What Is The Best Calibre For Stalking In The Highlands?
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- Опубликовано: 4 авг 2024
- In this months film, we discuss the best calibre for hunting in the Scottish Highlands.
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Totally agree with ya J, seeing that strike is most important, 30.06 for me.
Interesting viewpoints from the experts. I use .243 on CWD, Muntjac and Roe, 6.5 Creedmoor with 143gn ELD-X for Fallow and .308 with150-178gn heads for Sika and Reds. I used to use a 25-06 with great success for every species out to 250yds, so like a fool I got rid of it and have regretted it ever since. I guess I’ll have to get myself a .270 now. A thought-provoking video. Thanks! 👍🏻
I agree, I use a .270 for all highland stalking! zeroed at 100m with a ballistic turret that I often keep dialled up a couple of centimetres
Really interesting video, and with two Gentlemen who should know enough on this subject. Well done, and thank you!
instablaster.
My father was a professional Deer Culler in New Zealand in the 60s & 70s. He shot over 4500 deer. Almost all with a Mannlicher Schonauer in 270 Win. 150 grain zero at 225 yrds.
He might be a bit long in the tooth now but my thinking is that if you gave him a 7mm08 with 140 grn ballistic tips he might have changed over.
I tried all the normal calibers starting off with the .222 sako as it was all the rage in the 70s and did work very well bush stalking providing you hit the right spot.
I was meat hunting and mostly head and neck shooting in the Urewera national park.
So the .222 did really well with little noise which was very important when you wanted a maximum return with as little ground covered as possible.
Now days we have tin cans, so noise is not so important.
Anyway I tried the 243, 308, 22-250, even the 2506, I favoured the bland .308 as the best allrounder.
Then in the 90s I tried the 7mm08 which I now consider the best midrange cal out there.
I never had a problem with 140 ballistic tips and there was always a good blood trail to follow.
Being a north Island bush hunter we did have a few laughs at the south Island tops hunters who worshipped the .270.
I would not use the .7mm08 beyond 400 meters though.
I have done plenty of tahr hunting on the eastern side of the south island and I choose the 7mm wsm for that.
its all down to personal taste but what would hunters talk about at night in front of the fire if it wasn't about calibers lol
@@tonyfluertynaturephotograp5272 My Dad only really disliked two calibers. The 243 which he loathed. He had a Browning BAR and after loosing to many Deer to good shots sold it. And the 308... which is just a 3006, but about 15% worse in every ballistic category. So why bother. His favorite 7mm was the old 7x57 Mauser.... Big fan of the 222 rem also.... He wouldn't have swapped for all the tea in China.
@@MBCGRS 7mm08 is almost identical to the 7x57 with slightly better down range performance in a shorter case.
I think it the ideal all round hunting cal for NZ.
I loved my .222 vixen but it was ethically limited to 200 yards on red deer.
I was fine with the .243 but I would never go back to one.
The 7mm08 is a plain jane cal , kicks less than the .308 but its just as efficient in putting game on the ground.
There is nothing romantic about it , no history, nothing.
I do miss the 70s and 80s, NZ was like the wild west and we had the possum fur trade to keep us busy during the winter.
@@tonyfluertynaturephotograp5272 Hello Tony! It's James (CH)
All the rifles that you have mentioned for Highland stalking are beaten by the 25-06.
The stories about a Mrs Patricia Strutt of Kingairloch shooting 2000 highland deer with it are legend.
I used a Savage weather warrior 25-06 for shooting hundreds of deer in UK.
I moved to NZ in 2000 and shoot at least 100 deer per year.
I now have a Blaser R93 Left hand,Full overbarrel suppressor,with Zeiss Victory or Thermion XP50 scopes.
I handload 117g SST with 54.5g of ADI 2213sc for 3200fps.
I have also shot hundreds of himalayan Tahr at up to 600 metres with no issues whatsoever.
The 06 is ballistically better than it's parent cased 30-06 or 270.
I can't think of a better Highland stalking calibre.
If it works it fits, respect for this count of animals. The 25-06 is a underrated universal caliber, like the 7x57 Mauser, but only to compare.
My 6,5x47 Lapua with 129gr Nosler ABLR starting with round 2950fps has on 400 meter 2260FPS and 2000 Joule, while your SST has 2180FPS and 1680Joule.
No great difference, but this little pill (starting 250fps slower with 12.5 grain less powder)could keep up with the 25-06 very well (and caught up with 80fps by 400meter).
But only and that is too bad. To less high BC Bullets for the .257 Diameter. This is also the little disadvantage for the .270 compare with .264 & .284 BC Bullets. But with 150gr AB LR and Eld-X (for the people, who loves it) the .270 is up again.
I have hunted all my life with one rifle in 7mm mag. From US, Africa, and Norway and I never had a bad experience.
You've not shot much then
@@alexdalgleish2838 I reload 150 rounds a year, so I don't know if that is a lot of shooting each year, but I find that is more then enough to keep me shooting on target. I do not use reload for hunting however.
@@justinschmidt4692 The 7mm mag will never let you down on thin skinned animals like deer.
I have and successfully use the 308 win but the 30-06 is the most effective cartridge that I've seen in My 52 years on this earth.
Let Me add that I use a 165 grain Federal Fusion or Bowler Partition and aim for the high shoulder, Your animal will bounce off the ground it hits so hard and no tracking!! Good Luck and God Bless...
Thanks you for posting this. I had been wondering what center fire rifle calibers were popular for deer stalking in Scotland and over what ranges deer are typically shot; very helpful to get the expert opinions! I live in the USA (though a Brit by birth) and have shot mule deer and pronghorn in Wyoming, as well as white tail deer in my home state of Ohio. I have killed deer at ranges from as far as 325 yards in the mountains of Wyoming (with my 7mm Rem Magnum), to as close as 20 yards on my property in Ohio (using a 45-70 Govt, as only straight walled rifle cartridges are legal to hunt deer in Ohio). Anyway, I agree that the .270 Winchester is a truly excellent all round cartridge and I have also shot mulies and pronghorn in WY with my .270. At the ranges being talked about here, so about 250 yards max, from what I understand, the .243 Win, 6.5mm creedmoor or Swede, .308 Win, .270 Win, 7mm Rem magnum (and many others) should all do the job very well; all now have established histories as excellent deer calibers and quality hunting ammo is available for all of these. The high sectional density of the 6.5s, in a properly constructed, appropriate weight hunting bullet, should allow that round to penetrate bone and hit the vitals in medium game like deer, unless the animal is markedly quartering, in which case, the shot should not be taken at all. Completely agree that a through and through shot will likely leave a better blood trail for tracking and the heavier hitting cartridges will certainly do that. However, recoil does matter and can cause flinching so, in general, the bigger the kick, the harder for most people to shoot accurately. For some, the .270 is just too much. I would disagree that the .308 and .270 have similar recoil; with equivalent weight rifles, the .270 has noticeably more kick (I own rifles in both calibers). So at the end of they day, may I suggest that whichever of these suitable "deer calibers" people can shoot most accurately, should be the guiding principle in their choice for the stalk.
Agreed, that's usually a guiding principle, to an extent. However, I think you'll find that most highland stalkers will think the .243 a little light and the 6.5 Swedish a little too pronounced in terms of trajectory.
@@peterjones4442 Thank you for your reply and the perspective. Although my wife and I have lived in the US for nearly 30 years, we lived in Scotland for many years before then (we loved it there) and a trip back for deer stalking is a dream for me, so this is very helpful as I think about a trip over. Although I have lots of opportunities here to shoot deer, stalking red deer in Scotland is the iconic hunting experience... One quick question. I'm not clear what you mean by "pronounced" regarding the 6.5 Swedish trajectory.
Depending on the bullet weight and at typical hunting distances, the 6.5 Swedish typically experiences more bullet drop than some comparable calibres. Thanks for your input!
Gentleman, please try the 7x57 (AKA 7mm mauser /.275 Rigby) or the 7x64 (AKA 7mm Brenneke) :)
I could have told you the answer to this from the title knowing jason.
I’ve never owned a .270 but I do agree that it would be an awesome all rounder.
However i shoot a lot of deer with my .243.
And I also have my 7rem mag for hill shooting. It is in my mind the best for beating wind and hits hard at extended range.
Deer cullers in New Zealand used the .222 and the .223 for decades on red deer of any size. They issued the .270 as well, but only the Field Officers/Supervisors used them because they didn't have to shoot much deer themselves.
And that proves the question of what calibre? is irrelevant to most extent. It's where it hits that counts. For example your could kill deer with a .22 rimfire if you shot it in the back of the head at 5 yards.
Very interesting video!
However it sounds like you are a bit mix up with the velocity:
270 Winchester
2850fps is the velocity for a good factory load with a 150gn bullet
+3100 fps is the velocity usually obtain with the 130gn bullet.
30-06 Springfield
Velocity for a 150gn projectile should be around 150 fps more compare to a 308 so around 2950fts. Some ammunition brands water down the 30-06 to 308 level this is very unfortunate.
What is ammo availability like for the .275 Rigby? Seems an ideal choice for highland stalking.
The 270 Winchester is an excellent choice. 130 Ballastic Tip should be closer to 3,100 FPS.
It´s a pity, that those two Gentlemen don´t know the 7x64. In my opinion it is a little superior to the .270 Win.
I shot a lot off deer with my 7x64, RWS kegelspits, 8 gram, 120 grain on the spot!
a lot of quality bullets are more powerful than 7x64 than 270
Very interesting film... but, in my opinion, the best round today for "long" range deer stalking in big open spaces like the Highlands, is the "new" 6.5 PRC (Precision Rifle Cartridge) developed by Hornady. The 6.5 PRC calibre is a super fast and very accurate mini magnum ...a 6.5 PRC Hornady 143 grains ELD-X (BC .620) has more energy than a .270 Win. at 300 meters with LESS recoil. I think it ticks all the boxes: flat shooting, precision, not too powerful, minimum recoil... is this is the future? Ciao!
I also like the look of the PRC but there can be issues with feeding which puts me off. Availability of ammo is another issue.
@@jasondoyle6061 ...don't know about feeding issues (maybe with some rifles?), definitely ammo availability is for now an issue.
Where’s the 25-06
If Winchester had launched the 270 in 2019 and called it the 6.8 Highland or something catchy or cool everyone would want one, the only reason why it’s not so popular these days is it has a undeserving reputation as been a high recoiling inaccurate old fashioned round, I hand load a 150 grain long range AccuBond with a BC of 591 G1 to 3100 FPS with Reloder 26 and shoots 0.5” groups if I do my part, not many non magnum calibers can match that, it’s a magnum of its own kind.
You are very right if it was called 6.8 it would be something new ,nothing for deer is a better calibre than .270
You are right rl 26 has breathed new life into the 270 👍
i shoot a 243 but limit my self out to 300 yards depending on the day but i'm a big believer in stalking you should get in as close as you can.
If its roe okay, but if your out with us for Sika or red your not using your 243 ☹️
Shooting deer at 300 yards isnt stalking lol.
@@kris308100 read the comment again ya monkey.
My two cents' worth: 7x57mm/.275 Rigby for all species of deer, antelope and elk in North America with .30-06 for bigger or tougher game. There is nothing in North America you cannot ethically take with a 7x57mm/.275 Rigby. Use the right bullet, practice diligently, build solid shooting fundamentals, and put the bullet where you are supposed to. Do all that, and you can nail the biggest elk and it will drop within 10-30 yards of where you plugged it. And the recoil of rifles shooting this cartridge is mild which allows you to do just what the man said here, i.e. see the impact on your targeted animal and assess whether you need to track the animal, fire a second shot, etc.
We live in a golden age of ammunition, Colin touched on this but didn’t peruse it, the composition of the projectile makes more difference to lethality than its diameter.
Its a very good point. Thanks for sharing.
I didnt know the mitchell brothers where shooters ? Bit stalking around the sqr next 😂😂😂
The Highlands are very windy. A long thin bullet will buck the wind better than a shorter fat one. A 160 grain 6.5mm bullet would do very well, or a heavier 175 grain 7mm bullet would be the ticket in a windy situation. Can't beat a Nosler Partition for either caliber. I like the 6.5 Swedish for a lightweight stalker rifle, but in 7mm a .280, or 7x64 if you're in Europe, with a 175 grain long, higher BC bullet with some decent power to reach out a few hundred yards would be ideal, IMHO.
Absolutely true man. 👍👍👍
Agree; the 270 is THE ideal caliber
So do I
6,5x55.....270....in that order.
If you add shot placement and a lot of practice to the equation, you are ready for a successful hunt👍
For a stalking rifle you nailed it. 6.5 Swedish all the way. For hunting the Highlands, where it's very windy most of the time, the heavier the grain the better. If you can get a 160 grain bullet that would be ideal, reloaded to give it some longer range oomph. That should buck the wind with not too much problem.
6.5 x 55 is a great round if hand loaded, however if your using factor loads it’s a very weak round it beardy achieves 2500 FPS a 243 with a 100 grain bullet has more power after 200 yards, this is due to ammunition manufacturers holding back pressures due to there being a lot of old rifles out there with weak actions that can’t take the pressure that is possible in a modern firearm, there is lots of potential with the correct powder and the decent case capacity to get good velocity out of the 6.5 sweed
I’m gonna stick with my two .308 rifles
I disagree with the comment about the 243 not giving an exit wound on deer sized game. That is just not true. When a Barnes 85g TSX is used there will always be an exit would. Nosler Partition 95g or 100g will always leave an exit wound. The Nosler 90g Accubond all almost always leave an exit wound. Knowledge of bullet construction is important. With the right bullet the 243 is deadly only deer sized game and will always leave an exit wound.
Thank you For The video Lads.
But What about the 7x64 brennecke ? basically a european 270 but in 7mm, which should allow for a larger choice of bullet weights and type.
Especially for Jason it might get close to offering him a nice middle road between the 270 recoil and the 7mm family of bullets.
Just a thought. Weidmannsheil From Denmark and Italy!
Ps. Jason, if you have an expert reloading mate in another EU country with whom you stalk from time to time,, can't they simply reload For you, and Just bring The ammo For you when they meet you for a stalk?
They'd naturally need to build up a load For you first, which i realize might complicate matters.
Good call. I'm looking to get one rn. It's more like a 280 (284) but yeah, 120g to 180g. Very versatile. Does pretty much everything.
@@mysterioanonymous3206 hello buddy, yes, exactly, the 7x64 is, as i understand it, very similar to the 280 in a few ways.
The 7x64 provides similar power/powder capacity to the 270, just as the 280, but i think it often has a suited twist rate for heavier bullets too, (i am not sure the 280 has that?).
Finally, being a 7mm, it has a large family of projectiles to chose from, just as the 280 does.
I reckon hunter that likes the 270, would love the 7x64, as long as finding ammo, or having it made, is a realistic proposition, of course.
150grn in 308 does everything anyone would need on the hill. That or 6.5 140 gr or 270 with 150grn. Those choices along with the right bullet well placed will down any deer and can be loaded to have the legs at distance. They are capable of inflicting a larger wound channel than 243.
If I had to pick one it would be the 308. If I could have another it would be the 270.
One major advantage of 6.5CM has is being able to see the strike…low recoil and with high bc bullets, misjudging range is less of an issue than with 308.
Thanks Paul for your comment.
No mention of the mighty 7mm08 recall like a 243 hits harder than the 308 down range with better BC, factory ammo choice is poor tho reloading is the way i use barnes ttsx 120grn 👍
The 7mm family is very uncommon in the UK.
7mm-08 would make great choice
Best all rounder in my opinion.
maybe it doesn't sound fancy enough lol
Personal choice is one thing we all have our options when it’s your money your spending that’s a different matter.
Looking at some of the videos that one of your guests has up he will use what he is given and kill deer and promote the caliber and ammo along with choice of optics and binos take the element out of it and spend your own money the caliber might not change but but everything else could
steyrman2 yep that’s why the discussion was about caliber and not rifles/ optics.
The 270W is a proven caliber, in Oz .277( case must be 50mm min) is the minimum deer cal. for reds/sambar/rusa/chittal, hog deer 243 min.
I have shot my share of donkeys with a 270, always impressed by hitting power and penetration(high BC) with 130-150 grn proj.
My only criticism of the 270W is the noise, recoil is mild, with 100-110 grn proj. very flat shooting.
Thanks for your input Bruce. A moderator sorts out the noise issue (and some recoil) provided you are allowed to use one.
Give a 25-06 & 257 Wby Mag a try.
You cant handload ammo in IE??
Not legally at least!
My absolute favourite is .300 Win Mag with a muzzle brake. Light to carry, very comfortable recoil and almost zero muzzle flip with the brake on.
Also really like .25-06 which seems to hit like a .270 but kick like a .243!
I had a .308 previously but I do agree about the bullet drop being that little bit more at range than the faster cartridges.
308 all day. Seen lots of animals walk away with the 270. Bullet choice is a major with the 270. We shoot between 159-200 deer per year 270 would be the last caliber I’d choose.
They haven't been shot in the right place then. The same would happen with any calibre if the shot placement was incorrect. Including .308. That's from someone who shoots .308 and doesn't own a .270.
Unfortunately you are mistaking caliber for cartridge.
Interesting point Paul, perhaps you'd like to write a piece on it for the County Deer Stalking website?
What about the 6.5 Creedmoor? Becoming a very popular calibre is it not.
Hi Elfin, agreed. Personally, if I was purchasing a new rifle today, I think that might be the one I'd go for.
@@peterjones4442 depends where you are. 6.5x55SE is better imo but again, ammo availability can be quite the issue depending on the location, esp. when you also travel for hunting.
@@mysterioanonymous3206 6.5x55 SE is indeed a popular choice, and has been a favourite of many hunters for a very long time. Always consider the type of game that you are shooting and the topography over which you are doing it. Thanks for watching.
How bout a 30_06
Its undoubtedly one of the all time greats. In fact, I believe the .270 is simply a necked down 30-06. Thanks for watching
308
Is a. 270 good for roe? What is the best all round rifle for reds to muntjac?
......the .270!
But don’t use light bullets
270 is great.
I also like 6.5x57 , 7x57 and 7x64.
for a light rifle, a 6.5x54MS is pleasant
@@adamchristo3082 Exactly my choice. My Mannlicher Schönauer in 6,5x54MS is from my Grandfather. I do all of mey roedeer hunting with this old rifle. The 7x64 is my perfect choice for chamois, reddeer and wildboar. The 6,5x57 is maybe the perfect roedeer calibre and the 7x57 is a beautiful, phantastic calibre and rifle for just everything. You just hit my point.
Jason saying that he would take .243 over 6.5x55😂 with factory ammo,is that a joke?
I use 6.5x55 with 140 grain sst’s for all my hill stalking ballistic turret, no issue.
.243 won’t even stabilise 100 grain ammo most of the time. It’s a fox calibre. Great show a d don’t mean to be rude, but seriously.
Provokes some strong debate doesn't it! Thanks for watching.
@@peterjones4442 sorry I guess I’m a passionate advocate of my chosen calibre. Love the swede.
@@buckrussel3808 it's undoubtedly one of the all time greats.
@@peterjones4442 great to hear that. Again, apologies if I seem a little heated. Great show . Appreciate the reply’s.
Just handload 6.5x55 and you get something thats even better than 308 and with less recoil
7mm-08, anybody?
7mm-08 is probably one of, if not THE top round to use for a lightweight deer rifle, no doubt. Superior ballistics for same bullet weight than the .308. Problem is in this situation you're talking the Highlands where it's usually pretty windy and you're talking distances longer than normal. Heavier grained, higher BC bullets do better for bucking the wind. In 7mm the 175 grain bullet would buck the wind really well, but not sure you'd get the kind of power behind it you'd need to reach out 300 yards. Don't know the 7mm-08 well enough. Now, in a .280 Remington case you're talking primo windy bullet round to reach out with some authority.
@@robp.2163 good reasoning. Thanks
@@robp.2163 You guys must be Americans... 7x57 is the European ballistic twin to 7-08, as the 7x64 is to the 280/284. That's what a lot of guys say here, you know, same same but different.
.270 or .3006
Both, but the 30-06 will give you that slight edge if you want to inculde larger plains game.
Used 270 for 25 yrs 130gr, the best
I ain't myself,if i ain't out and about,killin and barbecuin.....
"It ain't the arrow it's the Indian". It's all about shot placement.
Synthetic stock looks horribly out of place on the Hill.
It ain't the arrows, it's the Indian.
The art is Stalking !
You’ll only understand that when you can get into 30 yards of a Deer 🦌 with a Bow.
This is the best way to Hunt !
One can hunt this way in the US, Canada, New Zealand etc
and many successfully hunt this way.
Personally, I think hunting with a scoped rifle is far to easy.