Glad to see some backlash towards many questionable decisions made by PD and Sony. Really hoping that the backlash becomes big enough to change their minds....
Thanks for calling this out. An additional factor is that they aren’t issuing refunds for gamers that pre-ordered and are fed up by the events of last week. I currently own every U.S. mainline GT game (as well as Sport and GT5 Prologue) but in 25 years as a PlayStation player GT7 was the first game that ever caused me to ask Sony for a refund. After spending 2 days communicating with multiple frontline customer service representatives (Mariana, Shay, Lance and Liam), one of whom told me me that I would be able to get a refund if I called back when their system was up. That’s right, the Monday after the GT7 servers were down, their customer service system was down (which also led to multiple disconnects and hours of wasted phone time). When I finally talked to one of their supervisors (Josh) I was told that Sony had setup a system where no one could be issued a refund for GT7 if that refund was purely based on the issues introduced to the game by the updates or outage. I was told only Sony could decide whether a game had issues that warranted a refund - all other refunds were governed by their extremely restrictive ToS. This was a shock as most retailers I deal with allow customers to TELL them when there’s an issue with the product and get a refund. I e-mailed their legal department about this anti-consumer practice (which may California’s civil code in relation to violations on limitations for refunds and warranties). So far I have not heard back. It might take legislation to curb this bad behavior by game companies.
@@dankswank9088 Thanks. Unfortunately today’s apology letter from Sony doesn’t address refunds, always online requirements or false advertising on the PSN listing (where the U.S. listing says an online connection is “optional”). I’m glad they are doing something but they haven’t said anything about some of the biggest issues.
It made us scared in the beginning as well, but if anything, this backlash will likely force Nacon to walk back any plans they may have had for DRM. Remember that when the Xbox One was revealed to have always online DRM, Sony quickly scrapped their plans for similar requirements, saving the PS4 from the same issue. Considering the competition, Solar Crown needs every advantage it can get, and what's happening with GT7 should make it abundantly clear to Nacon that the next TDU cannot have any needless online requirements.
It should have been completely offline minus obtaining community created liveries from the off. I personally never owned a Xbox,but I kinda tolerated it on sport(online only) thinking it was a one-time charge or experiment. But again games like GTA v have proven to some that some people will be loyal despite the aggregious flaws
That's a great point about GTA; people give these iconic companies that "can do no wrong" way more slack than they deserve. From Bethesda's bug-riddled releases to Activision's push for micropayments, too many people have made excuses for these companies for far too long.
@@dankswank9088 like i have played gta v from like 2015-2020 and rockstar is well noted in patching things like car dupes to allow players to obtain cash quick by selling the dupe,keeping missions that are fun;their payouts low versus god mode glitches and mandating activities players have to do to make substaintial "Legal" money in public lobbies and not in solo or private ones which permits other players to destroy the goods others are selling.not to mention the inflating prices of vehicles and other paywalls. as a prime example when the first heists launched in like 2016 there was a way to house an armored mitsu evo x in an apt adjacent to where you pick up the bikes the game wants you to use to escape the cops on the pacific standard robbery.a player could through the game could enter the apt,access the evo x and pick up the other players and take them to the drop off point with little to no fear of the cops shooting them and loosing cash.the other aspect of that was the heist host would at a pre determined point at the end exit the game and if done right keep the setups and swap out for another host and then next go get paid.only issue is that it required 4 players to actually play.you could find randoms to fill in but competency would always be an unknown.i think in 2019/2020 rockstar patched the evo x method.granted there are better ways of making cash and better returns later incorporated with the cayo heist. IMO game publishers and on the corporate side seem to have forgotten that a product can make or break a company.it's the players who buy and play the game,loyalty is earned.if i had the bankroll Gran Turismo 7 would be under serious threat. the thing is after 25 years which is an extraordinary feat,it has built up a well deserved loyalty and legacy,i am a fan and have played every one except the rare ones and prologues,i'm also a die hard car guy and i can see where things lack and while there would be micro transactions,it wouldn't be emphasized as the only option.i would design the game that the actual physical or digital purchase would be the main way my company would break even on the project.now granted it would put enormous pressure on me which i can imagine kaz still feels somewhat.I have a feeling that kaz will make attempts to salvage this legacy but to the point of everyone,it wouldn't have been required if kaz had stuck to his guns.this reminds me of a book i read by Bob Lutz "car guys vs bean counters" and it accurately sums up the corporate world
Yeah forza horizon is just like that. Basically evreything is offline except downloading custom designs online. I dont mind hoping online for a min to browse custom liveries etc. Then going back to offline. 👍
@@coreymckee4844 that sort of internet requirement makes more sense; it’s pretty hard to get user generated content from South Korea if you’re sitting in Iowa 😆
@@cyberneticxylem9614 Mods for Assetto Corsa are legitimately transformative. In fact, someone has already created a Hong Kong Island map a year ahead of TDU Solar Crown in Assetto Corsa!!!
Any game that requires internet connection for 95% of the game should be F2P!! PERIOD!! i WILL NEVER pay for anything that requires constant internet access to use. There is no value there!! Ill stick to Forza Horizon. and my copies of Motorsport 5/6. Those games aged like fine wine and DONT require internet connections!👌👌 Also, i think you meant MG Survive. Not Ground Zero.
Survive would certainly fit better into the "forced online requirement" category, but the comment was meant more along the lines of paying full-game money for what is essentially a game demo, hence Ground Zeroes.
@@dankswank9088 yeah thats also understandable. Though they eventually released a definitive edition of MGSV with both the main game and GZ on disk. Unfortunately i doubt sony will go as far as a full on re release with full offline support etc. But i hope im wrong.
Gran Turismo players should boycott the game for a full week. Polyphony and Sony will lose millions. You will see an immediate change to their business practice.
@@jazztrumpet-8246 that would be a good way of sending a message, though we think that skipping the game altogether and loudly voicing contempt for these business practices would be more effective
Great video. This type.of thing makes me sick.. was wondering if you did a vidoe about Fifa22 and that same drm and pay to win model in ultimate team! I live in Belgium where the fifa store has been banned as gambling. So trying to play the game now, is an uphill climb. With players in 90% of other lands able to pay to win. Not to mention the lack luster pack percentages, and untradeable cards.. not to forget tekken 7, dlc characters are broken and are pay to win, unbalanced and total tanks... what is going on with gaming in 2020? Is this hyper capitalism? Or just bad business practices?? Edit... I bought the 90euro Gt7 via the psn store, and after the 30h downtime and that new patch nerfing the rewards, I uninstalled gt7, and have not looked back yet.. It won't be coming back unitll it's what was originally advertised...
We haven’t done a video on FIFA 22 for a few reasons, namely that it’s not really in our wheelhouse so to speak and it’s a game, nay a franchise, whose predatory monetization has been covered so thoroughly by other channels over the years that we really wouldn’t have anything novel to contribute. As for whether it’s hyper capitalism or bad business practices, we’d say it’s both since one is typically the product of the other; EA knows that they can milk their audience for cash, so they do so in the most ruthlessly efficient way possible, with no care for the morality of the decision. It’s a shame the psn store doesn’t usually accept refunds because you definitely deserve one for Gran Turismo 7 after a 30-hour update made the game unplayable before ruining it.
@@dankswank9088 indeed. Preach. It's so inadequate that I still haven't re-installed the game to claim the bonus... I'll wait till they patch selling cars in the game.. if that ever comes..
Glad to see some backlash towards many questionable decisions made by PD and Sony. Really hoping that the backlash becomes big enough to change their minds....
It's currently sitting at a 1.6 after almost 8000 user ratings on Metacritic; If this isn't enough, we don't know what is!
Dank Swank called out GT7 for being always online before it was cool
Some of the largest fires in history began from a small spark 😂👏🏾. Well said.
Remember when all the Reddit shit heads were slagging us off for calling it out. Probably eating their words now.
Thanks for calling this out. An additional factor is that they aren’t issuing refunds for gamers that pre-ordered and are fed up by the events of last week.
I currently own every U.S. mainline GT game (as well as Sport and GT5 Prologue) but in 25 years as a PlayStation player GT7 was the first game that ever caused me to ask Sony for a refund. After spending 2 days communicating with multiple frontline customer service representatives (Mariana, Shay, Lance and Liam), one of whom told me me that I would be able to get a refund if I called back when their system was up. That’s right, the Monday after the GT7 servers were down, their customer service system was down (which also led to multiple disconnects and hours of wasted phone time).
When I finally talked to one of their supervisors (Josh) I was told that Sony had setup a system where no one could be issued a refund for GT7 if that refund was purely based on the issues introduced to the game by the updates or outage. I was told only Sony could decide whether a game had issues that warranted a refund - all other refunds were governed by their extremely restrictive ToS.
This was a shock as most retailers I deal with allow customers to TELL them when there’s an issue with the product and get a refund. I e-mailed their legal department about this anti-consumer practice (which may California’s civil code in relation to violations on limitations for refunds and warranties). So far I have not heard back.
It might take legislation to curb this bad behavior by game companies.
Looking forward to an update
@@dankswank9088 Thanks. Unfortunately today’s apology letter from Sony doesn’t address refunds, always online requirements or false advertising on the PSN listing (where the U.S. listing says an online connection is “optional”). I’m glad they are doing something but they haven’t said anything about some of the biggest issues.
@@perlichtman1562 it seams like their just trying to use corporate apologia to ride this out without having to change anything.
@@dankswank9088 Exactly.
This makes me scared for Test Drive Unlimited Solar Crown.
It made us scared in the beginning as well, but if anything, this backlash will likely force Nacon to walk back any plans they may have had for DRM. Remember that when the Xbox One was revealed to have always online DRM, Sony quickly scrapped their plans for similar requirements, saving the PS4 from the same issue. Considering the competition, Solar Crown needs every advantage it can get, and what's happening with GT7 should make it abundantly clear to Nacon that the next TDU cannot have any needless online requirements.
@@dankswank9088 Hopefully you're right. At least more gamers are waking up to a problem we racing fans has been facing for almost a decade now.
@@krocialblack That's one silver lining on this cloud, if nothing else
Remember when NFS 2015 was always online?!? Yep EA/Ghost learned that lesson with payback and heat
That they did
It should have been completely offline minus obtaining community created liveries from the off.
I personally never owned a Xbox,but I kinda tolerated it on sport(online only) thinking it was a one-time charge or experiment.
But again games like GTA v have proven to some that some people will be loyal despite the aggregious flaws
That's a great point about GTA; people give these iconic companies that "can do no wrong" way more slack than they deserve. From Bethesda's bug-riddled releases to Activision's push for micropayments, too many people have made excuses for these companies for far too long.
@@dankswank9088 like i have played gta v from like 2015-2020 and rockstar is well noted in patching things like car dupes to allow players to obtain cash quick by selling the dupe,keeping missions that are fun;their payouts low versus god mode glitches and mandating activities players have to do to make substaintial "Legal" money in public lobbies and not in solo or private ones which permits other players to destroy the goods others are selling.not to mention the inflating prices of vehicles and other paywalls.
as a prime example when the first heists launched in like 2016 there was a way to house an armored mitsu evo x in an apt adjacent to where you pick up the bikes the game wants you to use to escape the cops on the pacific standard robbery.a player could through the game could enter the apt,access the evo x and pick up the other players and take them to the drop off point with little to no fear of the cops shooting them and loosing cash.the other aspect of that was the heist host would at a pre determined point at the end exit the game and if done right keep the setups and swap out for another host and then next go get paid.only issue is that it required 4 players to actually play.you could find randoms to fill in but competency would always be an unknown.i think in 2019/2020 rockstar patched the evo x method.granted there are better ways of making cash and better returns later incorporated with the cayo heist.
IMO game publishers and on the corporate side seem to have forgotten that a product can make or break a company.it's the players who buy and play the game,loyalty is earned.if i had the bankroll Gran Turismo 7 would be under serious threat.
the thing is after 25 years which is an extraordinary feat,it has built up a well deserved loyalty and legacy,i am a fan and have played every one except the rare ones and prologues,i'm also a die hard car guy and i can see where things lack and while there would be micro transactions,it wouldn't be emphasized as the only option.i would design the game that the actual physical or digital purchase would be the main way my company would break even on the project.now granted it would put enormous pressure on me which i can imagine kaz still feels somewhat.I have a feeling that kaz will make attempts to salvage this legacy but to the point of everyone,it wouldn't have been required if kaz had stuck to his guns.this reminds me of a book i read by Bob Lutz "car guys vs bean counters" and it accurately sums up the corporate world
Yeah forza horizon is just like that. Basically evreything is offline except downloading custom designs online. I dont mind hoping online for a min to browse custom liveries etc. Then going back to offline. 👍
@@Desert_Rogue_Tanker “car guys vs bean counters” also sums up the GT7 backlash pretty well tbh lol
@@coreymckee4844 that sort of internet requirement makes more sense; it’s pretty hard to get user generated content from South Korea if you’re sitting in Iowa 😆
Nicely done video!
Have a nice time gaming!
Thank you we'll try!
I'm kinda glad I went with Assetto Corsa for 10 bucks. INCLUDING THE DLC MIND YOU.
Not a bad choice at all
@@dankswank9088 Judging by what others have told me, I'm better off upgrading my pc some more and downloading community mods.
@@cyberneticxylem9614 Mods for Assetto Corsa are legitimately transformative. In fact, someone has already created a Hong Kong Island map a year ahead of TDU Solar Crown in Assetto Corsa!!!
@@dankswank9088 So you're telling me that Assetto Corsa, a game from 2014(?) is basically digitally modular? Like due to mods, the sky is the limit?
@@cyberneticxylem9614 I mean, from what little I've seen, it seems pretty malleable (at leas on PC)
I wish they can be sued for this, I mean the way this was implemented was so so wrong
Some people have speculated about a lawsuit based upon false advertising and bait & switch laws
Any game that requires internet connection for 95% of the game should be F2P!! PERIOD!! i WILL NEVER pay for anything that requires constant internet access to use. There is no value there!! Ill stick to Forza Horizon. and my copies of Motorsport 5/6. Those games aged like fine wine and DONT require internet connections!👌👌
Also, i think you meant MG Survive. Not Ground Zero.
Survive would certainly fit better into the "forced online requirement" category, but the comment was meant more along the lines of paying full-game money for what is essentially a game demo, hence Ground Zeroes.
@@dankswank9088 yeah thats also understandable. Though they eventually released a definitive edition of MGSV with both the main game and GZ on disk. Unfortunately i doubt sony will go as far as a full on re release with full offline support etc. But i hope im wrong.
@@coreymckee4844 we can dream
Forza 7 doesn't either.
Gran Turismo players should boycott the game for a full week. Polyphony and Sony will lose millions. You will see an immediate change to their business practice.
What exactly do you mean by “boycott the game for a full week”?
@@dankswank9088 don’t play it at all.
@@jazztrumpet-8246 that would be a good way of sending a message, though we think that skipping the game altogether and loudly voicing contempt for these business practices would be more effective
@@dankswank9088 you are absolutely correct. I definitely skipped the game.
@@jazztrumpet-8246 That's great to hear! Thank you for doing your part!
Great video. This type.of thing makes me sick.. was wondering if you did a vidoe about Fifa22 and that same drm and pay to win model in ultimate team! I live in Belgium where the fifa store has been banned as gambling. So trying to play the game now, is an uphill climb. With players in 90% of other lands able to pay to win. Not to mention the lack luster pack percentages, and untradeable cards.. not to forget tekken 7, dlc characters are broken and are pay to win, unbalanced and total tanks... what is going on with gaming in 2020? Is this hyper capitalism? Or just bad business practices??
Edit... I bought the 90euro Gt7 via the psn store, and after the 30h downtime and that new patch nerfing the rewards, I uninstalled gt7, and have not looked back yet.. It won't be coming back unitll it's what was originally advertised...
We haven’t done a video on FIFA 22 for a few reasons, namely that it’s not really in our wheelhouse so to speak and it’s a game, nay a franchise, whose predatory monetization has been covered so thoroughly by other channels over the years that we really wouldn’t have anything novel to contribute. As for whether it’s hyper capitalism or bad business practices, we’d say it’s both since one is typically the product of the other; EA knows that they can milk their audience for cash, so they do so in the most ruthlessly efficient way possible, with no care for the morality of the decision. It’s a shame the psn store doesn’t usually accept refunds because you definitely deserve one for Gran Turismo 7 after a 30-hour update made the game unplayable before ruining it.
@@dankswank9088 appreciate the reply. I've subscribed to the channel and look forward to more gt7 news. Keep it up. 😉
@@Hugosterk We might have to pump out a quick video today or tomorrow just to talk about how inadequate this apology is
@@dankswank9088 indeed. Preach. It's so inadequate that I still haven't re-installed the game to claim the bonus... I'll wait till they patch selling cars in the game.. if that ever comes..
Gt dead March 22 greed kills
It certainly does; we can only hope Sony hears the message loud and clear
@@dankswank9088 I dont know greed make you deaf and dumb