The real reason automatics are quicker than manuals | Know it All with Jason Cammisa | Ep. 11
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- Опубликовано: 17 июн 2024
- These days, automatic-equipped cars can accelerate more quickly than their manual-transmission counterparts. One of the reasons is that many automatics can shift quickly and with little or no interruption in power.
But that was always the case. Something else has changed - and that "something" is gearing.
It's the same reason why the 992-chassis Porsche 911 GT3 Touring didn't initially pass drive-by noise regulations with the PDK automatic versus the manual - when both cars used the same engine and exhaust.
In fact, the majority of the discrepancy between the transmissions' acceleration isn't due the shift-times, it's due to gearing.
Watch and learn why.
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I'm pretty sure another reason is because of the amount of gears you can have. A 9 speed manual is probably very difficult to use in a regular car, which is why the highest amount of gears we've seen is 7 in the Corvette C7. If we take the Mustang GT, the manual has 6 gears and the automatic has 10, so they can have shorter gears for acceleration and long gears for MPG.
Yeah, this seems like the more obvious answer. But I guess we have seen enough "cheating on tests with the computers" business to think the "cheating" scenario is also driving it.
Great answer!
Nah you could just put an 18 speed Eaton fuller in your Honda and all your fast and furious dreams will come true! 😅
I drove a Jag with an 8 speed
I'm also pretty sure that once those clutch fingers wear down on an automatic, you ain't moving anywhere near as quick, I know from experience with my jeep and Lumina, cuz my current car is a 6 speed Forte and this bih quick
This Adam Sandler/Ryan Reynolds guy knows so many things it’s amazing
Adam Sandlers facd with Ryan Reynolds' personality lol
Ummmm pretty sure this is Ben Affleck.... though clearly they all look the same 🤣
He does look like em or the child of the two. 😂
@@villewintermaul1907 ahaha yes Ben Affleck too
@@villewintermaul1907 Yeah thats where I was going too
It helps that autos are also 8 , 9 ,10 gears now , they can be geared insanely short and still idle on the freeway
Not to mention CVTs, although I don't like them.
And eventually you site with a repair bill equal to the value of your ten speed car?
@@surena9451 cvt is a great idea but definitely needs more research
@@Deontjie 10 gear automatics aren't anything special, and would not have more expensive repairs (unproportionally) compared to any other automatic. Planetary gears are just nicely scalable.
@@Adlore Planet gears needs a belt which is not reliable yet. Maybe next year. Each gear in an auto-box needs an expensive solenoid. Not costly to manufacture, just expensive to buy.
In forza I would often make overpowered cars by adding the 6 speed transmission mod and adjusting the gear ratios so that each shift is passed peak torque and approaching peak power. The one car this didn’t really work for was the integra type r. It came from the factory at optimal ratios.
Only works on turbo cars
@@CAL1MBO only works on cars with high rpm. it worked amazingly well on any honda.
Pretty sure Forza doesn't simulate turbo spooling. It just adds power at high rpm.
@@Mernom it actually does, you can change the HUD to show speed, RPM, tire wear, torque and hp. you can watch the torque spike and then fall off as you stay in the gear.
Not like this is going to matter much in a game where a hot rod blasts hypercars
I love that Mazda punishes you for buying the automatic. Oh, they'll still sell you one, but you don't get the good suspension, brakes, differential and chassis bracing.
Alot of companies do that lol
@Yippee Skippy meh, couldn't care less 👍
@Yippee Skippy alot
i decided you gotta suffer reading a misspelled word
alot alot alot alot
I have a Sentra SE-R Spec V. It's the only way to get all that stuff in a Sentra, and it only comes with a 6-speed manual.
The gearing is pretty short, too. 35mph in 3rd gear is about 3000rpm. 1st-5th are similar to my 1987 CRX with 1st gen integra engine, but the Sentra has a lot more torque (and a lot more weight).
@@insomniacbritgaming1632 which companies tho? Other than the Miata and the GT86, I couldn’t think of any car that’s faster in manual than they are in Auto.
"If you buy a sports car with an automatic you deserve to suffer." We love you Jason! I turned on the captions and had to screenshot you with that line!
Buy*
@@shrek_2_on_dvd699 Thanks! I fixed it. A typo, not ignorance! BYE now. :)
L
Something like a DCT is acceptable to me, as long as you use the dct as a sequential and not as a full fledged auto ;)
@@kuiper921 To each their own. As long as you are having fun! :)
The other thing is that initially the PDK had 1 more gear than the manuals. The 997 and early 991s had 6-speed manuals and 7-speed PDKs. The PDK could afford to make the gears significantly shorter without losing out on speed.
With a manual, it's not just about speed; it's about control - the clutch is a tool to that end. To drive a car with a manual transmission gracefully over a twisting and hilly road is pure pleasure.
there auto with clutch too but not cheap
True, but a throttle-laggy and rev-hanging engine is pure Purgatory to drive with a stick.
I drive stick because I enjoy the art of driving with precision. Double-clutching/rev matching my downshifts , even though I don't need to, because I can (and it's smoother). And I at least rev-match my upshifts, so zero drivetrain lash. (And, of course, speed-shifting it once a month, just in case the hydraulics take a dump again, so I'm in practice.)
Is it necessary? Heck no! Is it satisfying? Oh hell yea!
Now, I briefly owned an F250 with the plug-eating 5.4, and throttle-by wire. And it took AGES to do a decent upshift with all the rev hang! (The truck would slow down almost as fast as the revs dropped.) To the point that I gave up. And every sloppy upshift, with noticeable drivetrain lash, and engine slowdown, just... *ate at my soul.* In a piddling, miniscule way. (Oh, and forget blipping the throttle for upshifts!)
Everyone bitches about stop-and-go. Not me! But electronic throttles were invented by someone who HATES the act of driving.
It's euphoric isn't it
Sounds like a nightmare. Then again, while I like cars, I don't care for this sort of stuff. I like performance, and if that comes in the form of an auto, I'll prefer that. I can drive manual, I just don't care to.
@@Xyler94 I agree, unless you're trying to skid the clutch gets in the way and left foot braking your way through corners is more stable and fun.
Im a die hard petrolhead and still manage to learn new stuff about cars with this videos.
same here
This is fairly beginner stuff honestly. So What does die hard petrol head mean?
@@akassasin5768 he din't say ''dye'' you petrol head
@@RotaryPoweredRX wtf are you talking about?? Are you ok?
@@akassasin5768 your lack of knowing the difference of "dye" and "die"
Hagerty is killing it with automotive content these days. I've spent countless hours watching talented and knowledgeable presenters like Jason Cammisa. I hope they give these guys a raise so they keep entertaining and teaching us. Bought a manual MK7 GTI last year as an extra car last year. Hadn't driven a stick in 20 years but the muscle memory came back instantly. I was terrified of the first test drive but Covid let me go out alone...whew!!
They may be a little quicker but no fun to drive. For sure if your on a curvey road or track. Plus not much worry about a manual getting stole as most young people can’t drive them. I’ll stay with the manual
Meanwhile, my Honda fit is about a second faster to 60 with the manual vs CVT.
Doesn't change the fact that they are both slow.
I wasn't going to bother making a comment about my Fit with all the fancy sports car talk, but having had an '07 AT Fit and then an '08 MT Fit the Auto was geared far, far taller and is an absolute dog in acceleration in every gear. But the AT's 5th gear was a monster making freeway speeds far lower in the RPM. The '08 MT was spritely (I'd never use the word "fast" around it) especially in 2nd and 3rd as well as 4th a bit before it ran out of breath above 5k. I'm sure the later generation CVTs were even more impacted.
Omg I don't like cvt
😂 your funny man I liked this comment
Nothing beats the simplicity, efficiency and durability of a well engineered manual transmission!
I would beg to differ. I get far more pleasure from a DSG than a manual. It's epic having those gear changes happen in milliseconds at your command. Manuals are slow, clunky and just plain boring in comparison. Each to their own but I've never understood why manuals are so adored. They are a chore not a pleasure!
@@brodiejones2028 Manual is more of a joy to drive if you know how to use it, it becomes instinctive, much more fun driving a car than driving a go-cart.
@@chizorama I'm 63. Grew up with manuals. Raced rally cars with manual gear boxes. I endured them, never enjoyed them. Till I got a DSG. Then the fun started! I rode and raced motorcycles. Love changing gears on a motorcycle probably because it is much more like a DSG. Safe to say I'm not going to start enjoying manuals now!
Well, apparently a double clutch automatic does.
@@brodiejones2028 Reckon not, but automatics are boring to me, plus I save on brake pads driving stick.
There’s another reason for this which Jason left out. Of course Ford can have shorter ratios when they have 10 gears in the Auto vs 6 in the manual and 8 in the Porsche vs 7 or 6 in the Manual. Thereby using the same final drive you can have shorter ratios between gears. The Mazda is a 6 speed whether you get an Auto or a Manual, and the manual is also lighter compared to the Auto so it should be faster
He left out a ton of factors, but yes, the final drive is a HUGE factor and makes up for the lower gearing on MTs. That and ATs now have 7-10 gears, so they have to spread the gearing out a lot more, which forces them to have higher geared 1-3 or 1-4. Also, launching an MT adds a ton of time to a 0-60 or even 1/4. The time to shift + launch is the BIGGEST reason why MTs are behind in 0-60. Transmission gearing deficit is offset by better FD ratios. Furthermore, if MTs have aggressive 1-2 or 1-3 ratios, they'd be worse to 60, since they'd struggle to put power down when launching. This whole argument by Jason is nonsense.
Exactly, kind of dumbfounded he didn't mention that little tid bit. Since these 8,9,10 autos are newly developed, there could have just as easily been 8,9,10 manuals developed. Problem is, they don't sell to justify the R&D.
@@nathanaelcole8466 😂😂 10 speed manual, finally fast and furious gearbox for the masses.
@@nathanaelcole8466 10, 12 speed manuals are only available in commercial/Freight vehicles, most you’ll see in a car is a 7 speed manual. Keep in mind rowing through that many gears in manual car is usually counter productive as you’d have even more “shift time loss” under hard acceleration and would be pain in daily driving and you’d have even more clutch wear.
@@jonathanhidalgo4591 but most of the extra gears are OD gears. What you do is you buy a lower engine speed cruising with 10 gears but allow yourself the aggressive gearing down low. For a 1/4 mile run, it chould mean one more gear change not three or four.
Engineering Explained did an episode recently on this as well.
I agree that they are stacking the deck against the manual transmission, but a note to keep in mind is that the automatics in most cases are 8-10 speeds (edit: at the time of this post) as opposed to most manuals having 6 or 7. This means that they can use more lower gears to accelerate while still having a high top speed.
Just another note for the conversation.
I hope they stop "trying" to kill the manual transmission because I hope to own more in my future. Right now I've got an automatic that just doesn't do it for me.
After 40 years of manual only in my household I was forced to move to an automatic 4 years ago (replacing the last 4-door manual sedan made by Ford) with an automatic 4-door sedan. Thought about getting the Chevy SS but didn't (my loss).
Yep. Even if you ignore the consistency at launch and ease of launch of an automatic, the manual is still giving up anywhere from 1-4 gears vs a modern automatic. And ive never seen anyone that can shift a manual as fast as a well set up auto. Period.
Afaik DCT's are still heavier. More importantly manuals have fewer moving parts and all else being equal can be much more reliable (assuming a reasonably competent driver). I doubt EV's will have the same problem, but I much prefer how predictable the throttle response (consistent power for the same speed/rpm/throttle) is with a manual.
The issue is. EE sucks. Discount Sandler is far more entertaining.
@@tailsneon556 Maybe you are too dumb to understand EE, as it involves physics and math 🙄
Give Jason more work! He's awesome. Delivery is technical and understanding and he doesn't speak 2mph like your other hosts!
This was awesome! Love this channel!
You made me quite literally laugh out loud with "anyone who owns the sports car with an automatic transmission deserves to suffer". Love your channel sir!
Such a silly thing to say. I guess all those GT500 owners "deserve to suffer" lmao
Cammisa loves the GT500 so I doubt he even means it
@@bhr788 Why do you have to take everything so literally?
@@bhr788 They do tho :P
Yanks love their autos.. In my country the overwhelming majority are manual cars. Here the automatics tend to be driven by the elderly, women or disabled people.
@@davidgalea6113 Americans LOVE manuals when it comes to sports cars specifically. That's why BMW sold the E60 and F80 M5s with a manual option only in the US
Business opportunity: Re-gear manual transmissions for optimal acceleration….
it already exist for some prosche trans
Final drive gear swap would do the trick like is commonly done on Mustangs and Chevys
There is already a video about doing that to gt4 on this channel.
DeMan and Sharkwerks would like a word
@@IT_Farhan Both even offer different ratios from the factory. My 2015 GT with 3.73s gets moving pretty well, but the new 10 speed cars will still destroy it. Over on engineering explained channel he actually made a video on why the 2018+ manual mustangs are slower than the old ones (hint: gearing).
I love the short gears in my 2010 RX-8. Also, they shortened 1st gear for the Series II versus the Series I.
MORE JASON CAMMISA!!! ✌🏾everyday I love your energy bro and the way you talk about cars it’s a amazing and I love being part of this community 🫡
Seriously, this is the kind of car content I love. I would love to see a video about “the agreement” about the speed wars in Japan.
There is no "agreement" in Japan. Just look at the CBR-1000RR-R.
@@devonking5710 he's talking about the gentlemen's agreement, which there absolutely WAS, in the 80s/90s regarding limiting engine output to 280PS (276 SAE HP).
@@jsquared1013 and thus we got engine blocks like 2jz which came at 270hp iut the factory but could handle a 1000 ❤️
@@devonking5710 The agreement was with cars, not bikes. The idea was to make sure car sales were more on the merit of the car, so they all got a chance to sell, versus consumers just going with the fastest car- something I wish these super and hypercar people would do.
Of course they didn't strictly hold themselves to the agreement.
@TrueKen is it a new non-oem or a used oem one's price?
Gearing, and not just feel, is another reason Honda manual gearboxes are awesome. Short closely-spaced gearing.
*Laughs in NA1 NSX*.... 😆😅😢
Ya, my 2000 S2000 manual box is awesome. Haven’t driven a manual yet that even comes close.
I agree. Best gearbox I ever manhandled was a Honda. The one in my base Golf is clunky at best.
Yeah, the TSX gearbox in my car has a 4.76 final drive and a close ratio gearbox. At 5th gear at 40mph, I'm at about 2100 to 2200 rpm.
The MX-5’s six-speed manual has no overdrive gear. It is a true close-ratio stick shift. Result? In the twisties you'll always be able to find the right gear. The Civic Type R, on the other hand, devotes its two top gears to overdrive droning. Better for the MPG rating, Don’ cha know?
That was a surprisingly concise and easy to understand video, thanks!
This guy is great, thinking and bringing to the table interesting content and original.
Half a second to 60 mph is a fair price to pay to have a clutch and H shifter.
Agreed!
hold up I don't you want that exhaust pop with a up shift? some cars with the dual clutch transmission when in sport mode will pop on upshifts.
@@crazeguy26 True, but nothing is better than nailing a perfect heel toe downshift with a stick.
@@Sephiroth5200 very good point is pure bliss.
@@crazeguy26 No i dont also you can get mild backfire on almost any petrol cari n certain rpm range, it will cackle and pop too and sound of engine moaning during clutching especially more slippy and slower one....you just make music with a manual automatics ruin it by default.
I will always take that over car akwardly farting and having nonexistant clutchingintervals that sound really unnatural
The mustang gt 5.0 auto is a 10 speed...of course the gears are going to be shorter than a 6 speed manual...
Yes, but the gears are not there for 0-60, they are there for EPA noise and MPG regs, the 0-60 is a side effect, and the same EPA regs force manuals to have longer gearing ruining the 0-60
@@cirian75 With 10 gears however, you can have a big overall spread with reasonable steps between each gear. So yes they were developed mainly for economy but they serve well as a performance too. The transmission is the same between trucks and cars. So what helps a Mustang off the line also helps an F150 get a trailer moving from a stop.
@@cirian75 Hey Cirian75, why does the EPA force manuals to have higher gearing? Because of the sound regulations?
@@ananthprem8804 EPA doesn't force anyone to use tall gearing, it's a tactic found by automakers. EPA is the wet blanket, who doesn't like anyone having fun. They have different methods to test noise and emission stuff for manual and automatic. It's something like, manuals have to floor the accelerator in 3rd gear and automatics only have to apply some amount of throttle without the transmission kicking down the gears. Pretty discriminatory if you ask me.
I remember my first 10-speed. It was a Schwinn.
Detailed, Thorough & Clear 👍 Great Information 👍
Great infos and fun to watch. Love it to the end👍
this would be great knowledge if I was in a position to buy a new car, but since I buy my cars 20 years old and with 99 problems I pick manual every time so at least that doesn't give me problems
Agreed! Sticking to vehicles year 2000 and older. Cheaper fixes and less computer headaches.
20 year old automatic transmissions are often bulletproof, especially in the US where the manufacturers did not have to cheat the customers that the oil in their transmission is made of some magical compound that does not deteriorate EVER and there's a better chance of buying one that was properly maintained.
@@pdcichosz man I hate everytime they say that: _lifetime transmission fluid_ 🤦♂️🤣
@@aaryeshg.6526 I mean every fluid is lifetime fluids, they just reduce the lifetime if not changed on regular intervals.
This guy knows the wae (way).
I suspected the auto's having shorter gears helped. But, what I thought was working well for the recent auto's is that whole 8/9/10 gears thing. I figured they are so quick because the shifts are so fast / with continuous power so you can have 2-3 shifts to 60 / max that wheel torque without much cost in shifting time. I had no idea that the strategy initially was related to fuel economy with the opposite of that equation working against the sticks.. . I don't care. I'm not a drag racer, both my cars are sticks, my wife drives the slushbox.
Yeah I was somewhat leaning towards the higher amount of gears, but cheating the EPA and sound levels makes sense as well. I think a lot of people that like manuals stateside generally have manual cars with crazy long gears. Then we also had manufacturers that know magazines like 0-60. I think it was only Subaru at one point that needed a third shift before 60 and everyone else geared around it and the Subaru looked much slower by that metric. It's funny the strange superficial forces that can push product developers in weird ways.
@@jinxtacy the GD chassis Subaru STI was geared short enough that it needed a 2-3 shift right before hitting 60 mph (2004-2006 at least... I think 2007 was when they lengthened some gears, but I want to say it was only 4th-6th, can't remember exactly). But that was also influenced by the gears being spec'ed according to the original 2.0-liter engine, which outside of North American redlined at 8,000 rpm rather than the 7,000 of the 2.5-liter (which was also a product of emissions regs, in this case cold-start emissions regs, since the cast pistons of the existing 2.5-liter bottom end could run tighter piston-to-wall clearances which reduced cold-start emissions compared to the wider clearances needed for the forged pistons in the JDM 2.0-liter STI). With the higher, original redline, the 2-3 shift would have been after 60 instead of before.
Some don't even go through every gear. 2016 Navigator and Expy under moderate load would just go 1-2-7.
@@jsquared1013 Thank you for sharing your knowledge. That makes a lot of sense. I never really thought about the 2.0 potentially having a higher redline. It makes sense though.
@@jsquared1013 hey I have a 07 sti. The only difference is 3rd and 4th. All other gears are the same as previous year.
Always dropping gems
Having a manual is more about control. Yes the new automatics are superior but you just don’t get the same driving experience with one. I collect Corvette’s, and I’ve owned every generation except a C1. I’ve always bought manuals. I recently bought a 2021 C8 8speed auto. Wow!!! This transmission rocks. It’s much superior to the 7speed manual in the C7 which I also own. But I won’t get rid of my manual Vetts.
Did you end up getting a C1?
@@Jakeman302 I own a C2 currently and I’ve owned a C3 and 2 C4’s plus a C5 Z06 and a C7 Z06 but no C1 unfortunately. I like to get a C6 Z06 then I’ve owned every generation except a C1.
Helps that the C8 Vette only comes in automatic.
I have owned 4 manual cars and two automatics
Once automatics got paddle shifters that forced a hard shift, control as a reason for manual disappeared. Even non-pdk slushboxes could outperform manuals, shift speeds were faster and lockup torque converters tightened up the drivetrain.
Now I really appreciate car companies that only make a manual of certain car model… the Dodge Viper as an example ❤️ no EPA crap.
EPA pressures prolly killed the Viper
@@tuscanoasis That and mandatory nanny aids is what killed it.
And now it’s dead.
@@ItsDaJax and that they struggled to sell them. The money just wasn't there to justify keeping it.
@@ItsDaJax EPA has nothing to do with cars minus smog. Viper passed that, so your point bout EPA is dumb. You could turn off TCS and I was not aware of SCS in a Viper. So another ignorant remark. They are not great cars to live with, probably why they didn't sell all that well. They are however a good second weekend/track car. Big government didn't kill the viper, Dodge did.
I particularly appreciate how you refer to the DCT as an "automatic". Truth is that people who own DCT equipped vehicles, drive them in "auto mode" most of the time, specially after the first week of ownership, once the novelty of paddle shifting has past.
the problem with referring to a DCT as an automatic is they function more like a manual transmission. a traditional automatic uses torque converters and not clutches.
@@jeremytheimer7443 The real problem is that most owners of DCT's will use the paddles for the first 2 weeks and after that it's basically an auto gearbox....In terms of performance Ive owned a DSG equipped Audi and leaving it in "auto" and "Sport" is better than trying to switch gears yourself. ANd honestly at that point you should have bought the manual version anyways.
@@Blackdawn80 Depends if you just like driving in straight lines.
@@aaronwestley3239 The way those fake paddles are setup in most DCT equipped vehicles makes them a huge inconvenience for daily driving. Sorry but it's true. Only the paddles mounted on the steering column are actually useful 100% of the time. The steering wheel mounted buttons are there for mostly straight line driving.
@@jeremytheimer7443 DCTs shift for you automatically.
This reminds me of a situation many years ago that was sort of the opposite regarding emission standards. I had two nearly identical cars, but one was a manual and one was an automatic. They both offered 29mpg on the window sticker. The automatic had an EGR valve, but the manual didn't. Apparently the manual transmission was a slightly more efficient powertrain than the automatic, so they had to slap a bandaid on the slushbox to get it to match.
Yep, old VW 1.9 TDIs often had EGR coolers (allowing more egr) for the automatic cars but the manuals just had a standard EGR.. common mod was to remove the EGR cooler which could fail and leak, or remove the egr entirely.
VW Group change a fair bit when going for an auto, they used to give rear disk brakes, hill hold and ESP for free on some of their smaller models with an auto. Some makers do very little but some use different ECU tunes or just decide to use a certain engine with the auto. Front suspension is one thing often changed, diesel model springs are sometimes used. Slushboxes need larger and better vented brakes but some manufacturers didn't bother. Some need better alternator or better cooling too
Yup. This is about the best explanation Ive heard so far.
I've owned an Alfa Romeo Giulia for 8 months and already miss the stick. Looking very seriously at the GR86 as our 2nd car, the wife can keep the automatic.
135i and the M3 E46 are some choices available in manual. The Hyundai Genesis Coupe also comes in manual.
@@normandy1140 I want a lighter car, so it's down to the ND2 or GR86, maybe a used BRZ if the new one isn't to my liking. I just got a dog, so the Miata might not work.
I drive an automatic truck for 10 hours a day about 2 years now,but i would rather prefer changing 16 gears and splits all day long.totally stupid working especially in uphills or corners.
@@normandy1140 genesis eww.
@@moldyburgers8742 HAHA
Nice video, had no idea about this, but it comes to my mind that manuals are usually 6 gears plus reverse, most automatics now at days come with 7 to 10 gears which may help explain why they use shorter gearing
C7 Corvettes offer a 7 speed manual.
Flawless explanation of the currently depressing situation of the near extinction of manuals. The Miata being one of the few going against the flow puts a smile on my face 🏁
Civic SI and Type R are manual only.
WRX is still faster in manual than in CVT 💪💪💪
Nissan Z
It's a lot to do with all of the safety systems that they are putting on cars these days. Most of them, like adaptive cruise control, don't work well on manuals.
The extinction is only in USA.
Love this guys intensity. You're hired sir.
Think I remember learning at some point that torque converters have the ability to "multiply" torque, which I always assumed would help you get moving off of the starting line a little quicker... Torque converters also have a way of keeping the engine in it's "happy" RPM range.
I got to the same understanding after trying to understand powerglides in drag racing.. I think I got it
I think you need to go on Google and learn the difference between a CVT transmission and a torque converter my guy
The only reason a torque converter keeps the engine its happy rpm range is because most of the times most people who put automatics into performance cars put one with a high stall speed and since stall speed is basically the rpm needed for the rest of the drive-train to start moving you immediately get into the power-band.
Torque converters and their torque multiplying ability are one of the automotive wonders that makes automatics suck less. That 'curve' in their behaviour makes is just magic.
Absolutely loved this video! Now we need to know how and where we can change our Porsche gears to fix the lousy ratios. Additionally, Mazda has once again proved why they deserve much better status in the car world than they do.
The 911 S PDK has an extra gear, that's why it's shorter, and faster. Mazda just doesn't have the money to build a fancy PDK for their lowest selling vehicle or the incentive. Porsche races their 911s in so many GT series around the world and need to have a gearbox that competes with Ferrari, Merc, etc. Mazda just races against other Mazdas generally so they don't have the incentive. The PDK is just an amazing gearbox.
"Additionally, Mazda has once again proved why they deserve much better status in the car world than they do."
Ish. They did pigheadedly refuse to make a hot hatch Mazda 3, even though it's likely it would've blown its competition out of the water with that interior. Still salty about that.
You can pay a third party shop to replace the hearing, but it’ll cost you serious money. Thousands upon thousands of dollars. Worth it, I’d say, but quite a lot to drop into a car
As a motorcycle guy I’m completely mystified as to why people would buy sports cars without manual transmissions. Getting the revmatch right on the downshift or selecting the right gear for corner exit is insanely enjoyable and satisfying especially after you’ve messed a few up. Makes you feel like you’ve earned it.
@Lurch congratulations almost nothing you’ve said here is accurate.
Many people today prefer to buy prestige over earn it. Values have changed. And after learning what i have today I have one more reason to build my own car. Nothing beats manual control by a skilled amd knowledgeable individual
@@David.. What really kills me about my Nissan Maxima (300hp) isn't so much the goddamned fake shifts, but the fact that they didn't bother to simply have an off switch for the God damned fake shifts. I hate those fake shifts so so much. Thankfully, it's just my comfortable cruising vehicle. For fun I like my gen 3 Hayabusa...
Im faster in a automatic going around corners than a manual. I can also brake later into a corner without thinking about using a clutch i can focus more on driving and cornering.
People nowadays prefer the easier option . I’d rather be slower In a manual than faster In an automatic.
Awesome. Greatly educational.
love this channel
These videos are awesome, keep it up! It’s really interesting to find out this kind of technical insider knowledge. Save the manuals!
Very interesting topic and well explained. Nice.
Most important thing about the DCT in my BMW (apart from meaning I could afford to buy it in the first place) is that when I pull the gear lever at full tune it slams the next gear with a serious bang and that's very satisfying, although not quite as great as a good manual (which the manual version didn't have anyway)
That kick you feel at the seat of your pants when shifting the DCT at its fastest setting is exhilarating at best.
Love that you found a way to include the Miata in the same dialog with Mustang 5.0 and Porsche GT3! One more reason why Miata is always the answer :)
This is the point I’ve been making and part why I’ve gone PDK for my new car - 992GT3. Also the PDK offers greater excitement than manual, - in my opinion
Why does a pdk offer more excitement?
@@RealOrbit-Australia good question, I will try & explain my point of view in a video posting on Friday UK time 6.00pm hope you can watch 👍🏼
@@RogerBaileyOnCars will do
@@RogerBaileyOnCars Just watched your video on buying the car, great quality and content. Looking forward to more!
You just blew my mind with that information
My 700 hp Viper is hard to launch.
Drove a dual-clutch, 8 speed Ferrari Roma. Man, what a difference! No slack between gears, active traction control manages slip without flatlining the power, like my Mustang used to do.
Fantastic trans!
I think it's worth adding that most DCT's are 7 or 8 speed these days, which allows shorter gears. It'd be too much to ask a regular driver change so many gears so often manually, but obviously this isn't an issue with an automatic. For instance, the 1st gear in our VW DSG 7 speed gearbox is so short, the car uses it just momentarily on flat roads, unless you floor it from standstill. You could literally drive without 1st gear most of the time if it was a manual.
I got the same gearbox in my Transporter. I lie awake at night worrying what the cost will be when it eventually breaks.
One thing to note: if the manual ratios matched the auto/DCT, there'd be significantly more (manual) shifting involved in getting to a given speed. In that, the auto/DCT still has an advantage due to the faster shifting. Imagine a performance car with short, tight gearing in a manual transmission... it would be almost like a dump truck, with 2-3 (manual) shifts occurring before you cleared an intersection while on the street.
But the differences become much more negligible.
Maybe if you are comparing seriously under powered cars. Anything with enough power to be reasonably fun to drive would be traction limited with gearing that low. In most cases unless you are gearing for well over 150mph then a 5 or 6 speed is more than enough. the 6-10sp autos are not helping performance by having more gears, it is all done for economy, keeping the out of throttle cruising rpm at whatever their target is for that. If best economy is at 2200rpm you might be able to get within 100rpm of that with a 8sp where you might only be able to get within 300rpm of it with the 5sp. Or at 75mph that might put a 5sp at like 3200rpm and way off that economy target where an 8sp has effectively 3 over drive gears to bring the rpm down. When it comes to performance its better to look at them as having multiple over drive gears or as having enough gearing for 170mph+. 0-60 either transmission would likely only use 1st and 2nd, or 0-100 3rd additionally. Ideal gearing will always be decided by matching torque at the wheels to available traction for first gear, after that its on what is the peek power rpm of the engine and how wide is the power band. if you have a very high revving engine or one with a very narrow power band you will need closer ratios to keep the engine in that power band, for most cars with a redline around 7000rpm and ideal power band from about 5000-6200rpm either a 5 or 6 speed is ideal and weather one vs other comes down to how much power do you have both in what the 1st gear ratio would be and also to where top speed would end up. That however does not consider mpg or what rpm you end up with in high gear cruising down the highway, this is the only reason new autos are now 6-10speeds, that or in the case of luxury cars they drive smoother short shifting.
At least someone gets it. Gj dude. So many ignorant comments around.
Bro... you can skip gears in an h pattern.
You bring back happy memories. Picture a third, passing lane going up hills in a very hilly province. Picture my old 122S with a 4-speed. Picture me blowing by V8s in kick-down that would top out a 75 mph whilst the Volvo would pull 85 MPH in third. See you later big iron, except by the time they topped the hill I was long gone. Happy days with happy gearing.
You're the Man, Jason
I figured this out back when they released the Ferrari 458. You could shift it manually but it would automatically shift 1-2 for you because 1st was a really short gear. I think in normal traffic and throttle input it actually skips 1st gear.
We need you daily, Jason! You can read the phone book for all I care! I know you'd make it interesting! Just DO IT!
I love the way my 850 T-5 shifts in sport and my 02 Focus has a great box and a lovely 130 'horsepork'. ( Barely weights a tonne/2200lbs )
NB one of the French makers geared their hot-hatch to do 60 in second, thereby making the 2-3 shift defunct and shaving nearly 1/2 a second off the 0-60. This was in the 90's.
Another brilliantly entertaining video, cheers from the manual gearbox brigade 💪🏻
Incredibly great information. Thank You very much. I always thought the "forced" 1st to 4th shift on my 2000 Corvette and 2006 GTO (that I disabled) was to meet the EPA MPG test. Both GM vehicles, but they improved it significantly by 2006. I don't know if Fords or Dodge/Chryslers ever used that "trick" in their manual transmissions on high performance cars. There's nothing worse than being in an uphill green light. Try to shift into 2nd gear. Then being forced to wait to slow down and eff around to get 2nd gear and accelerate out of the middle of the intersection. Rather than an 800 RPM, no torque/no HP 4th gear response. I can literally feel the engine's pain from the high cylinder pressure and pounding in every part of the whole engine with the 4th "forced" gear. I refuse to do it. All while traffic is backed up behind you in your "sports car" at 5:15 PM trying to get home in a hurry. Arghhh. Kill me now.
Yes challengers have that skip shift function at low throttle and speeds. Its easy to bypass though.
All they need to do is make this epa silliness easily disable-able so those who want to kill it can do so. Thus minimising the damage
As always, it's the regulation's fault.
Or is it because capitalism?
@@vukashin88 Capitalism is to blame for the SUV/crossover epidemic but I don't think it's responsible for the 911 not passing noise regulations or companies designing vehicles to be best on the test cycle, not in the real world or according to consumer demand. In that case it's these specific regulations by government.
@@vukashin88 How is it capitalisms fault? What are you talking about?
@@vukashin88 You realize without capitalism there wouldn’t be millionaires of different races right? In this industry it’s regulations.
@@imnotusingmyrealname4566 Its lazy engineering. Porsche has decided the easiest way to pass the drive by test is to flub the transmission. Mazda decided the best way to pass the test was make the car quiet. Porsche should have spent more time researching better (active and passive) noise reduction technologies rather than go for the quick fix. Engineers are paid to solve problems. There are many ways to solve this problem, they are using the wrong solution.
The loudness vs short gearing thing is why I'm ok with the new WRX (and BRZ/86) being fairly quiet. The gearing is so good I wouldn't want to sacrifice it for sound.
Yes, my new VB WRX has amazing gearing! They definitely didn't let some silly tests dictate gearing choice.
This is absolutely ridiculous. This needs to be known worldwide because people just think that dual clutch is our faster because of the shifting but it’s about the gearing too! How is this not talked about already?
I’ll take a manual over a low geared auto 9/10 times.
And if you are drag racing a Porche from a dead stop your not using the car for what it was designed for. Instead of 0-60 non sense i'd like to see how they compare at track speeds, which is rarely a drag race from a dead stop.
@@mele2904 very true. I don’t hate the new autos I just wonder why they couldn’t but some R&D money into a manual gearbox.
@@JohnnyAFG81 Because, they aren't going to sink a dime into R&D on products that less than 10% of the driving populous will even be able to drive. Might be even less at 5% of drivers that can drive manuals. You're gonna have to accept that we are a dying breed.
@@shane8915 What is sad is your 100% right. Everyone is so concerned with lap times and millisecond shifts with PDK’s and DCT that they have forgotten the mechanical attachment rowing gears has. With an automatic your being driven, with a manual you are the drive.
Porsche’s current manuals are really long geared. In Australia, with 110kph speed limits, you can only legally redline a manual Porsche (any model) in first gear. A Boxster is going 18kph over the country’s maximum speed limit at redline in second gear. They are too tall to be fun anymore.
Great job on this video. Still love manuals over anything else even these days. With all the crap that’s been added onto cars these days it’s any wonder we’ve become lazy with a prime example being turn signals which people driving are using less and less when turning.
Jason Cammisa is a superb presenter. One of the top five auto journalist presenters there is in my opinion.
This is interesting.. the regular ZL1 says 3.7 for 0-60 with a manual and 3.5 with the auto (if I remember right). I guess this is closer because the ZL1 M6 can do 0-60 all in first gear and the the 6.2L supercharger still has plenty of torque to spin pretty much all the way through first. Great video!
Automatics with aftermarket high stall converters were beating manuals of the line long before dual clutch autos were a thing
Yup people forget about the high stall converters. But I prefer turns in a course over drag racing.
👌🏿 hell fucking yes.
Exactly.
Even tho an automatic is more practical, the manual one is waaaay more fun so, in the end, it rly depends on what the buyer wants, to have fun or to be more practical
A good paddle shift car is just as fun, and winning is much more fun than losing.
@@Valorius Honestly...Winning isn't really that fun....If you really want to "win" just trade it all away for an EV...To me, winning is nothing more than an ego contest.
If you want to have fun...I don't know, theres a huge difference between nailing that rev match, and feeling the car respond directly to your hands and feet...compared to hitting a flappy paddle and letting the computers do the rest.
In a proper dog-box sequential where the gears literally slam in, ok that's a different story...but paddle shifts in modern cars are nothing more than automatics with some extra buttons.
@@skifree0 slightly disagree tho because an ev only "wins" against a good manual half the time (i.e usually on the street, light to light, under 75mph ect). A good dct, which is an automatic, will outperform a manual both on the street and highway speeds AND on track every time, while also offering good fun in the twisty bits in its own way. So if you dont care about winning thats fine, but if someone is concerned with being competitive on track you would pretty much have to get a dct, rather than an ev or a manual.
@@Valorius "winning is much more fun" -- Winning what? It's only faster in a drag race. Get on a twisty road, and the automatic becomes a liability.
@@mountainhobo
A good automatic with paddles can be very fun in the Twisties. The ZF-8HP in my car is fantastic.
FAVOURITE MOTOR REVIEW CHANNEL BY FAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Huh…I got the manual version of an Elantra N. Love it. Lighter, super engaging and fun (albeit slower in a straight line). But now need to go back and study those ratios and curves.
"If you bought a sports car with an automatic, you deserve to suffer"
Liked and subbed
Same with Jeep Wranglers. Y’all look so cool and carefree driving with your left leg hanging out the door but we know you have the wimpy automatic.
I've always thought my manual Cayman had non optimal gearing... Now I know.
Well, it would be interesting to actually look into it. He specifically chose the S model of the 911 because the ratios are different (more gears in the PDK allow this) but in the base 911 auto v manual the ratios are the same. He just chose a car that fit his narrative.
@@JacobMueller The 992 Carrera base may only come in PDK. At lease on the configurator there's no manual option. Only for the S version. You're right that they're the same ratios for the 991 carreras but no one really complained much about long gearing in those ones that I can remember. People do however constantly complain about the Cayman gearing which is longer ratios for manual on all caymans. What is the true reason? I don't know.
I especially agree with the closing statement
cool - thx 4 info Jason :)
Buy a dct to race, and a manual to be one with the car...
Why not get a manual transmission to be one with the car and win a race ( if possible)? That would be the ultimate joy in car culture (in my opinion).
Tbh modern “sports cars” aren’t all that exciting enough to warrant a manual transmission, most have had the excitement engineered out to make them idiot proof, plus the manuals feel too clunky and sloppy because of the emissions designed throttles that it almost is reminiscent of an old automatic transmission. Instead of feeling one with the car you just feel like you’re having a shouting match with it. Modern manuals pale in comparison to an old school manual sports car from the 60s-90s, and really, the older the car the more raw it really is. I’d take a modern Porsche or similar car with a DCT any day of the week, at least then I can get the instant shifts and it still at least gives the experience of a sequential box like a race car. I have a Triumph spitfire, though it may be as slow as a dog, the handling and unmolested power train make the experience like a dance or as if the car is an extension of your self and make you feel like a race car driver from the 50s/60s. Modern cars may be fast, but they truly aren’t all that fun to drive.
@@BazzookieI love my s2000. New enough to be reliable and that I don't have to mess with carburettors and chokes, but it still has a mechanical throttle linkage, a low volume intake manifold, a super lightweight flywheel and a shifter that goes straight into the transmission. It's so much more responsive and communicative than the 2010s era manual econobox I had before it.
@@Biriadan the S2000 is a great car, falls before the cutoff on when cars started to become too modern. It’s honestly sad that manuals have been completely molested by emissions standards and there’s seemingly no real demand to actually develop improvements like how manufacturers figured out how to work around emissions standards for horsepower in the past.
Or get the manual to win races and have fun
I knew it was down to gear ratios, even before the video got into it.
Great article
I had a BMW 540 6speed and installed a diff from an automatic. Quite a noticeable difference! Much more fun
Curious how this stretches out internationally. Although "driving" in the UK routinely means "driving a manual", it's not like autos are unheard of; I wonder if the same gear-length disparity exists among UK versions of these cars.
Kind of makes the whole dieselgate thing feel less insane. They just took it one step further and just programmed a mode for the car to enter when it recognized its being tested.
Cant blame them for learning to play the BS game they're forced to play.
Harley Davidson basically does the same thing. When they leave the factory, they run so lean, they can barely idle, the dealers then tune them on sight to run properly. Skirts emissions massively.
@@MattH-wg7ou Never understood the class action claims for the car owners. Even though VW was looking out for their interests, the move was ultimately pro-consumer because they got better performing cars.
@@samwhaleIV Fr, when I saw those headlines I was kicking myself for NOT getting a VW, it was better advertising than anything American I’ve seen in awhile! If it negatively impacts performance in any way, I don’t want it on my car plain and simple
@@samwhaleIV "b-but... the environment!"
not like China building 100 or so new coal plants
or just cars that are 20 yrs old or more already driving on the streets and having WAY higher fuel consumption and higher output of NOx ETC
Thank you for saying this!!!
I like this guy. I never sat this about anybody on youtube.
But a manual is just way more fun.
That's irrelevant to the EPA.
@@SHOdown13 Not if my car is old enough. No emissions requirements for classic cars. 6 speed manual=max fun!!
An there it is. Only toke almost 20 years until I see/heard someone say it.
Real drivers use 3 pedals
@@RafitoOoO Yeah, that's why we see automatics in almost every race we can think of!
On the other hand, manuals are mostly 6-speed nowadays, including my '04 Sharan minivan, when the DCT or DSG offering the 7 and even 8 gears, that are shorter *and* lightning fast by the gear changing, less than a half second. By this time the manual gear can only be disengaged. And i kinda love the OPF exhaust sound too. Is something wrong with me?
learned something new about my miata; nice i like it
Very interesting 👍
It's how quick it shifts and the amount of gears.....
This reminds me of how Subaru execs were saying in order to get a faster 0-60 on the new BRZ you need the manual since its so much quicker than the awful automatic
Take that numbers freaks
Facts. My regeared 5.0 Mustang end up destroying the 10 spd 5.0 0-60 time
THANK you!
Yes, quite possibly...however, I don't have stickers (or number placards) on my car so I don't have to win. But when I drive my WRX, I want to drive, and when I shift (using that third pedal), I feel like a winner and I'm involved in the process. And that makes me feel good. I'll be 2nd or 3rd all day long and keep my 3rd pedal. Thank you. 🏁
This explains why 6MT Mk7 GTI goes to freaking 80mph in 2nd gear...
WTF? The third gear for my used to be 2015 honda fit was about 80mph
1st was 30mph, 2nd was 55mph... 4th is 105mph.
I don’t know about this Jason guy. He seems pretty Shifty. 🥸
Woah, i thought this was adam sandler.
He's gonna get shifty in here!
@@hojnikb He's more like discounted Adam Sandler.
go to bed
Something cool back in the early 2000’s was the 03 Z06 Corvette I just bought has a manual with LOWER gears than the standard Corvette to improve acceleration! (Besides the additional 55 hp)😀
You can never go wrong with a C5 Z06 I daily drive one.
You really do know it all, man
"Conventional" automatics that utilize a torque converter also multiply torque when they stall, known as flash, and if the valve body is calibrated correctly, with a high stall converter, will out-accellerate a manual transmission, however, this comes at the cost of reduced every day drivability.
i had a 103hp manual car before and my new 240hp auto shoots of the line way slower for the first few yards. it's really sad.
@@GraveUypo the manual version of my car had a 4:1 final drive, the auto a 2.27:1. And its turbocharged,so it's no drag racer.
I have owned an mx5 and love the engagement a manual gives you. But I now drive an automatic and don’t want to go back. It’s just so much easier and faster.
It feels like now a days whenever there is a car question like this, regulation seems like it's always the answer lol
Was happy with the conclusion at the end 😏always manual.