucial time can lead to real healing." ~ Alice Miller
@@izsoirie7567 You're certainly welcome. 🙏🏻 "The aim of therapy is not to correct the past, but to enable the patient to confront his own history, and to grieve over it. Acquiring the ability to grieve - thus giving up the illusion of having a "happy" childhood and feeling and perceiving the evils endured in childhood and the blows received in their full scope - gives the person in crisis back his creativity and vitality; "It finally saves the person in the passion for greatness from the troubles and addiction of striving like Sisyphus..." The change from rage to sorrow makes it possible for the vicious circle of repetition to be broken. For the human soul is virtually indestructible, and its ability to rise from the ashes remains as long as the body draws breath." Alice Miller, For Your Own Good: Hidden Cruelty in Child-Rearing and the Roots of Violence
She wasn't in touch with most of this until much later than the period she was raising her own child. I wish people would appreciate that. She probably was led to all this partly from her experience with her own son. That supposedly she was never able to fully deal with that is not uncommon. She had flaws as all humans do. She in her teachings mentions the weaknesses of all humans and surely, she was no exception. Her sons motive to me is a question, but we have no idea. I haven't read his book, but he teaches her views so obviously none of this undermines her teaching.
@@edgreen8140 I just ordered it. Read excerpts years ago when in recovery process for childhood trauma. I’m ordering all of her books today. Daniel Mackler a former therapist here on YT has mentioned her many times. John Bradshaw also has talked about her also when he was doing his ON THE FAMILY PBS series in the 90s. His book On the Family is excellent also. TY for responding.
@@laraoneal7284 read them before you decide to read kernberg . Brillant but hard read. I was always object relations oriented. So when people treat me as the withdrawing or abusive caretaker. I don't say much and don't take it personally.
For me, reading Alice Miller is like therapy. It's not just meant to be informative; it's meant to establish an emotional connection and allow the concepts to sink in slowly through a bit of repetition. I used to think she was repetitive, but that was before I really connected with and understood her. When I finally did, I read all of her books one after another and still wanted more. I think it's in the emotional connection you make with the concepts, the truths, and her words accompany you as you process these facts and old feelings.
The book is only 3 hours. It’s not written for the lay ear. It sets up a framework/blueprint for a therapeutic process that could take quite a long time on the order of years.
This single short book has helped me heal myself more than any other book I have ever read. I have listened to it over and over, like peeling an onion layer by layer getting eventually to the core, finding there immense sadness, confronting it, becoming an adult.
Won’t make sense at first. This woman was a psychotherapist for decades. Studied many biographies of narcissistically disturbed people. And wrote several great books. Essential reading for trauma healing and for the Cluster B disorders: histrionic, borderline, narcissist, antisocial. An astonishingly insightful book.
Only minutes in....wow❤
Wow twice
We are taught learned helplessness by the abuse by our parents thus not knowing who our authentic self is . We live walking on eggshells to accommodate the parents to avoid further abuse. Thus we cannot just BE ourselves ever. Unless we detach from the fantasy bond of what we think our parents are we will never be our authentic selves. I have worked on all of this for at least 20 years. My growth and knowledge continues ongoing. Miller touches on this mentioning Permanent bondedness in this book (my reference to fantasy bonding).
🪶🌲🌲🌲🦬🌲🌲🌲🪶
thank you... your statement has helped me....
I felt so invisible as a child.
This is so horrible and surreal. But I’m sure my parents tried to shape my individuality to please their egos and false-selfs 🤮
Not learned helplessness. Taught helplessness.
The original fantasy, the root of my rose colored glasses
It makes sense that depression equals separation from our true selves.
🙏🙌
One is free from depression when self esteem (self love) is based on the authenticity of own's feelings & not on the possession of certain qualities. - Alice Miller
Alice Miller’s books should be requisite for anyone going into mental health profession.
So should her son's bio of her-- surprising.
@@SBCBears this is the way that people who don't understand what she's saying always try to discount her.
@@penyarol83 Yet, surely, we may learn from her mistakes, as well as her insights …
@@kathleenmaryparker8662 sure. I have not read her son’s book yet or seen any interviews. I just dislike when people try to take away from her work by citing her son’s issues with his mother as a kind of “gotcha!” point that supposedly invalidates her work or her as a person. Miller has saved so many lives around the world including mine. Please don’t take that away from people who desperately need it by casting doubt on the very valid insights she came to late in her life-long after she had raised her son.
And there should be a 6-month training workshop based on Alice’s work that all mothers and fathers must enroll in and complete before they start raising their child.
Tape changes at 2h30m but stick with it. Absolutely magic.
I'm here thanks to authors Dr. Gabor Mate and Timothy Ferris. Both have been really helpfull throughout my journey. My experience has been that help is out there if we are brave enough to ask for it.
Greetings from Mexico, I hope this knowledge goes around the world.
I want to contribute to your comment about great sources of understanding with the works of Sam Vaknin and Richard Grannon. Indeed, a never ending cascade of reliable and humane help for the troubled mind is available if we are open to it. Greetings from Sonora, Mexico.
Same. Gabor referencing and endorsing it. I bought a hardcopy then was surprised to see it free here! I'll use both.
Can I just ask you and I am not living in Mexico but the UK but in my expereince and many many others including the kind of people Gabor Mate has worked with in down town Vancouver,then it is rarely a matter of simply being brave enough to reach out.What kind of places and help were you able to find might I ask ? because from what I can see there are far more people in need then there are places or people with which to provide support,especially and sometimes even with the financial resources
I’m here by the same link.
Carlos R. Villanueva. Dr GABOR MATE’ is unprecedented in knowledge of medical and immune system problems suffered by abused adult children. Not addressing our childhood trauma is the very thing that is destroying society today. It starts individually than it must be examined collectively. This is the true PANDEMIC ongoing today.
Chapter 1 | 25:09
| The Drama of the Gifted Child and the Psychotherapist's Narcissistic Disturbance
Chapter 2 | 1:13:06 | Depression and Grandiosity as Related Forms of Narcissistic Disturbance
Chapter 3 | 2:00:29 | The Vicious Cycle of Contempt
Is this the whole book or are their more chapter's.?
@@russellm7530 If your questions is still unanswered, yes. It is the full book! It isn’t long and split up into 3 sections :)
Thank you so much for bookmarking the timelines.
Absolutely right that grandiosity is a double edged sword. You can get temporary self admiration or if you fail you will beat yourself up endlessly.
It wouldn't be self admiration neither, but from "others"
I did all my Inner Child work with The Inner Council. Opening this deep trust relationship has allowed me to change one thing after another, attitudes, roles, emotional responses and making decisions with deep integrity. I also do breath-work, kundalini, hiking, cold baths, san pedro cactus and my linear programming has given way to an huge ambiguous everything that I can navigate. I have have almost any experience I want, always use pain or discomfort for progress, call out confidently to guides and masters and sit peaceful and confident that I am at the center of my story. Thoroughly enjoy the plateaus, approach the deep work with honour and know that you deserve the prize waiting at the end. Much support to you all, let's birth this new earth!
Thank you for sharing I never heard of the inner council. I will research...
Great comment
Society ensures, and enforces, the keeping of parental exercise of power and punishment a secret.
The first edition of this book was one of the most powerful reads ever. I offer it now as a cautionary tale to protect the children 💜✨🌱
💛🌼💛
A therapist should not be a therapist until they understand all of Alice Miller‘s books.
Amen.
Understanding her book is valuable if it leads that therapist to BE DOING their own work. I read this book long ago, and as a person traumatized early and in many ways, as Alice states herein, it was intellectually fascinating, and made (makes) sense, but that's not enough. One who doesn't have the fear and courage to walk the path, cannot adequately support or assist another who is wanting/needing to do so. It was many years later that it began to hit me emotionally. I've never been the same, and am still trying to muster the courage (also repair a lifelong nervous system in fight/flight) to continue. I have trained as a therapist, but had to stop as I was myself overwhelmed. Alice knew of what she spoke, and yet, as she states herein, I don't deify, so I'm not surprised (anymore) by her son's revelations. Hell, Bessel Van der Kolk ("The Body Keeps the Score") had low heartrate variability (HRV), which is indicative of poor Vagal tone (Polyvagal Theory-Stephen Porges; Parasympathetic-rest/digest), which is related to connectedness, and said that Rolfing improved that for him. Never discussed in his book, and yet, as Alice states, we're drawn to heal others until at some point we realize we're wounded too, and are ourselves on the journey for which others have entrusted us to be there for them. Chiron-the wounded healer.
@@Eric-tj3tg Chiron is 2* from my Sun in Pisces in Opposition to Pluto-Uranus in Virgo. I hear you.
@@websurfer5772 Thank you.
@@websurfer5772 Appreciate you hearing. I know nothing of things Astrological, perhaps you could explain further, because if I said I hear you, I'd be lying. lol
Finally! A book based on real life.
This is wonderful. Hope at least one person from my counselling group took the time to follow the link to this very useful resource. Thank you kindly.
Over their lifetimes, it also could be said for "lost" children of narcs, "How long is a day in the dark?"
💔
Very Long…. So far 2yrs…I’m wondering when will it end.
Please do not make the mistake of skipping the all-important PREFACE (0:00-17:00) which has disclaimers describing Alice Miller's evolution since originally having written this book. Even more importantly, do not skip the FOREWORD (17:01 - 25:09) which will reset the compass for the entire journey of this book. For example, here is a partial excerpt: "In the following pages I am trying to come closer to the origins of this loss of the self. While doing so, I shall not use the term ‘narcissism’. However, in my clinical descriptions I shall speak occasionally of a healthy narcissism and depict the ideal case of a person who is genuinely alive with free access to the true self and his authentic feelings. I shall contrast this with narcissistic disorders -with the true self’s solitary confinement within the prison of the false self. This I see less as an illness than as a tragedy. And it is my aim in this book to break away from judgmental isolating and therefore discriminating terminology. "
Your comment is helpful to me. Thank you. 🌼
Shocking. WOW. From the very beginning at the earliest times you survive by creating a defensive personality that isn’t even the real you. You just gave yourself over to the needy mother. And in doing so, lost YOU yourself. Who now you may not know or be in full communication with.
A stunning work of psychology.
Thank you so much for this syopsis. 👍
Totally reserved, polite and good... This was me until a few years ago.
Such a beautiful calming voice 🥰
chapter 1 starts around 25:19
Thank you so much (:
Ooooh man, thank you! Thank you! thank you!
Thank you! I listened to about 7 mins before I looked into the comments.. 😑
Thank you....
Thank you
The emptiness and constant depression she mentioned. Depression being a form of sadness because of the lost self and how grandiosity is defence for depression too. How to uncover? What does it take? I'm sick of depression and emptiness. How to overcome?
Self love , you start to accept who you are flaws and all then start to nourish your self and rep aren’t yourself
To understand that the words your mother and father gave you were of their own damnation. To recognize that while wise they were comforting themselves. To understand that the badness that they thought of when you did things wrong, were most false. that your childhood cannot be gained back, that you cannot change what has already happened. the only thing that remains is to accept yourself, them and the external forces as they too have personal stamps from others. In other words: recognizing your personal stamp on you, and loving yourself anyway.
this might be a bit late but I suggest the antidote to depressive feelings is a willingness to feel feelings that have otherwise been suppressed because they feel too threatening or uncomnfortable or painful.Developing some kind of container for these feelings through compassion or loving kindness is a good way to engage with them and not to judge them.The emptiness and lack of affect from depression is to do with the literal de-pression of our feelings and a reluctance to feel certain things
Start to RE parent yourself. Photos, stuffed animals, ice-cream..walks a puppy...color and hug yourself. Talk to your little self. It takes time, it works.
watch youtube videos on positive self talk!
This was awesome. Thank you for posting this book.
These writings have helped me in more understanding the origins of this destructive behavior by using empathy and compassion towards he narcissist, something never given in return. There will be no forgiveness until this disorder is fully understood by the abused. Don’t be afraid to love and commit... but don’t forget to listen to your intuition.. letting your heart guid you, not guard you.
Blessing to all the workers and changers. Use your empathy to break the mold and be a better person. Do not repeat he cycle. God is love. Love is the pinnacle of achievement.
Parents threaten their child with the withdrawal of their love (for her) if she does not do what they want.
I am one of these people. My mother had a dead infant girl who died on the first day of life after being born. I was born almost exactly one year later. My infant self therefore was forced into the position of being what this sad depressed woman wanted or needed to soothe her pain. I got very little back at this earliest time that would support a normal ego development. I just gave myself away to my mom bc I had to survive. And this journey towards the true self can be a hell at times but seems worth it. How does one mature when none of the structures that would facilitate that are in place at the very very beginning? You don’t. And the maybe maybe one day you fully wake up and you say not much of this was really me. This is me! And here I truly am. At last, at long last. Follow your North Star. 💫
Chapter 2 starts at 1:13:04
❤️an extraordinary human being is Dr. Miller. I'm writing on new models of economy, ironically, this body of work informs my vision to a greater extent than does the works of many revered economists.
CPTSD. I am, too, a part of this communityOnly wish this addressed the violent, raging father.
I had a violent raging alcoholic mother. My father was in prison
You'll find more of that in her book For Your Own Good: Hidden Cruelty in Child-Rearing and the Roots of Violence. It discusses the childhood of Hitler among others.
Inner child work may be helpful. Don't run from the pain. Ask it what kt has to say and where it came from. For forms and question see this Jungian life on you tube. Manic defences-melanie klien. These defenses will be present (achievements) in the narcissistic personality.
Teachers are very similar to psychiatrists in our narcisistic Features :))
Only the scrupulous keeping and speaking of the truth of my abused childhood has had the power of preventing me from becoming - as a doctor who knew my father said I might have been -"feeble-minded"...
congratulations and good work to you. May you continue gaining in health & strength.
@@penyarol83Thank you
what is a weak mind?
Same
The real magic for me starts at two hours in 💥
_that is what she did say!_ 🤭
@@lorishu48103 It probably doesn't ring true to you because you were scapegoated. Good luck on your journey
What does she say then?
@@ranevc just listen to the audiobook
1:35:20 The depressive child, the way you said this 😭
"When the patient has truly emotionally worked through the history of his childhood and thus regained his sense of being alive then the goal of the therapy has been reached"
🌿🪶🌿
It is so peculiar that despite all her knowledge and wisdom about what parents should and should not do, she failed to apply it on her own son. He was deeply traumatized and as a child frequently physically abused by his father, while Alice (according her son) didn't do anything to help him when he needed help.
Lo , I wrote two replies to your post, but those are not visible for some reason. Now I will try to reply to myself and put the "like" on your post so you got notice. Maybe it will work and I hope that I will manage to answer your question. I will emphasize that my first post wasn't in any way meant to diminish amazing work of Alice Miller. I find her books very enlightening and I am deeply grateful that she wrote them.
About sources you asked about, it is her son Martin Miller who after Alice died was asked about his mother's work and so and he claims that she was not even close to be a mother like one may assume that she was after reading her books. Unfortunately, she is not alive anymore to confront these claims, but that is what he says. It looks like he is somewhat damaged, mostly because he was often beaten by his abusive father. However he blames his mother that she never did anything to help him when his father was violent.
There is a documentary "Who's afraid of Alice Miller", search on IMDB for more info, I hope it is possible for you to find some way to see it where you live.
Then there is a book that her son Martin Miller wrote, title on it is something like "The true (or "real") drama of the gifted child". I didn't read it yet, don't know if I will either, but I saw in the description on some book dealer sites that he writes about his own problems and troubled relation with his mother.
Even here on RUclips you can find interviews with her son, just search for his name, Martin Miller. He became therapist too, it confirms some of his mother's theories, that therapists are often "gifted children" and that their past gives them extra compassion and willingness to help other people. I guess that Alice is a good example of it too, may she rest in peace.
I don’t think she had worked through her own issues until her son was grown.
@@Sejo088 "Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner. Far more critical than what we know or what we don't know is what we don't want to know" ~ Eric Hoffer
@@Sejo088 Yes, she intellectually knew it, but couldn't live it. This is unfortunately not uncommon in this field. We've got a Psychological Bypass to go along with the Spiritual Bypass that so often occurs on the road to healing.
true although you say she isn't what she appears because her son said she could have done something, but the reality is that she was a women in a weaker body, often murders occur from the people you know most and considering that men commit more murder on the tails of the population distributions of ASPD I would say that my mom was at no insignificant risk of being killed, but she did something and left him, she could have very well not left but it would have been at my expense and feeling that she was to blame which I probably would have, however it still wouldn't have been her fault if she hadn't since I can't say that I would have done differently since that would have acutely endangered myself and my kid if I were in that circumstance to make the choice to take away control from someone who tried to gain as much of it as he could, which you are doing by leaving. We all like to imagine ourselves as heroic when the truth is that no one makes that choice, and it rather already is in your proclivity to act against your interest to begin with, if you are having to think about it then it won't happen. Unfortunately it is not anyone's fault in these circumstances but I can see how it could seem that way.
Thanks for uploading! It's impossible to find an audiobook of this on itunes or audible.
+Geneva Hodgson Natalia Ly said 3 moths ago : "chapter 1 starts around 25:19"
Chapter 3 2:00:30
Sins of the forefathers shall be visited upon next generations. We must tend our gardens to produce not of the original seedlings but healthier species of similar.
COURTS OF HEAVEN TEACHINGS by ROBERT HENDERSON and TESTIMONY
Alice Miller also wrote a book on Hitler. She said he was beaten every day by his father.
Is that true?
@@carolrose it is true. His father was a horrible tyrant. Hitler reenacted his childhood on millions of people. That is what dictators do, as Alice Miller explains (in her book For Your Own Good: Hidden Cruelty in Child-Rearing and the Roots of Violence, for example).
I read about Adolf Hitler's abusive childhood at the hands of his father and I can see how that would mess anybody up, but Alice Miller also said that he was "emotionally abandoned by his mother" and that "A child can avoid becoming a criminal if he has the chance in childhood to meet at least one person who is not cruel to him or maybe even likes or understands him." I've read that Hitler's mother, contrary to what Miller says, actually doted on him and they had a close relationship. So it seems his mother did care for him after all. Can anyone explain what turned him into the man despised globally to this day?
@@philiprandall9994 Apparently there's the most common form of creating narcissism.
The primary caregiver was likely the mother but she wasn't able to protect the child from being phsyically abused, that's a form of abandonment for a child.
The mother allowed her child to be attacked over and over again, his father probably told him how worthless he was, to compensate mother would tell him how amazing and amazing he was.
The side that tells him he's great and amazing feels better so he decides to take on it but he keeps on being abused. Believing he's great helped him survive the abuse now he can take revenge on whoever hurt him but the perpetrator (the father) is already gone.
Anger is externalized. He is great and if he becomes the abuser he will never be abused again.
@@Sarablueunicornwow
I think the whole ultimate point of this work is to lay the drama 🎭 down. After a time, a therapeutic process, a journey within, if it is fully successful, their no longer is held inside a dramatic personae, a cast of characters, no wicked witch mother, no Oedipal father, no peripheral or subordinate figures…only one person remains…and s/he is the last one standing…and no longer a character in a drama. The longer title of the book is “drama” of the gifted child…journey of the True Self. A Self no longer in a mental or emotional drama.
Is there an audiobook from her on FOR YOUR OWN GOOD.
Yes
Yes.
You can get one for like 15$ on Audible.
Some versions are on RUclips.
I dreamt I was dead and my brother and father were throwing a red balloon back and forth...
Holy 🦆
Chapter 1 Starts at 25:08
Chapter 2 starts at 01:13:05
" The grandiose person is never really free; first because he is excessively dependent on admiration from others, and second, because his self-respect is dependent on qualities, functions, and achievements that can suddenly fail "
Alice Miller, The Drama of the Gifted Child: The Search for the True Self
“Ni con la mejor buena voluntad podemos liberarnos de los modelos que tan tempranamente aprendimos de nuestros padres, pero quedaremos libres de ellos en cuanto nos permitamos sentir y advirtamos como sufríamos bajo esos modelos.”
This book is so so so powerful work.
what can i gain from hthis knowledge. that you need to have a psycho analyst is indeed a good thing.don´t get me wrong, but i think that what has never been there cant be restored. the train so to speak is gone. truelly cruel to be used as a narcicistic source. sucked out from generation to generation and we do even need a pass for children. tzz
I agree. Listen to the intro/prologue. She ends up leaving psychoanalysis behind but archived the book in original form to show her old beliefs. From personal experience I know that this (psychoanalytic) theory is deeply flawed at best because the field is narcissistic in itself likely due to Freud's narcissism. How ridiculous to imagine that an adult could transfer their feelings of being a neglected helpless infant unto a therapist in a clinic and work out the original conflict this way. You are right. The damage done to the brain not to mention body by trauma is not only damage inflicted but disability from the absence of necessary nurturing critical to brain development, attachment and life without constant anxiety, depression, struggle. Life will be a battle for us and for me what matters is knowing that I am the one in control of my healing not giving away power to anyone including a therapist.
Actually techniques have been developed for emotional processing of past unmet needs. I have found those processes useful myself to take the edge off. Ok it can never replace something that wasn't there, but it can take the edge off.
@@lorishu48103 therapy can help I get that you don't trust therapists but you cant technically give your power away if you have the attitude of not giving it away, people like you who are rightfully cynical are the least likely to have their power taken even in positions of vulnerability from across a therapist's chair.
Question: I know the book itself isn’t long but is this the complete version? Great great read/hear/find btw 👍👍👍✌️
I’d like to know what make the gifted one turn empath instead of narcissistic. Chew on that!
Empath= Golden Child; Fawn/Freeze
Narcissist= Scapegoated child; fight/flight
Both are coming from the same situations, and both are false selves.
Maybe individual personality…or leaning to mimic the narc parent by being the golden child
While the other- was not as strong under the neglect, physical and emotional abuse…. I learned recently that my mother is a covert narc…
She treated us all differently…the ones that’s mimicked her evil ways were rewarded by being over looked in their wrong doing…my oldest brother and sister were more like her siblings b/c she had to grow up with them
The last 3 of us girls were mudd to her
I still have a relationship with my mother I told her about her illness and pointed out how she ran two my sisters looney, one leaving her husband to be homeless because my mother used her then dismissed her by changing her lock on her home…when my fragile sister key didn’t work she broke realizing it was done on puprpose
My other sister has distanced herself from the consistant verbal abuse.
And I know that I’ve always been the most hated child the youngest… my mother secretly only want to see me suffer, she gives bad advice that could ruin me…she pretends nice in hopes that I will send her money for birthdays or holidays (I stopped that) so pretends but just wants to personally hear me fail. I moved out of state from the dysfunction.
I wouldn’t doubt she sicked my 2 oldest siblings on me to attempt to make my life miserable…
Once I didn’t contect her much do to my career…she had a sister contact me and pretend she was having dementia and declining…
I am a nurse!! 😂
I assess ppl for fun…she just didn’t like feeling disposed of.
She then started purposely making me miss family reunions and special occasions as punishment because I moved out of state…
She’d call after the events to say “Oh, you should of saw…oh, you missed….” So I can say “Why didn’t you tell me?”
And she’d say “I thought you knew!”, “Oh, you’re too busy!”, “I did tell you!”
This started my dark night of the soul…
I explained to my nephew that she was doing these things on purpose and he said it was all in my head untill she pulled the rug from under his mother sending her into the streets to homelessness…he begged my mother (his grandmother) to apologize and mend that relationship
I flat out told her you are a narcissist due to your being a orphan at 14yo. You where wrong to have my sister wait on you hand and foot, spend her money and when she tore her rotator and couldn’t go back to work….my mother changed her locks.
Recently, my mother tried to convince me that I’m crazy needing to seek help…because I don’t want to give her ANY SUPPLY. No info about what I’m doing day to day.
I told her I’m going through something and I can’t tell her much because I don’t know… I told her she is the one sick to make someone question their sanity. I said “I’m fine, I’m happy and content living a wonderful life and I want to talk about is God.
She said “I don’t want to hear that $hit!”
I said “Well, I want to just be to myself and quiet till I figure out what God wants me to do”
She said “Well, call me when you find out!”
She’s 82yo. I’m trying to be nice in case she dye suddenly due to lack of adequate supply!!
She still has 3 siblings wrapped even the one that’s homeless begging to take the couch or for a hot meal….while she left her husband because of this mental state my mother triggered.
If you made it hear😂 it felt good getting this out!
Be blessed
✝️🙏🏽💜
@@SanctifiedLady I hear you, and am wishing you the best.
@@SanctifiedLady ? no I strongly disagree! I am an empath and NEVER was a "Golden Child". I took care of my ROTTEN MOTHER who used me to "PROTECT HER" while ALLLL the others were FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! My MOTHER mentaly TORTURED ME!
@@Eric-tj3tgi am the scapegoat and also the empath, not the narcissist. I think being a truth-teller steers a child toward being the empath.
I don't relate to r/Gifted forums from how intelligent I am but from how I am intelligent, because I am autistic and causes me to go through similar experiences in relating to others despite being average
Excellent book.
GOLD!!! thank you
Very much related to the Pinocchio take, marionettes, compulsively moved around by strings controlled by others, made of wood, false, hollowed out on the inside, not really understanding his own conditioned state, desiring to be a real boy and not a puppet. Yet he has a Jiminy Cricket, a sort of small conscience that guides him on his path. This is the true self guiding you, calling you, waking you up.
7:55 this is an apparent mischaracterization of Freud’s personal attitude, though perhaps professionally not. He is quoted as having said “The secret of the human soul lies in the psychic dramas of childhood. Get to the bottom of these dramas and healing will come.” So, if psychoanalytical training protected abusive parents it was because Freud’s own abusive father had not yet died. Which is far more palatable than Miller walking back the title of this book with her claim that she’d only meant the gift for intuiting an abusive parent’s moods- because it’s publication emptied-out her waiting room. Sorta makes one wonder more about her use of the word drama than gifted.
M-A-S-T-E-R-P-I-E-C-E.
Might take 10 years to get what she is stating and allow it to sink in.
Wow. What a woman. What a book. Thank you 🙏🏼 Jesus loves you 😘💞
She's my hero. Absolute genius in my opinion.
9:24
17:03 Forward
25:13 Chapter 1
Amazing
@ 1:39:00 white noise ???
Just book marking
1:20:05
Above all, I need to see the truth so as to be able to live 🥹wow🥹🥹🥹🥹🥹
2:27:11 this hurts..
25:10 Chapter 1
🦄 Dolt by John Rickel 🦄
1:58.42 key to the door ❤️
You’re not you. A shocking revelation. You gave yourself away.
The movie a History of Violence shows dramatically this odd awakening process.
She knows me well....
Nov. 18th 6am 2:50:20
2022
1:06:46 Ch.2
Not Sure If I Agree Or Disagree...
Cierto , en español por favor 😅
espanol por favor
ya very nice so beautiful
I'm having to force myself to listen to this audiobook before I start studying what her son had to say, otherwise I would never be able to begin this information however just a slight bit of digging,...
This book of female author Miller, was a narcissist herself and she preached how horrendous it is on the child when abused all the while she was abusing her OWN son and this poor man grew up knowing his mother was advocating in public forums not to beat your child and giving details of how horrible it is for the child, all their lives while at those moments in time activity abusing him. I came across a snip of a black and white video clip of her being young enough to have had young children still, and she's talking this her sh-t.
Haven't gotten into it deep enough to note if shs physically beat him but we all know psychological and emotional abuse is worse than being beaten physically.
So what we have here is a 1945's ish 1950's maniacal mother female monster who studied her inner FALSE SELF and played the role in real life form and in living color as she saw herself as
"in fantasy form" as a high-and-mighty psychologist and all the while she feigned being a good person while going after people like herself
Oh, she demonized her own self and profited from it and was able to stand as a pillar in the community🤷♀️holy crap 🤢 omggg Jesus Christ.
I was going to gripe about RUclips having never suggested this book to me after I've been studying narcissism extensively for 4 years now, also came across a slight bit of information that mentioned her work as being censored oh, maybe this is why.
I'm going to go ahead and speculate that this woman was basically a modern day (before?) Sam Vaknin, only she was remaining closeted and I'm still not sure which narc came first as I remember?? Vaknin blooming out late 70's ish .
Well daum,... here we have yet another narcissist telling us about narcissism -at least we know it's good information coming from a narcissist type brain which normal people otherwise cannot even fathom.
Okayyyy -Let's roll up our sleeves and do this.
This should be a wild ride because as I am learning from this book I'm going to be cognizant- taking it in as mentioned as such
Oh, I'm so glad I've learned this bit of information from the comments on how this woman
"knew what the hell she was doing bc she was one (narc) and had a son who had to wait till she died before he could tell what a horrible btch she was was".
He was so messed up he had to become a psychologist, I cannot wait to get done with this so I can get onto him. His name is Martin Miller and apparently there are some Jewish ties in the story, as I've often wondered Nazi Germany, the Holocaust oh, how did they just come out of that and live their lives normally and not turn into monsters themselves? I'll speculate that this is probably what we're going to get into
-well perhaps some did so...
and so here we go.
Regardless, you can’ beat getting it straight from the horses mouth. She’s not the first narcissist to write a book. You should take note and also think about forgiveness...You sound very bitter about everything. God Bless your recovery!
@@samcarrs I agree, look at her RUclips name
@Self Esteem "Many of the insights of the saint stem from his experience as a sinner.
Far more critical than what we know or what we don't know is what we don't want to know.
Our greatest pretenses are built up not to hide the evil and the ugly in us, but our emptiness. The hardest thing to hide is something that is not there.
Self-righteousness is a manifestation of self-contempt. Rudeness is a weak imitation of strength. Rudeness luxuriates in the absence of self-respect. Passionate hatred can give meaning and purpose to an empty life." ~ Eric Hoffer
"Disrespect is the weapon of the weak. Contempt is the weapon of the weak and a defense against one’s own despised and unwanted feelings.
If a mother respects both herself and her child from his very first day onward, she will never need to teach him respect for others. Only the mourning for what one has missed at the crucial time can lead to real healing." ~ Alice Miller
@@izsoirie7567 You're certainly welcome. 🙏🏻
"The aim of therapy is not to correct the past, but to enable the patient to confront his own history, and to grieve over it.
Acquiring the ability to grieve - thus giving up the illusion of having a "happy" childhood and feeling and perceiving the evils endured in childhood and the blows received in their full scope - gives the person in crisis back his creativity and vitality; "It finally saves the person in the passion for greatness from the troubles and addiction of striving like Sisyphus..."
The change from rage to sorrow makes it possible for the vicious circle of repetition to be broken.
For the human soul is virtually indestructible, and its ability to rise from the ashes remains as long as the body draws breath."
Alice Miller, For Your Own Good: Hidden Cruelty in Child-Rearing and the Roots of Violence
She wasn't in touch with most of this until much later than the period she was raising her own child. I wish people would appreciate that. She probably was led to all this partly from her experience with her own son. That supposedly she was never able to fully deal with that is not uncommon. She had flaws as all humans do. She in her teachings mentions the weaknesses of all humans and surely, she was no exception. Her sons motive to me is a question, but we have no idea. I haven't read his book, but he teaches her views so obviously none of this undermines her teaching.
57:50
I disagree with the "passing it on" my mother was a spoiled brat...but later..was not popular with her peers..
2:46:10
The 1st book was genius!
Ed Green. Is that FOR YOUR OWN GOOD?
@@laraoneal7284 have you read it?
@@edgreen8140 I just ordered it. Read excerpts years ago when in recovery process for childhood trauma. I’m ordering all of her books today. Daniel Mackler a former therapist here on YT has mentioned her many times. John Bradshaw also has talked about her also when he was doing his ON THE FAMILY PBS series in the 90s. His book On the Family is excellent also. TY for responding.
@@laraoneal7284 dan is correct he's good. Makes me wish i was still working. Watching kernberg.
@@laraoneal7284 read them before you decide to read kernberg . Brillant but hard read. I was always object relations oriented. So when people treat me as the withdrawing or abusive caretaker. I don't say much and don't take it personally.
1:27:37
1:04:04
3:05:05
❤️
👍
Just goes round and round repeating its self over and over .never really saying anything useful that I couldn't have gotten in 15 to 20 min .
Tracy hill your just too brilliant.
For me, reading Alice Miller is like therapy. It's not just meant to be informative; it's meant to establish an emotional connection and allow the concepts to sink in slowly through a bit of repetition. I used to think she was repetitive, but that was before I really connected with and understood her. When I finally did, I read all of her books one after another and still wanted more. I think it's in the emotional connection you make with the concepts, the truths, and her words accompany you as you process these facts and old feelings.
The book is only 3 hours. It’s not written for the lay ear. It sets up a framework/blueprint for a therapeutic process that could take quite a long time on the order of years.
🦄 Dolt by John Rickel 🦄
1:16:48
🦄 Dolt by John Rickel 🦄
🦄 Dolt by John Rickel 🦄