Didn’t George do the same thing with the Dothraki language? I know Dothraki was created for the show, but I’m not sure if George made it up or if he had a linguist to do it for him.
@@MWolfe1080 no i believe it was a contest and someone else came up with it. I think theres an interview of sorts with the man who made up all the languages
To be honest I was kind of hoping oh George did make up the damn language that explain why it’s takin so long to write the winds of winter. How do you make up a language anyway. I understand how a language would evolve Kind of hot Latin evolved into the romantic languages and how eventually I think Spanish and English will be one language. I think it’ll be Spanish-English Persian and Mandarin in the next hundred years 200 probably. Hell am I kidding we won’t even be around in 200 years probably
Tolkien won this battle before it even began, taking the one ring off in his intro and putting it in his pocket because he knew he didn't need it for this battle.
Just want to point out that Tolkein didn't Modernize orcs. He CREATED them. People argue that he didn't he just simply fused trolls and goblins to make them. But the term orc didn't exist except as a term for demon I believe. But Tolkein wasn't talking about demons he was talking about large goblin like creatures that were fearsome like trolls. So yeah it is a sort of fusion but it still a creation.
I think the biggest flex for him silmarillions. Shit that Tolkien just wrote to solidify the backstory and setting of the world for his story, sold enough to support his family. Not even stuff meant to be a story on its own, but just the fucking setting material for his own reference, sells for huge numbers. That's badass.
It's the other way around, actually. The Silmarillion material was Tolkien's life's work, worked on in various forms and drafts beginning in the late 1910s. He borrowed setting elements for the Hobbit, which was originally a stand-alone story, but when his publisher asked him to write a sequel to the Hobbit, the Lord of the Rings ended up borrowing much more heavily from the Silm, and so Tolkien integrated them all into the same setting.
I was talking to a teenager once about Lord of the Rings and the kid said, "There are too many fantasy cliches in this book." I then had to explain to him that the reason they are cliches is because Tolkein did it first, and his book was so amazing everyone else has been copying him for 80 years. The "cut you like my teeth on Beauty and the Beast" line is a reference to the fact that George R. R. Martin's first big break as a writer was producing scripts for the 80s TV show "Beauty and the Beast" which starred a very young Linda Hamilton (in her first major role) and a likewise young Ron Perlman. So Martin "cut his teeth" on Beauty and the Beast.
Wow, talk about being a victim of your own success. "Everyone copied my work until it became cliche." Tolkein has no shortage of company there. Just ask Harry Houdini.
see, the only reason i even know about the 80s show Beauty and the Beast is because I’ve read Textual Poachers, a fan studies book by Henry Jenkins, and it was mentioned in that. i’m pretty passionate about fan works but especially fan fiction, because I believe it’s the center of how culture is created and spread. people often start writing in fandoms that already exist, then branch out from there. or they create culture just out of that fandom itself, because sometimes borrowing from others is enough to express their own feelings or opinions, and that creates its own culture within fan communities that exist already. so, I read fan studies as well to learn more about fan culture and communities.
So some stuff you missed, "I cut my teeth in the trenches of the somme" J. R. R. Tolkien was a soilder in the British military during WW1 and fought in arguable the bloodiest battle in the entire war, the battle of the somme. During this he came up with the idea for the lord of the rings. "Don't believe me, ask Led Zeppelin" Led Zeppelin loved lord of the rings and actually said it was the inspiration for a few of their songs. This battle was basically George playing in Tolkien's world.
They made a movie about his service in WW1 as well, basically drew parallels between the things he saw and experienced in the trenches, even having him see a dragon like Smaug breathing fire only to get woken up from what he was thinking and realize he was staring down Germans carrying flamethrowers. Really awesome film about how everything he went through went into his work to help him cope with the horror that was trench fighting.
@@magatsu_man9711 "everything he went through went into his work to help him cope" A lot of the best works ever made in History were created this way. Tolkien and his war horrors into Lord of the Rings. H.P. Lovecraft and his crippling Axiety creating the entire Cosmic Horror and Fear of the Unknown genre into existence. And not just writing, but lots of artists as well, such as one of history's famous painter Vincent Van Gogh, and even Ludwig van Beethoven who had a bad life and dealt by pouring himself into music instead to distract himself, and even when that music was destroying his hearing and making him nearly completely deaf he still bottles up all his issues and put his effort solely into music to distract himself from the horrors of everything else in his life. Using your bad experiences, and turning them into something good, something amazing, as we've seen in history, has created some of the greatest works of art, books, movies, TV shows, Paintings, video games, and Music we still experience and show to the next generation throughout history.
LARPing also covers things like war reenactment and similar things. So Tolkein is basically saying that he served in one of the deadliest battles in human history, while Martin basically played pretend military during Vietnam.
It’s worse than that; George R. R. Martin was a conscientious objector during Vietnam so he didn’t even serve during the war (a fact he is actually pretty proud of)
The Led Zeppelin reference is because several of their songs contain references to The Lord of the Rings, including "The Battle of Evermore" which a lot of Zep/LOTR fans believe is written about the Battle of the Pelennor Fields.
Ramble on is another one with very blatant LotR references. "'T was in the darkest depths of Mordor I met a girl so fair But Gollum, and the evil one Crept up and slipped away with her"
The "more rock and roll than you've ever been, don't believe me, just ask Led Zeppelin" is referencing the fact that Led Zeppelin actually wrote a few songs that reference or were clearly inspired by Tolkien's books. The songs "Misty Mountain Hop", "Battle of Evermore", and "Ramble On" are all clearly Lord of the Rings influenced.
@@whatitdodave Annie Lennox did an amazing song called "Into the West", with very clear references to the source material of descriptions of what it looks like going "into the West" to the Undying Lands.
If you look at some of the lyrics for "Ramble On" for example: "In the darkest depths of Mordor, I met a girl so fair. But Gollum, and the evil Lord, Crept up and slipped away with her, her, her, yeah yeah." In the early days of metal, when it was called heavy metal, they were all Tolkien fans, not just Led Zep, but Metallica and Motorhead, too. And one more bit of trivia. Sir Christopher Lee not only met Tolkien in person, but Lee put out a metal album at age 90 (that's not a typo). LOTR rocks!
GRRM did more than just write A Song of Ice and Fire. I'm not putting him at the same level than Tolkien, but the guy did some excellent writing before this incomplete saga. He's one of the best of his generation, that's for sure. Far from just being a "jester".
Tolkien also mentions C. S. Lewis, the author of the Narnia books. They were good friends and (maybe) challenged each other to write a better fantasy novel. Obviously Lord of the Rings is more well-known, but Narnia is pretty popular in many circles too. Both works are also heavy on Christian symbolism
To reinforce your point irt CS Lewis: his "Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe" and the Character Aslan is a *direct* Christ allegory: He is the Lion that lays down as a lamb for the sake of his errant follower... :)
@@paulh5984 doesn’t the series end with Asian taking the worthy to another world that turns out to be the real one he created, while Narnia was basically a beta version? Kinda how many Christians view the earthly life and Paradise
Tolkien and C.S. Lewis weren't just friends. They were part of a Circle of Authors called "The Inklings". Basically, an informal book club of authors. And I believe Tolkien and Lewis had one of their kids in the group as well. So Tolkien literally could have called a full on Fellowship of authors to step in with this battle had he wanted to.
For reference, a lot of the early Dungeons & Dragons material drafted by Gary Gygax was inspired by Tolkien's works - elves, halflings, and dwarves just to start. Were it not for Tolkien, there would be no World of Warcraft or other fantasy video games as we know them today because he was the one who made the genre more mainstream. He essentially paved the way for guys like Martin in the modern day, so Martin's biting the hand that is letting him be fed well. The reason the LotR trilogy IS a trilogy is because the damn manuscript was too much for the typesetter to get out in one shot. They had to break it up into thirds just to get the book published. The Goonies reference is a direct smack at Sean Astin who played Samwise in the LotR movie trilogy since he also played the main character in the Goonies movie back when he was a young teen. Also, the verse about the GoT series being under 50 Shades was a direct clapback because both books are loaded with plenty of explicit material. Tolkien was saying that he didn't need to include sex because his books are best sellers of the highest order. The irony here is that Martin's series was beat in the rankings by a FANFIC trilogy - because 50 Shades was originally written as a Twilight fanfic and they literally changed the names so it could be published.
I also think that whole "ditch the goonies" line was a dig a Tolkien; because there is quite a distinct lack of female characters who a role in the stories. Only 4 come to mind, and one of them in a spider demon so I'm not sure that counts.
In the final bar there was also the first movie/book title its just a little harder to spot since its in two captions "You cant reach this FELLOW, SHIT im too towering" As in fellowship so yeah all three books
"I'll cut you, like my teeth on Beauty and the Beast" The metaphor of cutting teeth refers to how someone starts a particular venture, and GRRM's first writing gig was on a TV show based on Beauty and the Beast long before the Disney movie.
Thank you for explaining that one I really was confused by it. I think I do recall something about a TV adaptation of it that got dropped or didn't last long I don't remember.
In Tolkien’s last round he said “you can’t reach this Fellow, Shit (Fellowship of the Ring reference) I’m Too Towering (The Two Towers reference) and every time I battle it’s Return of the King (Return of the King direct reference). That’s all 2 Lord of the Rings books. Also, Lef Zeppelin have stated many times that a lot of their songs are heavily inspired by the Lord of the Rings books. Tolkien wins no contest for me.
Sure rap against the guy who invented some languages for fun, then wrote the books to bring them to life this will go over well. Jesus I haven't seen anything that lethal since I killed my clan
Not only did Led Zeppelin do songs based off of Tolkien lore, there's a metal band called Blind Guardian that did an entire album based off of The Silmarillion called "Nightfall in Middle-Earth". Bands like Battlelore, Nightwish, Megadeth, Rush, Wind Rose, and more have done songs or albums based off of Tolkien's lore. And there are plenty more. Also, pretty much every fantasy author has elements within their own works that stem from Tolkien. He's basically the godfather of modern fantasy literature. It'd be damned difficult to write within the fantasy genre and NOT include something modernized or pioneered by Tolkien.
Not only Led Zeppelin were inspired by Tolkien, but also Black Sabbath, Blind Guardian. and, believe me, even Christopher Freaking "Count Saruman Dooku" Lee on his musical projects. Well, there is a bunch of metal bands out there like Amon Amarth and Gorgoroth, but there are in another category. Great content, lad!
There is no doubt in my military mind, that Tolkien dominated this battle. Martin had a few bars, 1 good diss and that's about it. Tolkien countered everything Martin said with incredible savagery. Martin had 1 good flow, but Tolkien ruled the flow game without talking fast. Those miniscule pauses he used in his flows let him captivate and dominate over Martin. It's not always about word rhymes and speed of delivery Dave. Sometimes it's hidden. I did enjoy your reaction though. Keep on keeping on 👍
Led Zeppelin's Stairway to Heaven was about the stairway into Mordor that Frodo and Sam met the giant spider. They used Tolkien as an influence a few times.
the last line actually gave his 3 lord of the ring "u cant reach this fellow shit" refers to fellowship of the ring "im too towering" refers to the two towers and "every time i battle its return of the king" refers to the return of the king the first one was quite hidden but its good tho
"You can't reach this fellow/shit" is a reference to Fellowship of the Ring, so he put a reference to all 3 parts of LotR in sequence into his last lines. Led Zeppelin was referencing LotR in some of their songs, like 'Misty Mountain Top', 'The Battle of Evermore', 'Ramble On', and more, already 30 years before the movies.
Aye dave! Im new to your channel but i have been going through and watching all your videos since last night your just too funny! Keep up the great work!!
To "Cut one's teeth" is a phrase for "getting started with". So he's 'cutting him' like he did his teeth on the first project he worked on? Edit: 1987 Beauty and the Beast TV series - that appears to be one of his pre-ASOIAF projects.
Led Zeppelin have a song called Ramble on about Lord of the Rings. Also the hand shape he uses when he says you even stole my R R, is the letter r in American Sign Language.
Martin used to write for the Beauty and the Beast v show. Cutting your teeth is a term meaning "learning your craft, or honing it. " A lot of Led Zeppelin songs were based on Tolkien's work.
Also in his last line "you can't reach this fellow shit, I'm Two Towering, every time I battle its Return of the King" is every film in lotr in order 😀 Fellowship Two Towers Return of the King
So glad of who you picked as the winner. If you'd picked the other one I'd have had to stop watching your stuff. lol. Just kidding. Love your reactions! ♥
Geiorge RR Martin wrote the screenplay for the 90's Beauty and the Beast mini-series, starring Ron Pearlman. edit: Also Led Zeppelin references Lord of the Rings in the song "Ramble On" Gollum is even named in the climax of the song, "Misty Mountain Hop" references The Hobbit" the Battle of Evermore" also makes reference to books.
Martin “LARPed” as a conscientious objector on alternative duty, he served in Viet Nam, in uniform, but kept to administrative and other non combat jobs.
"Beauty and the Beast" was a reference to the fact that Martin was a writer on the Beauty and the Beast TV show back in the 80s. It had nothing to do with the Disney version.
"You can't reach this fellow shit, I'm too Towering every time I battle its return of the King." Fellowship Two Towers Return of the King. 3 references, 1 verse.
Good and close match but Tolkien won it for me simply because while George was spitting fire he didn't really dismantle much that Tolkien told him, where Tolkien had both spitting fire bars as well as dismantled and threw back a lot of the bars that George used against him.
LARP is the things clowns do instead of being in the actual military. As a Marine, I laugh at those clowns who play all those “roll playing games”. Those were fun when you were 12
This is great... for me this is close, but I think it goes to Tolken 😎 please don't mind any spelling errors I make... I enjoyed this one 😊 Take care Dave and have fun with your reaction videos 😌
alternative service is like being your dads helper under the car.. if shit hits the fan you wont catch it but you can say "i was there!" basically he said he wasnt a real soldier and doesnt deserve his honor
you cant reach this fellow, shit (fellow ship of the ring) im too towering (two towers) and every time i rap its return of the king (return of the king) every time i here that line it amazes me how they were able to so seamlessly fit all 3 lord of the rings movies into such a short amount of words
Actually I recall hearing somewhere that Orcs (or some other fantasy race Tolkein popularized) didn't exist before he wrote it. Might have been a TIFO or Fact Fiend video or something.
George R.R. Martin's big break in writing was the scripts for a live action TV show called "Beauty and the Beast." Which had cat-like superhero and a beautiful DA.
from another comment, Led Zep was inspired by LoTR to create their songs and thats what the bar is to include idk one of the most prolific bands in american history
The Beauty and the Beast thing was because George wrote on an old 80's soap opera called Beauty and the Beast, I think it either was one of his first, or his actual first writing credit. So he cut his teeth (started) on Beauty and the Beast :P At least if I'm remembering my trivia right, please, correct me if I'm wrong.
Actually the Led Zeppelin bar is because there are several lord of the rings references in their Led Zeppelin 3 and Led Zeppelin 4 albums. Particularly their most famous song stairway to heaven. Both Tolkien and Martin are authors whose work was turned into a series and movies. You’d have to read a Tolkien book to understand a few of these bars. He would literally paint the setting with descriptions of every sound and color the character was around.. like a play write but books
A few other things that you missed- Martin was a writer on the Beauty and the Beast live action TV show, which was about a young man who had facial features that made him resemble a lion, so he, his father, and a small group of outcast people created a literal underground commune in the sewers below NYC, and their adventures with the surface dwellers and especially Beast's (named Vincent) girlfriend, one of Manhattan's Assistant DAs. The last lines for Tolkien referenced all three movies/books "Fellow - shit ... Too Towering. .... Return of the King." "Larp ing thru Vietnam" is especially ferocious, since a conscientious objector must still serve in uniform, but can fill desk jobs and other non combat rolls far from the front lines. So in other words, Martin got to dress up and play soldier, while Tolkien barely survived the muck and the horrors of the trenches. When Tolkien first pops up, it was him walking around invisible and then taking off the Ring. While Tolkien is calling Martin out, He Martin is reading from a big red leather looking bound portfolio book...the Red Book of the West March. When Martin is talking about boobies, he had one of the Goonies (Sean Astin/Sam Gamgee first role as a child actor). Tolkien for the win. I'm biased, but I think
Led Zeppelin and pretty much every Power Metal band that ever existed did at least one song paying homage to J.R.R. Tolkien. Even Sabaton did a song called "Shadows" on their Metalizer album about the Ring Wraiths in LotR.
fun fact for mr jesse, the game of fire and ice aka game of thrones ius HEAVILY influenced by the War of the Roses, (The best rose the red rose won) it was red rose (heros) vs white rose (scum) and anyway the Red wedding is based on somethign that actually happened the Black dinner
G.R.R. Martin was a writer for the TV series Beauty and the Beast. And he was a conscientious objector during the Vietnam war, while Tolkien served as a British officer in WW1. Led Zepplin wrote songs about Tolkien's Middle Earth back in the seventies.
Okay, I'm late to the comments, but it looks like nobody noticed that the *first word* was a reference. "Brace yourself"… "braces" is the English term for what Americans call "suspenders", and George R. R. Martin is known for always wearing them, like he is in this vid.
A LOT of heavy and dark metal bands, if you read the lyrics are very much rooted in fantasy. Many many huge metal bands are big fans and take inspiration from Tolkien's world.
"I'll cut you like my teeth" Means to get experience on something, referring to the fact he started getting popular for writing Beauty and the Beast on tv.
'cutting your teeth' Get one's first experience by doing, or learn early in life, as in I cut my teeth on this kind of layout or He cut his eyeteeth on magazine editing. This term alludes to the literal verb to cut teeth, meaning “to have teeth first emerge through a baby's gums,” a usage dating from the late 1600s.
My ERB reaction playlist!
ruclips.net/p/PLG217Y9Pofu6dn2PNbn71uh36sa2Hmjf6
@whatitdodave LARP is Live Action Roleplaying!
"I'm going to get myself in a battle of lyrics with a guy who invents languages for fun. This will go well.'
yeah Tolkien was pretty fucking amazing
Didn’t George do the same thing with the Dothraki language? I know Dothraki was created for the show, but I’m not sure if George made it up or if he had a linguist to do it for him.
@@MWolfe1080 no i believe it was a contest and someone else came up with it. I think theres an interview of sorts with the man who made up all the languages
@@MWolfe1080 David Peterson is credited with creating the language
To be honest I was kind of hoping oh George did make up the damn language that explain why it’s takin so long to write the winds of winter. How do you make up a language anyway. I understand how a language would evolve Kind of hot Latin evolved into the romantic languages and how eventually I think Spanish and English will be one language. I think it’ll be Spanish-English Persian and Mandarin in the next hundred years 200 probably. Hell am I kidding we won’t even be around in 200 years probably
Tolkien won this battle before it even began, taking the one ring off in his intro and putting it in his pocket because he knew he didn't need it for this battle.
Just want to point out that Tolkein didn't Modernize orcs. He CREATED them. People argue that he didn't he just simply fused trolls and goblins to make them. But the term orc didn't exist except as a term for demon I believe. But Tolkein wasn't talking about demons he was talking about large goblin like creatures that were fearsome like trolls. So yeah it is a sort of fusion but it still a creation.
Don't forget, he CREATED ENTS AND HOBBITS.
They are his, top to bottom.
The only Orc prior to LOTR was a sea monster off of Scotland, where the Orca gets its name, and Orcre, a rare variant name for an ogre.
I think the biggest flex for him silmarillions. Shit that Tolkien just wrote to solidify the backstory and setting of the world for his story, sold enough to support his family.
Not even stuff meant to be a story on its own, but just the fucking setting material for his own reference, sells for huge numbers. That's badass.
It's the other way around, actually. The Silmarillion material was Tolkien's life's work, worked on in various forms and drafts beginning in the late 1910s. He borrowed setting elements for the Hobbit, which was originally a stand-alone story, but when his publisher asked him to write a sequel to the Hobbit, the Lord of the Rings ended up borrowing much more heavily from the Silm, and so Tolkien integrated them all into the same setting.
@@IamesChosen THAT is the real flex for Tolkien... the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings were SIDE GIGS.
I was talking to a teenager once about Lord of the Rings and the kid said, "There are too many fantasy cliches in this book."
I then had to explain to him that the reason they are cliches is because Tolkein did it first, and his book was so amazing everyone else has been copying him for 80 years.
The "cut you like my teeth on Beauty and the Beast" line is a reference to the fact that George R. R. Martin's first big break as a writer was producing scripts for the 80s TV show "Beauty and the Beast" which starred a very young Linda Hamilton (in her first major role) and a likewise young Ron Perlman. So Martin "cut his teeth" on Beauty and the Beast.
Wow, talk about being a victim of your own success. "Everyone copied my work until it became cliche."
Tolkein has no shortage of company there. Just ask Harry Houdini.
@The Bog 'Ole Pretty good, my brother! Pretty good!
see, the only reason i even know about the 80s show Beauty and the Beast is because I’ve read Textual Poachers, a fan studies book by Henry Jenkins, and it was mentioned in that.
i’m pretty passionate about fan works but especially fan fiction, because I believe it’s the center of how culture is created and spread. people often start writing in fandoms that already exist, then branch out from there. or they create culture just out of that fandom itself, because sometimes borrowing from others is enough to express their own feelings or opinions, and that creates its own culture within fan communities that exist already. so, I read fan studies as well to learn more about fan culture and communities.
So some stuff you missed, "I cut my teeth in the trenches of the somme"
J. R. R. Tolkien was a soilder in the British military during WW1 and fought in arguable the bloodiest battle in the entire war, the battle of the somme.
During this he came up with the idea for the lord of the rings.
"Don't believe me, ask Led Zeppelin"
Led Zeppelin loved lord of the rings and actually said it was the inspiration for a few of their songs.
This battle was basically George playing in Tolkien's world.
They made a movie about his service in WW1 as well, basically drew parallels between the things he saw and experienced in the trenches, even having him see a dragon like Smaug breathing fire only to get woken up from what he was thinking and realize he was staring down Germans carrying flamethrowers. Really awesome film about how everything he went through went into his work to help him cope with the horror that was trench fighting.
@@magatsu_man9711 "everything he went through went into his work to help him cope"
A lot of the best works ever made in History were created this way. Tolkien and his war horrors into Lord of the Rings. H.P. Lovecraft and his crippling Axiety creating the entire Cosmic Horror and Fear of the Unknown genre into existence. And not just writing, but lots of artists as well, such as one of history's famous painter Vincent Van Gogh, and even Ludwig van Beethoven who had a bad life and dealt by pouring himself into music instead to distract himself, and even when that music was destroying his hearing and making him nearly completely deaf he still bottles up all his issues and put his effort solely into music to distract himself from the horrors of everything else in his life.
Using your bad experiences, and turning them into something good, something amazing, as we've seen in history, has created some of the greatest works of art, books, movies, TV shows, Paintings, video games, and Music we still experience and show to the next generation throughout history.
In the same phrase he misses Martin's big break was HBOs Beauty and the Beast show "cut his teeth".
@@magatsu_man9711 tell me the name of that movie please
@@dgriffinctc3834 I think it’s actually called “Tolkien” it was made in 2019
LARPing also covers things like war reenactment and similar things. So Tolkein is basically saying that he served in one of the deadliest battles in human history, while Martin basically played pretend military during Vietnam.
It’s worse than that; George R. R. Martin was a conscientious objector during Vietnam so he didn’t even serve during the war (a fact he is actually pretty proud of)
The Led Zeppelin reference is because several of their songs contain references to The Lord of the Rings, including "The Battle of Evermore" which a lot of Zep/LOTR fans believe is written about the Battle of the Pelennor Fields.
Ramble on is another one with very blatant LotR references.
"'T was in the darkest depths of Mordor
I met a girl so fair
But Gollum, and the evil one
Crept up and slipped away with her"
Let's not forget "Misty Mountain Hop"
Robert Plant's dog was named Strider.
The immigrant song references Mordor
The "more rock and roll than you've ever been, don't believe me, just ask Led Zeppelin" is referencing the fact that Led Zeppelin actually wrote a few songs that reference or were clearly inspired by Tolkien's books. The songs "Misty Mountain Hop", "Battle of Evermore", and "Ramble On" are all clearly Lord of the Rings influenced.
I thought they also made a song for the movie as well.
@@whatitdodave Actually they did not. It was Annie Lennox from the Eurythmics who wrote a song for the third movie
@@whatitdodave Annie Lennox did an amazing song called "Into the West", with very clear references to the source material of descriptions of what it looks like going "into the West" to the Undying Lands.
Misty Mountain hop actually isn't about Lord of the Rings, it just has the name
If you look at some of the lyrics for "Ramble On" for example:
"In the darkest depths of Mordor,
I met a girl so fair.
But Gollum, and the evil Lord,
Crept up and slipped away with her, her, her, yeah yeah."
In the early days of metal, when it was called heavy metal, they were all Tolkien fans, not just Led Zep, but Metallica and Motorhead, too.
And one more bit of trivia. Sir Christopher Lee not only met Tolkien in person, but Lee put out a metal album at age 90 (that's not a typo). LOTR rocks!
Tolkien is essentially the creator of the modern fantasy genre, as a result this battle seems quite unbalanced to me.
High fantasy, at least.
Tolkien made the sandbox Martin is playing in
@@littlekuribohimposte yeah
He invented ORCS... that is just crazy
ORC was a dig at the Oxford Rowing Club, The Rowing Club and The Literature Club had a fued that was famous at Oxford.
If it wasn't for Tolkien Martin wouldn't have had a premise for his books that he still hasn't finished.
He’s still working on books,scripts and movies
GRRM is a jester in Tolkien's court. The dude that hasn't even finished his series can never be held on the same level as the master.
It's like saying Ovechkin is better then Gretzky, 1. It's flat out wrong, 2. Dudes still playing so we'll see his stats when he retires.
GRRM did more than just write A Song of Ice and Fire. I'm not putting him at the same level than Tolkien, but the guy did some excellent writing before this incomplete saga. He's one of the best of his generation, that's for sure. Far from just being a "jester".
Tolkien has more books in the last decade than Martin, and the guy has been dead for more than 50 years
Tolkien also mentions C. S. Lewis, the author of the Narnia books. They were good friends and (maybe) challenged each other to write a better fantasy novel. Obviously Lord of the Rings is more well-known, but Narnia is pretty popular in many circles too. Both works are also heavy on Christian symbolism
To reinforce your point irt CS Lewis: his "Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe" and the Character Aslan is a *direct* Christ allegory: He is the Lion that lays down as a lamb for the sake of his errant follower... :)
@@paulh5984 doesn’t the series end with Asian taking the worthy to another world that turns out to be the real one he created, while Narnia was basically a beta version? Kinda how many Christians view the earthly life and Paradise
@@artembentsionov it has been 20 years since I read the books, so details are fuzzy. 😀
Tolkien and C.S. Lewis weren't just friends. They were part of a Circle of Authors called "The Inklings". Basically, an informal book club of authors. And I believe Tolkien and Lewis had one of their kids in the group as well. So Tolkien literally could have called a full on Fellowship of authors to step in with this battle had he wanted to.
@@paulh5984 Aslan isn't an allegory for Jesus, he literally *_is_* Jesus in Narnia
The larp'd his way through vietnam was saying he didn't actually do any "real service" while Tolkien himself was in the trenches on the frontlines
For reference, a lot of the early Dungeons & Dragons material drafted by Gary Gygax was inspired by Tolkien's works - elves, halflings, and dwarves just to start. Were it not for Tolkien, there would be no World of Warcraft or other fantasy video games as we know them today because he was the one who made the genre more mainstream. He essentially paved the way for guys like Martin in the modern day, so Martin's biting the hand that is letting him be fed well.
The reason the LotR trilogy IS a trilogy is because the damn manuscript was too much for the typesetter to get out in one shot. They had to break it up into thirds just to get the book published.
The Goonies reference is a direct smack at Sean Astin who played Samwise in the LotR movie trilogy since he also played the main character in the Goonies movie back when he was a young teen.
Also, the verse about the GoT series being under 50 Shades was a direct clapback because both books are loaded with plenty of explicit material. Tolkien was saying that he didn't need to include sex because his books are best sellers of the highest order. The irony here is that Martin's series was beat in the rankings by a FANFIC trilogy - because 50 Shades was originally written as a Twilight fanfic and they literally changed the names so it could be published.
I also think that whole "ditch the goonies" line was a dig a Tolkien; because there is quite a distinct lack of female characters who a role in the stories. Only 4 come to mind, and one of them in a spider demon so I'm not sure that counts.
In the final bar there was also the first movie/book title its just a little harder to spot since its in two captions
"You cant reach this FELLOW,
SHIT im too towering"
As in fellowship so yeah all three books
That one is a double since Tolkien was a fellow at two different colleges.
"I'll cut you, like my teeth on Beauty and the Beast"
The metaphor of cutting teeth refers to how someone starts a particular venture, and GRRM's first writing gig was on a TV show based on Beauty and the Beast long before the Disney movie.
Thank you for explaining that one I really was confused by it. I think I do recall something about a TV adaptation of it that got dropped or didn't last long I don't remember.
Fun fact, that TV show starred Ron "Hellboy" Perlman as the Beast.
The old Beauty and the Beast series was great. The Beast was our favorite Hellboy actor too.
@@LazerWulf And Linda "Sarah Connor" Hamilton as Beauty
In Tolkien’s last round he said “you can’t reach this Fellow, Shit (Fellowship of the Ring reference) I’m Too Towering (The Two Towers reference) and every time I battle it’s Return of the King (Return of the King direct reference). That’s all 2 Lord of the Rings books. Also, Lef Zeppelin have stated many times that a lot of their songs are heavily inspired by the Lord of the Rings books. Tolkien wins no contest for me.
3*
I need an ERB Reaction playlist pls.
Tolkien won.
He always wins.
I put my playlist at the end of my videos
Sure rap against the guy who invented some languages for fun, then wrote the books to bring them to life this will go over well. Jesus I haven't seen anything that lethal since I killed my clan
"'You can't reach this Fellow-- Shit! I'm Too-Towering! And everytime I battle: It's Return of The King!"
That's my favorite bat
Not only did Led Zeppelin do songs based off of Tolkien lore, there's a metal band called Blind Guardian that did an entire album based off of The Silmarillion called "Nightfall in Middle-Earth". Bands like Battlelore, Nightwish, Megadeth, Rush, Wind Rose, and more have done songs or albums based off of Tolkien's lore. And there are plenty more. Also, pretty much every fantasy author has elements within their own works that stem from Tolkien. He's basically the godfather of modern fantasy literature. It'd be damned difficult to write within the fantasy genre and NOT include something modernized or pioneered by Tolkien.
They may not mention this, but Tolkien also used to mess with his neighbor by dressing up as a viking (complete with battle axe)
Not only Led Zeppelin were inspired by Tolkien, but also Black Sabbath, Blind Guardian. and, believe me, even Christopher Freaking "Count Saruman Dooku" Lee on his musical projects. Well, there is a bunch of metal bands out there like Amon Amarth and Gorgoroth, but there are in another category. Great content, lad!
There is no doubt in my military mind, that Tolkien dominated this battle. Martin had a few bars, 1 good diss and that's about it. Tolkien countered everything Martin said with incredible savagery. Martin had 1 good flow, but Tolkien ruled the flow game without talking fast. Those miniscule pauses he used in his flows let him captivate and dominate over Martin.
It's not always about word rhymes and speed of delivery Dave. Sometimes it's hidden. I did enjoy your reaction though. Keep on keeping on 👍
George Martin wrote for CBS's 1985-1986 television program, Beauty and the Beast.
Led Zeppelin's Stairway to Heaven was about the stairway into Mordor that Frodo and Sam met the giant spider. They used Tolkien as an influence a few times.
did you catch how J RR Tolkien entered the match? he took off the one ring!
They also should have capitalized Fellow in that last line. "Fellow shit" (Fellowship)
Dave doing a lot of work out here with the videos much love for the consistency bro, like this video up people ❤
1st time I've ever been the 1st viewer to a video!!!
Nice! Here’s a pinned message to celebrate!
I was 1st to comment/view on a video a while ago and to be honest its a great experience
@@warking0503 it's kinda like that fuzzy feeling from your first few hearts. Pins especially to.
the last line actually gave his 3 lord of the ring
"u cant reach this fellow shit" refers to fellowship of the ring
"im too towering" refers to the two towers
and "every time i battle its return of the king" refers to the return of the king
the first one was quite hidden but its good tho
This
"You can't reach this fellow/shit" is a reference to Fellowship of the Ring, so he put a reference to all 3 parts of LotR in sequence into his last lines.
Led Zeppelin was referencing LotR in some of their songs, like 'Misty Mountain Top', 'The Battle of Evermore', 'Ramble On', and more, already 30 years before the movies.
Tolkien definitely got my respect being a WWI vet.
Aye dave! Im new to your channel but i have been going through and watching all your videos since last night your just too funny! Keep up the great work!!
To "Cut one's teeth" is a phrase for "getting started with". So he's 'cutting him' like he did his teeth on the first project he worked on?
Edit: 1987 Beauty and the Beast TV series - that appears to be one of his pre-ASOIAF projects.
Led Zeppelin have a song called Ramble on about Lord of the Rings. Also the hand shape he uses when he says you even stole my R R, is the letter r in American Sign Language.
We also get to see Martin's ancient computer - one of the reasons he writes so slowly.
On this season 5 premiere is the battle between the two different fantasy writers
the 80s tv series, he was a writer for Beauty and the beast, 3 seasons
The Led Zepplin Song "Ramble on" The have a shout out to Gollum.
Martin used to write for the Beauty and the Beast v show. Cutting your teeth is a term meaning "learning your craft, or honing it. " A lot of Led Zeppelin songs were based on Tolkien's work.
i like the looking up the bars on google so u can understand it. Dont be afraid to do it!
Also in his last line "you can't reach this fellow shit, I'm Two Towering, every time I battle its Return of the King" is every film in lotr in order 😀
Fellowship
Two Towers
Return of the King
"All your bad guys die, your good guys survive!"
Clearly, someone hasn't read the Silmarillion. The elves in there get absolutely clapped.
Or The Hobbit. Or Lord or the Rings at all.
Fili, Kili and Thorin for The Hobbit, then Ori, Balin, Boromir and Theodin King.
@@Lord_Numptyor never read the return of the king appendix.
3:17
I like how he even uses the sign language for "R" "R" just to add that little bit extra!
So glad of who you picked as the winner. If you'd picked the other one I'd have had to stop watching your stuff. lol. Just kidding. Love your reactions! ♥
Geiorge RR Martin wrote the screenplay for the 90's Beauty and the Beast mini-series, starring Ron Pearlman.
edit: Also Led Zeppelin references Lord of the Rings in the song "Ramble On" Gollum is even named in the climax of the song, "Misty Mountain Hop" references The Hobbit" the Battle of Evermore" also makes reference to books.
Martin “LARPed” as a conscientious objector on alternative duty, he served in Viet Nam, in uniform, but kept to administrative and other non combat jobs.
"Beauty and the Beast" was a reference to the fact that Martin was a writer on the Beauty and the Beast TV show back in the 80s. It had nothing to do with the Disney version.
George R.R. Martin wrote many episodes of the television series called BEAUTY AND THE BEAST.
LARP means Live Action RolePlaying.
George wrote and produced the 80's Beauty & The Beast TV show.
So the Beauty and the Beast line, George Martin wrote for a TV series called Beauty and the Beast which aired from 1987-1990
The cutting teeth joke comes from when vigo mortinson split his tooth on a sword
"You can't reach this fellow shit, I'm too Towering every time I battle its return of the King."
Fellowship
Two Towers
Return of the King.
3 references, 1 verse.
Good and close match but Tolkien won it for me simply because while George was spitting fire he didn't really dismantle much that Tolkien told him, where Tolkien had both spitting fire bars as well as dismantled and threw back a lot of the bars that George used against him.
LARP is the things clowns do instead of being in the actual military. As a Marine, I laugh at those clowns who play all those “roll playing games”. Those were fun when you were 12
Tolkien even name dropped his boy, CS Lewis (Narnia), who would also school Martin.
This is great... for me this is close, but I think it goes to Tolken 😎 please don't mind any spelling errors I make... I enjoyed this one 😊
Take care Dave and have fun with your reaction videos 😌
alternative service is like being your dads helper under the car.. if shit hits the fan you wont catch it but you can say "i was there!" basically he said he wasnt a real soldier and doesnt deserve his honor
you cant reach this fellow, shit (fellow ship of the ring) im too towering (two towers) and every time i rap its return of the king (return of the king) every time i here that line it amazes me how they were able to so seamlessly fit all 3 lord of the rings movies into such a short amount of words
The Beauty and the Beast line is just about Martin being the writer for Beauty and the Beast (1987 TV Show) NOT the Disney one. Just clarifying.
George R R Martin did a tv show in the 80’s called Beauty and the Beast. That was some of his first work.
Actually I recall hearing somewhere that Orcs (or some other fantasy race Tolkein popularized) didn't exist before he wrote it. Might have been a TIFO or Fact Fiend video or something.
George R.R. Martin's big break in writing was the scripts for a live action TV show called "Beauty and the Beast." Which had cat-like superhero and a beautiful DA.
His version of beauty and the Beast he's referring to the Ron perlman TV show in the '80s
Regarding the LARPing bar: it’s because he’s saying he role played actually fighting in Vietnam while Tolkien actually fought in WW1
from another comment, Led Zep was inspired by LoTR to create their songs and thats what the bar is to include idk one of the most prolific bands in american history
The Beauty and the Beast thing was because George wrote on an old 80's soap opera called Beauty and the Beast, I think it either was one of his first, or his actual first writing credit.
So he cut his teeth (started) on Beauty and the Beast :P
At least if I'm remembering my trivia right, please, correct me if I'm wrong.
Him: Red Wedding
Me: oooo.... too soon!
7:01 no, Led Zep wrote Stairway to Heaven. Which is based off of Tolkien's works
Actually the Led Zeppelin bar is because there are several lord of the rings references in their Led Zeppelin 3 and Led Zeppelin 4 albums. Particularly their most famous song stairway to heaven.
Both Tolkien and Martin are authors whose work was turned into a series and movies. You’d have to read a Tolkien book to understand a few of these bars. He would literally paint the setting with descriptions of every sound and color the character was around.. like a play write but books
A few other things that you missed-
Martin was a writer on the Beauty and the Beast live action TV show, which was about a young man who had facial features that made him resemble a lion, so he, his father, and a small group of outcast people created a literal underground commune in the sewers below NYC, and their adventures with the surface dwellers and especially Beast's (named Vincent) girlfriend, one of Manhattan's Assistant DAs.
The last lines for Tolkien referenced all three movies/books "Fellow - shit ... Too Towering. .... Return of the King."
"Larp ing thru Vietnam" is especially ferocious, since a conscientious objector must still serve in uniform, but can fill desk jobs and other non combat rolls far from the front lines. So in other words, Martin got to dress up and play soldier, while Tolkien barely survived the muck and the horrors of the trenches.
When Tolkien first pops up, it was him walking around invisible and then taking off the Ring.
While Tolkien is calling Martin out, He Martin is reading from a big red leather looking bound portfolio book...the Red Book of the West March.
When Martin is talking about boobies, he had one of the Goonies (Sean Astin/Sam Gamgee first role as a child actor).
Tolkien for the win.
I'm biased, but I think
Did you miss the ASL sign for R and Tolkien moving his hand twice to show R R.
0:09 Dave goes full Undertaker.
Led Zeppelin and pretty much every Power Metal band that ever existed did at least one song paying homage to J.R.R. Tolkien. Even Sabaton did a song called "Shadows" on their Metalizer album about the Ring Wraiths in LotR.
fun fact for mr jesse, the game of fire and ice aka game of thrones ius HEAVILY influenced by the War of the Roses, (The best rose the red rose won) it was red rose (heros) vs white rose (scum) and anyway the Red wedding is based on somethign that actually happened the Black dinner
G.R.R. Martin was a writer for the TV series Beauty and the Beast. And he was a conscientious objector during the Vietnam war, while Tolkien served as a British officer in WW1.
Led Zepplin wrote songs about Tolkien's Middle Earth back in the seventies.
Actually, "you can't reach this fellow, shit ( fellowship), i am too towering, "
Grrm was one of the script writers for beauty and the beast
The cut my teeth line .. George RR Martin wrote the TV series beauty and the beast .
Okay, I'm late to the comments, but it looks like nobody noticed that the *first word* was a reference. "Brace yourself"… "braces" is the English term for what Americans call "suspenders", and George R. R. Martin is known for always wearing them, like he is in this vid.
The Led Zepplin bar is a reference to the fact that the band loved Tolkien, and it inspired their music
"You can't reach this Fellow, shit I'm Too Towering..." a lot of folks miss the "Fellowship"/"Fellow, shit" double
George wrote for the Beauty and the Beast TV series.
A LOT of heavy and dark metal bands, if you read the lyrics are very much rooted in fantasy. Many many huge metal bands are big fans and take inspiration from Tolkien's world.
Led Zeppelin actually included references to the Lord of the Rings in some of their songs because they’re fans.
Just hearing the words “red wedding” still hurts my soul
Forgive me if someone already said this bot the Led Zeppelin reference is about how several of their songs were directly influenced by Tolkien’s work.
Actually Tolkien had a great impact and was an inspiration for many Led zeppelin songs already from the time they were an unknown band
Led Zeppelin made a song about the lord of the rings/hobbit back in the 80s I believe
"I'll cut you like my teeth" Means to get experience on something, referring to the fact he started getting popular for writing Beauty and the Beast on tv.
J. R. R. Tolkien ate George's lunch, one of the top 5 lopsided wins at no point was this close.
He technically hit all three titles - Can't reach this fellow- fellowship of the rings, plus the other two. He slayed.
Idk the name of the song but led zeppelin referenced Gollem in one of their songs
You really need to do Christopher Columbus vs Captain Kirk
'cutting your teeth'
Get one's first experience by doing, or learn early in life, as in I cut my teeth on this kind of layout or He cut his eyeteeth on magazine editing. This term alludes to the literal verb to cut teeth, meaning “to have teeth first emerge through a baby's gums,” a usage dating from the late 1600s.
nice ^^
George RR Martin shaking that belllaaaayyy! 🤣🤣🤣
J.R.R.Tolken is the architect of modern high fantasy
You should do a reaction to Moses vs Santa Claus.