2005 5.9 3500 Here with 280k I absolutely love this truck and will keep her till the end. Rebuilt the tranny after towing heavy loads daily for the first 165k. Other than that it has been normal maintenance and that is it. I am still on origional injectors. Truck still has day one power.
For the most part, the Common Rail 5.9 Cummins is a really reliable platform. If you don’t keep up with the fuel filters to make sure the sensitive injection system never gets damaged and if you don’t change the oil often to make sure the oil doesn’t get dirty and hurt the lubrication, they will die. Keep up with the maintenance and they’ll last just as long as a 12 valve engine.
I got my 04 at 45k. I was getting 15 MPG, which I thought was kind of low, so I looked it up and found out that an injector going bad will mess with your mileage. I took it to my brother's dodge guy (who he's known for 4-5 years), did an injector test, and found that injector 6 was firing at 88%. Got it replaced (didn't help the mileage though), and I am now at 61k, and I'm glad I caught it, cause it could have done some serious damage if I left it. I have plans of getting a 2 micron filter system very soon.
Thanks PGFuelInjection for the thoughtful video! It's a good one. Hate to see the comment section so riddled with mis-informed/ridiculous comments. But some of us get your point! 👍
I have a 2003 Dodge Ram 2500 HD with a 5.7 Cummins Turbo in it with over 1 million miles on it. It was used to haul cattle and do plowing and still does. It still has the original engine without any repairs done to it, and it still runs perfectly fine
I've rebuilt a many that get that lil skip and hesitate to crank...To me, that's the sound of hundred dollar bills...haha... But, seriously, if you take your ISB 325 somewhere to get rebuilt and they don't recommend checking/replacing the injectors as one of the "extra" things you need to do, take it somewhere else, cause they don't have enough experience working on those engines
Sorry, Aaron McGraw I am unable to reply directly to you. I would recommend installing the filter between the stock unit and the high pressure fuel pump as there is a rubber house in this location that makes things easier. Obviously you will need a bracket or other means of mounting the filter assembly and then just two lengths of house to tee into the supply line. There are many kits you can find online to get an idea. Now if you are running any type of performance produces on your truck, suck as a tuner, you will want to look at a FASS system to keep up with the demand while also offering the 3 micron filtration in one unit.
I'm really glad I have a 1st gen 12v. Damn near 25 years old, over 200k miles and has no blow by. Might be slow as piss compared to the newer models but I'll take it over one of those any day.
Weedman777 Sorry about the delay in my response. The engine in the video is a ISB 325 and only shares the name and displacement with your engine. What year is your 12 valve Cummins? Some of the older truck may have smoked a small amount. The generation in this video would not have met emissions in 2006 if it did smoke.
+dkhill27 that's due to the lag between the AFC and boost pressure ... once a 12 valve builds boost 3-5psi .. it should begin to.clear up quickly .. If not.u may.need to.have your AFC unit tuned or possibly a Injection pump retimed as they sometimes slip timing
+PGFuelInjection My Dad owned a 2005 Cummins 5.9L 325hp that never developed this issue, but it still would blow a puff of smoke on acceleration then clear up after the turbo spooled. Never did have any problems with it.
+Brian Robertson Black smoke can be the symptom of several issues. This video only addresses one of these. In response to the "black smoke is normal" crowd, remember this vehicle would never have been able to pass EPA testing in 2006 with more than a slight haze of smoke. Again depending on the mileage, your fathers truck may just be showing normal wear with age.
5 and 6 are the most common cylinders to have issues with because of the heat they deal with constantly and the poor coolant flow to the back section of the cylinders thats why if you have a Cummins of any sort, you should get the coolant bypass kit with the thermostat in it, I know fleece makes one with a thermostat in it. it will equalize the coolant flow to number 5 and 6 cylinders
Black smoke is an inbalance in the fuel to air ratio. It’s basically just more fuel being put in than there should be air coming in if that makes sense. It’s definitely harder on parts in the long run but doesn’t mean they’re failing necessarily.
I'm saying this first hand because it happened to my truck, and your right it was #6 that failed. Happened on the highway, didn't notice until it came down to an idle. By this time the whole crankcase was full of diesel. Luckily it was still under warranty as the bill came to just over 15K rebore, sleeve, new injectors and turbo. These injectors have about 100 000km on them and now I have a code #3 cyl. open injector circuit. Not too impressed with cummins injectors anymore...
My guy, Dealership, described the sequence of events a bit different. The later year 5.9's had a lot of compression ring failures but not because of over fueling. The over fueling occurs because the compression ring fails and the there is a loss of back pressure in the cylinder.
I see his point. When compression is lost in a cylinder the ECM will see a loss of output and increase fuel to that cylinder in an attempt to balance the engine. This only happens at idle though so once off idle, all injector receive the same pulse width. As I state in the video we bench test the injectors out of the engine and find them to be over fueling greatly and usually the worst is cylinders 1 or 6 which have the highest rate of failure. This imbalance can be very damaging to the engine as one cylinder receives more fuel then the others when the truck is underload. The piston ring failure could only cause an injector to over fuel if it physically contacted the injector nozzle and damage it. It really is the chicken and the egg question. To be 100% honest, I am a technician and not an engineer. These are the events that unfold in our shop and the connection we see between the failure and injector wear. I hope this clarified things.
buckles resulting in a lack of clamping pressure on the air filter gasget. I have heard this series engine lasting over 275K and destroying the #6 cylinder at only 75k with proper maintenance. Wonder how much the OE air box contribute to premature engine failure. Hopefully it is not too late for your engine hopefully this was helpful.
I agree with you that having a clean fuel system is very important, especially in a common rail system. However, I don't believe the piston you used in your example was damaged by the over fueling injector. The ring broke and damaged the injector. The blow-by is due to the broke ring. The broke ring was probably due to improper air intake system maintenance allowing dirt intrusion into the engine.
You are correct, in saying that the failure shown in the video could cause damage to the injector nozzle. However, this is not the case and not what is being talked about here. From our observations there was no damage to the injector nozzle and the spray patterns were good. Also the fact that the injector in #6 cylinder is most common to over fuel on engines that have not yet had a ring failure. This tied with the fact that it happens on 325 hp engines with the unique piston design. Yes, dusting of the engine can cause blow by as well but again this is no the case in this example. When the amount of fuel delivered to each cylinder varies it creates excessive heat and stress in the over fueled cylinder. You do not feel this imbalance at idle due to the ECM balancing pulse width. At higher RPMs it cannot be felt as much either. I hope this clears up the purpose of this video. Sorry, if I missed the obvious and did not state in the video that ring failure/cylinder wall damage was the cause of the blow by.
I have a 2004 common rail cummins runs great it has a haze of smoke at idle not much at all still get good mpg with 142,000 miles on it no loss of power just a small puff of black smoke just curious if im having a big problem?
Did a trip from Prince Rupert to PG in my 05. My oil cap never did a dance when I left. But when I returned. I checked it in terrace and it has started to do the little dance now and I guess there’s a crank case breather? Maybe also known as a blow by tube and there’s a lot of smoke coming out from that. And overall it just sounds different. I’m going to try and valve lash it see if my exhaust and intake is where it should be. If nothing changes. What filtration do you recommend? Cause the truck is all bone stock and the injectors were replaced.
@@PGFuelInjection okay. I was looking at the Cat fuel filter kit. Listening to your video. I do not have black smoke to my knowledge when passing someone or punching it. Do you think doing the under hood conversion kit would fix my situation? Cheers
@@gjeTV At this point I don't believe added filtration will fix your issue. If there isn't a compression issue you might have a restricted crankcase breather.
Can you tell this by balance rates? Is it only relavant by negative balance rates as the ECM is trying to pull fuel from that injector. What are considered OK or drivable balance rates?
This engine actually just has a cat, the Common Rail injection, and an in cylinder EGR but it can still blow it. Straight pipe it and advance the timing and you'll have yourself a good, reliable, powerful truck.
Emissions emissions emissions, are also one of the reason we have unbelievable hp and tq numbers. HP & TQ happen to be a direct byproduct of manufactures having to create an engine that uses every drop of fuel to the best of its ability.
Wrong. Diesels were already the most efficient ICE and already got the most out of every drop. All emissions equipment is good for is making less miles per gallon and putting trucks in the repair shop.
@@markrich3271 pfff lol nope 6.4 Powerstroke would inject diesel during the exhaust stroke for Regen mode to clean out the exhaust and was a big cause of many 6.4 Failures such as Fuel Dilution in Oil Burnt Valves Melted Pistons Blowtorch exhaust Damaged Bank Accounts for Repairs
For whatever it is worth on the subject mater. I made a startling discovery of a fine dust in the the hot side turbo to intercooler ducting on my 2006. I traced it to a leak on the POS OE air box next to the battety side where there are no
I know a 2000 5.9 cummins that is for sale with only 40.xxxmiles. It's an ex militairy vehicle. Are there ways or tricks (like the pressure from the oil filler cap) to be as sure as possible that i'ts an healty engine. It's more then 1000km away so i would really have to be sure. I already bought a landcruiser that swallowed it's turbo blades so i'm not really in to rebuilding another engine.
I was told that injectors can not be tested in truck because the mechanical portion of the injector may not be operating as the electronic signal would suggest when scanning pulse. I'm no expert, this is just what i've heard.
There definitely are limitations to diagnosing an injector in the vehicle, especially with the OEM scan tool. The return flow test is also very useful if done properly. We test the injector pulse width with an oscilloscope to see the corrections the ECM is making to each cylinder to balance the engine. This gives us an idea of possible injector delivery issues. The short falls of most in vehicle tests on the 5.9L Cummins, is that they are performed at idle and my miss an issue at another operation condition. While bench testing injectors does give a better over all picture, it does not guarantee to the longevity of the injector. A good way of looking at any test is that a fail proves the part is faulty but a pass does not always mean the part is good.
that's what must have happened to mine, 13,000$ later, good as gold. but I learned a few things your video your from PG eh, nice im from the coast, what do you think (if any) of Vulcan performance filter systems? I bought one with a 2 micron cat filter, haven't used it yet, not sure if the cat filter needs a o ring or not so I haven't out it in
A good quality filter is key. A 2 micron Donaldson or CAT filter would be a good choice but stay away from will fit filters. Some aftermarket filter companies make one filter to replace multiple micron ratings and may not be adequate.
a little puff is normal in my eyes only when you punch it tho and im talking a very very small amount, if you cant see through it then yes problem haha
Isn't this mostly just because of how the owner takes care of it overtime? I want to get an 07 5.9. I have an 01 5.9 V8 but I'd like to have something more recent also. Would like to get a single cab, definitely gonna keep my 2nd gen. I love it. Also I'm sure Lucas additive would have prevented this from happening, keeps my 2nd gen clean and running strong. I put it in my tank twice a year.
lost compression cylinder #1. about how much would it cost to fix? is total rebuild needed? truck has no blow by out of the lol cap. still runs drives good. just rough idle on start up.
If you have verified that there is low compression on #1 cylinder with a compression test and you have no blow by then your issue could very well be valvetrain related. Without seeing the vehicle I cannot quote on a cost of repair.
I'm new to the diesle scene but I bought a 2005 ram with 5.9 cummins (I love the name Cummins ) and when I learned about blow by I checked my motor running I pull the cap off and I see white smoke but my cap does not bounce around like that. I also noticed from the vent tube I see white smoke but only when warming up. Is this going to get worse?
Without seeing your truck, it's hard to say. From your description, it does not sound too severe but it might be a good idea to get it checked out. There could be an issue that has lead to a slight amount of blow by like dust by passing the air filter.
So whats all the parts you need to fix it? Because we had an 05 that started having problems like cutting off when driving i just wanna make sure when i get my 06 to fix it fast as possible
+Tristan Whiting Filtration is a good starting point. Besides that it all depends if you have an issue. Getting your truck tested for cylinder balance would help narrow things down.
Hi, I have a 2007 5.9 liter Dodge with 37000 miles on it. I've changed the oil and fuel filter on it a couple of times. Do I need to worry about this fuel filtration system on my mode? any thoughts would be helpful. ALSO, when you say "micron filtration system" where is this system located? Are you speaking of the fuel filter or what?
Yes he is talking about the fuel filter. Filters are measured by microns in their filtration determining how big of particles are allowed through the filter. The stock fuel filter only filters down to 7 microns whereas an Air Dog or FASS lift pump filter down to 2 or 3 microns.
Also as for your model engine it is the same as the one shown. You should still install a lift pump such as FASS or Air Dog or an inline fuel filter such as a CAT inline fuel filter
I have an 07 that exibits the same issues. low compression in #6. I notices exhaust coming out the fuel filter drain which puzzles me. Any explanation why this would occur? Thanks.
I have an 06 5.9 Cummins. I have a similar symptom were it overfuels. But my engine is still healthy. What should I do to prevent further damage. Truck has 289K miles
Having the vehicle diagnosed for the over fueling issue would be a good idea. Injectors very well could be the cause but other issues with the high pressure fuel system can cause this as well. Also some of the aftermarket stock filters are restrictive from new and cause black smoke within a short period of time.
With a vehicle of this age you may experience some smoke from warn parts such as injectors. Generally these older 12 valve engines were very reliable, though if worked hard with high mileage injectors, they can fail as well. This was more common in the industrial engines of that era than the Dodge trucks but I would recommend replacing injectors if they are original.
The majority of the time, the customer comes in for a rough start with some exhaust smoke first thing in the morning. No codes or check engine lights. At this point one cylinder has little to no compression (0-100 psi) the damage is already done. Out of 50+ cases, I believe one might have a P030# code but the rest did not.
I've just stated getting a weird stutter on start up on temps under 0°c I'm guessing a should get this checked out. I have no blow by and no loss of power
I appreciate the time you took to make this video, but this truck had over 300,000 miles on it. Even as a 2004 (the earliest year for the 325 HP variant) that comes out to over 30000 miles a year. That is an extreme amount of driving in a short time period. This truck was abused. I would bet against regular air filter, fuel filter and oil filter changes performed on this truck as well. Not many diesel owners understand the importance of regular fuel filter changes. I agree that the 7 micron filter is a joke, but if you change it at least every other oil change, you are decreasing your odds of extreme fuel contamination such as this case Thank you for your time
That's your opinion dk. I have to do alot of driving just to put 13000 miles on my truck a year, let alone 25000, which would almost be double what I drive. That is pretty extreme use. There is a reason why NADA and KBB base light depreciation at 12000 miles...just sayin
Sorry, it took so long to reply. You are correct that improper maintenance can lead to this type of failure, especially on a high mileage engine. However, this is a very common issue on this particular model and generally can happen anywhere between 100,000 to 200,000 KM, depending on fuel quality. When the engines we diagnose are torn down, we examine them with a local machine shop and flow test all the injectors. We have had customers putting on over 100,000 KM a year with replace engine failures do to over fueling injectors. By the time they enter our shop they many be on their second or third engine. The cure was to install a primary 2 micron fuel filter and replace the faulty injectors that were the root cause all along. The main problem, is that normal OEM diagnostics will no show this issue until there is a loss of compression in a cylinder.
My truck is consume a fairly large amount of oil, and I have done every conceivable test on my truck, the only thing I havent done is a test like yours, or a compression test. Ive checked coolant for oil, I have done the oil filler cap check, I have checked both the hot and cold side of the turbo for oil, theres no smoke whatsoever, and my truck has no cat on it to catch smoke/oil. It starts perfectly and runs smooth enough to balance a nickle on its side on the valve cover, I've also checked the blowby tube, hot or cold I dont see any smoke. The only oil leak I have is my front crank seal. It will go from full to add in about 800km or so. I'm not sure what to do, at this point and it doesnt seem like the crank seal is leaking bad enough for me to be losing that much oil. If you could offer a suggestion, I would really appreciate it. Thanks
I would expect some amount of blue smoke if you engine was consuming the oil. You can never over look an external leak. It may only leak while driving or at a specific temperature. I would correct the leak first.
+Anthony Daniels Yes, additional filtration would be a good idea. The 250 HP and 305 HP do not develop this issue as they have different pistons and injectors.
You would need to purchase an auxiliary filter assemble as there are no 2 micron filter elements for the stock assemble. A FASS system is one option or a filter kit like we sell which installs a fuel manager into the system.
How much is your filter kit and what is the address and phone number.Thanks PS how often do you change the filter and how much and can they be purchase by you.
James Smith We sell a kit for about $190 CND. Filters are roughly $24. I would recommend replacing both filters every second oil change or 15,000 km. You can contact us here. www.dieselpro.ca/contact-us.html
This problem only occurs in dodge chassis. I've never seen a 04-07 Cummins in a medium duty chassis fail. I'm thinking is the injector dodge uses for this application
Yes, this engine in other on highway applications, uses the early injector with eight holes and a more normal spray pattern. In these years of Dodge pickup trucks the injectors have five hole nozzles with a very steep spray pattern and different piston design. I believe this was done for emissions reasons and why this engine does not have an EGR system as found on the Ford 6.0L and GM Duramax.
are these the Cummins ISB's? i dont think modern day cummins engines are as reliable as the old ones. the 6BT 12V has to be the best engine they have built
If those were stock injectors at 331396 miles then I'm sure the injectors were going out. If the injectors were over fueling then ya you would burn the piston. But there are tale signs when injectors start going bad. Maintenance Maintenance Maintenance.
I don’t understand tho, my 2005 5.9 Cummins doesn’t have any blowby at all! I have 0 codes on ecm, well enough full pressure, with air dog full system and cp3 is good, no black smoke unless I put a smarty tuner on it, turbo was checked good, transmission rebuilt with shift kit really good, and new oem injectors tested good, basically every sensor on the truck replaced, and the truck has very low power especially when it gets up to operating temperature, then causes the transmission to shift weird because the engine and trans work together! No overheating! I just don’t understand someone help me! Do I have maybe low compression in some cylinders and need to be tested? That’s honestly my last even step to figuring out why it’s so slow and no power especially when warmed up? Truck starts up just fine it’s only when going on the gas in drive it had no power at all. Also has 294,000 miles on it my dad did awhile back but 90hp injectors in it and power max tuner right when he bought the truck so idk🤷🏻♂️
Unfortunately, this issue is not common for this truck and would require hands on diagnosis. What is the fuel rail pressure when the issue is occurring? Does it match the desired value? Also what is the boost pressure? When you say the transmission shifts weird do you mean it hangs in a low gear and won't upshift which is common for a low power issue?
@@PGFuelInjection fuel rail pressure is around 26,000 at full throttle my guru show me on his snap on computer and does match the desired yes! The turbo boost pressure maxed out at 32 maybe 34psi of boost, weird shifts like it’ll feel like it shifts up and shifts back down and stutter shifts just not a smooth shift pattern
@@matthewmurdock1897 23,000 psi is the stock rail pressure limit. I assume these reading were taken with a tune in the ECM. That shifting issue is a concern. Generally, a low power issue will only cause the transmission to hang in a gear until you let off the throttle. There may be an input issue causing the shifting problem. Has the valve clearance been checked? Also has the charger cooler been tested for leaks?
@@PGFuelInjection my bad 23,000 then all I know is he showed me it was good where it needs to be, it was a few months ago, and yeah seems like bad power problem! And yes to even go into overdrive and some other gears I have to let off gas. This issue of low power has been increasing over time and getting for over years so idk I gave the truck back to my dad for awhile driving a 95 Nissan hardbody with only 103,000 miles on it I just wanted to ask and see maybe why it’s causing it
Kelcey K the vp44 isn't the best injector pump in terms of reliability but there are ways to make it last. Most vp44 failures have been due to the OE Carter lift pump failing and burning out the rotor in the VP because of no fuel delivery that lubricates the rotor. Install a fass or air dog lift pump with an in cab pressure gauge and the VP is good for a long time
Just a quick question... Are the CP3 pumps affected by this in any way? I just rebuilt my 04 Cummins and had cylinders 1 and 6 look exactly as you shown.
+Jacques De Villiers The CP3 pumps on this engine are quite robust and have a low failure rate. That being said, added filteration will help with longevity.
+TheFordguy72 Running Stanadyne will help prevent asphaltene drop out, lubrication and moisture in the fuel but will not help with the poor filtration of these trucks. The fuel system on a 2015 Dodge 6.7L is very similar to that on this 5.9L but Chrysler effectively have 3 filters on the new trucks.
Can you go to my channel and listen to my truck think it has a bad piston, I really need help its knocking and I had the granny built and they said it wasn't the flex plate, and I have new injectors, please help!
2005 5.9 3500 Here with 280k I absolutely love this truck and will keep her till the end. Rebuilt the tranny after towing heavy loads daily for the first 165k. Other than that it has been normal maintenance and that is it. I am still on origional injectors. Truck still has day one power.
Nice scientific flavored, thoughtful approach to resolving problems, if I had a diesel and a problem I'd trust you to fix it
For the most part, the Common Rail 5.9 Cummins is a really reliable platform. If you don’t keep up with the fuel filters to make sure the sensitive injection system never gets damaged and if you don’t change the oil often to make sure the oil doesn’t get dirty and hurt the lubrication, they will die. Keep up with the maintenance and they’ll last just as long as a 12 valve engine.
I got my 04 at 45k. I was getting 15 MPG, which I thought was kind of low, so I looked it up and found out that an injector going bad will mess with your mileage. I took it to my brother's dodge guy (who he's known for 4-5 years), did an injector test, and found that injector 6 was firing at 88%. Got it replaced (didn't help the mileage though), and I am now at 61k, and I'm glad I caught it, cause it could have done some serious damage if I left it. I have plans of getting a 2 micron filter system very soon.
Thanks PGFuelInjection for the thoughtful video! It's a good one.
Hate to see the comment section so riddled with mis-informed/ridiculous comments.
But some of us get your point! 👍
I have a 2003 Dodge Ram 2500 HD with a 5.7 Cummins Turbo in it with over 1 million miles on it. It was used to haul cattle and do plowing and still does. It still has the original engine without any repairs done to it, and it still runs perfectly fine
That's good to hear. Good maintenance goes a long way. The engine in this video is very different than what is in your 2003 Dodge.
PGFuelInjection sorry, I meant 5.9 Cummins
definitely don't agree with the "black smoke isn't normal" for like 20 years but overall good video, informative
on computer controlled engines it is not normal.
I've rebuilt a many that get that lil skip and hesitate to crank...To me, that's the sound of hundred dollar bills...haha...
But, seriously, if you take your ISB 325 somewhere to get rebuilt and they don't recommend checking/replacing the injectors as one of the "extra" things you need to do, take it somewhere else, cause they don't have enough experience working on those engines
Instablaster.
the first thing I thought was hank hill
Sorry, Aaron McGraw I am unable to reply directly to you. I would recommend installing the filter between the stock unit and the high pressure fuel pump as there is a rubber house in this location that makes things easier. Obviously you will need a bracket or other means of mounting the filter assembly and then just two lengths of house to tee into the supply line. There are many kits you can find online to get an idea. Now if you are running any type of performance produces on your truck, suck as a tuner, you will want to look at a FASS system to keep up with the demand while also offering the 3 micron filtration in one unit.
I'm really glad I have a 1st gen 12v. Damn near 25 years old, over 200k miles and has no blow by. Might be slow as piss compared to the newer models but I'll take it over one of those any day.
LOL no blow by? I bet you get 30 miles per gallon as well!
230K on mine no blow bye
I’ve added a 2 micron gdp kit on mine. Not a guarantee, but I feel it gives you better odds of not loosing an injector.
My 12v has smoked black scince I bought it off the lot it is still going good with 736 000km
Weedman777 Sorry about the delay in my response. The engine in the video is a ISB 325 and only shares the name and displacement with your engine. What year is your 12 valve Cummins? Some of the older truck may have smoked a small amount. The generation in this video would not have met emissions in 2006 if it did smoke.
+Weedman777 Same here my 96 12 valve shoots a puff if you stand on it and then it goes away once the turbo is lit
+dkhill27 that's due to the lag between the AFC and boost pressure ...
once a 12 valve builds boost 3-5psi .. it should begin to.clear up quickly .. If not.u may.need to.have your AFC unit tuned or possibly a Injection pump retimed as they sometimes slip timing
+PGFuelInjection My Dad owned a 2005 Cummins 5.9L 325hp that never developed this issue, but it still would blow a puff of smoke on acceleration then clear up after the turbo spooled. Never did have any problems with it.
+Brian Robertson Black smoke can be the symptom of several issues. This video only addresses one of these. In response to the "black smoke is normal" crowd, remember this vehicle would never have been able to pass EPA testing in 2006 with more than a slight haze of smoke. Again depending on the mileage, your fathers truck may just be showing normal wear with age.
5 and 6 are the most common cylinders to have issues with because of the heat they deal with constantly and the poor coolant flow to the back section of the cylinders thats why if you have a Cummins of any sort, you should get the coolant bypass kit with the thermostat in it, I know fleece makes one with a thermostat in it. it will equalize the coolant flow to number 5 and 6 cylinders
Black smoke is an inbalance in the fuel to air ratio. It’s basically just more fuel being put in than there should be air coming in if that makes sense. It’s definitely harder on parts in the long run but doesn’t mean they’re failing necessarily.
This is true but an imbalance in fuel delivery between cylinders can be very hard on engine components and cause a failure is a short period of time.
air dog or fass will do the trick! it replaces your lift pump and adds more than enough filtration! can't go wrong.
Kenneth Maccourt is that why people add fass pumps to prevent injectors from failing?
I'm saying this first hand because it happened to my truck, and your right it was #6 that failed. Happened on the highway, didn't notice until it came down to an idle. By this time the whole crankcase was full of diesel. Luckily it was still under warranty as the bill came to just over 15K rebore, sleeve, new injectors and turbo.
These injectors have about 100 000km on them and now I have a code #3 cyl. open injector circuit. Not too impressed with cummins injectors anymore...
+evildog1966 15k?!?!
Well that's great to hear, exactly what my 5.9 is doing. Yes its the 2004.5 😞
Gets better. I just that phone call from my mechanic😩 looking for new engine to go in my 3500.
My guy, Dealership, described the sequence of events a bit different. The later year 5.9's had a lot of compression ring failures but not because of over fueling. The over fueling occurs because the compression ring fails and the there is a loss of back pressure in the cylinder.
I see his point. When compression is lost in a cylinder the ECM will see a loss of output and increase fuel to that cylinder in an attempt to balance the engine. This only happens at idle though so once off idle, all injector receive the same pulse width. As I state in the video we bench test the injectors out of the engine and find them to be over fueling greatly and usually the worst is cylinders 1 or 6 which have the highest rate of failure. This imbalance can be very damaging to the engine as one cylinder receives more fuel then the others when the truck is underload. The piston ring failure could only cause an injector to over fuel if it physically contacted the injector nozzle and damage it. It really is the chicken and the egg question.
To be 100% honest, I am a technician and not an engineer. These are the events that unfold in our shop and the connection we see between the failure and injector wear. I hope this clarified things.
doesn't hurt to spray some degreaser lightly and with water nozel hose it down every once in awhile
buckles resulting in a lack of clamping pressure on the air filter gasget. I have heard this series engine lasting over 275K and destroying the #6 cylinder at only 75k with proper maintenance. Wonder how much the OE air box contribute to premature engine failure. Hopefully it is not too late for your engine hopefully this was helpful.
You mentioned that you could bench test injectors still in the engine, is that something I could get done and most Cummins dealers or just you guys?
I agree with you that having a clean fuel system is very important, especially in a common rail system. However, I don't believe the piston you used in your example was damaged by the over fueling injector. The ring broke and damaged the injector. The blow-by is due to the broke ring. The broke ring was probably due to improper air intake system maintenance allowing dirt intrusion into the engine.
You are correct, in saying that the failure shown in the video could cause damage to the injector nozzle. However, this is not the case and not what is being talked about here. From our observations there was no damage to the injector nozzle and the spray patterns were good. Also the fact that the injector in #6 cylinder is most common to over fuel on engines that have not yet had a ring failure. This tied with the fact that it happens on 325 hp engines with the unique piston design.
Yes, dusting of the engine can cause blow by as well but again this is no the case in this example. When the amount of fuel delivered to each cylinder varies it creates excessive heat and stress in the over fueled cylinder. You do not feel this imbalance at idle due to the ECM balancing pulse width. At higher RPMs it cannot be felt as much either. I hope this clears up the purpose of this video.
Sorry, if I missed the obvious and did not state in the video that ring failure/cylinder wall damage was the cause of the blow by.
My 05 5.9 Cummins has 380,000 Kms, runs perfectly.
I have a 2004 common rail cummins runs great it has a haze of smoke at idle not much at all still get good mpg with 142,000 miles on it no loss of power just a small puff of black smoke just curious if im having a big problem?
It would be worth getting it checked out. Smoke at idle is a bit concerning. An imbalance may show up in a cylinder performance test.
Did a trip from Prince Rupert to PG in my 05. My oil cap never did a dance when I left. But when I returned. I checked it in terrace and it has started to do the little dance now and I guess there’s a crank case breather? Maybe also known as a blow by tube and there’s a lot of smoke coming out from that. And overall it just sounds different. I’m going to try and valve lash it see if my exhaust and intake is where it should be. If nothing changes. What filtration do you recommend? Cause the truck is all bone stock and the injectors were replaced.
We generally like to see 4 micron or finer on common rail systems.
@@PGFuelInjection okay. I was looking at the Cat fuel filter kit. Listening to your video. I do not have black smoke to my knowledge when passing someone or punching it. Do you think doing the under hood conversion kit would fix my situation? Cheers
@@gjeTV At this point I don't believe added filtration will fix your issue. If there isn't a compression issue you might have a restricted crankcase breather.
Thank for the diagnostic test tips, what resistance are you looking for when bench testing the injectors?
Generally around 0.320 ohms
Can you tell this by balance rates? Is it only relavant by negative balance rates as the ECM is trying to pull fuel from that injector. What are considered OK or drivable balance rates?
Emissions emissions emissions, this blew up, that failed, this failed, all due to emissions god dammit
This engine actually just has a cat, the Common Rail injection, and an in cylinder EGR but it can still blow it. Straight pipe it and advance the timing and you'll have yourself a good, reliable, powerful truck.
Emissions emissions emissions, are also one of the reason we have unbelievable hp and tq numbers. HP & TQ happen to be a direct byproduct of manufactures having to create an engine that uses every drop of fuel to the best of its ability.
Wrong. Diesels were already the most efficient ICE and already got the most out of every drop. All emissions equipment is good for is making less miles per gallon and putting trucks in the repair shop.
cant you tune it to dismiss all that emissions crap
@@markrich3271 pfff lol nope 6.4 Powerstroke would inject diesel during the exhaust stroke for Regen mode to clean out the exhaust and was a big cause of many 6.4 Failures such as
Fuel Dilution in Oil
Burnt Valves
Melted Pistons
Blowtorch exhaust
Damaged Bank Accounts for Repairs
For whatever it is worth on the subject mater. I made a startling discovery of a fine dust in the the hot side turbo to intercooler ducting on my 2006. I traced it to a leak on the POS OE air box next to the battety side where there are no
I know a 2000 5.9 cummins that is for sale with only 40.xxxmiles. It's an ex militairy vehicle. Are there ways or tricks (like the pressure from the oil filler cap) to be as sure as possible that i'ts an healty engine. It's more then 1000km away so i would really have to be sure. I already bought a landcruiser that swallowed it's turbo blades so i'm not really in to rebuilding another engine.
I was told that injectors can not be tested in truck because the mechanical portion of the injector may not be operating as the electronic signal would suggest when scanning pulse. I'm no expert, this is just what i've heard.
There definitely are limitations to diagnosing an injector in the vehicle, especially with the OEM scan tool. The return flow test is also very useful if done properly. We test the injector pulse width with an oscilloscope to see the corrections the ECM is making to each cylinder to balance the engine. This gives us an idea of possible injector delivery issues. The short falls of most in vehicle tests on the 5.9L Cummins, is that they are performed at idle and my miss an issue at another operation condition.
While bench testing injectors does give a better over all picture, it does not guarantee to the longevity of the injector. A good way of looking at any test is that a fail proves the part is faulty but a pass does not always mean the part is good.
that's what must have happened to mine, 13,000$ later, good as gold. but I learned a few things your video your from PG eh, nice im from the coast, what do you think (if any) of Vulcan performance filter systems? I bought one with a 2 micron cat filter, haven't used it yet, not sure if the cat filter needs a o ring or not so I haven't out it in
A good quality filter is key. A 2 micron Donaldson or CAT filter would be a good choice but stay away from will fit filters. Some aftermarket filter companies make one filter to replace multiple micron ratings and may not be adequate.
a little puff is normal in my eyes only when you punch it tho and im talking a very very small amount, if you cant see through it then yes problem haha
Isn't this mostly just because of how the owner takes care of it overtime? I want to get an 07 5.9. I have an 01 5.9 V8 but I'd like to have something more recent also. Would like to get a single cab, definitely gonna keep my 2nd gen. I love it. Also I'm sure Lucas additive would have prevented this from happening, keeps my 2nd gen clean and running strong. I put it in my tank twice a year.
I have a 2010 6.7 cummins with new injectors and injector pump and still I get no starts
197,000 miles and counting on an 06
What kind of fuel filters do you recommend
lost compression cylinder #1. about how much would it cost to fix? is total rebuild needed? truck has no blow by out of the lol cap. still runs drives good. just rough idle on start up.
If you have verified that there is low compression on #1 cylinder with a compression test and you have no blow by then your issue could very well be valvetrain related. Without seeing the vehicle I cannot quote on a cost of repair.
what is needed to install the correct 3 micron filter set up? or what is recommended i do to prevent this from happening? thank you
I'm new to the diesle scene but I bought a 2005 ram with 5.9 cummins (I love the name Cummins ) and when I learned about blow by I checked my motor running I pull the cap off and I see white smoke but my cap does not bounce around like that. I also noticed from the vent tube I see white smoke but only when warming up. Is this going to get worse?
Without seeing your truck, it's hard to say. From your description, it does not sound too severe but it might be a good idea to get it checked out. There could be an issue that has lead to a slight amount of blow by like dust by passing the air filter.
So whats all the parts you need to fix it? Because we had an 05 that started having problems like cutting off when driving i just wanna make sure when i get my 06 to fix it fast as possible
+Tristan Whiting Filtration is a good starting point. Besides that it all depends if you have an issue. Getting your truck tested for cylinder balance would help narrow things down.
Hi,
I have a 2007 5.9 liter Dodge with 37000 miles on it. I've changed the oil and fuel filter on it a couple of times. Do I need to worry about this fuel filtration system on my mode? any thoughts would be helpful. ALSO, when you say "micron filtration system" where is this system located? Are you speaking of the fuel filter or what?
Yes he is talking about the fuel filter. Filters are measured by microns in their filtration determining how big of particles are allowed through the filter. The stock fuel filter only filters down to 7 microns whereas an Air Dog or FASS lift pump filter down to 2 or 3 microns.
Also as for your model engine it is the same as the one shown. You should still install a lift pump such as FASS or Air Dog or an inline fuel filter such as a CAT inline fuel filter
I have an 07 that exibits the same issues. low compression in #6. I notices exhaust coming out the fuel filter drain which puzzles me. Any explanation why this would occur? Thanks.
Please clarify what you mean by exhaust out of the filter filter drain. Is it just black or aeration?
I have an 06 5.9 Cummins. I have a similar symptom were it overfuels. But my engine is still healthy. What should I do to prevent further damage. Truck has 289K miles
Having the vehicle diagnosed for the over fueling issue would be a good idea. Injectors very well could be the cause but other issues with the high pressure fuel system can cause this as well. Also some of the aftermarket stock filters are restrictive from new and cause black smoke within a short period of time.
Is it ok for my 1989 dodge cummins to have black smoke when I punch it? (Full stock)
With a vehicle of this age you may experience some smoke from warn parts such as injectors. Generally these older 12 valve engines were very reliable, though if worked hard with high mileage injectors, they can fail as well. This was more common in the industrial engines of that era than the Dodge trucks but I would recommend replacing injectors if they are original.
I assume you referring to fuel filter?
Good video.
How long does it drive before damage occurs I would think a service engine light would be on and one would notice
The majority of the time, the customer comes in for a rough start with some exhaust smoke first thing in the morning. No codes or check engine lights. At this point one cylinder has little to no compression (0-100 psi) the damage is already done. Out of 50+ cases, I believe one might have a P030# code but the rest did not.
@@PGFuelInjection sounds like bs on dodges part
I've just stated getting a weird stutter on start up on temps under 0°c I'm guessing a should get this checked out. I have no blow by and no loss of power
How do I get one of these injector tests
I appreciate the time you took to make this video, but this truck had over 300,000 miles on it. Even as a 2004 (the earliest year for the 325 HP variant) that comes out to over 30000 miles a year. That is an extreme amount of driving in a short time period. This truck was abused. I would bet against regular air filter, fuel filter and oil filter changes performed on this truck as well.
Not many diesel owners understand the importance of regular fuel filter changes. I agree that the 7 micron filter is a joke, but if you change it at least every other oil change, you are decreasing your odds of extreme fuel contamination such as this case
Thank you for your time
That is in kilometers though. So it has around 205,000 miles.
Even then...200000 miles for a 8 year old truck comes out to over 20000 miles a month, pretty extreme use
Matthew Trujillo According to my math on a 8 year old truck that's only 2,135 miles a month. 25,625 a year. That's not extreme use at all
That's your opinion dk. I have to do alot of driving just to put 13000 miles on my truck a year, let alone 25000, which would almost be double what I drive. That is pretty extreme use. There is a reason why NADA and KBB base light depreciation at 12000 miles...just sayin
Sorry, it took so long to reply. You are correct that improper maintenance can lead to this type of failure, especially on a high mileage engine. However, this is a very common issue on this particular model and generally can happen anywhere between 100,000 to 200,000 KM, depending on fuel quality. When the engines we diagnose are torn down, we examine them with a local machine shop and flow test all the injectors. We have had customers putting on over 100,000 KM a year with replace engine failures do to over fueling injectors. By the time they enter our shop they many be on their second or third engine. The cure was to install a primary 2 micron fuel filter and replace the faulty injectors that were the root cause all along. The main problem, is that normal OEM diagnostics will no show this issue until there is a loss of compression in a cylinder.
I've seen the vent hoses on the tank cause an issue like this from water intrusion I think f19 is the bulletin they released
I'd like to hear more about this.
My truck is consume a fairly large amount of oil, and I have done every conceivable test on my truck, the only thing I havent done is a test like yours, or a compression test.
Ive checked coolant for oil, I have done the oil filler cap check, I have checked both the hot and cold side of the turbo for oil, theres no smoke whatsoever, and my truck has no cat on it to catch smoke/oil.
It starts perfectly and runs smooth enough to balance a nickle on its side on the valve cover, I've also checked the blowby tube, hot or cold I dont see any smoke. The only oil leak I have is my front crank seal. It will go from full to add in about 800km or so. I'm not sure what to do, at this point and it doesnt seem like the crank seal is leaking bad enough for me to be losing that much oil. If you could offer a suggestion, I would really appreciate it.
Thanks
I would expect some amount of blue smoke if you engine was consuming the oil. You can never over look an external leak. It may only leak while driving or at a specific temperature. I would correct the leak first.
PGFuelInjection Alrighty, thank you.
new to the diesel world so it happens to both 12v and 24v because I was looking at 04 5.9 3500 cummins
This specific issue occurs on the 2004.5 to 2007 5.9L engines with 325 HP.
So let's say I got a 03 5.9 3500 don't worry about it but also to get something to get more life out of it
+Anthony Daniels Yes, additional filtration would be a good idea. The 250 HP and 305 HP do not develop this issue as they have different pistons and injectors.
+PGFuelInjection okay thank you for that info! much appreciated
@@PGFuelInjection is there anything that Cummins is doing for us.
nice video
You said that it needs a 2 micron filtration.Where do you purchase these micron filters?
You would need to purchase an auxiliary filter assemble as there are no 2 micron filter elements for the stock assemble. A FASS system is one option or a filter kit like we sell which installs a fuel manager into the system.
How much is your filter kit and what is the address and phone number.Thanks PS how often do you change the filter and how much and can they be purchase by you.
James Smith We sell a kit for about $190 CND. Filters are roughly $24. I would recommend replacing both filters every second oil change or 15,000 km. You can contact us here.
www.dieselpro.ca/contact-us.html
Do you guys block off the blow by tube to get the blow by to get that much blow by?
Nope. This video shows what it looks like when you pop the hood and spine off the oil filler. No tools required.
This problem only occurs in dodge chassis. I've never seen a 04-07 Cummins in a medium duty chassis fail. I'm thinking is the injector dodge uses for this application
Yes, this engine in other on highway applications, uses the early injector with eight holes and a more normal spray pattern. In these years of Dodge pickup trucks the injectors have five hole nozzles with a very steep spray pattern and different piston design. I believe this was done for emissions reasons and why this engine does not have an EGR system as found on the Ford 6.0L and GM Duramax.
were are you guys located and what does this test cost?
We are in Prince George, British Columbia, Canada. A standard check up runs about $114.00 CND. For our address visit:
www.dieselpro.ca/contact-us.html
are these the Cummins ISB's? i dont think modern day cummins engines are as reliable as the old ones. the 6BT 12V has to be the best engine they have built
i like the 12 v
Why does your oil pressure go to 760??? What is the units on that?
+Dev Everything It's kPa (kilopascal) which is found on the Canadian vehicles. 760 kPa is 110 PSI.
So theres no fixing this its time for a new motor or truck basically?
Either removing and repairing the engine or replacing it is needed. The cylinder and piston are damaged.
If those were stock injectors at 331396 miles then I'm sure the injectors were going out. If the injectors were over fueling then ya you would burn the piston. But there are tale signs when injectors start going bad. Maintenance Maintenance Maintenance.
I don’t understand tho, my 2005 5.9 Cummins doesn’t have any blowby at all! I have 0 codes on ecm, well enough full pressure, with air dog full system and cp3 is good, no black smoke unless I put a smarty tuner on it, turbo was checked good, transmission rebuilt with shift kit really good, and new oem injectors tested good, basically every sensor on the truck replaced, and the truck has very low power especially when it gets up to operating temperature, then causes the transmission to shift weird because the engine and trans work together! No overheating! I just don’t understand someone help me! Do I have maybe low compression in some cylinders and need to be tested? That’s honestly my last even step to figuring out why it’s so slow and no power especially when warmed up? Truck starts up just fine it’s only when going on the gas in drive it had no power at all. Also has 294,000 miles on it my dad did awhile back but 90hp injectors in it and power max tuner right when he bought the truck so idk🤷🏻♂️
Unfortunately, this issue is not common for this truck and would require hands on diagnosis. What is the fuel rail pressure when the issue is occurring? Does it match the desired value? Also what is the boost pressure? When you say the transmission shifts weird do you mean it hangs in a low gear and won't upshift which is common for a low power issue?
@@PGFuelInjection fuel rail pressure is around 26,000 at full throttle my guru show me on his snap on computer and does match the desired yes! The turbo boost pressure maxed out at 32 maybe 34psi of boost, weird shifts like it’ll feel like it shifts up and shifts back down and stutter shifts just not a smooth shift pattern
@@matthewmurdock1897 23,000 psi is the stock rail pressure limit. I assume these reading were taken with a tune in the ECM. That shifting issue is a concern. Generally, a low power issue will only cause the transmission to hang in a gear until you let off the throttle. There may be an input issue causing the shifting problem. Has the valve clearance been checked? Also has the charger cooler been tested for leaks?
@@PGFuelInjection my bad 23,000 then all I know is he showed me it was good where it needs to be, it was a few months ago, and yeah seems like bad power problem! And yes to even go into overdrive and some other gears I have to let off gas. This issue of low power has been increasing over time and getting for over years so idk I gave the truck back to my dad for awhile driving a 95 Nissan hardbody with only 103,000 miles on it I just wanted to ask and see maybe why it’s causing it
the emissions garbage os killing all brands of newer diesel engines
What software were you using?
In the video I am using a Picoscope. www.picoauto.com
Good helps
I have never seen a Cummins that does not smoke.
Glad I got a 2002 before Cummins staring fuking things up......................
2002.. sorry to break it to you but you have a vp44 injection pump.
The common rail is infinitely better than the VP44, both in reliability and performance.
Kelcey K the vp44 isn't the best injector pump in terms of reliability but there are ways to make it last. Most vp44 failures have been due to the OE Carter lift pump failing and burning out the rotor in the VP because of no fuel delivery that lubricates the rotor. Install a fass or air dog lift pump with an in cab pressure gauge and the VP is good for a long time
Just a quick question... Are the CP3 pumps affected by this in any way? I just rebuilt my 04 Cummins and had cylinders 1 and 6 look exactly as you shown.
+Jacques De Villiers The CP3 pumps on this engine are quite robust and have a low failure rate. That being said, added filteration will help with longevity.
+PGFuelInjection Thanks! I added a fass fuel pump/filter to my truck.
06 cummins is 100%. transmission is another story
Balls Mcgee 48re is actually very good once built. That’s the key word “built”. Although at stock power levels maintained is still not bad.
quiero conocer más de éstos motores deassel
Bullshit my 5.9 has 282,000 miles With original Injectors and high-pressure pump still running like new the problem is in diesel
331,000 miles............that ole girl needs some tlc.
Has anyone noticed that it has 200 on the dash?
Does running an additive like Diesel Kleen or Stenodyne help?
+TheFordguy72 Running Stanadyne will help prevent asphaltene drop out, lubrication and moisture in the fuel but will not help with the poor filtration of these trucks. The fuel system on a 2015 Dodge 6.7L is very similar to that on this 5.9L but Chrysler effectively have 3 filters on the new trucks.
Wow I have never seen a 6 cylinder Cummins.... Must be gutless. I have owned 5 or 6 V8 cylinder cummins diesels
What part of the world do you live in?
Eastern US, why?
@@KenMrKLC I just don't quite understand your comment. Maybe it's gone right over my head.
KLC LAWN & LANDSCAPING You’re either a troll or stupid.
Andrew Parsons my Cummins is a v-12
Wait Prince George? Like Prince George British Columbia?
Yes
Can you go to my channel and listen to my truck think it has a bad piston, I really need help its knocking and I had the granny built and they said it wasn't the flex plate, and I have new injectors, please help!
I tried to look for your channel but there are no videos posted.
r
Good video